    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book I)]
    [January 4, 2008]
    [Pages 9-18]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Foreign Print Media
    January 4, 2008

        The President. How are you doing? Welcome. Pleasure to be with you
    all. Thank you.
        What are the ground rules here, Dana, in
    terms of the American press?
        White House Press Secretary Dana Perino.
    It's all on the record, but can't be used until after these fine folks
    are able to publish.
        The President. Yes, so delay your stories, will you? [Laughter]
        Q. It's very hospitable of you, Mr. President.
        The President. A couple of things--one, I'm excited about going on
    the trip. I have never been to Saudi Arabia. I have never been to
    Bahrain. I have never been to Kuwait. I have been to Egypt. I have not
    been to the Palestinian Territories or Israel as a sitting President.
        So this is a really good opportunity to travel and be with friends
    and have frank discussions about particularly three items: one, the
    United States commitment to the peace process; that what happened in
    Annapolis is the beginning of serious discussions, a serious attempt by
    the United States to encourage the Israelis and the Palestinians to
    develop a vision of what a Palestinian state will look like.
        And I am very optimistic that such a vision will come into being by
    the time I leave office. And the reason I am is because I know the
    two leaders well, and
    I believe both are committed to a two-state solution, and both
    understand that in order for that state to come into being, subject to
    the roadmap, that there has to be more than just words; there has to be
    clarity in what a Palestinian state will look like.
        Secondly, I'm looking forward to sitting down with friends and
    allies to assure them of my commitment to Middle Eastern peace and to
    work with them to make sure they're committed to Middle Eastern peace;
    that I will remind them that we've got a three-track strategy: one is
    the vision; two is the implementation of the roadmap--in other words,
    the United States chairs a committee with the Palestinians and the
    Israelis to deal with roadmap issues; and three, a commitment by the
    United States and others to build the institutions necessary for a
    Palestinian democracy to thrive.
        In other words, there's got to be a recognition that we need
    institution-building; there needs to be work. For example, the United
    States is very much involved in helping modernize their security forces
    and create a chain of command, so that when good men like President
    Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad see a security situation needs to be taken care of,
    they can give a command and something happens, for the good of the
    Palestinian people. In other words, a state, in order to be credible and
    viable, must be able to provide security for its people.
        The EU is very much involved with institution building and basically
    enhancing the entrepreneurial spirit of the Palestinian people, which is
    very strong. So I'll be visiting with Tony Blair,
    for example, when I'm there to see the progress he's making. My only
    point is, is that it's going to be very important for the nations that I
    visit to be active participants in not only helping the Palestinians,
    but recognizing that a two-state solution recognizes Israel's right to
    exist.
        Thirdly, I will be also talking to our friends and allies about our
    strong commitment to regional security, that the United States is
    engaged and will remain engaged in the security of the region.
        And so this is a trip that will be--it's going to be interesting, it
    will be stimulating, and it's going to be substantive. And

    [[Page 10]]

    as I say, I'm looking forward to it, I really am.
        We'll start--Joyce, why don't you crank her up here? We'll go a
    couple of rounds.

    Lebanon

        Q. Thank you again, Mr. President, for having us. Happy New Year.
        The President. Thank you. It is going to be a happy New Year.
        Q. Hopefully, more peace in the region.
        The President. It will be a joyous New Year. [Laughter] Isn't that
    right, guys? Very skeptical--[laughter]. Don't be.
        Q. If I can open up by asking you about Lebanon. The country is
    entering the second month, and the Presidency is still void over there.
    Who do you think is responsible for creating this situation and
    maintaining it? And what is your administration and maybe the French--
    Mr. Sarkozy, good friend of yours--doing to end this stalemate?
        The President. Thank you. First of all, the United States is
    strongly committed to Lebanese democracy. We believe that a Lebanon that
    is democratic and peaceful is in the interests of world peace.
        I have been very impressed by Prime Minister Siniora, by the way, as a man who's committed to the well-being
    of all the Lebanese people. Secondly, I am disappointed that the
    Presidency has not been selected and believe very much that Syrian
    influence is preventing the selection. Thirdly, part of my trip is to
    remind our friends and allies how important it is for Lebanon to succeed
    and how important it is for all of us to work to free that Government
    from foreign interference.
        My position has been that the March 14th coalition, if it had
    mustered a majority plus one, 50 percent plus one, should be allowed to
    go forward with the selection of the President. We are working with not
    only our friends in the region who share the commitment for Lebanon to
    be free of foreign interference, but also the European countries.
        And so there needs to be a clear message to the Syrians from all us
    that you will continue to be isolated, you will continue to be viewed as
    a nation that is thwarting the will of the Lebanese people. There needs
    to be a focused voice, and so our efforts diplomatically are to convince
    others that they must continue to pressure Syria so that the Lebanese
    process can go forward.
        Sa'ad.

    Iran

        Q. Yes, again, Mr. President, I'd like to reiterate the remark of
    Joyce of thanking you for giving us this----
        The President. Yes, thrilled to do it.
        Q. ----historic opportunity. You talked about the regional security.
    And back in the Gulf States, the number-one issue nowadays, in terms of
    security of the region, is the Iranian nuclear profile and issue. And
    we'd like to know your position on that now, the development of that.
    The region is nervously--nervous about having another war,
    confrontation, on the one hand; yet they are also very nervous about the
    Iranians possessing the nuclear weapons. And I'd like to follow up on
    that.
        The President. Well, thank you. First of all, the NIE, the National
    Intelligence Estimate, ought to be viewed as a clear signal that Iran is
    a threat to peace, that--the NIE said the following things: One, the
    Iranians had a covert military nuclear weapons program, and that
    international pressure caused them to suspend the program.
        There are three elements to a nuclear weapons program: one, the
    ability to enrich uranium that can be converted into the basis of a
    bomb; secondly, the know-how to be able to assemble that enriched
    material into a bomb; and third, the capacity to deliver the weapon
    through rocketry. As far as we know, two of those programs still are
    ongoing. One is the rocketry program; two, there is a civilian
    enrichment program. And the danger of a civilian enrichment program is,
    once that knowledge is gained,

    [[Page 11]]

    that it could be easily transferred back to a covert military program.
    And therefore, the NIE should be a clear signal to all of us that Iran
    is a threat to peace. And they're a threat to peace because they have
    been nontransparent. They have not lived up to their obligations under
    the IAEA. They have not been truthful about their program.
        And so one of my messages is that I, too, take the Iranian issue
    seriously, and that we have a plan to deal with it in a diplomatic way.
    It's important for the people in the region to know that while all
    options remain on the table, that I believe we can solve this problem
    diplomatically. And the way to do that is to continue to isolate Iran in
    the international community.
        My message to the Iranian people is that there's a better way
    forward for you, that your Government has made decisions that have
    caused you to be isolated from the world, have caused there to be
    economic deprivation, because they refuse to be transparent and open
    about their enrichment programs.
        And so I understand this is an issue, and it's going to be an agenda
    item on my travel. It's not going to be the only item, of course. The
    Middle Eastern peace process is something that will be on the leaders'
    minds. The commitment of the United States to remain active in the
    region will be on their minds. I'm sure that these leaders fear that the
    United States may become isolationist and basically throw up its hands
    and say, who cares what happens. I will remind them that what happens in
    parts of the world matters to the security of the United States of
    America, and that we look forward to being a constructive force and
    working with allies like allies should do.
        And so I'm sure the subject will come up, and I'm looking forward to
    clarifying once again our position.
        Jasim.

    Bahrain

        Q. Thank you, Mr. President, for this opportunity. It is a dream
    comes true.
        The President. Thank you, sir. The American press feels the same way
    when they talk to me. It's a dream come true. [Laughter] You might want
    to clarify that. [Laughter] Some of them are very serious this morning.
    They're very grim, serious.
        Q. It's cold outside, sir.
        The President. It is cold outside.
        Q. King Hamad of Bahrain has launched democratic reforms that
    included a new Constitution, and Bahrain now has an elected Parliament.
    How do you assess this experiment, especially in light of your drive to
    spread democracy in the region?
        The President. I have complimented His Majesty on recognizing that Bahraini-style democracy, a
    democracy that reflects the traditions, customs of Bahrain, is a
    important part of dealing with real threats that we face in the world,
    which is extremism based upon hopelessness; and that there is a true
    threat to peace, and that is radicals who prey upon frustrations of
    people in order to convince them to become suicide bombers and to kill
    in the name of an ideology. And the best antidote to that is democracy.
        And I applaud his efforts. And we are very active in helping
    nations, if they so choose to receive our help, in moving forward
    through the MEPI program, for example. And it is a way to help people
    build the institutions necessary for a--I repeat--a democracy that
    reflects their traditions and history of the respective countries.
        And people go at different paces. And I don't expect Jeffersonian
    democracy to break out instantly, nor do I expect the forms of
    government to reflect that which we have in the United States. But I do
    hope that people recognize that popular sovereignty, that listening to
    people and responding to people, is how to build a stable and peaceful
    world.

    [[Page 12]]

        And so I applaud His Majesty. I'm looking forward to bringing up the subject with
    the Amir of Kuwait as well.
    You know, women are now very active in the Kuwaiti Parliament. And I
    think--I feel these are constructive engagements. My friend King
    Abdallah of Saudi
    Arabia doesn't get enough credit for beginning to reform his society.
        And again, I want to repeat: It is important for the American
    President not to insist that countries do it our way. I believe it is
    incumbent upon the American President to listen very carefully to the
    concerns of other leaders and to recognize obstacles and problems, but
    also remind them of this ideological struggle in which we're involved,
    all of us are involved; and that--I'll repeat it: Extremists prey upon
    hopelessness, and forms of government can create hopeless people, people
    who are frustrated, people who don't feel like the government is
    responsive to their needs.
        The people that we--that kill the innocent have no positive vision.
    The only thing they can do is prey upon frustration--and that a way to
    deal with this ideological conflict is to defeat the ideology of hate
    with one of hope. And that's what's happening in the Middle East. It's--
    there's an awareness. And I'm looking forward to discussing that with
    the various leaders.
        Yes, sir, Talat.

    Saudi Arabia

        Q. Yes, sir. Thank you for giving me this opportunity--and others.
    Sir, you're talking about the Middle East peace. I just would like to
    see, how do you see the role of King Abdallah in promoting the peace
    process and stability in the Middle East? And also, how do you evaluate
    the Saudi-American--comparing the terror in the region?
        The President. Well, thank you. First of all, I admire King
    Abdallah. I admire him
    because he is a man who commands a lot of respect from me personally and
    a lot of respect in the region. When he speaks, people listen. It's not
    to say that other people don't listen as well, but Saudi Arabia is
    geographically important, is the guardian of holy sites, and he's a
    well-respected man.
        And so in terms of the Middle Eastern peace process, the fact that
    he sent his Foreign
    Minister to Annapolis
    sent a very strong message that Middle Eastern peace is going to require
    the participation of more than just the United States and Israel and the
    Palestinians, that a true peace is going to require a commitment in the
    neighborhood of supporting two states living side by side in peace--two
    democratic states living side by side in peace. So he has laid out his
    own initiative in the past. It commanded great respect. It is a
    commitment to a process. And so I value him as--I view him as invaluable
    in the process.
        Secondly, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia recognized that murderers
    threaten not only other parts of the world, but threaten the Kingdom's
    own security. And the security forces there have done a magnificent job
    of using intelligence to find the few that would murder the many. I have
    been impressed--and any objective observer would be impressed--by Saudi
    Arabia's commitment to finding those people that use murder as a weapon.
        And so I--to answer your question, I am satisfied with our
    cooperation. I'm appreciative of the efforts that the intelligence
    community inside Saudi has been making to deal with these extremists,
    some of whom conduct murder in--within the Kingdom, some of whom leave
    the Kingdom to conduct murder. And the King is fully aware that this is a--such a presence
    is a threat to his own internal securities, as well as recognizing an
    obligation to prevent those from going outside the country to murder.
        Talha.

    President's Upcoming Visit to the Middle East

        Q. Thank you. Thank you again, Mr. President. Mr. President, I
    wanted to ask

    [[Page 13]]

    you, your visit to the region will not include the Maghreb Arab.
        The President. Will not include----
        Q. The Maghreb Arab----
        The President. Yes, that's right.
        Q. ----Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia. Those countries actually
    played a very important role in the peace process in the past, and I
    think that they are willing to do it again. And my question, Mr.
    President, if there is any reason for excluding the Maghreb Arab from
    your visit?
        The President. Only because I ran out of time. It's certainly not as
    a result of any lack of respect or understanding that the contribution
    of those--of that area would be a significant contribution to achieving
    peace. And I appreciate very much the leadership in the King of
    Morocco as well as President
    Bouteflika. I'd like to go some time. I
    just--I don't want to make excuses, but I will. I've got to prepare the
    State of the Union Address. [Laughter] And so I'm leaving for a lengthy
    period of time and need to get back home.
        And having said that, one of my great trips as a civilian--I guess
    you'd call me a civilian--non-President, nonpolitical figure--was when I
    went to Morocco. I had the great pleasure of going to Marrakesh, for
    example. And I'll never forget drinking crushed almond milk, and enjoyed
    the wonders of the desert and then was able to see snow-capped mountains
    shortly in the distance--in the short distance. And so it's--I threw
    snowballs in Morocco one time in the Atlas mountain range. So I had a
    wonderful experience there. Not to be kind of nostalgic, looking back,
    but--you know, it's interesting--for example, there are a lot of
    Moroccan Jews in Israel.
        Q. And in Morocco also.
        The President. What?
        Q. And in Morocco.
        The President. Yes, and in Morocco, which provides the King an interesting opportunity to be a healer and a
    unifier. And I believe he's committed to that. So I view these three
    countries as important, and I am--wish I could have gone, but I was
    unable to do so.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Q. I want to ask you about the peace process. You voiced confidence
    that there might be a deal before the end of your second term. However,
    previous attempts to broker such a peace between Palestinians and
    Israelis have not succeeded. President Clinton, when he tried with Camp
    David, the intifada broke. And today, with the situation on the ground,
    with Syria and Iran not being fully engaged in the process, what makes
    you more confident that this might really go through?
        The President. First of all, the Annapolis meeting was able to
    happen because of a lot of work we had done prior to the meeting with
    the parties. Step one is for there to be a recognition that the two-
    state solution was necessary for the security of both peoples. There had
    to be a philosophical change of attitude. People had to recognize that
    two states was the vision necessary for Israel to feel secure and for
    the Palestinians to feel hopeful.
        Secondly, leadership had to emerge on both sides that was committed
    to the two-state solution and leadership that was committed to
    recognizing that extremists are trying to undermine that solution and
    must be dealt with, particularly the Palestinian leadership. President
    Abbas understands that there are people,
    sometimes inspired by foreign government, that will do everything in
    their power to stop the advance of a democracy. He is committed to
    dealing with that. Sometimes you've got to make sure, though, that the
    commitment is coupled with the capacity to deal with it, and that's one
    of the concerns that we're helping them deal with.
        Thirdly, in order for there to be lasting peace, there has to be a
    regional commitment. In other words, the Palestinian leadership as well
    as the Israeli leadership has to know that when they negotiate a vision,

    [[Page 14]]

    it will be supported by people in the region. One of the failures of the
    past is that people attempted to lay out a state--lay out the vision of
    a state, and yet there wasn't regional support, which made the
    political--the politics on the ground much more difficult for the
    leadership. And so I--those three issues have been addressed in the
    runup to Annapolis.
        Finally, this really is a leadership issue that we're talking about.
    There has to be a firm commitment by the leaders involved to do--to make
    hard decisions. The United States can help, and I will help, and the
    State Department under Condi Rice's
    leadership will help, and the National Security under Hadley's leadership will help. We will help them make hard
    decisions. But these decisions must be made by the leadership in order
    for there to be lasting peace. And when those decisions are made, they
    must be supported by the region. And so I think those ingredients are
    now in place, and I'm optimistic that it will get done by the time I
    leave office, and more importantly, so is President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert.
        Now, what's going to happen is, is that there will be moments--there
    will be issues over settlements or Katyusha rocket attacks. These are
    going to be opportunities for those who don't want the vision to go
    forward to keep the process mired. We have a way to deal with that, and
    that is through a trilateral--the roadmap group to deal with these
    issues. My job is to remind people that laying out a substantive, real
    vision around which people of good faith can rally is instrumental to
    peace.
        Now, keep in mind, when we define the state, it will be implemented
    subject to the roadmap. That's why the roadmap--the trilateral committee
    on the roadmap is important. And so there's going to be a lot of work to
    be done. And it's being done now. Institution-building is being done;
    security force modernization and reform is being done. The
    entrepreneurial spirit, which is strong amongst the Palestinians, can be
    tapped into. It's hard to get capital to invest, however, unless there
    is certainty--or more certainty about security and a vision.
        And so we're working a three-pronged strategy, and I believe all
    three of those prongs have come together in such a way as to give me
    confidence this deal can be done by the time I leave office.

    Guantanamo Bay Detainees/Iran

        Q. Mr. President, allow me to communicate to you a Kuwaiti sort of
    question or hope or plea. Needless to say that Kuwait is a true ally of
    the United States. There is so much gratitude for the role the United
    States played in the liberation of Kuwait back in 1991. Kuwait was the
    only launching pad for Operation Iraqi Freedom. When push came to shove,
    we were true allies.
        Now, back in Kuwait, as your visit is approaching, the Kuwaitis are
    actually wondering if there will be an end to the four Kuwaiti detainees
    in Guantanamo. There are four of them. To the best of our knowledge, all
    paperwork has been done; all security assurances have been----
        The President. To be transferred back to----
        Q. To Kuwait.
        The President. ----from Guantanamo to Kuwait. We'll look at it. Our
    strategy, by the way, is to transfer as many Guantanamo detainees back
    to their countries of origin as possible, subject to the no torture
    agreement.
        Q. The security assurances and the paperwork----
        The President. Security assurances, right, as well as the assurances
    that the people will be treated humanely. I just will have to look into
    this.
        Q. That will be great news, Mr. President, actually.
        The President. Okay, we'll look into it.
        Q. If this is broken, that--the paperwork is done----

    [[Page 15]]

        The President. I understand. Well, some of the detainees are going
    to need to be tried in our court system. The crimes were such that we
    believe they ought to be brought to justice in a U.S. court system,
    which is--it's having a little trouble getting started because we've had
    a few court challenges for our court system. The whole purpose of the
    exercise was to send people home and try those who remain. And I just
    have to check on the four.
        Q. That's very kind of you. If I may follow up on that earlier
    question----
        The President. Please.
        Q. ----which is, also--I'm here actually to reflect on some sort of
    a conspiratorial thinking back in the region. You know that's a region--
    --
        The President. Has that ever happened? [Laughter]
        Q. ----whose middle name is actually ``conspiracy''--that everything
    seems to be going for the mullahs' regimes in Iran, over the past 20
    years of the United States strategy. The United States had eliminated
    the northern ideological enemy of Iran, U.S.S.R.; the eastern sectarian
    enemy of Iran, Taliban regime; the old-time foe, Saddam Hussein, in the
    west, without having--for the Iranians to resume the 8-long war--8-year-
    long war--and everything seems to be going their way. And yet, at the
    same time, here we are. As true allies, we want to have sort of a clear
    strategy of what exactly are we to adopt with our main ally, the United
    States of America----
        The President. I appreciate that.
        Q. ----in terms of the confrontation of the threat for peace that is
    coming from Iran.
        The President. What you've just described is one way to look at it.
    I look--let me look at it a different way, that now on the Iranian
    borderst exists a democracy, with a Constitution that is the most modern
    Constitution written in the Middle East; a democracy that is beginning
    to grow in confidence; a democracy that will recognize the rights of all
    citizens within its border; a democracy that will be responsive to the
    people, which stands in stark contrast to the system of government in
    Tehran that's not a democracy; it is in many ways a theocracy.
        Secondly, there is a--within Iran, there is--I mean, Iraq, there's a
    different attitude of the Shi'a. There's a quietus school; there's a
    school that says religion definitely has a part in society, but religion
    isn't going to run government, which is a--it's just an interesting way
    to view the neighborhood. Secondly, Afghanistan is now a democracy, a
    functioning democracy. Are these easy situations? No, they're difficult
    situations. Democracy takes a while to grow and flourish. But
    nevertheless, there is a competing form of government in Afghanistan, a
    different kind of form of government in Afghanistan.
        Thirdly, Russia is very much engaged in the region. Russia has been
    helpful with Iran. Russia has supported the U.N. Security Council
    resolutions. Russia put forth an interesting proposal, which I've
    supported, that said, if you want to have a civilian nuclear program,
    you say your program is civilian in nature, there's no need for you to
    enrich because we'll provide the fuel for you. In other words, Russia
    has basically taken that argument away from the Iranians that said, we
    are--have the sovereign right to have a civilian nuclear program, and
    they said, fine.
        This, by the way, I have said publicly. Of course they have a
    sovereign right to have a civilian nuclear program. The problem is,
    because this nation did not level with the IAEA, they are to be not
    trusted with the capacity to enrich, because once you learn to enrich,
    you could easily transfer that to a covert military program.
        And so I view the situation differently, and I will be--I'm looking
    forward to talking to the Amir about it. What he'll want to know is whether or not we
    take the Iranian threat seriously. That's what he's going to want to
    know. And as my first answer to the question was, it should be

    [[Page 16]]

    clear to you, I do. And secondly, he's going to want to know, do we have
    a strategy to deal with it? And I'll be glad to lay out again the
    strategy to deal with it. And thirdly, he'll want to know whether or not
    the United States is going to remain active in the region, will we be
    working with friends and allies on developing a security plan? And the
    answer to that question is, absolutely, we will be. That's one of the
    main purposes of the trip, to talk about U.S. commitment to the region.
        Jasim.

    Bahrain-U.S. Relations

        Q. Bahrain and the United States are now benefiting from the free
    trade agreement----
        The President. Yes.
        Q. ----they signed in 2004. Are there any new initiatives to
    reinforce economic and military cooperation? And how true are the
    reports which are saying that the United States will abandon its base in
    Bahrain?
        The President. Well, I can handle that one right now: They're not
    true. You're right about the conspiracy theory. [Laughter] He's asking
    whether we're going to pull the 5th Fleet out of Bahrain, and the answer
    is no. And if that's a concern of His Majesty, it won't take long for me to allay his concerns. As a
    matter of fact, I'm looking forward to not only dealing with the
    Bahraini officials and His Majesty, of course, but to talk to our troops
    there in Bahrain. I'm looking forward to thanking them for their service
    to the country, which ought to be a very powerful signal that the answer
    is no.
        Bahrain is a very hospitable place for our Navy and other Armed
    Forces, and that in itself is a--should be a signal to people that we
    view Bahrain as a stable, strong country, which is all part of tracking
    investment. You asked about how do you enhance trade. Well, one way you
    enhance trade is to make sure that capital is--capital looks for secure
    places. Capital doesn't like to invest and have a high-risk component
    based upon instability. So that in itself ought to--that signal in
    itself ought to facilitate division of a free trade agreement.
        Talat.

    Energy

        Q. Yes, sir. Sir, you're talking about civilian nuclear, and you
    don't have any objection for that if it's going to be under the
    supervision of the international arena. DCC recently approached to have
    a civilian nuclear facility for water desalinization for power. What is
    your stand on that?
        The President. It's a--very interesting, Talat. First of all,
    desalinization requires an enormous amount of power. And the best power
    source for desalinization, to make it more economical, is nuclear power.
        Secondly, I believe if the world is serious about dealing with
    global warming, emissions, then the best way to deal with it is for us
    to power up through nuclear power. And so therefore, I'm a advocate for
    nuclear power, with proper safeguards to make sure that untrustworthy
    nations, nations that will not subject themselves to IAEA scrutiny, are
    called to account. So I would support nuclear power for the sake of
    desalinization.
        People say: ``Well, you're awash with oil. Why do you need nuclear
    power?'' Well, nuclear power is environmentally sound, and nuclear power
    is really the best way to deal with issues such as desalinization. If I
    were in the Middle East and worried about water, which is a valuable
    resource, I too would be looking for economic ways to desalinize the
    water. I think it's a smart policy.
        Q. Thank you, sir.
        The President. Final question. It's been an interesting session.
        Q. Thank you.
        The President. You're trying to--one more question, Joyce. Quick. If
    I give you, then I have to go around again. [Laughter]

    [[Page 17]]

    Situation in Darfur

        Q. Thank you, Mr. President. You will visit Egypt, sir, which has
    recently deployed troops in Darfur----
        The President. Yes.
        Q. ----part of the hybrid force. You also signed a bill against
    Sudan, which it seems from my point of view again to affect the people--
    the Sudanese people, but not the Government. My question, Mr. President:
    If Darfur would be part of your agenda when you meet with President
    Mubarak?
        The President. Absolutely. First, I'll thank him for sending troops.
    Secondly, I'm going to correct you on the sanctions. The sanctions were
    aimed at individuals within the Sudanese regime, people that were
    obstructing the peace process--including a rebel leader. They were aimed
    at the elite and companies owned by the elite, as opposed to the
    Sudanese people.
        In order for there to be the peace that we all want--now, this is
    dealing with Darfur--and as you know, the situation is very complicated
    because we're not only dealing with Darfur, we're dealing with the
    north-south agreement as well--in order to--well, let me do north-south
    very quickly. We have been working with the southern leaders to get them
    to participate in the Government of Khartoum, so long as the Government
    of Khartoum is forthcoming with their agreements, such as the sharing of
    oil revenues.
        Secondly, we have insisted that both parties not be provocative when
    it comes to military incursions upon an ill-defined border.
        Thirdly, we're providing aid to the people of southern Sudan. And
    it's interesting; one of the really interesting things about America is,
    total strangers are going to help total strangers all the time. And
    there's a lot of church and faith-based groups involved in southern
    Sudan trying to improve the lot of people living there--in other words,
    the great humanitarian outreach that takes place.
        Darfur--in order for there to be the peace that we all want in
    Darfur, there has to be, one, a united rebel group willing to sit down
    at the table with Khartoum in good faith. And one of the reasons I put
    the sanctions on individuals in Sudan--we did have sanctions prior to
    that, general sanctions, but these ones you're referring to are targeted
    at folks--is because there was a lack of effort by the Government on
    truly trying to promote the peace process. I recognize, however, that
    there has to be a more united effort by the rebel groups. In other
    words, the rebel groups cannot take advantage of--continue to take
    advantage of this notion that they can do what they want without being
    serious about the peace. And so the United States is sending a dual
    message: one, to the Government of Khartoum; and two, to the rebels.
        When we first got going in the process, by the way, there was three
    major rebel groups, which made it easier to convince people to come to
    the table. Now there are 20; the groups are beginning to split. And so
    we support the U.N. process, coupled with the AU: one, to get troops in
    there as quickly as possible to be able to help the folks who are living
    in these dispersed camps have a normal life. And the United States, by
    the way, when you talk about direct humanitarian aid, has provided more
    direct humanitarian aid than any country in the world by far because we
    care about the human condition, we care about people's lives.
        Secondly, that we support the U.N. efforts to get the rebels to the
    table. There was one attempt in Libya, as you know, recently, and our
    efforts are to support Jan Eliasson--he was the
    former Ambassador for Sweden here--as he works to bring cohesion so that
    there's a cohesive unit of rebels to negotiate with the Government.
        And so I'm--I have been frustrated, frankly, with the pace of the
    United Nations and the AU to get troops in there because, as I say, my
    concern is about the

    [[Page 18]]

    individual that's out in the remote regions of Darfur, maybe going
    hungry, definitely worried about violence. But I would repeat to you
    that in order to solve this problem, there has to be cohesion amongst
    the rebels and a genuine, real peace process where people sit down
    seriously--to seriously discuss a better way forward. And the United
    States will participate. We have participated by sanctioning, to send
    the signal that we expect the Government to participate seriously. And
    we're also--by the way, as I told you, we sanctioned a rebel leader--
    trying to send the same message. It's a terrible situation and one that
    we hope can be resolved as quickly as possible.
        With that, I want to thank you all. Looking forward to seeing you
    again.
        Q. Thank you, same here.
        The President. Enjoyed it.

    Note: The interview was taped at 10:25 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House. In his remarks, the President referred to Prime Minister
    Ehud Olmert of Israel; President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Salam
    Fayyad of the Palestinian Authority; former Prime Minister Tony Blair of
    the United Kingdom, Quartet Representative in the Middle East; Prime
    Minister Fuad Siniora of Lebanon; King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa of
    Bahrain; Amir Sabah al-Ahmad al-Jabir al-Sabah of Kuwait; Minister of
    Foreign Affairs Saud al-Faysal bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia;
    King Mohamed VI of Morocco; President Abdelaziz Bouteflika of Algeria;
    President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak of Egypt; and United Nations Secretary-
    General's Special Envoy for Darfur Jan Eliasson. A reporter referred to
    President Nicolas Sarkozy of France. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.