[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2007, Book II)]
[November 6, 2007]
[Pages 1435-1439]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
Interview With Patrick Poivre d'Arvor
of TF1 Television of France
November 6, 2007
France-U.S. Relations
Mr. d'Arvor. Mr. President, good evening.
The relations between France and the United States for a long time
had cooled down for quite some time, for about 3 years, since the
intervention in Iraq and since the opposition of three major countries:
Russia, Germany, and France. And this quote was lent to your
administration, whereby we should forgive Russia, forget Germany, and
punish France--and France was punished for its rebelliousness. And
number two, is the punishment over?
The President. First of all, I never really felt that a disagreement
over Iraq should yield a rupture in relations. I fully understand why
people disagree with my decision, and so I never really subscribed to
that theory. So there's no punishment, really, in my--from my
perspective.
Secondly, I value the relationship a lot. And the United States and
France have had a long history. After all, much of our independence was
achieved as a result of the aid of the French. And we have been through
wars together; we've had our agreements and our disagreements. So I've
really worked hard to make sure the relationship was bigger than the
individuals.
Having said that, you've got a new President who brings an energy level that is exciting----
President Nicolas Sarkozy of France
Mr. d'Arvor. Has that changed the situation somewhat, given the fact
that Mr. Sarkozy has replaced Mr. Chirac?
The President. Of course, in the sense that every individual
matters. In other words, I've dealt with a lot of foreign leaders, and
some--and each person brings their own set of personalities and values.
And President Sarkozy is a man of deep values. He's got a lot of energy.
He's a lot of fun to be around. Plus, he's a serious man, and he wants
to--so he's like me; he wants to solve problems--``Here is a problem,
let's go solve it.''
And so I'm looking forward to visiting with him. The relationship is
good, and I intend to work to keep it that way.
Iraq
Mr. d'Arvor. With distance, do you think that the French arguments
at the time--whereby there were no weapons of mass destruction, which
was proven; there's no
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direct relationship with the September 11th attacks. So do you think
that these arguments were justified? So don't you regret it after all?
The President. No, I don't at all. Absolutely, getting rid of Saddam
Hussein was the right thing to do. Now, first of all, nobody ever said
that the September 11th attacks were ordered by Saddam. That's myth.
That was never part of my argument.
And secondly, I did go to the United Nations Security Council--and
1441 was supported by the French--which said, disclose, disarm, or face
serious consequences. You wouldn't say that if you didn't believe he had
weapons of mass destruction.
Now, in hindsight, he didn't. Do I think the world is better off
without him? Absolutely. I know Iraq is as well. And so my decision was
the right decision.
Again, I understand why people don't like the use of armed force.
That's natural. On the other hand, the liberation of 25 million people
is noble. And now the question is, will we work together to help this
young democracy survive in the face of extremists and radicals who kill
the innocent in order to achieve their political objectives?
And I can't thank President Sarkozy
enough for sending the Foreign Minister to
Baghdad, which basically said, we want to help you survive. We think
democracy is a great alternative to the ideology of mass murderers. And
that's the question we're faced with, those of us who live in the free
world: Are we willing to help others realize the blessings of freedom
for the sake of peace?
Iraq/War on Terror/Spread of Democracy
Mr. d'Arvor. But your father, during the first gulf war, had stopped
at the doors of Baghdad. He left Saddam in sight, weakened, in power. So
why didn't you do the same thing as him? Did you speak with him? Did he
tell you, son, you can do what I did not do 10 years ago? So ultimately,
don't you wonder as to that may not be what actually destabilized the
region ultimately?
The President. No. I think there is--what we're witnessing is a
great clash between radicals and extremists who murder and people who
want to live in peace. And the situation was different in 1991 than it
was in 2003. After all, the United States has been attacked, and I said
that we're going to deal with threats before they fully materialize.
It's one of the lessons of September the 11th.
Saddam Hussein was given a chance to disclose or disarm. He chose
not to. He was the one who, once again, defied the world. He's the one
who basically said, I don't care what the United Nations said and what
France and the United States and everybody else on the Security Council
said. And so I'm very comfortable with the decision I made.
But you say, does this cause there to be radicalism that causes the
murder of the--causes people to lose their life? Absolutely not. What
causes people to become radicals is when they become hopeless and
frustrated and fall prey to the whims and desires of a bunch of
ideologues who murder innocent people--whether it be in Iraq today or in
Afghanistan today or whether it be in Lebanon or whether it be in the
Palestinian Territories--all trying to stop the advent of democracy
because they can't stand the thought of free societies in their midst.
And the challenge for those of us who live in free societies, like I
said, and the challenge for President Sarkozy and George W. Bush and other leaders is, are we going
to sit back and not care whether people live in freedom, or are we going
to help them realize the blessings of liberty? Because liberty will
yield the peace we want.
Iran
Mr. d'Arvor. So to a certain extent, you did contribute to giving
greater power to Iran, because it no longer is facing its hated enemy on
the other side. So now is there
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a true threat in Iran, and are you ready now to invade Iran as you did
with Afghanistan and Iraq? So it is indeed true that Vice President--is
it true that Vice President Cheney has a plan for that?
The President. Gosh, I don't know where you're getting all these
rumors--there must be some weird things going on in Europe these days--
because I have made it abundantly clear, now is the time to deal with a
true threat to world peace, that's Iran, and to do it diplomatically and
peacefully. And that's what I'm going to spend a lot of time on with
President Sarkozy. But of course, we want to
solve these problems peacefully.
Mr. d'Arvor. But if it doesn't work, if the sanctions and the
threats do not work, what happens?
The President. Well, we are going to--as I said, all options are on
the table. But the objective is to make them work. I mean, I'm not so
sure I agree with your hypothesis that--``if they don't work.'' I'm the
kind of guy that says, let's make sure they do work. And that's what I
intend to talk to President Sarkozy about
and Angela Merkel about, and that is to keep
the international pressure and to keep the focus on the ambitions of an
Iranian regime that has publicly declared its intention to destroy
Israel, for example, and have defied the demands of the IAEA. And so
they're not trusted--to be trusted with a enrichment program. We made
that abundantly clear to them. And I believe we can solve this problem
diplomatically.
But to say that to enhance a free society on Iran's border
strengthens the Iranians is just not true. I simply don't buy into that
logic--or illogic, in this case. I think a free society on Iran's border
is going to be--make their life more difficult. I think that,
ultimately, they're going to feel pressure about the type of government
they have when their people look across the border and see a
flourishing, free society.
And so our policy is to work with friends and allies to say to the
people, here is a problem, let's work collaboratively to address it, and
now, early.
U.S. Image Abroad
Mr. d'Arvor. But in spite of all your efforts, the United States
today have a worse image today than they had 7 years ago. People find
Americans less likable pretty much everywhere in the world. Do you have
your own share of responsibility, or is this inevitable because the
United States is the most powerful country in the world?
The President. Look, first of all, I think most people respect
America, and they like Americans. They may not necessarily like the
President. And so--but I've always been the kind of person, Patrick, to
make decisions based upon what's right, as opposed to trying to be the
popular guy. I've always found the person who strives for popularity----
U.S. Foreign Policy/Freedom Agenda
Mr. d'Arvor. In the past, we used to say that the American Dream was
freedom, but today it seems to be repression, more self-focused society.
The President. Oh, no, that's absurd. That's absurd to say the
American Dream is repression. Freedom is the absolute we're helping
people achieve. That's--think about what's happening with 25 million
people in Iraq or 25 million people in Afghanistan or the fact that the
United States is freeing people from the scourge of HIV/AIDS. We're
spending $30 billion, when Congress passes my budget, to help people on
HIV/AIDS--or the fact that we've got a $1.6 billion program to help
people who are--families who are suffering as a result of a child dying
from malaria. In other words, we've got a very aggressive freedom
agenda. And if you come to the United States, you'll find that you can
practice your religion any way you see fit, that this is an open society
and a free society.
And so yes, I understand people's--the image may not be as good as
one would like, but people respect what America
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stands for. They may not like the decisions I have made, but I don't see
how you can be a leader if you worry about public opinion polls all the
time, particularly in a world in which there's a lot of problems that
require strong leadership.
President's Legacy
Mr. d'Arvor. And what legacy, what record would you like to leave in
history? You've spent 7 years in the White House. You'll be leaving in a
year. What would you like the memory, the souvenir of you to remain?
The President. Well, certainly the fact that 50 million people have
been liberated; that we've got a very strong relationship in the Far
East; that we're friends with China, Japan, and South Korea--something
that's been hard for other Presidents to do. I think we can help stand
up a Palestinian state. I'm the first President ever to have articulated
a two-party state, two states side by side in peace. Our HIV/AIDS
initiative is very strong. I mean, we're leading the world when it comes
to helping feed the hungry or take care of those who are ill. I think
our malaria initiative will go down in history as a great initiative.
And at home, some of my education initiatives and the fact that our
economy has grown, in spite of recession, corporate scandals, and war
and the attack on America. See, I'm a tax cutter. I believe when people
have more money in their pockets, they do better.
And so I'm--you know, it's an interesting thing about history.
You're really not going to know the history of the Bush administration
until long after you and I are dead. There's no such thing as accurate,
short-term history. It takes a while for people to see the results of
decisions having been made.
And so I'm very comfortable, Patrick. I feel comfortable that the
decisions I have made have been in the best interests of the country.
I've been comfortable that I've had to deal with some tough problems,
and I didn't shy away from the problems; I tackled them head on. And I
love my country, and I love what we stand for.
2008 Presidential Election
Mr. d'Arvor. And last question, who would you like to see as your
replacement in 1 year? A Republican? A Democrat?
The President. Of course a Republican. But I'm not--you're trying to
get me to take sides.
Mr. d'Arvor. You prefer Republican.
The President. Absolutely, a Republican.
Mr. d'Arvor. A woman? An African American? A veteran? Do you have a
choice? Are there any people that you like more than others?
The President. Now, see, you're trying to cleverly draw me into the
race for the Presidency. And one of the things that I have told the
American people is, I'm going to watch the Republican primaries unfold
and not take positions and then go out and help my party's nominee win.
And I think we will win the White House. I think whoever will get
nominated from our party will win, because the big issues in America are
who's going to be tough in this war on terror and who's going to protect
our homeland and will they keep taxes low. And our candidates will be
willing to take those positions in a way that appeals to the American
people.
But anyway, nice try trying to get me to endorse a candidate.
President's Vacation/France-U.S. Relations
Mr. d'Arvor. We saw a French President spend his summer vacations
this year in the United States. So when will George W. Bush spend his
vacations in France?
The President. Thank you very much. As you know, I'm a--I've got a
piece of property I love in Texas----
Mr. d'Arvor. It's large.
The President. ----very much, and when I do, I like to go down
there. But I would
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love to come back to France. It's a beautiful country. I've had some
really good experiences there, and I've found the people to be very
friendly.
And, look, I understand there's disagreements. But from my
perspective, the people of France really do respect what America has
stood for and respect our alliance. And I was greeted with great respect
when I went there. And so I'd like to come back sometimes.
And I'm looking forward to my meeting with President
Sarkozy. It's going to be a constructive
meeting.
Mr. d'Arvor. Once again, thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank
you very much for hosting us.
The President. Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you very much.
The President. You bet.
Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you.
Note: The interview was taped at 2:12 p.m. in the Map Room at the White
House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
Minister of Foreign and European Affairs Bernard Kouchner of France; and
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. Mr. d'Arvor referred to former
President Jacques Chirac of France. Portions of the Mr. d'Arvor's
remarks were in French, and no translation was provided. The transcript
was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on November 7. A
portion of this interview could not be verified because the tape was
incomplete.