    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2005, Book I)]
    [April 8, 2005]
    [Pages 569-579]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Reporters Aboard Air Force One
    April 8, 2005

    Pope John Paul II's Funeral

        The President. Listen, were you there in person?
        Q. Yes.
        The President. One, I'm really glad I came. There was never any
    question I would come. Last night we hosted a reception at the Embassy
    for many of the leaders of the Catholic Church at home, and they were
    very grateful that I came and Laura came and
    Dad came and President Clinton came and Condi came
    as well as others. And I told them, to a person, that it's such an honor
    to represent our country at a ceremony honoring a truly great man who is
    and will always be a great historical figure.
        I knew the ceremony today would be majestic, but I didn't realize
    how moved I would be by the service, itself, by the beautiful music. I
    was struck--as an aside--struck by the fact that the sound was so clear
    in this huge facility. It was as if we were inside the cathedral
    listening, and the voices were so pure. I thought the homily was really
    good. We were given an English version, fortunately--if you haven't read
    it, maybe you've seen it? Yes. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautifully done.
        I was struck by the response of the crowd. And I think it's
    interesting to note the moments where the crowd responded. One in
    particular is when His Eminence
    spoke to His Holiness's relationship to the young of the world, and
    there was a great outpouring of enthusiasm for that line. And then I
    think the thing that struck all our delegation most intensely was the
    final scene of the plain-looking casket--one of three, by the way, lead,
    wood, and wood--being carried and held up for the seal to be seen, and
    then the sun pouring out. This will be one of the highlights of my
    Presidency, to have been at this great ceremony.
        So off we go to home now.

    Pope John Paul II's Legacy

        Q. Your predecessor suggested that the Pope would leave a mixed
    legacy, even though he was a great man. Since you differed with him on
    the war to such a great degree, do you also think it will be a mixed
    legacy?
        The President. I think Pope John Paul II will have a clear legacy of
    peace, compassion, and a strong legacy of setting a clear moral tone.

    Upcoming Meeting With Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

        Q. You're going to see Prime Minister Sharon soon. There's been some
    talk in Israel that maybe you're not going to raise this issue of this
    latest settlement expansion. Are you going to do that?
        The President. I've raised the issue of settlement expansions
    publicly. I mean, it was upon the prompting of your question. You bet.
    What I say publicly, I say privately. And that is, the roadmap has clear
    obligations on settlements and that we expect the Prime Minister to
    adhere to those roadmap obligations. And the roadmap has got obligations
    for the Palestinians. We have a great opportunity--``we,'' the world,
    has a great opportunity to help a democracy grow--begin and grow,
    starting in the Gaza.
        The Prime Minister of Israel has decided to pull out of Gaza. As you
    know, I applauded that decision at the White House, with him standing by
    my side. And I think now is the time to focus the world's attention on
    what is possible. And we've already started that process of realizing
    the possible by having General Ward work
    with the Palestinians to streamline and coordinate Palestinian security
    forces so that, upon the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza,

    [[Page 570]]

    there is a security presence that will protect people.
        We've got to do more. We've got to make sure that an economy can
    flourish there.
        Q. So you're going to try to talk him out of this latest settlement
    expansion he's talking about?
        The President. My position is clear, and I will--I stated,
    obviously, now the second time in a brief period of time, and I will say
    so privately as well.
        I think you need to know what the successful strategy will be. And
    that is there is more than just security in Gaza. We need to have
    institution-building, and there needs to be an international effort that
    encourages and fosters economic vitality so that a government which does
    emerge in Gaza will be able to better speak to the hopes of those who
    live in the Gaza. And success in the Gaza will make success on the West
    Bank easier. And so one of our--I will be talking to the Prime Minister
    about the need to work with the Palestinian Government, President
    Abbas, to facilitate success, to
    enhance success.
        Let me make sure I go back to the first answer on His Holiness. I said--I think my answer was, is that--what did
    I say?

    Pope John Paul II's Legacy

        Q. I asked if you thought it was a mixed message, and you said, ``I
    think John Paul II will have a clear legacy of peace.''
        The President. A clear and excellent legacy, if you don't mind
    adding the word ``excellent.''
        Q. Clear and excellent.
        The President. Yes. In other words, a strong legacy. I wanted to
    make sure there was a proper adjective to the legacy I thought he left
    behind. It was more than just ``clear.''
        Press Secretary Scott McClellan. You
    said ``strong,'' too, in that answer.
        The President. Okay.
        Q. Yes, you said ``strong legacy of setting a clear moral tone.''
        The President. Fine. Okay, good.

    Democracy in the Middle East

        Q. Getting back to the Middle East for a moment, there have been
    hopeful signs in the region lately. But some in the region think that
    some of our allies there, particularly Saudi Arabia and Egypt, still are
    not doing enough to help foster democracy in their own countries. Do you
    think they're doing enough, or are you encouraging them to----
        The President. We will continue to encourage democracy. But I also
    have said many times that it is important for those of us who live in a
    democratic society to remember two things: One, our own road to
    democracy was a little bumpy; we have a Constitution and a Declaration
    of Independence but, nevertheless, had slavery for a long period of
    time, for example. And secondly, that we shouldn't expect others to
    adapt that which we think--we shouldn't try to impose our democracy on
    other nations. What we should say is, ``We'll work with you to develop a
    democracy which adapts to your own cultures and your own religions and
    your own habits.''
        I'm fully aware that there is work to be done. But I think it's also
    our job to encourage those nations and, at the same time, recognize that
    all nations are not starting at the same spot in order to achieve
    democracy. I mean, Iraq, it's very important for us in Iraq to recognize
    that we--we transferred sovereignty 10 months ago. Remember we all
    traveled to NATO--to the NATO summit? And it may seem like an eternity
    to you all--[laughter]--but 10 months in the greater scheme of things is
    a short period of time. And nevertheless, during that short period of
    time, the Iraqis have voted, and today they've announced their Prime
    Minister. The Government will be up and
    running, the Government Assembly there, to write a constitution. In
    other words, things are happening quite rapidly, which is positive.

    [[Page 571]]

        But nevertheless, there is a certain--there's got to be a certain
    realism about how fast things can possibly happen, given where different
    nations have started from.
        Now, I will continue to press forward on encouraging democracy and
    reform in every nation, because I believe that is the ultimate strategy
    to defeat the terrorists. In the short run, we'll continue to find them
    and work with nations to find them and share intelligence to find them,
    bring them to justice. In the long term, the spread of freedom and
    democracy--democracies reflecting the nature of the people and the
    history of those countries will mean that generations will more likely
    grow up in peace.

    Pope John Paul II's Funeral

        Q. When you sat there surrounded by that incredibly--array of world
    leaders and looked forward to the kind of spread of democracy you're
    talking about, is there something about just that assemblage there? Who
    did you talk to? Who did you see? And did it strike you that this was a
    remarkable ability to pull together such disparate people?
        The President. I was most attentive to the ceremony, itself, and was
    amazed by the size of the crowd. We came walking out of the grand
    stairway, and it was a very inspiring sight.
        Q. And the flags.
        The President. And the flags and the statues and just--yes, the
    bishops and the archbishops and different leaders of the churches right
    across the way from me. Of course, the cardinals--you know, a handful of
    whom I know, have gotten to know quite well and admire greatly, by the
    way. So that was pretty well my focus there.
        When I first got there--when Laura and I
    first got there, we shook hands with the folks around us. Obviously,
    Jacques and Madam Chirac were right next door; I spent some time visiting
    with them. But everybody there was--there wasn't much chitchat. There
    was intense focus on the ceremony.
        Q. But what it represented, to have that many people----
        The President. No, I understand. I believe that is part of the power
    of Pope John Paul II. And he was such a believer in freedom. I saw Lech
    Walesa, for example. I was struck by the number
    of Polish flags that were in the crowd.
        You know what was really interesting? There were some signs urging
    that His Holiness be made a saint.
        Q. Now!
        The President. ``Now,'' yes--``subito.'' You know, I really didn't
    reflect that much on the politics of the moment during the ceremony. I
    was more--I thought a lot about Pope John Paul II. I mean, here's a
    person who has shown that a single individual can make a big difference
    in history and that, in my judgment, he received his great power and
    strength from the Almighty.
        Q. Just to follow up on that, Mr. President, a couple questions
    about the Pope. One, I noticed at one point you had your glasses on, and
    you were following along--I'm not sure if you were looking at the homily
    at that point or maybe, did you have one of those guides that----
        The President. I did. It's hard to follow--my Spanish is not very
    good--[laughter]--nevertheless, it is decent enough to pick up sounds
    that then can help me follow the Italian.
        Q. Had you ever been to a Latin mass before? I imagine you've been
    to an English mass.
        The President. No, never been to a Latin mass.
        Q. The other question was, we never had a chance to--you talked
    about a lot about what struck you from this ceremony. We never got a
    chance to talk to you about, by contrast, how you were struck by the
    wake, if you will, when you went through

    [[Page 572]]

    the other night. How do the two ceremonies--you know, different kinds of
    emotions in the two?
        The President. I felt--I mean, obviously, we were surrounded by a
    crowd at the wake, but I felt--when I was kneeling there, I felt--I'm
    trying to think of the right word--``alone'' isn't the right word,
    because I was aware of people, but felt much more in touch with a
    spirit. I really did. I was very much--felt at peace there and was
    prayerful. And at the other ceremony, it was probably just because of
    all the sights and sounds and majesty and colors that, you know, I felt
    more like a spectator than a participant, but more of a spectator.
        Q. You knew him personally, I mean, to kneel there and see his body
    after you've met with him so many times and had--I mean, that must have
    been quite powerful and----
        The President. My relationship with Pope John Paul II was a very
    good relationship. He was such a gentle man, and at the end of his life
    he made his points to me with his eyes. The last visit, as you know, he
    was pretty physically--he was struggling, and yet his eyes twinkled,
    just real clear. Much of the communications was done by paperwork,
    which----
        Q. Did he speak English?
        The President. Some, but it was hard to really understand him
    because he was struggling. That's why it's really interesting for people
    to note that there was a lot of testimony--and in my remarks, I tried to
    witness that as well--that his struggle at the end of his life and the
    dignity with which he struggled was a clear example of Christ's
    influence in his life.
        I was honored to see that firsthand. He's one of the great vigorous
    leaders--mountain climber, educator, instructor--who then had to
    struggle using the very tools that enabled him to be a vigorous teacher,
    outdoorsman, freedom fighter, and yet, nevertheless, he still could
    communicate clearly through eyes which were, you know, crystal clear.
    And I remember the Castel Gandolfo, when Laura
    and I went to visit him. And he took us out on the balcony. The Castel
    overlooks this fantastic lake; it's a spectacular lake. And he was much
    more conversant then. I think it might have been my first trip?
        Q. It was 2001.
        The President. Yes. Right before or after Genoa, the G-8 in Genoa.
    And he had a sparkle; he really wanted to show us this beautiful
    setting. I would define Pope John Paul II as a clear thinker who was
    like a rock. And tides of moral relativism kind of washed around him,
    but he stood strong as a rock. And that's why millions--one of the
    reasons why millions came to admire and love him.
        I was asked by some of the leadership of the Church, was I surprised
    at the turnout? I said, ``Not at all, because millions from all
    religions, millions of Catholics and millions of others admired his
    strength and his purpose and his moral clarity.''
        Q. How did the Pope struggle with his health at the end of his life
    and his example throughout his life strengthen your own faith?
        The President. Well, you know, it is as--clear example of Christ's
    influence in a person's life that he maintained such a kind of hopeful,
    optimistic, clear point of view amidst struggles--in his case, physical
    struggles. And that's--a lot of Christians gain great strength and
    confidence from seeing His Holiness in the last stages of life.
        Q. Do you think that will help you in the months and years ahead, in
    your own life?
        The President. Well, I think all of us get touched in different ways
    if you're on a faith journey--we're all affected differently. But yes, I
    think my relationship with--and Pope John Paul II's example will serve--
    will be a moment in my life that will strengthen my faith and my
    belief--not just me, more significantly, millions of people whose life
    he touched. I think we

    [[Page 573]]

    might have witnessed--I don't know--perhaps the largest funeral in the
    history of mankind. I'm not sure if that's true or not; somebody said
    that might be true.
        But there's a reason why the largest crowd ever to come and pay
    homage to a human happened, and it's because of the man's character, his
    views, his positions, his leadership capacity, his ability to relate to
    all people, his deep compassion, his love of peace. There's a reason
    why. Again, I repeat, I was honored to be one of many there, and I know
    you all were as well.
        Besides the pomp and the majesty and the colors, there was a spirit
    that was an integral part of the ceremony. For me, the spirit was also
    at the wake, but more personal at the wake. That was a personal moment.

    President's Faith

        Q. If there was ever a moment where you ever had any doubts in your
    own faith, what out of the past public things would strengthen your
    resolve and firm up your relationship with your God?
        The President. I think a walk in faith constantly confronts doubt,
    as faith becomes more mature. And you constantly confront, you know,
    questions. My faith is strong. The Bible talks about, you've got to
    constantly stay in touch with the Word of God in order to help you on
    the walk. But the Lord works in mysterious ways, and during all our
    life's journeys, we're enabled to see the Lord at work if our eyes are
    open and our hearts are open. And today--you can analyze, and you can
    look at the coffin being held, with the sun shining on it, anyway you
    want. I happen to feel it was a special moment that was part of a
    special ceremony for a special person. And it helped strengthen my
    faith. And you can have your faith strengthened on--you can have your
    faith strengthened when you stand up at a faith-based initiative and see
    someone standing up and testify to what their love has done to help a
    child or how a child's life has been helped.
        My faith gets strengthened when I went to the school the other day
    and saw the mentoring relationship between a young professional woman
    and a young kid who's going to go to the SEED School where there's a 95-
    percent chance that kid is going to go to college. And that helps
    strengthen my faith. So there's, you know, ways--whether the moment be
    majestical or whether the moment be a part of just an average--your
    average moment in life, you can find ways to strengthen your faith. And
    it's necessary to do so, in my judgment. There is a--it's called a
    ``walk.'' It's not called a ``moment'' or a ``respite''; it's a
    ``walk.'' It's a constant maturing of an understanding of a--and today's
    ceremony, I bet you, for millions of people was a reaffirmation for many
    and a way to make sure doubts don't seep into your soul.

    Pope John Paul II's Successor

        Q. Given that, how difficult do you think that it will be finding a
    successor to fill his shoes?
        The President. Look, I'm interested in working with whoever the
    successor is. And I think that, as Cardinal McCarrick said at the ceremony on Saturday, the
    day His Holiness died, asked for prayers as he began his journey as one
    of the electors, as a Cardinal. You know, I'm not going to prejudge the
    selection process.
        Q. Are there any qualities that you're specifically looking for?
        The President. I'm not a part of the selection process. I will be a
    President representing a great nation in dealing with a great
    institution with which we have diplomatic relations.
        Q. It's got to be a tough act to follow, though.

    President's Meeting With Italian Prime Minister Silvio
    Berlusconi

        Q. Can you tell us a little bit about your dinner with Prime
    Minister Berlusconi? Did you talk, particularly, on Iraq? Did the

    [[Page 574]]

    subject come up, in terms of the intelligence officer who was killed by
    Americans?
        The President. Yes, it did come up, and I expressed my regret once
    again and assured him that the investigation would be conducted in an
    aboveboard, transparent way.
        Q. Did he say it had been a problem for him in keeping the support
    that there is in Italy for having troops in Iraq?
        The President. No, he reaffirmed his commitment to--which he has
    given in the past--that we've got to make sure we complete the mission,
    that we help Iraqis to fight off the few. He knows what I know, that the
    sooner that gets done, the sooner our troops will be able to come home.
        But he's also aware that what we don't want to do is leave
    prematurely, so that we don't complete our job. And the new Government
    is just about to be stood up; we look forward to working with the new
    Government on a lot of things and a lot of fronts. But on the security
    front, it's to make sure we're in sync with our training schedules, make
    sure that the chain of command within the military and between the
    civilian government and the military are strong and capable and will
    endure.
        We've been waiting for this new Government so that we can then
    strategize. And as soon as the Government is sworn in, the appropriate
    folks, we can get Zal confirmed quickly,
    get him out there--of course, we have a good, strong Deputy Chief of
    Mission there now, upon swearing in--of
    course, I will be in contact with the Prime Minister. I've already spoke to the President. And General Casey, as
    well as the Charge--I mean, the Deputy Chief of Mission will be in touch
    with; Condi will be touch with her
    counterpart; Secretary Rumsfeld will be
    in touch with his counterpart as we strategize as to how to move
    forward.
        As we strategize on tactics, on how to implement the strategy--which
    is clear--which is, we want to train you and make you as efficient as
    possible as quickly as possible, so that all of us can begin to, you
    know, as I say, bring our troops home with the honor they've earned.
        Q. Italy is going to pull out 3,000 troops, I think, by the fall.
    Will you be able to absorb that?
        The President. I don't know why you say that. I'm not sure why you
    said what you just said.
        Q. I thought that was the number of troops Italy had in Iraq, and
    I----
        The President. They've got 3,300 now, and you said they're going to
    pull 3,000 out by the fall?
        Q. Well, I guess--I don't----
        The President. Okay. What I did hear was, is that the Prime Minister
    wants to work to make sure we complete the mission. But I'm not sure
    where that came from.
        Q. Do you think he'll leave troops in if, in fact, enough haven't
    been trained?
        The President. I think we'll work to complete the training mission
    of the Iraqis. And it's important we do it and get it right. The amazing
    thing is, is that if you really think about what's happened in the 10-
    month period, in spite of some very difficult days and in spite of some
    tragedy, loss of life, this country is--there is a democracy emerging in
    this country. And it was really kicked off by the huge vote of over 8
    million people.
        But no, we'll work with all our coalition, continue to make sure we
    stay in touch with all our--I had breakfast with Tony Blair this morning, speaking about coalition. You know, I stay
    in regular contact with the Prime Minister.

    Representative Tom DeLay

        Q. Can I ask you about Tom DeLay, the statement he made in the wake
    of the Schiavo case, that judges were out of control and should be held
    accountable. What did you think about those?
        The President. I believe in an independent judiciary. I believe in
    proper

    [[Page 575]]

    checks and balances. And we'll continue to put judges on the bench who
    strictly and faithfully interpret the Constitution.

    Foreign and Domestic Priorities/Social Security Reform

        Q. Mr. President, I know you're not--you've said--you've often said
    you're not consumed by polls, but a fair amount has been written lately
    about your approval ratings, which in some polls are at sort of a low
    point. Some polls----
        The President. Some of them were going up the other day.
        Q. Okay. Well, some say that----
        The President. You can find them going up, and you can find them
    going down. [Laughter]
        Q. In general, what----
        The President. You can pretty much find out what you want in polls,
    is my point. [Laughter]
        Q. What about the theory that your Presidency is moving from one
    dominated by foreign policy to one of domestic policy? Ironically, now
    that some of things are settling down in Iraq and Afghanistan and you're
    facing tough issues like Social Security, it's a little tougher road to
    hoe. What are your thoughts?
        The President. My thoughts are the President has always got to
    balance foreign policy and domestic policy, and I will--I did so in the
    first term. As you might remember, we were confronted with a recession,
    and I felt we needed to reform schools, and at the same time, I had to
    fight the war on terror. We're continuing to fight the war on terror.
    The war on terror goes on, and that's the important thing for me to
    continue to remind our fellow citizens. By the way, we will work to
    defeat the enemy by, you know, making sure our troops are well framed
    up, prepared, ready to move quickly. It's part of the transformation
    process that the Secretary is leading.
    And to make sure our intelligence services mesh and work closely
    together, I'm looking forward to getting John Negroponte confirmed as quickly as possible, so we can deal with
    this crucial aspect.
        But there's also, obviously, a domestic component. There was a
    domestic component in the first term. There is a domestic component in
    the second term. I might remind you that at points during the tax
    debate, I can remember people had declared that tax relief was dead on
    arrival. Occasionally, somebody would say something that was not very
    positive about the process, and people would all of a sudden assume that
    nothing was going to get done. So I'm accustomed to, you know, the
    process of getting a piece of legislation out. And I'm very optimistic
    that when it's all said and done, the legislators will understand that
    the American people recognize there's a problem in Social Security and
    expect something to be done. And I look forward to being a part of that.
        I had laid out a timetable to make it clear to the American people
    my views about the problems inherent in Social Security. And I think
    we're making progress. I think slowly but surely, the American people
    are coming to realize there is a serious problem with Social Security--
    not if you've retired. And that's the other aspect of making sure we
    succeed in the Social Security debate, is to make sure seniors know
    they're going to get their checks. And we've got work to do on that.
        Q. Still think it will pass this year?
        The President. I certainly hope so, because now is the time to fix
    the problem. Every year we wait costs billions of dollars more. And I
    fully realize some people would rather me not be discussing this issue.
    The job of the President is to set an agenda that deals with problems.
    And sometimes--sometimes the legislature doesn't want to deal with the
    problem.
        But I'm going to continue to remind all of us in Government that
    when we see a problem, we have an obligation to do something about it,
    no matter what some

    [[Page 576]]

    may think are the short-term political consequences. I happen to believe
    that not dealing with the problem will create political consequences
    when the public realizes how serious the problem is. If you don't deal
    with the problem or you go home and say, ``I'm not dealing with the
    problem,'' there will be a political consequence.
        I've learned that lesson, as a Governor and President, that the
    people expect and respect people for setting agenda items and staying
    focused on achieving a solution to the problem. And I've set an agenda.
    I set an agenda on energy. We need an energy bill. You know, we've been
    talking about energy for 4 years. Now, I fully realize an energy bill
    reflects a longer-term strategy. But we need to--we need to do a lot of
    things.
        Eventually what we're going to have to do is change our habits,
    change the types of automobiles we drive. I believe we will have a zero-
    emission coal-fired electricity plant. I saw the--when we went to
    Cleveland--or Columbus, we saw the technology involved with that. But
    Congress needs to get me an energy bill. And it seems like to me, with
    the price of gasoline where it is, that ought to be enough this time to
    cause people to get moving on the bill. But I'll continue to push it.
        We need to get a budget. We passed--I put a pretty good budget, a
    real good budget. It helps cut the budget in half--the deficit in half
    over a 5-year period of time. Now they need to get their differences
    worked out and get it to my desk. I'll be a part of that process as
    well.
        And then, eventually, we're going to have this tax relief commission
    come forward. In other words, I have an obligation to set agenda items.
    And when I set one, I will continue to work it and remind people that we
    have a duty to deal with these problems.
        I like the debate, by the way, as an aside. I'm enjoying this. I'm
    enjoying----
        Q. Even if a lot of----
        The President. ----because I feel I got elected for a reason. My
    nature is such that, if I came to Washington and saw a problem and
    didn't deal with it, I wouldn't feel very good about myself. I want it
    to be said that George W. Bush got elected and did what he said he was
    going to do, for starters.
        You covered my campaigns. Every speech, I talked about Social
    Security. And I started talking about Social Security in the year 2000,
    because I recognized a problem coming down the road. And it is a serious
    problem, particularly if you're a younger American. You have no problem
    if you're receiving a Social Security check. I do not care--and I'm
    going to say it like you've heard me say it--it doesn't matter what the
    propagandists say, people are going to get their checks. You might
    remember the ads that they ran against me when I was running for office
    that said, ``If George W. gets elected, you're not going to get your
    check.'' I'm sure you guys analyzed those and realized that upon
    election, people got their checks, which might say something about those
    who ran the ads, right? Well, they're saying it again. They're trying to
    frighten seniors in order to stop people from coming together.
        Now, in 2001, something that has lost a little bit of the focus of
    those covering this issue, I called together the Moynihan Commission,
    and I think it might be wise for people who analyze this issue to
    refresh their memory about the Moynihan Commission, because the Moynihan
    Commission, made up of equally Democrats and Republicans, came up with
    some interesting ideas to solve this problem.
        Q. How deeply have you had to draw down on that political credit
    that you felt you had?
        The President. I think you get--I think you earn capital, you know?
    I think----
        Q. Are you spending any?
        The President. I'm spending a lot--every time I go out. [Laughter]
    But you earn capital by spending capital; that's what the

    [[Page 577]]

    people expect. We've got trips--I'll be keeping--going out, reminding
    people that there is a problem.
        And one of these days, we'll be able to look back and say, ``You
    know, we were successful convincing the American people there was a
    problem, and we were successful reminding seniors that you're not going
    to have your check taken away from you.'' And then all of a sudden, it
    becomes a true generational issue, because the grandparents receiving
    the checks, they're going to start asking, ``Now that I'm secure, what
    are you going to do for my grandkid,'' because the grandchildren are
    going to pay an enormous price. You heard those experts sit up there and
    say that if nothing happens it is likely younger workers are going to
    have to pay an 18-percent payroll tax.
        Now, I was born prior to 1950. But if I were my daughter hearing
    somebody predict that at some point in time she's paying an 18-percent
    payroll tax, I'd be suggesting to the old man--me--that I get something
    done. And that's what we're doing. We're working hard to get it done.
        Q. Are you surprised that it's taken this much work, this long----
        The President. No.
        Q. ----to make progress on this, because, you know----
        The President. No. And this is a difficult issue. I've heard Members
    say--I'm not going to tell you who they are nor what party they're from;
    I wish you hadn't have brought this up. We hear the talk out of Capitol
    Hill saying, ``Oh, darn, I wish the President had just focused only on
    the budget or maybe the energy bill.'' There are a lot of people who
    would rather not talk about this issue. I understand that. Again, I
    don't think that's part of my job description, avoid issues because it
    may be politically difficult. I think my job description is, if you see
    a problem, talk about it and work with members of both political parties
    to come up with a solution.
        And there's beginning to be some talk on Capitol Hill. But I'm not
    the least bit surprised, because it is a tough issue for Members, for
    people who've got, you know, a relatively short-term horizon, 2-year
    horizon. They're worried about--some of them are worried about
    elections. Some of them in both the House and the Senate--from both
    parties, by the way--are thinking longer term. And they're beginning to
    talk some ideas, and that's constructive.
        You know, I remember I was telling President Clinton, I remember watching one of his townhall meetings
    in Albuquerque, New Mexico, on this very subject. And I thought it was a
    very impressive presentation. By the way, a lot of the language happens
    to be pretty close to some of the townhall meetings we've had.
        But, no, I'm not surprised people want to avoid this issue.

    Travel With Former Presidents Bush and
    Clinton

        Q. What has it been like spending time with the former Presidents
    for 3 days? That's the longest time----
        The President. It's fun. Oh, it's great. You know, we share war
    stories, you know, a lot of talking, a lot of interesting experiences
    about different world leaders that we may all have met--or all three of
    us met, just different experiences that, you know, my dad might have had
    or President Clinton might have had.
        There is a lot of interest, obviously, with former Presidents about,
    you know, policy, so I had them sit in on our policy briefings this
    morning with Condi and Steve and the CIA fellow traveling with us--not this
    morning, yesterday and the day before, on Air Force One. And then
    yesterday at the Embassy, I wanted to include them in. And you know, we
    had a--these CIA briefings a lot of time prompt policy discussions, you
    know, how is this process going. Steve and Condi, now that she's here--
    both of them were able to bring Dad and President Clinton up to date on
    our strategy in dealing with a particular issue. It's interesting to

    [[Page 578]]

    get their points of view about their experiences in particular
    countries. It was fun. It was really a lot of fun. I was honored they
    came.
        Q. Are you worried about them spending so much time together, those
    two? [Laughter]
        The President. Well, you heard my gridiron speech. [Laughter]
        Listen, thank you all. Hope you enjoyed the experience as much as I
    did. Absolutely fascinating.
        By the way, I think when you discuss religion--on doubt, there is no
    doubt in my mind there is a living God and no doubt in my mind that the
    Lord, Christ, was sent by the Almighty. No doubt in my mind about that.
    When I'm talking about doubts, I'm talking about the doubts that an
    individual struggles with in his or her life. That's important for you
    to make sure you get that part of the dialog correct, if you don't mind.
        Q. Thank you.
        The President. Got it? Everybody got it correct? All right.
        Q. Thank you.

    Weekend Plans

        Q. What are your plans this weekend?
        The President. Like Stretch [Richard Keil, Bloomberg News], I'm on
    the injured reserve list from running, so I'll be mountain biking. I
    think Cat McKinnon is going come up from
    Austin. Oh, yes. And I'll be fishing. I'll be finishing my book, ``Peter
    the Great,'' by Robert K. Massie. Some of
    you old-timers have probably already read it. I'm just now--have you
    read it?
        Q. Getting ready for the next Russia trip.
        The President. Have you read it?
        Q. No.
        Q. I like when you said ``old-timer,'' and you looked at Steve
    [Steve Holland, Reuters]. [Laughter]
        The President. He probably had read it, and I wasn't going to look
    at Ann [Ann Compton, ABC News], of course, I'm too polite. [Laughter]
        We'll have briefings. Condi is coming
    to spend the night; Hadley will be
    spending a night there. We'll start briefing the Sharon visit Sunday night. And then we'll obviously greet the
    Prime Minister and then head off to Fort Hood on Tuesday morning and
    work on that speech probably Monday evening.
        Looking forward to getting back down there again. I may do a little
    cedar work--depends on how sleepy the crew is.
        Q. I'll be fishing, just down the Bosque River.
        The President. Really?
        Q. Yes. I'm sleeping at the Side Oats Ranch tonight.
        The President. Tell them hi. Middle Fork has got some water in it.
        Q. They do.
        The President. The Middle Fork comes down to my place.
        Q. Does it come down to you from his, or goes the other way?
        The President. I think it comes down, doesn't it? Yes, I think he's
    west of me, so it's coming down toward Waco. The Middle Fork feeds into
    the Brazos.
        Consider yourself lucky you get to go down to Texas.
        Q. I'm delighted.
        The President. You're not grousing about it, are you?
        Q. Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry I missed Easter. I was at home for
    that.
        The President. It may be--I hope--I haven't heard, but it may be
    that the wildflowers, are they out yet? They say there is going to be a
    spectacular bluebonnet season this year; I mean spectacular.

    2005 NCAA Women's Basketball Champions Baylor Lady Bears

        Q. Is that in honor of the Baylor women's basketball team?
        The President. I called, as a matter of fact, on the airplane flying
    to Rome, I called the coach, Kim Mulkey-Robertson, a fine person. I had met her before when

    [[Page 579]]

    she brought--you all saw her, at least if you were on the pool, right?
    Let's see--anyway, she was with the Midway girls softball team when they
    came out, the national champs softball team. Her daughter is a player on it, and so she came out with the
    parents. But she was one excited lady. And she did a heck of a job.
        Q. Blew them out.
        The President. They've got a great team. I'm looking forward to
    welcoming them to the White House.

    Note: The interview began at 8:29 a.m. en route from Rome, Italy, to the
    Bush Ranch in Crawford, TX. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Lt. Gen. William E. Ward, USA, Senior U.S. Security Coordinator,
    Department of State; President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the
    Palestinian Authority; Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jafari and President
    Jalal Talabani of the Iraqi Transitional Government; President Jacques
    Chirac of France and his wife, Bernadette; former President Lech Walesa
    of Poland; Theodore E. Cardinal McCarrick, Archbishop of Washington;
    U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, nominee to be U.S.
    Ambassador to Iraq; James Jeffrey, Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy
    in Iraq; Gen. George W. Casey, Jr., USA, commanding general, Multi-
    National Force--Iraq; Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom;
    John D. Negroponte, nominee to be Director of National Intelligence;
    National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley; and Kim Mulkey-Robertson,
    head coach, Baylor University's women's basketball team. He also
    referred to the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform and the
    President's Commission to Strengthen Social Security (Moynihan
    Commission). A tape was not available for verification of the content of
    this interview.