[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 41, Number 10 (Monday, March 14, 2005)]
[Pages 415-422]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
Remarks in a Discussion on Strengthening Social Security in Memphis, 
Tennessee

March 11, 2005

    The President. Gosh, thanks for the warm welcome. It's great to be 
here in Memphis, Tennessee. What a fabulous city you've got. One of our 
panelists here was saying that he got up at 4:30 a.m. this morning, 
trying to prepare some remarks for today, some interesting thoughts 
about Social Security. And I said, ``I'm glad it wasn't you I heard at 
4:30.'' Evidently there's a basketball tournament here? [Laughter] Some 
of the victorious fans were pleased with the results yesterday.
    But I'm honored to be here. Memphis is a fabulous place. I wish 
Laura were with me today. She's doing great, by the way. She's obviously 
a patient woman to be married to me. [Laughter] She's a wonderful mom, a 
fantastic wife, and she's doing a whale of a job as our country's First 
Lady, and I'm really proud of her.
    We're here to talk about Social Security. And I've got some other 
things on my mind I want to share with you. But before we talk about 
anything, I do want to thank Congressman Harold Ford for being here. I'm 
honored you're here, Congressman. I appreciate your service to this 
great city. Just about every time I see him, he says to me, ``You need 
to get over to Memphis. We've got a great town full of fantastic 
people.'' Congressman, I'm honored you're here.
    Mayor A.C. Wharton, thank you for being here. I appreciate you 
coming. Thank you, sir. Got a lot of friends--I see the sheriff; he's 
here. It's always important to say hello to the high sheriff.
    Bishop G.E. Patterson is here. I'm honored you're here, Bishop 
Patterson. Thank you for coming. I want to thank a lot of the other 
friends of mine in the clergy who are here. You know, when we talk about 
the role of religion in society, it's always important to emphasize that 
one of the things that makes us great is that we separate the church and 
the state, that you're equally American if you choose to worship or not 
worship. You're equally American if you're a Christian, Jew, Muslim, or 
Sikh, whatever you choose to do.
    But one of the things I think is important is to include faith-based 
programs in the healing of hearts so that America can be a hopeful 
place. I do not fear the influence of faith in our society. I welcome 
faith.
    And over the next 4 years, we'll continue to work with the generals 
and colonels and sergeants and privates in the army of compassion to 
help change our country one heart and one soul at a time. If you want to 
serve America, feed the hungry, find shelter for the homeless. If you 
want to do something patriotic, mentor a child and teach him or her how 
to read. If you want to make America a better place, put your arm around 
somebody hurt--who hurts and says, ``I love you,

[[Page 416]]

brother,'' or, ``I love you, sister, and I'm here to help you.'' No, 
America's great strength is the hearts and soul of our citizens. And we 
must continue to rally that great strength to make America a better 
place.
    I do want to talk a little bit about foreign policy. For the 
youngsters here, I hope you pay attention to what you're seeing. What 
you're seeing is an amazing moment in the history of freedom. Because we 
acted to defend ourselves, we liberated Afghanistan from the Taliban. 
And millions of people voted in a Presidential election.
    I met with one of the ministers, a female minister from Afghanistan 
the other day. She came into the Oval Office. She said she was looking 
forward to this moment to see me and Laura so that she could share with 
me her great gratitude about the fact that she could live in a free 
society. And I said to her, ``I'm going to be traveling the country, and 
I'm going to share your thanks with the American people.'' So on behalf 
of this minister, this woman serving in the Cabinet, this person who 
loves freedom, this person who has a chance to realize her dreams, she 
says thanks--thanks to the millions who now live in a free society.
    I believe there will be a Palestinian democracy living side by side 
with Israel in peace. I believe that the actions taken by millions of 
Iraqi citizens in the face of incredible terrorist threats sent a clear 
signal to people around the world, that freedom is a beautiful thing. 
The reason I bring this up is I want everybody to understand that we'll 
defend our security. We'll utilize our great military and our 
intelligence-gathering capabilities to defend our country. We're united 
in the United States--with the United States Congress in this objective. 
All of us in Washington understand that we have a solemn duty to protect 
our country. But in the long run, the way to defeat the ideologs of hate 
is to spread freedom and democracy. Freedom is moving around the world. 
Deep in everybody's soul is the great desire to live in freedom, and the 
United States of America, working with friends and allies, must use our 
influence to continue the march of freedom for the sake of peace for 
generations to come.
    Some good news in the economy last week--we added 262,000 new jobs 
last month. There are more people working in America than ever before in 
our Nation's history.
    But there's more work to do. I gave a speech in Columbus, Ohio, on 
Wednesday. I said, you know, I reminded the folks that when I first got 
into office, I sent an energy plan to the United States Congress. I was 
concerned then, like I am concerned now, about high gasoline prices, 
about our dependency upon foreign sources of energy. Congress has been 
debating this issue now for 4 years. It's time to stop the rhetoric and 
stop the debate and get an energy plan to my desk that will encourage 
conservation, that will encourage renewable sources of energy, that will 
modernize the electricity grid, that will allow us to explore for oil 
and gas in environmentally friendly ways in the United States, that will 
make us less dependent on foreign sources of energy.
    But the main reason I've asked you to come and asked our panelists 
to appear with me is because I want to talk about Social Security. First 
of all, let me tell you, I understand that for years, Social Security 
was the third rail of American politics. That meant if you grabbed ahold 
of it, you weren't going to do well politically. In other words, if you 
talked about it, people would then say, ``Well, really, what he's going 
to do, he's going to take away the checks of our seniors.'' But you'll 
hear me describe the fact that I believe the system needs to be 
reformed, and I'll tell you why. And I believe political people, when 
they see a problem, have a duty to address that problem and not to pass 
that problem on to future Presidents and future Congress. I ran for 
office to solve problems.
    Some in Congress say, ``I wish you hadn't have brought up the issue. 
It may cause us to make a tough vote.'' Others in Congress have said, 
``Well, we really don't have any problem.'' That's how democracy works. 
There is difference of opinion. And I've got mine, and I'm going to 
continue traveling our country until it becomes abundantly clear to the 
American people we have a problem, and it's abundantly clear to those 
who will receive Social Security checks that nothing is going to change.

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    So I want to start by saying to the seniors here in Tennessee and 
folks listening on your television set that for you--for those of you 
receiving a check today and for those of you, like me, near retirement, 
nothing is going to change for you. You will get your check. I don't 
care what the TV ads say. I don't care what the propagandists say. 
You're going to get your check.
    It's important for people to understand that, because I fully 
understand, a lot of people depend solely on their Social Security check 
for retirement. I know that. When I was the Governor of Texas, I knew 
that. And I know that as the President of the United States. A lot of 
people are depending upon the check, and the Social Security system is 
working for them. There is a safety net. The problem is the safety net 
has got a hole in it for younger Americans. The safety net is secure for 
older Americans. Franklin Roosevelt did a good thing when he set up 
Social Security. It has worked. And so the discussion today is not to 
get rid of Social Security. The discussion today is to build on what 
Franklin Roosevelt put in place, to understand that things have changed 
since his Presidency.
    You see, Social Security worked for years because there were a lot 
of workers putting money into the system through their payroll taxes to 
pay for a limited number of beneficiaries. Matter of fact, in 1950, 
there were 16 workers per beneficiary. And the system works when it's 
that way. For example, you'll see that chart, for somebody who is making 
$14,200 in benefits on an annual basis, that means the worker would pay 
$900 to help that one person. Today, there is only 3.3 workers putting 
into the system. In other words, we got fewer workers paying per 
beneficiary. That obviously means costs are going up, and, particularly 
given this fact, baby boomers like me are getting ready to retire. Mine 
happens to be--my retirement age comes up in 2008, which is quite 
convenient. [Laughter]
    I'll be 62 years old in 2008. And there's a lot like me, and there's 
more coming. And we're living longer than people during Franklin 
Roosevelt's time and during the fifties. And we've been promised greater 
benefits than the previous generations. So think about this: Fewer 
workers paying into the system--3.3 per beneficiary now, soon to be 2 
workers per beneficiary--paying for a lot of baby boomers, like me, who 
have been promised greater benefits and we're living longer. And that's 
the math.
    That's why I say there's a hole in the safety net. And that hole 
exists for the people coming up, because that system can't sustain 
itself. It you look at this chart over here, you'll see that in 2018, 
more money is coming--going out of the system than coming in. More money 
in 2020, 2029, $200 billion a year will be going out of the system than 
coming in. More money in '37 will be coming out of the system, coming 
every year--it gets worse and worse and worse because there are baby 
boomers like me, more of us than ever before, drawing benefit--larger 
benefits and living longer.
    So we have a problem for a younger generation. Imagine somebody 
who's looking at this chart. They're going to say, ``What are you going 
to do about it, Mr. President? What are you going to do about it?'' And 
so I stood up in front of the Congress and said, ``We have a problem.'' 
And I think I was the first President ever to say, ``All options are on 
the table.'' I said, ``There's been some interesting ideas.'' 
Congressman Tim Penny, when he was a Democrat Congressman from 
Minnesota, put some interesting ideas on the table. President Clinton, 
my predecessor, put some interesting ideas on the table. Democrat 
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan from New York put some interesting ideas 
on the table.
    I have an obligation to say to people from both parties, let's fix 
this permanently. Let's don't slap a bandaid on the problem. Let us fix 
it permanently, and all ideas, bring them forward, and I'm interested in 
listening. There will be no political retribution when you put an idea 
on the table. As a matter of fact, you will get kudos. In Washington, 
DC, there's still partisan talk. There is still people saying, ``Well, 
I'm not so sure I want to get involved.'' My call to people from both 
political parties is, now is the time to put aside our political 
differences and focus on solving this problem for generations of 
Americans to come.

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    I do want to talk about an interesting idea that I have discussed 
with others. Now, I have an obligation to participate in the dialog. I 
don't get to write the legislation, by the way. Members of the Senate 
and the House will write the legislation. But I have an--I've got some 
ideas that I'd like for people to consider, and one of them is to allow 
younger workers to take some of their own money and set it aside in a 
personal retirement account, a savings account.
    And let me tell you why I like the idea. Here's why I like the idea. 
First of all, we'll discuss--and Congressman Penny will discuss this--
about the notion of compounding rate of interest. That means if you're 
able to get a reasonable rate of return on your money, then over time, 
it grows exponentially. In other words, if you're able to set aside some 
of your own money in a conservative mix of stocks and bonds, you'll get 
a better rate of return on that money than you would on the rate of 
return that the Government gets for you. And it's that difference that, 
over time, compounds.
    So take, for example, a person making $35,000 a year over his or her 
lifetime, and if he or she were allowed to set aside 4 percent of the 
payroll tax in a personal savings account, by the time he or she 
retired, there will be $250,000 as a part of the retirement system. 
That's what compounding rate of interest does.
    People say, ``Well, I'm not so sure I know how to invest.'' You 
know, there's kind of this notion that there is an investor class in 
America. That sounds a little limited to me, that only a certain 
number--certain type of person can invest. I don't subscribe to that 
notion. I believe everybody has got--should have the opportunity to 
invest, and I believe everybody can invest.
    Now, when you say ``personal account,'' you can't take the money and 
put it in the lottery. [Laughter] You've got a lottery in Tennessee? 
Right down the road. Well, you can't do that. Matter of fact, there 
would be a prescribed set of types of stocks and bonds. Obviously, we're 
not going to let people take their money and gamble it out. And we've 
done this before. See, this isn't new ground. After all, a lot of people 
invest their own money in 401(k)s. There's an investor class growing way 
beyond the concepts of the investor class. In other words, defined 
contributions plans are spreading out all over America. People are used 
to this concept. Federal employees get to do this through the Federal 
employee Thrift Savings Plan. In other words, the Federal Government has 
said to employees, ``Hey, you get to invest some of your own money, if 
you choose, in a conservative mix of stocks and bonds.''
    So this concept has been around. We're not--this is an interesting--
this isn't something brand new. This is an idea that ought to happen for 
Social Security, as well as other retirement--as it happened in other 
retirement funds.
    Thirdly, we want people owning something. I love the fact that more 
people now own their home than ever before in our Nation's history. I 
like the fact when--there's more entrepreneurs from all walks of life, 
people saying, ``I own my own business.'' That's the important part. How 
about letting people own a stake of the future of the country by having 
ownership in their own retirement plan? And that's what we're talking 
about, ownership.
    Finally, I like the idea of being--somebody being able to accumulate 
assets and pass it on to their heirs. Provides for stability in society. 
Now, ownership ought not to be limited. It ought to be spread around in 
our society.
    And finally, there's a macroeconomic benefit when more people save, 
like they would be doing through their personal accounts. It provides 
more capital for investment. And capital is necessary for the expansion 
of small business. Capital helps fuel the entrepreneurial spirit of 
America. The more savings, the more capital, the more jobs.
    So this is an idea that I want Congress to take a look at, in the 
spirit of all ideas ought to be put on the table. I'm looking forward to 
the discussions with members of both political parties. I've got a lot 
of work to do in the meantime. I'm going to Louisiana after this. Next 
week, I'll be traveling down to Florida, checking on the brother. 
[Laughter] And then I'm going to be going out--then I'll be going out 
west. And I'm going to campaign for Social Security, because I told you 
earlier, we have a duty in Congress to do

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something about this before it becomes too late, before we saddle an 
entire generation with a problem we cannot solve.
    Ready to go? I want to thank Tim Penny for being here. Elected to 
the United States Congress from Minnesota. Knows the subject really 
well. Congressman, thanks for coming. I'm proud you're here. Thanks for 
joining us.
    Representative Timothy J. Penny. You bet. You bet. Mr. President, 
thank you, first, for putting this issue on top of the agenda because it 
is an urgent issue, and it's one that needs to be addressed sooner than 
later. Doing nothing is not an option.

[At this point, former Representative Penny, senior fellow and co-
director, Hubert H. Humphrey Institute Policy Forum, Waseca, MN, made 
brief remarks.]

    The President. I want to thank Congressman Penny for sharing with 
us. As I mentioned, he was--he is a Democrat. But this is the spirit, of 
Republicans and Democrats coming together to solve this problem, that is 
needed. Nothing is going to happen unless people from both political 
parties make the decision to join together and come up with a serious 
solution. And I want people to understand that.
    And I really want to thank Tim. He's been very active in this issue 
for a long period of time. Occasionally he's able to make time to join 
the Presidential road show to take this issue to the people, and he adds 
a lot of class to the road show, I want you to know. [Laughter] He's 
going down to Louisiana with me a little later on today. So thanks for 
being here, Tim.
    We're going to start with Mary Hines from--where you live, Mary?
    Mary Hines. I live in Hickory Withe, Tennessee.
    The President. Hickory Withe, that's interesting.
    Ms. Hines. A very small community--we're unincorporated. [Applause]
    The President. Sounds like half the town came. [Laughter] How many 
people live there?
    Ms. Hines. About two or three thousand.
    The President. Yes, that's good, yes. Four times bigger than 
Crawford. [Laughter] Thanks for joining us.
    Ms. Hines. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
    The President. Are you receiving any Social Security?
    Ms. Hines. Yes, I am. I've worked for 40 years as a secretary. My 
husband worked 40 years for DuPont, and we're both drawing Social 
Security.
    The President. And is it important to you?
    Ms. Hines. It is very important. It is part of our retirement plan.
    The President. Good. Are you worried about the reforms taking it 
away from you?
    Ms. Hines. No, in fact, we--as we understand it, this is--the 
reforms will not affect us. However, my children--like you--are in the 
baby boomer era when they retire. So this will affect them somewhat. But 
basically, it will affect my grandchildren and my great grandchildren. 
So it's some----
    The President. No, I appreciate--sorry to interrupt. Now that I 
have, I better say something. [Laughter] She has a vital point. There 
are a lot of grandmothers who are justifiably concerned about what 
Social Security means to their grandchildren. This is a generation where 
Social Security has worked. She and her husband are getting help from 
the Social Security system. After all, it's their money coming back to 
them.
    And I can't tell you how many times I've heard from people once we 
have assured citizens that nothing changes for them, that, ``What are 
you going to do about my grandchildren?'' This is a generational issue. 
It is an issue that is very important for Members of Congress to 
understand that a lot of grandparents care deeply about not only their 
own security, but once they're--once they're assured, they care deeply 
about the security of their grandchildren. And I want to thank you for 
sharing that with us.
    Anything else you want to----
    Ms. Hines. Well, I look at your chart over here, and I would like to 
thank those workers who are helping pay my Social Security right now.
    The President. That's right. [Laughter] That would be me and a lot 
of other people. Good news is, they're going to keep paying, and you'll 
keep getting your check.

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    Beverly Peterson is with us. She's got a very interesting story. 
Ready to go? You look like you're ready to go. [Laughter]

[Beverly Peterson, administrative assistant, St. Mary's Episcopal 
School, Memphis, TN, made brief remarks.]

    The President. Yes, let me--thank you for sharing that with us. What 
Beverly is saying is, is that she was too young for the survivor 
benefits, and therefore the money that he put into the system--``he'' 
being the husband--there was nothing there. And because she has 
contributed to the Social Security system, when she retires, you'll get 
the benefits because of your check, because of your contributions, not 
because of your husband's contributions.
    Personal accounts--think about what personal accounts would have 
done for Beverly. The husband works, puts money aside since 16 years 
old. What age was he when he passed away?
    Ms. Peterson. Forty-nine.
    The President. Forty-nine years old, so that's 33 years of 
compounding rate of interest, 33 years of that money set aside would 
grow. And when he passed away, there is an asset base for Beverly that 
she gets, and she can live on it. It'll help her transition to her days 
of retirement. In other words, that's one of the benefits of being able 
to accumulate your own assets that, as Tim said, you call your own. And 
when it's your own asset, you can pass it on to whomever you choose.
    The system is an important system today, but it has got holes in the 
safety net. And one of the holes in the safety net is, a widow like 
Beverly did not have any assets when her husband passed away.
    Thank you for sharing that story with us. Good job.
    Pastor Andrew Jackson. Welcome, Pastor Jackson.
    Pastor Andrew Jackson. Thank you, Mr. President. I'm delighted to be 
here. Thanks for the invitation.
    The President. Well, we're glad you're here. You pastor what church, 
sir?
    Pastor Jackson. Faith Temple Ministries, Church of God and Christ.
    The President. Great.
    Pastor Jackson. My bishop is Bishop G.E. Patterson and----
    The President. Bishop Patterson, a fine man.
    Pastor Jackson. Bishop Jerry Maynard is my----
    The President. Good. How's the congregation doing?
    Pastor Jackson. It's doing quite well. It's kind of like the city 
bus; we have some getting on and some getting off. [Laughter]
    The President. The difference in your case is, the fare is free. 
[Laughter]
    Pastor Jackson. Yes, that's true.
    The President. Tell me why you're here. Thanks for coming. I'm 
honored. I want to hear your views on Social Security.

[Pastor Jackson made further remarks.]

    The President. That's called political propaganda.
    Pastor Jackson. Oh, political--okay, political propaganda.
    The President. That's what they said when I ran for President in 
2000. I actually brought the issue up. They said, ``If he gets elected, 
he's going to take away your check.'' It didn't happen. Everybody got 
their checks. That's why propaganda--that's empty. That means----
    Pastor Jackson. It's empty.
    The President. Yes, there's no truth to it. Go ahead.

[Pastor Jackson made further remarks.]

    The President. See, here's what I like. I like the idea that the 
pastor is thinking about generations to come. And he said, ``I'm worried 
about my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, and I hope there's a 
system that develops that encourages asset accumulation so generation-
to-generation assets can be passed on.'' That hasn't happened for many 
in our history. No, that hasn't been the case throughout the history of 
the United States. We haven't encouraged asset formulation. There hasn't 
been wealth passed from one generation to the next in certain parts of 
our society.
    That's just the truth. And it seems like to me that it makes sense 
for us to come together and encourage a plan that does just

[[Page 421]]

that, that provides continuity from one generation to the next when it 
comes to assets. We want people owning something. I don't care where 
they're from, what political party they associate with, what 
neighborhood they live in. The more people own something, the better off 
America is, and the ability to pass assets from one generation to the 
next is an important part of our legacy.
    Let me tell you one other thing, and then we've got two other 
panelists here. This system--and I want to work with members of both 
parties to make sure this system takes care of our poorer workers. In 
other words, we can design the benefit structure for that which exists 
in a way that recognizes some people work all their life and will have 
to live below the poverty level upon retirement. And we don't want that 
in America. There are ways to make sure this system provides a solid 
safety net.
    Tim understands that. Harold understands that. All of us can work on 
this system. So I want to assure you, Pastor, that not only will the 
system encourage asset accumulation, but we want to make sure that 
whatever Social Security system exists, that when we permanently fix it, 
that people are given a true safety net, that the hole is fixed in the 
safety net, and that there is a safety net for retirees.
    Harry Summer. Harry, thanks for coming.
    Harry Summer. Thank you, Mr. President.
    The President. I understand you were a professor at one time.
    Mr. Summer. Yes, sir, I was a professor of marketing for 35 years at 
the University of Memphis.
    The President. Oh, fantastic. Well, you're watching me market. 
That's what I'm doing right now. [Laughter]
    Mr. Summer. Well, I have a few students in the audience, as well, 
I'm sure. But it occurred to me--I'm worried about this young lady here, 
not myself.

[Mr. Summer, retired senior, Memphis, TN, made further remarks, 
concluding as follows.]

    Mr. Summer. This morning about 4:15 a.m., I woke up. I had--talked 
about compound interest. And you can talk about it, but I decided I 
would give a concrete example, so I went to my computer and worked on it 
for about 30 minutes--longer, I think, than that. But anyway----
    The President. See, I accused him of being one of the revelers 
outside my hotel room. [Laughter] He assured me he was on his computer. 
[Laughter]
    Mr. Summer. Well, it's a lot easer to do it on the computer than it 
is to do it by hand.
    The President. That's right.

[Mr. Summer made further remarks.]

    The President. Yes, see what--and that's four times the amount. In 
other words----
    Mr. Summer. That's four times.
    The President. ----the increase was four times the amount of what 
the investment was because of the growth. Your money grows. And again, I 
repeat, people are going to say, ``Well, they're going to let them put 
it into risky adventures. It's risky to invest money.'' No, it's not. 
It's a much better rate of return than the Social Security trust today. 
And that's--what's risky is to leave your money in there and do nothing. 
That's what's risky, particularly for younger Americans.
    Mr. Summer. Yes.
    The President. Karen Siegfried. Thank you very much. Karen, here you 
are, got a bunch of older folks here on the stage.
    Karen Siegfried. That's okay.
    The President. It's good. Give us your story.
    Ms. Siegfried. Well, the reason he's so concerned about me is 
because he's my grandfather, so that--he's got a little vested interest.

[Karen Siegfried, athletic trainer, Campbell Clinic, Memphis, TN, made 
further remarks.]

    The President. You know, somebody told me one time--they took a poll 
amongst 20-year-olders, and 20-year-old people said they thought it was 
more likely they'd see a UFO than get a Social Security check. 
[Laughter] Interesting dynamic, isn't it? A lot of people say 20-year-
olders don't care about the issues. And part of my job is to make sure 
that they understand the facts, because once people realize--once the 
seniors realize nothing is going to change, once Congress

[[Page 422]]

realizes there are a lot of grandfathers wondering about their 
granddaughters and their future, once 20-year-olders and 30-year-olders 
start to say, ``Wait a minute. Now this is a problem, what are you going 
to do about it?'' Those are the dynamics to get something done.
    I presume you expect Congress to get something done now, before it's 
too late.
    Ms. Siegfried. Yes, I do.
    The President. Well, listen, I want to thank our panelists for 
coming. I thought this was an interesting dialog. Good job. I want to 
thank you all for giving us a chance to come report about this important 
issue. I'm looking forward to working with Congress. I expect there to 
be a civil dialog and honest debate. All ideas should be on the table. 
The American people are going to influence the outcome of this debate.
    I want to thank the good people of Memphis for letting me come by 
and visit with you about it. I want to assure you, I will continue 
traveling our country asking people to be involved, getting people to 
write their Congressmen and Senators to say, ``Get rid of the 
partisanship, sit down at the table, and modernize this system for 
generations to come.''
    God bless, and thanks for coming.

Note: The President spoke at 10:21 a.m. at the Canon Center for the 
Performing Arts. In his remarks, he referred to Mayor A.C. Wharton and 
Sheriff Mark H. Luttrell of Shelby County, TN; Bishop Gilbert Earl 
Patterson, International Presiding Bishop, Church of God in Christ, 
Inc.; Minister of Women's Affairs Massouda Jalal of Afghanistan; and 
Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida. Discussion participant Pastor Andrew Jackson 
referred to Bishop Jerry L. Maynard, Fourth Ecclesiastical 
Jurisdictional in Tennessee, Church of God in Christ.