    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2005, Book I)]
    [March 30, 2005]
    [Pages 529-540]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Discussion on Strengthening Social Security in Cedar Rapids
    March 30, 2005

        The President. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for coming. I want to thank our panelists
    here. We're about to discuss Social Security. Before we do, I've got
    some things I want to say.
        First, I want to thank the good folks here at Kirkwood Community
    College for letting us come by. It's a fantastic facility you got here.
    I want to thank Mick and Steve and all the faculty here. I believe the community
    college system is an important part of making sure that our economy
    continues to grow. And the reason why is, one of the bottlenecks for
    economic growth is to whether or not we've got a workforce that is
    trained for the jobs of the 21st century. There is no better place to
    train people for the jobs of the 21st century than the community college
    system in America. And so I want to thank you for letting us come by.
        I want to thank Chuck Grassley. He
    and I just came from the Spring House. Yes, it was nice. We had a cup of
    coffee. I hope you paid, Senator. [Laughter] Well, I forgot your
    reputation. [Laughter] I guess I had to pick up the check, probably.
    [Laughter] But I'm proud of the Senator's leadership on the Finance
    Committee. This will be the committee in the United States Senate that
    will start a piece of legislation that will modernize Social Security.
    He's committed, as am I, to taking on this big issue. And as I told them
    at the Spring House, he's stubborn. I'm going to be stubborn on the
    issue, and we're going to keep working this until we get something done.
    We need to. Now is the time to address tough problems, before it becomes
    acute for younger generations of Americans. Thank you for understanding
    that, Chuck. Appreciate you coming.

        I want to thank Congressman Jim Leach,
    the Congressman from this district. I'm looking forward to--Leach is
    flying back with me. I'm always a better person after having sat down to
    listen to his wisdom.

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    [Laughter] He's a good, strong guy, and I'm proud that you're here.
        As well as Jim Nussle, chairman of the
    Budget Committee for the House of Representatives. Thank you for coming,
    Jim. I appreciate working with Chairman Nussle. He's done a very good
    job on the budget. Now this is the year in which we're going to set
    priorities again--we did it last time; we're going to do it this time--
    set clear priorities. And we're not going to fund programs that don't
    work. It seems like to make a lot of sense to me that we're wise about
    how we spend your money. And there's no better partner in being wise
    about how we spend the people's money than Jim Nussle. I'm proud of your
    leadership and proud to call you friend.
        And your parents are here. Yes, you brought mom--mom and dad--good,
    yes. You still telling him what to do?
    [Laughter] So is my mother. [Laughter] The
    difference is, Nussle is listening. [Laughter]
        I want to say something about Senator Chuck Larson. I appreciate you being here, Chuck. I want to thank
    you for your service to our country. State Auditor Dave Vaudt is with us. Mr. Auditor, thanks for coming. Mr.
    Mayor, thank you for coming. I appreciate Paul
    Pate joining us. I want to thank all the State and local officials for
    coming. Particularly, I want to thank you all for taking time out of
    your busy lives to become educated on a very important subject.
        Before I do get there, I do want to say something about Al Smith.
    Al--I don't know if you know Al Smith. He's
    been involved with the Cedar Rapids Kernels Baseball Club. He organizes
    a program for children with special needs around baseball. He's also
    been a mentor. He told me that over his last, I think he said 40 years--
    didn't you say, Al? I think it's 40--you dealt with a million children.
    I want you to stand up. The reason why I wanted to introduce Al, he is a
    soldier in the army of compassion. He's a soul who understands that you
    can make a difference in a person's life, and I want to thank you for
    being here. Appreciate your service.
        For those of you here interested in serving your Nation, find
    somebody who hurts and love them or feed the hungry or find shelter for
    those who are looking for housing. Al has done the same thing through a
    mentoring program, and I appreciate--he also told me that he was in the
    Cleveland Indians organization and knew Rocky Colavito. Yes, pretty
    good. Obviously, we've got some baby boomers here. [Laughter]
        A couple of things before we get to Social Security. One, I just
    talked to Laura this morning, and she sends her
    best. She knew I was coming to Cedar Rapids. She said to say hello to
    everybody there. She was calling from Afghanistan. She'd just gone over
    there, and she was explaining to me how hopeful it was to have gone to a
    dormitory for women at a teacher's college. We helped build that
    dormitory--we, the people of America.
        Think about a society that has gone from a Taliban-dominated society
    where, if you were a women and spoke your mind, you were taken to the
    public square and whipped, to a free society in which women are now
    being trained to be able to follow their hearts and teach. That's the
    difference between tyranny and freedom. And free societies--it's
    important for people to know, free societies will be peaceful societies.
    Free societies in the part of the world that's desperate for freedom
    sets a clear example to others that it's possible to be free. And it's--
    I've been impressed by the protests in Beirut, Lebanon, where people are
    saying to Syria, ``Get out of our country so we can be a free country
    and a democracy.''
        I was impressed by the people of Iraq, who, in the face of car
    bombings and suiciders, said, ``We're going to defy these folks because
    we want to be free.'' And they voted in overwhelming numbers for the
    first Assembly, democratically elected Assembly in years. Freedom is on
    the march, which means peace is on the march.

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    And we shouldn't be surprised, because in America we understand freedom,
    and we know freedom is not our gift to the world. Freedom is the
    Almighty God's gift to each man and woman in this world.
        And flying in, I saw a lot of people on tractors. It's a good sign.
    [Laughter] But it reminded me about what is possible when it comes to
    reasonable energy policy. See, one day I hope that those tractors are
    planting fuel so we become less reliant on foreign sources of energy. We
    have got a significant problem. We're too dependent on energy sources
    from overseas, and it's beginning to show up at your gas pump. We need
    to think differently about energy. And now is the time for Congress to
    pass an energy bill which encourages conservation, encourages research
    and development so that biodiesel or ethanol can work--more likely work
    in our automobiles, encourages the research and development on hydrogen-
    powered automobiles. We've got research and development going to
    FutureGen plants so that we can burn coal in a zero-emissions way.
        In other words, now is the time to get a bill passed to not only
    make us less dependent on foreign sources of energy but to encourage new
    ways of using energy here in America. Now is the time for Congress to
    act and get the bill to my desk.
        I could go on. Laura warned me, don't--she said, ``Sometimes you
    talk too much, and so make sure you keep it relatively short here.'' And
    I said, ``Okay, I'll try and give it my best shot.'' Obviously, I
    haven't done a very good job.
        Let me talk about Social Security. I'm talking about Social Security
    because I see a problem, and I believe the job of the President is to
    confront problems and not pass them on to future Presidents or a future
    Congress. That's what I think you elected me for.
        First, I agree with Chuck when he said that Franklin Roosevelt did a
    good thing in creating the Social Security system. Social Security has
    worked for a lot of people. It has provided a safety net for a lot of
    citizens. The problem is, there's a hole in the safety net for a
    generation which is coming up, and let me tell you why.
        Let me--I'll just put it in personal terms. There's a lot of people
    like me getting ready to retire. We're called baby boomers. I turn 62 in
    2008. It's a convenient year for me to retire, by the way. [Laughter] We
    are living longer than the previous generation. We have been promised
    more benefits than the previous generation. See, people ran for office
    saying, ``Vote for me. I'm going to give you more benefits if you put me
    in.'' So you've got a lot of baby boomers getting ready to retire who
    will be living longer years and promised more benefits. That's part of
    the math.
        The other part of the math is that there are fewer workers paying
    for people like me. In 1950, there were 16 workers paying into the
    system for every beneficiary, so you can see the load wasn't that heavy.
    Today, it's 3.3 workers for every beneficiary. Soon, it's going to be 2
    workers. If you're a younger person going to community college here,
    you're going to have to pay a lot of money out of your pocket to make
    sure I get the benefits I'm promised, unless we do something different.
        So the math has changed. The system is an important system, but it's
    got a hole in the safety net. I say the hole in the safety net for the
    younger workers because if you're somebody who's retired or near
    retired, somebody born prior to 1950, you don't have a thing to worry
    about. The promise will be kept. I don't care what the politics--
    politicians say. I don't care what the propaganda says. The truth is,
    this Government will keep its promise to those people who are receiving
    their check today and the promise to those who were born prior to 1950.
        When the math has changed like it is, the system starts going in the
    red pretty quickly. In 2017, there's going to be more money going out
    than coming in for Social Security. By the way, we don't have a trust

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    in Social Security. It's called pay-as-you-go. See, some people think
    there's a Social Security trust where we've taken your money, and we've
    held it for you, and then when you retire, we give it back to you. No,
    what happens is we take your money; we pay money out for the promises
    for those people who have retired; and if we've got anything left over,
    we spend it on things other than Social Security. That's just the way it
    works. It's been working that way for a long period of time, and what's
    left are a pile of IOUs, paper.
        Now, as a pay-as-you-go system, when you've got a lot of people like
    me retiring, getting bigger benefits, living longer, with fewer people
    paying in, pretty soon the system goes into the red. And it does in
    2017. And every year thereafter, the situation gets worse and worse and
    worse. To give you an example, in 2027, the Government is going to have
    to come up with $200 billion more than that which is coming in in
    payroll taxes just to make the promises.
        So you can see from that chart there, the situation in 2017 gets
    bad, and it gets worse. Don't take my word for it. Take the word of the
    Social Security Trustees. They issued a report recently. It said the
    situation is worse than we thought. In 2017, the system starts to go
    into the red, worse every year after. And the longer we wait, the harder
    it's going to be for a--younger workers to make up the difference.
        So this is a generational issue. It's an issue that affects not
    those of you who have retired, but it affects your children and your
    grandchildren. And the fundamental question is, do we have the will in
    Washington, DC, to take on the tough problems?
        I went in front of the Congress and I said, ``Look, now is the time
    to act.'' And I fully understand, I'm telling you, the longer we wait,
    the tougher it's going to be on younger workers. And so I said, ``All
    ideas are on the table.'' I said, ``If you've got a good idea, bring it
    forward.'' I don't think there's a Democrat idea. I don't think it's a
    Republican idea. I think these are just ideas that need to be on the
    table. I think I'm the first President ever to have stood up and said,
    ``Bring all your ideas forward.'' And that's an important message for
    members of both political parties to hear, that if you've got a good
    idea, we expect you to be at the table; we expect you to bring it
    forward. We--I expect you to bring it forward, but more importantly, the
    American people expect you to bring it forward. There's a lot of people
    who know we've got a problem when it comes to this issue, and now is the
    time for people to act.
        And I think when they bring ideas forward, they've got to be with
    one thing in mind, fixing this issue permanently. In 1983, Tip O'Neill,
    Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole said, ``We've got a
    problem. Let's see if we can't fix it.'' And they put together a 75-year
    fix, they said. First of all, I appreciate the spirit of Republicans and
    Democrats coming together. But it wasn't a 75-year fix. This was 1953
    [1983]. * We're only in 2005. It wasn't a 75-year fix. If it was a 75-
    year fix, I wouldn't be sitting here talking about it. Now is the time,
    if we're going to come to the table, to do so and fix it permanently.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        * White House correction.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mr. Chairman understands that, and
    he's told both Republicans and Democrats, ``If you think you've got a
    good idea, bring them forward.'' And people need to understand that,
    that we want to listen to good ideas. President Clinton had some ideas when he was the President. Senator Daniel
    Patrick Moynihan had some good ideas. As a matter of fact, in 2001, he
    was the Democrat Senator from New York. He'd retired. I asked him to
    serve on a Commission to look at Social Security. Republicans and
    Democrats came together and they came up with some very interesting
    ideas to fix the problem permanently. They didn't sit around the table
    and say, ``I'm not going to listen to your idea because you happen to be
    a Democrat,'' and ``I'm not going

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    to listen to your idea because you happen to be a Republican.'' They
    said, ``We have a duty and an obligation to come together and make
    recommendations to the President and the Congress, not based upon
    parties but based upon what will work.''
        And one of the ideas they brought forward, both Republicans and
    Democrats brought forward, is in order to make the system work for
    younger workers, that they ought to--we ought to allow younger workers
    to set aside some of their own money in a personal savings account as
    part of the Social Security; in other words, a voluntary program that
    says you should be allowed to take some of your own money--after all, it
    is your payroll tax--and put it aside in an account of bonds and stocks.
    That's what you ought to be allowed to do.
        Now, this doesn't fix the system permanently, but it makes the
    system a better deal for younger workers. And I'll tell you why. First,
    a conservative mix of bonds and stocks earns a better rate of return on
    your money than the money that's being held in the Social Security--by
    the Government. And that's important for people to understand.
        And as that money earns, it is a compounding rate of interest; it
    grows. For example, you take a worker making $35,000 over his or her
    lifetime, and say, for example, a third of the payroll taxes, or 4
    percent, were allowed to go into a personal savings account, that the
    nest egg that person would own over time in a conservative mix of bonds
    and stocks would grow to $250,000, see. That would be a nice part of a
    retirement package. There will be a Social Security system that the
    Government is going to pay you benefits. I can't tell you how much until
    we get people together to the table, but it will be augmented. Your
    Social Security plan, your benefits will be augmented by the money
    coming out of your own account. In other words, money grows if you hold
    it over time. It's not growing right now at a significant enough rate.
    It will grow if you're able to save it.
        Secondly, I like the idea of people owning something. I want more
    people owning something, not fewer people. There's this kind of notion
    that this investor class in America only applies to a certain group of
    people. That's not what I think. I think the more investors we have, the
    more owners we have in America, the better off America is. And I want to
    see ownership spread throughout all our society.
        I like the idea of someone working their lifetime building a nest
    egg they call their own and passing it on to whomever they want. That
    ought to be--that idea ought to be available to people from all walks of
    life. I like the idea of having a plan to help somebody whose spouse may
    have died prior to retirement. Think about the Social Security system
    today. If you're a--been working 30 years, started at age 21, and you're
    51 years old and you pass away and you still--and you've got a wife or a
    husband, the money in the system--the wife or husband doesn't get any of
    the money until he or she retires. And then, if he or she happens to be
    working, he or she only gets--only gets--the higher of that which the
    Social Security will pay for him or her or the spouse but not both. So
    you've got somebody who's worked their life, contributed to the Social
    Security system, died early, didn't get one dime of retirement, and the
    money just goes away.
        Doesn't it make sense to allow somebody to set aside some of their
    own money, if they so choose, in an account they call their own, and if
    they predecease or die early, there's an asset base to be able to pass
    on to a loved one, to help that loved one transition.
        And finally, I don't know if you know this or not, but we have, at
    the Federal level, what's called a Thrift Savings Plan. In other words,
    this idea has already been used by Federal employees. Members of
    Congress, Members of the Senate are allowed to set aside some of their
    own

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    money in a conservative mix of bonds and stocks so they get a better
    rate of return. Now, in other words, this is--we're not inventing
    something new. For example, Federal employees can't take their money and
    put it in the lottery, or you can't take it to the racetrack. In other
    words, there's a prescribed way--a mix of bonds and stocks that is--that
    will allow you to get a better rate of return than your money in the
    system, without taking extraordinary risks.
        In other words, there's go-bys; there's guidelines. And it's already
    happening. Doesn't it make sense for Members of Congress to give younger
    workers the opportunity to do the same thing with their money that they
    get to do in their retirement system? Frankly, if it's good enough for
    Federal workers and elected officials, putting aside some of your own
    money in a personal retirement account, it ought to be good enough for
    all workers in America.
        So that's my thinking on the subject. I've got some other people up
    here who've been thinking about it too, and I'm going to start with Jeff
    Brown, Dr. Jeff Brown, Ph.D. Isn't that
    right?
        Jeffrey R. Brown. That is correct, sir.
        The President. So you are now a----
        Dr. Brown. Professor. I'm a professor
    at the University of Illinois. [Applause] All right. Wouldn't think I
    was in Hawkeye country here. [Laughter]
        The President. Big Ten country. [Laughter] Certain kind of loyalty
    throughout the conference.
        Dr. Brown. And I've been studying
    Social Security now for about 10 years.
        The President. I like to remind people, by the way, he's one of my--he's an adviser. So for the students
    here, take heart in this concept. He gets a Ph.D. I get Cs. [Laughter]
    I'm the President, and he's the adviser.
        Dr. Brown. All those years of
    education.
        The President. That's right. Keep rolling. You studied the issue.
        Dr. Brown. Yes, so, you're absolutely
    right that Social Security faces very severe financial problems, and
    they start very soon, just about 12 years from now. Really they start
    earlier, 3 years from now when the baby boomers start to retire and
    those surpluses that we're running start to dwindle down. Then they turn
    to deficits a few years later.

    [At this point, Dr. Brown, assistant professor, Department of Finance,
    University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Champaign, IL, made further
    remarks.]

        The President. Yes, it's estimated, for example--if you're a younger
    person, listen carefully--that if nothing happens, if we wait and delay,
    if it's kind of the typical political response, just wait to the--you
    know, wait until 2017 to call people together, that in order to make
    sure that the system works, that your payroll taxes are going from 12.4
    to 18 percent. Try that on, if you're working. That's not--by the way,
    that doesn't include Federal income taxes, State taxes, and local taxes.
        And so now is the time--I think what Jeff is saying, now is the time for us to deal with this
    problem.
        Now, again, I want to repeat, there's a couple of things about
    personal accounts that I think is important. One, it's just an optional
    plan. Shouldn't we give people the option of making the decision
    themselves? That seems like a reasonable approach for Government.
    Doesn't it say--doesn't it make sense for Government, people of both
    political parties to say, ``If you think you can do a better job than we
    can with your money, here's an opportunity to do so.'' It's voluntary. I
    happen to be a person who actually trusts people. It's your money. I
    trust you with your own money. To me that's an attitude that Congress
    ought to take: We trust you with your own money.
        Is that it, Professor? You did a fine
    job, as usual.

    [[Page 535]]

        Q. Joe Studer and Jinny Adams. Been married for how long? You got to speak in the
    mike.
        Joe Studer. Sixteen years.
        Jinny Adams. Going on 16 years.
        The President. Sixteen years--great. Got any kids?
        Mr. Studer. Nine between us.
        The President. Fantastic. Any of them here?
        Mr. Studer. Yes, yes, Angela is right over
    there.
        The President. Oh, there's Angela. Good.
        Mr. Studer. My daughter-in-law is with her.
        The President. I understand you're adoptive parents.
        Mrs. Adams. Yes.
        The President. Thanks for adopting. It is one of the greatest acts
    of love that a person can do. I appreciate you doing that.
        Mrs. Adams. Can I mention that it's her 23d
    birthday today?
        The President. Whose birthday?
        Mrs. Adams. Angela's.
        The President. Angela, would you like a
    little notoriety here? [Laughter] Mom just gave you some. Happy 23d
    birthday. And by the way, at the age of 23, you better hope that we
    permanently fix the Social Security system. [Laughter]
        Anyway, thank you all for coming. Joe, you
    got some retirement income?
        Mr. Studer. We both have retirement income,
    much thanks to the Federal Government. I was a Federal employee.
        The President. Good, yes.
        Mr. Studer. Started that career when I was 40
    years old, did a career change--kind of like you. [Laughter] And I was
    able to, first of all, get an excellent retirement plan from my
    employer, which I'm now taking advantage of. And secondly, in the early
    eighties, we had two opportunities to put money aside. One was the IRA
    that I was able to contribute a total of $6,000 to and watch it grow,
    and then lastly, the Thrift Savings Plan you're talking about is the
    option that we all had as Federal employees at that time--three choices.
    I contributed one third of my contribution, 12 percent of my wages, to
    each choice: conservative, semi-conservative, and the ever-risky stocks
    and bonds, the stocks in the stock market.
        The President. Right, and how did you do over time?
        Mr. Studer. My Thrift Savings Plan is
    approaching $100,000.
        The President. No, I'm not asking about that.
        Mr. Studer. Oh.
        The President. You're giving too much information here.
        Mr. Studer. Oh, okay, okay. [Laughter]
        The President. That's like asking a farmer--or a rancher how many
    cattle he's got. [Laughter] Was the rate of return decent on the money?
        Mr. Studer. Excellent. And--but we've had our
    down years. It goes up and down.
        The President. Sure. But over time----
        Mr. Studer. It's been far better than Social
    Security----
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Studer. ----and far better than doing
    nothing.
        The President. Yes. I talked to a person today who showed me her
    thrift savings account return at the restaurant there, and they had
    averaged about 6\1/2\ percent over time. There's a big difference
    between 6\1/2\ percent growing over time and the 1.8 percent the
    Government gets on your money over time. And that difference compounds a
    lot if you're a younger person. You start saving now at a 6\1/2\-percent
    rate, it grows, doesn't it?
        Mr. Studer. Yes, it does.
        The President. 100,000, that's--you brought it up, not me.
        Mr. Studer. That's right. [Laughter] But I'm
    proud of it. It was one of the better decisions I made in my life. This
    was the----
        The President. And let me ask you, for some people out there saying,
    ``I don't

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    think I've got the capacity to make an investment, to figure out what to
    do,'' was it a difficult, complex assignment?
        Mr. Studer. Initially, it was kind of scary.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Studer. Yes, but--and I was----
        The President. Looks like you've adjusted quite well.
        Mr. Studer. Yes, we have. Yes, we have.
    [Laughter] And then very comfortable with the assignment. And people
    that didn't join at that time did join 2 years later when they
    discovered how beneficial it was.
        The President. Yes. And Jinny, you're a--
    been in the school system. Thank you for teaching.
        Mrs. Adams. Yes, I have. I've been a
    counselor in the Cedar Rapids School District for 29 years, and--
    [applause]. Thank you. Thank you.
        The President. Are you getting Social Security at all?
        Mrs. Adams. Yes, I am.
        The President. Yes. Any doubt you're going to get the check?
        Mrs. Adams. None. I'm over 55. I'm in that
    55-plus-something group, and so I'm not worried.
        The President. So am I. [Laughter]
        Mrs. Adams. But I now have a retirement
    through the IPERS retirement system. And we're doing fine.
        The President. Yes, the key is, is that people who are getting a
    Social Security check just got to understand, it's coming. It--you will
    get your check. The question is whether or not your children will.
        Mrs. Adams. Yes, and that's why we're here,
    to help the situation for the young people. I think of the young
    teachers who are taking the places of those of us that have graduated
    from work, and so basically, we are here for them. We're here for our
    children, and we have 13 grandchildren.
        The President. Thirteen grandchildren? Great.
        Mrs. Adams. Yes, they are great.
        The President. Yes, well, that's good. Grandchildren are great. You
    can always just pass them back to the parents if things get a little
    rough.
        Mrs. Adams. That's right.
        Mr. Studer. [Inaudible]
        The President. Come by the house?
        Mrs. Adams. Yes.
        Mr. Studer. Come to the baptism Sunday.
        The President. Oh, really, you've got a baptism Sunday.
    Congratulations. I won't be making it, however. [Laughter]
        Mr. Studer. Just thought I'd ask.
        The President. I don't think you want people going through
    magnetometers to the building. [Laughter] Anyway, I'm glad you all are
    here. Thank you.
        Joe and Jinny are
    here as--to say loud and clear to the people of Iowa, ``You're going to
    get your check if you're 55 and older.'' I know I've said that once, and
    I've said it--I'm going to keep saying it a lot. And it's important for
    people to hear it, because I understand how important the Social
    Security check is to a lot of people, a lot of people. The system has
    worked. Franklin Roosevelt was wise about setting up a safety net for
    retirement. The question is, do we have the will in the United States
    Congress to make sure that safety net is available not for this
    generation, my generation, but for the generations coming up?
        And we've got some of the generations coming up sitting right here,
    starting with Dennis Bogaards.
        Dennis Bogaards. Mr. President.
        The President. Dennis, welcome. What do
    you do for a living?
        Mr. Bogaards. I'm a 33-year-old farmer
    from Pella.
        The President. Farmer, that's good.
        Mr. Bogaards. I've been farming since
    1992 with my dad, and--[applause]. Thank you.
        The President. Seems like there's a lot of farmers around this
    State.
        Mr. Bogaards. Well, I would hope so.
        The President. At least that's my experience.

    [[Page 537]]

    [Mr. Bogaards made further remarks.]

        The President. Yes, see, it's very interesting. You see a small-
    business man who talks about the fact that he is contributing into the system, wondering whether or
    not that which he's contributing into exists--will exist. He's--I
    presume you've heard of the shortfall that's coming your way.
        Mr. Bogaards. Yes, and I want that money
    to be available to my son and daughter sitting over here with my wife.
    And that's very important in the farming operation, to be able to have
    that money if I pass away, like you said, to have that money, that it
    doesn't go away, that it's there for them if they want to continue that
    family farm on. That's very important.
        The President. Right. We've got to get rid of the death tax, by the
    way, to make sure that the farm can go from one generation to the next.
    Right, Mr. Chairman? Yes.
        Good. You making a living, by the way? Making a living on the farm?
        Mr. Bogaards. You know, we're working as
    hard as we can, and this year doesn't look to be quite as good as last
    year was, but anything you can do for $10 beans or $5 corn would be
    great.
        The President. I'll tell you what we can do. I'll tell you what we
    can do. We can sell those soybeans around the world, is what we can do.
    We can make sure that others get these good Iowa soybeans.
        I appreciate you coming. Isn't it interesting, here's a
    guy who farms the land, sitting up here with
    the President talking about his worries about a Social Security
    solvency. I mean, this issue is beginning to permeate. People, whether
    they've been on a tractor or anywhere else in society, are beginning to
    hear the message: We have a problem. And part of the strategy, by the
    way, is to spend a lot of time, and I'm--over the 60-day period when I
    got started, we're going to spend the time saying to people, ``We have a
    problem,'' because guess what happens after that, once people figure out
    the problem. They start asking the questions to people like me and
    Grassley and Democrats in the Senate and
    the House, ``What are you going to do about it?'' See, once people
    understand there's a problem, the next question is, ``How come you're
    not solving the problem?'' And so here we've got a soybean farmer from
    Iowa sitting on the stage wondering whether or not there's the will to
    solve the problem.
        Mr. Bogaards. Exactly. That's a big
    concern.
        The President. Well, I appreciate you being here to lend your voice
    to this issue.
        Mr. Bogaards. Thank you. And I just want
    to back up what Charles--what Senator Grassley said about you taking the leadership to do this. I--so
    many times we feel like the tough issues aren't addressed, and we just
    thank you so much for your leadership in this issue and many others.
        The President. Well, thanks a lot. I appreciate you coming. Good
    luck on the farm.
        Mr. Bogaards. Thank you.
        The President. Lisa Loesch.
        Lisa Loesch. Hello.
        The President. Yes, ma'am. Hi. What do you do for a living?
        Mrs. Loesch. I'm an RN.
        The President. Good. By the way, this community college system has
    got a program to help--yes. Listen, there's fantastic programs in the
    community college system around America to take willing workers, people
    with good hearts, and train them to become RNs. Thanks for being an RN,
    and you're working at the hospital?
        Mrs. Loesch. I'm working at St. Luke's
    Hospital, which was recently voted one of the top 100 hospitals in the
    Nation.
        The President. Really?
        Mrs. Loesch. Yes.
        The President. Probably because of the nurses.
        Mrs. Loesch. Probably. Very likely.
        The President. That's good. Thanks. It's interesting that you would
    be sitting up

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    here. Explain to me why--what's on your mind?

    [Mrs. Loesch made further remarks.]

        The President. Yes, it's interesting--I'm not going to tell you
    Lisa's age, but she's, like, not quite baby
    boomer but a little older than the man here. [Laughter] And people are
    beginning to understand that the promises that have been made to my
    generation may not be able to be kept. I think that's what you're
    saying. And your husband is an investment guy?
        Mrs. Loesch. He owns his own financial firm,
    yes.
        The President. Right. So he's used to
    stocks and bonds and all that?
        Mrs. Loesch. He understands it all, yes.
        The President. Yes. And the reason I bring that up is that--I
    mentioned this before, but there's this notion about only certain kind
    of people maybe have got the capacity to invest, watch their own money
    grow. I presume he works with people from all
    walks of life.
        Mrs. Loesch. He does. And we have six
    children, and three of them are already investing. As soon as they start
    a job, they start investing.
        The President. Really? That's smart, because it compounds. People
    understand compounding rate of interest. It grows. I mentioned the
    person making $35,000, which if you allow that person to put a third of
    their payroll taxes--not all that much money to begin with, but because
    money grows and compounds over time, he ends up or she ends up with a
    $250,000 nest egg. In other words, that's what the power of compounding
    rate of interest does. And it's something that we ought to afford
    younger workers. It makes a lot of sense to encourage people to save
    their own money.
        You know what else I like? I presume your husband's business clients get the quarterly statements.
        Mrs. Loesch. Yes.
        The President. Doesn't that make sense, that in a retirement system
    that somebody opens up their quarterly statement to see how their own
    money is growing? It's your money to begin with. It might make people
    pay more attention to the decisions made in Washington, DC, about what
    we do with your money. But I like the idea of encouraging more people to
    become investors. And it's not all that difficult. Again, I repeat,
    these systems aren't going to allow you to go in the lottery. You can't
    take flyers. There's a prescribed group of bonds and stocks you can
    invest in, and you can tailor-make it to your own circumstances.
        But I want to thank you for the philosophy you just outlined that
    says, ``Why doesn't Government trust you with your own money? It's yours
    to begin with.''
        Mrs. Loesch. Thank you.
        The President. Appreciate you coming, Lisa.
    You only got six kids?
        Mrs. Loesch. Only.
        The President. Wow. Any teenagers?
        Mrs. Loesch. Five of them are teenagers;
    four of them are driving.
        The President. Yes. So how come your hair isn't white like mine?
    [Laughter] Never mind.
        Mrs. Loesch. Because it's dyed.
        The President. Yes. [Laughter]
        And we're going to end up here with Chuck Knudsen. Welcome.
        Chris Knudsen. My name is Chris Knudsen.
        The President. Yes--I was thinking about your brother,
    Chuck. [Laughter]
        Mr. Knudsen. That's my dad, Chuck,
    actually.
        The President. Chuck.
        Mr. Knudsen. And he's over here with----
        The President. Where is Chuck? Where are
    you? Oh, you had a terrible seat.
        Mr. Knudsen. He's over there somewhere.
        The President. I'm actually here with Chuck's son, Chris.

    [[Page 539]]

        Mr. Knudsen. It's a pleasure to be here
    today.
        The President. You're a student here?
        Mr. Knudsen. I am a student here. I'm 20
    years old. I'm a sophomore here at Kirkwood Community College----
        The President. Great. Thank you.
        Mr. Knudsen. ----one of the finest community colleges in the Nation.
        The President. There's a man looking for
    an A, right there. Good. Twenty years old?
        Mr. Knudsen. Twenty years old.
        The President. Yes, and so here you are talking to the President
    about Social Security.
        Mr. Knudsen. I am.
        The President. Why?
        Mr. Knudsen. Why? Because my time outside
    of school is pretty much split between church and Scouts. I'm an elder
    in the First Presbyterian Church of Marion.
        The President. Fabulous.
        Mr. Knudsen. And the rest of my time is
    generally spent towards the Boy Scouts of America. I'm an Eagle Scout.
        The President. Are you? Congratulations.
        Mr. Knudsen. Thank you.
        The President. Setting a good example. What's that got to do with
    Social Security?
        Mr. Knudsen. Well, the last six summers
    I've worked at a Scout camp. I get a small check; it's not very large,
    but I do see the Social Security and the taxes taken off the top of
    those checks. And when I get those checks back, as I make more money
    each year, I continue to see more and more taken. And I tend to wonder
    where exactly it's going.
        The President. Yes. Interesting question, isn't it? When you start
    seeing money taken out of your check and you start to hear we got a
    problem, and you start to wondering where the money is going. I'll tell
    you where it's going. See that red right there? That's where it's going,
    unless we do something about it right now.
        Mr. Knudsen. Exactly.
        The President. It's interesting, you know, when I was 20 years old,
    I wasn't worried about Social Security. I think of anybody else born
    around 1946, '47, '48--I don't remember being 20 years old wondering
    whether or not the Social Security system was solvent, because we
    thought it was, didn't we?
        Mr. Knudsen. Exactly.
        The President. You didn't know. You weren't there. [Laughter]
        Mr. Knudsen. Well, I see what the future
    of Social Security is, and I start to wonder if, when I become 62, if
    the money is going to be there for me. The way the system is set up now,
    it's not going to be.
        The President. Well, I appreciate that. You know, there's a survey
    of people Chris's  age--not Chuck's age, Chris's age--that said they are more likely to see
    a UFO than get a Social Security check. [Laughter]
        Mr. Knudsen. The way the system is set up,
    I tend to believe that.
        The President. Yes. You know what's interesting about this younger
    generation of folks is that the investment culture has changed. If you
    think about it--401(k), IRAs, those didn't exist when we were growing
    up. People weren't used to have incentives to invest their own money.
    But it's changed. All through society, people are learning to invest
    their money. The system is designed for plans where people can watch and
    manage their own money. That's what's changed in our society, hasn't it?
        Mr. Knudsen. I'd like to have the option
    to spend my money the way I would like to invest it.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. Knudsen. I've been able to, through my
    dad, he showed me--kept me up to date on the family finances and things
    like that. And I feel that if I had some options with my own money, I
    could spend it wiser for myself than the Government has with Social
    Security.
        The President. Yes, invest it wiser. So you won't be spending it
    until you retire.
        Mr. Knudsen. Exactly.
        The President. In other words, it's very important for people to
    understand, the

    [[Page 540]]

    nest egg you own is for--is to be a part of a retirement system. In
    other words, the Government is going to be able to afford something, and
    on top of that will be your own nest egg. It's a part of the retirement
    system. And that asset base that you build will not only help you in
    retirement, but if you so choose, you can leave it to whomever you want,
    which is, I think, a vital part of having a vibrant society, that assets
    are passed from one generation to the next.
        Good job.
        Mr. Knudsen. Thank you.
        The President. You want to have the final word, or you want me to?
        Mr. Knudsen. I can go ahead and talk a
    little more if you would like. [Laughter] I think the other key thing
    that most people are forgetting is the fact that if I felt that I wasn't
    wise enough to invest my money and I wasn't confident in myself, I have
    the option not to accept the personal account and leave the system as it
    is and take the system. So I have the option of doing it if I care to or
    not.
        The President. Precisely right. I appreciate you understanding that.
    I got the final word. [Laughter]
        Mr. Knudsen. Okay.
        The President. First of all, I want to thank our panelists for
    joining us. I hope you found this to be an educational discussion about
    a problem that we need to solve now. If you're over 55 years old, you'll
    get your check. I don't care what the propaganda says. I don't care what
    the pamphleteers say. I don't care what the ads say. You're going to get
    your check. Now, if you're a younger person here at this fine community
    college, you need to be asking the people in the United--you don't have
    to worry about your Senator and Congressman, but you need to be a part
    of people saying, ``We have a problem. You all got elected for a reason.
    Now, what are you going to do about it to make sure the Social Security
    system is permanently solved.''
        Thanks for coming today. I appreciate your time. God bless.

    Note: The President spoke at 12:23 p.m. at Kirkwood Community College.
    In his remarks, he referred to Mick Starcevich, president, and Steve
    Ovel, executive director of governmental relations, Kirkwood Community
    College; Iowa State Senator Chuck Larson; Mayor Paul D. Pate of Cedar
    Rapids, IA; and former professional baseball player Rocky Colavito.