[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2007, Book II)]
[October 4, 2007]
[Pages 1280-1290]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Elie Nakouzi of Al Arabiya
October 4, 2007

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, it's nice to see you. It's nice to meet 
you. And how are you doing?
    The President. Welcome. Come on in the Oval Office. I'm doing great. 
Thank you. I welcome you here. And I thank you for the opportunity to 
talk to you about some of the decisions that I have made right here in 
this Oval Office. I'm honored you've come.

President's Decisionmaking

    Mr. Nakouzi. Actually, I want to tell the people of the Middle East 
that this is the place where big decisions are made. This is the office. 
But here it comes to my mind that how hard it is on you, Mr. President, 
to take like--a big decision like war, for example--is it that easy to 
take a decision such like war----
    The President. No, it's the hardest decision a President can make. 
And when I campaigned for office, I never really thought about the 
decision to put men and women in harm's way. I never thought that that 
would happen. Circumstances changed, of course, and I had to make some 
very difficult decisions about how to protect our homeland and take 
action necessary to--the actions that, I think, will yield the peace.
    And so whether it be in Afghanistan or Iraq, I was--I have made 
those decisions. And I will tell you, they're hard decisions, because I 
understand the consequences. One of the hardest things for me is to meet 
with a mother. I met with a mother yesterday in Pennsylvania who lost 
her son in combat. And you know, those can be very tearful and emotional 
moments, and I understand that. And my--the only thing I try to do is 
provide as much comfort as I can and to assure the mom, in this case, 
that I thought the decision was necessary for peace and necessary for 
our security, and that I valued the fact that her son would volunteer, 
and that I vowed to honor that sacrifice by achieving our objectives.
    Anyway, this is the room where I make the decisions.

War on Terror

    Mr. Nakouzi. But would these moments--I mean, these emotional 
moments, would they make you reconsider or rethink about what's going on 
in our area now?
    The President. Not really. As a matter of fact, I leave most of the 
meetings reassured that the loved one, in this case, fully understanding 
what we were doing. See, I believe that, one, it's noble to liberate 25 
million people from a tyrant; two, that we cannot allow Iraq to be a 
safe haven for people who have sworn allegiance to those who have 
attacked us. In other words, I believe we must defeat the extremists 
there so we don't have to face them here at home. And three, I believe 
the spread of liberty will yield peace. And I believe the Middle East is 
plenty capable of being a part of the world where liberty flourishes. 
That's what I believe people want.
    And so I leave those meetings saddened by the fact that a person has 
pain in her heart--and yesterday she had pain in her heart--but 
encouraged by the fact that her son died for a noble cause and a 
necessary cause. And that's exactly what she told me.

Islam/Religious Freedom

    Mr. Nakouzi. Actually, I want to thank you again, Mr. President, for 
giving us the opportunity to talk for the first time to the Arab world, 
to address them with the big concerns. I know we have a great deal of 
questions. I know you have a very tight schedule----

[[Page 1281]]

    The President. Sure. I want to show you the Rose Garden, one of the 
most famous areas----
    Mr. Nakouzi. It's a great chance for me. I heard, Mr. President, 
also, that you are receiving an Iftaar----
    The President. Yes, I am.
    Mr. Nakouzi. ----in the White House, which is, of course, a Muslim 
ritual
    The President. It is.
    Mr. Nakouzi. But I want to tell you--and I hope this doesn't bother 
you at all--that in the Islamic world, they think that President Bush is 
an enemy of Islam----
    The President. Sure.
    Mr. Nakouzi. ----that he wants to destroy their religion, what they 
believe in. Is that in any way true, Mr. President?
    The President. No, it's not. I've heard that, and it just shows--to 
show a couple of things: One, that the radicals have done a good job of 
propagandizing. In other words, they've spread the word that this really 
isn't peaceful people versus radical people or terrorists; this is 
really about the--America not liking Islam.
    Well, first of all, I believe in an almighty God, and I believe that 
all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, 
prays to the same God. That's what I believe. I believe that Islam is a 
great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the 
innocent to achieve political objectives aren't religious people, 
whether they be a Christian who does that--we had a person blow up our--
blow up a Federal building in Oklahoma City who professed to be a 
Christian. But that's not a Christian act, to kill innocent people.
    Mr. Nakouzi. Exactly.
    The President. And I just simply don't subscribe to the idea that 
murdering innocent men, women, and children--particularly Muslim men, 
women, and children in the Middle East--is an act of somebody who is a 
religious person.
    We are having an Iftaar dinner tonight--I say, ``we''--it's my 
wife and I. This is the seventh one in the 7 
years I've been the President. It gives me a chance to say Ramadan 
Mubarak. The reason I do this is, I want people to understand about my 
country. In other words, I hope this message gets out of America. I want 
people to understand that one of the great freedoms in America is the 
right for people to worship any way they see fit. If you're a Muslim, an 
agnostic, a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, you're equally American.
    And the value--the most valuable thing I think about America is 
that--particularly if you're a religious person--you can be free to 
worship, and it's your choice to make. It's not the state's choice, and 
you shouldn't be intimidated after you've made your choice. And that's a 
right that I jealously guard.
    Secondly, I want American citizens to see me hosting an Iftaar 
dinner.
    Mr. Nakouzi. That's a strong message for the Americans.
    The President. It is a strong message. I want to remind your 
listeners that one of the first things I did after September the 11th 
is, I went to the local mosque. And I did because I wanted to send a 
message that those who came to kill Americans were young terrorists, and 
they do not reflect the views of the vast majority of peaceful people in 
the Middle East; and that our--precisely the message I was trying to 
send, the war is not a struggle against Muslims, the Muslim religion; it 
is a struggle of honorable, peaceful people throughout the world against 
the few who want to impose their vision.

[At this point, there was a change in location, and the interview 
resumed as follows.]

War on Terror/Progress in Iraq/Spread of Freedom

    Mr. Nakouzi. Actually, Mr. President, we are talking about these 
terrorists and what's going on in the world right now. Are you also a 
man of war, as some try to describe, President Bush?

[[Page 1282]]

    The President. Oh, no, no, I believe the actions we have taken will 
make it more likely peace happens. I dream it will be--the last thing I 
want to be is a President during war. Now, remember, we got attacked. 
And I responded, after careful deliberation, in an attempt to make sure 
that--with a strategy of protecting ourselves. We can't allow these 
people that attacked us to have safe haven. We must not give them an 
opportunity to strike us again. And therefore, it's important to keep 
the pressure on.
    On the other hand, the ultimate way for peace is for people to 
realize the great blessings of liberty. And what's interesting--and what 
has taken place ought to be hopeful to people in the Middle East--is 
that two young democracies have sprung up where people, when given a 
chance, voted. See, I believe there is a universal God. I believe the 
God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, 
we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality. And I believe 
a gift of that Almighty to every man, woman, and child is freedom; I 
really do. And I think people, if given a chance, will seize freedom. 
And it's liberty and free societies, not--they don't have to look like 
America--an Iraqi democracy is going to be Iraqi; it's going to reflect 
Iraqi traditions and Iraqi history.
    There are some universal aspects to liberty: One, people can vote; 
people can express their opinion; people can be in a free press; people 
ought to be allowed to go to the town square and protest against their 
government without fear of reprisal. And when given that opportunity, 12 
million Iraqis went to the polls.
    Mr. Nakouzi. So excuse me, Mr. President, what you're trying to say 
is, sometimes a decision of war--you have to take a decision of war in 
order to achieve peace.
    The President. That's exactly right.
    Mr. Nakouzi. And that's what happened in Iraq.
    The President. First of all, yes. I was very concerned about the 
dictator in Iraq. He was an enemy of the United States of America. He 
had ties to terrorists--I'm not saying those who attacked us on 
September the 11th, but I am saying ties to terrorists. He had a lot of 
money that he was willing to spend on weapons of mass destruction. We 
didn't find the weapons, but he certainly had the knowledge. And in my 
judgment, over time, he would have been able to develop those weapons, 
and they would have been--one thing the Middle East doesn't need is a 
nuclear arms race.

Former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq

    Mr. Nakouzi. Yes, we're going to discuss this.
    The President. Well, this guy doesn't--the man, Saddam Hussein, had 
capability; but remember, there's also a human condition. I believe in 
human rights. I believe every life has value, whether it be an American 
life or a life of a person in the Middle East. And this brutal guy 
killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. And he was unbelievably 
brutal to neighbors and, as well, to Iraqis. And there's--liberation is 
a powerful--to me, liberating people is a powerful step toward peace. I 
wish we didn't have to do this militarily. I was hoping that diplomacy 
would work. I gave diplomacy a lot of chance to work.
    Mr. Nakouzi. But it didn't.
    The President. It did not work. So the choice was his, not mine. He 
had the choice as to whether or not this issue would be resolved 
peacefully. See, that's the interesting thing that has been turned 
around. And so I don't regret the decision. As a matter of fact, I feel 
it was the right decision to this day. And now the question is, will 
America keep its commitment to the millions of Iraqis who want this 
society to work? And the answer to that is, yes, we will.

[[Page 1283]]

Iraq

    Mr. Nakouzi. And here, Mr. President, I would love to ask--I mean, 
for the Iraqis now, they know and they keep on listening to the news. 
Sometimes we tell them we want to withdraw the troops. And now we're 
talking about the partition of Iraq, which is very, very bad news for 
the Iraqis.
    The President. Yes, it is.
    Mr. Nakouzi. I know you refused this. You want the unity of Iraq. 
But what if this Iraqi--what if, in the next administration, another 
President comes to the office and believes in the partition of Iraq? 
What's going to happen then?
    The President. I don't think it will happen. I don't think it's 
going to happen.

Progress in Iraq

    Mr. Nakouzi. How do you guarantee?
    The President. Well, first of all, an American President must 
understand that Iraq is a sovereign nation operating under its own 
Constitution. And I'm very confident that the will of Iraq will prevail. 
And I know there's some noise out of here about partition. But most 
folks who follow this issue don't support partition, and they don't 
think it's a good idea.
    What Iraq is going to have to do is get the proper balance between 
the central Government and the Provinces, the very same thing we've been 
worried about here in America for years. What is the right road between 
the States and Washington? So that's a constant discussion. But that's 
what they're going to have to do in Iraq as well. And they're going to 
need the security situation such that they're able to have an honest 
political discourse.
    So our step one was to help them secure their neighborhoods--and 
it's working--and make sure these radicals, such as Al Qaida and some of 
these Shi'a groups, many of whom--which are criminal, aren't able to 
have their way with this society. And now we'll work toward helping 
these folks have the important discussion about what should be the role 
of Baghdad, or what should be the role of the Provincial governments. 
And when they get that right, when they get settled out, then I think 
you'll see a much more unified country.
    And it's going to be very hard for an American President or any 
other outside country to dictate to the Iraqis, ``Here's what your 
government must look like,'' because the Iraqis will show over time that 
they're capable of making these decisions themselves, and they are 
making hard decisions right now, by the way.

Spread of Freedom/Iraq

    Mr. Nakouzi. I know that your message, your deep message was--to the 
Arab world--was democracy, freedom, human rights. And you've said too 
many times that the first message is democracy, is that you have rights, 
you people of the Middle East, to be free. But now, is democracy still a 
priority? Because all we hear now in Iraq is, let's achieve security; 
let's achieve stability. Is democracy in the Middle East on hold now, 
waiting for security first?
    The President. Well, first of all, no. I strongly believe in the 
freedom movement. It's ingrained in my soul. It comes from my belief 
that freedom is universal. And I believe freedom is ingrained in 
everybody's soul, and if just given a chance, they'll reach for it.
    Now, in Iraq, in order for the Government to have breathing space, 
to be able to do the hard work of reconciliation so that the dreams of 
the average citizen in Iraq can be realized--which is a free society--
there's got to be security. And so security is really a step, an 
important step, in the freedom movement.
    You can't make the decisions if you're worried about getting blown 
up. And what the enemy wants to do, the enemy of a free Iraq, they want 
to create enough chaos and confusion inside Iraq that causes people to 
doubt. And they want, by the way, to kill enough innocent people that 
causes the American people to lose their patience

[[Page 1284]]

and determination to help freedom movements.
    Not every freedom movement requires military action. But freedom 
movement does require U.S. commitment to helping reformers and just the 
average citizen realize the blessings of a free society.
    And so the freedom movement is the front and center of our foreign 
policy because I understand that the peace that we want--listen, we all 
want peace, except for those who are trying----
    Mr. Nakouzi. ``Except for those,'' exactly.
    The President. But peace will succeed as more and more people become 
free.

[At this point, there was a change in location, and the interview 
resumed as follows.]

Iran

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, we have moved from the Oval Office to 
the beautiful garden, and here I would like to ask you question that go 
through the minds of the Arab world. Our world is going through very 
difficult days.
    Let me start with what people expect of me, which is Iran. Mr. 
President, have you made the decision to strike Iran, as some are 
saying, or trying to say that you will not leave your administration and 
office before you strike Iran militarily?
    The President. I have made the commitment that I would continue to 
work with the world to speak with one voice to the Iranians, to the 
Iranian Government, that we will work in ways that we can to make it 
clear to you that you should not have the know-how on how to make a 
weapon, because one of the great threats to peace and the world would be 
if Iranians showed up with a nuclear weapon. It would give them an 
opportunity to blackmail or threaten or possibly follow through with 
their stated objective, which is the destruction of Israel.
    I, of course, said all options are on the table, but I made a pledge 
to the American people, we will work diplomatically to solve the 
problem. And that's why you see us at the United Nations working with 
the EU countries and China and Russia to send that clear message, and 
that we're going to continue to impose sanctions and make it harder for 
the Iranian Government to operate in the world until they change their 
mind, until they come to a new way forward. I have said that if they 
suspend their nuclear program, we will be at the table. But they have so 
far refused to do that.
    I've also spoken to the Iranian people. And I want to make it clear 
to the people of Iran that the United States respects Iran, respects the 
people, respects the proud tradition, and that the Government of Iran 
has taken decisions that make it harder for them to live their lives. 
It's the decisions of the Government of Iran that have led to the 
isolation of the country. And that if this Government would only be 
responsible, would listen to the world, would not continue its weapons 
program--the idea of being able to have the capacity to make a weapon--
then there's a better way forward for the Iranian people.
    Mr. Nakouzi. But, Mr. President, is there a redline, either a 
timeline or redline--I hear from analysts that Iran wants today, or at 
least trying today to buy time in order for you to wait--to lose the 
time that you can make a big decision, such as going to war. In your 
judgment, is there a timetable? Is there a ceiling that if negotiations 
would fail, a decision to go to war would be made?
    The President. The Iranian regime must understand that I'm dedicated 
to the proposition that they should not continue their desire to enrich, 
as will be people that follow me in office. There is universal concern 
about Iranian ambition here in America. This is not a party issue, an 
issue between one party or the other. When the Iranian President announces to the world that he's going to 
destroy an ally or announces to the world that he will end up defying 
the world--that--no matter who the President is, there is going to be a 
continued focus

[[Page 1285]]

and effort to achieve this issue, to resolve this issue.
    Mr. Nakouzi. This issue, before I move to Iraq, which also, a lot of 
Iraqis are waiting for this--is there--there are some leaking to the 
press, and particularly the Arabic press--is it true that you have 
issued orders, Mr. President, to your senior generals in the American 
military to prepare for a major and precise strike that could happen 
during the end of January or February?
    The President. I would call that empty propaganda. Evidently, 
there's a lot of gossip in parts of the country--world that try to scare 
people about me, personally, or my country or what we stand for. And 
that kind of gossip is just what it is: It's gossip; it's baseless 
gossip.

Progress in Iraq

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, we have talked about Iraq. And you have 
tried to give us a message to assure the Iraqi people--when we were in 
the garden together--that you do not believe in the partition or the 
division of Iraq. And this is a very controversial issue in Iraq. And it 
is scary to even some of the leadership in Iraq. Just to continue and 
follow up with that issue, did we reach what we reached because of 
American mistakes or because of Iraqi mistakes and the Iraqi Government?
    The President. I think, first of all, the successes in Iraq have 
been really quite extraordinary. One, the people of Iraq no longer have 
to live under a dictatorship, a brutal dictatorship. Secondly, the Iraqi 
people wrote and ratified a modern Constitution. Thirdly, there is a 
Government that is in place that is beginning to take on the 
responsibilities of governing. For example, quite a few billions have 
been spent in the Provinces by the central Government. That doesn't get 
any focus, but there is a functioning Government; there is revenue 
sharing; there is money to the Provinces.
    There is still work to be done, no question about it. But the 
biggest problem facing Iraq was because killers, bombers decided to 
murder innocent people in order to stop progress. So what I tell people 
is, is that the reason why there hasn't been smooth progress--and by the 
way, it's hard to transition from a dictatorship to a Iraqi democracy--
but the main problem has been not the Iraqis or not the United States, 
but it's been the fact that people have murdered.
    For example, what I find appalling is that Al Qaida bombed a holy 
site, a Muslim holy site; that there have been bombs in markets where 
innocent people are shopping and young children get destroyed by 
Muslim--people who profess to be Muslims. Their hearts are so hardened 
that they're willing to kill innocent people.
    And so the task is to deny these people their ability to blow up the 
innocent. And that's exactly what's happening because of Iraqi bravery 
and Iraqi forces and a commitment by the Government to deal with 
murderers. See, I believe murderers murder, and it doesn't matter 
whether you're a Shi'a murderer or a Sunni murderer or a Christian 
murderer, you're a murderer. And the role of a state is to protect the 
innocent people from those murderers. And that's what you're seeing 
taking place in Iraq. But in the meantime, government is beginning to 
function better.
    But people shouldn't be surprised that it's not instant democracy. 
First of all, the leaders never have had any practice with democracy, 
and they're learning to get along after years of tension and resentment. 
I support Prime Minister Maliki strongly, 
and I support the Presidency Council strongly. I just had President 
Talabani in to the Oval Office the other day. 
And the reason I do is because--I look for courage and commitment. And 
these leaders are courageous men, and they're committed to a free Iraq. 
Has it been perfect progress? No. Is there more work to be done? You bet 
there's more work to be done. But are

[[Page 1286]]

things better--getting better over time? Yes, they are. And that's 
what's important for the American people to know. And what's important 
for the Iraqi people to know is that we're going to support them, is 
that they've got our help because we want them to succeed. We want them 
to realize their dreams.

Iraqi Leadership

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, so the words that were said attributing 
to the White House or the American position about disappointment in 
Prime Minister Maliki is not true? You are not disappointed in Prime 
Minister Maliki and this Iraqi Government yet?
    The President. I strongly support Prime Minister Maliki. Again, there's a lot of gossip here, as well as 
overseas. One of the jobs that I have to continue to do is constantly 
repeat what--the position of my Government. And the position of my 
Government is that Prime Minister Maliki is a good man who is working 
hard, and we strongly support him.
    But it's not just Prime Minister Maliki 
that we support, we also support President Talabani or Vice President Al-Mahdi or Vice President Hashimi. 
We support those who are committed to peace and committed to the welfare 
of the Iraqi people. And we support those who are willing to take on 
these extremists, the few who are murdering innocent people in order to 
create chaos and confusion inside of Iraq. Again, I repeat: The 
situation is not perfect, but our country is not perfect. And I'm proud 
of the courage of the Iraqi citizens.
    The Iraqis have been through a lot of bloodshed and violence, and 
yet they're still strong in their desire to achieve. The Iraqis will be 
successful.

Lebanese Elections

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, let's move to Lebanon. And a lot of 
Lebanese are waiting. You have met with Mr. Sa'ad Hariri today, and they 
are all talking about the upcoming elections in Lebanon that could or 
could not happen. Does President Bush have a specific, preferred 
candidate in Lebanon that you wanted to support for the Presidency of 
Lebanon? Is there going to be elections in Lebanon that will take place?
    The President. No, I have no specific candidate, and I told that to 
Sa'ad Hariri. I have a deep desire 
to help the Lebanese democracy succeed. I am deeply concerned about 
foreign interference into the Presidential election. I am concerned that 
neighboring countries will try to create instability so that this 
democracy doesn't succeed, just like I'm deeply concerned that there's 
been murder on the streets of Beirut, including Sa'ad Hariri's dad, and 
that the international community must follow through in an expeditious 
way--must follow through quickly in holding--in having an international 
tribunal, so that those who murdered--so that the facts come out and 
those who murdered would be held to account.
    There's just too many parliamentarians who are trying to work for a 
peaceful Lebanon being assassinated. And we need to know who is doing 
that assassinations. And when they're found out, they need to be held to 
account; there needs to be a consequence. And the international 
community has been too slow in getting the international tribunal 
moving.
    Thirdly, I told Sa'ad Hariri 
that I sent one of our top military men 
into Lebanon to help them modernize their armed forces. And the reason I 
felt comfortable doing that is because Prime Minister Siniora showed courage and had--as did the Lebanese forces when 
they went out to rout out some extremists who were causing chaos or 
trying to cause chaos in Lebanon. And yet it became apparent to me that 
this military was full of courageous people but didn't have the modern 
equipment necessary to defend the country from extremists and/or 
extremists who had been funded from outside influence.

[[Page 1287]]

    This is a very difficult situation. I'm hopeful that obviously the 
Presidency will be resolved and that a unified government can move 
forward. Sa'ad Hariri shared with me 
the strategy of the March 14th coalition, and I was more than willing to 
listen. I assured him and I assure the Lebanese people that we want to 
help you succeed.

Syrian Involvement in Lebanon

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, are we able to say today, for example, 
to the Lebanese people--and we know that the United States is the most 
powerful constituency in Lebanon--can we say to the Lebanese people that 
you, specifically, Mr. President, will prevent any foreign interference 
in Lebanon that could be imposed from the outside and have a President 
that is being promoted by outside force?
    The President. I think maybe that's a promise that I'm not sure I 
could keep, because the one thing that we did was, we worked with France 
to pass a U.N. resolution to get Syria, Syrian presence, visible 
presence, out of Lebanon. However, I suspect that there's still a lot of 
Syrian influence in Lebanon that is not helpful. And one way to make it 
clear to the Asad Government that we don't 
appreciate this is for the United States to--is to analyze the sanctions 
we've placed on the Government and think about other ways to continue to 
send a message and to work with our friends, particularly in Europe, to 
send the same message. In other words, there has to be a consequence for 
continued involvement.
    And the other thing is, is that I think it's going to be an 
important signal to send--is this tribunal. The international community 
said we ought to have a tribunal. I'm frustrated frankly by the pace at 
which the tribunal is lingering; it's not moving. There needs to be a 
definitive moment where the evidence is laid out, and if it's clear 
evidence--in other words, if somebody's guilty, they ought to be held to 
account so that murder is not--so that there's this clear signal that 
murder is not going to be accepted. The brave souls of Lebanon who are 
being killed--Sa'ad Hariri's dad was 
one, blown up, murdered. Why? Because he supported democracy. Lebanese 
democracy is for freedom.
    And that ought to send a clear message to people throughout the 
world that it is so important for those of us who live in free societies 
to support brave people who are promoting liberty. This man wanted 
nothing more than the Lebanese mom to be able to raise her child in 
peace. And yet somebody ordered or somebody followed through with 
coldblooded murder to deny those dreams for the Lebanese people. And the 
same thing is happening in Iraq, and it's unacceptable behavior.
    And the United States is firm in its desire to help the average 
citizen in the Middle East live in peace. It just so happens a peaceful 
Middle East will make America more secure. So we have common interests. 
And that's really what I want the people in the Middle East to hear, 
that each issue is an issue that's got difficult problems, but there's 
an interconnection. Extremists want to stop freedom, though. And we want 
you to live in peace. And we respect your religion, and we respect your 
humanity. And our desire for you is to realize your full potential, God-
given potential.

Peace in the Middle East

    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, of course I cannot conclude this 
interview without asking the most important question, that is the issue 
of Palestine. Is President Bush convinced, truly convinced inside, that 
it is possible yet to achieve peace between Israel and Palestine? Can we 
achieve the two states, living side by side, and not as two enemies but 
two friends? Is it possible or is it difficult or impossible to achieve?
    The President. I believe in my soul, in my heart, that not only is 
it necessary that there be two states living side by side in order to 
achieve peace, but it's possible.

[[Page 1288]]

I'm very optimistic we can achieve a two-state solution.
    First, Prime Minister Olmert and President 
Abbas are committed to a two-
state solution and are making progress. We've done a lot of dialog 
between the two men, and they are making progress. And they're making 
progress that--I believe--where the average Palestinian and average 
Israeli will begin to see what a vision looks like; in other words, 
something to work for, something that's more tangible than just a Rose 
Garden speech by the President or hopeful comments by others--something 
real.
    Secondly, that--you know, we're hosting a international conference 
that will be attended by interested parties--the Arab League, you know, 
important Arab League group will be there; a committee will be there 
from the Arab League. And it's an opportunity for there to be a 
serious--substantive discussions about the way forward and a two-state 
solution. A lot of it is going to be empower both parties, give them 
confidence to follow through on the vision.
    I also want you to know that I fully understand the two-state 
solution is a part of a comprehensive peace in the Middle East, and that 
our strategy is to get all concerned countries to the table; to get this 
comprehensive peace moving forward in a way that is tangible and real, 
so people can see it. In other words, I'm not interested in just a photo 
opportunity, and I don't think anybody else is going to be interested in 
that. I really want to see if we can advance the progress.
    Step one was for there to be a commitment by Israel and the 
Palestinians to this peace. And step two is a commitment to the roadmap. 
In other words, nobody is going to want--have a state that becomes a 
launching pad for attack. The Palestinians--the average Palestinian 
doesn't want that, and surely the Abbas Government doesn't, and Israel can't stand that.
    And so we've got--we got to work a lot with the Palestinians to help 
their security forces--and we are--and to help the President and the Prime Minister with economic aid, tangible economic aid so the average 
Palestinian can see a better life ahead, can realize there's something 
better than violence. And so I am very optimistic about it, about the 
prospects for peace.

War on Terror

    Mr. Nakouzi. Steven told me that time is over, Mr. President. Could 
you just--a few seconds, if you allow me. And since I wanted to go ask 
you that question when we, after--20 days after commemorating September 
11th, I said, when I meet President Bush, I'm going to ask him a 
question. This massacre that happened on 9/11, it is very difficult for 
any Arab who lives in the Arab world that can imagine what happened to 
innocent American people on that day.
    I would like to know what was your reaction the first time when you 
heard that 15 Saudi Muslims were among the hijackers who committed this 
crime and this terrorist act? How did that affect your relationship with 
the Kingdom--which plays a major role in the region--and particularly 
Crown Prince Abdallah--now King Abdallah--who is a personal friend of 
yours?
    The President. King Abdallah is a personal friend of mine, and I respect him. You 
know, I have seen murder before in my own country. I have seen evil 
people take innocent life. And when that's happened, I haven't condemned 
everybody else around.
    I will give you an interesting story. I was in a community 
yesterday--a gunman came and killed five young Amish girls--this is last 
year. And the gunman was killed. The Amish community, which is a 
religious community here in America, went and reached out to the 
wife and children of the gunman in compassion 
and love. And I'm not saying I was that--you know, I hope I could be 
that compassionate. It was a great act of compassion.

[[Page 1289]]

    And the reason I tell you that is, my reaction on September the 11th 
was, I vowed to find the killers--those who ordered the killing--and 
bring them to justice. On the other hand, never did it enter my heart 
and my mind to be embittered toward a group of people, innocent people, 
who had nothing to do with the murderer. In other words, I was focused 
on the individuals and their commanders, not citizens in the Middle 
East, of any country, particularly Saudi Arabia.
    In other words, my first reaction was not, look, the Saudis are bad 
people. My first reaction was, evil people came and killed, and we'll 
react to protect ourselves. And we'll react to protect ourselves in two 
ways. One is to work with concerned governments, including Saudi Arabia, 
to find those few that are willing to murder us. And those same 
murderers that came to the United States would very much like to murder 
the leaders in Saudi Arabia. And so there's a lot of common ground 
throughout the world to rout out people and to bring them to justice.
    And the long term--these people believe something. There's an 
ideology behind their views, and the ideology basically is very 
different from one based upon freedom. Their ideology is, you can't 
worship the way you see fit. And if you don't worship the way they want 
you to worship, you'll be publicly beaten, or you'll be killed, or 
you'll be in prison. They don't believe, for example, young girls ought 
to be educated. I strongly disagree with that. I think one of the great 
potentials of the Middle East is women. And I certainly know, as a 
father, that I want my little girls to be--you know, have a good education, which they did. 
And I'm confident other fathers want the same thing in the Middle East, 
even though we may not speak the same language or share the same 
religion.
    And so my reaction was--tough reaction to make sure we find those 
who ordered the killing and bring them to justice and to keep the 
pressure on them so they don't do it again--and I believe they want to 
do it again. But on the other hand, I have this sense of a possibility 
based upon something that's worked throughout the world, and that is, 
people being able to realize dreams through liberty.
    This isn't the first time that societies have had to make choices. 
This isn't the first time where people made the focused effort to become 
a free society. And it won't be the first time when a part of the world 
has gone from one that's been tense and full of unspeakable tragedy to 
one of peace.
    And that's where we're headed; we're headed to peace. And I can't 
thank you enough for the opportunity to speak on a free channel to 
people throughout the Middle East. Our country is a loving country. It's 
hard for me to believe that people can't look at America and say, ``Wow, 
what a compassionate group of people''--because we are. And yet I 
understand the images of my country have been distorted. And I 
understand people say things about me personally that simply aren't 
true. And so I appreciate the chance to come and talk to you directly 
and to talk to your viewers directly about what's in my heart and about 
the fact that my country is a country of peace.
    Mr. Nakouzi. Mr. President, on behalf of myself and Al Arabiya TV, I 
would like to thank you very much for this opportunity. You were very 
generous with us on time; I know you have a very hectic schedule.
    Thank you very much for this opportunity. And I hope to meet with 
you again when you also are in a position to achieve some of our 
democracy in our region. Thank you, sir.

Note: The interview began taping at 11:35 a.m. in the Oval Office and 
continued on the Colonnade and in the Map Room at the White House, for 
later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to President

[[Page 1290]]

Mahmud Ahmadi-nejad of Iran; Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, President 
Jalal Talabani, and Vice Presidents Adil Abd Al-Mahdi and Tariq al-
Hashimi of Iraq; Parliament Member Sa'ad al-Din al-Hariri and Prime 
Minister Fuad Siniora of Lebanon; President Bashar al-Asad of Syria; 
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel; President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime 
Minister Salam Fayyad of the Palestinian Authority; and King Abdallah 
bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia. Portions of Mr. Nakouzi's 
remarks were in Arabic, and an English translation was provided. The 
transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on October 
5. A tape was not available for verification of this interview.