    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2006, Book I)]
    [May 5, 2006]
    [Pages 879-889]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Kai Diekmann of Bild
    May 5, 2006

        The President. Have you ever been in the Oval Office before?
        Mr. Diekmann. Once, a long time ago----
        The President. I'll give you a quick tour before our interview. So
    the first thing that a President does, which I didn't realize, was pick
    a rug. I've have no idea about rugs. And so in this job, you've got to
    delegate. The American President is in a position where there's just
    unbelievable complexities to the job--Darfur, Iran--a whole lot of
    issues. So I delegated the decision about the rug to my wife.
        The second thing a President has got to do is have a strategic mind.
    In order to be successful, in my judgment, as the President, you've got
    to constantly think strategically. And so I said to her, ``You pick out
    the colors; you be the tactical person; but I want it to say,
    `optimistic person.' '' That's all I wanted it to say. Here is the
    result. Isn't it beautiful?
        Mr. Diekmann. Yes, it is very beautiful.
        The President. There's a sense of optimism when you come in here.
    And there's a reason why. You cannot lead people unless you're
    optimistic about what you're doing. You've got to believe it in your
    very soul. One of the interesting things about the Presidency is people
    watch me like a hawk. They're looking at my moves. And if I'm going to
    be wringing my hands and if I'm all worried about the decisions I make--
    are not going to lead to a better tomorrow, they'll figure it out.
        And so when you talk to me today, I just want you to know, I not
    only strongly believe in the decisions I make, I'm optimistic that
    they're going to work--very optimistic.
        These are all Texas paintings. That's west Texas; those are other
    Texas paintings. At least if you're a Texan, it reflects a way of life
    and a way of thinking. The interesting thing about Washington is that
    they want me to change--``they'' being the--and I'm not changing, you
    know. You can't make decisions if you don't know who you are and you
    flip around with the politics. You've got to stay strong in what you
    believe and optimistic about that--you'll get good results.

    [[Page 880]]

        And so--the other thing I want you to know about me is that no
    matter how pressurized it may seem, I'm not changing what I believe.
    Now, I may change tactics, but I'm not going to change my core beliefs--
    a belief that freedom is universal or the belief that private markets
    work, a belief in ownership--when people own something, society is
    better off; a belief that there's a role for government, but it's
    limited in nature. And I'm not changing. I don't care whether they like
    me at the cocktail parties or not. I want to be able to leave this
    office with my integrity intact.
        That's George Washington, the first President, of course. The
    interesting thing about him is that I read three--three or four books
    about him last year. Isn't that interesting? People say, ``So what?''
    Well, here's the ``so what.'' You never know what your history is going
    to be like until long after you're gone--if they're still analyzing the
    Presidency of George Washington--[laughter]. So Presidents shouldn't
    worry about the history. You just can't. You do what you think is right,
    and if you're thinking big enough, that history will eventually prove
    you right or wrong. But you won't know in the short term.
        Lincoln--this is the place on the Oval Office wall where the
    President puts the most--the best President, and I put Lincoln here, and
    I don't think there's any question--now, people will have their--but I
    think he was the most influential President ever. And the reason why is
    because that in the midst of a difficult Presidency, needless to say--
    the Civil War, thousands of people dying, with Americans killing
    Americans--he had a vision of a United States. It's conceivable this
    country would have ended up being two countries had he not had a clear
    vision, even though all around him was seemingly falling apart. He was a
    great President.
        That's called ``A Charge to Keep,'' based upon a religious hymn. The
    hymn talks about serving God. The President's job is never to promote a
    religion. The great thing about America--and Germany, for that matter--
    is that you should be able to worship freely. I like to tell people,
    you're equally American whether you're a Jew, Muslim, Christian, or
    atheist--you're equally all Americans--and that if we ever lose that, we
    begin to look like the Taliban.
        I understand, in parts of Europe, some scoff at my faith. It doesn't
    bother me. But I happen to believe, for me at least, faith is one way to
    make sure that my values stay intact and that I keep life in proper
    perspective, which is a very important part, in my judgment, of being a
    good decisionmaker.
        Finally, the desk, where we'll have our picture taken in front of
    is--nine other Presidents used it. This was given to us by Queen
    Victoria in the 1870s, I think it was. President Roosevelt put the door
    in so people would not know he was in a wheelchair. John Kennedy put his
    head out the door.
        Mr. Diekmann. Yes, the very famous picture----
        The President. That's it--the most famous picture. And then Reagan,
    interestingly enough, put the bottom on there. He was a big guy; he
    didn't want to bump his knees under the desk.
        Anyway, this is the Oval Office. It's a shrine to democracy. And we
    treat it that way. When people walk in here, they don't come in here in
    bathing suits and flip-flops. They come in here dressed like they'd come
    to a shrine. It is to be respected and honored because the Office of the
    President is bigger than the person who occupies it. It's one of the
    great things about a true democracy, is that the institutions outlast
    the individuals, and therefore, there's stability in the process.
        Some Presidents forget that they're not bigger than the Office. But
    all Presidents must always honor the Office and remember it is a sacred
    trust to uphold the honor of the Presidency.
        Mr. Diekmann. Thank you for taking the time.

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        The President. Yes, glad to do it.
        Mr. Diekmann. Bild has 12 million readers. It's the largest
    newspaper in Germany. And there's one thing which is really special
    about our newspaper--every German who wants to work for the newspaper,
    he has to sign in his working contracts some beliefs--and there's the
    belief you have to be for reunification; you have to be against
    totalitarianism from riots on the right side and the left side; and you
    have to be for the peace and for the understanding with Israel. And
    since September 11th, we have a new belief--you have to be for
    partnership with America. Otherwise, you can't work for us, you can't
    come--you have to sign it in your contract.
        The President. My kind of guy. [Laughter]

    War on Terror

        Mr. Diekmann. Okay, so I would like to start. Mr. President, the
    fifth anniversary of the terrible 9/11 attack is nearing. Has the
    Western world really learned the right lessons from 9/11?
        The President. Yes. The Western world, by and large, understands
    that we face an enemy that is coldblooded and will kill innocent life to
    achieve an objective. That killing not only took place on September 11th
    here in our country, but it has taken place in other countries around
    the world since then.
        Secondly, the governments of the Western world understand that in
    order to protect our respective peoples, there must be intelligence
    sharing. We must be willing to converse with each other in ways that
    might not have happened before. In other words, if we know something is
    going to happen in Germany, it's very important for the United States
    Government to call up its counterparts and to share that information.
    And there's a lot of that information sharing.
        Thirdly, we understand that money is what fuels these terror cells.
    And the idea of sharing intelligence about the movement of money is
    necessary to make sure we protect our people.
        The degree of understanding about September the 11th varies,
    however. For some people around the world, September the 11th was just a
    terrible moment. For me and a lot of other people in America, September
    the 11th was a change of attitude; it was a call to arms in the sense
    that this is the first--for America--the first battle of the war in the
    21st century.
        One of the things that I hope people come to understand is that
    there are two ways to defeat this enemy: One is to bring them to justice
    so they don't harm people, which means we've got to be constantly on the
    offense, finding them where they hide and bringing them to justice. And
    secondly is that the way to defeat their hateful ideology is by the
    spread of liberty. That notion--some understand that, and some don't.
    But I want your readers to understand, I fully understand it--that
    liberty will yield peace that we all want.
        And so part of our strategy is to work with countries, particularly
    in the Middle East, to encourage the spread of liberty and freedom. And
    we're making progress there.
        Mr. Diekmann. But still we see bombs in Tel Aviv----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Diekmann. ----suicide bombers. And just a couple of days ago,
    even the U.S. Government delivered a warning that there could be attacks
    and strikes at the World Cup in Germany.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Diekmann. Do you really believe we have a chance to win the war
    against terrorism?
        The President. Absolutely. I know this: That if we don't try to win
    the war on terrorism, the world will be a lot worse off; that if we
    believe these are just isolated incidents and people are maybe just
    temporarily angry, it is an attitude that will ultimately lead to more
    catastrophe, more danger.

    [[Page 882]]

        This is an enemy which is--has clearly stated they have ambitions.
    They want to spread their ideology throughout--starting in the Middle
    East. They want to topple moderate government. They want to--they
    believe capitalists and democrats are soft--by democrats, I mean people
    living in democracies--are soft. They believe it's just a matter of time
    before the Western world tires. They have stated clearly they want
    weapons of mass destruction and that they want safe haven from which to
    launch their attacks. This is what the enemy has said. And I think those
    of us in positions of responsibility must take the words of the enemy
    very seriously.
        They can be defeated, and they will be defeated, so long as we don't
    lose our nerve. And so the United States is committed to finding these
    folks where they hide, to bringing them to justice, which we're doing,
    and to--but recognizing that the world has changed from the world of the
    past because of the spread of liberty. Just look at Europe; it's whole,
    free, and at peace, because democracies live side by side in peace.
    That's one of the great lessons of the 20th century. And it's a lesson
    that must be applied to the 21st century.
        And so, absolutely, we can win this war on terror. The victory in
    the war on terror won't come with a signing ceremony. The victory in the
    war on terror will come as the enemy becomes more and more marginalized.
    You cannot judge defeat or victory on whether or not a suicide bomber is
    able to pull off an attack. You can see progress in the war on terror as
    new democracies take hold around the world and deny--which denies an
    enemy a safe haven.
        And one such democracy that's now evolving and getting stronger is
    Iraq. Another such new democracy is Afghanistan--50 million people who
    once lived under the thumb of a tyrant--or two tyrants now are free. And
    I strongly believe the world is better off for it, and I know that those
    two democracies are a major defeat for the terrorists.

    Relations With the Muslim World

        Mr. Diekmann. We have to learn in dealing with the Muslim world. Do
    we learn the right lessons? Do we have to deal in a different way with
    the Muslim world?
        The President. There is a--there needs to be more understanding
    between the Muslim world and the Western world. There needs to be a
    better understanding of the true beliefs of their respective religions.
    We must understand, words mean things to different people. There's got
    to be a better way to communicate with ourselves. Sometimes my own
    messages send signals that I don't mean to send--but stirs up anxieties
    in the Muslim world.
        On the other hand, I take great comfort in knowing that the true
    Muslim--Islam, itself, is a peaceful religion, and those who adhere to
    Islam are people that respect the rights of others. And there's common
    values in the great religions. And what we cannot allow happen is for
    these totalitarians, these Islamic extremists, to distort a great
    religion and define the nature of that religion.
        And so there's a lot of work that needs to be done between America
    and the West and the Muslim world, but we can do that work without
    sacrificing the need to defend ourselves and without condemning people
    to tyranny.

    Europe-U.S. Relations

        Mr. Diekmann. How important is the partnership between the United
    States and Europe when it comes to the war on terror?
        The President. The partnership between the United States and Europe
    is a vital partnership that transcends the war on terror. Part of our
    relationship is working together in the war on terror, but there are
    many other areas where we can and will continue to work together.
        One such area is, obviously, trade. Europe and the United States
    benefit from free and fair trade. Another area is to help those who are
    afflicted with disease, like

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    HIV/AIDS on the continent of Africa. Another is to deal with suffering
    that we see in the world. And hopefully, we'll be very strong in our
    determination to end the genocide in Darfur of Sudan.
        But when the United States and Europe cooperate, we can achieve
    security for our people and enhance the prosperity for our people as
    well--as well as do our duty. See, I believe there's a duty to help ease
    the suffering in the world. I believe in the admonition that to whom
    much is given, much is required. And the United States--the people of
    the United States have been given a lot. We're a blessed nation--and
    same for the people of Europe. And we have a duty to work together to
    help relieve the suffering of those who are less fortunate.

    Russia-U.S. Relations/Democracy in Russia

        Mr. Diekmann. In this context, is Russia a reliable democratic
    partner?
        The President. Russia is a country in transition. And if you really
    think about where our fathers, at our age, if they had been sitting
    around talking about Russia--maybe a little younger--they would have
    been talking about an enemy, the great Soviet Union. And by the way,
    that enemy at that point in time bound the relationship between Germany
    and the United States--at least a part of Germany and the United
    States--very closely. It gave us a common front.
        So Russia no longer is that enemy, and that's a major change.
    Secondly, Russia is a country that has made some signals that are mixed
    signals, signals that allow--cause us to question their commitment to
    whether or not they intend to become a true democracy, where there's a
    freedom of the press or freedom of religion, all the different freedoms
    that are inherent in democracy.
        I, personally, have a working relationship with Vladimir
    Putin, and that's very important. I've got
    a warm relationship with him. It's a relationship where I can sit down
    with him and ask him direct questions as to why he's made the decisions
    he's made. It's a relationship where he questions me about what the
    intentions of the United States may be. It's one that I value, and I
    think it's an important relationship not only for the United States to
    have, but it's an important relationship for countries in Europe, for
    the United States to have a relationship with Vladimir Putin.
        One of our concerns is economic nationalism, to a certain extent,
    where he's using his oil companies to
    achieve what appears to be political objectives. And we make our
    concerns known when someone uses natural gas, for example, to effect--to
    send signals to government. As you might recall, Secretary Rice was in Europe, and she spoke out loudly about the
    gas contracts with Ukraine. And the reason she did that is it's--we have
    a duty to express our concerns, but in such a way that the relationship
    is one that--where, at my level, I'm able to be comfortable in
    discussing concerns with Vladimir Putin.
        We've got commonality when it comes to dealing with proliferation.
    It's very important that the United States and Russia work closely to
    make sure that nuclear materials are stored as safely as possible. We've
    got commonality when it comes to fighting the war on terror. And we've
    now got a new, important issue to work together on, as well as working
    together with Germany and others, and that's Iran.

    Germany's Role in the War on Terror

        Mr. Diekmann. What role must Germany play in the war on terror?
        The President. Germany plays a vital role in the war on terror.
    Germany is in the heart of Europe. Germany is--whether it's this current
    administration or the previous administration, we have had a--amongst
    our intelligence services as well as our law enforcement services--a
    close coordination and a close discussion. Germany's will is important.
    When the German Chancellor stands up and says, ``The war on terror

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    must be won,'' or--``is a vital part of the security of our peoples,''
    people around the world listen. Germany plays a very important role.

    Iraq

        Mr. Diekmann. Taking a look at the past, do the Americans feel that
    the Germans abandoned them when they went to war with Saddam Hussein?
        The President. I've come to realize that the nature of the German
    people are such that war is very abhorrent, that Germany is a country
    now that is--no matter where they sit on the political spectrum, Germans
    are--just don't like war. And I can understand that. There's a
    generation of people who had their lives torn about because of a
    terrible war.
        I felt like--I made the decision I made based upon my full
    understanding that threats must be dealt with before they come to
    fruition. And I fully understood during that period of time not
    everybody would agree with me. And so we put together a significant
    coalition and followed through on a difficult decision.
        The point now is not what went on in the past; the point now is, how
    do we work together to achieve important goals? And one such goal is a
    democracy in Germany. And I appreciate the German Government's--previous
    Government's support and this Government's support of helping the Iraqis
    rebuild their lives. Training missions are important. Debt relief was
    important. Gerhard Schroeder relieved the
    debt on Iraq. And all those gestures are very important gestures that
    say that even though people disagreed with the decision to go into Iraq,
    we now agree that it's important that a democracy in Iraq succeed. And
    that's how I view the relationship.

    Democracy in Iraq

        Mr. Diekmann. The dictator is on trial now, but at the same time,
    the violence in Iraq is getting worse. Is it really a victory? Is the
    war against Iraq really a success?
        The President. Oh, yes, it's going to be a success, absolutely. When
    12 million people go to the polls--listen, these people lived under a
    brutal tyrant. People seem to forget, quickly forget, the nature of
    Saddam Hussein. This is a man who had used
    weapons of mass destruction on his own people. He had invaded his
    neighbors--Kuwait. He was shooting at U.S. aircraft. He was violating
    sanctions. He had--as we now know, he had been using the Oil-For-Food
    Programme to enhance his own standing inside the country. We didn't find
    the weapons of mass destruction that everybody thought he had, but we do
    know he still had the capacity of making weapons of mass destruction. He
    had ties to terrorist groups.
        Removing Saddam Hussein has made the
    world a safer place. We found--particularly for Iraqis. We found graves
    stuffed full of Iraqi men, women, and children. This guy was a brutal,
    brutal tyrant.
        But it is hard work to go from a tyranny to a country based upon
    liberty. We've been there 3 years. And I think if you look at the
    history of--in post-World War II, it took a long period of time to
    recover. And yet we live in a world where there's supposed to be instant
    success. And my work and the work of those of us in Iraq require
    patience, and the need is to give the Iraqi people a chance. And they
    haven't let us down.
        Just think about what happened in December: 12 million people voted.
    That's a lot of people going to the polls in the face of intimidation
    and threats. These are people that had no chance to express themselves
    at a ballot box during Saddam Hussein--in
    free elections. And yet when given a chance, they went to the polls. And
    now what you're seeing is the formation of a unity government. You've
    got Shi'a, Sunni, and Kurds, all committed to a unity government, all
    willing to fight off the terrorists, to get rid of the militias, and to
    form a

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    government that the Iraqi people can be proud of.
        And no question, there's still Al Qaida, which has said they want
    Iraq as a base from which to attack, willing to recruit suicide bombers.
    Those are hard to stop. But slowly but surely, the Iraqis, with American
    help, are reconciling their differences politically, are marginalizing
    those who are still loyal to Saddam, and are
    bringing the Al Qaida and the foreign fighters to justice.

    Iran

        Mr. Diekmann. But Iraq--it's still a long journey to peace, and now
    there's a new threat. You already mentioned it; that is Iran.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Diekmann. Iran is on the way to a nuclear program. How are we
    going to prevent them from making true what they threaten us, for
    example, in destroying Israel?
        The President. You know, it's interesting; the world in which we
    live is one that requires great confidence in our values and strength of
    purpose. And we are challenged with the Iranian issue. And I want your
    readers to know that it is my desire and my belief we can solve this
    diplomatically. And the best way to solve this issue diplomatically is
    for there to be common purpose amongst the nations of the world.
        Any diplomatic solution requires agreement on the goal. And there is
    solid agreement that the Iranians should not have a nuclear weapon or
    the knowledge and capacity how to make a nuclear weapon. That
    agreement--when I say that's the agreement, it's the agreement amongst
    Germany, France, Great Britain, the United States, Russia, China, and a
    lot of other nations. We all agree. And that's the most important step.
    If we didn't agree on the goal, it would be impossible to put together a
    coalition, a group of nations anxious to say to the Iranians with one
    voice, ``You're not going to have a weapon.''
        The way forward diplomatically, because of the intransigence of the
    Iranian Government, is to go into the United Nations Security Council.
    And that's where we're headed, and we are working closely with our
    counterparts to develop the tactics to move forward once in the United
    Nations Security Council. Our message there is, the Iranians have defied
    the world, and you're now isolated, and it's your choice to make. They
    must make the choice to give up their weapons.
        People have said to me, ``Well, why aren't you at the negotiating
    table?'' We are at the negotiating table--in this sense: We're with our
    partners on a regular basis. I think about this issue a lot. I talk to
    respective leaders a lot; the United States laid down the Security
    Council resolution, along with others. I speak to Angela Merkel quite frequently on this subject. It is the number-one
    item on our agenda when it comes to international coalitions. And the
    thing that we've got to do is be effective. And what the Iranians are
    looking forward is weakness among our group. They want to see how firm
    we are. So one of my jobs is to keep people firm in our resolve. And
    it's easy, by the way, with your Chancellor. She is firm in her resolve.

    Threat of Terror/Iran

        Mr. Diekmann. The German Chancellor and the new head of state,
    Olmert, of Israel, they said the Iranian President is as dangerous as
    Adolf Hitler. Do you share their view?
        The President. I think that it's very important for us to take his
    words very seriously. When people speak, it is important that we listen
    carefully to what they say and take them seriously. For example, when Al
    Qaida speaks, I take their words seriously. When bin Laden says, ``We'll bring harm to the West,'' I take them
    seriously. When Zarqawi says, ``It's
    just a matter of time for the U.S. to get out of Iraq so we can have
    safe haven,'' I take him seriously. Zawahiri, the number-two man in

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    Al Qaida, he's constantly speaking about their grand designs to spread
    their ideology.
        And when Ahmadi-nejad speaks, we
    need to take it seriously. And when he says he wants to destroy Israel,
    the world needs to take that very seriously. It's a serious threat. It's
    a threat to an ally of the United States and Germany. But what he's also
    saying is if he's willing to destroy one country, he'd be willing to
    destroy other countries. And therefore, this is a threat that has got to
    be dealt with in a way that--where the world--this is an important
    moment for the world to come together and deal with this in a way that's
    diplomatic, so that the next person who thinks or the next country that
    thinks they can threaten will understand that there is an effective
    response.
        Mr. Diekmann. Do you rule out, as a last resort, a military
    intervention against Iran?
        The President. As you know, I have said this on German soil; I've
    said it on U.S. soil, that my first choice is to solve this
    diplomatically. I think we can, but all options are on the table.

    President's Relationship With Foreign Leaders

        Mr. Diekmann. Mr. President, it seems that since Chancellor Angela
    Merkel took office, the ice age between Washington and Berlin is over.
    Are good personal ties really so important for the relationship between
    America and Germany?
        The President. I've always felt like it's important to establish
    personal ties with my counterpart. And the reason why is, is that the
    role of a President is to be a strategic thinker as well as to be able
    to understand the tactics necessary to achieve the strategic objectives.
    And in order to be able to work strategically with my counterparts, I've
    got to have a personal relationship with them. I've got to be in a
    position such that when they speak, I listen, and when I speak, they
    listen, so they know that there is a compatibility to the point where
    we're comfortable sharing ideas as we try to work together to solve
    problems.
        And this world is full of problems. You're in the Oval Office during
    this interview--there are--Sudan, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Israel-
    Palestine--I mean, that's just to name a few of the problems that come
    to this desk that I deal with on a regular basis. In order for us to be
    effective, I've got to have a personal relationship with other leaders
    so that we can work together to achieve common objectives.

    Germany/Leadership

        Mr. Diekmann. During a state visit in 1989, your father described
    Germany as ``partner leadership.''
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Diekmann. Does this statement still apply today?
        The President. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's manifesting itself
    on the Iranian issue. Chancellor Merkel has
    been strong. It's very important for the Iranians to know that there is
    a Germany committed to working with others to send the strong message to
    the Iranians that their nuclear ambitions, their nuclear weapons
    ambitions, will cause them isolation in the world in which we live.

    President's Upcoming Visit to Germany

        Mr. Diekmann. You will visit Germany in July. What would you--did
    Angela Merkel ask what you would like to see in Germany?
        The President. It's really interesting. She felt like it was important for me to go to East
    Germany--old East Germany. There is no East Germany now--the old East
    Germany. And, one, I appreciated that a lot. You know, we're all
    products of how we are raised and, in many ways, where we were raised.
    If people want to get to know me better, they've got to know my parents and the values
    my parents instilled in me and the fact that I was raised in west Texas,
    in the middle of the desert, a long way away from anywhere, hardly.

    [[Page 887]]

    There's a certain set of values you learn in that experience.
        I was very intrigued by dealing with a very strong woman who had been raised in a Communist country and what it
    meant--what it meant. I spent some time with her upstairs in the private
    dining quarters here in the White House complex, listening to her. I
    asked her what it was like to grow up as a child. And the interesting
    thing--she first described her mother and
    father, which said a lot to me about the kind
    of person she is. I thought that was really insightful. She talked about
    her dad, the pastor, and her mom. She talked about going to school in a
    Communist system. And she told me she wanted me to come to her home,
    which, in my part of the world, at least where I'm from, inviting
    somebody to your home is a gesture of generosity. It's hospitality that
    is very gracious.
        And so I'm really looking forward to going. I'll let her plan my
    itinerary once I get there. And it's going to be a very fascinating
    moment for me. And I thank her very much for her invitation.

    President's Views on Germany

        Mr. Diekmann. Are there things that bother you about the Germans?
    And are there things that you envy about the Germans?
        The President. I am--look, I mean, Germans have always been
    incredibly efficient, capable businesspeople, and when they make a
    product, it is always of the highest of quality. The only thing that
    interests me about Germany is--it's not bothersome, but it's just a
    challenge for Germany--is the absorption of East and West, and the
    difficult assignment it is to really help the eastern Germany develop an
    economy that will be able to give people hope. But, again, I have great
    respect for Germany.

    Trade With Germany

        Mr. Diekmann. What kind of role does Germany play in the world?
        The President. Germany is vital for the European Union's vitality.
    And Germany--and that's important for the United States. Listen, we want
    our trading partners to be strong. If you--if we have trade between one
    another, it really helps when there's economic vitality with your
    partner. You want your partner doing well. Trade is not a zero-sum game.
    Trade is an opportunity for a mutually beneficial relationship. And
    therefore, we want the European Union's economy as a whole to be doing
    well. And Germany has a great--when Germany's economy is vibrant, it has
    a chance to really help all the countries around her to grow well.

    National Economy

        Mr. Diekmann. The U.S. economy is booming.
        The President. Yes, it is, thankfully.
        Mr. Diekmann. Yes. It is booming because you made big tax cuts.
        The President. True.
        Mr. Diekmann. What do you think about the Germans--are you--they
    acting correctly if they increase taxes now?
        The President. We have--our economy is booming for several reasons.
    One is, no question, the tax cuts help, and I intend to keep our taxes
    low. Secondly, our work rules are very flexible, and so is our economy.
        We've got some issues that put us at a competitive disadvantage, and
    one is we've got too many lawsuits. And we're trying to do something
    about that. I am smart enough, however, to allow each country to make
    its own fiscal decisions as suits the needs of their constituents and
    the people.

    Pope Benedict XVI

        Mr. Diekmann. You are a practicing Christian. Does having a German
    Pope 60 years after World War II have a special meaning to you?
        The President. You know, it's interesting that the last two Holy
    Fathers were from the same neighborhood. The Holy Father

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    who just passed away, who was a great man, came from Poland and really
    helped rally the spirits of the people to challenge the tyranny of
    communism. And the current Holy Father came from a country torn asunder
    by war and is witness to a renewal of a united Germany. And I think it
    helps the world to have that perspective in a very important position of
    leadership. I admire the two Popes. These are strong, capable men who
    challenge the concept of moral relevancy.

    The Presidency

        Mr. Diekmann. Three last very short questions. What was the most
    wonderful moment in your terms of being President so far, and what was
    the most awful moment?
        The President. The most awful moment was September the 11th, 2001.
        Mr. Diekmann. The famous picture, when somebody gave you the
    information?
        The President. Yes, that. I think, like all of us, it took a while
    for the--it was more than a moment. It was the event and the aftermath.
    On a situation like that, it takes a period to understand exactly what
    was going on. When somebody says, ``America is under attack,'' and--
    you've got to fully understand what that meant. And the information
    coming was haphazard at best for a while. We weren't sure if the State
    Department got hit. I'd heard the White House had got attacked. Of
    course, I was worried that--my family was here.
        And so I would say the toughest moment of all was after the whole
    reality sunk in, and I was trying to help the Nation understand what was
    going on, and at the same time, be empathetic for those who had lost
    lives.
        The best moment was--you know, I've had a lot of great moments. I
    don't know, it's hard to characterize the great moments. They've all
    been busy moments, by the way. I would say the best moment was when I
    caught a 7\1/2\ pound largemouth bass on my lake. [Laughter]

    2006 World Cup

        Mr. Diekmann. Perfect. Very last question--you're a great sports
    fan.
        The President. Yes, I am.
        Mr. Diekmann. How important is the international World Cup in
    Germany? And what is your personal take on who will be at the end, the
    world champion?
        The President. Listen, the World Cup is a--first of all, most
    Americans, up until recently, didn't understand how big the World Cup
    is. And we're beginning to understand. And the reason why is, a lot of
    us grew up not knowing anything about soccer, like me. I never saw
    soccer as a young boy. We didn't play it where I was from. It just
    didn't exist. I can't even--I'm thinking about all the--between age 6,
    when I can remember sports, and 12 or 13, I just never saw soccer being
    played.
        And so there's a generation of us that really weren't fanatic.
    There's a new generation of Americans that did grow up on soccer. And
    there's obviously a huge interest amongst that crowd in the World Cup.
    And some of us older guys are now beginning to understand the
    significance of the World Cup around the world. It is the major sporting
    event worldwide, and it's got to be a great honor for Germany to host
    the event. And I'm confident that the German people will do a
    magnificent job of welcoming people from around the world.
        And, of course, my team is the U.S. team. They tell me we've got a
    good team. Now, whether it's good enough to win it all, who knows? But I
    know they'll try their hardest.
        Mr. Diekmann. Mr. President, thank you very much.

    Note: The interview was taped at 1:55 p.m. in the Oval Office at the
    White House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred
    to President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia; former President Saddam
    Hussein of Iraq; former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Chancellor
    Angela Merkel of Germany;

    [[Page 889]]

    Usama bin Laden, leader of the Al Qaida terrorist organization; senior
    Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi; and President Mahmud Ahmadi-
    nejad of Iran. Mr. Diekmann referred to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of
    Israel. The transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary
    on May 7. A tape was not available for verification of the content of
    this interview.