[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2006, Book I)]
[March 20, 2006]
[Pages 504-524]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Remarks to the City Club of Cleveland and a Question-and-Answer Session 
in Cleveland, Ohio
March 20, 2006

    The President. Thank you all. Please be seated. Sanjiv, thanks for the introduction. He called me on the 
phone and said, ``Listen, we believe in free speech, so you're going to 
come and give us a speech for free.'' [Laughter] Thanks for the 
invitation; thanks for the warm welcome. It's good to be here at the 
City Club of Cleveland.
    For almost a century, you have provided an important forum for 
debate and discussion on the issues of the day. And I have come to 
discuss a vital issue of the day, which is the safety and security of 
every American and our need to achieve victory in the war on terror.
    I want to thank the mayor for joining us. Mr. Mayor, appreciate you being here. It must make you feel pretty 
good to get the ``Most Livable City'' award. [Laughter] I want to thank 
all the members of the City Club for graciously inviting me to come. I 
want to thank the students who are here. Thanks for your interest in 
your government. I look forward to giving you a speech and then 
answering questions, if you have any.
    The central front on the war on terror is Iraq, and in the past few 
weeks, we've seen horrific images coming out of that country. We've seen 
a great house of worship, the Golden Mosque of Samarra, in ruins after a 
brutal terrorist attack. We have seen reprisal attacks by armed militia 
on Sunni mosques. We have seen car bombs take the lives of shoppers in a 
crowded market in Sadr City. We've seen the bodies of scores of Iraqi 
men brutally executed or beaten to death.
    The enemies of a free Iraq attacked the Golden Mosque for a reason: 
They know they lack the military strength to challenge Iraqi and 
coalition forces in a direct battle, so they're trying to provoke a 
civil war. By attacking one of Shi'a Islam's holiest sites, they hoped 
to incite violence that would drive Iraqis apart and stop their progress 
on the path to a free society.
    The timing of the attack in Samarra is no accident. It comes at a 
moment when Iraq's elected leaders are working to form a unity 
government. Last December, 4 short months ago, more than 11 million 
people expressed their opinion. They said loud and clear at the ballot 
box that they desire a future of freedom and unity. And now it is time 
for the leaders to put aside their differences; reach out across 
political, religious, and sectarian lines; and form a unity government 
that will earn the trust and the confidence of all Iraqis. My 
administration, led by Ambassador Zal Khalilzad, is helping and will continue to help the Iraqis 
achieve this goal.
    The situation on the ground remains tense. And in the face of 
continued reports about killings and reprisals, I understand how some 
Americans have had their confidence shaken. Others look at the violence 
they see each night on their television screens and they wonder how I 
can remain so optimistic about the prospects of success in Iraq. They 
wonder what I see that they don't. So today I'd like to share a concrete 
example of progress in Iraq that most Americans do not see every day in 
their newspapers and on their television screens. I'm going to tell you 
the story of a northern Iraqi city called Tall `Afar, which was once a 
key base of operations for Al Qaida and is today a free city that gives 
reason for hope for a free Iraq.
    Tall `Afar is a city of more than 200,000 residents, roughly the 
population of Akron, Ohio. In many ways, Tall `Afar is a microcosm of 
Iraq. It has dozens of tribes of different ethnicity and religion. Most 
of the city residents are Sunnis of Turkmen origin. Tall `Afar sits just 
35 miles from the Syrian

[[Page 505]]

border. It was a strategic location for Al Qaida and their leader, 
Zarqawi.
    Now, it's important to remember what Al Qaida has told us, their 
stated objectives. Their goal is to drive us out of Iraq so they can 
take the country over. Their goal is to overthrow moderate Muslim 
governments throughout the region. Their goal is to use Iraq as a base 
from which to launch attacks against America. To achieve this goal, 
they're recruiting terrorists from the Middle East to come into Iraq to 
infiltrate its cities and to sow violence and destruction so that no 
legitimate government can exercise control. And Tall `Afar was a key way 
station for their operations in Iraq.
    After we removed Saddam Hussein in April 
2003, the terrorists began moving into the city. They sought to divide 
Tall `Afar's many ethnic and religious groups and forged an alliance of 
convenience with those who benefited from Saddam's regime and others 
with their own grievances. They skillfully used propaganda to foment 
hostility toward the coalition and the new Iraqi Government. They 
exploited a weak economy to recruit young men to their cause. And by 
September 2004, the terrorists and insurgents had basically seized 
control of Tall `Afar.
    We recognized the situation was unacceptable, so we launched a 
military operation against them. After 3 days of heavy fighting, the 
terrorists and the insurgents fled the city. Our strategy at the time 
was to stay after the terrorists and keep them on the run. So coalition 
forces kept moving, kept pursuing the enemy and routing out the 
terrorists in other parts of Iraq.
    Unfortunately, in 2004, the local security forces there in Tall 
`Afar weren't able to maintain order, and so the terrorists and the 
insurgents eventually moved back into the town. Because the terrorists 
threatened to murder the families of Tall `Afar's police, its members 
rarely ventured out from the headquarters in an old Ottoman fortress. 
The terrorists also took over local mosques, forcing local imams out and 
insisting that the terrorist message of hatred and intolerance and 
violence be spread from the mosques. The same happened in Tall `Afar's 
schools, where the terrorists eliminated real education and instead 
indoctrinated young men in their hateful ideology. By November of 2004, 
2 months after our operation to clear the city, the terrorists had 
returned to continue their brutal campaign of intimidation.
    The return of Al Qaida meant the innocent civilians in Tall `Afar 
were in a difficult position. Just put yourself in the shoes of the 
citizens of Tall `Afar as all this was happening. On the one side, you 
hear the coalition and Iraqi forces saying they're coming to protect 
you, but they'd already come in once and they had not stopped the 
terrorists from coming back. You worry that when the coalition goes 
after the terrorists, you or your family may be caught in the crossfire 
and your city might be destroyed. You don't trust the police. You badly 
want to believe the coalition forces really can help you out, but three 
decades of Saddam's brutal rule have taught 
you a lesson: Don't stick your neck out for anybody.
    On the other side, you see the terrorists and the insurgents. You 
know they mean business. They control the only hospital in town. You see 
that the mayor and other political figures are collaborating with the 
terrorists. You see how the people who worked as interpreters for the 
coalition forces are beheaded. You see a popular city councilman gunned 
down in front of his horrified wife and children. You see a respected 
Sheikh and an Imam kidnaped and murdered. You see the terrorists 
deliberately firing mortars into playgrounds and soccer fields filled 
with children. You see communities becoming armed enclaves. If you are 
in a part of Tall `Afar that was not considered friendly, you see that 
the terrorists cut off your basic services like electricity and water. 
You and your family feel besieged, and you see no way out.

[[Page 506]]

    The savagery of the terrorists and insurgents who controlled Tall 
`Afar is really hard for Americans to imagine. They enforced their rule 
through fear and intimidation--and women and children were not spared. 
In one grim incident, the terrorists kidnaped a young boy from the 
hospital and killed him, and then they boobytrapped his body and placed 
him along a road where his family would see him. And when the boy's 
father came to retrieve his son's body, he was blown up. These weren't 
random acts of violence; these were deliberate and highly organized 
attempts to maintain control through intimidation. In Tall `Afar, the 
terrorists had schools for kidnaping and beheading and laying IEDs. And 
they sent a clear message to the citizens of the city: Anyone who dares 
oppose their reign of terror will be murdered.
    As they enforced their rule by targeting civilians, they also preyed 
upon adolescents craving affirmation. Our troops found one Iraqi 
teenager who was taken from his family by the terrorists. The terrorists 
routinely abused him and violated his dignity. The terrorists offered 
him a chance to prove his manhood by holding the legs of captives as 
they were beheaded. When our forces interviewed this boy, he told them 
that his greatest aspiration was to be promoted to the killer who would 
behead the bound captives. Al Qaida's idea of manhood may be fanatical 
and perverse, but it served two clear purposes: It helped provide 
recruits willing to commit any atrocity, and it enforced the rule of 
fear.
    The result of this barbarity was a city where normal life had 
virtually ceased. Colonel H.R. McMaster of the 
3d Armored Cavalry Regiment described it this way: ``When you come into 
a place in the grip of Al Qaida, you see a ghost town. There are no 
children playing in the streets. Shops are closed and boarded. All 
construction is stopped. People stay inside, prisoners in their own 
homes.'' This is the brutal reality that Al Qaida wishes to impose on 
all the people of Iraq.
    The ability of Al Qaida and its associates to retake Tall `Afar was 
an example of something we saw elsewhere in Iraq. We recognized the 
problem, and we changed our strategy. Instead of coming in and removing 
the terrorists and then moving on, the Iraqi Government and the 
coalition adopted a new approach called clear, hold, and build. This new 
approach was made possible because of the significant gains made in 
training large numbers of highly capable Iraqi security forces. Under 
this new approach, Iraq and coalition--Iraqi and coalition forces would 
clear a city of the terrorists, leave well-trained Iraqi units behind to 
hold the city, and work with local leaders to build the economic and 
political infrastructure Iraqis need to live in freedom.
    One of the first tests of this new approach was Tall `Afar. In May 
2005, Colonel McMaster's unit was given 
responsibility for the western part of Nineveh Province where Tall `Afar 
is located, and 2 months later, Iraq's national Government announced 
that a major offensive to clear the city of the terrorists and 
insurgents would soon be launched. Iraqi and coalition forces first met 
with tribal leaders and local residents to listen to their grievances. 
One of the biggest complaints was the police force, which rarely 
ventured out of its headquarters. When it did venture, it was mostly to 
carry out sectarian reprisals. And so the national Government sent out 
new leaders to head the force. The new leaders set about getting rid of 
the bad elements and building a professional police force that all sides 
could have confidence in. We recognized it was important to listen to 
the representatives of Tall `Afar's many ethnic and religious groups. 
It's an important part of helping to remove one of the leading sources 
of mistrust.
    Next, Iraqi and Army coalition forces spent weeks preparing for what 
they knew would be a tough military offensive. They built an 8-foot 
high, 12-mile long dirt wall that ringed the city. This wall was 
designed

[[Page 507]]

to cut off any escape for terrorists trying to evade security 
checkpoints. Iraqi and coalition forces also built temporary housing 
outside the city so that Tall `Afar's people would have places to go 
when the fighting started. Before the assault on the city, Iraqi and 
coalition forces initiated a series of operations in surrounding towns 
to eliminate safe havens and make it harder for fleeing terrorists to 
hide. These steps took time, but as life returned to the outlying towns, 
these operations helped persuade the population of Tall `Afar that Iraqi 
and coalition forces were on their side against a common enemy, the 
extremists who had taken control of their city and their lives.
    Only after all these steps did Iraqi and coalition authorities 
launch Operation Restoring Rights to clear the city of the terrorists. 
Iraqi forces took the lead. The primary force was 10 Iraqi battalions, 
backed by 3 coalition battalions. Many Iraqi units conducted their own 
antiterrorist operations and controlled their own battle space, hunting 
for the enemy fighters and securing neighborhoods block by block. 
Throughout the operation, Iraqi and coalition forces were careful to 
hold their fire to let civilians pass safely out of the city. By 
focusing on securing the safety of Tall `Afar's population, the Iraqi 
and coalition forces begin to win the trust of the city's residents, 
which is critical to defeating the terrorists who were hiding among 
them.
    After about 2 weeks of intense activity, coalition and Iraqi forces 
had killed about 150 terrorists and captured 850 more. The operation 
uncovered weapons caches loaded with small arms ammunition and ski 
masks, RPG rockets, grenade and machine gun ammunition, and fuses and 
batteries for making IEDs. In one cache, we found an ax inscribed with 
the names of the victims the terrorists had beheaded. And the operation 
accomplished all this while protecting innocent civilians and inflicting 
minimal damage on the city.
    After the main combat operations were over, Iraqi forces moved in to 
hold the city. Iraqis' Government deployed more than 1,000 Iraqi Army 
soldiers and emergency police to keep order, and they were supported by 
a newly restored police force that would eventually grow to about 1,700 
officers. As part of the new strategy, we embedded coalition forces with 
the Iraqi police and with the army units patrolling Tall `Afar to work 
with their Iraqi counterparts and to help them become more capable and 
more professional. In the weeks and months that followed, the Iraqi 
police built stations throughout Tall `Afar, and city residents began 
stepping forward to offer testimony against captured terrorists and 
inform soldiers about where the remaining terrorists were hiding.
    Inside the old Ottoman fortress, a joint coordination center manned 
by Iraqi Army and Iraqi police and coalition forces answers the many 
phone calls that now come into a new tip line. As a result of the tips, 
when someone tries to plant an IED in Tall `Afar, it's often reported 
and disabled before it can do any harm. The Iraqi forces patrolling the 
cities are effective because they know the people, they know the 
language, and they know the culture. And by turning control of these 
cities over to capable Iraqi troops and police, we give Iraqis 
confidence that they can determine their own destiny, and that frees up 
coalition forces to hunt the high-value targets like Zarqawi.
    The recent elections show us how Iraqis respond when they know 
they're safe. Tall `Afar is the largest city in western Nineveh 
Province. In the elections held in January 2005, of about 190,000 
registered voters, only 32,000 people went to the polls. Only Fallujah 
had a lower participation rate. By the time of the October referendum on 
the Constitution and the December elections, Iraqi and coalition forces 
had secured Tall `Afar and surrounding areas. The number of registered 
voters rose to about 204,000, and more than 175,000 turned out to vote 
in each election, more than 85 percent of the eligible voters in western

[[Page 508]]

Nineveh Province. These citizens turned out because they were determined 
to have a say in their nation's future, and they cast their ballots at 
polling stations that were guarded and secured by fellow Iraqis.
    One young teacher described the change this way: ``What you see here 
is hope--the hope that Iraq will become safer and fairer. I feel very 
confident when I see so many people voting.''
    The confidence that has been restored to the people of Tall `Afar is 
crucial to their efforts to rebuild their city. Immediately following 
the military operations, we helped the Iraqis set up humanitarian relief 
for the civilian population. We also set up a fund to reimburse innocent 
Iraqi families for damage done to their homes and businesses in the 
fight against the terrorists. The Iraqi Government pledged $50 million 
to help reconstruct Tall `Afar by paving roads and rebuilding hospitals 
and schools and by improving infrastructure from the electric grid to 
sewer and water systems. With their city now more secure, the people of 
Tall `Afar are beginning to rebuild a better future for themselves and 
their children.
    See, if you're a resident of Tall `Afar today, this is what you're 
going to see: You see that the terrorist who once exercised brutal 
control over every aspect of your city has been killed or captured or 
driven out or put on the run. You see your children going to school and 
playing safely in the streets. You see the electricity and water service 
restored throughout the city. You see a police force that better 
reflects the ethnic and religious diversity of the communities they 
patrol. You see markets opening, and you hear the sound of construction 
equipment as buildings go up and homes are remade. In short, you see a 
city that is coming back to life.
    The success of Tall `Afar also shows how the three elements of our 
strategy in Iraq--political, security, and economic--depend on and 
reinforce one another. By working with local leaders to address 
community grievances, Iraqi and coalition forces helped build the 
political support needed to make the military operation a success. The 
military success against the terrorists helped give the citizens of Tall 
`Afar security, and this allowed them to vote in the elections and begin 
to rebuild their city. And the economic rebuilding that is beginning to 
take place is giving Tall `Afar residents a real stake in the success of 
a free Iraq. And as all this happens, the terrorists, those who offer 
nothing but destruction and death, are becoming marginalized.
    The strategy that worked so well in Tall `Afar did not emerge 
overnight; it came only after much trial and error. It took time to 
understand and adjust to the brutality of the enemy in Iraq. Yet the 
strategy is working. And we know it's working because the people of Tall 
`Afar are showing their gratitude for the good work that Americans have 
given on their behalf. A recent television report followed a guy named 
Captain Jesse Sellars on patrol and described 
him as a ``pied piper,'' with crowds of Iraqi children happily chanting 
his name as he greets locals with the words ``Salaam alaikum,'' which 
means ``Peace be with you.''
    When the newswoman asks the local merchant what would have happened 
a few months earlier if he'd been seen talking with an American, his 
answer was clear: ``They'd have cut off my head. They would have 
beheaded me.'' Like thousands of others in Tall `Afar, this man knows 
the true meaning of liberation.
    Recently, Senator Joe Biden said 
that America cannot want peace for Iraqis more than they want it for 
themselves. I agree with that. And the story of Tall `Afar shows that 
when Iraqis can count on a basic level of safety and security, they can 
live together peacefully. We saw this in Tall `Afar after the bombing of 
the Golden Mosque in Samarra. Unlike other parts of Iraq, in Tall `Afar, 
the reaction was subdued, with few reports of sectarian violence. 
Actually, on the Friday after the attack, more than

[[Page 509]]

1,000 demonstrators gathered in Tall `Afar to protest the attack 
peacefully.
    The terrorists have not given up in Tall `Afar, and they may yet 
succeed in exploding bombs or provoking acts of sectarian violence. The 
people of the city still have many challenges to overcome, including 
old-age resentments that still create suspicion, an economy that needs 
to create jobs and opportunity for its young, and determined enemies who 
will continue trying to foment a civil war to move back in. But the 
people of Tall `Afar have shown why spreading liberty and democracy is 
at the heart of our strategy to defeat the terrorists. The people of 
Tall `Afar have shown that Iraqis do want peace and freedom, and no one 
should underestimate them.
    I wish I could tell you that the progress made in Tall `Afar is the 
same in every single part of Iraq. It's not. Though most of the country 
has remained relatively peaceful, in some parts of Iraq, the enemy is 
carrying out savage acts of violence, particularly in Baghdad and the 
surrounding areas of Baghdad. But the progress made in bringing more 
Iraqi security forces on line is helping to bring peace and stability to 
Iraqi cities. The example of Tall `Afar gives me confidence in our 
strategy, because in this city, we see the outlines of the Iraq that we 
and the Iraqi people have been fighting for: a free and secure people 
who are getting back on their feet, who are participating in government 
and civic life, and who have become allies in the fight against the 
terrorists.
    I believe that as Iraqis continue to see the benefits of liberty, 
they will gain confidence in their future, and they will work to ensure 
that common purpose trumps narrow sectarianism. And by standing with 
them in their hour of need, we're going to help the Iraqis build a 
strong democracy that will be an inspiration throughout the Middle East, 
a democracy that will be a partner in the global war against the 
terrorists.
    The kind of progress that we and the Iraqi people are making in 
places like Tall `Afar is not easy to capture in a short clip on the 
evening news. Footage of children playing or shops opening and people 
resuming their normal lives will never be as dramatic as the footage of 
an IED explosion or the destruction of a mosque or soldiers and 
civilians being killed or injured. The enemy understands this, and it 
explains their continued acts of violence in Iraq. Yet the progress we 
and the Iraqi people are making is also real. And those in a position to 
know best are the Iraqis themselves.
    One of the most eloquent is the mayor of Tall `Afar, a courageous 
Iraqi man named Najim. Mayor 
Najim arrived in the city in the midst of the Al Qaida occupation, and 
he knows exactly what our troops have helped accomplish. He calls our 
men and women in uniform ``lionhearts.'' And in a letter to the troopers 
of the 3d Armored Cavalry Regiment, he spoke of a friendship sealed in 
blood and sacrifice, as Mayor Najim had this to say to the families of 
our fallen: ``To the families of those who have given their holy blood 
for our land, we all bow to you in reverence and to the souls of your 
loved ones. Their sacrifice was not in vain. They are not dead but 
alive, and their souls are hovering around us every second of every 
minute. They will not be forgotten for giving their precious lives. They 
have sacrificed that which is most valuable. We see them in the smile of 
every child and in every flower growing in this land. Let America, their 
families, and the world be proud of their sacrifice for humanity and 
life.'' America is proud of that sacrifice, and we're proud to have 
allies like Mayor Najim on our side in the fight for freedom.
    Yesterday we marked the third anniversary of the start of Operation 
Iraqi Freedom. At the time, there is much to--this time, there's much 
discussion in our country about the removal of Saddam Hussein from power and our remaining mission in

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Iraq. The decision to remove Saddam Hussein was a difficult decision. 
The decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision.
    Before we acted, his regime was defying U.N. resolutions calling for 
it to disarm; it was violating cease-fire agreements, was firing on 
British and American pilots which were enforcing no-fly zones. Saddam 
Hussein was a leader who brutalized his 
people, had pursued and used weapons of mass destruction, and sponsored 
terrorism. Today, Saddam Hussein is no longer oppressing his people or 
threatening the world. He's being tried for his crimes by the free 
citizens of a free Iraq, and America and our allies are safer for it.
    The last 3 years have tested our resolve. The fighting has been 
tough. The enemy we face has proved to be brutal and relentless. We're 
adapting our approach to reflect the hard realities on the ground. And 
the sacrifice being made by our young men and women who wear our uniform 
has been heartening and inspiring.
    The terrorists who are setting off bombs in mosques and markets in 
Iraq share the same hateful ideology as the terrorists who attacked us 
on September the 11th, 2001, those who blew up the commuters in London 
and Madrid, and those who murdered tourists in Bali or workers in Riyadh 
or guests at a wedding in Amman, Jordan. In the war on terror, we face a 
global enemy, and if we were not fighting this enemy in Iraq, they would 
not be idle. They would be plotting and trying to kill Americans across 
the world and within our own borders. Against this enemy, there can be 
no compromise. So we will fight them in Iraq, we'll fight them across 
the world, and we will stay in the fight until the fight is won.
    In the long run, the best way to defeat this enemy and to ensure the 
security of our own citizens is to spread the hope of freedom across the 
broader Middle East. We've seen freedom conquer evil and secure the 
peace before. In World War II, free nations came together to fight the 
ideology of fascism, and freedom prevailed. And today, Germany and Japan 
are democracies, and they are allies in securing the peace. In the cold 
war, freedom defeated the ideology of communism and led to a democratic 
movement that freed the nations of Central and Eastern Europe from 
Soviet domination. And today, these nations are strong allies in the war 
on terror.
    In the Middle East, freedom is once again contending with an 
ideology that seeks to sow anger and hatred and despair. And like 
fascism and communism before, the hateful ideologies that use terror 
will be defeated. Freedom will prevail in Iraq; freedom will prevail in 
the Middle East. And as the hope of freedom spreads to nations that have 
not known it, these countries will become allies in the cause of peace.
    The security of our country is directly linked to the liberty of the 
Iraqi people, and we will settle for nothing less than victory. Victory 
will come when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten 
Iraq's democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can provide for the 
safety of their citizens on their own, and when Iraq is not a safe haven 
for terrorists to plot new attacks against our Nation. There will be 
more days of sacrifice and tough fighting before the victory is 
achieved. Yet by helping the Iraqis defeat the terrorists in their land, 
we bring greater security to our own.
    As we make progress toward victory, Iraqis will continue to take 
more responsibility for their own security and fewer U.S. forces will be 
needed to complete the mission. But it's important for the Iraqis to 
hear this: The United States will not abandon Iraq. We will not leave 
that country to the terrorists who attacked America and want to attack 
us again. We will leave Iraq, but when we do, it will be from a position 
of strength, not weakness. Americans have never retreated in the face of 
thugs and assassins, and we will not begin now.
    Thanks for listening. And I'll be glad to answer some questions, if 
you have any.

[[Page 511]]

    Yes, ma'am.

War on Terror

    Q. Thank you for coming to Cleveland, Mr. President, and to the City 
Club. My question is that author and former Nixon administration 
official Kevin Phillips, in his latest book, ``American Theocracy,'' 
discusses what has been called radical Christianity and its growing 
involvement into government and politics. He makes the point that 
members of your administration have reached out to prophetic Christians 
who see the war in Iraq and the rise of terrorism as signs of the 
apocalypse. Do you believe this, that the war in Iraq and the rise of 
terrorism are signs of the apocalypse? And if not, why not?
    The President. The answer is--I haven't really thought of it that 
way. [Laughter] Here's how I think of it. First I've heard of that, by 
the way. I guess I'm more of a practical fellow. I vowed after September 
the 11th that I would do everything I could to protect the American 
people. And my attitude, of course, was affected by the attacks. I knew 
we were at a war. I knew that the enemy, obviously, had to be 
sophisticated and lethal to fly hijacked airplanes into facilities that 
would be killing thousands of people, innocent people doing nothing, 
just sitting there going to work.
    I also knew this about this war on terror, that the farther we got 
away from September the 11th, the more likely it is people would seek 
comfort and not think about this global war on terror as a global war on 
terror. And that's good, by the way. It's hard to take risk if you're a 
small-business owner, for example, if you're worried that the next 
attack is going to come tomorrow. I understand that. But I also 
understand my most important job, the most important job of any 
President today--and I predict down the road--is to protect America.
    And so I told the American people that we would find the terrorists 
and bring them to justice, and that we needed to defeat them overseas so 
we didn't have to face them here at home. I also understood that the war 
on terror requires some clear doctrine. And one of the doctrines that I 
laid out was, ``If you harbor a terrorist, you're equally as guilty as 
the terrorist.'' And the first time that doctrine was really challenged 
was in Afghanistan. I guess the Taliban didn't believe us--or me. And so 
we acted. Twenty-five million people are now free, and Afghanistan is no 
longer a safe haven for the terrorists.
    And the other doctrine that's really important, and it's a change of 
attitude--it's going to require a change of attitude for a while--is 
that when you see a threat, you got to deal with it before it hurts you. 
Foreign policy used to be dictated by the fact we had two oceans 
protecting us. If we saw a threat, you could deal with it if you needed 
to, you think--or not. But we'd be safe.
    My most important job is to protect you, is to protect the American 
people. Therefore, when we see threats, given the lesson of September 
the 11th, we got to deal with them. That does not mean militarily, 
necessarily. Obviously, the first option for a President has got to be 
the full use of diplomacy. That's what you're watching in Iran right 
now. I see a threat in Iran. I see it there--I'm kind of getting off 
subject here, not because I don't want to answer your question, but kind 
of--I guess that's what happens in Washington; we get a little long-
winded. [Laughter]
    But now that I'm on Iran, the threat to Iran, of course--
[laughter]--the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective 
to destroy our strong ally, Israel. That's a threat, a serious threat. 
It's a threat to world peace; it's a threat, in essence, to a strong 
alliance. I made it clear, and I'll be making it clear again, that we 
will use military might to protect our ally, Israel, and--[applause].
    At any rate, our objective is to solve this issue diplomatically. 
And so our message must be a united message, a message from

[[Page 512]]

not only the United States but also Great Britain and France and Germany 
as well as Russia, hopefully, and China, in order to say, loud and 
clear, to the Iranians, ``This is unacceptable behavior. Your desire to 
have a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.''
    And so to answer your question, I take a practical view of doing the 
job you want me to do--which is, how do we defeat an enemy that still 
wants to hurt us, and how do we deal with threats before they fully 
materialize; what do we do to protect us from harm? That's my job. And 
that job came home on September the 11th, for me--loud and clear. And I 
think about my job of protecting you every day. Every single day of the 
Presidency, I'm concerned about the safety of the American people.
    Yes, sir.

Intelligence/War on Terror

    Q. Mr. President, at the beginning of your talk today, you mentioned 
that you understand why Americans have had their confidence shaken by 
the events in Iraq. And I'd like to ask you about events that occurred 3 
years ago that might also explain why confidence has been shaken. Before 
we went to war in Iraq, we said there were three main reasons for going 
to war in Iraq: weapons of mass destruction, the claim that Iraq was 
sponsoring terrorists who had attacked us on 9/11, and that Iraq had 
purchased nuclear materials from Niger. All three of those turned out to 
be false. My question is, how do we restore confidence that Americans 
may have in their leaders and to be sure that the information they are 
getting now is correct?
    The President. That's a great question. First, just--if I might 
correct a misperception, I don't think we ever said--at least I know I 
didn't say that there was a direct connection between September the 11th 
and Saddam Hussein. We did say that he was a 
state sponsor of terror--by the way, not declared a state sponsor of 
terror by me but declared by other administrations. We also did say that 
Zarqawi, the man who is now wreaking 
havoc and killing innocent life, was in Iraq. And so the ``state sponsor 
of terror'' was a declaration by a previous administration. But I don't 
want to be argumentative, but I was very careful never to say that 
Saddam Hussein ordered the attacks on America.
    Like you, I asked that very same question: Where did we go wrong on 
intelligence? The truth of the matter is, the whole world thought that 
Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass 
destruction. It wasn't just my administration; it was the previous 
administration. It wasn't just the previous administration. You might 
remember, sir, there was a Security Council vote of 15 to nothing that 
said to Saddam Hussein, ``Disclose, disarm, or face serious 
consequences.'' The basic premise was, ``You've got weapons.'' That's 
what we thought.
    When he didn't disclose and when he 
didn't disarm and when he deceived inspectors, it sent a very 
disconcerting message to me, whose job it is to protect the American 
people and to take threats before they fully materialize. My view is, he 
was given the choice of whether or not he would face reprisal. It was 
his decision to make. And so he chose to not disclose, not disarm, as 
far as everybody was concerned.
    Your question, however, the part that's really important, is, how do 
we regain credibility when it comes to intelligence? Obviously, the 
Iranian issue is a classic case, where we've got to make sure that when 
we speak, there's credibility. And so, in other words, when the United 
States rallies a coalition, or any other country that had felt that 
Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass 
destruction is trying to rally a coalition in dealing with one of these 
nontransparent societies, what do we need to do to regain the trust of 
not only the American people but the world community?
    And so what I did was I called together the Silberman-Robb 
Commission--Laurence Silberman and 
former Senator Chuck Robb--to take a full 
look at what went

[[Page 513]]

right and what went wrong on the intelligence, and how do we structure 
an intelligence network that makes sure there's full debate among the 
analysts? How do we make sure that there's a full compilation of data 
points that can help decisionmakers like myself feel comfortable in the 
decision we make?
    The war on terror requires the collection and analysis of good 
intelligence. This is a different kind of war. We're dealing with an 
enemy which hides in caves and plots and plans, an enemy which doesn't 
move in flotillas or battalions. And so therefore, the intelligence 
gathering is not only important to make a diplomatic case; it's really 
important to be able to find an enemy before they hurt us.
    And so there was a reform process they went through, a full analysis 
of what--of how the operations worked, and out of that came the NDI, 
John Negroponte and Mike Hayden. And their job is to better collate and make sure 
that the intelligence gathering is seamless across a variety of 
gatherers and people that analyze. But the credibility of our country is 
essential--agree with you.
    Yes, sure.

Spread of Democracy/U.S. Armed Forces

    Q. Thank you, Mr. President. Welcome to Cleveland. It's an honor to 
have you here. I represent the Cleveland Hungarian Revolution 50th 
anniversary--[inaudible].
    The President. That's good. I was there, by the way.
    Q. Thank you all. [Laughter]
    The President. At least for the celebration in Capitol with Tom 
Lantos. But go ahead.
    Q. Mr. President, in the interest of free speech, if you'll indulge 
me, I have to give you a little context of my question. On this third 
anniversary of your--I consider--courageous initiative to bring freedom 
and basic human dignity to the Iraqi people, the image of the statue of 
the tyrant Saddam falling in Baghdad was very reminiscent of another 
statue, another tyrant, Josef Stalin, who fell in Budapest 50 years ago 
at the hands of many young Hungarian freedom fighters who were seeking 
to overthrow the tyranny of Soviet communism. Mr. President, just like 
our brave fighting men and women today and many Iraqi people, those 
young Hungarian patriots paid a very heavy price for a few days of 
freedom. But they lit the torch that eventually set the captive nations 
on the path to achieving liberty. And so, Mr. President, our Cleveland 
Hungarian community is planning a major event in Cleveland in October--
[laughter].
    The President. The guy seized the moment, you know. He's a----
    Q. Right.
    The President. I'm not sure what I'm doing in October. Put me down 
as a maybe. [Laughter] Sorry to interrupt.
    Q. Just like you came for the Children's Games in 2004, we hope to 
have you here for that as well. Mr. President, just want to let you 
know, to win the war on terror, we feel that what was started in 1776 
and continued in 1956 must be remembered in 2006.
    The President. Thank you. How much more you got?
    Q. I'm at the question now. Thanks for your indulgence.
    The President. Okay, good. [Laughter]
    Q. My basic question is, how can we help you, from the grassroots 
level, how can we help you promote the cause of freedom and liberty for 
all peoples throughout the world?
    The President. I appreciate that. My main job is to make sure I make 
the case as plainly as I can why it's worth it. And I fully understand--
I understand people being disheartened when they turn on their TV screen 
and see the loss of innocent life. We're compassionate people. Nobody 
likes beheadings and it--nobody--when innocent children get car bombed. 
So it's my job, sir, to make it clear about the connection between Iraq 
and the war on terror.

[[Page 514]]

It's my job to remind people that progress is being made, in spite of 
the violence they see. It's my job to make it clear to the people the 
stakes.
    I've spent time talking about what happens if we were to lose our 
nerve and Iraq would fall to Al Qaida. And the stakes are high. Look, I 
understand some don't view that we're in a war against the terrorists. I 
know that. And therefore, there's a sense that this--9/11 might have 
been an isolated incident. I just don't agree. And here's what I--here's 
the basis from which I make decisions. You heard one--is that 9/11 
affected the way I think. I know these are like totalitarian fascists. 
They have an ideology; they have a desire to spread that ideology; and 
they're willing to use tactics to achieve their strategy.
    And one of the tactics--I said early on in the speech the stated 
objectives of Al Qaida. This isn't my imagination of their strategy; 
this is what they have told us. And I presume you want the Commander in 
Chief to take the words of the enemy seriously. And they have told us 
they believe that we're soft and that with time, we'll leave, and 
they'll fill the vacuum. And they want to plan and plot and hurt 
Americans. That's what they have said. And I think it's really important 
we take their words very seriously.
    And so I will continue making the case, sir, but the best way you 
can help is to support our troops. You find a family who's got a child 
in the United States military; tell them you appreciate them. Ask them 
if you can help them. You see somebody wearing a uniform, you walk up 
and say, ``Thanks for serving the country.''
    Ours is a remarkable country where hundreds--[applause]--where we've 
got thousands of people signing up, volunteering for the United States 
military, many of them after September the 11th, knowing full well what 
they were signing up for. And what's amazing about our military is that 
retention rates are high; people are still signing up. They want to 
defend the country. And for that, I am grateful.
    But my job, sir, is to lay out the strategy and to connect the 
notion of liberty with peace. And that's hard for some. Sometimes 
there's a little bit of a--kind of a point of view that says, ``Well, 
maybe certain people can't be free; maybe certain people can't self-
govern.'' I strongly believe that liberty is universal. I believe in the 
natural rights of men and women. That was part of our founding. And if 
you believe in that, if you believe in the universality of freedom, then 
I believe those of us who are free have an obligation to help others 
become free.
    Yes, ma'am. I'm tied up in October, but you know--[laughter].

Iraq/Spread of Democracy

    Q. I'm a Marine mom.
    The President. Okay, good. Thank you. Tell your--[applause].
    Q. My son signed up after 9/11, and I didn't raise a terrorist. But 
let's face it; there's a continuum and a lack of clarity about who's 
violent and who's a terrorist. And we really do want to use the word 
``enemy'' in a meaningful way. I think your speech has been very brave 
and very important and very clarifying. And in the interest of 
clarifying the purpose of our country to fight preventive war, which we 
know does involve violence, it's very important for us to understand 
what you're saying about your model community in Iraq. And my question 
is that you are killing the bad guys, and that's very important--that's 
the entire story of the battle. And we want to know who the bad guys 
are. Do you feel that Iraq is like a honeycomb, and that we can draw the 
Al Qaida there so we can stand and fight them there? I'm really asking 
for clarification.
    The President. Sure. I think in Iraq there are three types of folks 
that are trying to stop democracy. First of all, I think it's very 
important for people to understand, one reason they're so violent and 
desperate

[[Page 515]]

is because they're trying to stop a society based upon liberty. And you 
got to ask why. And the reason why is because it's the exact opposite of 
what they believe.
    There are three types. One is Al Qaida, and Al Qaida is headed into 
there. Al Qaida understands the danger of democracy spreading. And so 
Zarqawi, this fellow named Zarqawi, is 
in charge of Al Qaida inside of Iraq, which recruits foreign fighters. 
And they headed into Iraq because they wanted to fight us. They wanted 
to stop democracy.
    Secondly, there are Saddamists. These were the folks that really 
enjoyed a life of privilege. These are people that were top of the heap. 
They were--they represented a minority in the country, but they got all 
the deal--they got all the goods. And they don't like it--when 
Saddam was removed. And so they are trying to 
regroup.
    And the third group are rejectionists. These are essentially Sunnis, 
as well, who really weren't sure as--about whether or not it meant--what 
it meant to have minority rights, whether or not they'd be protected. 
You can understand. They didn't--during Saddam, there was no such thing as minority rights. And so as 
a new society emerged, they were doubtful. And it is those folks that I 
believe will become marginalized as democracy advances. We're seeing the 
Sunnis change their mind about things. They barely voted in the first 
January 2005 elections; they participated overwhelmingly in the December 
2005 elections. In just an 11-month period of time, there was a change 
of attitude to participate in the democratic process.
    And the fundamental question that I know people ask is whether or 
not democracy, one, can take hold in Iraq, and two, will it change 
people's attitude about the future? And I believe it will. History has 
proven that democracies can change societies. The classic case I like to 
cite is Japan. Prime Minister Koizumi is 
one of my best buddies in the international arena, and when we sit down, 
we talk the peace. I find it interesting that he is a peacemaker with me 
on a variety of issues, and yet my dad 
fought the Japanese. And I'm sure many of your relatives did as well.
    Sixty years ago, Japan was the sworn enemy of the United States. 
Today, they're an ally in peace. And what took place? Well, what took 
place was a Japanese-style democracy. I can't say I promise you this, 
but I suspect that if somebody were standing up at the City Club of 
Cleveland talking about, ``Don't worry; someday, Japan is going to be 
peaceful with the United States, and the 43d President is going to be 
designing how keep the peace''--they'd say, ``Get him off the stage.'' 
[Laughter] ``What's he thinking? They're the sworn enemy.'' And now 
they're our ally. So I have faith in the capacity of democracies to help 
change societies.
    And again, I repeat to you, the debate--one of the debates is 
whether or not certain folks can self-govern. There's kind of a--``Maybe 
there are some in the world that aren't capable,'' say the skeptics. I 
strongly disagree with that. I believe there's--hold on a second--I 
believe there's a great desire for people to be free. I believe that. 
And history has proven that democracies don't war with each other. 
Again, I kind of glossed over this, but particularly for the students 
here, look at what happened in Europe over a 100-year period, from the 
early 1900s to today. Europe was at war twice, that cost Americans 
thousands of lives. Today, they don't war, because the systems of 
government changed. Democracies are at peace. Europe is whole, free, and 
at peace.
    And that's an important history lesson for those of us--what I'm 
saying to you, ma'am, is that there is a battle for Iraq now, but it's 
just a part of the war on terror. It's a theater in the war on terror. 
Afghanistan was a theater. And we're in a global battle which requires 
strong alliances, good cooperation, and a constant reminder of the 
nature of this war. So today I met with the Secretary General of 
NATO.

[[Page 516]]

And the first subject that came up was the war on terror and how much I 
appreciated NATO's contribution to helping Afghanistan succeed. But it 
is--the enemy in this case is disgruntled folks inside of Iraq coupled 
with an Al Qaida presence there that wants to harm Americans again.
    I don't know--is your son still in the military?
    Q. Yes, sir.
    The President. Thanks. You tell him the Commander in Chief is proud 
of him. You tell him to listen to his mother too.
    Yes. First, and then second; sir, you're next.

National Economy/Education

    Q. On behalf of the students here from various high school student 
leadership programs, we thank you for speaking with us here at the City 
Club of Cleveland.
    The President. Thanks--I hope it's a convenient excuse to skip 
school, but--[laughter].
    Q. Mr. President, with the war in Iraq costing $19,600 per U.S. 
household, how do you expect a generation of young people such as 
ourselves to afford college at a time like this, when we're paying for a 
war in Iraq?
    The President. Yes. [Applause] Well--hold on for a minute. Hold on. 
We can do more than one thing at one time. And when you grow your 
economy, like we're growing our economy, there is an opportunity to not 
only protect ourselves but also to provide more Pell grants than any 
administration in our Nation's history and increase the student loan 
program. So if you take a look, I think you'll find that we're robust in 
helping--at the Federal level, helping people go to college. And it's 
essential you go to college. It's essential that there be a group of 
youngsters coming up that are well-educated so that we can maintain our 
economic leadership position in the world. We've got a robust program to 
do just that.
    But it's also essential that we keep policies in place that keep the 
economy growing. This economy of ours is strong, and it's--it is, in my 
judgment, growing stronger. But it is possible to put policy in place 
that would weaken it, such as raising taxes. I think we got to keep 
taxes low to keep the economy moving. It's possible to put policy--
[applause]--it's possible to put policy in place that would hurt this 
economy, like protectionist policy. It's possible to--if we keep suing 
our people trying to risk capital, it's conceivable we won't be the 
leader. That's why we need good tort reform. We got to make sure that--
[applause].
    My point to you is, economic growth enables us to do more than one 
thing. And that's what we'll continue to do.
    Yes, sir. Right. No, no, hold on for a minute. Hold on for a minute.

India/Pakistan

    Q. Thank you, Mr. President.
    The President. Yes, sir.
    Q. Every chief needs Indian on their side. [Laughter]
    The President. How long were you working on that for? [Laughter]
    Q. I applaud your vision and foresight to sign a long-term treaty 
with India. But, sir, I am confused that, on one side, you're helping 
democratic countries to flourish and establish democracy in the world 
market, whereas how do we deal with country who has known to harbor 
terrorism, like Pakistan?
    The President. I thought you might be heading there. [Laughter] I, 
obviously, had a trip recently to India and Pakistan and Afghanistan and 
was able to say in India and in Pakistan both, ``It is a positive 
development for America to be a friend of Pakistan. It's a positive 
development for India for America to be a friend of Pakistan, and it's a 
positive development for Pakistan for America to be a friend of India. 
It's an important accomplishment in order to help keep the peace.''

[[Page 517]]

    I don't view our relationships with Pakistan and India as a zero-sum 
relationship. As a matter of fact, I view our relationships with both 
countries as different sets of issues and the need to nurture both 
relationships to achieve common objectives. And we're in a position to 
be able to do so now.
    President Musharraf is a friend to the 
United States. President Musharraf understands that he must help rout 
out Al Qaida, which is hiding in parts of his country. President 
Musharraf was reminded of that the four times Al Qaida tried to kill 
him. He is a--and so I was able to have a very good discussion with the 
President about our mutual concerns in the war on terror. And it's 
important that that dialog go on. It's a very important part of our--me 
doing my most important job, which is to protect you.
    He also said in a press conference that 
he understands that democracy is important. So one of the conversations 
that I had with him in private--I feel comfortable saying this in public 
because he himself brought it up--was the need for democracy to advance 
in Pakistan. History has showed us that democracies don't war.
    What's interesting about the relationship between Pakistan and 
India--and I'll get to India in a minute. I want to say something on 
India, so thanks for bringing it up--is that when we first--when I first 
got into office, I remember asking Colin Powell to go get in between India and Pakistan. There was a lot 
of noise--you might remember, I think it was '01 or '02, where there was 
deep concerns about--I think '01--deep concerns about a potential 
nuclear conflict. And so there was shuttle diplomacy, back and forth 
between India and Pakistan, including not only our--Colin but also Jack 
Straw, the Foreign Minister of Great Britain. And 
you never know how dangerous one of these situations can become until 
it's too late, but nevertheless, we took it very seriously.
    And today, you don't see the need for the United States shuffling or 
Britain shuffling diplomats back and forth, to walk back--walk the two 
countries back from a potential conflict which would be incredibly 
damaging for the world. That's positive. In other words, it's--and I 
give Prime Minister--President Musharraf 
credit, and I give the Indian Prime Ministers--both Vajpayee and the current Prime Minister--credit for--Prime 
Minister Singh--for envisioning what is 
possible, how is it possible to develop a relationship that's a peaceful 
relationship with our neighbor.
    And, sir, I think it's very important for the United States to stay 
engaged with Pakistan and encourage them. We're trying to negotiate an 
investment treaty with them, with the hopes of being able to eventually 
develop more trade with Pakistan, in the belief that trade helps nations 
develop stability and prosperity is achieved through trade.
    India--the visit there was a very important visit. And I want to 
describe to you right quick, so be careful on the questions. You're 
going to have to--you'll leave your hand up for a while. I agreed with 
the Indian Government that India ought to be encouraged to develop a 
nuclear power industry. And that's a controversial decision on my part, 
because it basically flies in the face of old cold war attitudes as well 
as arm control thinking.
    Let me just share the logic with you. First of all, in that we live 
in a global economy, there is a demand for fossil fuels--an increase in 
the demand for fossil fuels in one part of the world affects the price 
of gasoline in our world. We're connected. Whether people like it or 
not, there is an interconnectedness today that affects our economy. 
Somebody's decision overseas affects whether or not people are going to 
be able to work here in America. So I think it makes sense for the 
United States, as we ourselves become less addicted to oil and fossil 
fuels, which I'm serious about, encourage others to do so

[[Page 518]]

as well. And one good way to do so and to protect the environment at the 
same time is to encourage the use of safe nuclear power. It's in our 
interests, our economic interests that we work an agreement with India 
to encourage their expansion of civilian nuclear power.
    Secondly, unlike Iran, for example, India is willing to join the 
IAEA. They want to be a part of the global agreements around nuclear 
power. Thirdly, India has got a record of nonproliferation. They've had 
30 years of not proliferating. Fourthly, India is a democracy and a 
transparent society. You find out a lot about India because there's a 
free press. There is openness. People run for office and are held to 
account. There's committee hearings. It's an open process.
    I feel very comfortable recommending to the United States Congress 
that it's--that they ought to agree with the agreement that Prime 
Minister Singh and I have reached. It's 
important--it's important--it's also an important relationship. For too 
long, America and India were not partners in peace. We didn't deal with 
each other because of the cold war. And now is the time to set the cold 
war behind us. It's over, folks. It no longer is. And let's think about 
the next 30 years.
    And so my hope is someday, somebody will be asking a question, 
``Aren't you glad old George W. thought about entering into a strategic 
relationship with India?'' And I believe it's in our country's interest 
that we have such a relationship and, at the same time, maintain close 
relations with Pakistan. And it's possible to do so. And we are doing 
so.
    Yes, sir.
    How long do you usually ask questions here for? [Laughter]

Terrorist Surveillance Program

    Q. Mr. President----
    The President. The guy is supposed to smile over there. Yes.
    Q. Another theater in the war on terror is domestic. And there's a 
controversy around warrantless wiretaps domestically.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. Could you explain why living within the legislation that allowed 
your administration to get a warrant from a secret court within 72 hours 
after putting in a wiretap wouldn't be just as effective?
    The President. No, I appreciate the question. He's talking about the 
terrorist surveillance program that was--created quite a kerfuffle in 
the press, and I owe an explanation to you. Because our people--first of 
all, after September the 11th, I spoke to a variety of folks on the 
frontline of protecting us, and I said, ``Is there anything more we 
could be doing, given the current laws?'' And General Mike 
Hayden of the NSA said, ``There is.'' The 
FISA law--he's referring to the FISA law, I believe--is--was designed 
for a previous period and is slow and cumbersome in being able to do 
what Mike Hayden thinks is necessarily--called hot pursuit.
    And so he designed a program that will 
enable us to listen from a known Al Qaida or suspected Al Qaida person 
and/or affiliate, from making any phone call outside the United States 
in, or inside the United States out--with the idea of being able to pick 
up, quickly, information for which to be able to respond in this 
environment that we're in. I was concerned about the legality of the 
program, and so I asked lawyers--which you got plenty of them in 
Washington--[laughter]--to determine whether or not I could do this 
legally. And they came back and said yes. That's part of the debate 
which you're beginning to see.
    I fully understood that Congress needed to be briefed. And so I had 
Hayden and others brief Members of the 
Congress, both Republicans and Democrats, House Members and Senators, 
about the program. The program is under constant review. I sign a 
reauthorization every--I'm not exactly sure--45 days, say. It's 
something like that.

[[Page 519]]

In other words, it's constantly being reviewed. There's an IG that is 
very active at the NSA to make sure that the program stays within the 
bounds that it was designed.
    I fully understand people's concerns about it, but ours is a town, 
by the way, in Washington, where when you don't connect the dots, you're 
held up to Congress, and when you do connect the dots, you're held up to 
Congress. I believe what I'm doing is constitutional, and I know it's 
necessary. And so we're going to keep doing it.

Domestic Policy

    Q. Thank you, Mr. President. Your comments today about Iraq have 
been, for me, very enlightening. And I greatly appreciate the level of 
clarity that you've provided. But my question is about domestic policy. 
Today, in our neighborhoods, there are terrorists. Children cannot play 
in some of our neighborhoods. Today, we've got--when you see post-
Katrina, our country was startled at some of the images around poverty 
in some of our cities. Can you be as clear about your domestic policy, 
to address those kinds of things?
    The President. Absolutely. Thanks. Let me start with education, 
which I view as a vital part of providing hope and eradicating poverty. 
I was disturbed, when I was the Governor of Texas, disturbed about a 
system that just moved kids through. There was kind of a process-
oriented world, that said, ``Okay, if you're 10, you're supposed to be 
here; you're 12, you're supposed to be here,'' and on through. It was 
like--without any sense of accountability. If you believe education is 
one of the cornerstones to a hopeful world, then it seems like to me, it 
makes sense that we've got to have a system that measures so we know 
whether or not people are getting educated.
    So when I got to Washington, I proposed what's called No Child Left 
Behind, which passed with both Republican and Democrat votes. And the 
whole spirit of No Child Left Behind is this: It says in return for 
increased Federal money, for particularly Title I students, we expect 
you to measure grades three through eight. We want to see strong 
accountability because we believe every child can learn, and we expect 
every school to teach. That's the whole spirit of the No Child Left 
Behind Act.
    If you--it turns out that if you can solve problems early, if you 
can find out whether or not a curriculum is working or not early on in a 
child's career, we can correct the problems. And so part of the No Child 
Left Behind Act is, when you measure and find somebody not up to--
measuring to par, not meeting standards, there's extra money called 
special service money available in the No Child Left Behind Act to make 
sure that there's early tutoring, to make sure that children are not 
just simply shuffled through, to make sure an accountability system is 
used properly--which is to diagnose and solve problems.
    The No Child Left Behind Act is beginning to work. You know why? 
Because we measure. There was an achievement gap in America; that's bad 
for the country. It's an achievement gap between the difference between 
some Anglo children and some African American children, particularly 
inner city. That's beginning to close.
    We need to apply the same rigor of No Child Left Behind, 
particularly in middle [school]* age, for math and science to make sure 
that we're able to compete for the jobs of the 21st century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *White House correction.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    And so step one, in my judgment, to address exactly what you 
described as true--kind of this enlightenment that, uh-oh, there are 
parts of our society in which people are, in fact, being completely left 
behind--is to make sure the education system is rigorously based upon 
accountability. And when we find the status quo is unacceptable, have 
the political courage to change, demand high standards and change.

[[Page 520]]

    And the cornerstone of demanding change in a system that tends to 
protect itself is measurement. And I realize there are people in my 
party who want to undo No Child Left Behind. And I'm sure there are in 
the other party. But my judgment is, you can't achieve educational 
excellence unless you measure and correct problems.
    Now, there's another aspect to providing a hopeful society, and that 
is to encourage ownership. One of the interesting things about Katrina, 
as you well know, is many of the people displaced did not own their own 
homes, that they were renters. One of the goals that I set for my 
administration through a variety of pretty simple programs--like helping 
with downpayment and education programs, recognizing that interest rates 
drive most of the housing purchases--was to encourage minority 
homeownership. It's now at an alltime high.
    I believe that the idea of empowering our faith-based institutions--
government can help, but government sometimes can't find--well, it just 
doesn't pass--it's just not a loving organization. And so I believe 
strongly--I believe strongly in empowering faith-based and community-
based programs all throughout America to help achieve certain 
objectives. Mentoring, for example, mentoring of children in prisoners--
whose mother or dad may be in prison is an initiative I started. Drug 
rehabilitation, giving those who are eligible for drug money a voucher, 
money themselves, a scrip so they can redeem it at a program that they 
choose, not that the government assigns them to--in other words, there's 
a variety of social service programs aimed at lifting people up.
    And so I--look, many Americans kind of were--didn't really realize 
what's taking place in parts of the country that you've described. And 
Katrina was a wake-up call for many Americans. And now there's an 
opportunity, in my judgment, to take--well, for people to take notice 
and put in policy--put policies in place that help those who need help, 
like community health centers, or--for health care--or expand 
educational opportunities through rigorous accountability systems, and, 
I repeat, demanding change where change is due--needed, and promoting 
ownership.
    Thanks. Good question.

Support for the President

    Q. ----is no shrinking violet. First of all, I want to commend you 
on your presentation today. And I tell you I'm 100 percent behind your 
fight against terrorism. Also----
    The President. Why don't you just leave it at that?
    Q. Oh, no. Oh, no. [Laughter]
    I tell you, one of the reasons I'm qualified to say that; you 
probably heard of Ernie Shavers, the boxer. I trained Ernie Shavers. He 
fought Muhammad Ali, and Muhammad Ali say he hit him so hard, he woke up 
his ancestors in Africa. [Laughter] So I know a little bit about boxing 
and things. But I know in boxing--and I taught over 3,300 children over 
13 years. Two of them fought for world championships, including Ernie 
Shavers. I taught them that the best defense is a good offense. That's 
what you're doing over there now. And I commend you.
    My mom and daddy had moved from Alabama to Ohio in the mid-forties. 
They were the parents of five sons. We all served in the military. I 
served 8 years, and we all served honorably. So I am a marine. I've also 
been a Boy Scout and a firefighter. To lead in, the young person spoke 
about domestic policy. This Wednesday coming, I'll be making my sixth 
trip to the New Orleans/Mississippi area as a contractor. I'm president 
of the Ohio Minority Contracting Association. I want to publicly thank 
Senator Voinovich right now for directing me to Senator Trent Lott, who 
has directed me to Haley Barbour, the Governor down there, who opened up 
opportunities.
    We got people doing debris removal, putting on roofs. And I got a 
$600,000 proposal to feed 22,000 workers down there

[[Page 521]]

who have been underfed. You've been down there. I have too. People are 
working 14 and 16 hours a day. And I've never been so proud to be an 
American, to see the outpouring of people out there helping one another, 
particularly the faith-based community. So I thank you, appreciate you, 
and look forward to putting this proposal in your hand. Thank you.
    The President. Well, let's see, I got an invitation and a proposal. 
[Laughter]
    Yes, sir. Anybody work here in this town? [Laughter]
    Q. Sorry about that. Mr. President, I just finished Ambassador Paul 
Bremer's book, and one of the things I just wanted to say to you and to 
Ambassador Bremer is, thank you for protecting us.
    The President. Thanks.
    You're next.

Immigration Reform

    Q. Okay, my question is----
    The President. We have dueling microphones here. Keep firing away.
    Q. Okay. My question is, since 9/11, one of the key things that we 
need is immigration reform, including comprehensive immigration reform 
that is right now in front of Senator Specter's committee in the 
Judiciary. There are two principles I'm hoping that you would support: 
One, the good people, the engineers, the Ph.D.s, the doctors, the 
nurses, the people in the system who have followed the rules, will go to 
the head of the line in any form of immigration reform. That's title IV 
of the bill.
    Secondly, the illegals who have not followed the rules--I understand 
the debate, I appreciate your statements about immigration reform, but 
isn't it better that we know who they are, have them finger-printed and 
photographed, and allow some form of 245(i) to come back so----
    The President. Tell people what that is. Tell people what 245(i) is.
    Q. Okay--245(i) is a partial amnesty program that expired back in 
2001, in fact, was going to be voted on on 9/11, unfortunately. But 
those--it was a small segment of the illegal population where they would 
pay the $1,000 fine and, for example, coming in illegally, then marrying 
an American citizen, could somehow legalize their status.
    The President. Okay. Let me give you some broad principles on 
immigration reform as I see them. First of all, we do need to know who's 
coming into our country and whether they're coming in illegally or not 
legally--legally or not legally, and whether they're coming in or going 
out. And part of reforms after September the 11th was a better system of 
finding out who's coming here.
    Secondly, we have a big border between Texas and Mexico that's 
really hard to enforce. We got to do everything we can to enforce the 
border, particularly in the South. I mean, it's the place where people 
are pouring across in order to find work. We have a situation in our own 
neighborhood where there are ways--disparities are huge, and there are 
jobs in America that people won't do. That's just a fact. I met an onion 
grower today at the airport when I arrived, and he said, ``You got to 
help me find people that will pull onions,'' or pluck them or whatever 
you do with them, you know. [Laughter] There are jobs that just simply 
aren't getting done because Americans won't do them. And yet if you're 
making 50 cents an hour in Mexico, and you can make a lot more in 
America, and you got mouths to feed, you're going to come and try to 
find the work. It's a big border, of which--across which people are 
coming to provide a living for their families.
    Step one of any immigration policy is to enforce our border in 
practical ways. We are spending additional resources to be able to use 
different detection devices, unmanned UAVs, to help--and expand Border 
Patrol, by the way, expand the number of agents on the border, to make 
sure we're getting them the tools necessary to stop people from coming 
across in the first place.

[[Page 522]]

    Secondly, part of the issue we've had in the past is, we've had--for 
lack of a better word, catch-and-release. The Border Patrol would find 
people sneaking in; they would then hold them for a period of time; 
they'd say, ``Come back and check in with us 45 days later,'' and then 
they wouldn't check in 45 days later. And they would disappear in 
society to do the work that some Americans will not do.
    And so we're changing catch-and-release. We're particularly focusing 
on those from Central America who are coming across Mexico's southern 
border, ending up in our own--it's a long answer, because it's an 
important question: How do we protect our borders and, at the same time, 
be a humane society?
    Anyway, step one, focus on enforcing border; when we find people, 
send them home, so that the work of our Border Patrol is productive 
work.
    Secondly, it seems like to me that part of having a border security 
program is to say to people who are hiring people here illegally, we're 
going to hold you to account. The problem is, our employers don't know 
whether they're hiring people illegally because there's a whole forgery 
industry around people being smuggled into the United States. There's a 
smuggling industry and a forgering industry. And it's hard to ask our 
employers, the onion guy out there, whether or not he's got--whether or 
not the documents that he's being shown which look real are real.
    And so here's a better proposal than what we're doing today, which 
is to say, if you're going to come to do a job that an American won't 
do, you ought to be given a fool-proof card that says you can come for a 
limited period of time and do work in a job an American won't do. That's 
border security, because it means that people will be willing to come in 
legally with a card to do work on a limited basis and then go home. And 
so the agents won't be chasing people being smuggled in 18-wheelers or 
across the Arizona desert. They'll be able to focus on drugs and 
terrorists and guns.
    The fundamental question that he is referring to is, what do we do 
about--there's two questions--one, should we have amnesty? And the 
answer, in my judgment, is, no, we shouldn't have amnesty. In my 
judgment, granting amnesty, automatic citizenship--that's what amnesty 
means--would cause another 11 million people, or however many are here, 
to come in the hopes of becoming a United States citizen. We shouldn't 
have amnesty. We ought to have a program that says, you get in line like 
everybody else gets in line; and that if the Congress feels like there 
needs to be higher quotas on certain nationalities, raise the quotas. 
But don't let people get in front of the line for somebody who has been 
playing by the rules.
    And so--anyway, that's my ideas on good immigration policy. 
Obviously, there's going to be some questions we have to answer: What 
about the person who's been here since 1987--'86 was the last attempt at 
coming up with immigration reform--been here for a long period of time? 
They've raised a family here. And my only advice for the Congress and 
for people in the debate is, understand what made America. We're a land 
of immigrants. This guy is from Hungary, you know. And we got to treat 
people fairly. We've got to have a system of law that is respectful for 
people.
    I mean, the idea of having a program that causes people to get stuck 
in the back of 18-wheelers, to risk their lives to sneak into America to 
do work that some people won't do, is just not American, in my judgment. 
And so I would hope the debate would be civil and uphold the honor of 
this country. And remember, we've been through these periods before, 
where the immigration debate can get harsh. And it should not be harsh. 
And I hope--my call for people is to be rational about the debate and 
thoughtful about what words can mean during this debate.

[[Page 523]]

    Final question, sir. You're paying me a lot of money, and I got to 
go back to work. [Laughter]

Iran

    Q. My name is Jose Feliciano.
    The President. No.
    Q. Yes, it is. [Laughter]
    The President. Yes--it's like the time I called a guy and said, 
``Hey, this is George Bush calling.'' He said, ``Come on, quit kidding 
me, man.'' [Laughter] Que, Jose? Que quiere decir?
    Q.  [Inaudible] [Laughter]
    The President. That's right.
    Q. And, actually, I'm chairman of the Hispanic Roundtable--I was 
going to ask you that same question. However, I'm going to ask you a 
simple one now, and this relates to preemptive self-defense. How is it, 
Mr. President, that Iran today is really different from what Iraq was 3 
years ago?
    The President. Well, first of all, there were 16 Security Council 
resolutions. The world had spoken with a clear voice, not one time; I 
think 16--is that right, Stretch [Richard Keil, Bloomberg News], 16? I'm 
asking a member of the press corps. I like to, like, reverse roles 
sometimes. [Laughter]. Really checking to see if they're paying 
attention, you know. [Laughter] Halfway through, they kind of start 
dozing off. [Laughter]
    But the world had spoken by a lot against Saddam Hussein. There was a diplomatic process. You might remember 
that the Congress, I think in '98, voted a resolution that there should 
be regime change. My predecessor looked at the same intelligence I 
looked at and saw a threat. But the difference--one difference was that 
in Iraq, there was a series of unanimous resolutions that basically held 
the Iraqi Government to account, which Saddam Hussein ignored. It was, 
like, resolution after resolution after resolution.
    The Iranian issue is just beginning to play out. And my hope, of 
course, is, as I said earlier, that we're able to solve this issue 
diplomatically. It's very important that the United States work with our 
allies--in this case, the lead group of negotiators has been Germany, 
France, and Great Britain--so that the Iranians hear a unified voice.
    Now, the voice sometimes--I mean, if you're one--you're negotiators, 
probably got some lawyers here who are good negotiators--it's easier to 
negotiate one person versus six. I'm not suggesting you're a lawyer, you 
know, but I kind of had the feeling you might have been. [Laughter]
    And so it's very important for us to continue to make sure that they 
hear one voice. Nontransparent societies have got an advantage over 
those of us who are transparent, where every move is in the press, every 
opinion is aired out. And so it's very important for us to work to make 
sure that they hear the one voice. Now, you might have read in the 
newspapers where our Ambassador in Iraq, Zal, has reached out to the Iranians to make it clear to 
them about our concerns about involvement in Iraq--Iranian involvement 
in Iraq. It's very important, however for the Iranians to understand 
that the discussion is limited to Iraq. We feel like they need to know 
our position.
    Ultimately, Iraq-Iranian relations will be negotiated between the 
Iraqi Government and the Iranian Government. Ours is just--we're using 
this as an opportunity to make it clear about our concerns of 
interference within a process that is--a democratic process that is 
evolving. Our position is still very clearly that the Iraqis--Iranians 
should not have a program to build a nuclear weapon, and/or the 
capacity, the knowledge necessary to build something which could lead to 
a nuclear weapon. And we're working closely with our allies and friends 
to continue to make that clear to them.
    So the issues are different. The issues are different stages of 
diplomacy.
    Listen, I've enjoyed this. I hope you have as well. God bless.

[[Page 524]]

Note: The President spoke at 12:25 p.m. at the Renaissance Cleveland 
Hotel. In his remarks, he referred to Sanjiv K. Kapur, president, City 
Club of Cleveland; Mayor Frank G. Jackson of Cleveland, OH; senior Al 
Qaida associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi; former President Saddam Hussein of 
Iraq; Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; Secretary General Jakob 
Gijsbert ``Jaap'' de Hoop Scheffer of the North Atlantic Treaty 
Organization; President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan; former Secretary 
of State Colin L. Powell; and former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee 
and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India. The Office of the Press 
Secretary also released a Spanish language transcript of these remarks.