    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2005, Book II)]
    [November 20, 2005]
    [Pages 1751-1756]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks and an Exchange With Reporters in Beijing
    November 20, 2005

    President's Visit to China/Domestic Debate on Iraq

        The President. Thank you all. We started our day here going to a
    church service that was really uplifting. I was--I wasn't sure what to
    expect, and I can tell you that the service was full of spirit, and the
    preacher gave a really good sermon. She was--I'm
    sure you made her nervous with all the cameras and everything, but she
    was really good. And it was a wonderful way to start the morning.
        As I mentioned to the President as well as to you all on the steps
    of the church, a society that welcomes religion is a wholesome society;
    it's a whole society. And I felt like the church service was a
    affirmation of my strong belief that people should be able to worship
    freely, and I shared that with President Hu.
        I was also pleased with our talks with both President Hu and Premier Wen. And we have a
    complex relationship, and it's a really important relationship. I mean,
    China is a big, growing, strong country. And it's very important for me
    to maintain a good working relationship with the leadership here. And
    we've got that. And the reason that's important is that it enables me to
    talk about the values that are important to America. It also enables me
    to talk about the interests of our workers and farmers. China is a
    trading partner, and we expect the trade with China to be fair. We
    expect our people to be treated fairly here in this important country.
        And so I had a chance to talk about a variety of subjects,
    intellectual property rights and the currency, access to our markets for
    U.S. beef. And it was a good, frank discussion.
        Finally, I had a bike ride. I'd like to clarify my comments.
    Compared to Crawford, this trail is a great bike trail and really
    difficult. It is clear that I couldn't make the Chinese Olympic cycling
    team. But I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun to ride with those
    six young Chinese athletes, and I hope they enjoyed it as well. It was a
    good experience.
        There's also an important debate underway back in Washington about
    the way forward in Iraq. I particularly want to discuss the position
    that Democrat Congressman John Murtha
    announced this past week. Let me start off by saying that Congressman
    Murtha is a fine man, a good man, who served our country with honor and
    distinction as a marine in Vietnam and as a United States Congressman.
    He is a strong supporter of the United States military. And I know the
    decision to call for an immediate withdrawal of our troops by
    Congressman Murtha was done in a careful and thoughtful way.
        I disagree with his position. An
    immediate withdrawal of our troops from Iraq will only strengthen the
    terrorists' hand in Iraq and in the broader war on terror.

    [[Page 1752]]

    That's the goal of the enemy. They want to break our will in Iraq so
    that we leave and they can turn Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the
    Taliban, a safe haven for terror, a place where they can plot and plan
    attacks against America and freedom-loving countries around the world.
        Our military strategy is aimed at targeting the terrorists and
    training the Iraqis. Iraq authorities have made clear they want us to
    help them. They want us to help them defeat the terrorists, and they
    want us to train their own security forces, which is what we're doing.
        I also recognize that the Iraqi people look forward to the day when
    Iraqi forces can secure their country and defend their freedom. It's
    only natural that the Iraqi people look forward to the day when they're
    fully prepared to defeat this enemy. I look forward to the day when the
    Iraqis are fully prepared to do that.
        And we're making good progress. More and more Iraqis are taking the
    fight to the enemy, and day by day, they're assuming more responsibility
    for their own security. And as the Iraqi security forces gain strength
    and experience, we can lessen our troop presence in the country without
    losing our capability to effectively defeat the terrorists. A reduced
    presence of coalition forces will clearly demonstrate to the Iraqi
    people that we have no ambition to occupy their country. As I've often
    said, we'll stay as long as necessary but not one day more. Yet leaving
    prematurely will have terrible consequences for our own security and for
    the Iraqi people. And that's not going to happen so long as I'm the
    President.
        This is a debate worthy of our country. It's an important debate. It
    does not have to be a partisan issue. Fine Democrats like Senator Joe
    Lieberman share the view that we must
    prevail in Iraq. Bipartisan majorities in the House and the Senate
    rejected calls for immediate withdrawal. My decisions in Iraq will
    continue to be guided by the sober judgment of the military commanders
    on the ground in Iraq. Those elected leaders in Washington who do not
    support our policies in Iraq have every right to voice their dissent.
    They also have a responsibility to provide a credible alternative. The
    stakes are too high and the national interest too important for anything
    otherwise.
        Now I'll be glad to answer some questions, starting with Jennifer
    [Jennifer Loven, Associated Press].

    Democracy and Human Rights Issues in China

        Q. Thank you, sir. Can you talk about why you have chosen to talk
    more about the need for greater religious freedoms in China than the
    need for greater political freedoms?
        The President. Well, they go hand in hand. A society which
    recognizes religious freedom is a society which will recognize political
    freedoms as well. China has undergone an amazing transformation in its
    economy. It's a much freer economy than any time in its past. And as a
    result, the people are becoming more prosperous. I've always believed
    that a free economy will yield a freer political system.
        I think about South Korea. South Korea opened its economy up, and
    then political reforms followed. And part of a system which recognizes
    the right of people to express themselves is a system which also
    recognizes the right of people to worship freely. And in my discussions
    with the leadership in China, of course, I talked about both political
    and religious freedom.
        Caren [Caren Bohan, Reuters].

    Discussions With President Hu

        Q. Thank you, sir. Do you feel that you've got the commitments that
    you sought from President Hu on issues like currency reform and trade?
    And also, are you concerned about a crackdown reported on Chinese
    dissidents ahead of your visit?
        The President. I'm always concerned about somebody who is trying to
    express themselves in the public square, express

    [[Page 1753]]

    their opinion, being cracked down by a state. And it's--again, in my
    discussions with President Hu, I talked about a variety of concerns:
    One, that the NGOs here in China ought to be treated fairly; secondly,
    that we have given the Chinese Government a list of dissidents that we
    believe are improperly in prison--imprisoned.
        I talked about the Dalai Lama. I
    thought it would be wise for the Chinese Government to invite the Dalai
    Lama so he can tell them exactly what he told me in the White House the
    other day, that he has no desire for an independent Tibet. I talked
    about the Catholic Church, the need for this Government to invite
    leaders from the Vatican to come and discuss religious freedoms in
    China. So we discussed a lot of areas of concern about the condition of
    the dissidents and people who want to express themselves.
        In terms of the currency, this Government made a decision last July
    to reform their currency. It was a structural reform, and I applaud
    that. I also reminded the leaders that we've seen some movement but not
    much in the currency valuation. And I explained to them as clearly as I
    could that the value of the Chinese currency is very important for
    manufacturers and farmers and workers in the United States.
        In terms of intellectual property rights, that's been a concern that
    many have expressed to me in our country and wanted me to express to the
    leadership in China. And I made it clear that if you've got a vibrant
    economy and people feel uncomfortable about piracy of product, that it's
    going to affect the economy in the long run. And they recognize that. As
    a matter of fact, Premier Wen went through a list
    of crackdowns this Government has taken on intellectual property rights.
        I talked about market access, the need to make sure that we've got
    access to Chinese markets like they've got to ours. And that's a very
    important subject in America, as you know, and it's one that I relayed
    to both President Hu and Premier Wen. I applauded the fact that through hard work, that we
    came up with a good textile agreement, which is important. I was pleased
    to see that the Chinese Government ordered Boeing aircraft.
        The relationship, however, is one that it's got to be close enough
    that we can--need to consistently remind our Chinese friends that
    structural reform is really what the United States Government is talking
    about with China.
        Let's see--Bill Roberts [Bloomberg News].

    Domestic Debate on Iraq

        Q. Thank you, Mr. President.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. It used to be that it was said that politics stopped at the
    water's edge. On this trip, clearly, the debate over Iraq has followed
    you. Were you at all disappointed by that? And why do you think it is
    that the Iraq debate in the last week has been so intense?
        The President. Well, I'm not surprised that people are talking about
    Iraq. Iraq is a vital issue for the United States of America. And it's--
    we're at war, and people, of course, have got strong opinions about war.
    On the trip here, by the way, I was most pleased that many of the
    leaders at the APEC conference understood the stakes in Iraq, that a
    democracy in the heart of the Middle East will make the entire world
    more peaceful.
        It's a--this is a worthy debate, and I'm going to repeat something
    I've said before: People should feel comfortable about expressing their
    opinions about Iraq. I heard somebody say, ``Well, maybe so-and-so is
    not patriotic because they disagree with my position.'' I totally reject
    that thought. This is not an issue of who's patriotic and who's not
    patriotic. It's an issue of an honest, open debate about the way forward
    in Iraq.
        I am confident we will succeed in Iraq. I'm confident that the Iraqi
    forces will be trained. I am confident the political process

    [[Page 1754]]

    will, slowly but surely, marginalize those that are trying to stop the
    march of democracy. And I also know that we have got to make sure that
    Iraq does not become a safe haven for terrorists. It's very important
    for--during this debate to listen to the words of Zawahiri, who's the number-two man of Al Qaida, where he has
    made it very clear that his intention and the intention of his henchman,
    Zarqawi, is to drive us out of Iraq
    before we have completed the mission.
        And there's a reason why he wants us
    out of Iraq, because he wants Iraq to be a safe haven. He wants to be
    able to find a place where he and his forces can plot and plan against
    the United States of America. They were--the Al Qaida, the enemy was
    able to do just that in Afghanistan. They plotted and planned a
    monstrous attack on the United States of America. And that attack of
    September the 11th is a lesson we should never forget.
        Secondly, a democracy in Iraq is going to send a clear example of
    what is possible to other reformers in the region. There are people in
    Iran that are interested in freedom. And when Iraq succeeds, the people
    in Iran will see what is possible, that it's possible to have a
    government that actually listens to the people and responds to the needs
    of the people. A free Iraq will send a clear example to the Palestinians
    of what is possible in the Middle East. And I believe there will be a
    Palestinian state that is democratic in nature and at peace with its
    neighbor, Israel. Lebanon is an example of a society which is shedding
    itself of a--of its neighbor, Syria, and it's strengthening its
    democracy.
        You know, it's interesting here in the Far East that we have this
    discussion about Iraq, and it's an appropriate place to think about the
    stakes in Iraq, because, after all, Japan was our sworn enemy. And after
    World War II, the Japanese adopted a Japanese-style democracy, which
    yielded a peaceful partner, an ally. It's amazing to think that in 60
    years, Japan has gone from enemy to ally in keeping the peace. The
    spread of democracies here in the Far East have made this part of the
    world a peaceful region.
        And so the stakes are enormously high in Iraq, and I can understand
    why there's a debate. And I suspect there's going to be a debate for a
    long time coming in Iraq, as there should be. This is a serious matter
    of national concern.
        Let's see--Suzanne [Suzanne Malveaux, Cable News Network].

    Representative Murtha/U.S. Strategy in
    Iraq

        Q. If I could follow up on your comments on Congressman Murtha. You
    said that he was a fine man and that he probably made this in a
    thoughtful manner. Congressman Murtha has also used the fact that
    neither you nor the Vice President has served in combat as part of his
    criticism of Iraq policy as well as the administration's campaign to
    defend it. Do you believe that that is relevant to the debate? And is
    there any concern that the attacks on either side are becoming overly
    personal?
        The President. No, I don't think the Vice President's service is relevant in this debate. And I would hope all
    of us in this debate talk about the policy and have an honest, open
    debate about whether or not it makes sense to immediately withdraw our
    troops. My position is very clear: It does not make sense. It will make
    America less secure. Iraq is a battlefront in the war on terror, and
    it's vital that we succeed in this particular battle in the war on
    terror.
        And our strategy is proceeding. There's a political strategy, and as
    I said the other day, or I said a couple of times, the progress in Iraq
    is amazing when you think--the political progress. I mean, they've gone
    from tyranny to the election of a Transitional National Government to
    the ratification of a constitution. And they're about to have elections
    again. And all this took place in 2\1/2\ years. When you compare it to
    our own history, our road

    [[Page 1755]]

    was quite bumpy getting to a constitution. And so the progress is
    strong.
        The other progress that's being made is the training of the Iraqi
    forces. And more and more of the forces are more capable of taking the
    fight to the enemy. And as that happens and as our commanders on the
    ground inform me that Iraq's security can be maintained by Iraqi troops,
    we will adjust accordingly.
        Let's see--Mike [Mike Allen, Time].

    Religious Freedom in China

        Q. Thank you very much, Mr. President. If I might follow up
    Jennifer's question. When you expressed to President Hu the importance
    of people being able to worship freely, did he express any interest in
    helping people of various faiths do that? Did he make any commitment to
    you for improvements? And, Mr. President, how repressed or restricted do
    you believe Christians are right now in this country?
        The President. It's a really interesting question. You know, Dr.
    Luis Palau was with me, and we spent time in the
    limousine on the way to the church talking about his views of
    Christianity here in China. He believes there are about a hundred
    million Christians, and that they are--they're worshiping in a way that
    is able to call upon the Almighty to help them through their lives. And
    that's the spirit I found in the church.
        President Hu is a thoughtful fellow. He
    listened to what I had to say. And I thought it was very interesting in
    his comments that he talked about human rights. Those who watch China
    closely would say that maybe a decade ago, a leader wouldn't have
    uttered those comments. He talked about democracy. And so to answer your
    question, he took it on board in a very thoughtful manner.
        Herman [Ken Herman, Austin American-Statesman], last question.

    China-U.S. Relations

        Q. Respectfully, sir--and you know we're always respectful--
    [laughter]----
        The President. Most of the time.
        Q. ----in your statement this morning with President Hu, you seemed
    a little off your game. You seemed to hurry through your statement, and
    there was a lack of enthusiasm----
        The President. When? Here, right now?
        Q. No, this morning with President Hu. Was something bothering you?
    Were you tired?
        The President. Have you ever heard of jetlag?
        Q. Yes, sir.
        The President. Well, good. That answers your question.
        Q. There was nothing he said, I mean, in the meeting?
        The President. No, not at all. Listen, the relationship with China
    is a good, vibrant, strong relationship. And we have frank discussions,
    and that's what you want at my level of Government. You want to be able
    to sit down with somebody and say, ``Listen, here are my concerns.''
        I always say that the relationship between America and China is an
    important relationship. This is a booming economy. This is a--China is a
    big presence in Asia. And it's very vital for the United States to have
    a relationship where I can sit down and say, ``Look, the trade policy
    must take into consideration your currency, must take into consideration
    our desire to sell you beef, must take into consideration intellectual
    property rights.'' And I can do that in such a way that he doesn't say,
    ``I'm tired of listening to you.'' It's an important relationship.
        We have--we're working together with North Korea. The leader in
    North Korea has--must abandon his nuclear
    weapons programs in a verifiable fashion. The Chinese understand that
    and have accepted that position. The fact that China and the United
    States can work on this issue as

    [[Page 1756]]

    equal partners is important for the stability of this region and the
    world.
        In other words, my point to you is, is that we've got a very vibrant
    relationship. I don't know what I sounded like during my discussion. As
    you know, I don't spend a lot of time analyzing myself and, obviously,
    you do. But----
        Q. We have a lot of time on our hands, Mr. President. [Laughter]
        The President. Yes, you do. [Laughter] But I am pleased that I am in
    a position to be able to explain to President Hu,
    as clearly as I can, my concerns and my appreciation for different
    aspects of our relationship.
        Q. A very quick followup, if I may.
        The President. Thank you all very much.

    Note: The President spoke at 6:12 p.m. at the St. Regis Hotel. In his
    remarks, he referred to Ying Dufeng, pastor, Gangwashi Protestant
    Church; President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao of China; the Dalai
    Lama Tenin Gyatso of Tibet; senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al
    Zarqawi; Ayman Al-Zawahiri, founder of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and
    senior Al Qaida associate; Luis Palau, founder, Luis Palau Association;
    and Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea.