[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2007, Book II)]
[November 6, 2007]
[Pages 1435-1439]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Patrick Poivre d'Arvor 
of TF1 Television of France
November 6, 2007

France-U.S. Relations

    Mr. d'Arvor. Mr. President, good evening.
    The relations between France and the United States for a long time 
had cooled down for quite some time, for about 3 years, since the 
intervention in Iraq and since the opposition of three major countries: 
Russia, Germany, and France. And this quote was lent to your 
administration, whereby we should forgive Russia, forget Germany, and 
punish France--and France was punished for its rebelliousness. And 
number two, is the punishment over?
    The President. First of all, I never really felt that a disagreement 
over Iraq should yield a rupture in relations. I fully understand why 
people disagree with my decision, and so I never really subscribed to 
that theory. So there's no punishment, really, in my--from my 
perspective.
    Secondly, I value the relationship a lot. And the United States and 
France have had a long history. After all, much of our independence was 
achieved as a result of the aid of the French. And we have been through 
wars together; we've had our agreements and our disagreements. So I've 
really worked hard to make sure the relationship was bigger than the 
individuals.
    Having said that, you've got a new President who brings an energy level that is exciting----

President Nicolas Sarkozy of France

    Mr. d'Arvor. Has that changed the situation somewhat, given the fact 
that Mr. Sarkozy has replaced Mr. Chirac?
    The President. Of course, in the sense that every individual 
matters. In other words, I've dealt with a lot of foreign leaders, and 
some--and each person brings their own set of personalities and values. 
And President Sarkozy is a man of deep values. He's got a lot of energy. 
He's a lot of fun to be around. Plus, he's a serious man, and he wants 
to--so he's like me; he wants to solve problems--``Here is a problem, 
let's go solve it.''
    And so I'm looking forward to visiting with him. The relationship is 
good, and I intend to work to keep it that way.

Iraq

    Mr. d'Arvor. With distance, do you think that the French arguments 
at the time--whereby there were no weapons of mass destruction, which 
was proven; there's no

[[Page 1436]]

direct relationship with the September 11th attacks. So do you think 
that these arguments were justified? So don't you regret it after all?
    The President. No, I don't at all. Absolutely, getting rid of Saddam 
Hussein was the right thing to do. Now, first of all, nobody ever said 
that the September 11th attacks were ordered by Saddam. That's myth. 
That was never part of my argument.
    And secondly, I did go to the United Nations Security Council--and 
1441 was supported by the French--which said, disclose, disarm, or face 
serious consequences. You wouldn't say that if you didn't believe he had 
weapons of mass destruction.
    Now, in hindsight, he didn't. Do I think the world is better off 
without him? Absolutely. I know Iraq is as well. And so my decision was 
the right decision.
    Again, I understand why people don't like the use of armed force. 
That's natural. On the other hand, the liberation of 25 million people 
is noble. And now the question is, will we work together to help this 
young democracy survive in the face of extremists and radicals who kill 
the innocent in order to achieve their political objectives?
    And I can't thank President Sarkozy 
enough for sending the Foreign Minister to 
Baghdad, which basically said, we want to help you survive. We think 
democracy is a great alternative to the ideology of mass murderers. And 
that's the question we're faced with, those of us who live in the free 
world: Are we willing to help others realize the blessings of freedom 
for the sake of peace?

Iraq/War on Terror/Spread of Democracy

    Mr. d'Arvor. But your father, during the first gulf war, had stopped 
at the doors of Baghdad. He left Saddam in sight, weakened, in power. So 
why didn't you do the same thing as him? Did you speak with him? Did he 
tell you, son, you can do what I did not do 10 years ago? So ultimately, 
don't you wonder as to that may not be what actually destabilized the 
region ultimately?
    The President. No. I think there is--what we're witnessing is a 
great clash between radicals and extremists who murder and people who 
want to live in peace. And the situation was different in 1991 than it 
was in 2003. After all, the United States has been attacked, and I said 
that we're going to deal with threats before they fully materialize. 
It's one of the lessons of September the 11th.
    Saddam Hussein was given a chance to disclose or disarm. He chose 
not to. He was the one who, once again, defied the world. He's the one 
who basically said, I don't care what the United Nations said and what 
France and the United States and everybody else on the Security Council 
said. And so I'm very comfortable with the decision I made.
    But you say, does this cause there to be radicalism that causes the 
murder of the--causes people to lose their life? Absolutely not. What 
causes people to become radicals is when they become hopeless and 
frustrated and fall prey to the whims and desires of a bunch of 
ideologues who murder innocent people--whether it be in Iraq today or in 
Afghanistan today or whether it be in Lebanon or whether it be in the 
Palestinian Territories--all trying to stop the advent of democracy 
because they can't stand the thought of free societies in their midst.
    And the challenge for those of us who live in free societies, like I 
said, and the challenge for President Sarkozy and George W. Bush and other leaders is, are we going 
to sit back and not care whether people live in freedom, or are we going 
to help them realize the blessings of liberty? Because liberty will 
yield the peace we want.

Iran

    Mr. d'Arvor. So to a certain extent, you did contribute to giving 
greater power to Iran, because it no longer is facing its hated enemy on 
the other side. So now is there

[[Page 1437]]

a true threat in Iran, and are you ready now to invade Iran as you did 
with Afghanistan and Iraq? So it is indeed true that Vice President--is 
it true that Vice President Cheney has a plan for that?
    The President. Gosh, I don't know where you're getting all these 
rumors--there must be some weird things going on in Europe these days--
because I have made it abundantly clear, now is the time to deal with a 
true threat to world peace, that's Iran, and to do it diplomatically and 
peacefully. And that's what I'm going to spend a lot of time on with 
President Sarkozy. But of course, we want to 
solve these problems peacefully.
    Mr. d'Arvor. But if it doesn't work, if the sanctions and the 
threats do not work, what happens?
    The President. Well, we are going to--as I said, all options are on 
the table. But the objective is to make them work. I mean, I'm not so 
sure I agree with your hypothesis that--``if they don't work.'' I'm the 
kind of guy that says, let's make sure they do work. And that's what I 
intend to talk to President Sarkozy about 
and Angela Merkel about, and that is to keep 
the international pressure and to keep the focus on the ambitions of an 
Iranian regime that has publicly declared its intention to destroy 
Israel, for example, and have defied the demands of the IAEA. And so 
they're not trusted--to be trusted with a enrichment program. We made 
that abundantly clear to them. And I believe we can solve this problem 
diplomatically.
    But to say that to enhance a free society on Iran's border 
strengthens the Iranians is just not true. I simply don't buy into that 
logic--or illogic, in this case. I think a free society on Iran's border 
is going to be--make their life more difficult. I think that, 
ultimately, they're going to feel pressure about the type of government 
they have when their people look across the border and see a 
flourishing, free society.
    And so our policy is to work with friends and allies to say to the 
people, here is a problem, let's work collaboratively to address it, and 
now, early.

U.S. Image Abroad

    Mr. d'Arvor. But in spite of all your efforts, the United States 
today have a worse image today than they had 7 years ago. People find 
Americans less likable pretty much everywhere in the world. Do you have 
your own share of responsibility, or is this inevitable because the 
United States is the most powerful country in the world?
    The President. Look, first of all, I think most people respect 
America, and they like Americans. They may not necessarily like the 
President. And so--but I've always been the kind of person, Patrick, to 
make decisions based upon what's right, as opposed to trying to be the 
popular guy. I've always found the person who strives for popularity----

U.S. Foreign Policy/Freedom Agenda

    Mr. d'Arvor. In the past, we used to say that the American Dream was 
freedom, but today it seems to be repression, more self-focused society.
    The President. Oh, no, that's absurd. That's absurd to say the 
American Dream is repression. Freedom is the absolute we're helping 
people achieve. That's--think about what's happening with 25 million 
people in Iraq or 25 million people in Afghanistan or the fact that the 
United States is freeing people from the scourge of HIV/AIDS. We're 
spending $30 billion, when Congress passes my budget, to help people on 
HIV/AIDS--or the fact that we've got a $1.6 billion program to help 
people who are--families who are suffering as a result of a child dying 
from malaria. In other words, we've got a very aggressive freedom 
agenda. And if you come to the United States, you'll find that you can 
practice your religion any way you see fit, that this is an open society 
and a free society.
    And so yes, I understand people's--the image may not be as good as 
one would like, but people respect what America

[[Page 1438]]

stands for. They may not like the decisions I have made, but I don't see 
how you can be a leader if you worry about public opinion polls all the 
time, particularly in a world in which there's a lot of problems that 
require strong leadership.

President's Legacy

    Mr. d'Arvor. And what legacy, what record would you like to leave in 
history? You've spent 7 years in the White House. You'll be leaving in a 
year. What would you like the memory, the souvenir of you to remain?
    The President. Well, certainly the fact that 50 million people have 
been liberated; that we've got a very strong relationship in the Far 
East; that we're friends with China, Japan, and South Korea--something 
that's been hard for other Presidents to do. I think we can help stand 
up a Palestinian state. I'm the first President ever to have articulated 
a two-party state, two states side by side in peace. Our HIV/AIDS 
initiative is very strong. I mean, we're leading the world when it comes 
to helping feed the hungry or take care of those who are ill. I think 
our malaria initiative will go down in history as a great initiative.
    And at home, some of my education initiatives and the fact that our 
economy has grown, in spite of recession, corporate scandals, and war 
and the attack on America. See, I'm a tax cutter. I believe when people 
have more money in their pockets, they do better.
    And so I'm--you know, it's an interesting thing about history. 
You're really not going to know the history of the Bush administration 
until long after you and I are dead. There's no such thing as accurate, 
short-term history. It takes a while for people to see the results of 
decisions having been made.
    And so I'm very comfortable, Patrick. I feel comfortable that the 
decisions I have made have been in the best interests of the country. 
I've been comfortable that I've had to deal with some tough problems, 
and I didn't shy away from the problems; I tackled them head on. And I 
love my country, and I love what we stand for.

2008 Presidential Election

    Mr. d'Arvor. And last question, who would you like to see as your 
replacement in 1 year? A Republican? A Democrat?
    The President. Of course a Republican. But I'm not--you're trying to 
get me to take sides.
    Mr. d'Arvor. You prefer Republican.
    The President. Absolutely, a Republican.
    Mr. d'Arvor. A woman? An African American? A veteran? Do you have a 
choice? Are there any people that you like more than others?
    The President. Now, see, you're trying to cleverly draw me into the 
race for the Presidency. And one of the things that I have told the 
American people is, I'm going to watch the Republican primaries unfold 
and not take positions and then go out and help my party's nominee win. 
And I think we will win the White House. I think whoever will get 
nominated from our party will win, because the big issues in America are 
who's going to be tough in this war on terror and who's going to protect 
our homeland and will they keep taxes low. And our candidates will be 
willing to take those positions in a way that appeals to the American 
people.
    But anyway, nice try trying to get me to endorse a candidate.

President's Vacation/France-U.S. Relations

    Mr. d'Arvor. We saw a French President spend his summer vacations 
this year in the United States. So when will George W. Bush spend his 
vacations in France?
    The President. Thank you very much. As you know, I'm a--I've got a 
piece of property I love in Texas----
    Mr. d'Arvor. It's large.
    The President. ----very much, and when I do, I like to go down 
there. But I would

[[Page 1439]]

love to come back to France. It's a beautiful country. I've had some 
really good experiences there, and I've found the people to be very 
friendly.
    And, look, I understand there's disagreements. But from my 
perspective, the people of France really do respect what America has 
stood for and respect our alliance. And I was greeted with great respect 
when I went there. And so I'd like to come back sometimes.
    And I'm looking forward to my meeting with President 
Sarkozy. It's going to be a constructive 
meeting.
    Mr. d'Arvor. Once again, thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank 
you very much for hosting us.
    The President. Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
    Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you very much.
    The President. You bet.
    Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you.

Note: The interview was taped at 2:12 p.m. in the Map Room at the White 
House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to 
Minister of Foreign and European Affairs Bernard Kouchner of France; and 
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. Mr. d'Arvor referred to former 
President Jacques Chirac of France. Portions of the Mr. d'Arvor's 
remarks were in French, and no translation was provided. The transcript 
was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on November 7. A 
portion of this interview could not be verified because the tape was 
incomplete.