    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2007, Book II)]
    [November 6, 2007]
    [Pages 1435-1439]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Patrick Poivre d'Arvor
    of TF1 Television of France
    November 6, 2007

    France-U.S. Relations

        Mr. d'Arvor. Mr. President, good evening.
        The relations between France and the United States for a long time
    had cooled down for quite some time, for about 3 years, since the
    intervention in Iraq and since the opposition of three major countries:
    Russia, Germany, and France. And this quote was lent to your
    administration, whereby we should forgive Russia, forget Germany, and
    punish France--and France was punished for its rebelliousness. And
    number two, is the punishment over?
        The President. First of all, I never really felt that a disagreement
    over Iraq should yield a rupture in relations. I fully understand why
    people disagree with my decision, and so I never really subscribed to
    that theory. So there's no punishment, really, in my--from my
    perspective.
        Secondly, I value the relationship a lot. And the United States and
    France have had a long history. After all, much of our independence was
    achieved as a result of the aid of the French. And we have been through
    wars together; we've had our agreements and our disagreements. So I've
    really worked hard to make sure the relationship was bigger than the
    individuals.
        Having said that, you've got a new President who brings an energy level that is exciting----

    President Nicolas Sarkozy of France

        Mr. d'Arvor. Has that changed the situation somewhat, given the fact
    that Mr. Sarkozy has replaced Mr. Chirac?
        The President. Of course, in the sense that every individual
    matters. In other words, I've dealt with a lot of foreign leaders, and
    some--and each person brings their own set of personalities and values.
    And President Sarkozy is a man of deep values. He's got a lot of energy.
    He's a lot of fun to be around. Plus, he's a serious man, and he wants
    to--so he's like me; he wants to solve problems--``Here is a problem,
    let's go solve it.''
        And so I'm looking forward to visiting with him. The relationship is
    good, and I intend to work to keep it that way.

    Iraq

        Mr. d'Arvor. With distance, do you think that the French arguments
    at the time--whereby there were no weapons of mass destruction, which
    was proven; there's no

    [[Page 1436]]

    direct relationship with the September 11th attacks. So do you think
    that these arguments were justified? So don't you regret it after all?
        The President. No, I don't at all. Absolutely, getting rid of Saddam
    Hussein was the right thing to do. Now, first of all, nobody ever said
    that the September 11th attacks were ordered by Saddam. That's myth.
    That was never part of my argument.
        And secondly, I did go to the United Nations Security Council--and
    1441 was supported by the French--which said, disclose, disarm, or face
    serious consequences. You wouldn't say that if you didn't believe he had
    weapons of mass destruction.
        Now, in hindsight, he didn't. Do I think the world is better off
    without him? Absolutely. I know Iraq is as well. And so my decision was
    the right decision.
        Again, I understand why people don't like the use of armed force.
    That's natural. On the other hand, the liberation of 25 million people
    is noble. And now the question is, will we work together to help this
    young democracy survive in the face of extremists and radicals who kill
    the innocent in order to achieve their political objectives?
        And I can't thank President Sarkozy
    enough for sending the Foreign Minister to
    Baghdad, which basically said, we want to help you survive. We think
    democracy is a great alternative to the ideology of mass murderers. And
    that's the question we're faced with, those of us who live in the free
    world: Are we willing to help others realize the blessings of freedom
    for the sake of peace?

    Iraq/War on Terror/Spread of Democracy

        Mr. d'Arvor. But your father, during the first gulf war, had stopped
    at the doors of Baghdad. He left Saddam in sight, weakened, in power. So
    why didn't you do the same thing as him? Did you speak with him? Did he
    tell you, son, you can do what I did not do 10 years ago? So ultimately,
    don't you wonder as to that may not be what actually destabilized the
    region ultimately?
        The President. No. I think there is--what we're witnessing is a
    great clash between radicals and extremists who murder and people who
    want to live in peace. And the situation was different in 1991 than it
    was in 2003. After all, the United States has been attacked, and I said
    that we're going to deal with threats before they fully materialize.
    It's one of the lessons of September the 11th.
        Saddam Hussein was given a chance to disclose or disarm. He chose
    not to. He was the one who, once again, defied the world. He's the one
    who basically said, I don't care what the United Nations said and what
    France and the United States and everybody else on the Security Council
    said. And so I'm very comfortable with the decision I made.
        But you say, does this cause there to be radicalism that causes the
    murder of the--causes people to lose their life? Absolutely not. What
    causes people to become radicals is when they become hopeless and
    frustrated and fall prey to the whims and desires of a bunch of
    ideologues who murder innocent people--whether it be in Iraq today or in
    Afghanistan today or whether it be in Lebanon or whether it be in the
    Palestinian Territories--all trying to stop the advent of democracy
    because they can't stand the thought of free societies in their midst.
        And the challenge for those of us who live in free societies, like I
    said, and the challenge for President Sarkozy and George W. Bush and other leaders is, are we going
    to sit back and not care whether people live in freedom, or are we going
    to help them realize the blessings of liberty? Because liberty will
    yield the peace we want.

    Iran

        Mr. d'Arvor. So to a certain extent, you did contribute to giving
    greater power to Iran, because it no longer is facing its hated enemy on
    the other side. So now is there

    [[Page 1437]]

    a true threat in Iran, and are you ready now to invade Iran as you did
    with Afghanistan and Iraq? So it is indeed true that Vice President--is
    it true that Vice President Cheney has a plan for that?
        The President. Gosh, I don't know where you're getting all these
    rumors--there must be some weird things going on in Europe these days--
    because I have made it abundantly clear, now is the time to deal with a
    true threat to world peace, that's Iran, and to do it diplomatically and
    peacefully. And that's what I'm going to spend a lot of time on with
    President Sarkozy. But of course, we want to
    solve these problems peacefully.
        Mr. d'Arvor. But if it doesn't work, if the sanctions and the
    threats do not work, what happens?
        The President. Well, we are going to--as I said, all options are on
    the table. But the objective is to make them work. I mean, I'm not so
    sure I agree with your hypothesis that--``if they don't work.'' I'm the
    kind of guy that says, let's make sure they do work. And that's what I
    intend to talk to President Sarkozy about
    and Angela Merkel about, and that is to keep
    the international pressure and to keep the focus on the ambitions of an
    Iranian regime that has publicly declared its intention to destroy
    Israel, for example, and have defied the demands of the IAEA. And so
    they're not trusted--to be trusted with a enrichment program. We made
    that abundantly clear to them. And I believe we can solve this problem
    diplomatically.
        But to say that to enhance a free society on Iran's border
    strengthens the Iranians is just not true. I simply don't buy into that
    logic--or illogic, in this case. I think a free society on Iran's border
    is going to be--make their life more difficult. I think that,
    ultimately, they're going to feel pressure about the type of government
    they have when their people look across the border and see a
    flourishing, free society.
        And so our policy is to work with friends and allies to say to the
    people, here is a problem, let's work collaboratively to address it, and
    now, early.

    U.S. Image Abroad

        Mr. d'Arvor. But in spite of all your efforts, the United States
    today have a worse image today than they had 7 years ago. People find
    Americans less likable pretty much everywhere in the world. Do you have
    your own share of responsibility, or is this inevitable because the
    United States is the most powerful country in the world?
        The President. Look, first of all, I think most people respect
    America, and they like Americans. They may not necessarily like the
    President. And so--but I've always been the kind of person, Patrick, to
    make decisions based upon what's right, as opposed to trying to be the
    popular guy. I've always found the person who strives for popularity----

    U.S. Foreign Policy/Freedom Agenda

        Mr. d'Arvor. In the past, we used to say that the American Dream was
    freedom, but today it seems to be repression, more self-focused society.
        The President. Oh, no, that's absurd. That's absurd to say the
    American Dream is repression. Freedom is the absolute we're helping
    people achieve. That's--think about what's happening with 25 million
    people in Iraq or 25 million people in Afghanistan or the fact that the
    United States is freeing people from the scourge of HIV/AIDS. We're
    spending $30 billion, when Congress passes my budget, to help people on
    HIV/AIDS--or the fact that we've got a $1.6 billion program to help
    people who are--families who are suffering as a result of a child dying
    from malaria. In other words, we've got a very aggressive freedom
    agenda. And if you come to the United States, you'll find that you can
    practice your religion any way you see fit, that this is an open society
    and a free society.
        And so yes, I understand people's--the image may not be as good as
    one would like, but people respect what America

    [[Page 1438]]

    stands for. They may not like the decisions I have made, but I don't see
    how you can be a leader if you worry about public opinion polls all the
    time, particularly in a world in which there's a lot of problems that
    require strong leadership.

    President's Legacy

        Mr. d'Arvor. And what legacy, what record would you like to leave in
    history? You've spent 7 years in the White House. You'll be leaving in a
    year. What would you like the memory, the souvenir of you to remain?
        The President. Well, certainly the fact that 50 million people have
    been liberated; that we've got a very strong relationship in the Far
    East; that we're friends with China, Japan, and South Korea--something
    that's been hard for other Presidents to do. I think we can help stand
    up a Palestinian state. I'm the first President ever to have articulated
    a two-party state, two states side by side in peace. Our HIV/AIDS
    initiative is very strong. I mean, we're leading the world when it comes
    to helping feed the hungry or take care of those who are ill. I think
    our malaria initiative will go down in history as a great initiative.
        And at home, some of my education initiatives and the fact that our
    economy has grown, in spite of recession, corporate scandals, and war
    and the attack on America. See, I'm a tax cutter. I believe when people
    have more money in their pockets, they do better.
        And so I'm--you know, it's an interesting thing about history.
    You're really not going to know the history of the Bush administration
    until long after you and I are dead. There's no such thing as accurate,
    short-term history. It takes a while for people to see the results of
    decisions having been made.
        And so I'm very comfortable, Patrick. I feel comfortable that the
    decisions I have made have been in the best interests of the country.
    I've been comfortable that I've had to deal with some tough problems,
    and I didn't shy away from the problems; I tackled them head on. And I
    love my country, and I love what we stand for.

    2008 Presidential Election

        Mr. d'Arvor. And last question, who would you like to see as your
    replacement in 1 year? A Republican? A Democrat?
        The President. Of course a Republican. But I'm not--you're trying to
    get me to take sides.
        Mr. d'Arvor. You prefer Republican.
        The President. Absolutely, a Republican.
        Mr. d'Arvor. A woman? An African American? A veteran? Do you have a
    choice? Are there any people that you like more than others?
        The President. Now, see, you're trying to cleverly draw me into the
    race for the Presidency. And one of the things that I have told the
    American people is, I'm going to watch the Republican primaries unfold
    and not take positions and then go out and help my party's nominee win.
    And I think we will win the White House. I think whoever will get
    nominated from our party will win, because the big issues in America are
    who's going to be tough in this war on terror and who's going to protect
    our homeland and will they keep taxes low. And our candidates will be
    willing to take those positions in a way that appeals to the American
    people.
        But anyway, nice try trying to get me to endorse a candidate.

    President's Vacation/France-U.S. Relations

        Mr. d'Arvor. We saw a French President spend his summer vacations
    this year in the United States. So when will George W. Bush spend his
    vacations in France?
        The President. Thank you very much. As you know, I'm a--I've got a
    piece of property I love in Texas----
        Mr. d'Arvor. It's large.
        The President. ----very much, and when I do, I like to go down
    there. But I would

    [[Page 1439]]

    love to come back to France. It's a beautiful country. I've had some
    really good experiences there, and I've found the people to be very
    friendly.
        And, look, I understand there's disagreements. But from my
    perspective, the people of France really do respect what America has
    stood for and respect our alliance. And I was greeted with great respect
    when I went there. And so I'd like to come back sometimes.
        And I'm looking forward to my meeting with President
    Sarkozy. It's going to be a constructive
    meeting.
        Mr. d'Arvor. Once again, thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank
    you very much for hosting us.
        The President. Yes, sir. Thank you very much.
        Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you very much.
        The President. You bet.
        Mr. d'Arvor. Thank you.

    Note: The interview was taped at 2:12 p.m. in the Map Room at the White
    House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Minister of Foreign and European Affairs Bernard Kouchner of France; and
    Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany. Mr. d'Arvor referred to former
    President Jacques Chirac of France. Portions of the Mr. d'Arvor's
    remarks were in French, and no translation was provided. The transcript
    was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on November 7. A
    portion of this interview could not be verified because the tape was
    incomplete.