    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2008, Book I)]
    [January 4, 2008]
    [Pages 26-32]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Nadia Bilbassy Charters of Al Arabiya Television
    January 4, 2008

    Middle East Peace Process

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Mr. President, thank you very much for your
    time, as always, and thank you for the interview.
        The President. Thank you.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. The major obstacle to peace is the settlement
    activities. Would you request from Prime Minister Olmert a freeze on the
    settlements?
        The President. I think the major obstacle to peace is going to be
    the politics of both Palestinians and Israelis trying to take advantage
    of the difficult work that these two leaders are going to have to
    do to define a state; that's what I think. I think that

    [[Page 27]]

    extremists, in some instances, will try to stop the peace. I believe
    there is a lot of forces at play in Israel that will try to stop these
    two men from defining what a state will look like. And my job is to help
    them stay on the big picture and have the confidence necessary to make
    tough decisions.
        No question, the settlement activity is a problem. But there's a
    mechanism to deal with that, and that is the roadmap commission, for the
    best word--is the trilateral commission, which we head, to deal with
    these roadmap issues. Now, we can solve those--we can work through those
    problems, but the key is to define a state. Now is the time.
        And I believe it's going to get done before my Presidency is over.
    And the reason I believe it is because these two men, with whom I've spent a
    fair amount of time, are committed. The state will come into being
    subject to a roadmap. But the first step is to define what is possible;
    here's what a state will look like. And that is very important for both
    the Palestinians and the Israelis.

    Middle East Peace Process/President's Upcoming Visit to the Middle East

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Well, in this case, what is exactly your
    strategy to implement your vision of a Palestinian state by 2008?
        The President. Well, the key is for me to convince the two leaders to work
    through the hard issues. I'll help them, but in order for there to be
    lasting peace, they've got to come to the table; they have got to
    negotiate it. And what ends up happening in this process is that the
    leaders will commit, and then they'll get their committees to work, and
    it gets stuck. And that's when I'll have to work with Condi Rice to unstick it, just to keep it moving.
        One thing is, is that they know that they've got a good partner in
    peace in me. They also know that I'm not going to be in office a year
    from now, so there's a certain urgency to get this state defined. And my
    trip is going to be to just kind of keep momentum. The Annapolis
    conference was a successful conference for two reasons: One, it was a
    chance for the Palestinians and the Israelis to know that the United
    States is serious about helping them, and equally importantly, it gave
    the world a chance to come to the table. The rest of the Middle East was
    there, and that's an important movement. It's going to be important for
    both Israel and the Palestinians to know that an agreement they reach
    will be supported by the Middle East.
        And so part of my--one of the goals of my trip is to remind our
    friends and allies in the Middle East that they have got to be
    supportive of the Middle East peace process as well. They're going to
    want to know whether or not I'm going to push. And I'm going to want to
    know--and I'm going to tell them, yes, I am, but we expect you to be
    constructive players too.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Exactly, but, I mean, can you elaborate a
    little bit about this? I mean, what more can you do? I mean, support is
    enough? I mean, one visit is enough? Will you be involved----
        The President. But you see, to get it to this place--I mean, a visit
    is important, but I'm on the phone a lot, and Condi is on the phone a lot. There's a little--look,
    visits are important, obviously. And there's a reason why the timing of
    this visit is what it is. I mean, there was an intifada when I first
    came into office. Secondly, the--that there is a philosophical change
    about a two-state solution. I mean, I supported it as the first American
    President ever to support it. The Israelis, under Ariel Sharon, came to the conclusion that this is in their interests.
        We're pushing a lot, let me put it to you that way. I repeat to you,
    though, that the notion that somehow America can impose its will on two
    parties, I don't think it works. I think the--America can facilitate.
    And so you just got to--I hope that

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    as a result of this interview and my trip, the people come away with the
    notion that George Bush understands now is the time to move.

    Freedom Agenda

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. I mean, people know that you are close friend
    of Israel. What would you want to do to win hearts and minds of the
    Palestinians, to assure them that the United States is a fair broker in
    the peace process?
        The President. You know, I've heard that. I've heard that, ``Well,
    George Bush is so pro-Israeli he doesn't--he can't possibly care about
    the plight of the Palestinian person.'' I would hope that my record, one
    of liberation and--liberation, by the way, not only from dictatorship,
    but from the disease around the world, like HIV/AIDS or malaria--is one
    that will say to people, he cares about the human condition, that he
    cares about each individual, that my religion teaches me to love your
    neighbor.
        I have spoken clearly about my belief that--I believe--I pray to the
    same God as a Muslim prays--that the freedom agenda is really aimed at
    liberating people, and that the hope is, is that there will be an
    active, real Palestinian state so people can realize their dreams. But
    they're going to have to be--they're going to have to do some work.
    They're going to have to have security forces that protect the average
    person. They're going to have to have institutions that bring confidence
    for the Palestinians. They have to have the ability to attract
    investment. The Palestinians are great entrepreneurs, and if just given
    a chance, I'm confident the business community will flourish. And most
    importantly, though, they're going to have to reject the extremists who
    murder innocent people. And by the way, we're engaged in a great
    ideological struggle.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Absolutely. I mean, in retrospect, would you
    regret not being involved earlier in the peace process, 7 years ago?
        The President. I think that you would find that I have been very
    much involved in the peace process when you look at the facts. I mean,
    attitudinal changes don't happen overnight. And the reason we've been
    able to have this successful conference in Annapolis is because people's
    attitudes lined up in--kind of in the same direction. There was common
    interests; common ground has been now recognized. The two-state solution
    wasn't accepted for the first----
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. So this is the right time, you say?
        The President. ----for the couple of years of my administration. It
    took a while to convince people that the two-state solution was in the
    security interests of both parties. And plus, there was a couple of
    difficult--there was a difficult situation, the truth be known. One was
    the intifada, which made it awfully hard to discuss peace at that time.
    The other was the Iraq invasion. It just--it created the conditions that
    made it more difficult to get people's minds in the right place to begin
    the process. And so now I think we've got the stars lined up, and I
    think we got a shot, and I'm going for it.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Great. I know he's telling me----
        The President. You're fine. Go ahead.

    Iran/U.S. Foreign Policy

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you, sir. Part of the visit, as well,
    is Iran and the Gulf States. What exactly do you want from the Gulf
    States regarding Iran? And would you ask for their cooperation in case
    of a military strike?
        The President. First of all, I will assure the Gulf States that I
    believe we can solve this problem diplomatically. Secondly, I will--
    they're going to want more from me than I'm going to want from them.
    They're going to want to know what this NIE was all about.

    [[Page 29]]

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Exactly.
        The President. And I'm going to remind them that at my press
    conference when I explained the NIE, I clearly said, Iran was, is, and
    will be a danger if they're allowed to enrich, because they can take the
    knowledge on how to enrich and convert it to a covert program. If
    they've had one--a program once, they can easily start a program.
        And so I view the Iranian regime as a danger. I also believe that
    the Iranian people are not bad--they're good people--and that they can
    have a better way forward. We'll tell our--I'm sure the--our friends and
    allies will say: ``Well, what are you going to do about it? It's one
    thing to define the problem, do you have a strategy? And if you say you
    can solve it diplomatically, what is your strategy?'' And I'll explain
    the strategy of economic isolation, that--you know, it's sad; we really
    don't need to have to be in this position. If the Iranian Government
    would suspend their enrichment programs, like the international
    community has demanded, there's a better way forward for them.
        But they say that they need this program. And my answer is, is that
    if you need it, then why haven't you been transparent and disclosed it
    and honest about it? And what were you doing with a military--secret
    military program in the first place?
        And so I view Iran as a danger; I truly do. And I don't view the
    people as a danger, I view the Government as a danger.

    Iran/President's Upcoming Visit to the Middle East

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Of course. But will it be harder for you to
    try to convince the Gulf States what--the American position after the
    intelligence report?
        The President. The fact that I'm having to explain it means it's
    harder after the report. But I believe I'll be able to convince them.
    What they want to know is whether or not I think they're a danger. They
    know Iran can be a danger. They want to know whether I think it's a
    danger and are we committed to helping people achieve security. And part
    of the trip is to tell people, yes, we've got--we are engaged to help
    you, if you want our help to enhance security.
        Now, look, nobody wants to be dictated to, and I'm certainly not
    going to do that. I am there to reassure and to look people in the eye
    and say, I believe Iran is a threat, we have a strategy to deal with it,
    and we want to work with you.

    U.S. Foreign Policy

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Did you ever discuss a military option with
    the Gulf States?
        The President. Will I ever do that?
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Did you, or will you?
        The President. No, I haven't, because I believe we can solve this
    diplomatically. On the other hand, as you've heard me say many times
    since you cover the White House, that all options must be on the table
    in order to make sure diplomacy is effective.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Absolutely. Secretary Gates told Al Arabiya
    in an interview recently that the diplomatic option is still 100 percent
    in focus. Does that mean that you're going to still pressure Iran on the
    diplomatic front? And how far can you go before your patience will run
    out?
        The President. Yes, definitely. We'll continue to pressure them on
    the diplomatic front. And it's hard, because sometimes people are more
    interested in market share for their goods than they are for achieving
    peace. And so I've spent a lot of time with allies in Europe, for
    example, convincing them of the importance of working together to send a
    common message to the Iranian regime. So yes, the diplomatic option is
    on the table, and it's active, and we're working hard.

    [[Page 30]]

    Syria/Lebanon's Presidential Election

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. On the Syria issue--I don't know if I'm
    allowed to ask one----
        The President. Keep going.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. I'm sorry.
        The President. All you got to do is ask; I'll handle it. [Laughter]
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you, sir. Thank you. On the Syria
    issue, I mean, we already talked about--you actually told me that you--
    patience with Asad is running out. But we still have no Lebanese
    election.
        The President. Yes.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. What does it mean? What can you do? Is it
    negotiation? Is it a military strike? Is it sanction against Syria? What
    can you do?
        The President. Well, what we can do is make sure that the world
    understands our position and try to convince them that we ought to work
    together to say to the Syrians, let Sleiman
    go forward. That's the President that the people want there in Beirut,
    and he ought to go forward. And that's going to be on my agenda when I
    talk to friends and allies in the Middle East, that--and we can
    collectively send the message to President Asad.
        We've sanctioned Syria, and I'm looking at different ways to keep
    sending a tough message because, so far, he has shown no willingness to
    be constructive on Lebanon or in dealing with a militant Hamas or in
    stopping suiciders from heading into Iraq--in other words, some
    reasonable things that we would like to see done in order to improve
    relations which he has not done.
        We're working very carefully--closely with the French, for example.
    I've had a conversation with President Sarkozy on the subject. I'll be talking to my friend King
    Abdallah of Saudi
    Arabia on the subject, who has got a very keen interest in seeing to it
    that the Lebanese democracy goes forward. And so we've got a very good
    chance to have a more focused, concerted, universal message that
    President Asad, I hope, will listen to.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. But some will say they might wait for another
    year until you leave office, and then----
        The President. Well, he could try that.
    But in the meantime, there will be others around who he will have
    irritated as a result of his stubbornness. And so yes, I mean, he could
    try to wait me out, but there's other leaders in the world that are as
    equally concerned as I am about Syria not letting the Presidency go
    forward and really hurting this very important democracy in the Middle
    East.
        Lebanon's survival as a democracy is, in my judgment, very important
    for the world. And Syria is--has been--when we passed the resolution out
    of the United Nations, it worked. President Chirac and I worked together, got our foreign ministries
    working together, and it worked. And yet as opposed to honoring the
    notion of staying out of the--and to stop obstructing politics--Syria
    has just not been helpful at all.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. So will you impose sanction on Syria?
        The President. We have already, and we're looking at different
    options, of course.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. A tougher sanction.
        The President. Well, we're always looking for ways to make sure that
    we're effective. It's--sanctions, individual sanctions are okay. They're
    much more effective when they're--other people join along.

    President's Upcoming Visit to the Middle East/Lebanon

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Absolutely. To show that you actually
    supporting Prime Minister Siniora, why not visiting Lebanon on this
    trip?
        The President. Good question. You have to just--I've got only so
    much time. There's other countries I won't be going to either. We've had
    plenty of high-ranking officials go to support Prime Minister
    Siniora. I

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    think about Condi, and I think about
    Admiral Fallon, who I sent over there to
    help analyze what the Lebanese forces need.
        Listen, I was very impressed when Prime Minister Siniora made the decision to move Lebanese forces into the
    extremist stronghold and dealt with them. That's what you're supposed to
    do. And in order to have a safe and secure society, the state has got to
    show that it can provide security for the people and not tolerate
    pockets of extreme radicals who are murderous in their intentions, and
    he did. And right after that, I sent Admiral Fallon in to say, look, we need to help strengthen this man. He
    showed courage and leadership, and he needs to have a military that is
    able to function at the behest of a state to provide security. And so
    we're in the process of inventorying and analyzing and seeing how we can
    help from that perspective.

    Lebanon's Presidential Election

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. But do you hope the election will go forward
    in Lebanon?
        The President. Soon. I was hoping it would go forward last week.
    They keep delaying it, and I'm convinced a lot of it has to do with the
    fact that Syria is not helpful. And therefore, part of our strategy is
    to get others to send the same message that I've consistently been
    sending to President Asad: If you want to be
    isolated, if you want to be--or if you want--you have a choice: Do you
    want to be isolated, or a part of the world? You can make the choice.
    You can hang out with a limited number of friends, like Iran, or you can
    have better relations in the neighborhood and in the world. It's your
    choice to make.
        Step one is to get out of the way of these Presidential elections.
    They've got a good candidate. A lot of people
    agree that this is the person, and now Syria needs to get out of the
    way.

    Progress in Iraq

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Sir, on the Iraq issue, the security has
    improved. Does that mean you're going to withdraw troops by the end of
    the year?
        The President. Our troops decisions will be made based upon the
    considered recommendations of our commanders. And success in Iraq is
    essential, and therefore, I'll make the decisions along with those
    recommendations based upon success. The surge has been successful. The
    economy is getting better, and the politics is getting better. There is
    still a lot of work to be done, however, and I am--you know what thrills
    me the most is that the average Iraqi's life is becoming more hopeful.
        Here's what I tell people. I tell people here in America that an
    Iraqi mother wants the same thing for her children that an American
    mother wants: the chance for that child to grow up in peace and to
    realize dreams; a chance for the child to go outside and play and not
    fear harm. And it's beginning to happen. The average--you know, it's
    still tough. There's still too many suiciders, but the level of violence
    is declining. I didn't see this, but I was told that the celebrations at
    New Year's Eve in Baghdad were festive. And life is coming back, and
    it's--that's exciting to me.

    Military Operations in Iraq

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. And just to follow up on that, the generals
    were saying that Iran and Syria actually has been playing a role in
    stopping the suiciders of coming to Iraq. Would you credit them for that
    at least?
        The President. I'm not willing to credit the Iranians yet. I don't
    have enough evidence. One general said
    that, then he corrected his story. I think so long as we're finding
    sophisticated IEDs--that could only have been manufactured in Iran, that
    are killing innocent people inside Iraq--that's cause for concern. I'm
    willing to have dialogues with the Iranians about Iraq in Iraq, but our
    message will be, if we catch you providing arms and trained--training
    people, then we'll--we're going to hold them to account. You just got to
    understand that.

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        I would give--if, in fact, Syria is trying to stop suiciders, I will
    give them credit, of course. I hope that's the case. It's certainly one
    way to begin to earning better relations with the United States, is to
    stop the exportation of suiciders who go kill innocent people.
        And I'm looking forward to the trip. I'm glad you're going.

    President's Legacy

        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Me too. Finally, how do you want the people
    in the Middle East to remember you, sir?
        The President. History is odd. I will be long gone before the true
    history of the Bush administration is written. I'm still reading
    analyses of Abraham Lincoln's Presidency. I would hope, at least, at the
    very minimum, people would say that George W. Bush respected my religion
    and has great concern for the human condition; that he hurts when he
    sees poverty and hopelessness; that he's a realistic guy, because he
    understands that the only way that these extremists who murder the
    innocent can recruit is when you find--when they find hopeless
    situations--they have no vision that's positive; and that he helped
    present an alternative, and that was one based upon liberty and the
    rights of men and women in a just and free society. That's how I hope
    you remember me.
        Ms. Bilbassy Charters. Thank you very much, sir, for your time and
    for your generosity. Thank you very much.

    Note: The interview was taped at 4:37 p.m. in the Map Room at the White
    House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
    President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority; Prime Minister
    Ehud Olmert and former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel; Gen.
    Michel Sleiman, commander, Lebanese Armed Forces; President Bashar al-
    Asad of Syria; President Nicolas Sarkozy and former President Jacques
    Chirac of France; Prime Minister Fuad Siniora of Lebanon; Adm. William
    J. ``Fox'' Fallon, USN, commander, U.S. Central Command; and Gen. David
    H. Petraeus, USA, commanding general, Multi-National Force--Iraq. The
    transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on January
    6.