    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2005, Book I)]
    [March 21, 2005]
    [Pages 492-500]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Discussion on Strengthening Social Security in Denver,
    Colorado
    March 21, 2005

        The President. Thanks for coming. Thanks for the warm welcome.
    Thanks for greeting me and Senator McCain. He's
    up here to claim some water, he said. [Laughter]
        Audience members. Oo-o-oh!
        The President. Never mind. Just an inside joke that didn't work.
    [Laughter] But we appreciate you coming today. We're going to have a
    serious dialog on Social Security. It's an issue that requires a lot of
    dialog and a lot of discussion. And so I want to thank our panelists for
    joining us. I want to thank you all for your interest in this subject.
        Before I begin, I do want to thank Governor Bill Owens and Frances for joining us
    today. Good to see you all. Congressman Bob Beauprez is with us. Good to see you, Congressman. Thank you, sir.
    Congressman Joel Hefley from down the road is
    with us. Lieutenant Governor Jane Norton is
    with us. Thanks for coming. The attorney general of the great State of
    Colorado is with us; thanks for coming, General Suthers. Mark Hillman is with us; Joe
    Stengel is with us; a lot of people are with us.
    We appreciate you being here.
        I hope you've been as impressed by the spread of freedom as I've
    been. We believe in America that freedom is not America's gift to the
    world, but it's the Almighty's gift to every person in the world. That's
    what we believe. And we shouldn't be surprised. I know some of us were
    surprised, but we shouldn't be surprised when people are willing to take
    risk for freedom. If you believe that freedom is etched in every
    person's soul, then you understand why, in Afghanistan, for example,
    millions of people, after having been freed from the Taliban, were
    willing to go to the polls, were willing to say, ``We're free, and we
    want to exercise our right.''
        The same thing happened in Ukraine. The same thing happened in the
    Palestinian Territories when they voted for President Abbas. I believe he's committed to democracy.
    I believe the march of freedom will extend to the Palestinian
    Territories so that our friend Israel will have a partner in peace, a
    true democracy in the Palestinian country.
        John recently went to Iraq. He was telling
    me what amazing place Iraq now is. How many times you been there? Two or
    three times--twice. Things have changed, and things changed not because,
    necessarily, our decisions; things changed because of courageous Iraqis
    that were willing to go to the polls in the face of incredible threat,
    but they wouldn't be denied because people do want to be free.
        And it's important for the youngsters here to understand that the
    march of freedom will yield peace, the peace we want. Free societies are
    peaceful societies; free societies are hopeful societies; free societies
    are the best way to defeat the dark vision of the terrorists. And so for
    the next 4 years, I look forward to working with

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    friends and allies to continue the march of freedom for the sake of
    peace.
        I appreciate the fact that the unemployment rate here in Colorado is
    4.9 percent. The environment--entrepreneurial environment here is
    strong, and that is good. We've got to keep policies in place to make
    sure our economy grows. I am concerned, I know you're concerned, about
    the price of gasoline. You're beginning to see the fact that we haven't
    had an energy policy in the United States at the pump. I know we need to
    encourage conservation. I know we need to find alternative sources of
    energy. I hope someday we can use biodiesel to make us less dependent on
    foreign sources of energy. I know we need to use our technological
    capacities not only to protect the environment but to make us less
    dependent on foreign sources of energy. I know we need to modernize our
    electricity grid.
        In other words, Congress needs to stop debating the energy bill. I
    know what we don't need--with the price of energy the way it is, I know
    we don't need tax breaks for oil companies. What we need is an energy
    plan in order to make sure this economy continues to grow. Congress
    needs to pass the bill.
        But today we're going to talk about Social Security. It's an issue
    that some are saying, ``Why would you want to talk about Social
    Security? It's a tough political issue.'' I believe, John believes, people here believe that now is the time to
    confront a problem, not to pass it on to future Presidents and future
    Congresses. I mean, if you see a problem, I believe it is incumbent upon
    a leader to confront that problem.
        And let me tell you what I think the problem is. The problem is
    Social Security has changed since the day that Franklin Roosevelt first
    thought of it. It has changed because a lot of baby boomers like me are
    getting ready to retire, and we're living longer, and we've been
    promised more benefits, but fewer people are paying into the system.
    We're having less kids.
        In 1950, 16 workers were paying for every beneficiary. Today, 3.3
    workers are paying for every beneficiary. When younger people start
    getting ready to retire, it's going to be two workers paying for every
    beneficiary--fewer people paying for more baby boomers like me, who are
    living longer and have been promised greater benefits. What's changed is
    the math. What hasn't changed is the importance of having a good
    retirement system.
        Franklin Roosevelt ought to be applauded for putting a safety net in
    place for our seniors. This President and the Congress--many in the
    Congress understand that safety net has got a hole in it. And we're here
    to talk about how to mend the hole. You see, when you see a problem, I
    think it's necessary to confront the problem. Because there's fewer
    workers paying into the system, the Social Security system will go into
    the red in 2018. That means more money will be going out than coming in.
        Now, you probably think--some of you may think there's what they
    call a Social Security trust: The Government collects the money for you;
    we hold it for you; and when you retire, we pay it to you. But that's
    not how it works. You pay your payroll tax; we pay for the people who
    have retired; and if there's any money left over, we spend it on
    Government. That's how it works. And what's left is an empty IOU, a
    piece of paper. Because it's a pay-as-you-go system, when more retirees
    start retiring, who are living longer, getting paid more, more money
    starts going out than coming in. In 2027, that deficit will be $200
    billion, and growing greater every year. From 2018 to 2042, the deficits
    increase every year, the amount of money going out relative to the money
    coming in. And that's the problem.
        We're fine. I'm going to say it once; I'm going to say it as many
    times as I can: Seniors here in this audience and listening

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    on TV must understand, nothing changes; you're going to get your check.
    When you hear us talking about Social Security, you must understand that
    nothing will change for you. For those of us born prior to 1950, the
    system will not change. The fundamental question is, how--what are we
    going to do about the next generation coming up? Are we going to saddle
    them with a huge deficit in Social Security?
        Now, that's why I went to the Congress during the State of the Union
    and said, ``We've got a problem.'' I spent a lot of time describing the
    problem, but I also said I'm willing to listen to any solution. I'm
    willing to say, ``You've got an idea, bring it forward.'' As a matter of
    fact, I think I might have been the best President--first President ever
    to say, ``Here are some ideas for you.'' First President--[laughter]--
    no, no, no, forget the ``best'' part. [Laughter] First President. Forget
    it. Just because you've got a cowboy hat doesn't mean you can stand up
    and yell. [Laughter] Thank you.
        I said, ``Put all ideas on the table.'' It doesn't matter if it's a
    Democrat idea, Republican idea. I'm interested in solving the problem,
    and I'm interested in solving it permanently. We don't need a temporary
    fix.
        Earlier today in Arizona we were talking about the fact that in
    1983, President Reagan and Tip O'Neill and Bob Dole and others stood up and said, ``There is a problem. Let's
    come together.'' And the spirit was an important spirit. But they said
    it was a 75-year fix at the time. And because the math has changed--baby
    boomers like me getting ready to retire, living longer, getting bigger
    benefits--because that changed, we're now talking about the issue 22
    years later. It wasn't 75 years; it's essentially less than 75 years.
        So you may hear some of them say, ``Well, we've got a 75-year fix
    for you.'' In my judgment, that's not good enough. Now is the time to
    come together to fix this problem for generations to come, permanently.
        I've got an idea that I think ought to be considered. You've heard a
    lot about it. It's called personal savings accounts. It wasn't my idea.
    As a matter of fact, this is an idea that's a part of 401(k)s, for
    example. You get to set aside some of your own money; you manage it in a
    conservative mix of bonds and stocks. It wasn't my idea. As a matter of
    fact, the Federal Government thought of this a long time before I did,
    and that is Federal workers ought to be allowed to take some of their
    own money and set it aside in a Federal Thrift Savings Plan where you
    can invest it in a series of bonds and stocks.
        And the reason why people thought that was a good idea is because
    they understand that you can get a better rate of return on a
    conservative mix of bonds and stocks than you can if your money is held
    by the Federal Government. And that rate of return is important for the
    individual worker, because over time, that grows. It grows; it
    compounds. It's called the compounding effect of interest.
        Now, let me give you an example. If you were to allow a worker that
    made $35,000 over his or her lifetime to take a third of their payroll
    taxes and put it in a personal savings account and invest it in a
    conservative mix of bonds and stocks, by the time that person retired,
    that money would have grown to be a quarter of a million dollars. In
    other words, that's how interest grows. That's how money compounds over
    time.
        Now, when it comes time to fixing the Social Security system, you
    got to understand the Government can't keep the promises it made to
    young workers. And so one way to allow young workers to get a better
    deal from a permanent fix in the Social Security system is to let them
    take some of their own money and watch their own money grow, to be a
    part of a retirement system. In other words, you're going to get a check
    from the Social Security system.

    [[Page 495]]

    They can't tell you how much yet. But you know you can get a check plus
    your own asset base if you allow people to have a personal savings
    account.
        Secondly, I think it's important for a society to encourage
    ownership. I love the idea that more people are owning a home than ever
    before in our society today. I like it when I hear somebody say, ``I own
    my own business.'' The entrepreneurial spirit is strong in Colorado. We
    got more people owning their own business. I think it makes sense to
    encourage people to manage their own asset base through the Social
    Security account. I like the idea of people opening up their quarterly
    statement and saying, ``Well, here's how--here's my--here's what my
    worth is.'' Watching something grow--certainly make people more
    interested in the fiscal decisions of the Federal Government when they
    watch their own assets.
        I like the idea of saying that you can have your own asset and you
    can pass it on to whomever you want. I don't think the system is fair
    for a couple who are working all their lives, and the husband dies
    early, and the wife has got either survivor benefits or her own Social
    Security benefits, whichever is higher, but not both. Think about that
    kind of system. Both of them work their life--we met a woman today whose
    husband died at 55. He had worked 30 years of his life, put money in the
    Social Security system. Upon his death, she got no benefits because she
    wasn't 62. They did pay $255 of burial benefits. He worked all his life;
    the wife gets $255 out of it. She retires at 62, gets a bigger check
    than the survivor benefits. And so the husband's contributions in the
    Social Security have just gone away.
        That's not a fair system. A fair system said that this younger
    worker, at the time when he was younger, should be allowed, upon his
    choice--this is a voluntary program, by the way; the Government is not
    making you set aside money; you can do it if you want--should be allowed
    to set aside some of his money, in this case. It grows. Upon death, the
    money goes to the wife. That's fair. It's an asset.
        A couple of points I want to make, and then we're going to turn to
    the panel. Laura told me, ``Don't talk too
    much.'' [Laughter] She's obviously failed. By the way, she's doing
    great. She's a fabulous woman.
        People say, ``What are these--what does this mean, investing?''
    Well, you can't put it in the lottery. In other words, there's a
    prescribed investment portfolio, just like the Federal employees do.
    There's a conservative mix that will get you a better rate of return
    than what your money is getting at the--in the Federal Government.
        Secondly, when you retire, you can't pull all your money out. In
    other words, it's there to help you retire. The capital stays in place,
    and you live off the interest plus whatever the Social Security system
    can afford.
        But thirdly, you can leave it to whomever you want, and your heir
    can liquidate your personal account. That would help the widow, for
    example, or a child getting ready to go to college, if the mom or dad
    dies. In other words, this is a way to not only encourage ownership, but
    it's a way to encourage asset formation for the families of America. We
    want more people--more people from all walks of life being able to say,
    ``This is my asset, and I choose to leave it to my son or daughter.''
        Lee Abdnor is with us. Every panel has got
    to have an expert. In this case, we've got a lot of experts--except for
    me and McCain--[laughter]--the best Senator.
    [Laughter] Lee, tell us what you do.
        Leanne Abdnor. Thank you, Mr. President.
    My name is Lee Abdnor, as you said, and I'm from Boulder, Colorado.
        The President. I know some people from Boulder.

    [At this point, Mrs. Abdnor, former member, President's Commission to
    Strengthen Social Security, made brief remarks.]

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        The President. One of the interesting things, Lee--I thought it was interesting to watch this
    Commission work. Unlike some parts of Washington, this Commission
    actually said, ``We're not here to promote a political party; we're here
    to help solve a major problem.'' And it's that spirit--Senator Moynihan
    did a fabulous job, by the way, of leading this Commission--God rest his
    soul. But he said, ``Look, we're not here to promote any individual
    person or candidate or party; we're here to do our duty as Americans.''
    It is the spirit of this Commission--in other words, people can sit at
    the table saying, ``I want to hear your idea; bring forth your idea.
    Every idea ought to be considered.'' It's that spirit that now needs to
    take hold in Congress. The American people don't want to see partisan
    bickering on this issue. They want to see people come together and solve
    it once and for all. And I want to thank you, Lee, for being here.
        Somebody who understands that--somebody who understands the spirit
    of working together is John McCain, the Senator
    from Arizona. Thanks for coming, Senator.
        Senator John McCain. Thank you, Mr.
    President. Thank you all for coming today. It's a pleasure to be here to
    visit our water. And I thank you for the opportunity. [Laughter]
    Remember, we have so little water in Arizona, the trees chase the dogs,
    so please send as much as you can. [Laughter] I'm very happy to be with
    all of you today. Let me just if I could----
        The President. Trying to get back?
        Senator McCain. Pretty good, huh? Not bad.
        The President. It's the tree and the dog thing that got us. We're
    trying--[laughter].
        Senator McCain. I have more. [Laughter]

    [Senator McCain made further remarks.]

        The President. Good job, John. Thanks.
        Ready, Norm? All right. Norm Mossoni--
    glad you're here, Norm. Where do you live?
        Norman Mossoni. I live in Louisville,
    Colorado. I was born in--I was born and raised there, and I'm still
    there.
        The President. Really? You were born in Louisville how many years
    ago, if I might ask?
        Mr. Mossoni. Well, not many, back in
    1919, somewhere.
        The President. Nineteen hundred and nineteen--that's a long time
    ago. [Laughter] Do you get a Social Security check? You qualify.
    [Laughter]
        Mr. Mossoni. Absolutely. And actually,
    Mr. President, it is a kind of a significant part of my retirement
    program, along with the other things that I was fortunate enough to be
    aware of and prepare for, so that it is not a full pension; it's a
    cushion. You've got to have something else.
        The President. Right. But you're counting on it?
        Mr. Mossoni. Absolutely.
        The President. There's a lot of people like Norm counting on their
    check. And I understand that; and John
    understands that; Members of Congress understand that. Social Security
    is important for a lot of people, and as this debate goes on, I want the
    people who depend upon Social Security to understand, you're going to
    get your check. Is that--I hope you understand that, Norm.
        Mr. Mossoni. Oh, I absolutely understand
    it. [Laughter]
        The President. Because if you didn't understand it, then I'm not
    making myself clear. [Laughter] And I'm going to keep making myself
    clear until people--the seniors of this country can relax about this
    debate.
        Keep going. You're on a roll. [Laughter]

    [Mr. Mossoni made further remarks.]

        The President. He's concerned about his grandchildren enough that he
    invited his granddaughter, Joleen. This is a
    generational issue, folks. The generation of Norm and my generation, you won't have anything to worry
    about. But there's a lot

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    of grandparents who, once they understand that, start saying to the
    Congress and the President, ``How are you going to protect my
    granddaughter? What are you going to do about my children? What are you
    going to do about my grandchildren?'' And that's what this issue--this
    is a generational issue. This is an issue that recognizes the importance
    of--this generation understands the importance of Social Security. But
    we also understand we better do something about it for the generation
    coming up.
        Joleen, thanks for coming. Twenty-one
    years old, sitting right here with the President and the
    Senator, right on the stage.
        Joleen Mossoni. Thank you, sir.
        The President. You are a student, where?
        Ms. Mossoni. I'm a student at the University of Colorado, a junior
    studying political science.
        The President. Good. Yes, well, this is a little political science
    exercise right now. This is called taking the message to the people--
    [laughter]--because I believe the people will influence the outcome of
    this debate.
        Here's your chance to influence the outcome of the debate.

    [Ms. Mossoni made further remarks.]

        The President. Right. Well-spoken. Somebody told me about a survey
    once that said 20-year-old Americans believe they're more likely to see
    a UFO than get a check. [Laughter] It's an interesting dynamic, isn't
    it? [Laughter] Think about the political dynamic there. Once seniors
    realize nothing is going to change for them, 20-, 30-, 40-year-old
    Americans are going to have a enormous say in this debate. You need to
    say loud and clear, ``We got a problem. Are you--do you have the
    political will to fix it for me?''
        And I appreciate the idea. I tell you another interesting thing. I
    know when McCain and I were coming up, we
    weren't talking about personal accounts or investing our own money. But
    there is an interesting culture in America. There's a 401(k) culture.
    There's a group people who are now used to managing their own money.
    There's a lot of personal involvement in the marketplace from people of
    all walks in life.
        We're not trying to invent something new. We're trying to take what
    has become a reality and extend it to a Government program. Seems like
    to me that 401(k)s are working. A lot of people like them. A lot of
    people are comfortable with them. Why don't we take that same concept
    about giving workers the option of taking some of their own money and
    investing in the market so, as John said, they can get a better rate on
    their own money. It's not the Government's money to begin with.
        So thanks, I appreciate that very much.
        Speaking about 401(k)s or 403(b)s, which is the 401(k) equivalent
    for the nonprofits--isn't that right, Tricia?
        Thanks for coming.
        Patricia Manley. Thank you.
        The President. Tell everybody what happened 3 weeks ago.
        Mrs. Manley. My husband, Chris, and I
    just had our first daughter, Morgan.
        The President. Very good, yes.
        Mrs. Manley. She's 3 weeks today.
        The President. She's here.
        Mrs. Manley. She is here, waiting to
    meet you.
        The President. Good, looking forward to seeing Morgan. Oh, there's Morgan. Look at her. Oh, yes. Tell Morgan
    not to worry, reform is on the way. [Laughter]
        Go ahead, Trish.

    [Mrs. Manley, web strategy manager, National Jewish Medical and Research
    Center, Denver, CO, made further remarks.]

        The President. Yes, that's an interesting thought. People need to
    listen--people in Congress need to listen. I know a lot of young
    Americans aren't supposed to be paying attention to politics, they say;
    but they are. They're beginning to understand that this is going to be a
    problem for generations to come unless we do something.

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        Now, are you--a 403(b), which is--which you invest in--some are
    probably worried about, ``Do I have the capacity to invest?'' There's
    this concept of investor class in America, which means only a certain
    person is capable, kind of an interesting point of view. I, frankly,
    disagree with that. I totally reject that point of view. But in order to
    assure people--I mean, when you start looking at investment options, did
    you find it to be rocket science or something difficult?
        Mrs. Manley. No, not at all. And, you
    know, same thing as with what you're talking about. We have choices. You
    can't just go out and dump all your money in the hottest tech stock.
    You've got a certain number of limited choices that it's not going to
    disappear tomorrow.
        The President. Yes. And you get quarterly statements?
        Mrs. Manley. Absolutely.
        The President. See, I think it's--I think it would be a wonderful
    way to encourage people to pay attention to their Government, is to open
    your quarterly statement and say, ``Look at this; look at my assets.
    They don't seem to be going up so much; maybe we ought to change
    Presidents or something, you know''--[laughter]--or Senators, whatever
    the case may be. [Laughter] Too late, in my case, but nevertheless.
    [Laughter]
        You're on a roll. You're doing great.
        Mrs. Manley. At the end of the day, one
    of the things that's attractive about the personal accounts is that even
    though we've been paying into the system and right now we may not see
    anything, under those accounts, we would at least get something back
    from what we've put in. And the other thing that I really like is that
    at the end of the day, there would be something for us to leave to
    Morgan.
        The President. There you go. Thanks. Great job. Thanks for coming,
    Tricia. Congratulations. Looking forward to
    seeing Morgan. This will be the first time a
    President has kissed her. [Laughter] Looking forward to it. I don't know
    if she is or not, but I am. [Laughter]
        Our final panelist is Randy Reed, one of
    the baby boomers. Randy and I--I'm 58; you're 56.
        Randolph Reed. Yes, Mr. President.
        The President. I'm on the leading edge of the baby boomers. As a
    matter of fact, interestingly enough, my retirement age comes in 2008.
    [Laughter] Isn't that convenient? [Laughter] Back to the trees and the
    dogs, right? [Laughter]
        What do you do, Randy?
        Mr. Reed. Mr. President, I have a custom
    picture frame store in Greenwood Village, Colorado.
        The President. Your own business?
        Mr. Reed. Yes, sir. I own my own business
    with my wife.
        The President. Classic. She's the boss and you're the----
        Mr. Reed. I just follow instructions.
        The President. That's good. [Laughter] Started your own business,
    owning your own business--classic American story, isn't it. Making a
    living?
        Mr. Reed. Yes, sir.
        The President. That's good. Why are you concerned, besides--you were
    born before 1950.
        Mr. Reed. I was born--yes, Mr. President,
    I was born before 1950.
        The President. You're in good shape. Don't worry about it.

    [Mr. Reed made further remarks.]

        The President. You know, I hear from a lot of small businesses, and
    they obviously take great comfort in knowing that at least we're
    addressing the issue, trying to solve the problem. Can you imagine being
    a small business, like Randy's, who puts a lot
    of money into the payroll tax--pays a lot of payroll tax, the company
    portion of payroll taxes, thinking that, ``Well, maybe there won't be a
    system for the people that I'm contributing toward.'' And so one

    [[Page 499]]

    of the things that will help the entrepreneurial spirit, at least help
    the small businesses to know, that we've got the courage to come
    together to reform the system so that your contributions will work.
    They'll do what they're intended to do. And part of the payroll tax--the
    personal accounts coming out of the payroll tax will obviously be a part
    of what he's contributing to a worker's--half of the worker's payroll
    tax.
        And so this is a big issue for small businesses, folks. I mean, this
    is a very important part of making sure that the small-business sector
    remains strong, that we've got to solve this problem now.
        You got anything else to add? Any wisdom? You want to sell a product
    or two? You got a chance here. [Laughter]
        Mr. Reed. Yes. What I would like to say,
    though, Mr. President, is that I'm not looking for a bandaid effect to
    this. I'd like to see a permanent fix for the Social Security
    Administration.
        The President. Yes, I appreciate you saying that. I think coming to
    the table--when we get people to the table, we're talking permanent.
        I think that's the spirit of the Congress, don't you, John?
        Senator McCain. Yes, sir.
        The President. Yes. Listen, I hope you've enjoyed this as much as I
    have. I want to tell you something. You can influence the outcome of
    this debate; people here in the audience and people watching on TV can
    decide whether or not Congress hears the call--hears the call that
    Senator McCain issued, hears the call that I've
    issued, hears the call that panelists have issued, which is, ``Look,
    we're concerned. We have a problem. Show us that you're capable of
    coming together to solve the problem.''
        My strategy is simple. I'm going to continue to travel this country
    making it abundantly clear, the nature of the problem, assuring seniors
    that they have nothing to worry about, because I understand once that
    sinks in, once people know we have a problem and seniors have nothing to
    worry about, the question from the people will--going to be, ``What are
    you going to do to fix it?'' And I'm more than willing to come to the
    table and listen to ideas.
        Today we discussed some interesting ideas that will help make the
    Social Security system work better for the individual or, as
    John said, will help make the system connect to
    a young generation.
        I hope--I'm confident that eventually the will will be there to get
    something done. I appreciate so much, Senator,
    your willingness to join in this issue. I love the spirit of somebody
    saying, ``We're not going to pass this on. Now is the time to confront
    the problem. Now is the time to do our duty as elected officials.''
        Thank you for your interest in the subject. May God bless you all,
    and may God continue to bless our country.

    Note: The President spoke at 4:44 p.m. at the Wings Over the Rockies Air
    and Space Museum. In his remarks, he referred to Gov. Bill Owens of
    Colorado and his wife, Frances; Lt. Gov. Jane Norton and State Attorney
    General John W. Suthers of Colorado; Mark Hillman, minority leader,
    Colorado State Senate; Joe Stengel, minority leader, Colorado State
    House of Representatives; President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the
    Palestinian Authority; and former Senator Bob Dole. The Office of the
    Press Secretary also released a Spanish language transcript of these
    remarks.

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