    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book I)]
    [May 12, 2008]
    [Pages 672-676]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Lukman Ahmed of BBC Arabic
    May 12, 2008

    Jenna Bush Hager's Wedding

        Mr. Ahmed. Thank you so much, Mr. President, for this. And first, I
    must congratulate you for your daughter's wedding. And how does it
    feeling, being a father? I know you are listening to your mom; I know
    you are a father, and you are having a daughter's wedding. How does it
    feel?
        The President. You know something, I was emotional, and--because I
    was so happy and proud. And she's marrying a good guy, Lukman. And we were out there on our ranch, which is a
    part of the world Laura and I love, and it was
    just a special evening, and it was great. I feel great. Thank you.

    Lebanon/Iran

        Mr. Ahmed. All right. You have given--we are going to Lebanon. You
    are giving Hizballah the choice of being terrorist organization or a
    political party. What do you think would prompt Hizballah to abandon
    its--[inaudible]? Why Hizballah claim the existence of legitimate
    concern for these weapons?
        The President. Yes. I don't know. I mean, it's hard for me to get
    inside Hizballah's head. I do know that they are destabilizing Lebanon.
    I do know that they were viewed at one time as the protectors against
    Israel, and now, in fact, they're turning against the Lebanese people
    themselves.
        And I do know that Lebanon's success is very important for peace in
    the Middle East. And so our position--the--my Government's position is
    to support the Siniora Government, is to beef
    up his army so that he can have a chance to respond to people who are
    acting outside the confines of government.
        And you know, Hizballah wouldn't be--would be nothing without
    Iranian support. And Iranian is the crux of many of the problems in the
    Middle East, whether it be funding of Hizballah, funding of Hamas, or
    obviously, actions within the young democracy of Iraq. And so a lot of
    my trip is going to be to get people to focus not only on Lebanon and
    remember Lebanon, but also to remember that Iran causes a lot of the
    problems around the Middle East.

    Lebanese Armed Forces

        Mr. Ahmed. We are going to touch that Iranian support and Syrian
    support to Hizballah. Many supporters of the U.S. policy in Lebanon
    criticize the lack of practical American support to the Siniora
    Government. That's what we are seeing right now. The USS Cole is now
    heading to the region, in what you call a--or previously mentioned, the
    support of an American ally. Does this mean the USS Cole is willing to
    offer this practical assistance?
        The President. Well, the most practical assistance, really, is to
    help the Lebanese Armed Forces become effective. And that's what we're
    doing. A couple years ago, I sent one of our top admirals to Lebanon to assess the needs of the
    military. And as well as I've been watching very carefully to assess the
    courage of the leadership, like Prime Minister Siniora. I'm impressed by the Prime Minister. He's a good guy who
    cares deeply about the future of his country. And he needs a military
    that has got the practical equipment necessary to deal with elements in
    this society that are destabilizing. And that's really where our
    practical help is going to be.

    Situation in Lebanon

        Mr. Ahmed. And as supporting the Lebanese military, that means they
    should go, or do you think would go, to disarm Hizballah?
        The President. Well, of course, I don't see how you can have a
    society with

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    Hizballah armed up the way they are. I mean, any time they feel like
    moving, they try to do it. In this case, though, they moved against the
    Lebanese people. They're not moving against any foreign country; they're
    moving against the Lebanese people. And it should send a signal to
    everybody that they're a destabilizing force. And--but the first step,
    of course, is to make sure that the Siniora
    Government has got the capacity to respond with a military that's
    effective, that can move point A to point B in a quick fashion, and
    that's got the capacity to get the job done.

    Syria/Iran

        Mr. Ahmed. You are calling both Iran and Syria to halt their support
    to Hizballah. But in the absence of any direct contact with Iran and
    Syria, your administration--how do you think both countries should stop
    doing this? You are not negotiating with them. You are not exploring
    other means to have them halt their support.
        The President. So what's there to negotiate? I mean, they know my
    position. Early on in my administration, we sent the word to the
    Syrians, with top administrative officials, that if you want better
    relations with the United States, stop supporting these extremist groups
    that are trying to stop the advance of free societies. And every time,
    their response was nothing. So they know our position, the Syrians and
    the Iranians.
        I have made it abundantly clear there's a better way forward. If the
    Iranians want to have relations with us, they ought to verifiably
    suspend their enrichment, and then they will--they can visit with us and
    other nations involved with the--through the U.N. process.
        But they--both sides, both countries have made the decision to not
    take up offers. And they're very destabilizing influences. And they're--
    I truly believe that the Middle East is where the world ought to spend a
    lot of time, attention, and focus to help bring prosperity and peace,
    and that when people do pay attention closely, they'll recognize the
    destabilizing influence that the Iranians and the Syrians are having.

    U.S. Foreign Policy/Iran

        Mr. Ahmed. So what are the other means that you think you could take
    to have them stop their support?
        The President. Well, you know, there are sanctions, of course.
    There's international--working with the international community to send
    common messages, working with the financial community. And we're doing
    that. The problem is, some folks just don't see the same--the threat
    that Iran poses in the Middle East, for example, as others do. I view
    them as a serious threat to peace, and therefore, I spend a lot of time
    trying to convince other nations, other leaders to join in this common
    concern.

    Palestinian State

        Mr. Ahmed. We are going to the Palestinian and Israeli issue. And we
    know that you are going there to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the
    establishment of Israel, and you are the President who put the idea of
    the two-state solution. There are the other sayer in the Palestinian
    side. They call this anniversary as Nakba, or disaster. What do you say
    to them, Mr. President?
        The President. I say to them that I care deeply about the
    Palestinian people and their future. They're going to have a choice to
    make, hopefully, and that choice is, here's what a state's going to look
    like, or do you want the kind of state that Hamas has brought you? And
    there needs to be a vision that people can see, that's clearly spelled
    out, with defined borders and the refugee issue settled and something on
    how to move forward on the holy sites, security discussions.
        And those discussions are ongoing right now. And our job in the
    United States, it seems like to me, is to encourage the parties to come
    and reach a common solution so that they can then say, the world

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    can say, here's what a state will look like, and now you suffering
    Palestinians have a choice to make: You can accept that, or you can
    continue to follow or accept in your presence these extremists who
    murder innocent people.
        Isn't it interesting that as the talks begin to emerge, there's more
    rockets flying into Israeli neighborhoods? Why? Because they want to
    stop the advance of a Palestinian state. And so no, I got a good message
    for the people of the Palestinian Territories.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Mr. Ahmed. In fact, I'm going to carry on that message. I'm given 30
    seconds, so I hope if you could allow me to ask this question here. In
    your last meeting with Abu Mazen here in the White House, you stated, as
    I quote here, that ``I'm confident we can achieve the definition of a
    state.'' Actually, Abu Mazen, he expressed some concern after that
    meeting that he couldn't see anything that would suggest that the
    possibility of establishing the state before the----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Ahmed. ----end of your term. And he's hoping, and you are
    hoping, right now you are heading there. Are you willing to tell me that
    before the end of your administration, there will be an agreement to be
    concluded, based on the assurance you get from the--both sides?
        The President. I think we can; I really do. We're going to work hard
    for that end. Look, it's hard. I understand that. And Abu Mazen was expressing frustrations with the process, and
    that's okay. He's sending a message. He wasn't speaking necessarily to
    the American people. He was sending a message back home that he's
    frustrated, and he expects there to be more progress made to his liking.
    I understand that. That's what negotiations are all about.
        Abu Mazen and Olmert are, of course, necessary to get a good deal, but
    there's still--Tzipi Livni and Abu
    Ala are talking now. There's a lot
    of discussions going on. And it's just a process. And the fundamental
    question is, when it gets down to it, will they be able to agree?
    They've closed the gap, closed the gap. Will they be able to agree at
    that last minute? And that's why Condi Rice
    and Hadley and others are going out there
    all the time to encourage them to get a deal done. It's in their
    interests. It's in the Israelis' interests that there be a state living
    side by side with them in peace, and it's in the Palestinians' interest.
    The status quo is unacceptable; Gaza's unacceptable. What they need is a
    state that responds to the will of the people. And the first step is to
    define what the state looks like. And we'll work hard for the next
    months to see if we can't get it done.

    Palestinian State

        Mr. Ahmed. And the agreement that you are trying to get it done, is
    it going to be a description of the state or the establishment of the
    state?
        The President. No, it will be a description of the state. Remember,
    I told everybody earlier that there's got to be some roadmap obligations
    that have to be met. Everybody understands that. Step one is the
    description. And the state can't look like Swiss cheese. It has to be
    contiguous territories with defined borders--and the refugee issue
    concluded as well.
        Mr. Ahmed. And that's what we're going to get before the end of your
    administration----
        The President. I think so.
        Mr. Ahmed. ----is a description of the state?
        The President. I'm working hard to get there.

    Iran

        Mr. Ahmed. Thank you so much. With regard to Iran, President----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Ahmed. ----Bush, it's very vital, as you say it always, that
    their cooperation to have stability in Iraq. Do you think that

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    it--you consider one day that--talking direct to them to have them
    achieve that goal to----
        The President. They know--look, if I thought talks would matter,
    we'd talk. But they know our position. We have had talks between our
    Embassy and their Embassy. They know, and they know that the Iraqi
    Government, along with the U.S. Government, wants them to stop sending
    their weapons from Iran into Iraq, all aiming to kill innocent people.
    That's what they're doing. They're being very--they're not being
    constructive at all. But they absolutely know our position. And when we
    catch them doing it, they'll be brought to justice. And we are catching
    them doing it right now.

    Syria/North Korea

        Mr. Ahmed. And the issue of the possible cooperation between Syria
    and North Korea on the weapon of--nuclear weapons, actually----
        The President. Yes. Well, their--yes, that was a troubling
    development, wasn't it? That all of a sudden, out of the blue, there's--
    in the middle of a kind of a remote area, a reactor is there, built with
    the help of Koreans--North Koreans. And it just goes to show, unless
    there's transparency and openness, unless there's a strong inspection
    regime, what could happen. And that's why it's very important that the
    world stay diligent and pay attention to what goes on in the Middle
    East, and not hope for the best, but remain active.
        Mr. Ahmed. But thus, the evidence is seriously being--my last
    question, last question. This evidence, Mr. President, seriously being
    questioned. Obviously, the people have in mind that--the presentation at
    the U.N. with regard to the Iraqi weapon of mass destruction. So how do
    you see that, how----
        The President. Yes, look, I mean, it's--the difference was, in this
    case, there was concrete examples. I mean, everybody that analyzed the
    data realized it was true. I mean, are people saying that it didn't
    exist? Is that what the line of reasoning is? Well, I just--just not the
    case or the truth. The truth is, is that out of nowhere was discovered
    this reactor that nobody talked about. The Syrians didn't tell anybody
    about it. The North Koreans didn't tell anybody about it. And it was
    discovered, and now it's destroyed.
        Mr. Ahmed. Mr. President, thank you so much.
        The President. You're a good man.
        Mr. Ahmed. Thank you so much for this opportunity.
        The President. Yes, sir.

    Note: The interview was taped at 11:52 a.m. in the Map Room at the White
    House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Henry Hager, husband of Jenna Bush Hager; Prime Minister Fuad Siniora of
    Lebanon; President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) and former Prime Minister
    Ahmed Qurei (Abu Ala) of the Palestinian Authority; and Prime Minister
    Ehud Olmert and Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs
    Tzipora ``Tzipi'' Livni of Israel. The transcript was released by the
    Office of the Press Secretary on May 13.

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