[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 41, Number 43 (Monday, October 31, 2005)]
[Pages 1577-1582]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
 Interview With Al Arabiya

 October 24, 2005

 Mehlis Report on Lebanese Assassination

     Q.  Mr. President, thank you very much for this interview. I much 
appreciate it.
     The President.  Thank you.
     Q.  Let me start after the--Mehlis report. You described the report 
as deeply disturbing. Does the United States, your administration, 
support imposing sanctions on Syria?
     The President.  Here's what we support. We support that the world 
take this report very seriously, that there were some very strong 
implications in the report, that it be fully aired, and that the United 
Nations start to take action. Tomorrow there's a meeting of the perm 
reps, permanent representatives, and I've instructed Secretary Rice to 
call upon the United Nations to host a foreign ministers meeting as 
quickly as possible.

 Syria

     Q.  Are we heading into a confrontation with Syria?
     The President.  I certainly hope not. I mean, I think one of the 
things that Syria has learned is that noncompliance with international 
demands will yield to isolation. Fifteen fifty-nine was a very serious 
statement by the free world and the United Nations to say to Syria, 
``Get out of Lebanon. Leave Lebanon alone. Let the Lebanon democracy 
flourish and function.'' She saw--she, being Syria--saw that the world 
spoke in voice, one voice.
     And nobody wants there to be a confrontation. On the other hand, 
there must be serious pressure applied so that the leader understands 
that, one, they can't house terrorist groups that will destroy the peace 
process with Israel and Palestine, for example; two, they should stop 
meddling in Lebanon; three, that they should stop allowing transit

[[Page 1578]]

of bombers and killers into Iraq that are killing people that want there 
to be a democracy. In other words, there are some clear demands by the 
world. And this Mehlis report, as I say, had serious implications for 
Syria, and the Syrian Government must take the demands of the free world 
very seriously.

 France/Diplomacy

     Q.  The French--as you know, the French Prime Minister wants to 
introduce a resolution for Syria to cooperate with the investigation. 
Would you support that?
     The President.  The French foreign minister----
     Q.  They want to introduce a resolution in the United Nations, in 
the Security Council, basically calling on Syria to cooperate further in 
the investigation into the killing----
     The President.  Oh, I see. Sure. Well, listen, we're working very 
closely with the French. We did on 1559, and there was a clear message 
as a result of the cooperation between the U.S. Government, the French, 
and many other governments, and Condi Rice, who I spoke to today, is 
still in consultations with the French to make sure we have a common 
message.
     Q.  I know you said before that you're focusing on diplomatic 
options, but the military one is still on the table. Would you resort to 
that?
     The President.  Well, listen, nobody wants to use the military. A 
military is always the last choice of a President. I understand the use 
of military, and I know how hard it can be. And I'm--any time anybody 
loses their life in our military, I weep for the families. And I know 
innocent people can sometimes be in harm's way, so the military is 
always the last option. And this is a chance for the world to work 
together to achieve a diplomatic solution.
     And our diplomats, starting with Secretary Rice, are working very 
hard to come up with a common position to make it clear to Syria that 
there are clear and understandable demands. And I've just listed some of 
them earlier. Listen, as you know, you and I have worked together, and 
you've seen the emergence of a potential Palestinian state that I 
strongly embrace, but we must not allow terrorists to operate out of 
Syria. That would derail the peace process. It's not fair to the people 
of Gaza. It's not fair to the people of the West Bank. And so that is 
one clear demand, that Syria must shut down these camps and not allow 
terrorists groups to have safe haven in Syria.
     We want the Lebanese democracy to flourish. And so Syria should not 
be--should no longer be involved in Lebanon. They removed their troops, 
like was told to them in 1559, but it also was clear it said, ``Get rid 
of all your intelligence services and your operations out of there.'' 
And the Mehlis report implicates Syria's involvement in the death of Mr. 
Hariri, who was a fine man.
     And of course, one of the concerns I have and that other countries 
have as well is Syria becoming a transit place for these killers that 
are going into Iraq and killing Muslims, killing innocent women and 
children. And it's just--they got to understand there is a--there's a 
worldwide concern about their failure to act.
     Q.  If they don't cooperate, what would you do?
     The President.  Well, I'm hoping that they will. They did on 1559 
in terms of getting their troops out. In other words, there's a 
diplomatic--you're trying to get me to say something--I'm going to use 
our military. It is the last, very last option. And no Commander in 
Chief likes to commit the military, and I don't. But on the other hand, 
you know--and I've worked hard for diplomacy and will continue to work 
the diplomatic angle on this issue.
     Q.  We've seen similar models before. Some people talk about the 
Libyan model, i.e. sanction, long term, and then the Libyans will hand 
over the suspects--or the Iraqi one----
     The President.  Well, I think each country is different. Saddam 
Hussein had, gosh, a lot of resolutions out of the United Nations. Year 
after year after year after year, the United Nations said, ``Do this,'' 
and he never complied. And so it's--he was--diplomacy wasn't working. 
And my attitude is, let's give diplomacy a chance to work. Obviously, 
we'd like to resolve any issue in a peaceful way. And that's the main 
goal of the United States.

[[Page 1579]]

 China and Russia

     Q.  Obviously, you have the French and the British on board, but 
what about the Chinese and the Russians? Who will support--will you get 
their support?
     The President.  Well, that's an interesting question. I think it's 
too early to tell. I certainly hope that people take a good look at the 
Mehlis report. Mr. Mehlis did a very thorough job, and it speaks--
there's clear implications about Syrian's involvement in the death of a 
foreign leader. And the United States was willing to help, work with 
other countries, and we will, to make sure that out of the United 
Nations comes a clear message.

 Possible Trial in an International Court

     Q.  As you know, Saad Hariri, who's the son of the slain 
President--Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, is asking for an international 
court. Would the United States support the trial in an international 
court for the suspects?
     The President.  Well, we want people to be held to account. And I'd 
be glad to talk to other leaders to determine whether or not that's the 
best course of action. But certainly, people do need to be held to 
account. And the first course of action is to go the United Nations.
     Q.  But further, would you----
     The President.  Well, we'll have to see.
     Q.  ----support that or not?
     The President.  We'll have to see.

 Trial of Saddam Hussein

     Q.  If we move to Iraq.
     The President.  Sure.
     Q.  I would like to know, how would you evaluate the performance of 
Saddam Hussein during the trial? Do you think he's weakened? He's still 
defiant?
     The President.  That's hard for me to tell. The key thing is that 
there will be a fair trial, which is something he didn't give many of 
the thousand people he killed. It's--there's going to be a lot of 
international scrutiny. There will be a lot of press coverage. People 
are going to be watching very carefully. And what matters is the fact 
that he will be brought to trial in a fair way.
     Q.  And do you think that, eventually, the situation is safe enough 
for this court to take place? Is Baghdad safe enough for Saddam to be 
tried there?
     The President.  I think it is, yes, I do. I mean, listen, it's safe 
enough to have an election nationwide, where these killers were saying, 
``We'll kill you if you vote,'' and a lot of people went and voted. In 
other words, it's possible to provide security. But I think the trial 
needs to go forward.
     Q.  But you know, Mr. President, one of the defense lawyers was 
killed----
     The President.  Oh, I know. It's just terrible.
     Q.  So how can you make sure it's fair trial----
     The President.  No, I understand. Well, there will be a fair trial. 
The question is whether or not there's the courage to go ahead with the 
trial. And I think the people of Iraq would like to see Saddam Hussein 
tried for the crimes he committed.
     Q.  Would you support again an international trial for him?
     The President.  No, I didn't. I didn't at all. I think it's very 
important for the Iraqis to have a justice system that earns the 
confidence of the people. This is a new democracy, and part of a 
democracy is to have a fair judicial system. And I thought it was very 
important for the Iraqi--citizens of Iraq to conduct the trial in such a 
way that it earned international respect.

 Iraqi Elections/Constitution

     Q.  You had started talks with the Sunni opposition parties. What 
happened to that? Where--are you advancing in the talks with them?
     The President.  With the Sunnis?
     Q.  Yes.
     The President.  Well, first of all, the United States of America 
will not try to pick a winner in the upcoming election. We talked--our 
Ambassador Zal Khalilzad was involved with trying to help the parties 
come together and make a deal on the constitution, to get people's 
participation and get people involved with the--show that the process 
can work through discussion and compromise.
     And when it comes to the elections, upcoming elections, should the 
constitution get passed--and it looks like it might--there will be an 
election for a permanent government.

[[Page 1580]]

 The United States will not pick a winner. That's going to be up to the 
Iraqi people. Our mission will be to encourage all people to participate 
in the process.
     It's been amazing, what's happened in Iraq, when you really think 
about it. Millions of people voted last January. Nobody--a lot of people 
didn't think that would happen. And then this new constitution was 
written. You know, it's a document that is--it caused a lot of debate, 
and people showed anxieties or supported part of it, but it's a document 
that can be changed with a democratically elected government, just like 
what happened to our Constitution. I mean, the United States 
Constitution created a lot of anxiety when it was first passed, and then 
it was amended right off the bat. But I'm very--I've got to tell you, I 
am impressed by the courage of the Iraqi citizens and pleased with the 
progress.

 Iraqi Security Situation

     Q.  Are you satisfied with the security situation? It's pretty 
dismal there.
     The President.  Well, it's tough, but the security--no question. 
And the enemy, these killers, have got one weapon, and that is to get on 
TV by killing innocent people. And it's a powerful weapon; don't get me 
wrong. And what they're trying to do is shake our will. They would like 
us to leave. They would like to take advantage of a weak situation, so 
they can begin to spread their dark vision of how they ought to--want to 
rule countries and regions. They have hijacked a great religion. Islam 
is peace. It's not war. It's not killing innocent children and innocent 
women.
     And these--Zawahiri, as you know, there was a letter to Zarqawi 
that came out, and it talked about his vision of driving America out of 
parts of the world and overthrowing governments to be able to implement 
their vision of a society in which women don't have rights or a society 
in which you can't worship freely. And it's a society in which they can 
plan attacks on other people. And they've got one weapon. They don't 
have a philosophy. People don't say, ``Gosh, I want to follow them 
because there's such a better tomorrow.'' And the only weapon they've 
got is to kill innocent people, and they're trying to shake our will.
     And there's no question the images are terrible. Americans weep 
when they hear about the loss of life like that. On the other hand, the 
security situation is improving. When you look at the fact that they 
just had an election, and that--we can't stop random acts of violence, 
but the Iraqi security forces are better prepared to defend themselves. 
And over time, they'll become even better. And as I told the American 
people, as the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down. And we're headed in 
that direction right now.

 Upcoming Palestinian Election/Hamas

     Q.  I have to go quickly to the Palestinian situation. First, Abu 
Mazen visit. I know this one is supposed to be primarily about the 
Palestinians. But would you support the outcome of the results--as you 
know, you discussed this with Abu Mazen--of the election, the 
Palestinian election in January, if Hamas wins, regardless?
     The President.  Well, you know, I told him that it's very difficult 
to have a--first of all, it depends upon whether there was armed 
citizens. I mean, you can't have a political party that's, on the one 
hand, based on philosophy, on the other hand, based upon violence and 
use of force through arms. He understands that.
     Let me step back if I could. I was impressed by my visit with 
President Abbas. He's a courageous man. He told me some things that were 
very strong in terms of the development of democracy, which I 
appreciate, because, as you know, I've articulated the vision of a 
Palestinian state, a democracy, living side by side with Israel. And I 
think it can happen. And I know, first and foremost, it takes strong 
leadership.
     And President Abbas showed me something in the Oval Office, which 
is, one, a deep desire to defeat terror and promote democracy. And he 
understands, as he said, that we can't have armed gangs, whether they be 
in a political party or not. They're destabilizing the situation, and so 
he's had, one authority, one law, one gun policy. And I believe he means 
it.
     Q.  Right. So you would like him to disarm the Hamas and Jihad 
before the election?
     The President.  Well, as he said, what he's going to do is to make 
sure there's no armed

[[Page 1581]]

presence on the streets, and I would like for him to follow through on 
that. I believe that his party will win because his party is one of 
peace, and I think most people want peace.
     One of the interesting things is, in this campaign, is that he will 
be able to say, ``I worked with Israel to get Israelis out of Gaza.'' 
Now, had you and I been discussing this a year-and-a-half ago, because I 
know this is an issue very dear to your heart, and I would have said, 
``The settlements will be dismantled, and Israel will be out of Gaza,'' 
you would have looked at me and said, ``I don't think you know what 
you're talking about, Mr. President.'' And sure enough, it happened. 
Prime Minister Sharon gets a lot of credit for that, as does President 
Abbas.
     Very few people thought it could--this--there could be enough 
cooperation for the withdrawal to be peaceful. Both men had to deal with 
difficult political situations as a result of the decision. And now we 
need to move forward, and the United States wants to help. And we want 
to help--you asked me if--if people get elected, they're going to use 
violence as a tool, there won't be our help. We just won't be involved. 
If people get elected who say, ``We want to advance peace and prosperity 
of the Palestinian people,'' we'll be involved.

 Timetable for Peace/Palestinian People

     Q.  Finally, very final question.
     The President.  No, you can keep going.
     Q.  Thank you. When we talk about the Palestinian state, I know you 
are the first President--you heard this many times before--you are the 
first President to call for a Palestinian state. You don't like 
timetables. Why--can you clarify what you say the other day--why don't 
you want to push the parties towards a final status negotiation, and 
say, ``By this date, we're working towards it''?
     The President.  Absolutely. I said--I appreciate--thank you for 
giving me the chance to clarify a statement. Look, I said I would like 
this to happen before I end being President, and I would. And we are 
going to push. I mean, one of the reasons--well, Condi and I talk about 
this all the time, Condi Rice and I, about how we'd very much like to 
see a Palestinian democracy achieve its status as a state. I'd love that 
if I were the President. I think it would be a great historic 
achievement for everybody involved. And so I did put out a firm date, 
and I'm going to work hard for that date.
     On the other hand, you don't want an American President making 
decisions for other people based upon his own political calendar or his 
own time in office, is what I really meant to say. I don't think it's 
fair. And this is going to be a process, as you know, that will be two 
steps forward and one step back and two steps forward. And the United 
States is fully committed to the roadmap, we're fully committed to 
helping going forward, and we're fully committed to practical things on 
the ground.
     You know, I had General Ward in the other day. And as I told you at 
the press conference, we're going to replace General Ward soon, and I 
meant that. There needs to be continued help of--to help President Abbas 
be able to deal with the security situation. One authority, one law, one 
gun--in order to have one authority, one law, one gun, you got to have--
got to reform forces that are able to respond.
     Secondly, I talk to Jim Wolfensohn a lot. Now, there's a practical 
man. And the greenhouse is a good example of practical application of 
U.S. desire to help get the economy going.
     Look, I fully understand the Rafah crossing needs to be opened, and 
I think it will be sooner rather than later, and we're pushing hard. But 
there's other crossings that need to happen. There needs to--in order 
for the Palestinian economy to grow, there needs to be--there needs to 
be crossings in--yes, in northern Gaza, in Israel, so people can go and 
work and come back and bring enterprise. Israeli capital needs to take a 
look at enterprise zones within the Gaza so that there's a chance for 
people to find work. Foreign capital needs to be encouraged to go into 
Gaza so that the--so that good Palestinians can work.
     Let me tell you something about what I know. First of all, I've 
been very impressed by the caliber of the Palestinians I've met, and 
I've met quite a few. They're very smart, very well educated, and very 
entrepreneurial. The Palestinians are good businesspeople.

[[Page 1582]]

 And they want to be free. And they're peaceful; they really are 
peaceful. And they have a chance to--and I've told this to Abu Mazen; I 
said, ``You've got a fantastic population. Let's--now is your chance to 
lead them.''
     As you know, I welcomed some of his young team.
     Q.  I know about that meeting.
     The President.  Yes, we had the chief of staff, and his 
spokesperson is a lovely lady who is a very well-educated person, went 
back to the--to Palestine to try to serve what she hopes will be a 
country. I was impressed by these young, dynamic, capable, peace-loving 
people.
     And so I think we've got a very good chance to succeed. I want it 
to happen before I'm President, but it's not about me. That's my point. 
It's about the Palestinians, and it's about the Israelis, all of whom 
want to--many of whom want to get rid of the past and have a more 
glorious future by living side by side in peace and democracy. And 
it's--I think it's going to happen.
     Q.  I hope so. Thank you very much, sir.
     The President.  Thanks.
     Q.  Thank you for your time. Thank you. Wonderful.
     The President.  Very good interview.
     Q.  Well, one day I'm going to run as the mayor of Gaza, so 
probably I need your help. [Laughter]
     The President.  Absolutely. After I'm President, I'll go help you. 
[Laughter]

  Note:  The interview was taped at 3:39 p.m. in the Library at the 
White House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred 
to President Bashar al-Asad of Syria; Minister of Foreign Affairs 
Philippe Douste-Blazy of France; former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri of 
Lebanon, who was assassinated on February 14 in Beruit; Detlev Mehlis, 
head, United Nations International Independent Investigation Commission 
into the assassination of former Prime Minister Hariri; former President 
Saddam Hussein of Iraq; U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad; Ayman 
Al-Zawahiri, founder of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and senior Al Qaida 
associate; senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi; President 
Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the Palestinian Authority, and his chief of 
staff, Rafiq Husseini; Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel; Lt. Gen. 
William E. ``Kip'' Ward, USA, Senior U.S. Security Coordinator, 
Department of State; and James D. Wolfensohn, Quartet Special Envoy for 
Gaza Disengagement. A tape was not available for verification of the 
content of this interview.