    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book II)]
    [January 7, 2009]
    [Pages 1531-1542]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Brit Hume of FOX News
    January 7, 2009

        Mr. Hume. Mr. President, thank you for doing this.
        President Bush. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Hume. Welcome back to FOX News Sunday.
        President Bush. Thank you, sir.

    Last Days in Office

        Mr. Hume. Less than 2 weeks to go, how do you feel?
        President Bush. You know, I've got mixed emotions. I'm going to miss
    being the Commander in Chief of the military. Earlier the past week, I
    had the honor of having a military parade that said goodbye to the
    Commander in Chief, and it was an emotional moment for me and
    Laura.
        Mr. Hume. Why?
        President Bush. Just because I've got such great respect for the men
    and women who wear the uniform, and I've been through a lot with them. I
    have called upon them to do hard tasks. I have met with the families of
    the fallen. I have been to Walter Reed to see the wounded. And I have
    been incredibly inspired by their courage, their bravery, their
    sacrifice.
        And I'm going to miss all the folks who have made our life so
    comfortable here in the White House.
        On the other hand, I am looking forward to going back to Texas. I
    love Texas. I love my wife. And I'm excited about
    the next chapter in my life. And so all three of those things, you know,
    are the sweet part of the--what's going to take place on January the
    20th.

    Reflections on the President's Time in Office

        Mr. Hume. People who come to see you here and meet with you, from
    the outside, are continually taken by surprise by your evident good
    humor and good mood and the fact that with low poll ratings and various
    troubles besetting the country and all you've been through, that you're
    not down----
        President Bush. Yes.
        Mr. Hume. ----that you're fine. And everybody remarks on it. How do
    you explain that?
        President Bush. Well, I'm better than fine. I am proud of the
    accomplishments of this administration. I am thankful for the people
    that have worked so hard to

    [[Page 1532]]

    serve our country. I know I gave it my all for 8 years. And I did not
    sell my soul for the sake of popularity. And so when I get back home and
    look in the mirror, I will be proud of what I see.

    President's Principles

        Mr. Hume. You have said that you did not compromise your principles
    in the interest of popularity. How would you describe those principles?
        President Bush. Well, one principle is I believe in the universality
    of freedom, that there is an Almighty, and a gift of that Almighty to
    every man, woman, and child is freedom. And therefore, it's incumbent
    upon those of us with influence to act upon that principle.
        And I'll give you a classic example. During the darkest days of
    Iraq, people came to me and said, ``You're creating incredible political
    difficulties for us.'' And I said, ``Oh, really, what do you suggest I
    do?'' Their suggest--some suggested, retreat, pull out of Iraq. But I
    have faith that freedom exists in people's souls, and therefore, if
    given a chance, democracy--an Iraqi style democracy--could survive and
    work. I didn't compromise that principle for the sake of trying to bail
    out my political party, for example.

    Presidential Powers

        Mr. Hume. Talk to me about the Presidency as you found it, its
    powers, its prerogatives, and how you feel you're leaving it.
        President Bush. My Presidency was defined by the attack on the
    country, and therefore, used the powers inherent in the Constitution to
    defend this country.
        Mr. Hume. Did you find them intact?
        President Bush. I found--yes, I did find the Presidential powers
    intact. I have at times used those powers in ways that people had not
    anticipated. For example, the idea of, within the law, being able to
    have our folks question known killers about their intention. Now, many
    of the decisions I made are being adjudicated. And of course, I have
    lived by, and future Presidents will live by, the decisions of the
    Supreme Court. But as a wartime President, what remained intact, by the
    way, was the Constitution----
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. ----which we have honored.

    Checks and Balances in Government

        Mr. Hume. It has been argued that what you sought to do is actually
    expand the powers of the Presidency or in the eyes of some--perhaps in
    the eyes of the Vice President--to restore them. How do you see that?
        President Bush. I see the relationship between the Presidency and
    the judiciary and the legislative branch as constantly changing
    throughout the history of the country. And the key thing that's
    important is that there still be checks and balances. And so however I
    interpreted the Constitution, I kept in mind what the Constitution said
    the legality of what my decisions were. But I also fully understood the
    checks and balances inherent in our system.

    Presidential Powers

        Mr. Hume. Now, you've spoken of the tools that you believe you put
    in place and which your successor will now inherit.
        President Bush. Yes.
        Mr. Hume. How worried are you, if at all, that those tools will be
    eroded, relinquished in the--because some of them have been----
        President Bush. Slightly criticized. [Laughter]
        Mr. Hume. Well, to say the least.
        President Bush. I would hope that the team that is--has the honor of
    serving the country will take a hard look at the realities of the world
    and the tools now in place to protect the United States from further
    attack. I would hope they would take a sober assessment, and I believe
    they will.
        Mr. Hume. And what will they find?

    [[Page 1533]]

        President Bush. Well, they will find that with a considerable amount
    of care and concern for civil liberties, for example, that I have put in
    place procedures that will enable the professionals to better learn the
    intentions of Al Qaida, for example. They will realize, I think, when
    they really study the issue carefully, that we have gone from an
    administration that was accused of not connecting dots to an
    administration that is connecting dots, you know, linking pieces of
    information to better protect the country, with the civil liberties of
    our citizens in mind.

    Intelligence Gathering Program/War on Terror

        Mr. Hume. Now, the enhanced interrogation techniques, as some call
    them, torture, as others call them----
        President Bush. Yes.
        Mr. Hume. ----are being argued over to this hour. Some are saying
    you never get any good information by rough stuff, and others have said,
    more than once, that if we hadn't used these techniques, we wouldn't
    have had vital information and attacks could have been or would have
    been carried out on this country. Your view of that.
        President Bush. My view is that the techniques were necessary and
    are necessary to be used on a rare occasion to get information necessary
    to protect the American people. One such person who gave us information
    was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He was
    the mastermind of the September the 11th, 2001, attacks that killed
    nearly 3,000 people on our soil.
        And I'm in the Oval Office, and I am told that we have captured
    Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and the
    professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the
    country. So I ask what tools are available for us to find information
    from him, and they gave me a list of tools. And I said, are these tools
    deemed to be legal? And so we got legal opinions before any decision was
    made. And I think when people study the history of this particular
    episode----
        Mr. Hume. Well, what happened?
        President Bush. ----they'll find out we gained good information from
    Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in order to
    protect our country.
        Mr. Hume. Well, how good and how important? And what's the----
        President Bush. We believe that the information we gained helped
    save lives on American soil.
        Mr. Hume. Can you be more specific than that?
        President Bush. Well, I have said in speeches and, as a matter of
    fact, when this program was leaked to the press, I actually gave a
    speech that said to the American people, yes, we're doing this. And--but
    I also emphasized we were doing it within the law.
        Look, I understand why people can get carried away on this issue.
    But generally, they don't know the facts. And by the way, one of the
    interesting things that did take place is before anything happened on
    this particular program that we did brief Members of Congress.
        Mr. Hume. Yes.
        President Bush. We had an obligation to share information with the
    legislative branch. And all I can tell the American people is we better
    have tools in place that are legal and that can help us protect the
    American people from an enemy that still exists.
        And my concern is not for President-elect Obama, because I'm confident that he understands the nature
    of the world and understands the need to protect America. But I am
    concerned that America, at some point in time, lets down her guard. And
    if we ever do that, the country will become highly vulnerable.
        Mr. Hume. Well, how badly would it hurt, in your view, if this--
    these enhanced interrogation techniques that some call torture were
    abandoned and were not used?

    [[Page 1534]]

        President Bush. Yes, well, obviously, I feel like it would be a
    problem because these are tools that we have in place. I do want to--you
    know, I firmly reject the word ``torture.''
        Mr. Hume. I understand that.
        President Bush. Everything this administration did was--had a legal
    basis to it; otherwise, we would not have done it.
        Secondly, everything we did was in consultation with professionals
    in our Government who understand, you know, how to use techniques in a
    way that gets information with--you know, within the law, necessary to
    protect the American people.
        And I just can't imagine what it would be like to be President
    without these tools available and we captured a known killer who might
    have had information about the next attack on America.
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. See, what some don't understand, evidently, is that
    we're at war. And it's a different kind of war, where an enemy uses
    asymmetrical warfare and they lie in wait and find a soft spot, ready to
    attack again. And they're willing to kill as many innocent people as
    they can to advance their agenda.

    Central Intelligence Agency

        Mr. Hume. Right. Speaking of professionals, in the intelligence
    area, how do you view the selection of Leon Panetta to head the CIA?
        President Bush. I really don't feel comfortable commenting upon
    President-elect Obama's supposed choices, in
    this case. My only advice would be to recognize that the CIA is full of
    incredibly bright, hard-working, decent professionals who have got one
    thing in mind, and that is to serve the United States.
        Mr. Hume. And yet this administration, to some extent, has been
    bedeviled by intelligence leaks believed to have come from the CIA. They
    seem--and there has been a degree of tension, I think it's probably an
    understatement to say, between the administration--or the White House,
    at least, and the CIA.
        President Bush. No, I don't think so, Brit. I think that there have
    been disappointing moments when information came out of the Agency
    that--but the relationship has been fabulous up and down the line with
    the CIA.
        Mr. Hume. Really?
        President Bush. Oh, yes. I would say--I go out there quite
    frequently, and--or I have gone out there fairly often, I guess, is the
    best way to put it. And 99 percent of the people out there are anxious
    to help the administration do its job in a good way. And you can't stop
    leaks. And you don't know how many people were leaking, but I can assure
    you the vast majority of people in the CIA were very cooperative and
    have my highest respect.
        I meet with the CIA every day of my Presidency, except for Sundays,
    since I've been President, at the same time: 7:30 on Saturday, 8 o'clock
    on every other day. And I will tell you that it is a fascinating
    experience to be briefed by CIA analysts. It's like taking a
    geopolitical course, international affairs course, every single day of
    the Presidency.

    President-Elect Barack Obama

        Mr. Hume. You've had now some further occasions to meet with Barack
    Obama and get to know him a little bit better, a man you really didn't
    know. How did you--how did your interaction with him go?
        President Bush. It was a very straightforward----
        Mr. Hume. How did you find him?
        President Bush. How did I like him? I liked him.
        Mr. Hume. Were you--other than----
        President Bush. He's obviously--listen, the man is obviously a
    charismatic person.
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. And the man is able to persuade people that they
    should trust him, and he's got something--he's got a lot going for him.

    [[Page 1535]]

        And I was--you know, wish him all the best. The reason we had the
    dinner, or the lunch--we call them dinners in Texas--the lunch at the
    White House was so that he could hear from the current President and
    former Presidents that we want him to succeed. And he is an engaging
    person, and I am very impressed by the priority he places on his family.

    Republican Party's Future

        Mr. Hume. Now, your political family, the Republican Party----
        President Bush. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Hume. ----what do you think is its likely fortunes going
    forward? How have you left it? What does it need to do?
        President Bush. I think--look, I mean, obviously, we got whipped in
    2008. And there will be a new wave of leadership arriving on the scene.
        I can remember the '64 elections, the Goldwater--the Johnson
    landslide against Barry Goldwater, and we were--everybody said the party
    was wiped out. And then a whole new wave of Republicans ran, including
    George H.W. Bush, who got elected to the
    United States Congress from the Seventh Congressional District. Same
    thing will happen. But it's very important for our party not to narrow
    its focus, not to become so inward-looking that we drive people away
    from a philosophy that is compassionate and decent.
        And I would--my call for our party is to be open-minded about----
        Mr. Hume. About what?
        President Bush. Well, different people's opinions. We shouldn't have
    litmus tests as to whether or not you can be a Republican.
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. And we should be open-minded about big issues like
    immigration reform, because if we're viewed as anti somebody--in other
    words, if the party is viewed as anti-immigrant, then another fellow may
    say, ``Well, if they're against theimmigrant, they may be against me.''
    We've got to be a party for a better future, and for hope.

        Mr. Hume. You got--do you see new ideas out there that have not been
    a part of your own agenda or those of your Republican predecessors that
    might reignite the party's fortunes?

        President Bush. You know, look, I think that we shouldn't change our
    philosophy.

        Mr. Hume. Right.

        President Bush. We may want to change our messaging. We definitely
    want to change messengers. We need a new group of leaders. You know, but
    the idea of keeping taxes low----

        Mr. Hume. Do you see them emerging? Do you see any emerging who you
    could identify?

        President Bush. Well, I had one in mind----
        Mr. Hume. Who's that?
        President Bush. ----but he evidently didn't
    agree with his older brother.
        Mr. Hume. You're speaking, of course, about Jeb----
        President Bush. That would be Governor Jeb Bush.
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. But listen, there will be, you know, leaders. I
    mean, there's a lot of bright young guys and women in our party that
    will emerge. And parties go through cycles. There have been parts--times
    in our political history when the Democrats have felt like there was no
    future for them. And you know--and so I'm optimistic about it. I don't
    want the party to feel like it's got to sell its soul on defending the
    country; that freedom is transformative; that we've got to be
    compassionate conservatives; that tax--low taxes make sense; that the
    military needs to be supported. I mean, there's a lot of just basic
    tenets to our party that make a lot of sense to the average person.

    [[Page 1536]]

    Post-Presidency Agenda

        Mr. Hume. You have indicated that you've found this job to be
    fascinating; everybody does. It's probably the most interesting job in
    the world. Now you go from doing the most interesting job in the world
    to being out on your own. How do you feel about that? What do you think
    your life is going to be like, just sort of day to day? Will you be more
    time in Dallas, more time at your ranch? How do you expect to spend your
    time?
        President Bush. Yes, it's an interesting question. And I've begun to
    think about that, because I can remember with a great sense of
    anticipation coming to Washington, DC, to be the President of the United
    States. And I have the same sense of anticipation heading out of
    political life, but without the sense of gravity.
        Mr. Hume. Right.
        President Bush. And so I don't--I'm going to be fairly footloose for
    a while. I'm confident Laura will have enough
    tasks for me to keep me busy. But I imagine I'll spend a fair amount of
    time in Dallas working on the policy center that will be associated with
    a library on the SMU campus. And I'm excited about that, because I do
    want to continue to promote not a political party, not my personality or
    my record, but a set of values that I think are very important for the
    country.
        And you know, I plan on writing a book.
        Mr. Hume. Do you?
        President Bush. I do.
        Mr. Hume. A history of your Presidency?
        President Bush. You know, I'm not quite exactly sure what it's going
    to be, but I'm toying with the idea of maybe describing the toughest
    decisions I had to make as President and the context in which I made
    them, because one of the things that----
        Mr. Hume. How soon will we see this book, do you think?
        President Bush. That's the kind of question I better not answer,
    because----
        Mr. Hume. Well, do you feel some urgency about getting it done?
        President Bush. Well, I'll say 2 years and it will be 4.
        Mr. Hume. Got it.
        President Bush. I don't know. I mean, yes, I'd like to get it done.
    I am a type A personality that--you know, I require things to do. And I
    bet once I get going on this book, I'll be able to get 'er done. But
    it's--what's evident to me is that it is very hard for people to
    remember what life was like a mere 4 or 5 years ago. And it's going to
    be very important for me to recreate the environment in which I had to
    make certain decisions, particularly the environment right after
    September the 11th, 2001.
        Mr. Hume. Right. Mr. President, thank you for this. Please bear with
    us, we need to take a break. And when we return, we will have a special
    visitor. Stay with us.

    [At this point, there was a pause in the interview. It then began again
    as follows.]

    President's Relationship With His Father

        Mr. Hume. Well, we're pleased now to be joined not only of course by
    President Bush, the current President Bush, but by his father. Mr.
    President 41, welcome.
        Former President George H.W. Bush. Thank you, Brit.
        Mr. Hume. I believe this is the first time you two gentlemen have
    ever been interviewed together.
        Former President Bush. I think so. It may be the first time we've
    been asked to be interviewed. I don't know. [Laughter]
        Mr. Hume. Well, we're delighted to have you. Thank you very much.
        Former President Bush. No, that's not true, but we've just gone our
    separate ways on these interviews.
        Mr. Hume. In some sense, it has at least seemed that during your
    son's Presidency, that while you guys obviously were in touch--your
    family matters, much to discuss--that apart from that, there wasn't a
    lot of give and take. Is that true?

    [[Page 1537]]

        President Bush. Well, that's all it takes for give and take. I mean,
    you don't need--if you mean, am I calling up dad--I mean, ``George,
    here's what you got to do now on Iraq,'' or something; no, I didn't do
    that. And we sometimes would talk about policy. But I was determined to
    stay out of his way and avoid speculation of what's the old guy think. I
    mean, you don't need that.
        Mr. Hume. Well, now it can be told. [Laughter] Discuss if you will,
    both of you, the extent of your consultations on policy and political
    matters as--while you were President--the frequency of it.
        President Bush. See, the interesting thing is that a President has
    got plenty of advisers, but what a President never has is someone who
    gave him unconditional love. And therefore, when I talked to my dad, I
    was more interested in the father-son relationship. You got a lot of
    people who can give you advice, but you rarely have people who can pick
    up the phone and say, ``I love you, son,'' or, ``Hang in there, son,''
    and be--and provide the kind of comfort that a President needs on
    occasion.

    The Presidency and Public Opinion

        Mr. Hume. You have said that when your father was President,
    particularly toward the end--a rough year politically, in 1992--that
    that hurt you more than it seemed to hurt him. Is that true?
        President Bush. Well, I said that being the son of a President was a
    lot harder than being the President.
        Mr. Hume. And how about being the father of the President?
        Former President Bush. Tough at times,
    only when you see criticism you know is very unfair. But I didn't--I
    tried not to speak up; it might just exacerbate the problem for him. But
    when I saw things I knew were grossly unfair in the press, in the print,
    anywhere, it hurt. It hurt Barbara, and it hurt me. But it's better not
    to go forth and sally forth and try to take the offense----
        President Bush. And by the way, I----
        Mr. Hume. Well, did it hurt you more than the criticism that you
    took as President?
        Former President Bush. I think it hurt
    more, yes.
        Mr. Hume. Do you feel that way too, that it hurt you more than----
        President Bush. Absolutely. Gosh, I was furious. I got the
    reputation----
        Mr. Hume. ----about stuff about him?
        President Bush. Yes. I got the reputation of being slightly
    hotheaded at times, and you know, it was an accurate characteristic,
    because I was ready to duke it out when I saw people say things that
    were unfair about dad. And the other thing that's interesting is,
    though, I can remember calling he and
    mom and saying, ``Don't worry about me.'' In
    other words, I knew that they were taking on, you know, the anxiety, and
    I knew what it was like to have somebody you love being hammered in the
    press.
        And so I spent a fair amount of time, as I recall, calling them and
    saying, ``Look, don't worry about me, things are going to be fine, my
    spirits are good, Laura is doing great.'' And you
    know, I think people sit out there and say, ``They must have had some
    kind of, you know, relationship that is kept very clinical and very
    advisory, touched up.'' But this is a loving relationship. This is--you
    know, he's the head of a fabulous family,
    and whether it be me as the President, or Jeb as
    the Governor, or Neil, Marvin, and Doro, dad's phone
    calls are not, you know, you must do this or that; his phone calls are,
    I love you, and it's very powerful.

    President's Legacy

        Mr. Hume. Now, your son's race is days away from having been run.
    How do you regard his Presidency?
        Former President Bush. Very positively.
    And I think history will----
        Mr. Hume. Why?

    [[Page 1538]]

        Former President Bush. Well, because
    you make a tough decision and stay with it. I mean, he's been tested
    unlike any other President with this 9/11. So he passed the test.
        President Bush. He's going to be judged
    great too. He was a--he was almost too humble to be President. And when
    history finally gets objective, they will be able to say a lot of
    positive things about George Bush. I cannot worry. You know, I tell
    people I'm still reading biographies of George Washington or analyses of
    his Presidency. And if they're still writing about the first guy, the
    41st guy and the 43d guy simply don't need to worry about it.
        Former President Bush. We won't be
    around to worry about it, that's for sure. [Laughter]
        President Bush. Yes.

    Former President Bush's Health

        Mr. Hume. Now, I see you getting along--getting around now on a
    cane, and--is that a condition that's going to get better, in your
    judgment? Are you going to be--is this a remnant from one of your hip
    operations, or what do you got going there?
        Former President Bush. This is what they call old age.
        Mr. Hume. I understand about that myself. [Laughter]
        Former President Bush. No, it's--no, no pain, no hip--I think I have
    an imbalance that came from a back operation.
        Mr. Hume. Oh.
        President Bush. Let me ask you something. Is it true that you said
    publicly that you're going to jump out of the airplane again?
        Former President Bush. True. But that doesn't take anything but just
    going up there with some big--strapped on to some big Golden Knight or
    someone, and it's a thrill.
        President Bush. You're going to have trouble convincing mother of that. [Laughter]
        Former President Bush. No, I won't.
        Mr. Hume. What about you? What do you think about that? Do you want
    him to do that?
        President Bush. I think he's a nut to jump out of an airplane at age
    70, 75, 80, and 85. I find it--actually, I think it's cool.
        Former President Bush. I told you the reasons, though. You don't
    want to sit around just because you're an old guy, drooling in the
    corner. [Laughter] And secondly, you want to send a message out to
    around the world, actually, because of the prominence of the Presidency,
    that you can still do stuff. Old guys can still do stuff, get involved
    in things.
        President Bush. You can drool and jump at the same time. [Laughter]
        Former President Bush. That's right. [Laughter]

    Post-Presidency Agenda

        Mr. Hume. Now, you're in Houston. You've chosen Dallas.
        President Bush. Yes.
        Mr. Hume. What's up with that?
        President Bush. Well, I want to be close to SMU. And that's where
    our policy center/library/archives are going to be.
        Mr. Hume. You okay with that?
        Former President Bush. And they had a
    Dallas connection----
        Mr. Hume. Did you hope that he'd come to Houston?
        Former President Bush. What?
        Mr. Hume. Did you hope that he'd move to Houston when--
        Former President Bush. No, I never
    thought he would move to Houston.
        President Bush. Plus, Houston is 2 hours away from--I mean, Dallas
    is 2 hours away from Crawford. And I plan on spending some time down
    there in Crawford.
        Former President Bush. And Laura had
    some Dallas connections, so it made sense.
        President Bush. Yes.

    [[Page 1539]]

    Central Intelligence Agency

        Mr. Hume. Now, I want to ask you a little bit about the intelligence
    agency situation. After all, you came as an outsider to intelligence.
        Former President Bush. Total outsider.
        Mr. Hume. You weren't an intelligence professional. And now you got
    the building out there named after you. So obviously, it could work.
    Your thoughts about, not to the Panetta nomination or the Panetta
    selection specifically, but about the general idea of what it takes to
    be the--to run the intelligence agency effectively?
        Former President Bush. Well, I heard
    what the President said in his interview with you, and I agree with
    that, that there's so many outstanding people there. And so I went in
    there at a time the Agency was under tremendous fire--the Pike report,
    the Church report--and they were just decimating the morale of the
    Agency. So I viewed my job not to learn all the trade craft, but to
    defend the quality and the character of the Agency and the people there.
    And that was perhaps an easier assignment than knowing all about every
    intrigue of intelligence.
        But all I hope is that whoever goes out there goes with confidence
    in the CIA and the people around CIA. They're good people, more Ph.D.s
    than many universities and many different disciplines. And everybody
    just thinks it's kind of a James Bond operation.
        And so I think that whoever assumes that job--and I have had great
    confidence in the President's pick--will express confidence in the
    Agency and the people that make it up.

    Relationship Between Past, Present, and Future Presidents

        Mr. Hume. Talk a little bit, if you will, about this relationship
    among people who are in or have been in this remarkable job; it's a
    pretty exclusive club. And I know you had a lunch this week to bring
    them together with the President-elect. But what is that atmosphere like
    among former Presidents? Are all the old political differences aside? Is
    that all over with?
        Former President Bush. Yes, I think so.
    And I think everyone--every member of that club realizes there can only
    be one President; he's not going to be turning to you every day saying,
    ``What will I do now?''
        You read a lot of kind of intellectual books, but what we need is
    the advice--formalize the advice of former Presidents. He doesn't need a
    lot of advice from former Presidents. And he needs to--the current
    President needs to have good people around him who will help him pursue
    the goals he's set out.
        And so I don't think there's much to it except collegiality and the
    idea that you want to be out there if he needs support.

    President-Elect Obama's Administration

        Mr. Hume. Now, you've watched this range of appointments that Barack
    Obama has announced; your take on it, your feeling about it?
        President Bush. I've been impressed.
        Mr. Hume. Why?
        President Bush. Well, because, one, he showed decisiveness. Two, he
    has picked people that are capable and competent people. And I think
    he's had a very good transition. And frankly, I think Josh
    Bolten, my Chief of Staff, and the people
    that work here in the White House have also had a good transition,
    because they have reached out to the President-elect's team at all
    levels. And the message is, we want there to be a seamless move from us
    leaving and you coming in, and we want you to succeed.
        And so I've been very pleased with what I've seen over the last--
    since the election.
        Mr. Hume. Do you agree with that?
        Former President Bush. Yes, totally.
    Totally. And if I didn't, I wouldn't tell you--same policy. [Laughter]
        Mr. Hume. Well, what--look, you--this is very like you, and like you
    as well, to

    [[Page 1540]]

    refrain from comment on the other public--political figures, the
    incoming President and so on. Why?
        Former President Bush. Well, why be out
    there looking like you're carping and criticizing and know everything? I
    mean, I've heard what the President said about President Obama--
    President-elect Obama. I feel the same way: Support him where you can,
    and don't go out there criticizing and carping. You look small yourself
    for one thing, but that's not the main reason; the main reason is he
    needs support. And if it's something you disagree with violently, sit on
    the sidelines and shut up.
        President Bush. There will be plenty of opportunities for people to
    carp, trust me. I mean, this is a job that----
        Former President Bush. Oh, yes, I know
    there will.
        President Bush. ----and dad knows as
    well as anybody, it's--you'll get plenty of opinions when you're the
    President, and you'll get plenty of flattering statements, and you'll
    get your fair share of not so complimentary comments.
        I also remember what it was like to have people disappoint you. I
    mean, you'll be getting--you'll be picking up the newspaper and reading
    comments from people that you just say, well, I just can't believe that
    that person would be so kind of not respectful of their own office, much
    less yours, to call those kind of names. And that--to me that has been
    the biggest disappointment in the political process up here; there has
    been this kind of bitterness by a few people to the point where they
    don't want to have a logical discussion or a civil discussion about
    policy, they just want to tear you down. And----
        Mr. Hume. Do you think that's gotten worse since your days in the
    White House?
        Former President Bush. I don't know
    that it's gotten worse, but it's offensive, very offensive. And I
    always--I'll agree with the President that when you have somebody you
    have your own trust in, and that person for his own gain--thinks it's
    for his own gain--goes out and gives kind of ``here's the inside
    story,'' ``here's what they're saying, but here's what's really
    happening,'' playing the leak game. It's just horrible. And every
    administration has that. But I think President George Bush here has been
    lucky; there hasn't been that many of them.
        President Bush. Yes.
        Former President Bush. And I think we
    were pretty lucky.

    Advice From Former President Bush

        Mr. Hume. When you left this office, it was reported at least that
    it was--it took a while, you had a period of adjustment, and it was
    tough for you at first. And then, obviously, you hit your stride and
    found your life. And how was that? And what advice do you have for your
    son as he embarks on a similar experience?
        Former President Bush. Well, looking back lo those many years, I
    don't remember it being extraordinarily difficult. I mean, I felt
    unfulfilled agenda, for example; I felt things I'd like to have done.
        But once you got back to Texas, it wasn't difficult at all; you just
    start in a new life. And part of mine was to build around our library at
    Texas A&M in just the way he's looking forward to having his library.
    You get a lot of strength from there; you bring a lot of people there to
    talk. So it's not that difficult.
        President Bush. His advice was come back to Texas. But he didn't
    need to give it, because that's exactly where we're headed.
        Former President Bush. Yes, people hover around the Potomac River,
    whether Senators or Congressmen that have been defeated. They'd better
    go home; that's what I think.
        Mr. Hume. Gentleman, thank you very much for doing this.
        President Bush. Yes, sir, thank you.
        Mr. Hume. It was a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

    [The interview moved to the Oval Office, and continued as follows.]

    [[Page 1541]]

    Working in the Oval Office

        Mr. Hume. Now, as you stand here together, Mr. President 41, what is
    your most vivid memory of your time in this office, something that
    happened in this very room?
        Former President Bush. Well, I can't
    think of many, but I remember Colin Powell reaching under this desk--a
    desk and pulling out the telephone to call Schwarzkopf to see if the
    mission had been accomplished. After that, they said it's time to shut
    down this war----
        Mr. Hume. In Kuwait.
        Former President Bush. One hundred
    hours--we'd done what we said we wanted to do, and he called up--and
    that one sticks in my mind as a dramatic moment. But there are many,
    many other exciting things. But that one stands out.
        Mr. Hume. Can you think of your most anxious moment here?
        Former President Bush. Anxious moment?
        Mr. Hume. Yes.
        Former President Bush. I really can't.
        Mr. Hume. I mean, you had to give that order.
        Former President Bush. Yes, but I can't
    think of any--a real anxious moment that stands out among others. There
    are probably plenty of them, but----

    President Bush's First Moments in Office

        Mr. Hume. When you first took office, took occupancy of this office,
    as I recall, the two of you had a brief moment together.
        President Bush. Right.
        Mr. Hume. Can you reflect on that? Do you remember it?
        President Bush. We had just witnessed the Inaugural Parade, and I
    came upstairs at the White House up there, and I think you were taking a
    nap.
        Former President Bush. No, I was in the
    bathtub, thawing out.
        President Bush. Yes, he was in the
    bathtub. [Laughter]
        Mr. Hume. Were you really?
        Former President Bush. Yes.
        President Bush. Of course, I yelled through the door. Anyway, I
    said, ``Why don't you come over and meet me in the Oval Office?'' And so
    I got in here before he did, and I was just
    getting a sense of what it was like to be in the shrine of democracy.
    And then I looked up, and in comes 41. And it was a moving moment. It
    was a great day for me, a very proud moment.
        Mr. Hume. Can you remember what was said?
        President Bush. Not really. I had a weird chair, as I recall. It had
    like an electric cord on it. And I don't--did you use the weird chair
    with the electric cord?
        Former President Bush. Yes.
        President Bush. Well, I didn't use the weird chair with the electric
    cord, but he showed me how to operate it.
        Mr. Hume. What did it do?
        President Bush. Jiggle or something.
        Mr. Hume. Where you put on your fingers, turned off the lights, and
    magic fingers make you feel all right? That kind of thing? [Laughter]
        Former President Bush. I remember it
    slightly differently. I remember being in the bathtub after that ice-
    cold Inaugural Parade or whatever, and Ramsey, one of the guys that was
    over in the White House said, ``Get out of the bathtub, Mr. President,
    you got to get over; the President wants you right now.'' [Laughter]
    ``Come on, I'm just thawing out here.'' ``Get over there.'' [Laughter]
    So I went over, and it was very, very moving.
        President Bush. It was an awesome moment, it really was, as you can
    imagine.

    Message From the Outgoing President to the Incoming President

        Mr. Hume. It is the custom of departing Presidents is to leave a
    note in the drawer.
        President Bush. Yes. Actually, it's a custom to leave a note
    upstairs at the--if I'm not mistaken--the residence.

    [[Page 1542]]

        Mr. Hume. Well, however you do it. Do you recall what you wrote?
        Former President Bush. Reagan wrote me,
    and it was in the desk. And I think I did the same thing.
        President Bush. Oops.
        Mr. Hume. And what did you say, roughly?
        Former President Bush. I don't
    remember, just good luck.
        Mr. Hume. To Bill Clinton?
        President Bush. I'm going to write one.
        Mr. Hume. Have you thought about it--what you're going to say?
        President Bush. I have not. I think it's probably best I wait for,
    you know, right before he and his family come to ride down Pennsylvania
    Avenue with me.

    The Oval Office

        Mr. Hume. This office has been used in different ways by different
    Presidents--atmosphere, formality, in some less formality than others.
    As I recall, you never set foot in this office, Mr. President 41,
    without a jacket and tie. Is that--that was true wasn't it?
        Former President Bush. That was my
    policy, I think.
        Mr. Hume. And how about you? Did you----
        President Bush. I thought it was the right policy.
        Mr. Hume. Has that always been the case?
        President Bush. Yes, I may have come in here once in over 8 years
    without a tie on--or twice. But I come in here to work. And as I said, I
    refer to this as a shrine to democracy, and it is, and it needs to be
    treated that way. And I had a fabulous mentor.
        Former President Bush. Now, I think
    it's important to treat this place with respect, and that's what we
    tried to do.
        Mr. Hume. Well, I'm sure you'll be remembered for having done just
    that. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
        President Bush. Thank you, sir.
        Former President Bush. Brit, good luck
    to you.
        Mr. Hume. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

    Note: The interview began taping at 10:32 a.m. in the Cabinet Room and
    continued in the Oval Office at the White House, for later broadcast. In
    his remarks, the President referred to former Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida.
    Former President Bush referred to former Rep. Otis G. Pike; Michael V.
    Hayden, Director, Central Intelligence Agency; Gen. Colin L. Powell, USA
    (Ret.), former chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; and Gen. H. Norman
    Schwarzkopf, USA (Ret.), former commander, U.S. Central Command. The
    transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on January
    11. A portion of this interview could not be verified because the tape
    was incomplete.