[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 38, Number 12 (Monday, March 25, 2002)]
[Pages 454-463]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
Interview With Latin American and American Spanish Language Journalists

March 19, 2002

President's Upcoming Visit to Central and South America

    The President. I'm going to give you an opening statement. But first 
of all, these observers are simply that.
    Q. They're not going to take one question.
    The President. They get no questions. They're here just to listen to 
your questions and my answers. They probably will like your questions 
and not like my answers. [Laughter]
    Anyway, let me talk about the trip from my perspective and we'll 
kind of rotate around. Everybody will get at least one question; 
hopefully everybody will get two.

[[Page 455]]

    First, I'm looking forward to my trip. Obviously, one of the main 
purposes of the trip is to go speak about development, world 
development, in Monterrey. I will lay out there for the world leaders 
what--I already did so in our country--which is the Millennium Challenge 
Fund, of a fund that will ultimately be $5 billion a year. It starts at 
$1.5 billion, roughly $1.5 billion, and then will go up to about two-
thirds of $5 billion, and then will be at $5 billion in year three and 
will remain at $5 billion.
    And that fund will be used to encourage--first of all, it will say 
our country assumes our rightful responsibility to help developing 
nations, but we expect there to be rightful obligations on those who 
receive them, to make sure that there's an education system that works, 
a health care system that works, an opportunity for development of an 
entrepreneurial class or small businesses--foster trade between 
ourselves. And countries that practice good habits will get money. Now, 
this is on top of roughly $10 billion which we spend already in direct 
development aid, not including other projects, assistance to the World 
Bank organizations, et cetera.
    Also, I'm really looking forward to seeing my friend the President 
of Mexico. He was my friend prior to September the 11th; he was my 
friend after September the 11th; he'll be my friend for a long period of 
time because I know him well. I respect him a lot. We've got a very good 
relationship, and obviously, we've got a very important bilateral 
relationship.
    So we're going to have a--we'll have a discussion about issues that 
are common issues. Obviously, the border is a common issue, how to make 
the border work better, looking at a variety of options as to how to 
modernize the border between Mexico and the United States, as well as 
the border between Canada and the United States.
    I'll discuss some ideas with him. We'll continue to talk about 
migration, the need to make sure that people are treated with respect 
when they come to this country; that I strongly believe that we need to 
pass what we call 245(i) here. The House has done so; the Senate hasn't 
done anything yet. And I'd like to get that done quickly. We're urging 
the Senate to move and to get this bill passed.
    And we've got a lot of discussions about commercial relations and 
law enforcement relations. We've got great cooperation. I've been very 
impressed by the dialog that we've had. It was a good dialog before the 
attacks; it's been a good dialog after.
    Then we go down to Peru. I'm looking forward to seeing President 
Toledo. He is a leader dedicated to democracy and reform. I'm really 
looking forward to being in Lima. I've never been there. It's going to 
be an exciting trip for me and mi esposa. And it will not only give me a 
chance to have a good bilateral discussion with el Presidente on a 
variety of subjects, not the least of which will be counternarcotics 
cooperation, trade. I'm very concerned about opening markets in the 
United States. We'll talk to him about that.
    And then we'll be meeting with other leaders from the Andean trade 
pact. And I look forward to meeting them as well. I've known most of 
them before. This will be the third or fourth time I've seen President 
Toledo, so I've got a familiar relationship with him.
    And then off to El Salvador to discuss a free trade agreement with 
the Central American countries and to see my friend President Flores, 
who is really one of the bright young leaders. I admire him a lot and 
respect him a lot. So I look forward to discussing--the main discussion 
in Central America will be trade, will be the focus on how to enhance 
prosperity.
    The main discussions with the Andean countries will be trade plus, 
obviously, the issue of drugs, drogas. I will remind all countries, 
however, that our Nation has got to do a better job of suppressing 
demand. In order to make sure that we're effective in dealing with the 
Andean nations, with the issue of borders, safe borders with Mexico--so 
long as we've got people using drugs in America, somebody is going to 
provide them. And it's likely they're going to come from our neighbors. 
So we've got a big obligation at home as well. I want to make that clear 
to the leaders and the people as well.
    So this is going to be an exciting trip. I said when I first got 
elected that good relations in the neighborhood, in our own 
neighborhood, is the cornerstone of a good foreign policy. I meant that. 
My first trip as President was to Mexico. I continue to stay very much

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involved in the neighborhood, and so I'm looking forward to the trip.

Trade Promotion Authority

    Q. Yes, Mr. President. In your trip to Mexico City, you're talking 
about----
    The President. Mexico City, do you mean Monterrey?
    Q. I'm sorry, Monterrey.
    The President. I was going to say, have we got another trip, and 
they forgot to tell me? [Laughter]
    Q. When you're talking about trade, you obviously know that the 
whole issue of fast track hasn't gone anywhere here in the Senate. Do 
you see that----
    The President. In the Senate? Yes.
    Q. And in Congress, itself.
    The President. Well, the House passed it, remember?
    Q. Right.
    The President. We got it out of the House, which a lot of people 
didn't think we were going to be able to do.
    Q. So as far as trade conversations down there, do you see that as a 
problem?
    The President. No, I don't. I see it--I will remind them that we'll 
continue to work hard with the Senate. I'll remind them of some of the 
language of some of the Senators that do believe that we ought to have a 
free trade agreement. We ought to extend the Andean Trade Preference 
Act, which I will continue to push and won't happen prior to my leaving. 
I'm going in 2 days. But nevertheless, we're confident we can get that 
done.
    I will also remind them trade promotion authority passed the House. 
A lot of people thought that was a higher hurdle than the Senate. The 
Senate leadership has said that they're going to bring this bill up. I 
don't know the timing of it yet, but we're going to push hard to get it 
done as soon as possible. It is an important issue to a lot of Senators, 
and I think I'll get it done. So I'll talk about that. Obviously, we 
have an obligation at home to get TPA passed, and we're halfway there.
    And then we'll also talk about free trade in the Americas, as well 
as the Central American--the trade negotiations. I'll be talking about 
Chile, starting with the free trade agreement with Chile. We think we 
can get that done this year as well.
    So there is a lot of positive progress. And I'll remind them that on 
the decision I made on steel, I honored the agreements and the 
commitments of NAFTA and the free trade agreement. And so, as a result, 
Canada and Mexico were excluded from the agreement, as are most 
developing nations. And the only nation that's been affected is Brazil 
in our hemisphere, and only to the extent of about 12 percent of her 
steel production--or her exports.

Assistance to Colombia

    Q. Mr. President, in Lima, you are going to meet with President 
Pastrana of Colombia.
    The President. Yes, I am.
    Q. While your administration is moving to increase the aid, the 
military aid to Colombia, to fight the foreign guerrillas--but according 
to the U.S. State Department, most of the drug trafficking--no, much of 
the drug trafficking problem and human rights violation is 
responsibility for the rightwing paramilitary group AUC. Aren't you 
afraid that your effort could not help to solve a big part of the 
problem?
    The President. Am I afraid--I beg your pardon--afraid of the?
    Q. That you help the Colombian Government to fight the FARC----
    The President. Well, we expect them to fight all renegade and 
terrorist groups. We expect them to hold the line. I mean, we are not 
picking and choosing. We believe that AUC and FARC need to be--we need 
to focus on AUC and FARC, and the third group--I understand Mr. Pastrana 
is in discussions with them right now, and we'll see how that goes.
    And so we don't play favorites with terrorist groups and renegade 
groups. We believe there's equality, and they're equally bad. And so 
we're going to insist that we--not insist--we will offer help and aid, 
like we have done. Right now we're restricted by Congress to focus on 
narcotrafficking, and we believe that we will work--we need to work with 
Congress to help broaden the focus to counterterrorism. And we're more 
than willing to have those discussions with Congress. I've already done 
so.

[[Page 457]]

    But I have always said that we'll stay within the confines of the 
law. We have no interest in committing ground troops, but we do want to 
help them, and we'll do so.

Impact of Trade on Developing Countries

    Q. Mr. President, about this trade agreement with Central American 
countries--and I'm thinking specifically of El Salvador. How is your 
vision--how do you make these free trade agreements into benefits for 
the real people? I mean, in terms of development, what's your vision?
    The President. Well, I think people--first of all, the statistic I 
like to quote is that we buy $450 billion of goods from developing 
nations on an annual basis. I think that's the number I used the other 
day in my speech. That is 8 times more--and that, by the way, ends up--
when you purchase goods, you're actually purchasing something that 
requires labor, and labor is a job. And so one of the focuses of this 
administration is how to put policies in place that enable people to 
work for a living. What is it--what is it we can do with each other? And 
trade equals jobs, as far as I'm concerned. And the trade figures, which 
really put money directly into the economies of countries with whom we 
trade, are significantly bigger than direct aid. And so it makes sense 
to promote trade.
    So the answer to your question--and I'm confident people in your 
fine country are asking, ``What good is it for me? How will this benefit 
me?'' And that's a legitimate question people ask. And the answer is, 
trade equals jobs. The more markets are open, the more trade there is, 
the more jobs available. And the President understands; President Flores 
understands that. And that is very important to understand. It is--the 
amount of capital that ends up flowing within the private sector in the 
country is significantly greater than any aid package could possibly be. 
And that's important for people to know. And that's why I think 
President Flores is excited about the idea of having this trade pact.
    And obviously, countries are going to have to put procedures in 
place that will allow for the orderly development of a private sector, 
rule of law, anticorruption measures. No one is going to do business if 
you get money stolen from you. There's got to be tightening of 
anticorruption measures. There's got to be a good education system. And 
part of the Millennium Challenge Fund will help developing nations 
develop an education system.
    One of the things we learned from northern Mexico--the trade--is 
that trade created a lot of job opportunity. And the job opportunity 
created training opportunities, which in itself was good education for 
many people. The border region of my State, while still poor, has 
changed significantly as a result of the trade policies. And Monterrey 
has blossomed into one of the great financial centers of the hemisphere 
because of trade.
    And so there's a lot of positive benefits for people. People talk 
about health care, and it's essential that we have good health care. But 
it's--a society that is generating wealth is one much more likely to 
provide good health care for her people. And there's a lot of benefits 
to trade. And so that's probably the most direct benefit to the people.

Drug Interdiction/Intelligence

    Q. One small detail concerning what he asked you before. Is Peru, 
Colombia, and the United States talking about a place in an intelligence 
basement in the jungle of Colombia and Peru to fight narcotraffickers 
and----
    The President. Are we talking about--I can't get too specific about 
placements. Let me just put it to you this way: We're willing to 
cooperate to do as effective a job as we can on interdicting. I won't 
count that as a question.
    Q. You're already talking about it. And my question, please----
    The President. One of the things we don't discuss, at least in this 
administration, is intelligence matters. We don't want the enemy to have 
any sense about what we're thinking about doing, or where we may be 
going. So that does not count as a question.

Fujimori Government Investigation

    Q. President Toledo will ask you to help him for the 
reclassification of documents concerning corruption and human rights 
violations in Fujimori's government. The CIA, especially----
    The President. FBI.

[[Page 458]]

    Q. FBI and CIA also has some of the most important documents, we 
think, concerning the Vladimiro Montesinos. How long are we going to 
have to wait to know what those documents have?
    The President. Well, actually, we're cooperating very closely. I 
think he would say that we've had great cooperation with the Peruvian 
Government. There has been significant cooperation. As a matter of fact, 
it led to the significant arrest, as you may remember. And I will be 
very candid with him and talk about matters of sharing information. 
We're not--again, I don't know a specific document you're talking to. 
But I can tell you the history has been positive up to now. Otherwise 
the arrest--I can't remember the fellow's name. You know him more than 
me, Fujimori's close----
    Q. Vladimiro Montesinos?
    The President. Yes. That was the result of our cooperation, if I'm 
not mistaken.
    Q. How was it?
    The President. What?
    Q. How was it?
    The President. How was the result?
    Q. Yes.
    The President. Well, we shared a lot of information in order to make 
the case, if I'm not mistaken. The Ambassador here was very much 
involved with that. And I think that history will show when the facts 
come out that this man wouldn't have been arrested without the close 
cooperation of the U.S. Government.

Mexico-U.S. Border Issues

    Q. Sir, the Washington Post runs a story today that--about the 
creation of a new border agency that will merge Customs, the INS, and 
the Border Patrol.
    The President. Don't believe everything you read in the paper. 
[Laughter]
    Q. Okay. [Laughter]
    The President. That's off the record, of course. No, put it in 
there. It will make me a hero. [Laughter]
    Q. I know that the--at least the border issue will be a main topic 
on Friday's bilateral reunion with President Fox. What will a reinforced 
U.S.-Mexican border mean for each country?
    The President. Yes, let me talk about--first of all, I'm exploring 
all options to make our borders more secure and more modern. And so what 
does that mean with Mexico? Well, first of all, I recognize the--of all 
people, I recognize, since I was the Governor of Texas, I know how much 
traffic goes across that border on a daily basis and how much of that 
traffic stays within the region. I mean, we've got aunts and uncles 
visiting their nephews and nieces and have been doing it for 
generations. And therefore, a smart border policy is one that recognizes 
customs and habits and the history; as a matter of fact, facilitates 
that flow, as opposed to prevents that flow of people, and recognizes 
that there is a unique relationship here. And, therefore, there's got to 
be positive policies that do not impede those customs.
    Secondly, a smart border is one that recognizes that we've got 
traffic originating in the midst of our respective countries that can be 
inspected somewhere other than the border--get a good seal of approval 
from an inland port, say, and let that cargo, once it's inspected, once 
clear for travel, proceed directly to a port or a destination in Mexico 
or the United States or vice versa, so that the traffic moves more 
expeditiously through the border.
    It's a smart border initiative. It's one that recognizes the amount 
of commerce. You go down to Laredo, like I have, and you've got miles 
and miles of trucks. The system is antiquated; it is outdated. It needs 
to be modernized for the good of both countries.
    Third, border security means more manpower and effective 
coordination to crack down on ``coyotes.'' The worst kind of smuggling, 
in my judgment, is people smuggling. And as you well know, there has 
been a lot of that, and there's been a lot of tragedy as a result of 
poor, hard-working Mexicans, looking for a job, ending up in the back of 
somebody's truck in terrible weather, in horrible conditions, because of 
``coyotes.'' And we've got to do a better job. And when we crack down on 
the ``coyotes,'' we've also been pretty darn effective at the same time 
about cracking down on smuggling, on both ways, I might add.
    We need to be effective with biometrics. That will not only 
facilitate the common flow,

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the daily flow of traffic; it will also help us deal with those who are 
coming into the country illegally and/or register those who are coming 
illegally for extended periods of time. So there's a lot we can do.
    How best to effect that is what I'm looking at within the 
administration. I'm looking at a variety of options, because I want our 
borders to be modern and secure and recognize the great vitality between 
our respective countries. We've had good dialog, by the way, with the 
Fox administration, as have we had with the Chretien administration. And 
I think people are beginning to realize that we're serious about--both 
sides, or all three of us, are serious about working collaterally to 
make our borders work better.

Immigration and Border Security Legislation

    Q. As far as the 245(i), how confident are you that the Senate will 
move on it?
    The President. Well, I'm not confident they'll move on it; I'm 
confident we've got the votes. But the problem is I haven't been 
confident that they're going to move on many things these days. We've 
gotten a lot of bills out of the House and not much out of the Senate. 
And so that's why--I just finished my Cabinet meeting and made a direct 
call to the Senate to get 245(i) passed. They're dealing with other 
matters. Campaign funding reform is up, and they've still got an energy 
bill moving around.
    Q. Because there's also a deadline for the program to end.
    The President. No, I know. Trust me, I'm a big 245(i) backer. And I 
remember, as I recall, some in the Senate and the House went down to 
Mexico and talked to President Fox about a modern immigration policy. 
And I just hope that they're able to live up to their--kind of their 
implied promise or explicit promise they told the Mexican people when 
they went down there.

Venezuela

    Q. Mr. President, in your trip to Lima, you're going to meet the 
Andean Presidents but not the Venezuelan President.
    The President. That's right.
    Q. As your spokesman tells us almost every day----
    The President. He mentioned it? [Laughter]
    Q. Yes. Your administration are--your administration is not happy 
with Mr. Chavez's trips, Mr. Chavez's friends. What should the current 
Venezuelan administration do to--in order to be closer to your--maybe 
get a meeting? Or thinking about the recent political unrest in 
Venezuela, are you worried that there could be some--the situation could 
be worse?
    The President. Well, let me see here. First, Venezuela is not a part 
of the Andean trade group. Secondly, the President has spoken out 
against free trade agreements. And since this is going to be mainly a 
discussion--other than my bilateral with President Toledo--a discussion 
about trade, that it doesn't seem to make sense to have him a part of 
those discussions. Why have somebody there who's not in favor of what 
we're all trying to do?
    Secondly, we are concerned about Venezuela. We've had long-time 
connections with the Venezuelan people, have a great respect for the 
Venezuelan people. We've got a commercial relationship with the 
Venezuelans for years, and that obviously is in the energy sector. And 
we are concerned any time there is unrest in our neighborhood, and we're 
watching the situation very carefully.
    This man was elected by the people. We respect democracy in our 
country, and we hope that he respects those institutions, the democratic 
institutions within his country.

Temporary Protected Status Extension

    Q. Mr. President, as you might or might not be aware, there are 6 
million Salvadorans living inside our country.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. And 2 million and a half living outside, mostly in the United 
States. What could we expect in terms of migrations? Are you--also the 
announcement of the TPS extension for Salvadorans?
    The President. I won't be making that announcement there. But as you 
may remember, I supported the TPS extension last time around. It does 
not come up until September of this year, if I'm not mistaken. I will 
take it under advisement. But the last time it came up, I was strongly 
in support.

[[Page 460]]

    Let me just give you my view generally about immigration. There are 
people in our neighborhood who hurt--a mom or a dad who worry about 
whether or not their children eat--and I have great sympathy for those 
folks. And many come to our country to work. I used to remind people 
that family values did not stop at the Rio Bravo. There's a lot of 
parents who deeply care about whether or not their families can survive 
and are willing to take a risk to come long distances to find work. And 
it turns out that a place that had been looking for workers for a period 
of time was the United States. The economy was strong; there were a lot 
of jobs that others wouldn't do, what people were willing to do, and 
they came here.
    And my attitude is that we ought to have a program, figure out a 
program that will match a willing employer with a willing employee and 
make that a part of a legal process. In other words, if you're willing 
to work and somebody is looking for a job, that we make that easier 
rather than harder to accomplish.
    And that's not the case in the law today. It's hard to legally hire 
somebody. And I think we can--that's going to be a discussion I must 
have with Members of our United States Congress and obviously with the 
President of Mexico, for starters. This is going to take a while to 
accomplish, but it's--to me, it's a commonsense way to approach the 
migration issue.
    How that affects the people here from El Salvador, some legal and 
some illegal, it's hard to tell.
    Q. So just to be sure, so you're not making any announcement in 
terms of migration in El Salvador?
    The President. No, I'm not. But I will remind people, if asked, of 
course, that I was for TPS the last time around.

Peru/Hemispheric Democracy

    Q. Not only Venezuela but also Argentina and Colombia and Brazil is 
doing its own way, but South America is going through a very special 
moment now. Are you looking in Peru a new ally closer to the United 
States to go to the South American region?
    The President. Well, that's very interesting. First of all, I'm 
going to Peru because I do view Peru as an ally and a friend. I'm the 
first United States sitting President to have ever gone to Peru. And I 
welcome the reforms in Peru, and I welcome the fact that President 
Toledo is taking a very firm stand on reforming and anticorruption. And 
he was elected through the democratic process, which is important.
    And interestingly enough, all but one nation in our hemisphere has 
got a democratically elected President. Cuba is the only country that 
does not have a democratically elected President. That is a significant 
change, if you think about it, in the history of our hemisphere, an 
amazing change to the better.
    We just had elections in Central America, the neighbors of El 
Salvador. And the neighborhood there has had two elections, good, clean 
elections, where reformers and advocates for the open market and trade 
were elected. And I'm looking forward--I've met them prior to their 
swearing-in. I look forward to seeing them again when I'm down there.
    Brazil, obviously, is fixing to have an election. Colombia is going 
to have an election soon. It will be very interesting to see how that 
election plays out. Obviously, the security of the people will be an 
issue in that election. I think that happens in May, if I'm not 
mistaken.
    So there's an ongoing--to me, it's a--the system--and Mexico, of 
course, was one where, you know, the PAN wins, and all of a sudden it 
shows the maturity of the democratic process. And I think this is 
incredibly positive results for our hemisphere. Not everything is going 
to be smooth all the time, but so long as leaders and the people demand 
democracy, there will be more freedom and more opportunity and more hope 
than in societies that will be closed and will frighten their neighbors.
    Argentina is a financial issue. Argentina has got a longstanding 
democracy. And it's an issue of great concern for us, because we're 
friends with Argentina and we're partners with Argentina. And we are 
hoping that Argentina will make the necessary reforms, the tough 
decisions necessary to earn the confidence of some of these 
international financial institutions but most particularly the

[[Page 461]]

IMF. I know that I've talked to my friend the President of Spain a lot, 
because the Spanish banks are quite exposed in Argentina. They've got 
more exposure than any banks in the world, and we're second. So we're 
interested, but we're more interested in the people, themselves.
    So we've spent, in our administration, a lot of time focusing on 
Argentina. So I'm concerned about that; on the other hand, I know that 
there is a way out, and the country itself is going to have to make some 
tough calls, starting with reforming the relationship between the States 
and their budgets and the central government.
    But we'll see what happens. I'm optimistic about our hemisphere. I 
think it's been--I think there's some really great years ahead of us. 
And the reason I am is because I've watched some of these elections very 
closely, and I think the outcomes have been--they've embraced giving the 
people an opportunity to express themselves.

U.N. Commission on Human Rights/Cuba

    Q. You mentioned Cuba.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. It is said that you are going to ask President Toledo to vote 
against Cuba in the United Nations Human Rights Committee meetings?
    The President. Well, I wouldn't say voting against. I'm just going 
to remind the Human Rights Commission to remember that Cuba is an 
incredibly repressive regime. It's the one nondemocratic government. 
They put people in prison if they don't agree with you. I mean, that to 
me is a violation of people's human rights. I mean, there's no rule of 
law there. It's the rule of one person. He's been there for a long 
period of time, and unfortunately the people of that country are 
suffering as a result of him.
    So it's a vote for liberty and freedom, and that's something Mr. 
Castro doesn't believe in. For example, there's not a lot of free press 
there, to put it in your lap, as we say.
    Last question.

Millennium Challenge Fund

    Q. Okay. Today's main story in our newspaper in Mexico, as part of 
the international conference in Monterrey, was the U.S. opposition--
well, it was Alan Larson's opposition----
    The President. Who?
    Q. Alan Larson?
    The President. Alan Larson?
    NSC Senior Director Maisto. Under Secretary for Economic Affairs.
    The President. Oh, okay.
    Q. Okay. You do know him, okay. [Laughter]
    The President. I've got a big administration. [Laughter]
    Q. He was speaking on the----
    The President. Well, I don't know if I know him or not. Depends on 
what he said. [Laughter]
    Q. Okay, now I'm going to rethink the question first----
    The President. The real question is, will he know me after what he 
said? But anyway, go ahead. What's Al's position, and what's the 
subject? [Laughter]
    Q. Well, the story was on the United States opposition to aid 
quotas. Is it----
    The President. To what quotas?
    Q. Aid, quotas for aid.
    The President. Aid quotas?
    Q. Aid, to help developing countries.
    The President. Oh, yes. Okay, yes.
    Q. And it's----
    The President. He and I are in the same position. Al still has a 
job. [Laughter]
    Q. That's good. The conference started yesterday, and is it expected 
that every developed country decides on its own how and how much to 
help, if----
    The President. Now, here's the thing. You can't--it's an arbitrary 
measurement that I frankly don't think reflects the great compassion of 
the United States. People are able to adopt whatever formula they think 
is necessary to be generous. But these formulas often times don't 
measure how much a nation is contributing, like our nation is 
contributing.
    And I think a better way to go, and the way we are going to go, is 
through this Millennium Challenge Fund, where we're laying out a $5-
billion-a-year commitment. Now, that starts 3 years from now, so--I just 
want to make sure everybody understands the funding. I know there's a 
little confusion about what--a third of it, which is more than

[[Page 462]]

$1.5 billion, it's a little less than $1.7 billion--$1.66667 billion--
and then two-thirds, and then----
    Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. Could be, it's going to be--be 
determined exactly.
    The President. Anyway. It'll be up to $5 billion at the end of 3 
years. [Laughter]
    Larson? [Laughter] Anyway--no, you're Fleischer.
    Five billion at the end of 3 years, $5 billion the fourth year, $5 
billion the sixth year, okay?
    This is a better way to go. As I said earlier, that it is an 
obligation we take seriously, and by the way, this is on top of that 
which we already do. It doesn't include monies, for example, to make the 
world more secure. It's hard to have economic development if you're 
being terrorized. And one of the obligations that we take seriously is 
the obligation to rid the world of terror. And we don't mind leading 
this coalition, and we are spending the most money to do so--which is 
fine. We're happy to do that. We will defend freedom.
    My only point is, there's a lot of ways to contribute. We're a big 
contributor to the World Bank, significant contributor to the IMF. We 
contribute in a variety of ways--the United Nations, which is a large 
contributor, and there's a variety. So do other nations--don't get me 
wrong. I'm not saying we're the only ones doing this. I'm just saying 
that the best way for us to proceed, the most comfortable I am, is to 
make the commitment I have made through this Millennium Challenge Fund--
which is a reform to the current process, because on the one hand we're 
saying we have responsibilities; we'll uphold those responsibilities. 
But there is a responsibility from the country that receives money as 
well, a responsibility to the people, a responsibility to rout out 
corruption.
    I think it makes no sense to give aid, money, to countries that are 
corrupt. Because you know what happens? The money doesn't help the 
people; it helps an elite group of leaders. And that's not fair to the 
people of this particular country, nor is it fair to the taxpayers in 
the United States.
    So I believe it's time to bring a measure of accountability into 
this process, and I'm going to be very strong about it in Monterrey. I 
don't subscribe to the theory that certain countries cannot reform, and 
therefore we must give them money anyway. I don't buy that. I believe 
everybody can have basic rule of law and can respect the citizens who 
live there. Everybody should be able to focus on educating their 
children and have good health care policy.
    And so this millennium fund is going to be focusing not only on 
enhancing trade and the practices that lead to good trade policy--and 
again, I'll repeat, if a nation is worried about developing, a nation 
can receive a heck of a lot more help, private capital, aid--not in the 
normal sense but help--through trade. It happens every time. And so the 
best practices, it seems like to me, the best way to foster what we all 
would hope for, which is a healthy, well-educated, prosperous world, is 
to encourage trade and the habits that lead to trade and the habits that 
lead to marketplace.
    And again, I repeat, there's got to be good government practices 
attributed to that. And I'm going to be tough about it. I'm not 
interested in funding corruption, period. And if a country thinks 
they're going to get aid from the United States and they're stealing 
money, they're just not going to get it out of this millennium fund--and 
hopefully not out of any fund.
    And then we expect nations to develop practices that will help the 
people directly, like good education. I'm the first leader who stood up 
and said that the World Bank ought to have 50 percent of the money they 
distribute in the form of grants, not loans--grants to help education 
and health flourish in developing nations. I think it would be a lot 
better than, you know, loaning money that in many circumstances can't be 
repaid. It's hard to get a rate of return in the financial sense on an 
education system. But you can get a huge rate of return on the capital 
of human capital, by a good education system.
    So I'm for grants, not loans, for 50 percent of the money coming out 
of the World Bank. I think there's a lot of people down there in 
Monterrey that--you know, I didn't hear a lot of thunderous applause on 
it, but it's the right thing to do.
    And so I'm not afraid of taking a lead. And I'm going to lead on 
this issue, because I

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feel strongly that for our taxpayers to be comfortable with money being 
spent, there's got to be something, there's got to be an effort made--a 
true, honest effort made to improve the plight of the people we're 
trying to help.
    And I'm optimistic about all this. We've got some terrible problems 
in the world. I'm deeply disturbed about the AIDS crisis. It is a 
significant, significant issue in Africa, obviously. There's a place 
where we've put up a half a billion dollars to begin. And when I see a 
strategy, a focused strategy that will yield results, then we'll be 
willing to work with Congress to put more money in.
    But I want to see--and we didn't mind; we're happy to take the lead 
in starting to seed the fund. But now, it's time to see whether or not 
there can be a strategy in place that will actually work. And when we 
see something working--and we'd like to help--but when we see something 
working, we'll be an enthusiastic backer. But if it doesn't work, it's 
time--it's time--to hold people accountable. And that's exactly what my 
message is going to be in Monterrey. I'm looking forward to giving--I'm 
sorry. I've got to go. [Laughter]
    Q. I will wait and see.
    The President. Tengo que salir. You'd better yell loud, because I 
can't hold this pack back. [Laughter] They'll be up there yelling and 
elbowing and screaming out questions. You watch; they're a very 
aggressive lot back there.

Possible Caribbean Visit

    Q. Mr. President, do you envision going to the Caribbean soon at all 
or doing the same kind of thing that you're doing in Central and South 
America?
    The President. Quizas, quizas.

President Duhalde of Argentina

    Q. Mr. President, are you going to see President Duhalde of 
Argentina, do you know? Is he on your schedule, do you know?
    The President. I don't know. Oh, you mean in Monterrey?
    Q. Yes, sir, on this trip.
    The President. I imagine I'll see him. We're having a dinner, 
leaders' dinner only, if I'm not mistaken.
    Q. Yes. A luncheon.
    The President. Luncheon. Almuerzo.
    Thank you all.

Note: The interview began at 3:30 p.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the 
White House. In his remarks, the President referred to President Vicente 
Fox of Mexico; President Alejandro Toledo of Peru; President Francisco 
Flores of El Salvador; President Andres Pastrana of Colombia; former 
President Alberto Fujimori of Peru and his adviser Vladimiro Montesinos; 
Prime Minister Jean Chretien of Canada; President Hugo Chavez of 
Venezuela; President Jose Maria Aznar of Spain; President Fidel Castro 
of Cuba; and President Eduardo Alberto Duhalde of Argentina. The 
President also referred to section 245(i) of the Immigration and 
Nationality Act, which expired April 30, 2001; AUC, the United Self-
Defense Forces/Group of Colombia; FARC, the Revolutionary Armed Forces 
of Colombia; and PAN, the National Action Party in Mexico. This 
interview was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on March 20. 
A tape was not available for verification of the content of this 
interview.