    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2005, Book II)]
    [November 1, 2005]
    [Pages 1637-1644]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Foreign Print Journalists
    November 1, 2005

        The President. A couple of comments, and then I'll answer some
    questions, two apiece. Then I've got to go back to work.
        I've always felt that good foreign policy starts in your
    neighborhood. So this trip is a continuation of the United States
    working with different countries and me working with leaders to have a
    good relationship in the neighborhood. I remember the first Summit of
    the Americas I went to, which was in Canada. And in the opening
    comments, it struck me that it's an amazing neighborhood when there's
    only--every country is a democracy except for one.
        And so part of the reason, to me, and part of the reasons to have
    multilateral diplomacy, which this is, coupled with a lot of bilateral
    action, is to continue to foster democracy. Democracy is the best hope
    of all. Democracy is the form of government that can best respond to the
    demands of the people.
        I also strongly believe that we have a great opportunity to deal
    with job creation or poverty by putting a system in place that
    encourages economic growth and entrepreneurship. At the first Summit of
    the Americas we talked about the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas,
    which basically says that a trading hemisphere is one that is more
    likely to be able to address the needs of people, more likely to be able
    to address poverty, more likely to be able to help countries' balance
    sheets be firmed up.
        Since then, we've entered into bilateral trading agreements with
    Chile, multilateral trading agreements with--through CAFTA-DR, and we'll
    continue to pursue trading agreements bilaterally, multilaterally, as
    well as worldwide. And I'm looking forward to speaking to all my fellow
    friends and leaders down there about the Doha round, particularly
    President Lula. And we can talk
    about that, if you like, later on. But he's played a very constructive
    role and can continue to play a constructive role in getting the Doha
    round up and running. The United States has an obligation to make

    [[Page 1638]]

    sure that we put forth policies that encourage the process to move on,
    and we've done so, particularly on agriculture, which is--people who
    follow this very closely understand this is a very difficult issue for
    some. And we took a leadership position on that.
        But I'm looking forward to talking about that. And the reason why
    trade is so vital is because, particularly when addressing poverty,
    that, you know, grants and loans and--pale in comparison to the amount
    of good that can be done as commerce develops at all levels of
    government--at all levels of society, as a result of trade. The World
    Bank estimates that 300 million people will be eliminated from the
    poverty rolls as the result of a successful Doha round. And so that's
    going to be an important subject.
        And finally, good governance is an important subject. One of the
    most interesting policy initiatives that this administration has put
    forward is called the Millennium Challenge Account, which basically says
    that if you're a poor country, that we want to participate in helping
    you, so long as you're honest and invest in the people through health
    and education. It's a good governance initiative that goes hand in hand
    with job creation, eliminating poverty, and democracy.
        And so those are important subjects. So I'm looking forward to
    going. It's going to be a--I've never been to Argentina. I'm looking
    forward to going to Argentina. I hear it's a spectacular country. I've
    never been to Brazil. I'm looking forward to going to Brazil. And I've
    never been to Panama. So this will be a great experience for me to
    continue visiting these magnificent countries in our neighborhood.
        With that, we'll start. Jorge [Jorge Elias, La Nacion], como yo?

    Argentina-U.S. Relations/International Monetary Fund

        Q. Mr. President, in Argentina, you will have a bilateral meeting
    with President Kirchner.
        The President. Si.
        Q. What I want to know--sources of the government told me that they
    would ask you about more cooperation on support for Argentina, you know,
    in the IMF fund----
        The President. IMF.
        Q. Exactly.
        The President. Please don't tell me that the government leaks
    secrets about conversations to the----
        Q. Well, I have my sources in the government.
        The President. You do? Okay, well, I'm not going to ask you who they
    are, of course. [Laughter]
        Q. No, please.
        The President. Inside joke here, for my team. [Laughter] First of
    all, I was more than happy and my government was more than happy to help
    Argentina with the IMF crisis. We became involved with the government in
    trying to get the issue resolved. I think any objective observer would
    say that the U.S. participation was helpful. And we were more than
    pleased to do so. And by the way, our help was justified by the economic
    recovery of the country. It's been noteworthy for those who were
    skeptical about U.S. involvement in the IMF to see that the economy is
    growing robustly and that the government is stewards of the people's
    money and that Kirchner and his government
    did a good job of negotiating on behalf of the people of Argentina. So
    we've got a record of involvement.
        Secondly, since he has proven himself to
    be capable of performing, it seems like to me that the best policy ought
    to be for the Argentina--Argentine Government to deal directly with the
    IMF, without the U.S. having to be a middleman. And so that's what I'll
    tell--I guess I just told him what's going to happen in the private
    meeting--[laughter]--is that--no, we will, of course, listen to any
    request from a friend. But it seems like to me that President Kirchner
    and his economic team, his financial team, has laid the groundwork for

    [[Page 1639]]

    being plenty capable of dealing with the IMF directly.
        Paulo [Paulo Sotero, O Estado de San Paulo].

    Brazil-U.S. Relations/Trade

        Q. Mr. President, you have been very positive, sometimes even
    effusive about your relationship or your dialog with President Lula, and
    Brazil-U.S. relationship in general. But not much has come out of this,
    in terms of concrete initiatives. For instance, our main joint project,
    FTAA-ALCA has gone sort of backwards; it's stalled. So why is that so?
    Why is this dialog that superficially seems so good, doesn't produce
    more in terms of complete results?
        The President. Well, first of all, we do have a good relationship,
    and I think that started with a lot of the observers. I'm not suggesting
    it started with you, Paulo, but nevertheless, I think people had this
    vision about George W. one way, and Lula the other, and that there's no way that these two men
    could possibly find common ground. I think that's--at least I sense
    that, particularly coming out of some of the South American press.
        And yet our first meeting in the Oval Office was very warm and
    cordial. We shared the same deep concern to help alleviate hunger and
    poverty. We may have a different kind of political sense of things
    initially, but nevertheless, we share the same goals, and therefore have
    established a good, cordial, frank relationship.
        Secondly, trade between Brazil and the United States is growing.
    That's important. That's not a given. Secondly, Doha--you're right, the
    FTAA has stalled; I agree. On the other hand, at this point in time, the
    Doha round really trumps the FTAA as a priority, because the Doha round
    not only involves our neighborhood, it involves the whole world. And I
    spoke to President Lula yesterday,
    and I thanked him for the spirit of cooperation on the Doha round.
    Brazil is a very important player in Doha. It commands the respect of
    not only the United States and the EU but also other countries which may
    or may not follow its lead. But nevertheless, when Brazil speaks, people
    listen carefully.
        And one of the parts of the strategy has been to make sure that--
    and, obviously, the Brazilian agriculture is an important issue for
    President Lula, as it is for the
    Brazilian people. And he has expressed concern in the past that the
    United States would be unwilling to make a subsidy--a statement on
    subsidies that is profound, which I just did. He appreciated it. Both of
    us were somewhat disappointed in the EU response, because the whole
    theory has been the EU and the United States show good faith on
    agriculture, the rest of the world will show good faith on services and
    intellectual property rights and the other issues that are important to
    get Doha moving.
        But my only point is, there's been good cooperation. I mean, this--
    Doha hasn't finished yet, but it's important for the world, not only
    Brazil and America but for everybody else that Doha move forward, and
    there is a spirit of cooperation between Brazil and the United States to
    see if that can't get done. As a matter of fact, the previous
    ministerial on WTO--I remember speaking to President Lula about getting our trade ministers together. He
    agreed; I agreed, and so the process moved forward.
        Thirdly, in our own hemisphere, we have issues such as Haiti. Brazil
    has been the leader of the peacekeeping force, has done very good work
    through the U.N.--through the United Nations. The United States is
    supportive of that process. As you know, we've got a lot of equity in
    Haiti, as does Brazil. It's important for us to work closely together,
    and we will. And we're involved with the democracy movement there, as is
    Brazil. So in other words, there's a collaborative effort to promote
    democracy in the neighborhood. So whether it be trade, or potential of
    even further trade, or whether it be working together on the science and

    [[Page 1640]]

    technology, sharing of science and technology, or whether it be in
    promoting democracy in the neighborhood, the relationship is vital and
    important.
        Brazil is a big, big, important country in this world, and the
    United States recognizes that.
        Betty [Betty Brannan], La Prensa.

    Panama

        Q. Yes, Mr. President. Do you see parallels between the U.S.
    invasion of Panama and the invasion now of Iraq? And does that--has that
    motivated your choice to go to Panama at this time?
        The President. They're totally different circumstances, in that,
    obviously, one happened in our own neighborhood, one happened far away;
    one happened after fair warning, one happened after a long stay in the
    United Nations. Both actions, hopefully, will lead to democracies and a
    better world for the citizens in those countries in which they live.
        And, no, I'm not going to Panama for that reason. I'm going to
    Panama because Panama is a friend. I'm going to Panama because I want to
    see the canal and thank the government and the Panamanian people for
    being such good stewards of the canal, of being smart on security
    matters, recognizing the importance of the canal for trade, and for
    doing a fine job. And I want to see the canal firsthand, which I've
    never seen.
        I told the President when he was
    here, that I would consider coming. He's a good Texas A&M graduate, as
    you might know. We had a very cordial discussion, and I thought it would
    be a good thing to go there. I'm looking forward to it.
        Secondly, I want to talk about trade. Panama is not a part of CAFTA.
    It makes sense for Panama to be a part of the trading process that's
    going on. CAFTA is very important. It's important for countries south of
    the CAFTA region. It's important for countries north of the CAFTA
    region. It's important that these young democracies have a--you know,
    have the opportunity to sell products into our market, and we have an
    opportunity to sell products into their market on a level playing field,
    so as to create opportunities for people. Opening markets creates more
    markets. It could be markets for Argentina, markets for Brazil. The more
    available customers there are to businesses large and small, the more
    commerce will flow. And so CAFTA is important, and it makes sense for
    Panama to be considered to be a part of these trading agreements that
    are growing. And so I'm going for a lot of reasons. Thank you.
        Macarena [Macarena Vidal Liy, EFE News Services].

    U.S. Relations With Latin America

        Q. Like the song.
        The President. Si. Where do you live, Macarena?
        Q. I live here.
        The President. Oh, good. Where are you from?
        Q. From Spain, but I ran away from that song 15 years ago.
    [Laughter] It's following me all over the world.
        You have talked about the importance of having good relationships
    within the neighborhood, and yet there seem to be worrying signs for the
    U.S. and Latin America. The polls trend to growing anti-Americanism
    feeling in the region; the Secretary General in the OAS is not the man
    you backed at the beginning; either American summit that took place
    recently finished with a declaration that was not fully to the taste of
    the United States. Is the United States at risk of losing its influence
    in Latin America?
        The President. Well, one reason why we have summits such as this is
    to remind people that we want to be good neighbors and good friends. And
    we share a lot of values, common values together. I mean, I'm going to a
    country, Argentina, that's a proud democracy. I'm going to a country,
    Brazil, which is--which has had a peaceful election, which was a very
    important step.

    [[Page 1641]]

    I'm going to Panama, which wasn't always a democracy and now is a
    flourishing democracy.
        And it's a chance to say to people in the neighborhood, ``We share
    values, rule of law, justice, human rights, human dignity, the right for
    women to participate equally in society.'' These are very powerful
    messages. I will come and say to the people, the leadership, and whoever
    is listening down there, that our markets are open, so long as you open
    your markets. In other words, let's have open markets. The United States
    has got a strong economy, and it makes sense for countries to want to
    trade with us, and we want to trade with them.
        And so the message is one of jobs and democracy and honesty and open
    government. Look, I understand not everybody agrees with the decisions
    I've made, but that's not unique to Central or South America. Truth of
    the matter is, there's people who disagree with the decisions I've made
    all over the world. And I understand that, but that's what happens when
    you make decisions.
        And so I feel like relations are good. I think just so long as
    America never abandons her principles, that are universal in
    application, that this country will be fine. And listen, politicians
    come and go, but what doesn't change is the importance of standing on
    principle and working with our friends in Central and South America that
    agree with the same principles.
        As I repeat, I'm going to three countries that stand squarely on the
    principles. We may not agree on every issue. I understand that. And I
    don't expect people down there to--first of all, I don't think good
    relations necessarily mean somebody has to agree with America 100
    percent of the time. That's not the definition of good relations. Good
    relations is mutual respect and a desire to work together to solve
    common problems and, most importantly, though, adherence to common
    values. I keep saying that.
        Democracy is not an American value; it's a universal value. Human
    rights and human dignity is not uniquely American; it's important. It's
    important in Argentina as the history of your country has shown. It's
    very important in Brazil. It's been equally important in Panama, the
    notion of human rights and human dignity. There was a period of time in
    your country, just like there was a period of time in my country, where
    there wasn't a great adherence to human rights universally.
        And so, the concept of democracy, as working through these issues,
    sharing experiences, and working together to continue the march of
    decency and freedom, is a very important part of this agenda.
        Jorge, uno mas.

    Venezuela/Energy

        Q. Okay. Mr. President, President Chavez asked the Argentine
    Government to build a nuclear reactor for energy in Venezuela. Is that a
    danger for the region? Is that a danger for the United States?
        The President. Repeat that again. Asked the Argentine Government to
    build a nuclear reactor?
        Q. The Argentine Government to build a nuclear reactor for energy in
    Venezuela?
        The President. Well, it's--my view is, is that there are
    international safeguards that are very important that all nations adhere
    to, that there must be total transparency. I have proposed that we think
    of an international concept of sharing highly enriched uranium necessary
    for the running of a nuclear powerplant, for power, with countries, and
    that--collecting that material and disposing of it in a reasonable and a
    sound way. It's--I guess if I were a taxpayer in Venezuela, I would
    wonder about the energy supply that Venezuela has.
        But maybe it makes sense; I haven't really studied the proposal. And
    I look forward to--hope President Kirchner
    shares with me the concept, the notion, the idea.
        Q. You will talk with him about this?

    [[Page 1642]]

        The President. If he wants to talk about
    it, I'd be curious to know. It's the first I've heard of it, and it's an
    interesting question.

    President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva of Brazil

        Q. Mr. President, about relations, the building of democracy in our
    hemisphere, and for ideological--apart to the ideological reasons, apart
    for reasons relating to Brazil's own interest, President Lula has very
    close, friendly relationships with leaders that are considered enemies
    of the United States--Fidel Castro, Chavez, Evo Morales in Bolivia, that
    may become a President. But the U.S., and you reiterated that, continues
    to view Brazil as spark of the construction of democracy in our
    hemisphere. Could you explain to us how this dynamic works between you
    and President Lula, of having those different partners?
        The President. Well, first of all, it's certainly not the role of
    the United States, nor me, to say to President Lula, ``Here's your list
    of friends. You can't talk to somebody.'' He's the duly elected leader
    of a great country, and he can make decisions to discuss matters with
    whomever he chooses. And frankly, it may make sense, in his position as
    a giant country in South America to have relations with every leader on
    the--in South America or the Caribbean.
        And so I've never really discussed with him who all his friends are.
    I never had that discussion. On the other hand, I do think it's useful
    at times if I've got concerns about matters in the hemisphere, to be
    able to pick up the phone to President Lula and say, ``I've got a
    concern with so-and-so. I've got a concern about this. Would you mind
    looking into that,'' or, ``Is there a chance we can work together to
    resolve a problem?''
        Q. ----would have done it.
        The President. I've talked in general about my concerns about people
    eroding democratic institutions--I will never reveal a private
    conversation with another leader--but I have. And frankly, it's--he's in
    a unique position, let's put it that way, and I respect that. And I
    think it's important that he be in a position of influence with a lot of
    countries in the hemisphere to promote the common values that we agree
    in.
        No, I've got respect for President Lula. He's an interesting man.
    Obviously, we've come from different backgrounds and different
    perspectives, obviously different countries. And yet, he's--again I
    repeat to you my first--I'm kind of getting way off base here, but just
    to share some color. One of my most important initiatives is this Faith-
    Based and Community-Based Initiative here in the United States. I
    believe that oftentimes government is limited in its capacity to help
    save lives. And I know that there are grassroots programs that are more
    likely to be able to go into some of the most hopeless neighborhoods and
    to corners of despair and be able to help save lives by, first of all,
    being motivated by love, and it's sometimes helpful to have people
    motivated by love have access to money in order to be able to solve
    problems. And I felt like we ought to open up government funding to
    competitive bidding by faith-based organizations.
        And I shared this with President Lula. And the reason--I shared this
    vision and this concept as a way to deal with some of society's
    intractable problems. And he was sharing with me his vision about
    dealing with his hunger initiative, for example. And so I was impressed
    by a person who is willing to take on some of these tough issues in
    order to make his respective country a better place, as I'm trying to do
    in mine.
        Yes, Betty.

    Panama-U.S. Relations

        Q. My question is about security, Mr. President, in the region.
    Panama is a strategic location, which has been both a strength and a
    vulnerability. And whenever Panamanians hear talk about canal security

    [[Page 1643]]

    and frontier--border security with Colombia, there is the suspicion that
    perhaps the United States would like to reestablish a military presence
    on the isthmus, or at least recreate a military out of the police force
    we have, because we eliminated the army after the fall of the
    dictatorship. Could you address those concerns, please?
        The President. We have no plans for a base, and sovereign
    governments are just that, they're sovereign. And if they say, ``We'd
    like to work on some kind of security arrangement,'' that's not the case
    with Panama right now, but if that were the case, we'd be openminded.
    But we have no specific plans at all for a base. And let me ask my
    National Security Adviser to make sure I
    don't get out on a limb that you would then immediately saw off.
    [Laughter]
        Q. Not I.
        The President. Good. But, no, I mean, one reason why you have good,
    strong diplomatic relations is that you're able just to share thoughts
    and talk about issues that matter. But no, there's no plans for that.
        Q. Or for some kind of military presence that is less than a base,
    or forward operating location or something?
        The President. I'm not aware of that, if that's the case. I presume
    the President, if he is interested in
    discussing that with me, like a forward operating base, would be--will
    bring it up to me. Let me just say, it hasn't made it to the Oval Office
    yet, and so if there's any rumors to that effect, I would chalk them up
    as rumors.
        Q. Thank you.
        The President. But I'm confident that if this is on his mind,
    he'll bring it up. I don't recall he
    brought it up the last time he was in the Oval Office. Again, violating
    the principle of telling private conversations to journalists.
        Macarena.

    U.S. Relations With Latin America

        Q. I promise I won't dance.
        The President. You can dance here. You'd be the first person to
    dance on the Roosevelt table since I've been the President.
        Q. I'm not supposed to be the star. [Laughter]
        The President. Pretty good sense of humor there, Macarena. Very
    good.
        Q. Thanks. What do you think about the prospective of--in the
    Bolivian election, the victory of an overtly leftist candidate, Evo
    Morales, of his peasant movement? And in that case, are you worried
    about a possible ``axis of evil'' in Latin America--Venezuela and
    Bolivia?
        The President. Macarena, one thing is, is that I've learned not to
    make political forecasts and prognostications, whether it be here at
    home or elsewhere. The thing that we're interested in is fair elections,
    free and fair elections where people have the chance to express
    themselves at the ballot box. And that's what democracy is all about--
    free from foreign influence, free from corruption, open elections, so
    that people can feel free and comfortable to vote. And that's what we
    look at. We don't--I don't speak out trying to interfere in the local
    process.
        And so, we will see how the people vote. With our Embassy, of
    course, we'll be there involved with--at least to the extent asked to be
    involved, with making sure the elections are free and fair. And that's
    all you can ask. And then the people will decide who they want, and
    that's what democracy does. Democracy--and that's what, by the way,
    differentiates democracy from other forms of government. Sometimes
    you've had different forms of government in our own hemisphere and
    around the world, where the people don't decide but an elite decides, a
    handful of people gets to decide the fate of the people. And that,
    throughout history, has led to resentment and hatreds and turmoil and
    conflict.
        And that's why this trip is important, because it will give us a
    chance to, again,

    [[Page 1644]]

    speak to these universal values and universal truths. And one of the
    universal truths is, democracies lead to peace. Democracies don't fight
    each other. Democracies are capable of having different types of leaders
    be able to work in concert to solve common problems. Democracies respond
    to--and by responding to the will of the people, democracy tends to be
    able to more likely lift up people, give people a chance to succeed. I
    strongly believe that. And I believe that these concepts are applicable
    to all peoples.
        I believe freedom is universal. It's not contained within one
    country or one religion or one type of person. There's a universality to
    freedom. I believe mothers around the world desire their children to
    grow up in freedom. It doesn't matter whether you're Muslim, Christian,
    Jew, Hindu. That's what I believe. And I believe if you speak Spanish or
    English--it doesn't matter--you want to be free--or Portuguese.
        And so these are valuable lessons that we should have--that we must
    learn around the world. And to the extent that people adhere to those
    principles, the United States of America says, the people matter. On the
    other hand, if we think that people are disrupting the normal course of
    democracy, unwinding institutions such as the free press, not allowing
    people to worship freely, we'll speak up. We'll speak up, as I hope
    others do as well.
        As I say, there's universality to freedom that's important, and
    those of us who are fortunate enough to live in free and democratic
    societies should work to encourage others to make sure they hold those
    institutions dear. There are just some institutions that are vital for a
    society to be free and open and transparent, for the good of the people,
    for the good of the people.
        Listen, thanks for coming by. Looking forward to the trip.

    Note: The interview was taped at 1:18 p.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House. In his remarks, the President referred to President Nestor
    Kirchner of Argentina; and President Martin Torrijos Espino of Panama.
    Journalists referred to Secretary General Jose Miguel Insulza of the
    Organization of the American States; President Hugo Chavez Frias of
    Venezuela; President Fidel Castro Ruz of Cuba; and Evo Morales,
    Presidential candidate in Bolivia. The transcript was released by the
    Office of the Press Secretary on November 2. The Office of the Press
    Secretary also released a Spanish language transcript of this interview.
    A tape was not available for verification of the content of this
    interview.