    [Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 36, Number 23 (Monday, June 12, 2000)]
    [Pages 1288-1295]
    [Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

    <R04>
    Interview With Aleksei Venediktov of Ekho Moskvy Radio in Moscow

    June 4, 2000

        Mr. Venediktov.  Good evening. Today we have a guest, the President
    of the United States of America. Good evening, Mr. President.
        The President.  Good evening.

    Russia-U.S. Relations

        Mr. Venediktov.  Right off the bat, I'd like to say that today we've
    already had a press conference, which our listeners could see you, and
    so for that reason, my questions will not be political in nature. Mostly
    listeners will be asking their questions.
        My first question is as follows, Mr. President. The latest public
    opinion poll in Russia by the Institute of--[inaudible]--had found that
    11 percent of Russians see an enemy in the United States. Another 11
    percent of Russians do not know how to answer this question. And 78
    percent of Russians believe that Russia is more of a friend, rather than
    an enemy. I would ask you, since just the ordinary people say this, as
    to the other 22 percent who feel that Russia is either an enemy or do
    not know how to answer the question, what would you be able to say
    directly to those people who are now listening to you and watching you?
        The President.  Well, first I would say the 78 percent are right.
    And I would say that the United States has tried to be a friend

    [[Page 1289]]

    to Russia and to democracy, prosperity, and strength in Russia.
        I have worked hard to help support Russian democracy, Russian
    economic reform, and a large role for Russia in the world. I supported
    Russia coming into the G-8, to the Asian-Pacific economic leaders group;
    having a special partnership with NATO; working on the ground, our
    troops, Russian troops, side by side in the Balkans. And I intend to
    support Russia's effort to get a program going with the International
    Monetary Fund, with the World Bank. I believe the world needs a strong
    and prosperous and democratic Russia that respects the rule of law and
    the differences among its people. And that's what I've worked for.
        So I have tried to be a good friend. And I think America wants
    friendly relations. The American people basically like the Russian
    people, and they feel better when they think we have good relations and
    that we have a good future together.
        Mr. Venediktov.  I believe, Mr. President, you are mistaken, because
    right in front of me is a Gallup poll from the United States, March of
    the year 2000, and the ``positive'' attitude towards Russia, or ``mostly
    positive,'' is only 40 percent of the American population; and ``mostly
    negative'' or ``very negative'' is 59 percent answers of the Americans
    who were polled. How could you explain to the Russians now why
    Americans, a significant part of the citizens, are negative towards
    United States? * Is it fear? Is it unhappiness? Are they angry, or what?
         *White House correction.
        The President.  I think it overwhelmingly is the opinion of the
    American people, and most people in the West, about the situation in
    Chechnya and the highly publicized other differences we have. But I
    think if you ask the American people another question, ``Would you like
    to see a good American relationship with a strong, prosperous,
    democratic Russia?''--they would say yes. And if you talk to the
    American people that have actually known Russians and you ask them, ``Do
    you like the Russian people?'' overwhelmingly, they would say yes.

    Joint Anti-Ballistic Missile System

        Mr. Venediktov.  I am finished with asking my questions, Mr.
    President. Now let's go to the questions that ordinary people have
    asked. Some questions came over the Internet--[inaudible]--from St.
    Petersburg--[inaudible]--from Moscow--and they basically all ask the
    same question. ``Why don't you want, together with Mr. Putin, together
    with Russia, to create a joint system of national anti-ballistic missile
    system? Why have not you accepted this proposal of''--these questions
    came before the press conference, but it does increase the fear among
    those people, doesn't it?
        The President.  Well, let me explain the issue here. And I don't
    want to take too long on any questions, because we want to answer as
    many as possible, but this is very important.
        First of all, I have no objection to working with Russia on a joint
    missile defense that would intercept a missile directed at Russia or the
    United States from a hostile power in the Middle East or anywhere else,
    in the so-called boost phase. I have no objection to doing that. I think
    we should work together on it. The problem is, we think it will take 10
    years or more to develop; the technology is not yet available.
        Now, by contrast, we expect to face this threat in the United States
    within 5 years, and we think the other technology for the limited
    national missile defense will be available within that time. So that's
    why I haven't agreed to scrap what seems to be a clear way of defending
    our country for an unclear way. But I think it's important that the
    Russian people and the American people understand the exact nature of
    the dispute here.
        Mr. Venediktov.  But it frightens Russians, obviously.
        The President.  Yes, I understand. But I think they won't be
    frightened if they understand the exact nature of the difference, even
    if we can't resolve the difference.
        The Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972 enshrined a theory of our
    security--that is, Russian security and American security--based on
    strategic stability and mutual deterrence. That is, we would never have
    so many defensive weapons, and we wouldn't have national missile
    defenses that could interfere

    [[Page 1290]]

    with our offensive weapons, so that neither of us would ever launch
    nuclear missiles at each other because of that. Okay.
        Now, we recognized that things might change and threats might come
    from other places, even way back then. So there was a possibility of
    amending the missile defense treaty. Now, we recognize--just today
    President Putin and I signed a statement of principles that said,
    ``Okay, there is a new threat; the treaty may be able to be amended, but
    we disagree right now on how to meet the threat.'' That's what we said.
        The narrow issue is this: If the U.S. has a missile defense that can
    stop a couple of missiles from North Korea, does it have the potential
    to upset what has kept us safe all these years, which is mutual
    deterrence and stability? We say, no; they say, the Russians say, it
    might. So we're trying to work through that.
        But the point is, neither side believes the other side is trying to
    hurt them directly. There is an honest difference of opinion here. And
    we closed some of the gaps in our two positions, and we promise to keep
    working on it.
        Believe me, I did not want to scrap the ABM Treaty or the theory of
    mutual deterrence or strategic stability. Both President Putin and I
    want to reduce the number of offensive missiles but keep the theory that
    has kept us safe all these years.
        Mr. Venediktov.  I think it's time to listen to some phone calls. I
    would like to say to Mr. President that now the Ekho program also is
    carrying out electronic voting, and at the end of our discussion, we'd
    like to comment you on what we get. The question that people are voting
    on is as follows: Will the situation under President Putin improve
    towards the United States or will it get worse or you don't know? So by
    the end of the program here we'll get some results.

    U.S. Economic Issues

        Hello, this is the first call. Please, what is your question to
    President Clinton? ``Do you think financial crisis is possible in the
    United States? Thank you. I guess the Russian crisis does not bother
    you, is not a concern to you. What about America? Is there an economic
    crisis possible in the United States?''
        The President.  Well, first of all, the Russian condition does
    concern me. I think when the Russian economy is healthier, the American
    economy will be healthier. And I intend to support the economic reform
    program that the President and the Prime Minister have outlined.
        I think a financial crisis is unlikely in the United States, as long
    as we have a good economic program, as long as we keep our budget in
    surplus, as long as we're continuing to open our markets and compete
    with other countries, and as long as we're investing in our people. If
    we have good policies and we work hard, I think a big financial crisis
    is unlikely.

    Political Satire

        Mr. Venediktov.  The next phone call. ``Have you ever seen the
    puppets program? Have you seen your own puppet? And how do you relate to
    the fact that there is a program such as this that lampoons
    Presidents?''
        The President.  I haven't seen it. Perhaps I can get it on tape and
    watch it; I would like to see it. But it doesn't bother me. I have been
    lampooned in America a lot. There is almost nothing anybody can say to
    make fun of me that hasn't been said already. And as long as it's said
    in good spirit and good humor, I don't mind. I think we need people to
    make fun of us so we don't take ourselves too seriously. And if it's not
    said in good spirits, then you just have to ignore it and go to work
    every day.

    Freedom of the Press

        Mr. Venediktov.  Okay, in that case, I have a question, Mr.
    President. It seems to me, despite the first amendment of the
    Constitution, any President of the United States, or Argentina or
    Russia, any other country, has a desire to kind of squash the press,
    which is not--that follows you all the time, looks for dirty stories, is
    always trying to hound you. Have you ever had a desire to shake a
    journalist real strong? And if you've had such feelings, how did you
    manage to control them? This is the main question. Of course, it refers
    to just about any--it could be asked for any President, any leader.

    [[Page 1291]]

        The President.  Well, of course, from time to time you read
    something that you believe is either untrue or unfair, or maybe you're
    afraid it is true, and you just wish it weren't printed. And you can get
    angry. But I think the important thing--in our country, for example, if
    you're a public figure, it's almost impossible to even win a lawsuit
    against somebody who's deliberately lying about you, because we have
    bent over backwards in favor of the freedom of the press.
        Now, why do we do that? Because we think that democracy is more
    stable and people are more free when the press is free. And we trust the
    people to understand if the press is either false or unfair. In other
    words--particularly in this electronic age, when someone says something
    about me that's not true, I can go on a program like this, and I can
    say, here's what they say; here's the truth. I can go on television. I
    can give a speech.
        So what we believe is that even though--if you have a really free
    press that much freedom can carry with it irresponsibility, you still
    have more stability in society by letting people be free, by letting the
    debates unfold, and by trusting that the citizens, the voters, in the
    end, will get it right.
        And we've had this first amendment for over 200 years now. And the
    press has become more and more and more free. The meaning of it has been
    broadened. And our country has gotten stronger and stronger. It can
    become personally painful if someone says something that maybe they
    shouldn't say, but the society is stronger with a free press. And if you
    trust the people, then you must believe that if something is said you
    don't agree with, you go out and disagree. You tell the people your
    side, and you trust them to make the right decision. That's what I
    believe gives you the strongest society.
        Mr. Venediktov.  Have you spoken to President Putin about freedom of
    the press in Russia?
        The President.  Yes, we had a discussion about it, and I said in my
    press conference today--I quoted his statement. President Putin said
    that without civil society and free press, the Russian democracy
    couldn't go on. And I think that's a wise statement.
        I also believe, though, that this is something that has to be
    debated and fought for and struggled for. For example, in the beginning
    of our democracy, around 1800, we had the same Constitution we have
    today. But there were--people could bring lawsuits against people who
    printed things in the newspapers, and often win in ways that intimidated
    them. So we had to keep changing the law to try to preserve the right
    for totally innocent private citizens to bring suit against people who
    might use the press to hurt them deliberately and to lie about them
    deliberately, while still allowing a very broad range for political
    debate and dispute and dissent.
        So we've been working on this a long time. But the trend has always
    been for more freedom of the press, particularly where public issues and
    public officials are concerned. And I think it's fair to say that no one
    in modern history in our country has had either more negative press or
    more painful press than I have, but I still think on balance as long as
    you get to answer, the people have a chance to get it right, and you get
    more stability, because an open press also ensures that all these issues
    are fully debated and that all sides are fully heard.
        So I believe it's an instrument of stability. And if you think it's
    not free enough here, then what I would urge you to do is to look at the
    example of America. Read the 200-year history of our country and just
    work on the issues as they come up. Just keep pushing for more--a
    broader and broader and broader interpretation of freedom of the press.
    But as I said, we've been working on it a long time. But it's served us
    well.
        Mr. Venediktov.  But you don't necessarily have to expel
    journalists. To tell you the truth, I have read the memoirs of your
    former Press Secretary, Mr. Stephanopoulos. You get upset, not do
    nothing, answer, or just let it go past you. Or you could ask the tax
    police, for example, to check on the business of CNN, or you could----
        The President.  Yes, but I never did that. I would never do that.
    And, first of all, it's now clearly illegal for a President to do that.
    It's not lawful. If you're mad at somebody, I think the thing to do is
    to express your anger, blow off steam, and go on about your business. Or
    even better, control your anger and think of a way to make sure the
    public

    [[Page 1292]]

    has the impression you believe is the right one.

    [At this point, the program paused for station identification.]

    International Monetary Fund

        Mr. Venediktov.  You're live on the air, hello? What is your
    question? ``I'd like to ask what kind of influence does the President
    have on the International Monetary Fund, and why is it not giving us
    credits? It seems that we have an economic uprise in our economy, and
    we're not getting any credits from the International Monetary Fund. I'd
    like to get an answer to this question. Why?''
        The President.  Well, first of all, the President can have some
    influence over the International Monetary Fund, but he doesn't run it.
    All the various contributors to the Fund have some influence. I have
    focused a lot on trying to reform the IMF, to make sure that its
    policies and practices meet the real needs of countries for the 21st
    century.
        Secondly, I do support Russia getting a program with the IMF and
    getting financial help from the IMF--your new President, Mr. Putin, and
    your new Prime Minister have come up with a very good plan, and when
    they go before the IMF and ask for financial support, the United States
    will support them. They're putting the plan together now; they're going
    to make the presentation. I expect to support it.

    Next Administration

        Mr. Venediktov.  Mr. President, I'd like to check to see how ready
    you are to quick questions, quick answers, we got over the Internet from
    Russia, all of Russia. These are private questions. You're a sports
    person, you know sports--are you ready to answer them?
        The President.  I'll do my best.
        Mr. Venediktov.  Mr. President, what kind of slogan would you put on
    the wall of the Oval Room for the next President?
        The President.  What should the next President's slogan be? Making
    the most of our prosperity, meeting the big challenges of the 21st
    century.

    President's Spending Money

        Mr. Venediktov.  How long has it been since you've held money in
    your hands, cash?
        The President.  About an hour.
        Mr. Venediktov.  What did you buy?
        The President.  Oh, I didn't buy anything, but I got my--I'm going
    to dinner after I leave you, and so I brought my money with me. But I
    try to go out and shop every--buy something every few months, anyway,
    just so I keep in touch with people. And I talk to people in bookstores,
    or I go buy something for my wife or my daughter, just to see what
    things cost and see what people are doing. I think it's important that
    Presidents not get too isolated.
        Mr. Venediktov.  A favorite question that we always ask on our radio
    station programs, Mr. President, do you remember how you made your first
    dollar, earned your first dollar, and how did you spend it?
        The President.  Well, I remember how I made it; I don't remember how
    I spent it. The first thing I did to earn money was cutting lawns and
    cutting hedges and taking care of the yards of the people who lived in
    my neighborhood. And I was probably about 9 or 10 years old when I did
    that.
        In my lifetime, I probably had earned money doing 20 or 25 different
    things. I've built houses. I've cleared land. I've worked in a grocery
    store. I had a news comic book business. Obviously, I was a musician. I
    made money as a musician. I've been a teacher. I've done a lot of
    different things in my life.

    Personal Transportation

        Mr. Venediktov.  This is a question from the city of--[inaudible].
    ``Mr. President, do you know how to drive a car, an airplane, a
    submarine, tank?'' Maybe President Putin has inspired this question.
        The President.  Yes, to the car, although I haven't driven one in a
    while. And, no, to the airplane. I have taken off and landed a small
    plane--25 years ago my wife gave me airplane lessons--but I never
    pursued it. I never got my pilot's license. And I have never--the
    submarine--I've ridden in a tank, but I've never driven a tank or guided
    a submarine.

    President's Family

        Mr. Venediktov.  Going back to the telephone questions, here's
    another question

    [[Page 1293]]

    from the Internet. ``What do you value in this life most of all?''
        The President.  My family, in this life.

    Post-Cold-War Russia

        Mr. Venediktov.  There will be other questions about your wife and
    your daughter. And now back to the telephones. Your question, please?
    Hello? You're live on the air. The question is as follows: In 1995 Mr.
    President spoke at a meeting of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And he very
    highly praised the role of the United States in the ideological efforts
    to make the Soviet Union fall apart. And the question was said about
    disassembling Russia, the falling apart of the military complex, and
    creating regimes in these republics, which we need, as he said. And so
    the question: How can you comment on that statement that you made at
    that time?
        The President.  Well, first of all, I wish I had exactly the words
    before me. But if I said that I thought the United States and its allies
    in the cold war, by staying strong, hastened the end of communism and
    the end of the Soviet Union and the liberation of all these various
    states and the rise of democracy--I believed that then; I still believe
    that.
        But that does not mean that I think Russia should be weak. I want
    Russia to be strong. I have worked for 8 years for a strong Russia. I
    want Russia to be strong and prosperous. But I also want it to be
    democratic, to respect the differences of its people--religious, ethnic,
    and otherwise--and to be governed by the rule of law.
        But I do not want a weak Russia. I want Russia to be strong. And I
    also want Russia, as I said just a couple of days ago in Germany, to
    have the ability to be fully part of all major international
    institutions and have its full say there.

    Russia's World Status

        Mr. Venediktov.  And in this connection, there is a question. ``Mr.
    President, could you frankly say for the United States today, is Russia
    a country of the Third World, a developing nation?''
        The President.  No. No. Russia was badly hurt by the recent economic
    crisis and by some problems in the transition from a command-and-control
    Communist economy to a market economy. You know the problems as well as
    I do. But it is a country with a vast and impressive array of science
    and technology achievements, incredibly well-educated people, and the
    capacity, I believe, to see a big growth in per capita income very
    quickly.
        So it's not fair to say that Russia is a developing or Third World
    country. It is fair to say, I think, that the incomes of the Russian
    people are far below where they should be and far below where they will
    be if the new government implements serious economic reforms and
    investors from around the world have confidence that their money will be
    treated in an appropriate way. I think you will see a large growth in
    jobs and incomes here, because your people are immensely talented. I
    think you've got good years ahead of you.
        Mr. Venediktov.  Since we don't have much time left, I would like to
    once again ask a quick-style question and expect that you could answer
    quickly. These, like I said, are private questions, private nature, from
    our listeners. Here's a question from one of our listeners--
    [inaudible]--who does the Soviet program, they're continuing a live
    broadcast of this show--maybe you remember, he set up an interview with
    you----
        The President.  Yes, he did.

    First Lady's Political Future

        Mr. Venediktov.  ``Some say the political career of Hillary Clinton
    will be so successful that she will become the President of the United
    States of America. Who knows? Are you ready to return to the White House
    as a husband of the President, being sort of the First Mister? How do
    you look at it?'' [Laughter]
        The President.  Well, let me say, first of all, I'm very proud of my
    wife for running for the Senate. She's running hard, and I think she'll
    win. And she's promised to serve her full term. Now, when she finishes
    that service, if she wants to continue in public life, I'll support her
    any way I can.
        But I expect that the Vice President, Al Gore, will be elected
    President. And I expect he'll run for reelection. And after that, who
    knows what will happen? But I'll say that I'm

    [[Page 1294]]

    very proud of my wife, and I'm going to support her political career any
    way I can. And I'm going to try to be a good citizen in any way that I
    can, both of my country and of the world, when I leave office.

    Chelsea Clinton

        Mr. Venediktov.  Mr. President, are you happy with your daughter,
    how she's studying, how she relates to her relatives, to her parents?
        The President.  Well, I think when you become the parent of a young
    man or a young woman, you're always happy when they still want to be
    around you and spend some time with you. So I'm very happy with her. I'm
    very proud of her, and I love her very much.
        Mr. Venediktov.  A Moscow student asks you to convey his greetings
    to her, and says that the growing generation will correct your
    mistakes--he and she will improve the mistakes of their parents.
        The President.  I certainly hope so. I certainly hope so. That's
    what's supposed to happen in life.

    President's View of Russia

        Mr. Venediktov.  And the last question--I'm asking this one. It's a
    poll, and I would like for you to comment on the results. Just before
    your visit, there were questions raised about you--not just about
    America but you, yourself. What do you think about Russia? That was a
    question to the Russians. I think the public have come up with very
    interesting results. One-third, exactly, feels that you, personally--
    you, not America but you, personally--feel that you're a positively
    disposed towards America. One-third, exactly, thinks that you are ill-
    disposed. And one-third thinks that they cannot answer this question. I
    would like Mr. President, by the end of our discussion agree to say
    something to the people who have doubts in you.
        The President.  Well, I think that I made it clear that I'm
    positively disposed toward Russia, but I understand why a third would
    question that. That is--why would you question that? Well, because we
    had differences between the United States and Russia over Bosnia,
    Kosovo, Chechnya.
        Mr. Venediktov.  By the way, there were many questions on Kosovo.
        The President.  Yes, yes.
        Mr. Venediktov.  Do you agree with the fact that there was a mistake
    made?
        The President.  So we had differences. But I would like to ask you
    to consider on the other side--I led the way in supporting Russia's
    entry into the G-8 organization, the prestigious international
    organization, into the Asian-Pacific leaders organization, into the
    special partnership agreement with NATO. I have supported every effort
    to help Russia economically. I have been here five times. No American
    President has ever been here five times to Moscow. I wouldn't be
    surprised if no American President ever comes here five times again.
        I first came to this city in 1969 when I was 23 years old. And I
    have been favorably disposed toward Russia and the Russian people ever
    since--notwithstanding our disagreements, even during the cold war.
        And one of the things that I have always tried to do is to help
    support a free, prosperous, strong Russia that is fully integrated into
    the international institutions and the Western institutions, so that
    tomorrow and in all of the tomorrows to come, you will be a great
    nation. But greatness will be defined not by the dominance of your
    neighbors but by the dominance of the achievement of your people and the
    power of your partnerships with other countries. That's what I want, and
    I've worked very hard for it.
        But I am extremely favorably disposed toward the people of Russia.
    And I am extremely optimistic about the future partnerships between the
    United States and Russia.
        Mr. Venediktov.  I thank you, Mr. President, for coming here. Of
    course, many questions have been left unasked. And I hope that after you
    return, after your term of office has ended, return back to Russia,
    perhaps even before that, you will be able to come back to the studio
    again, because I have many other questions. If you would allow, I would
    give all these questions to your staff and maybe some of them would
    interest you.
        The President.  Yes, do.

    [[Page 1295]]

    President Vladimir Putin of Russia

        Mr. Venediktov.  The last one. There were 5,000 of them that came
    in. You see the results. Forty-eight percent of the viewers--
    [inaudible]--believe that the relations between the United States and
    Russia will improve under Putin. Forty-two percent believe that they
    will get worse. And the rest don't know. What do you think about this
    last poll that we just made?
        The President.  Well, I think that it reflects, first of all, the
    fact that he's just in office, so people can't know for sure. Secondly,
    you've got almost 49 percent saying they will, which shows that people
    appreciate the fact that he's a strong and able man who has been
    gracious to me in this first meeting of ours in Russia. And then the 42
    percent, I think, are focused on the differences we've had and the
    problems that have been publicized.
        The truth is, you can't know for sure. But I think that based on the
    meeting I had, we've got a better than even chance that our relationship
    will improve. The relationship between the United States and Russia is
    profoundly important. It will tend always to be characterized by the
    disagreements, because they will always get more press coverage, because
    they will always be more current. But if there is a strong underlying
    commitment to democracy, to freedom, to mutual prosperity, mutual
    respect, I think that over time they will get better even if there are
    disagreements. That's what I believe, and that's what I've worked for.

    President's Return to Ekho Moskvy

        Mr. Venediktov.  Thank you very much, Mr. President. We will be
    waiting for your return, so that you could answer----
        The President.  I'd like to come back.
        Mr. Venediktov. ----by being in the studio some of the other
    questions, maybe as a businessman or a lawyer. Thank you very much.
        The President.  I'd love to come back, because I saw on your wall
    that the only way I get to sign my picture is if I come twice, you see.
    So I'd like to come back. And I want to thank all the people who called
    or who E-mailed in their questions. And I hope you will give me all the
    questions, and maybe I can write you something about them, too.

     Note:  The interview began at 7:50 p.m. in Ekho Moskvy Studios and was
    broadcast live. In his remarks, the President referred to Prime Minister
    Mikhail Kasyanov of Russia. Mr. Venediktov spoke in Russian, and his
    remarks were translated by an interpreter. A portion of this interview
    could not be verified because the tape was incomplete.