[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents Volume 35, Number 48 (Monday, December 6, 1999)]
[Pages 2503-2506]
[Online from the Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

<R04>
Telephone Interview With Mark Little of RTE and Steve Grimason of the 
BBC From Seattle

December 2, 1999

President's Possible Visit to Belfast

    Mr. Grimason. First of all, Mr. President, thank you very much for 
joining us. There has been some speculation that with things again 
moving in the peace process, you may actually be considering making a 
return trip to Belfast--and we could say that it's safer than Seattle.
    The President.  [Laughter] Yes, Seattle, the new home of the 
Troubles.
    Well, let me say this. First of all, I am elated about today's 
events. They are truly historic. Now the people in Northern Ireland have 
the authority and the power to work together and to shape their own 
future, and it's wonderful. And you know how much I love to come there, 
and I would come at the drop of a hat if there is some contribution I 
can make to the ongoing peace process and the work still to be done. 
I've told George Mitchell that. I've told Bertie Ahern that, and I've 
told Tony Blair that. And obviously, the parties know that. All the 
others know that I would do that. But I have not made a decision to come 
right now.

Decommissioning of Arms

    Mr. Little. If I could ask you, it seems unfortunately, with every 
victory in the peace process, there are sometimes the seeds of the next 
crisis, and we have the Ulster Unionist Council coming back in February 
to consider progress on decommissioning. Are you concerned that the 
historic development we see today could be collapsed in February? And do 
you agree with the Republicans who say, this is Unionists setting a new 
deadline which is not in the Good Friday agreement?
    The President. Well, I agree with George Mitchell's assessment that 
decommissioning is an essential element of the Good Friday accord, and 
it has to be achieved in the overall implementation of the agreement. 
All parties have a collective responsibility here, and I think what we 
should do is to give the agreed-upon process the chance to work. I have 
great confidence in General de Chastelain. I believe the parties have 
great confidence in him. And I don't think you can underestimate the 
terrific importance of the IRA naming its representative to General de 
Chastelain's commission, and I hope they do that today. And the 
Loyalists should do the same.
    And all of us on the outside, rather than speculating on this day 
about what might happen bad, I think we've got a roadmap for the future. 
We've got a process, and we've got a commission with a leader that the 
parties respect, and I think we ought to give it a chance to work.

  

Ulster Unionists Deadline

    Mr. Grimason. The problem that we have had with last weekend's 
events, although today's events are genuinely historic, is that the 
Ulster Unionists under David Trimble do--have set effectively a 
deadline. And if by February there is no decommissioning, they will 
return and all the signs are that they could bring all of this work 
down.
    The President. Well, let me say first of all, you know, I've always 
tried to help. I've done everything I could to help, and I've worked 
with David Trimble and his people and with Gerry Adams and the Sinn Fein 
and with John Hume and Seamus Mallon. And I think on this day the most 
important thing I should say is to ask people to focus on what they have 
all agreed on. And what they have all agreed on is to give the de 
Chastelain commission a chance to work and to participate in that. As 
long as that is out there, I think it would be a mistake for me, as a 
friend of the peace process and the people of Ireland and as the 
President, to do anything that could in any way complicate that. Let's 
give it a chance to work and find a way forward.

[[Page 2504]]

Impact of Cooperation

    Mr. Little. Mr. President, you know that there are a significant 
proportion of Unionists who do not want to see Sinn Fein in government 
without some form of decommissioning by the IRA. Do you think the IRA 
have done enough to persuade that group of Unionists? Is it time they 
set a deadline for themselves for decommissioning, and is it time they 
said the war is actually over, the day of the bomb and the bullet is 
gone?
    The President. Well, I believe if in fact the IRA names its 
representatives to the de Chastelain commission, I think that will be a 
pretty good signal that we're all moving in the right direction and that 
all parties recognize the truly historic nature of this day. And I think 
that a lot of people had to make a lot of compromises to get us to this 
day and to make the political changes necessary to reflect the plain 
will of the voters in both communities in Northern Ireland.
    And let me say, I think you'll see more movement in the right 
direction--if none of us and none of them do anything that makes it any 
harder than it is already. So I'm quite hopeful, actually.
    And let me say this--I can only tell you this from my experience in 
other parts of the world as well--I think that there will be an 
intrinsic benefit to all the parties being in the Government and working 
together and seeing each other and finding out how many things they 
actually agree on. I mean, there's really not a Republican or a Unionist 
way to figure out whether the economy is growing or there's adequate 
infrastructure. And they both have a common stake in having an excellent 
education for their children.
    And I wouldn't minimize what I think will be the surprising amount 
of commonality they will find with one another as they assume the jobs 
they have. I mean, if you just look at the names of the portfolios the 
ministers have, and ask yourself, in how many of these areas could there 
legitimately be real differences? And won't the commonalities dwarf the 
differences? So I think the very process of being in this Government 
together, in the executive as well as the parliamentary branch, is very, 
very important. And I think it will have a terrifically positive impact 
that will begin, I think, today, and go forward.

President's Analogy

    Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, you recently and rather famously 
described the two sides here as like drunks in a bar who always have to 
have one more round. A lot of people--you got some criticism, but a lot 
of people here said you were actually right to draw that analogy. Are 
these people, in your view, ready to go on the Government wagon?
    The President. Yes, I think they are. I did get a lot of criticism, 
and I probably deserved some of it, because I didn't mean to be making 
an ethnic slur. Though what I pointed out is, when people have deeply 
ingrained habits, you know, even if they're bad habits, they're hard to 
let go of, because you're sort of leaping out into the unknown, and it's 
a little frightening. And so maybe I should have used a different 
analogy, but I think that point, the general point, is quite valid.
    And they're in the Government now, and they're in there together, 
which means--they're all saying, ``Okay we let go a little.'' They let 
go of something to come together. And I think that is, to me, an 
enormously positive sign.
    And so I think that, if the analogy was good at one time, it's less 
good today than it was, just because they've stood up a government 
together.

Legacy of Peace Initiatives

    Mr. Little. Mr. President, you've been leader of the free world, 
some would say, in very turbulent times. And you have confronted issues 
of vital importance to America's national interest. When they write the 
history books, where does Northern Ireland figure in your legacy?
    The President. Well, first of all, I think the credit goes primarily 
to the people and the leaders of Northern Ireland and to the leaders of 
Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland and, obviously, to George 
Mitchell for the role he played.
    But I do think that the interest that the United States has had in 
this and the plain commitment we've had to it during my Presidency has 
made some difference. I hope it has. And all I can tell you is that to 
me, I

[[Page 2505]]

think it's very important. And I think it has enormous significance 
beyond the borders of the six counties and the Republic. I think the 
significance around the world is huge.
    For example, I just met with the leaders of all the parties in 
Kosovo. I was in Kosovo, you know, and it's a place that the United 
States and Great Britain, frankly, took the lead in getting our NATO 
Allies together to stop a horrible example of ethnic and religious 
hatred and cleansing. And we had all these parties back together, and 
their wounds are much fresher and of a great magnitude.
    And I could talk to them about the Irish peace process. And I could 
look them in the eye and say, ``You know, you can do this, too. And 
sooner or later, you're going to have to do it. So you ought to do it.''
    We're entering a very critical phase of the Middle East peace 
process, where extremely difficult decisions have to be made, that are 
not the same as the kind of decisions that have to be made here. But it 
gives courage to the proponents of peace in a place like the Middle East 
to know that the Troubles could be laid down, and people could be 
reconciled and work together.
    So you know, to me it's a big part of the legacy of all the 
peacemakers of the world in this decade who were involved in it, and I 
am very proud and honored that I had a chance to be a part of it.

Impact of Irish Peace Process

    Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, could I ask you, the importance of the 
Northern Ireland peace process, could it be said that it will be the 
first really truly--if it works, the first really truly genuine conflict 
resolution in the sense that neither side will have won? Frequently, we 
have things ending with people winning or with a transference of power. 
Will it have that effect in a world sense?
    The President. Yes, except I would use a different word. I think you 
can say that in many ways it is the first true conflict resolution. But 
instead of saying neither side won, I would say both sides won. And I 
think that if they didn't think they were winning, they would not have 
done this.
    And I think when you look at the fact that the biggest problem in 
the world today are these conflicts over racial, ethnic, and religious 
differences sweeping the world, the fact that you have set a model here 
for reconciliation in what has often been a violent and always been a 
deeply historically embedded struggle, is a profound significance, 
because this element of people fearing and distrusting and then hating 
and dehumanizing those who are different from them is at the heart of 
the problem in the Middle East, the problems in the Balkans, the tribal 
wars in Africa. You just see it all over the world.
    And so I think the people of Northern Ireland and their friends in 
the Irish Republic, who voted for the necessary changes to implement the 
Good Friday accord, and in Great Britain--they should know that what 
they have done is given enormous support and heart to people who are 
still struggling in very difficult circumstances everywhere in the 
world. It's just--I can't tell you how important I think it is.
    You should have seen the look on the people's faces in Kosovo, the 
party leaders, who are still so fresh from their struggles, when I just 
was, in effect, hammering them with the decisions that the people and 
the leaders in Northern Ireland had made and the kind of accommodation 
that they had made to one another and how sooner or later people who 
shared the same piece of land had to work through--not necessarily 
identical decisions but the same sorts of decisions in the same sort of 
way. So it is a matter of truly historic proportions--not because nobody 
won, but because everybody won.

End of Ireland's Claim on Ulster

    Mr. Little. Sir, today the Irish Republic did give up a very 
tangible expression of its identity, as it says, its right to have 
control over those six counties in Northern Ireland. Some Republicans 
will say they've given up a birthright today. What do you say to them?
    The President. I would say to them, they gave up something quite 
significant, but they gave it up to the principle of democracy, of 
majority rule--the principle of consent, in the words that you have used 
there--and that in return they got not only peace but the chance for 
guaranteed representation, a guaranteed voice in their own affairs 
immediately, and a guaranteed role in shaping their children's future.

[[Page 2506]]

    So I think the Irish Republic did a noble thing here. And they 
ennobled the people who agree with them and who still support the 
concept of a united Ireland, because they gave them the only chance they 
could ever have to achieve their dreams, and even more importantly, they 
gave them the only chance they could have to have a full life along the 
way.
    The principle of consent and shared decisionmaking and guaranteed 
representation and now a renewed focus on the real challenges that real 
people face every day--I think it was a fine bargain, and a noble one.
    Mr. Little. Thank you, Mr. President.
    Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, thank you very much. We hope you are 
here soon.
    The President. Thank you.
    Mr. Little. Maybe for the turning on of the Christmas lights, we'll 
be there. [Laughter]
    The President. You know, if it were up to me, I'd come once every 
two weeks. [Laughter]
    Thank you.

Note: The interview began at 10:55 a.m. from the supervisor's office at 
the King's County International Airport at Boeing Field. In his remarks, 
the President referred to former Senator George J. Mitchell, who chaired 
the Multiparty talks in Northern Ireland; Prime Minister John Bruton of 
Ireland; Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom; Gen. John de 
Chastelain, Canadian Defense Forces, chair, Independent International 
Commission on Decommissioning; Ulster Unionist Party leader David 
Trimble; Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams; John Hume and Seamus Mallon, 
members, Social Democratic and Labor Party. A tape was not available for 
verification of the content of this interview.