    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book II)]
    [August 11, 2008]
    [Pages 1134-1137]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Bob Costas of NBC Sports in
    Beijing
    August 11, 2008

    2008 Beijing Olympics

        Mr. Costas. All right, Al, we thank you. In a few minutes, we'll
    have more of the women's team qualifying from Sunday afternoon here in
    Beijing. But now, live, we're joined by President George W. Bush, who
    has been at these games since the opening ceremony.
        You saw the opening ceremony. You've seen Michael Phelps and company
    at the pool. You went to beach volleyball, the USA's win over China in
    basketball last night. What are your impressions so far?
        The President. First of all, I think the Chinese are being great
    hosts. The venues are fantastic. And our team's fired up, and so am I.
    I'm excited to be here. It's such a thrill to watch our men and women
    compete.

    U.S. Olympic Men's Basketball Team

        Mr. Costas. You met with the ballplayers before the basketball game
    last night.
        The President. I did. [Laughter]
        Mr. Costas. What was their response to you?
        The President. Their response was--well, first of all, obviously,
    these are great stars. And their response was, ``Thanks for coming. We
    are really, really honored to represent America.'' And I was impressed
    by them. And of course, they go out and put on a great performance.

    China-U.S. Relations

        Mr. Costas. And winning 101 to 70. All right, our time here is
    limited. We'll get to as much as we can.
        The President. Okay.
        Mr. Costas. The opening ceremonies were glorious. There's much to
    admire about China's people, China's culture, and its present
    accomplishments. But this remains an authoritarian state----
        The President. That's true.
        Mr. Costas. ----with an abysmal human rights record. In the long
    run, is China's rise irreconcilable with America's interests?
        The President. No. In the long run, America better remain engaged
    with China and understand that we can have a cooperative and
    constructive, yet candid, relationship. It's really important for future
    Presidents to understand the relationship between China and the region,
    and it's important to make sure that America is engaged with China, even
    though we may have some disagreements.

    China-U.S. Relations/U.S. Foreign Policy

        Mr. Costas. You met with President Hu Jintao, not just at the
    opening ceremony----
        The President. Right.
        Mr. Costas. ----but privately since then. Did you press him on the
    full array of American concerns: human rights; press freedom; Tibet;
    China's support of rogue regimes like Sudan and Myanmar?
        The President. Yes--and North Korea and Iran.
        Mr. Costas. It was all on the table?
        The President. Oh, absolutely, every time, every time. And you got
    to understand something, Bob, I don't need the Olympics to advance
    America's agenda. I've met with Hu Jintao a lot
    since I have been the President. And yes, I had a full range--hey,

    [[Page 1135]]

    listen, we agree with them on a lot of things, and we disagree with them
    on things. And that's the way the relationship is going to be. It needs
    to be, as I mentioned, constructive and cooperative.

    U.S. Foreign Policy

        Mr. Costas. This past week, you restated America's fundamental
    differences with China.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. But given China's growing strength and America's own
    problems, realistically how much leverage and influence does the U.S.
    have here?
        The President. First of all, I don't see America having problems. I
    see America as a nation that is a world leader, that has got great
    values. And leverage is--I don't think you should look at the
    relationship as one of leverage. I think you ought to look at the
    relationship of one of constructive engagement where you can find common
    areas, like North Korea and Iran, but also be in a position where they
    respect you enough to listen to your views on religious freedom and
    political liberty.

    2008 Beijing Olympics/China

        Mr. Costas. If these Olympics are as successful as they are shaping
    up to be, most people believe this only further legitimizes the ruling
    party in the minds of most Chinese----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. ----citizens. And even absent true liberty as we
    understand it, the lives of hundreds of millions of Chinese people are
    much better than they once were. Therefore, what's the party's incentive
    to reform?
        The President. Well, first of all, if you're a religious person, you
    understand that once religion takes hold in a society, it can't be
    stopped. And secondly, I think it--the Olympics are going to serve as a
    chance for people to come and see China the way it is and let the
    Chinese see the world and interface and have the opportunity to converse
    with people from around the world. And this is a very positive
    development, in my view, for peace.
        And who knows what--how China is going to progress? They've been
    through some very difficult political times--the Cultural Revolution,
    where the leadership actually created violent anarchy as the society
    turned on itself. All I can tell you is, is that it's important for the
    United States to be active in this part of the world with all countries
    and to stay engaged with China.

    Situation in Georgia

        Mr. Costas. Moving away from China for just a second, during the
    opening ceremony, we saw you conferring with Vladimir Putin.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. We now know you were talking about the conflict that had
    erupted that day----
        The President. That's true.
        Mr. Costas. ----between Russia and Georgia. Now, Georgia is a former
    Soviet republic that is sympathetic to the West----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. ----and that is attempting to embody many Western
    values. But just as you need China, you need Russia strategically around
    the globe.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. You got to walk a fine line. What did you say to Putin?
        The President. I said, this violence is unacceptable. I not only
    said it to Vladimir Putin, I said it to
    the President of the country, Dmitry
    Medvedev. And my administration has been engaged with both sides in
    this, trying to get a cease-fire, and saying that the status quo ante
    of--for all troops should be August 6. And, look, my--I expressed my
    grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we
    strongly condemn bombing outside of South Ossetia.

    [[Page 1136]]

        It was just interesting to me that here we are trying to promote
    peace and harmony, and we're witnessing a conflict take place.
        Mr. Costas. Right, no Olympic truce in this case.
        The President. There wasn't. And I was very firm with
    Vladimir Putin--and he and I have got a
    good relationship--just like I was firm with the Russian
    President. And hopefully, this will get
    resolved peacefully. There needs to be a international mediation there
    for South--the South Ossetia issue.

    Darfur

        Mr. Costas. A couple more quick things.
        The President. Sure.
        Mr. Costas. China is a nation that warmly received Umar al-Bashir of
    Sudan, who has since been indicted by the International Court on charges
    of genocide.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. Then this past week, they revoke the visa of Joey Cheek,
    an exemplary Olympian who had planned to come here not to directly
    protest China's Government, but to call attention to the humanitarian--
    --
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. ----crisis in Darfur.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. What's your reaction?
        The President. My reaction is, I'm sorry Joey Cheek didn't come; he's a good man. Joey Cheek's just got to
    know that I took the Sudanese message for him. My attitude is, is if you
    got relations with Mr. Bashir,
    think about helping us solve the humanitarian crisis in Darfur. That was
    my message to the Chinese Government.

    China-U.S. Relations/Freedom Agenda

        Mr. Costas. As you attempt to press these points with them, do you
    find Hu Jintao not just warm toward you personally, but is he receptive?
    Do you sense any movement?
        The President. It's hard to tell. I mean, it's--all I can tell you
    is, is that it is best to be in the position where a leader will listen
    to you. Hey, I went to church here, and I'm sure the cynics say, ``Well,
    you know, it was just a state-sponsored church.'' On the other hand--and
    that's true. On the other hand, it gave me a chance to say to the
    Chinese people, religion won't hurt you; you ought to welcome religious
    people. And it gave me a chance to say to the Government, why don't you
    register the underground churches and give them a chance to flourish?
    And he listened politely. And I can't read his
    mind, but I do know that every time I met with him, I pressed the point.

    President's Visit to China

        Mr. Costas. Your father has longstanding connections to China. He
    was an envoy here even before we established an official ambassador's
    position, during the 1970s, and he is here with you on this trip. So
    there's a connection, a family connection.
        The President. Absolutely. Yes, there's a great connection. You
    know, I can remember riding my bike around Beijing in 1975, and it is--
    --
        Mr. Costas. Only bikes then, just about.
        The President. ----unbelievable how far this has changed. I mean, it
    is--and he feels the same way. And we were
    honored yesterday when the President, Hu Jintao,
    invited my dad and me and Laura and my
    sister and my daughter, my brother for dinner. It was a--
    lunch. It was just a great gesture of kindness.
        Bob, it's very important for the American people to know that coming
    here gave me a chance obviously to root for our team, and you've
    captured that, but it's also--coming here is a sign of respect for the
    Chinese people. And this is a big, important nation. We'll have our
    differences; we'll have our agreements. But in order to find common
    ground and to move the world toward peace, it is important for this
    country to show respect for the people of the country.

    [[Page 1137]]

    Major League Baseball

        Mr. Costas. Briefly, one more sports question.
        The President. Sure.
        Mr. Costas. You have been outspoken--your past connections to
    baseball--you used a State of the Union speech to do it, to talk about
    performance-enhancing drugs in sports. Marion Jones recently petitioned
    you for clemency.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Costas. She's serving time because of involvement in the BALCO
    case--one-time Olympic hero. We know many Olympians, and in your
    favorite sport and mine, baseball, big names: Barry Bonds, Roger
    Clemens. What's your feeling about this? And how much do you, as an
    American, trust the integrity of the sports you watch?
        The President. Yes, well, you know, let's just talk about baseball.
    Obviously, one of the great things about baseball is we can compare the
    records of the players of the fifties to the sixties and the seventies
    and, obviously, the 1990s. And it is very important for there to be a--
    for the sport to be clean so that the great continuity of and the
    history of baseball is real. And secondly, we don't want adults sending
    mixed messages to children that it's okay to shoot up drugs in order to
    become a star, because it's not okay.

    2008 Beijing Olympics

        Mr. Costas. You going to go to a few more events before you leave?
        The President. I'm going to swimming here--if you'd ever let me off
    this set. [Laughter]
        Mr. Costas. All right. You are dismissed.
        The President. Thank you, sir.
        Mr. Costas. Thank you, Mr. President.

    Note: The interview began at 8:55 a.m. at the International Broadcasting
    Center. In his remarks, the President referred to President Hu Jintao of
    China; President Dmitry A. Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin
    of Russia; former U.S. Olympic athlete Joey Cheek; and President Umar
    Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir of Sudan. He also referred to his sister Dorothy
    Bush Koch; his daughter Barbara P. Bush; and his brother Marvin P. Bush.
    Bob Costas referred to Alan Michaels, reporter, NBC Sports; former U.S.
    Olympic athlete Marion Jones-Thompson; and former Major League Baseball
    players Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.