[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 41, Number 32 (Monday, August 15, 2005)]
[Pages 1278-1282]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
Interview With Israeli Television Channel 1 in Crawford, Texas

August 11, 2005

    Yaron Deckel. Mr. President, thank you very much for the first 
interview granted to Israeli TV and for hosting us in your beautiful 
ranch in Texas.
    The President. Well, welcome. Thanks for coming. It's an honor to 
have you here, and it's an honor to speak on Israeli TV.

Prime Minister Sharon/Disengagement

    Mr. Deckel. I understand why you like this place better than the 
White House.
    We are on the eve of the disengagement, and you have expressed your 
full support in disengagement, trying to help Prime Minister Sharon in 
his struggle. And I would like to ask why is it so important to you, Mr. 
President?
    The President. First of all, let me speak about my relationship with 
Prime Minister Sharon, if you don't mind. We've grown close, and one of 
the reasons why is I appreciate a person who when he says something, 
means it. And I hope he appreciates that about me. In other words, I 
said early on, we're going to join in fighting terror so that Israel 
could be secure and America secure and other free nations secure.
    Secondly--and I have--and he knows I keep my word, and I know he 
keeps his word. Secondly, what I appreciate is somebody who thinks 
boldly for peace. And Ariel Sharon came to the White House and said, 
``We're going to disengage from the Gaza.'' And I was struck by what a 
bold decision that was. And the disengagement is, I think, a part of 
making Israel more secure and peaceful, and I agree with the Prime 
Minister.
    It's important because the United States is a strong ally of Israel 
and, therefore, if you're a strong ally, you want there to be peace for 
your ally.
    Mr. Deckel. You know, the main concern of Israel is that the 
disengagement might lead not to more security but, on the contrary, to 
more violence. Do you understand the concerns?
    The President. Oh, absolutely, I understand. And I can understand 
why people think this decision is one that will create a vacuum into 
which terrorism will flow. I happen to disagree. I think this will 
create an opportunity for democracy to emerge, and democracies are 
peaceful. And therefore, it's very important for the United States, as 
an active participant in this process, to encourage the formation of 
security forces that will defeat terror, just like the roadmap calls 
for--these are Palestinian security forces--and to encourage the 
Palestinians to develop a peaceful state.

The Negev and Galilee

    Mr. Deckel. You had announced that you will support the 
disengagement by some aid the administration will provide Israel to 
develop the northern and southern--the Galilee and the Negev.
    The President. Right.
    Mr. Deckel. Has any decision been made regarding this issue?
    The President. Well, first of all, I did say when the Prime Minister 
was here that the Negev and Galilee present great opportunities for 
economic development. And we understand that. So I'm going to send teams 
over to assess the opportunities available for the United States to help 
Israel, and they'll report back to me. But we have made no focus yet on 
specific budget items.

Likud Party/Binyamin Netanyahu

    Mr. Deckel. Mr. President, are you troubled by the fierce opposition 
Prime Minister Sharon, your partner, is facing in his own camp, in the 
Likud Party? According to the

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polls, he might lose because of the disengagement.
    The President. First of all, on democracy there's going to be 
dissent. And secondly, the Prime Minister has made a very strong, bold 
decision. And I can understand why people are debating the issue. But 
I'm confident he's made the right decision. And I can also assure the 
Israeli people the decision he made has brought the United States and 
Israel even closer together.
    Mr. Deckel. Have you any opinion about Mr. Netanyahu, who stands to 
succeed him and now is leading the opposition?
    The President. Well, I met Bibi Netanyahu. Of course, he's well 
known in the United States. He's going to make the decision he thinks is 
necessary for Israel's good, and there's just a disagreement between two 
friends. But I believe the decision that Prime Minister Sharon has made 
and is going to follow through on will be good for Israel.
    Mr. Deckel. And why are you so sure it's going to lead to more 
security?
    The President. Well, it's an opportunity--first of all, the previous 
system wasn't working. I mean, there was an intifada; there was death; 
there was killing. And if you notice, there's been a calm in attacks. 
One attack is too many, but there's been fewer attacks. And I think in 
the long run, two states living side by side in peace is the ultimate 
solution for Israeli's security.
    In the meantime, we've got to work to dismantle terrorist 
organizations, and that's precisely what the roadmap calls for.

President Abbas

    Mr. Deckel. How urgent is it that Mr. Abbas take more actions 
against terrorism? How urgent is it? Because you said that it's not 
enough, what they have done so far.
    The President. Well, I think--and I've told that to the Prime 
Minister Abbas--or President Abbas. He's a strong--he strongly 
understands the need to dismantle terrorists. He knows that a democracy 
can't exist so long as you've got armed groups willing to take law in 
their own hands, and he's committed to a democratic state. And we've got 
work to do with him, and that's why we've got a general on the ground 
there that's helping to try train and coordinate Palestinian forces to 
fight off the terrorists who would want to stop the process for peace.

Hamas

    Mr. Deckel. But would you accept a permanent ceasefire with the 
Hamas movement, for instance?
    The President. Well, you know, Hamas is on the terrorist group.
    Mr. Deckel. He made a ceasefire with them.
    The President. Well, he's elected by the Palestinians. I am not. On 
the other hand, I can express my opinions to him, which I have. And I 
don't believe you can have a peaceful, democratic state with armed 
groups willing to take the law in their own hands.
    Mr. Deckel. As a believer, Mr. President, what do you say to Jewish 
believers who think that God sent them to settle in the biblical Israel, 
and they will not obey any decision of elected government?
    The President. Well, you know, there are admonitions in the Bible 
that does talk about the role of government relative to man. And Israel 
is a democracy, and democracies are able to express the will of the 
people. The Prime Minister is expressing what he thinks is in the best 
interests of Israel, and the people will decide, ultimately, whether or 
not that decision makes sense.
    Mr. Deckel. You know, things in the Middle East constantly change. 
And nobody predicted the U.S. will start dialog with the PLO in the 
eighties, and then Prime Minister--late Prime Minister Rabin signing an 
accord with Yasser Arafat. Do you see any similar development with the 
Hamas in the future?
    The President. Here's what I see. I see relations with a peaceful 
Palestinian state that is run by--that is founded on democratic 
institutions. That's what I believe can happen and should happen. I 
mean, in order to ultimately defeat terror, whether it be in Palestinian 
territories or Iraq or Iran, there must be open, transparent societies 
based upon rule of law.

Palestinian Control of Gaza

    Mr. Deckel. Your timeframe was a Palestinian state in 2005. Would 
you like to update the timeframe, Mr. President?

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    The President. I think Israel--the people of Israel must understand 
that now is an opportunity for the Palestinians to show leadership and 
self-government in Gaza. And that's why my focus is intensely upon Gaza. 
We hope that the disengagement goes well. And we understand that once 
Israel has withdrawn, it's now up to the Palestinians to show the world 
that they can self-govern in a peaceful way.
    Mr. Deckel. You said that once the disengagement is carried out, 
both sides will help together to the roadmap to meet their obligations. 
And Prime Minister Sharon vowed that there will be no political progress 
until the Palestinians will act forcefully against terrorism. Do you 
share this view with him?
    The President. Here's the way I view it. One, I think that the 
roadmap does call for dismantling terrorist organizations. And secondly, 
I think--I know that the disengagement from Gaza presents an opportunity 
for a Palestinian state which is peaceful to begin to grow. In other 
words, it goes to show that--that there's a chance to show the Israelis 
and the Palestinians that there's a better life ahead. And in order to 
do that in Gaza--in Gaza----

Obligations of Middle East Participants

    Mr. Deckel. So the burden is upon the Palestinians once the 
disengagement is over?
    The President. I think the burden is on--everybody has got 
obligations. You know, obviously, the peaceful withdrawal by Israelis 
from the Gaza is part of the burden. The terrorists--dismantling 
terrorist organizations is part of the burden. I think the----
    Mr. Deckel. Should it be the first--the first step before anything 
other happens?
    The President. Gaza?
    Mr. Deckel. The dismantling of the terrorist organizations?
    The President. Well, I think that's a part of a process. You see, 
dismantling a terrorist organization is not only taking arms and 
isolating terrorists, but it's also showing the Palestinians and the 
Israelis that a peaceful state can emerge. This is what the opportunity 
is. And that's why I think that Prime Minister Sharon's decision was so 
bold.
    But we have a--let me finish the obligations. Israelis have 
obligations. The Palestinians have obligations. The United States has an 
obligation. That's why Mr. Wolfensohn and our general on the ground is 
there, to help establish the institutions necessary for a peaceful state 
to emerge. Arab nations have got obligations now: One, to not incite 
violence; Two, to help isolate and bring to justice terrorists; and 
Three, to provide funds to help these--the Gaza to become a place of 
prosperity and peace.

Iran

    Mr. Deckel. You mentioned Iran, and I wonder, Mr. President, how 
imminently is the Iranian threat? There was a release lately of the U.S. 
intelligence that they won't have any capability in the next 10 years. 
Is this your latest information, Mr. President?
    The President. My latest information is that the Iranians refuse to 
comply with the demands of the free world, which is: Do not in any way, 
shape, or form have a program that could yield to a nuclear weapon. And 
the United States and Israel are united in our objective to make sure 
that Iran does not have a weapon. And in this particular instance, the 
EU-3, Britain, France, and Germany, have taken the lead, been helping to 
send the message, a unified message to the Iranians.
    Look, in all these instances we want diplomacy to work. And so we're 
working feverishly on the diplomatic route. And you know, we'll see if 
we're successful or not. As you know, I'm----
    Mr. Deckel. And if not?
    The President. Well, all options are on the table.
    Mr. Deckel. Including use of force?
    The President. Well, you know, as I say, all options are on the 
table. The use of force is the last option for any President. You know, 
we've used force in the recent past to secure our country. It's a 
difficult--it's difficult for the Commander in Chief to put kids in 
harm's way. Nevertheless, I have been willing to do so as a last resort 
in order to

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secure the country and to provide the opportunity for people to live in 
free societies.

Iraq

    Mr. Deckel. I won't be finishing this interview without asking you 
about your decision in Iraq. Knowing what you know today, you made the 
right decision, Mr. President?
    The President. Yes. I did. The world is safer without Saddam Hussein 
in power.
    Mr. Deckel. Is it?
    The President. Yes. Absolutely. Saddam Hussein--you know, we made 
the decision on a lot of factors. One factor, of course, is that the 
world thought he had weapons of mass destruction, not just the United 
States but the entire world. I went to the United Nations. The United 
Nations unanimously passed a resolution that said to Saddam Hussein, 
``Disarm, or face serious consequences.'' Once again, he defied the 
world.
    But we also made the case that Saddam Hussein had terrorist ties. 
Abu Nidal was in Iraq. Zarqawi, the man who's inflicting so much murder 
and chaos on innocent Iraqis, was in Iraq. Saddam Hussein was an enemy 
of the United States, enemy of a lot of countries. And there's no doubt 
in my mind that we're safer as a result of him not being in power. And 
there's no doubt in my mind that a democratic Iraq will be a part of a 
change in the broader Middle East that will lay the foundations for 
peace.
    You know, a lot of the world says, ``Well, unless you are a certain 
type of person, you can't live in a free society.'' I strongly disagree 
with that. I believe that embedded into everybody's soul is the desire 
to live in freedom. That's what I believe, that there is an Almighty, 
and the Almighty plants a sense of being free. Therefore, if given a 
chance, people will live in a free society, and free societies are 
peaceful societies.

President's Visit to Israel

    Mr. Deckel. Any plans to visit in the state of Israel? I know you 
were there as a Governor of Texas.
    The President. I was. [Laughter]
    Mr. Deckel. What mostly impressed you in the Holy Land?
    The President. Well, first of all, I'll never forget waking up in 
the hotel and seeing this golden shine on the Old City. It was just--and 
I remember waking up Laura. I said, ``Laura, you're not going to 
believe--you're not going to believe this fantastic sight.''
    The other thing, of course, that sticks in my mind was the 
helicopter tour I took of the West Bank, and my guide was Ariel Sharon. 
It was one of the great ironies of all time. I was a Governor; he was in 
the Cabinet. And he said, ``Would you like to take a helicopter ride?'' 
to me. Governor Cellucci, who went on to be the Ambassador to Canada, 
and Governor Leavitt, who is now in my Cabinet, and Governor Racicot, 
the four of us, we said, ``Sure,'' and we got in the chopper, and the 
tour guide was Ariel Sharon as we choppered all throughout the West 
Bank.
    Mr. Deckel. Will you visit again?
    The President. I'd love to visit again sometime.
    Mr. Deckel. In your term?
    The President. I hope so. And I hope to visit and proclaim success 
as a result of a bold decision that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has 
made, and I think I'll be able to do that.
    Mr. Deckel. Mr. President, I do thank you very much for this 
interview and for your time.
    The President. Thanks for coming.

Note: The interview was taped at 7:17 a.m. at the Bush Ranch for later 
broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to Prime Minister 
Ariel Sharon of Israel; President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the 
Palestinian Authority; James D. Wolfensohn, Quartet Special Envoy for 
Gaza Disengagement; Lt. Gen. William E. Ward, USA, Senior U.S. Security 
Coordinator, Department of State; former President Saddam Hussein of 
Iraq; Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal, who was found dead in Baghdad, 
Iraq, on August 19, 2002; and senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al 
Zarqawi. The transcript was released by the Office of the Press 
Secretary on August 12. A tape was not available for verification of the 
content of this interview.

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