    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book I)]
    [May 12, 2008]
    [Pages 660-665]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Nadia Bilbassy Charters of Al Arabiya Television
    May 12, 2008

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Mr. President, thank you very much for your
    time, sir.
        The President. I am honored to be with you again. Thank you.

    Situation in Lebanon

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you. And of course, we're going to
    focus on Lebanon. You have been a strong supporter of Prime Minister
    Siniora. Yet when he came under attack, he seems to be abandoned--not
    the U.S. and not the U.N., not Arab countries came to his aid. How do
    you explain that?
        The President. Well, I don't think it's an accurate description that
    the United States hasn't stayed in contact with him, has listened to
    him, has listened to his requests. I mean, we're in contact with him a
    lot. And the reason why is because I personally admire Prime Minister
    Siniora,

    [[Page 661]]

    and the Lebanese democracy is essential to a peaceful Middle East in
    many ways. And so we're--we will help him. We will help him particularly
    and primarily through strengthening his armed forces, the Lebanese Armed
    Forces. It's probably the most practical way that we can get some help
    to him quickly.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Just to follow up on that, during the fight
    with Fatah al-Islam, you have helped the Lebanese Army, but in this
    particular case, it doesn't seem to be coming. So what--can you just
    give us some details----
        The President. Yes, we probably got some more work to do, Nadia. I
    mean, we've got--it's interesting, the situation has evolved from one
    where Hizballah supposedly was protecting the Lebanese people from
    Israel; now we're going to need--inherent in your question is a desire
    for the Lebanese Armed Forces to protect the Lebanese people from
    Hizballah. And the roles are seemingly reversed. And so Condi, in particular, has been in touch--Condi Rice has
    been in touch with the Prime Minister a lot to
    assess needs and to help and see how we can help.

    Safety of Lebanese Leaders

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Three of your closest allies, which is Sa'ad
    al-Hariri, Walid Jumblatt, and Prime Minister Siniora, are under siege.
    They're under house arrest. Is this any guarantee that you--their life
    or--is safe or that they're not going to be attacked? And if they are
    attacked, what the United States can do?
        The President. Well, we're constantly looking at options, of course.
    And we're monitoring the situation very closely by staying in touch with
    these leaders,
    particularly Prime Minister Siniora. And the best solution is for the Lebanese Armed Forces
    to be--is to be capable of protecting the leaders. And that's what we
    expect. And our Ambassador evidently was in
    with the Prime Minister when he gave instructions to the military to
    protect the--these leaders.
        And the Lebanese Armed Force is pretty good. They're not great yet,
    but they're pretty good. And we want to make them better so that they
    can respond.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. But you're confident that their safety is not
    going to be touched?
        The President. I hope so. I'm not confident the--I was hopeful that
    Hizballah would become patriotic--patriots to Lebanon and not respond
    every time to Syrian or Iranian demands. And so we'll see what happens.
    As you know, there's been a lot of confusing stories coming out. But one
    thing that we're concerned about is obviously the safety of our friends
    and leaders.

    U.S. Troop Movements/Situation in Lebanon

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. One other thing we have seen was the USS Cole
    has moved from the Suez Canal opposite the Lebanese shores. Is this just
    a show of force, or are they able to do something?
        The President. Well, this is a part of a routine training mission
    that had been scheduled a long time before. Again, I repeat to you: The
    best way for us to help stabilize the situation and eventually allow
    this Lebanese democracy to go forward is, one, keep the pressure on
    Syria and, two, bolster the capabilities of the Lebanese Armed Forces so
    that they respond to the Government--and the Government says, okay, you
    need to go protect these people, or go take care of business here,
    they'll be able to do so.

    Lebanese Armed Forces

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. So you're satisfied with their role so far,
    the army?
        The President. Satisfied with?
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. With the army.
        The President. No, I'm not satisfied with the army, but I'm
    satisfied that, given their equipment, they've done a good job. And the
    question then is, can we help them

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    get better equipment and better training in the short run? In other
    words, we want it to be better than today. I was satisfied with the
    earlier incursion that you talked about. I thought they handled
    themselves very well.

    Meeting With Prime Minister Fuad Siniora of
    Lebanon/Situation in Lebanon

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. You wanted to meet with Prime Minister
    Siniora in Sharm el-Sheikh, but he's under siege. How he's going to get
    out of Lebanon?
        The President. Yes. I don't know, we'll see. I'd like to meet him.
    And we'll just have to deal with that when I get over there.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Is there any plans?
        The President. No, I haven't--there may be; I just haven't talked to
    anybody about it today, Nadia. In terms of--you know, I'd love to see
    him. I think it would be a good message if I could see him and stand
    with him, side by side, and say my--say the truth, which is, I admire
    his courage. And I think the Arab world needs to support him stronger,
    and I think the Arab world needs to make it clear to the Iranians and
    Syrians that--allow this good man to govern his country without
    interference.

    Situation in the Middle East/Iran

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Sir, a former Israeli Army--Amnon Shahak--
    said that it's better if Hizballah is in control of Lebanon. It will
    make it easier for Israel to attack. Would you agree with this man?
        The President. I'm a peace man. I think--I don't know who this guy
    is, and I haven't read about it, but I will tell you that I would much
    rather have the Siniora Government succeed and
    survive and that there be peaceful--a peaceful process. I think we ought
    to all work to prevent the necessity for armed conflict in order to
    solve problems. Obviously, look, I believe that using the military as a
    last option is important to keep on the table. But I would hope that
    we--through better policy that we would create the conditions--that we
    would not create the conditions that would enable another war inside
    Lebanon. These people have suffered too long.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. I hope so.
        The President. So have the Palestinians, by the way, and that's why
    I'm for a Palestinian state.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Well, we're going to follow up on the
    Palestinian issue in a minute, but do you see what's happening in
    Lebanon as a proxy war between Iran and the U.S., fought this time on
    Lebanese territory?
        The President. I think that it's a part of a larger ideological
    struggle where people are willing to use agents of violence in order to
    achieve their political objectives. And so whether it be Lebanon, Iraq,
    or the Palestinian Territories, you're seeing this type of strategy play
    out, and a lot of it is fueled by Iran.

    Syria/Iran

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. What measures would you take to pressurize
    Syria or Iran regarding the action of Hizballah in Lebanon?
        The President. Well, we're taking pressures, as you know, through
    sanctions, which sometimes are effective, sometimes aren't. And what's
    very important during this period, Nadia, is to remind people of the
    truth and the realities on the ground, to encourage them to be more
    tough on implementing these U.N. Security Council resolutions.
        And obviously, we're trying to solve problems diplomatically. I
    mean, it's important that we work with friends and allies to see if we
    can't convince the Iranians to stop funneling monies to these violent
    groups or to stop their enrichment--suspend their enrichment activities;
    or in Syria's case, to put financial pressure on them to adhere to the
    U.N. Security Council resolutions regarding Lebanon.

    [[Page 663]]

        And we've been successful sometimes, as I mentioned, and sometimes
    we haven't, because sometimes commercial interests don't take the
    threats nearly as seriously as you do or I do. And so it's just a lot of
    work to keep the pressure. But to me, that's the best way to try to
    solve these problems, is through diplomacy.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. So there is no selective military strike that
    could be considered?
        The President. Well, there's always--as you know, there's always
    that option. I made it very clear during my Presidency that option is on
    the table. And of course--and I've also always said diplomacy is our
    first choice.

    Iran/Middle East Peace Process

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Some will say that Iran is establishing a
    foothold in the Mediterranean, whether it's happening in Lebanon now,
    and this issue of Gaza, to a certain extent, by Hamas. How would you,
    sir, kind of react to Iranian influence in the region?
        The President. Well, it's clearly there. And the first thing is to
    tell the truth. That's why I'm glad you're asking me about this
    question, because I want people who are listening to understand that
    it's the Iranian influence that is creating problems for the
    Palestinians trying to have a state. I mean, isn't it interesting that
    there's a two-state solution on the table that needs to be negotiated. I
    readily understand that, that you can negotiate the boundaries,
    negotiate the refugee issue, negotiate the other issues. But as those
    negotiations go forward, there are Iranian-backed groups trying to kill
    people to stop it, trying to create enough violence and confusion so
    that the peace talks don't go forward.
        And it's just a clear example of why the Iranian influence needs to
    be dealt with. And the United States is very much involved with doing
    that through, for example, success in Iraq. And we're trying to stand
    with our friend--not trying--we are standing with our friend
    Siniora. We're analyzing ways that we can
    continue to do so. And I'm going to the Middle East to talk very clearly
    about the Palestinian state and how I'd like to get it defined before I
    leave office. And I think we can. I think we can.

    United States-Israel-Palestinian Authority Meeting

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. But the fact that you don't have a trilateral
    meeting between yourself, Abbas, and Olmert----
        The President. I don't think----
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. ----as some would say, it's like----
        The President. Yes, I know, but don't read into that. I mean, it's--
    look, I think I can be plenty effective meeting with these leaders. And
    remember, Condi is over there meeting--the
    main negotiators, by the way, happen to be Tzipi and Abu Ala.
    And they're talking all the time, and we're trying to get their data,
    get to where they are, and bring it to the leadership level at times.
    And the leaders are meeting as well. So it's a very complicated process.
    And I don't think necessarily not having a trilateral meeting should be
    read as anything other than that it just didn't work out. It's not a
    sign that the talks aren't going forward.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. My time is over. They give me the two x's.
    But can I--do I--can I----
        The President. Yes, fire away. Of course you can.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Okay. Thank you, sir. You know, I mean, some
    will say that you were the first President to call for a Palestinian
    state, yet people do not see a tangible results on the ground. You're
    going now in a very tough time. Prime Minister Olmert is facing
    corruption charges. You're celebrating 60 years of Israel independence;
    for the Palestinians, 60 years of misery.

    [[Page 664]]

    What can we offer tangibly, on the ground, to the Palestinians that will
    say, George Bush did this for us?
        The President. No, I appreciate that very much. One is a security
    force that can respond to the--Prime Minister Fayyad's work and President Abbas's
    desires. I mean, it's--in other words, people want to see whether or not
    the state is capable of protecting them. And therefore, as this
    Palestinian force gets more capable, we expect the Israelis to move
    back, and move back to the point where the state can actually begin to
    function a little bit in the West Bank.
        Secondly, economic development--I mean, people are wondering, okay,
    it's great; Bush shows up; he talks about a Palestinian state, but where
    are the tangible benefits? And so the idea of working these
    entrepreneurial programs or some of these programs that my friend Tony
    Blair is doing--who I will meet with, by the way,
    just to get a sense for how we can advance them.
        But I fully understand your question. And your question is: All we
    hear is talk; when are we going to see action? Well, part of the plan is
    for people to see better life. And the other part of the plan is for
    there to be a clearly defined state, so it's no longer just a two-state
    solution, it's: ``Here's what the borders will look like; here's how
    we're going to deal with the refugees; here's how we're going to deal
    with the different, complicated issues''--so people could actually see
    and analyze, do I want this, or do I want what's happening in Gaza, for
    example. And given that choice, I'm confident, having met a lot of
    Palestinians and know the Palestinians fairly well, about how people
    just want peace. They want their children to grow up in peace, and they
    want to be able to make a living.
        Look, the Palestinians are very entrepreneurial and--people. They
    know how to make a good living, and that's all they want. And moms want
    their kids to go to schools--and without fear of violence and fear of
    poverty and fear of disease. And believe me, I understand that there
    needs to be a lot of work, but from my perspective, the definition--a
    clear definition of a state would be a major step forward of providing
    hope and a different vision, a different way forward.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. So the agreement still can be reached by the
    time you leave office?
        The President. Yes, I think so. That's what I'm aiming for,
    absolutely. We're pushing hard.

    President's Upcoming Visit to the Middle East/Saudi Arabia

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Just on the Saudis--also, you're visiting
    Saudi Arabia to celebrate 75 years of--[inaudible]--nations.
        The President. I am going to go to Saudi. See, I'm going to go to
    Israel, but I'm also going to two other important stops, which is Saudi
    Arabia as well as Egypt.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. And what do you hope to achieve in your visit
    with the Saudis?
        The President. Well, first of all, His Majesty--it's always a pleasure to be in his company.
    He's a dear friend of mine, and he's kindly invited me back to his farm,
    which is a great--it's an honor. And we'll talk about a lot of bilateral
    relations, visas, and different relations. And of course, he'll be very
    interested in a lot of other subjects too. He'll be interested in
    knowing about progress in the Palestinian issue. He'll be----
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Iraq?
        The President. Yes, Iraq. He'll be interested in Iran. He'll be
    interested in a lot of issues. And I'm looking forward to briefing him
    in person.

    Price and Supply of Oil

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Right. And the price of oil, would you raise
    it with him?

    [[Page 665]]

        The President. Yes. I mean, I raise it with him every time I see
    him. And it's gotten higher. And, yes, of course, I will. It's--the
    interesting thing for people to understand, though, is that there's not
    just--there's not a lot of excess capacity in the world now. Demand has
    risen so fast relative to supply that it's very tight. And there is no
    easy solution. It took us a while to get to where we are, and it's going
    to take us a while to get out of where we are.

    The Presidency and the Middle East

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Finally, what would be your advice to the
    next President regarding the Middle East? How would you----
        The President. Take the Middle East seriously because that's the
    center of--that's the place where people are--get so despondent and
    despair that they're willing to come and take lives of U.S. citizens.
        On the other hand, be hopeful, because the Middle East is full of
    really decent, honorable people that want to live in peace. And use our
    influence to promote peace, whether it would be in Iraq, Lebanon,
    Palestinian Territories, or elsewhere.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you very much.
        The President. Yes, ma'am.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

    Note: The interview was taped at 12:09 p.m. in the Map Room at the White
    House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipora ``Tzipi''
    Livni of Israel; former Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei (Abu Ala), Prime
    Minister Salam Fayyad, and President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian
    Authority; former Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom,
    Quartet Representative in the Middle East; and King Abdallah bin Abd al-
    Aziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia. Ms. Bilbassy Charters referred to
    Parliament Members Sa'ad al-Din al-Hariri and Walid Jumblatt of Lebanon;
    former Israeli Defense Force Chief of Staff Amnon Lipkin-Shahak; and
    Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel.