[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 36, Number 17 (Monday, May 1, 2000)]
[Pages 907-912]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
Interview With Leonardo DiCaprio for ABC News' ``Planet Earth 2000''

March 31, 2000

Climate Change

    Mr. DiCaprio. Mr. President, I want to thank you very much for your 
time. And as you know, I'm neither a politician nor a journalist, but 
being given the opportunity to sit down with you here and talk about an 
issue like global warming was an opportunity as a concerned citizen that 
I couldn't pass up.
    So my first question is, global warming is obviously a controversial 
topic among scientists and politicians. What is your understanding of 
what the effects of climate change will have on our future if 
preventative steps aren't taken immediately?
    The President.  Well, let me, first of all, thank you for your 
interest in this because I think it's important that we get citizens 
more involved in it; and secondly say, I don't think it's all that 
controversial a topic among scientists. There are a few who say that 
it's not proven, but we know that the hottest years in recorded history, 
and certainly in the last 600 years, that 9 of the hottest 11 years have 
occurred in the last decade.
    So, the climate is changing, and the globe is warming at an 
unsustainable rate. And if it is not slowed and ultimately reversed, 
what will happen is, the polar ice caps will melt more rapidly; sea 
levels will rise; you will have the danger of flooding in places like 
the precious Florida Everglades or the sugarcane fields of Louisiana; 
island nations could literally be buried. The whole climate of the 
United States, for example, could be changed where you would have more 
flooding, more heat waves, more storms, more extreme weather events 
generally.
    And then you'll have some public health consequences. For example, 
we're already seeing in Africa, for example, malaria being found at 
higher and higher altitudes where it used to be too cool for the 
mosquitoes.
    So there will be a lot of very bad, more dramatic weather events. 
There will be a shift in the patterns of agricultural production. There 
will be flooding that will be quite bad, and there will be more public 
health crises.

Raising Public Awareness

    Mr. DiCaprio. While growing up, I always felt that environmental 
issues were constantly overlooked, and I watched people band together 
for various causes which seemed to come and go, and it was almost like 
they were going in and out of style. So how do we take a misunderstood 
issue like climate change and not only raise awareness but make its 
prevention an ongoing commitment?
    The President.  Well, I think we have to make climate change a local 
and a personal matter in the same way other successful environmental 
issues are. You know, since I've been here, we've been able to 
strengthen the quality of our air, strengthen the quality of our water. 
We've set aside more land for protection and protected forests than 
virtually any administration in history, except those of the two 
Roosevelts, because they were things people could understand and 
identify with, and they knew how to advocate for, and they understood 
the benefits.
    So I think we have to bring this down to practical applications and 
convince people that they can do something about it, number one; and 
number two, we have to talk about the first question you asked me--what 
the consequences of not doing anything.
    But there's so much we can do. We started a project here at the 
White House called the Greening of the White House. Just by changing the 
lighting in this whole building, we lowered our electric bills by 
$100,000 a year. Then we put in a different sort of roofing system which 
kept out more heat and cold. Then we put in a more energy-efficient 
heating system and water system. We brought more energy-efficient 
equipment--copiers, computers--all with the Energy Star label, which is 
a totally voluntary thing the Department of Energy provides.
    Now, these are things that businesses all across America could be 
doing. They're things that homes all across America could be doing. 
We've worked with the Home Builders to help build lower cost housing 
that will cut energy use by 50 percent. There's one housing development 
built in the Inland Empire out in southern California, east of L.A., for 
lower income working people where the average utility bills are 65 
percent lower

[[Page 908]]

than in houses of comparable size in the rest of California--just by 
putting the most modern, thin solar panels on the roofs, by having 
sensible insulation, by having energy-efficient lighting, and by taking 
new windows that let in more light and keep out more heat and cold.
    These things are out there now, and I think when people know there's 
actually something they can do, as well as what the consequences of our 
not acting and not pushing Congress and other countries to act are, then 
I think you'll see action

Energy-Efficiency Incentives

    Mr. DiCaprio.  Well, my other question pertaining to that is, if 
there was a profit incentive there, would that make us pay more 
attention?
    The President.  Yes, there should be more of a profit incentive. I 
mean, right now, for example, if you take the most energy-efficient 
lighting, it costs you more now, up front, but it lasts so much longer, 
eventually you turn a profit. And this is true in many processes in all 
the energy fields.
    So what I have proposed to the Congress is that we do basically two 
things. First of all, we give significant tax breaks to consumers to buy 
energy-efficient products of all kinds, and that we also give tax breaks 
for people to manufacture and develop them. And then, that we spend more 
money on research, like the project we've had that the Vice President 
headed for new generation vehicles, that we work with the auto companies 
and the autoworkers union to develop more energy-efficient vehicles and 
to develop alternative forms of fuel, including biofuels, which could 
dramatically change the whole future with regard to the greenhouse gases 
we've put into the atmosphere.
    So there's a lot more we can do, and we ought to provide tax 
incentives to the private sector to help us. But what I want to drive 
home is that right now it is no longer necessary in order to grow our 
economy to put more greenhouse gases, which cause global warming, into 
the atmosphere. You don't have to burn more oil and coal to get richer 
now. Not in America; not anywhere else.

International Cooperation

    Mr. DiCaprio.  Now, in Kyoto, in the 1997 Global Conference on 
Climate Change, it asked industrialized countries to drastically reduce 
their greenhouse gas emissions. And when we tried to enforce such 
protocols in developing countries, they came right back to us and said 
that the U.S. is responsible for a quarter of the greenhouse gases that 
are going into the atmosphere. How can we not practice what we preach?
    The President.  Well first, I think we should practice what we 
preach. And that's why I think it's so important that the Congress pass 
the budget that I recommended that would dramatically increase our 
investment in developing the kinds of technologies and alternative fuels 
that would cut our greenhouse gas emissions.
    But I also believe that we have a big stake in working with other 
countries to convince them that they, too, can grow without increasing 
greenhouse gas emissions. For example, no matter how much we cut 
emissions in the United States, since this is a global problem, unless 
we also get China and India and the countries that have the big rain 
forests to work with us, we're going to be in real trouble.
    So, for example, when I was in Bangladesh recently, I announced a 
debt-for-nature swap that we were going to help finance with them. I 
signed a bill to do the same thing with the South American rain forest 
last year. In India, we signed an agreement by which they committed that 
as they continue to grow and need more power, that they'll have more and 
more coming from natural and renewable sources in the future, so that we 
can work together, because it is a global problem.
    But we should lead the way. And since we have already so much 
technology, and since, as I've just explained, just with these minor 
things we cut the power bills here at the White House by $100,000, and 
we're going to do it across the Federal Government. If the Federal 
Government alone will do what we did at the White House, we'll save $750 
million a year, and it will be the equivalent in terms of greenhouse 
gases and climate change of taking 1.7 million cars off the road. We 
should be doing that.

[[Page 909]]

    But we should also work with other countries. I tell other 
countries, the developing countries, I'm not asking you to give up your 
growth; I'm not asking you to give jobs up. I'm asking you to pursue a 
different pattern of energy use, which will give you more growth, more 
jobs, and a healthier population over the long run. So I think this 
really is a win-win issue here. This is not the way it used to be 30, 40 
years ago. You can grow an economy and use less energy if you do it 
right.

Raising Public Awareness

    Mr. DiCaprio.  Why do you think this issue is so constantly 
overlooked, and why do you think people don't take it seriously enough? 
And for you, is it as important as something like health care or 
education?
    The President.  Oh yes, over the long run, it's one of the two or 
three major issues facing the world over the next 30 years. I think it's 
because it takes a long time for the climate to change in a way that 
people feel it, and because it seems sort of abstract now. That's why I 
think it's important that programs like this are aired, and people like 
you--not politicians or scientific experts but citizens--express their 
concern.
    And then it's important that citizens know that it ought to be an 
issue; it ought to be a voting issue at election time. And I don't say 
this in a hateful way. It's just that people need to tell the 
politicians and the candidates they care about this; they want action. 
But our citizens need to follow the lead of a lot of our religious 
groups and other civic groups in actually doing things themselves.
    Right now, if the American people knew all the options that are 
available to them and understood the economics, we could do much better. 
And of course, if my plan were to pass the Congress and we were to give 
the tax breaks to consumers and manufacturers of these products and 
technologies, we could do it even faster.

Energy-Efficiency Incentives

    Mr. DiCaprio. Now, the major polluters are obviously the big 
industries, such as the oil companies, who are one of the most powerful 
lobbies in the world. How do we convince them to change the way they've 
been doing business for the last century?
    The President.  Well, for one thing, oil is a depleting resource, 
and I think that oil companies and coal companies should be given 
incentives to become energy companies and to promote energy efficiency 
so that the oil they have will last longer and provide them a more 
steady stream of income, and so that they can develop other ways of 
earning money. They should become--they should think of themselves as 
energy companies, not oil companies.
    And if you look at the record, starting with British Petroleum and 
its leader, some members of the oil industry are beginning to come over 
to support action on climate change. Some leaders of the auto industry 
are beginning to come over and support action on climate change. They 
understand that this is real and that when these gases get up in the 
atmosphere, it takes at least 50 years for them to dissipate.
    So we need to begin now a disciplined effort, which will be good for 
our economy. I will say again, this is good for the American economy and 
good for public health. We need to do this, and if we did it from today 
until the time you're my age, we'd be a much wealthier country, a much 
healthier country. And with that kind of effort over that length of 
time, we could head off this crisis.
    Mr. DiCaprio. How do we get power companies to replace their coal 
plants with cleaner technologies? And why don't we make it so expensive 
for power companies to keep their old coal plants that they have to 
invest in cleaner fuels?
    The President.  Well, I think you can do it in two or three ways. I 
think, first of all, it's important to have very rigorous clean air 
standards. And I think it's important also to provide them the tax 
incentives they need to move as quickly as possible to alternative 
energy sources.
    A lot of the most enlightened utilities in America also see 
conservation itself as an energy source, PG&E in California, for 
example. But other utilities have understood that our inefficient 
patterns of using electricity are pressing them to use more traditional 
energy and emit more greenhouse gases and warm the climate.

[[Page 910]]

    So I think what we should do is to have a system where we finance 
not only the conversion to alternative energy, but also looking at 
conservation itself as a form of energy. When you save, you do the same 
amount of work with less energy, and it's like creating more energy in a 
totally clean way. And I think that we should be financing those things 
in part with tax breaks from the American Government. And I've pushed 
for that, and I will continue to do so.

Energy Research

    Mr. DiCaprio. Now, you've enacted tax credits for people who want to 
buy electric and fuel-cell vehicles. What are we doing to encourage oil 
companies to research alternative fuel technologies like fuel cells?
    The President.  Well, I want to give tax credits to them, too, to 
make it easier for them to spend money on that kind of research. And we 
are doing a lot of the basic research in the Government. The work, for 
example, we did with the auto companies on developing fuel cells, on 
developing a dual-fuel electricity and gas engines----
    Mr. DiCaprio. A hybrid vehicle.
    The President. ----hybrid vehicles--the work that we've done to try 
to help them develop cars that run on electricity, but where the 
electricity regenerates, the capacity regenerates so they don't have to 
pull in every 80 miles and juice up the battery again, and a lot of the 
research we're doing through the Agriculture Department in biofuels--all 
these things I think are very important. As we do more of that research, 
the basic research, we then make it more cost effective for the energy 
companies and for the auto companies to take that basic research and 
quickly convert it into commercially viable research to develop 
products.
    So I think our research at the national level should increase as 
well. I think it's very, very important that the Federal Government do 
that. You know, to get out of the energy context, the Internet basically 
began as a federally funded research project. So a lot of the things we 
take for granted today in the private sector began with a heavy 
investment of basic research from the National Government. And I think 
we're still at a point where the National Government should be doing a 
lot of this basic research. I'll just give you one example.
    If we could--suppose we get cars that will get 70 miles to the 
gallon, 80 miles to the gallon. And then suppose they can run on clean 
biofuels that don't have any greenhouse gas emissions, instead of 
gasoline. Now, what's the problem today? The problem today is it takes 
about 7 gallons of gasoline to produce 8 gallons of ethanol or other 
biofuel. So the researchers today are working on a chemical breakthrough 
which would permit you to produce 8 gallons of biofuel with 1 gallon of 
gasoline. If you did that, if you improve the ratio 8 to 1, and you had 
a car getting 70 miles to the gallon, it would be like getting 500 miles 
to the gallon of gasoline in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.
    Then the whole future of the world would be different. I mean, this 
whole issue would be radically different. And then Americans, simply by 
buying fuel that would be cost effective, could whip this problem. And 
we're on the verge of those kinds of breakthroughs, but we need the 
energy companies to think of themselves as that--not oil and coal but 
energy; we need the auto companies to keep supporting the work of 
combating global warming, not pretending it doesn't exist, and many of 
them are today; and we need more action from ordinary citizens, smaller 
businesses, and the Government to promote energy conservation and 
alternative energy sources.
    But again I say, this is not a problem that requires big taxes, big 
regulation, and slow economic growth. It is no longer necessary--in the 
information economy, with the dramatic scientific breakthroughs already 
made, we can grow economies faster by conserving energy rather than 
burning it up. And that's what people don't yet believe. That's the real 
big debate out there. If we can get people to really believe that we 
could have a great future using less energy, not more--traditional 
energy, I mean--then we'd have the battle half won.
    And maybe that will come out of this program. Because there's 
nothing so dangerous to society than being in the grip of a big idea 
that isn't true anymore. And it is just no longer true that for America 
or India or China or Latin America or any other place

[[Page 911]]

to grow wealthy, they have to put more greenhouse gases in the 
atmosphere by burning up more coal and oil. That's just not true 
anymore. And so we have to show people that that's not true, and show 
them how they can make a difference, and then keep making these products 
and technologies available so that it becomes easier and easier and 
easier to do what is not only the right thing environmentally but the 
right thing for our long-term economic and public health purposes

Fuel Efficient Transportation

    Mr. DiCaprio. Many people have said in the past that the American 
dream was to buy a car and live in the suburbs. But it has created 
massive problems that have made us more reliant on our cars. Since it is 
so difficult for us to convince people to use mass transportation, how 
can we promote hybrid vehicles and convince people to give up their 
SUV's? For instance, if it only costs $575 a car to make them cleaner, 
why can't you make it a law, like seatbelts?
    The President.  Well, I'm not sure that it only costs $575 to make 
them cleaner in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. But let me say what I 
think ought to be done. I think--first of all, I think if these SUV's 
are going to be sustainable over the long run, they also are going to 
have to become much more fuel-efficient and be able to run on 
alternative fuels. And I think the American people would pay a little 
more if they would do that. And the auto companies for the first time 
have said now that they want to bring in the SUV's and their other less 
efficient vehicles into this sort of new energy future that we're trying 
to build.
    Secondly, I think that people will take mass transit more if it 
works better. I've worked very hard to support more investments in mass 
transit to make it more convenient and faster, including more high-speed 
rail. And I still believe that as our urban areas become more and more 
populated and traffic becomes more congested, quite apart from pollution 
in the air, if we can have clean, efficient, and fast mass transit, 
people will begin to take it more and more and more--because they can do 
other things. They're not wasting so much time if they're riding the 
train.
    So I'm hopeful that you will see that. I very much hope that we will 
continue to develop mass transit alternatives, and I believe they will 
become much more popular with people, especially in the highly populated 
areas. But we can't stop the development of fuel efficiency because a 
lot of our people live in rural areas and drive a long way to work, and 
that's not going to change anytime soon.

Environmental Standards

    Mr. DiCaprio. Now, Louisiana is the second largest consumer of 
fossil fuels and the city most at risk for sea level rise. Can't 
something be done, like in Atlanta, where the Government withheld 
highway funds, making it the model city for environmental 
responsibility?
    The President.  Yes, we can. But under the law, we can only withhold 
these highway funds if the air pollution of a given metropolitan area is 
so high and they haven't done anything about it, anything else about it. 
Then we can withhold the highway funds. They have to come up with an 
alternative program, which usually involves mass transit or carpooling 
or some other means to reduce air pollution, and in this case, also to 
reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    And I'm sorry to say I don't know exactly the answer to your 
question, but it may be that for other reasons, New Orleans is in full 
compliance with the Federal laws on air pollution. I'll just have to 
look and see.
    But we've tried to do that in more than one other place, to use the 
obligation of a city, a big metropolitan area, to have clean air to 
promote the development of alternative energy technologies and 
alternative travel patterns. And I do think that environmental standards 
can be used that way.
    In other words, instead of telling people we're going to shut you 
down, or imposing big, heavy, complicated regulations, say, ``Here's the 
standard; if you want the money, meet the standard.'' And then, in 
Atlanta, they figured out something to do that was very good for the 
environment, and they got their money.

[[Page 912]]

Citizen Involvement

    Mr. DiCaprio. Now, I'm sure you've heard so many reports from 
scientists and politicians and citizens. What do you think the best 
course for American citizens is within the next 20 years as far as 
helping the environment is concerned?
    The President.  Well, the biggest global problem by far on the 
environment is global warming. The biggest problem in many developing 
countries right now is safe water. We still have huge numbers of 
children dying from diarrhea and other related diseases and problems 
because they don't have safe water. And there are local air pollution 
problems that are horrible in various places.
    But internationally, the biggest problem is global warming. And I 
think the most important thing we can do is, every citizen must first 
understand that he or she can do something about this, and it won't 
bankrupt them. They should have their homes, their cars, their 
businesses, everything they do should be oriented toward energy 
efficiency and alternative energy technologies. And then they should 
make this one of the issues that has to be discussed by public officials 
running for office at every level. This has to become not just an issue 
that we talk about once a year on Earth Day but an issue that is debated 
along with health care and education and national security and other 
issues at every election.
    You know, I was fortunate when I asked Vice President Gore to join 
me in 1992 that he had written a book on this, that he was interested in 
it. He talked to me about it. And so we just, on our own initiative, 
have done a lot of these things. But we could have had a whole 
environmental agenda and not dealt with this really very much. And then 
we had Kyoto, which we strongly supported, the Kyoto Protocol. But this 
needs to become an issue for every public official. It needs to become a 
matter of citizen debate.
    So I think citizen action, and then citizens as voters turning it 
into a political issue, in the very finest sense--those are the things 
that I think need to be done right now and for the next several years to 
get America on the right track.
    Mr. DiCaprio. Do you think we can eventually become a role model?
    The President.  Absolutely. We should become a role model because, 
just as we've led the world in information technology with the 
development of the Internet and digital technology of all kinds, we have 
the technology here. And there's no excuse for not implementing it 
comprehensively and quickly in every American community. And there's no 
excuse for not making it available at an affordable price to every 
American family.
    So if we take this on the way we did the Industrial Revolution, the 
way we did the information technology revolution, there will be an 
energy revolution in the 21st century that will save the planet and 
actually increase health and wealth. That will be one--I predict to you 
that will be one of the great stories of the 21st century, that there 
was a dramatic revolution in work caused by a change in the source of 
energy, in the level of conservation, and in the availability of 
technologies that just weren't there before.
    Mr. DiCaprio. I hope so. Thank you very much for your time. I 
appreciate it.
    The President.  Thank you.

Note: The interview was taped at approximately 1 p.m. on the Oval Office 
Patio at the White House for broadcast on the evening of April 22. This 
transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on April 
23. A tape was not available for verification of the content of this 
interview.