[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book II)]
[July 14, 2004]
[Pages 1316-1338]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Remarks in a Discussion at Mid-States Aluminum Corporation in Fond du 
Lac, Wisconsin
July 14, 2004

    The President. Thank you all very much. Thanks for coming. I 
appreciate you. Please be seated. Thanks. Thanks for coming to say hi. 
Thanks for having me. It's great to be here in Fond du Lac. We're here--
I'm going to talk about how I intend to make sure America is a safer and 
stronger and better country. That's what I want to talk about today. 
Tell you why we're here at a business, it's because this is a business 
that is successful. And I'm going to talk about why I think it is 
successful.
    But I also want to answer some of your questions, too. So I'll try 
to keep my remarks relatively short--which is kind of hard to do. 
[Laughter] First, I regret that Laura is not 
traveling with me.
    Audience members. Aw-w-w!
    The President. I know it; yes, most people react that way. 
[Laughter] It's kind of like, why didn't you stay home and let her come instead? [Laughter] I'm a lucky man that--you 
know, she was a public school librarian in Midland, Texas. And I asked 
her to--when I asked her to marry me, fortunately, she said yes. And 
she's a great First Lady. She's done a terrific job. You know, I like to 
tell people that perhaps the best reason to put me back in there is so 
she'll have 4 more years as the First Lady. I'm sorry she's not with me. 
I love to campaign with her, but, fortunately, one of our daughters, 
Barbara, is traveling with me today. I want 
to thank you for coming, Barbara. Thanks for coming. Go ahead and stand 
up. Thank you. It's truly a lot of fun to travel your beautiful State on 
a bus and have Barbara by my side.
    I also want to thank my friend Tommy Thompson for serving our country so well. Thank you, T. [Applause] 
They still remember you. [Laughter] He's done a great job. I've given 
him a tough assignment--I mean a really tough assignment--and he has 
done it with a lot of class and dignity. I like to say the people of 
Wisconsin trained him well. [Laughter] But thanks for your service, T. I 
appreciate it very much.
    I want to thank the Colwins and all the folks here at Mid-States for inviting me. 
It's kind of a pain to have the President come. [Laughter] The 
entourages seem to be a little bigger as time goes on, and I know it's 
hard to accommodate the crowd.

[[Page 1317]]

But thank you a lot. I hope our people were polite. Yes, I hope so, 
because if not, they're not going to be working for me. But thanks for 
your hospitality. We'll talk a little bit about Joe's business here in a 
second. I particularly want to thank the employees for giving us a 
little time and space here to visit about issues that matter to the 
country.
    I want to thank all the grassroots activists who are here. Those are 
the political people who do your duty. We have a duty in this country to 
vote. And I want to thank you for encouraging people to vote. Thank you 
for registering people. Thank you for garnering the vote and turning it 
out. And when you get them to turn out, you might kind of give them a 
nudge our way. [Laughter]
    I've got some things I want to do. I'm here in this State asking for 
the vote. There's more to do to make sure America is a safer place and a 
stronger place and a better place.
    My biggest job is to make sure America remains a safe place. That's 
the most important responsibility I have as your President. And it's a 
task at hand because we face an enemy which has a dim view of the world, 
and it's an enemy which hates America because of our love for freedom. 
These are people that you just cannot reason with. You can't negotiate 
with them. Therapy is not going to work with them. [Laughter] They're 
coldblooded people. That's the way they are. And we have a solemn 
responsibility to the American people to bring them to justice. We must 
deal with them in foreign lands so we do not have to face them here at 
home. That's our job. That's our responsibility. That's our most solemn 
duty, is to protect the homeland.
    I want you to know there are a lot of good people working hard to 
protect America. You've heard about the threats. They're real. These 
people are--these people are still--lurk. And we've got to be correct 
100 percent of the time in America, and they've got to be right once. 
That's the challenge at hand. And we got a lot of really good people--I 
mean good people--working hard, long hours to run down any threat, to 
uncover suspicious activities to protect us. And I know you'll join me 
in thanking the first-responders all across this State and all across 
our country, our police and fire and emergency teams.
    And the best way to protect America is to stay on the offense and 
use every resource we have at our disposal to bring people to justice. 
That's the short-term strategy. And that's what we're doing, and that's 
what I will continue to do as your President. I'm not going to be 
shaken. I'm not going to have my vision clouded. I know exactly the job 
we need to do.
    About two-thirds of known Al Qaida leadership has been brought to 
justice. And that's positive, and that's good news. There's still others 
that are out there. And that's why we're working with other nations to 
share intelligence, to cut off their money, and to get them, bring them 
to justice.
    Now, the other thing about being the President is when you say 
something, you better mean it. One thing that's important about this 
job--so when I said, ``If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty 
as the terrorist,'' I meant it. In other words, part of making America 
is secure is to deny the terrorists safe haven. And that's why I said to 
the Taliban--those are the folks that were running Afghanistan at the 
time--``Give up your--give up Al Qaida. Get rid of the terrorists 
camps.'' They defied us. And so we sent a coalition of troops led by a 
fantastic United States military to liberate the people of Afghanistan.
    It's hard work. It's not easy work. But America has done hard things 
in the past. And this is necessary work. And I want you to think about 
Afghanistan today, 3 years--compared to what it was 3 years ago. Three 
years ago, we had people living in a country run by barbaric, dim-viewed 
ideologues, so backwards that they wouldn't let young girls go to 
school; so backwards

[[Page 1318]]

that they would whip women in public; so backwards that if you had a 
view different from their own, you would face serious consequences. 
That's the country--and so weak that they were becoming infested by Al 
Qaida.
    Today, Afghanistan has got a strong President. They're going to have 
elections this fall for the Presidency. Young girls are going to school. 
The country is being rebuilt, and we've got an ally in the war on 
terror.
    Another lesson of September the 11th is that this country must deal 
with threats before they fully materialize. In other words, before, we 
could say--before September the 11th, it was assumed that when we saw a 
threat, you know, we may have to deal with it, may not have to deal with 
it, because we never dreamt the threats would actually come to our own 
homeland. Now, we know the nature of the enemy, and we know the capacity 
of the enemy. And therefore, when we see a threat, we've got to deal 
with it.
    First choice is diplomatically. That's the first choice the--any 
President must do--is say, ``Let's see if we can't convince a country, 
for example, to change its ways.'' I saw a threat in Iraq. I'll tell you 
why I saw the threat in Iraq. First, they had a leader that hated 
America, a declared enemy of this country. 
Secondly, they had attacked their neighbors. Thirdly, they had used 
weapons of mass destruction on their own people. Fourthly, there were 
terrorist connections inside of Iraq; I mean, there was terrorist 
organizations. For example, Abu Nidal was a known terrorist, and his 
organization found safe haven there in Iraq, as has other people. A guy 
named Zarqawi, whose name is in the 
news--there was a car bomb today in Baghdad. I suspect Zarqawi ordered 
it. I don't know, but that's the nature of Zarqawi. See, he'll kill 
anybody, anywhere, anytime to try to create fear and confusion.
    At any rate, we looked at the intelligence presented to us, and we 
saw a threat. Now, I want you to remember that the United States 
Congress looked at the very same intelligence--members of both political 
parties looked at the intelligence, and they saw a threat. We remember 
the lesson of September the 11th. We knew threats must be dealt with 
before they fully materialize, and we saw a threat. The U.N. Security 
Council looked at the same intelligence, and it saw a threat.
    Now, you might remember, in September of 2002, I went to the United 
Nations. I said, ``You've called the man a threat over and over again. 
You've had resolution after resolution after resolution after 
resolution. We hope you don't become an empty debating society; we hope 
your word means something.'' So--and they listened. And we passed 
another resolution on a 15-to-nothing vote. In other words, nations of 
the world came together and said to Saddam Hussein, ``Disclose, disarm, or face serious consequences.'' 
And that's the history. In other words, we put together a--we tried to 
convince him diplomatically. So the word spoke--world spoke, and we 
said, ``Let inspectors go in and see whether or not he's conforming to 
the request of the free world.'' And history has shown that he was 
deceiving. There was a systematic deception, campaign of deception going 
on. In other words, we knew that he was deceiving the inspectors, and we 
wondered why. What did he have to hide? What did the man who had used 
weapons of mass destruction, what did the man who declared his hatred 
for America, have to hide?
    In other words, I had a choice to make at this point in time in 
history: Do I forget the lessons of September the 11th and hope for the 
best? Do I trust the actions of a madman? Or do I take the action 
necessary to defend America? And given that choice, I will defend our 
country every single time.
    It's been hard work; it's been really hard work. And we've lost 
brave troops, and we mourn for every troop. And in order to make sure 
that those who have sacrificed

[[Page 1319]]

for a better world and a safer America, to make sure their sacrifice 
means something, we will complete our mission in Iraq. Because a free 
Iraq is in this country's interests. A free Iraq in the heart of the 
Middle East is in the interests of the United States of America. It's in 
our security interests that freedom take hold in a part of the world 
where there's hopelessness and resentment--the ingredients necessary for 
the enemy to attract terrorists, killers. That's what we want.
    See, the long-term solution in this fight against an ideology that 
is opposite of ours is to spread democracy and freedom. That's the long-
term solution. And that's what you're seeing taking place. The world is 
changing because of the leadership of the United States of America. 
Think about the world 3 years ago. Afghanistan was troubled; it's now 
free. We got a great leader in Iraq named Prime Minister Allawi. He's a tough guy, and he believes in the hopes and 
aspirations of the Iraqi people. And Iraq is going to be a free society, 
and what an example that will serve. Imagine people looking--in the 
neighborhood and saying, ``Gosh, they actually listen to what I think. I 
have a chance to raise my child in a relatively peaceful society. I 
don't have to be brutalized by a tyrant all the time.''
    Let me tell you this quick story about why I feel so strongly about 
what we have done and we're doing. Seven men came to see me in the Oval 
Office. First of all, coming into the Oval Office is a pretty powerful 
experience. And it's such a nice place, I'd like to stay there for a 
while. [Laughter] Anyway--you know why? You can get positive things done 
for the country and the world. That's the only reason to hold the 
office, is to lead the country toward a better tomorrow.
    Anyway, these guys come in--seven of them--all seven had had their 
right hands chopped off by Saddam Hussein. 
You know why? Because his currency had been devalued, and he needed 
somebody to blame. That's what tyrants do. And he blamed these seven 
small-business men. You say, why these seven? Well, I'll tell you. One 
guy, for example, sold dinars to get dollars to buy gold so he could 
make jewelry. And so I guess they must have looked at who was selling 
Iraqi currency to cause this--to blame the people for the cause of the 
devaluation. Anyway, not only were their right hands cut off, they had 
X's in their heads carved by their--by the Saddam boys.
    Fortunately for them, there was a movie made about their plight, and 
the movie was seen by a guy in Houston, Texas, named Marvin 
Zindler, Big 2 News. He was--if you've ever 
lived in Houston, you can't escape Marvin Zindler. He's a great 
American, is what he is. He's a news guy who started a foundation at 
some point in his career to help others. And he flew them to Houston, 
Texas, and they had new hands fitted, the latest prosthesis. And they're 
coming, now, to the Oval Office. And they walk in this fantastic place--
I mean, they were overwhelmed with emotion. A guy said, ``Thank you.'' I 
said, ``You don't need to thank me. You need to thank the American 
people; that's who you need to thank. You need to thank the people that 
understand the great power of freedom and liberty to transform lives.''
    It was a wonderful contrast, wasn't it, the contrast between a 
compassionate nation that believes in the worth of each individual as 
opposed to a nation run by a tyrant who's 
willing to chop somebody's hand off because he had a bad day. And that's 
what we've changed. We've changed that dynamic in the world. People in 
that part of the world are going to see a hopeful tomorrow when they see 
a free Iraq emerge. Three years ago, nobody would have dreamed that a 
democracy would be rising in Iraq. Today, a democracy is rising in Iraq, 
and America will stand with those democrats until the job is complete.
    Just a couple of other points I want to make to you about how this 
administration is leading the world to make it a safer

[[Page 1320]]

place for all of us. Pakistan was a place where terrorists could--where 
they had--Pakistan was the only country, by the way, that recognized the 
Taliban at the time, and Al Qaida could move freely throughout Pakistan. 
This is 3 years ago. Today, the Pakistan Government is determined to 
rout out Al Qaida out of their country. We've got an ally in the war on 
terror in Pakistan.
    Saudi Arabia--there wasn't much pressure on Al Qaida 3 years ago. 
Today, Saudi Arabian Government is focused on making sure the Al Qaida 
leadership and other terrorists are brought to justice. They're now an 
ally in the war on terror.
    Libya--Libya was a country which had terrorist ties and was 
developing weapons programs, which we discovered, and made it clear to 
the Libyan leader that there 
was a better alternative to developing weapons of mass destruction. 
Because the United States speaks clearly and means what it says, he got 
the message and is now disarming. As a matter of fact, I was in Oak 
Ridge, Tennessee, the other day looking at a lot of the processing 
equipment we had brought back to the United States of America. Three 
years ago, Libya was dangerous; today, Libya has disarmed.
    No, the world is changing because the United States of America is 
leading. And there's more to do. There's more work to be done. If you 
give me 4 more years, America will be a safer place because the world 
will be a freer place. I'm running again because I want America to be a 
stronger and better country as well.
    Let me start first with ``better.'' We're a better country when we 
educate every child. The No Child Left Behind Act is a great piece of 
reform. It said we'll spend more Federal money, but in return, we expect 
results. That seems like a reasonable thing to ask, isn't it? We want to 
know whether or not our children can read and write and add and 
subtract. That shouldn't be that hard a question. Are you able to teach 
a child how to read at the third-grade level, and if not, what are you 
going to do to change so that child can read at the third-grade level?
    I'll tell you what we've done. We've raised the bar because I 
believe every child can learn to read and write and add and subtract. 
We're challenging what I call the soft bigotry of low expectations. In 
other words, if you believe certain children can't learn, they won't. 
It's just as simple as that. If you've got low expectations, you're 
going to receive--you'll achieve mediocre results.
    The No Child Left Behind Act has got great faith in the local folks 
to chart the path to excellence. It's got strong sense of 
accountability, and it raises the bar. A better America is an America in 
which every child receives an education early, before it is too late. 
It's precisely what this administration will continue to push for.
    A better America is an America that understands the strength of the 
country is in the hearts and souls of the American citizens. That's 
where our strength lies. I've talked about our military; I'm going to 
keep it strong. You're about to hear me talk about our economy, which is 
strong and getting stronger. But that's not the true strength. The true 
strength of this country is the fact there are thousands and thousands 
of fellow citizens who love a neighbor just like they would like to be 
loved themselves, and it doesn't require a Federal law.
    That's why my Faith- and Community-Based Initiative is a vital part 
of a better America. In other words, I need to be your President for 4 
more years to continue to rally the armies of compassion, which exist 
all across the State of Wisconsin.
    Let me give you an example: If you happen to be hooked on alcohol or 
drugs, you need help. And sometimes you can get the right help from a 
counselor, a government-sponsored counselor--nothing wrong with that, by 
the way. But sometimes--as a matter of fact, a lot of times, in order to 
change your ways, you have to change your heart. In other words, if you 
change your heart, you're more likely to change your

[[Page 1321]]

habits. Government is not love. Government is law and justice. Love 
comes from our religious congregations of all faiths, people have heard 
the call to love a neighbor. And therefore, when we're talking about how 
to help people get off drugs or alcohol, this Government of ours and 
this country of ours must not fear welcoming faith-based programs into 
the delivery of services which will help lives. We ought not to fear 
faith in America; we ought to welcome faith. [Applause] Thank you. Thank 
you all.
    Finally--I'm watching closely to make sure somebody doesn't fall 
out; I might get speaking too long--[laughter]. Finally, a stronger 
America starts with making sure we've got a place where people can find 
work--good, solid jobs. That's what a stronger America--when you hear me 
say ``safer, strong, and better,'' I'm talking stronger--means a place 
where people can find a job and do their duty as a mom or a dad to 
provide for their family. That's what I'm most interested in when I talk 
about stronger America.
    We are a strong America. Let me tell you what we've been through. 
Let me remind you right quick. We have been through a recession; that's 
when things go backwards. Ask any small-business owner what it's like to 
try to run a business in a recession, and they'll tell you it's 
difficult. It's hard, hard work.
    We start coming out of recession, and the enemy hit us. And it 
affected our economy. The attacks of September the 11th affected our 
economy; it just did. It affected our way of thinking about how we must 
defend ourselves, and it affected the economy. You might remember, banks 
closed down, airplanes couldn't fly. I mean, a lot happened that rippled 
throughout our economy, that cost people their jobs.
    And then, just as we were recovering from that--listen, we are a 
resilient country, and the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well 
here, which I think makes us really unique in the world. And then we 
found out we had some of our citizens who did not tell the truth, some 
of our corporate citizens. And that shook us; make no mistake about it. 
When you're in an economy that requires good accounting--good, honest 
accounting--and you find out that some of them fudged the numbers, it 
affected our confidence; it just did. We passed tough laws. You're now 
seeing on your TV screens that people are now being brought to justice, 
because we're not going to tolerate dishonesty in the boardrooms of 
America in order to make sure--[applause].
    And finally, you heard me talk about the decisions I made in order 
to make America a safer place. When you hear on your TV screens 
``America is marching to war,'' it's difficult to make investment. It's 
a negative thought. I know that. In other words, people need to be 
optimistic. If they're going to invest, they need to be optimistic. And 
it wasn't optimistic times for a while. I know that. But we've overcome 
all that. Why do I say that? Because our economy is growing, and it's 
growing strong. And right here in Wisconsin, you've got a 5.1-percent 
unemployment rate. That means people are working. That's way below the 
national average. This economy is ginning here. There's more to do, but 
it is strong.
    I think one of the reasons why is because of the tax relief we 
passed. And we're going to talk about some of that tax relief right 
quick. Let me just remind you what was in the tax relief package. If 
you're--first of all, we said, ``If you pay taxes, you're going to get 
relief.'' In other words, everybody that pays taxes should get tax 
relief. To me, that's the most fair way to do things, not try to kind of 
pick and choose winners in the Tax Code. The best way to provide 
fairness in tax relief is to reduce the rates of everybody who pays. And 
that's what happened, as you recall.
    Secondly, we raised the child credit. If you're a mom or dad, you 
get a little extra tax relief. Thirdly, we reduced the marriage penalty. 
It's kind of a strange Tax Code

[[Page 1322]]

that penalizes marriage. We're trying to encourage the opposite here in 
America. We want people to be married, and to penalize marriage doesn't 
make much sense.
    We created a 10-percent tax bracket. We provide expensing deductions 
for new small businesses. In other words, we said, ``If you invest, you 
get to write off more money.'' In other words, you save more money. We 
said to small businesses, ``We want you to invest.''
    But I want you to understand something very important in this Tax 
Code, in these tax cuts. By far, the majority of small businesses pay 
taxes at the individual income-tax rate. You see, they're called 
Subchapter S corporations. Like all the people who work here at Mid-
States, you're working for a Subchapter S corporation. And they pay tax 
at the individual income rate. So do sole proprietorships. So when you 
hear me talking about cutting individual income taxes, we also cut the 
taxes on thousands of small businesses too. And you know why? Most small 
businesses create--most new jobs are created by small businesses in 
America. That's the reality. And therefore, if you want people going 
back to work, you've got to stimulate the small-business sector.
    And now, Joe's business right here is a 
Subchapter S corporation. Joe, why don't you stand up again? He's the 
president and CEO. First of all, this is Joe's business. Now, you notice 
he said ``associates,'' because he's a great CEO. He makes sure 
everybody understands. But he's the guy that put up the money. That's 
what we want in America, by the way. We want people owning things. We 
want people owning their own homes. The homeownership rate in America is 
at an alltime high. That's fantastic news for our country. People own 
something, they have a stake in the future of the country.
    And so, Joe, thanks for inviting us to your 
business. Tell us what you do.

[At this point, the discussion continued.]

    The President. Let me tell you something. Why--why did you hire 73 
people? Just to be a nice guy?
    Joe Colwin. Because we're continuing to grow.
    The President. There you go. The markets are growing. This is 
happening all across the country. Small businesses--did the tax cuts 
help? I'm kind of like a lawyer--I'm not one, you'll be happy to hear--
nothing wrong with a good lawyer, don't get me wrong. I'm leading the 
witness. [Laughter] Did the tax cuts help? He's a 
Subchapter S corporation. In other words, we cut his taxes. Why? Because 
if he's got more money in his pocket, he's going to plow it back into 
the business, which means you're likely to keep your work. In this case, 
73 more people found a job; that's what's important.
    Mr. Colwin. Yes, sir. [Laughter] Pretty 
simple math.
    The President. It helps. Tax relief helps.
    Mr. Colwin. It does.
    The President. Now, are you going to make investments this year?
    Mr. Colwin. We're going to continue to make 
investments this year. We are going to make a minimum investment of $1.6 
million in continued fabrication equipment. And in this room here, we 
are going to invest in excess of $6 million.
    The President. Wow, that's good.
    Mr. Colwin. And that's 14 million----
    The President. Yes, let me explain what that means. See, that's 
really good news. But let me tell you what investment really means. 
He just said he's going to buy fabricating 
equipment.
    Mr. Colwin. That's correct.
    The President. Yes. Somebody has got to make it. See, when you hear 
him say, ``I'm going to invest,'' that means he's 
purchasing something. And somebody has got to make that. One of your 
fellow workers is going to have to make that in another place, which 
means that person is more likely to keep a job. It may be a new hire, 
see. In other words, his investment may

[[Page 1323]]

be that which is necessary for the person to hire somebody else. It may 
just be that extra product that this particular company has to make in 
order to meet his demand that encourages them to hire somebody else. I 
don't know who you're buying it from. It would be a good chance to put a 
plug in for them. [Laughter]
    Mr. Colwin. It's all over--it's all over.
    The President. Well, that's important. And see, what you need to 
hear--look at and think about is the amount of investment that's taking 
place in America, because there's a lot of decisionmakers like 
Joe. Joe just told us he's going to invest at 
least a million six in new plant and equipment. There's a lot of Joes 
all over America making that same decision. And that's how the economy 
grows. And the tax relief plan we passed said to Joe: ``We're going to 
help you make the decision, because if you make the decision to buy 
plant and equipment this year, you get a little extra tax break.'' Isn't 
that right, Joe?
    Mr. Colwin. That's correct.
    The President. Now, you're supposed to be doing more talking than I 
am. [Laughter] It's your business. [Laughter] Let me tell you something. 
It's got to do your heart good to hear an entrepreneur who's confident 
enough to say, ``I've hired people, and I'm investing.'' That's what 
we've got to hear. That's what's happening all over America.
    Good job, buddy. Yes, sir. Thanks.
    And so some questions you've got to ask in this campaign is, who 
understands that the role of Government is not to create wealth but to 
create an environment so small businesses grow? Now, you're going to 
hear talk in this campaign about, ``Well, I'm going to increase the 
Federal spending, but don't worry, I'm going to pay for it by taxing the 
rich.'' We've heard that kind of language a lot in American politics. 
But I'm here for a reason. I want you to understand who ``the rich'' is. 
It's the people who work in this company, because when you're talking 
taxing the rich on the individual income-tax rates, you're raising taxes 
on Subchapter S corporations. And if this company has less money in its 
pocket, you're less likely to keep a job and have the benefits you 
expect for your families.
    People need to be aware of this talk out of Washington, DC, that 
says, ``Oh, don't worry, we're just going to tax the rich.'' That's not 
the way it works in the Tax Code. The big rich dodge taxes, anyway. It's 
companies like this who end up paying more taxes, and that would be 
wrong for our economy. We need to make sure these tax cuts we've passed 
are permanent and that Congress doesn't raise the taxes.
    A couple other points I want to make about making sure Joe feels comfortable investing. We've got too many junk and 
frivolous lawsuits that threaten jobs in America. We need legal reform 
in this country; I'm telling you. Yes, the small-business people, what 
worries them--I'll tell you what worries them: trying to fight off a 
junk lawsuit in court. And Congress has got a role to play. We need 
class-action reform, for example. And yet, the Senate is controlled by 
the lawyers, and we can't get it out. I'm going to continue working for 
it. I think it's necessary to make sure this is a place for people to be 
able to find work; that is, reform is necessary.
    I'll tell you what else is necessary is medical liability reform. 
One of the things that--one of the--I hear it from small businesses all 
the time: ``I'm having trouble making sure my people working with me get 
good health care.'' The costs are going up. That's why we've got what we 
call associate health care plans. This will enable people to pool risk 
across jurisdictional boundaries so small businesses have got the 
capacity to buy insurance like big businesses do. In other words, if 
you're able to spread risk, you get a better deal for your employees. Or 
health savings accounts--these are tax-free alternatives to the Federal 
Government running the

[[Page 1324]]

health care system, which I am absolutely against.
    Let me tell you what else is a problem: these frivolous and junk 
lawsuits against the doctors. Listen, if you get hurt, you ought to have 
your day in court. Make no mistake about it. Nobody is saying you 
shouldn't. But when there's lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit by some 
lawyer trying to hit the jackpot, we've got a problem. Because guess 
what's happening? These docs are having to pay higher premiums, which 
means you're having to pay higher rates. And a lot of docs have just had 
it. They're tired of practicing medicine.
    There can be balance in the system. There can be fairness in the 
legal system. And you need a President who understands that. I'm going 
to continue to make--to battle for medical liability reform at the 
Federal level so people have got access to good and affordable health 
care.
    Two other points I want to make, then we're going to talk to Tim 
Rice. Loosen up, buddy. [Laughter] Two other 
points. You can't run a business if you don't know if you're going to 
have reliable energy supplies. That's just the way it is. For this 
country to keep jobs here at home, we've got to make sure we're the best 
place in the world to invest capital and do business. And until we get 
an energy policy, there's going to be doubt in the minds of the 
investors. I'll tell you why. If you're a manufacturer and you're 
worried about the reliability of electricity, you're not going to be 
confident in investing in the future. If you're worried about the cost 
of natural gas, it's going to make you less willing to invest.
    I submitted a plan to the United States Congress that says we'll do 
a better job of conserving energy--and we need to do that, and we will--
we need to look for alternative sources of energy, and we're doing that. 
And we need to make sure that we--but we need to make sure we use our 
energy sources at home in a wise way. We can burn coal in clean ways. We 
can explore for natural gas in environmentally friendly ways. If we 
expect people to work here in America, if we expect for this to be a 
place where people are willing to invest capital--people like Joe--we 
need to have an energy strategy that makes us less dependent on foreign 
sources of energy.
    And finally, I know there's a lot of talk about trade, and there 
should be. It's an important discussion. But let me remind you, just to 
make sure you put the facts in perspective here. America has opened up 
its markets for years. Presidents from both political parties said it's 
a good thing for our consumers to have more products coming into the 
United States. You know why? If consumers have more choices, consumers 
are going to get better quality at better price. That's how the 
marketplace works. And so we've been a country that said, ``Sure, come 
on, sell your goods here, compete.'' The more competition it is for your 
demand, the better deal you're going to get. That's just the way it is 
in the marketplace. ``Please come and compete.''
    The problem is, we haven't said the same thing to other countries. 
In other words, the job of the President--and this is exactly what I'm 
doing--is to say, ``Our market is open. You open yours.'' All I'm saying 
is, give our workers and farmers and ranchers and manufacturers and 
entrepreneurs a level playing field, and we can compete with anybody, 
anytime, anyplace.
    I'm running to make America a stronger place, and I've got a vision 
as to how to make sure this is the best place for the Joe Colwins of 
America to succeed and, therefore, his associates to succeed with him. 
That's what this is all about.
    Now let me introduce you to Tim Rice. Tim, 
thanks for coming. Tim is a guy who works here at Mid-States, right? How 
long have you worked here for, Tim?
    Tim Rice. I started in May, sir, following 
graduation from the University of Wisconsin.
    The President. Congratulations on getting out of college. 
Barbara just graduated too.

[[Page 1325]]

    Mr. Rice. Thank you, sir.
    The President. He started in May. It's a pretty 
good sign, isn't it? The economy is growing; otherwise he wouldn't be 
starting in May. He might have been starting in May of 1997.
    And so, what were you doing before?
    Mr. Rice. Prior to that, I spent 4 years in the 
United States Air Force, active duty, and then went to school.
    The President. Thanks, yes. I know I'm prying into your business, 
but are you making more money now than you were?
    Mr. Rice. Absolutely. [Laughter]
    The President. That's good. Like, one dollar more? Two times more?
    Mr. Rice. Two times more.
    The President. Yes, he's making two times more 
money. What he did was he got an education and found a higher-paying 
job. Let me tell you, the reason I want--this is an interesting story--
is because there is a direct corollary between higher wages and 
education. We're going to talk about what it means to have--be retrained 
for the jobs of the 21st century in a minute. But it's essential for our 
country to understand that the job base is changing as our economy 
changes, and that requires people to get education. And one of the 
focuses of my administration has been and will continue to be to make 
sure people are trained for the jobs of the 21st century.
    Now, Tim went back to college, a 4-year degree, 
and now he makes double what he was making before. People have got to 
understand that means he's a more productive worker, and he's ready for 
the new jobs. Let me tell you something about Tim. He saved $2,400 in 
tax relief in '03, 2,400 in '04--is that correct?
    Mr. Rice. That's correct.
    The President. And so, like, what are you doing with all that money? 
[Laughter]
    Mr. Rice. I spent 7 years working and going to 
school before I graduated. I didn't see a lot of my family. I was able 
to take 3 months off of work before I graduated just to go to school and 
spend time with my family.
    The President. That's good. If you're a dad, your most important 
responsibility is to love your children with all your heart and your 
soul. That's what he just told us; isn't it? I 
thank you for that.
    Let me tell you something about this tax relief plan. The reason 
I've saved these examples for the end, it's important to know that parts 
of this tax relief are going to expire. And the reason I've asked 
Tim and Deb and others 
to come is because the Members of Congress and the Senate sometimes 
forget that when we're talking about tax relief, we're actually talking 
about it affecting people's pocketbooks in a positive way. See, I know 
that 2,400 doesn't sound like a lot to some of them in Washington. Ask 
Tim if it's a lot. I asked him. And he said, ``You bet it's a lot.'' And 
if they don't pass tax relief, his tax burden is going to go up by 
$1,100. In other words, that's $1,100 less money in his pocket for he 
and his family to decide what to do with it.
    Here's what I think about tax relief. I think you set priorities. I 
think you're wise with the people's money. But I think you've got to 
understand that Tim can spend his money far better than the Federal 
Government can.
    Thanks for coming. Go ahead. Thanks, Tim.
    Deb Winterhack is with us. All right, 
Deb. Let her go.
    Deb Winterhack. Hi.
    The President. Married?
    Mrs. Winterhack. Married.
    The President. How many children?
    Mrs. Winterhack. I have three--one in 
college, one on their way to college.
    The President. See, I told her I thought 
she was fooling me when she told me. [Laughter]
    Mrs. Winterhack. Yes, well, I feel it. 
[Laughter]
    The President. Are they here?

[[Page 1326]]

    Mrs. Winterhack. No, they're at 
Williamsport Baseball Tournament.
    The President. Really?
    Mrs. Winterhack. Yes, starts today.
    The President. You're a Little League mom?
    Mrs. Winterhack. I'm a Little League mom.
    The President. I was raised by a Little League mom. [Laughter] The difference is, is that my mother's 
hair turned white. [Laughter]
    Mrs. Winterhack. Mine probably did too. 
[Laughter]
    The President. No, no. All right, tell us what you do and what you 
were doing. She works----
    Mrs. Winterhack. I'm at--I'm an 
admissions director here at Fond du Lac at ManorCare, HCR ManorCare. 
Previously, I was a web technology salesperson in Beaverton, Wisconsin, 
so totally took my web technology to--totally out in left field to 
health care. So I just wanted to get into health care. I just loved it.
    The President. Yes, let me tell you something about health care. I'm 
sorry to interrupt, and you can tell us how you got into health care. 
[Laughter]
    Mrs. Winterhack. That's okay.
    The President. We haven't rehearsed this too well--[laughter].
    Mrs. Winterhack. No, I just met him. 
[Laughter]
    The President. She's doing the fox trot, 
and I'm doing the twist. [Laughter] Anyway--they still do the twist? 
[Laughter] I know, a little odd. There's a lot of jobs in health care. I 
remember going down to North Carolina where there's--where the textile 
industry reigned, and then the textile industry couldn't compete. People 
started losing jobs in the textile industry. But guess what happened? 
The health industry started to expand--better-paying jobs. And the 
challenge in this case in North Carolina and the challenge elsewhere is 
going to be to take people who have got one set of skills and train them 
for the jobs that now exist. That's the real challenge.
    I am a big backer of the community college system in America. And I 
think we ought to help people go to community colleges to train for the 
jobs of the 21st century. Community colleges provide education that is 
accessible and affordable. And guess what happens at community colleges? 
They change their curriculum to meet the needs of the times. And that's 
what we're going to continue to use community colleges for in a wise 
way.
    What happened with you?

[Mrs. Winterhack made further remarks.]

    The President. See, a lot of corporations do the responsible thing 
and train people for the jobs--they took Deb--she was obviously a smart person and capable person and 
motivated person. What Government can't do is say, ``Deb, go motivate 
yourself.'' That's up to you. That's something Government cannot do. She 
wanted to improve her salary.
    Mrs. Winterhack. The salary went up quite 
a bit, so--well, $8,000. So that was a great jump for me.
    The President. She became a productive 
worker for the jobs which now exist and are expanding. If people are 
looking for work, think about the health care industry. Now, you're 
going to have to go back and get some schooling. But there's help all 
across our Government. There's all kinds of assistance to help people 
get reeducated, and that's a good use of taxpayers' money, by the way.
    The thing about Deb is, is that--two 
things happened to her: One, she retrained and gets more money; and two, 
the tax relief came along, which means she's got more after-tax money in 
her pocket. She's got more of her own money to spend. And if Congress 
does not make the tax relief permanent, she's paying an increase of $900 
next year, and that doesn't make any sense.

[[Page 1327]]

    So thanks for coming. You got anything else you want to say? Here's 
your chance.
    Mrs. Winterhack. Four more years. 
[Laughter]
    The President. That's good. Thank you. Glad I called on you. 
[Laughter]
    All right, we've got Mark and Wendy 
Bodden, the last family that's with us. Thanks 
for coming. We're honored you all are here. Who do you got with you?

[The discussion continued.]

    The President. The reasons I've asked the 
Boddens here--here again, this is an example of 
what I'm talking about, why tax relief matters. You see, a lot of times 
they throw around numbers in Washington, but they forget the stories 
behind the numbers. I've asked them to come because I want the Members 
of the United States Senate and the Congress to understand the effects 
of bad policy on these people. It's bad policy to be raising their taxes 
right now. You can find every excuse in the book, believe me--this needs 
to happen, that needs to happen, this, that, or the other. I think it's 
important that they have enough money so that they're able to realize 
their dreams.
    It's not unrealistic. We've got plenty of money in Washington. 
Listen, we can reduce our deficit in half if we're wise--over 5 years--
if we're wise about how you spend--we spend your money. We can reduce 
the deficit in half and still fund the war on terror and protect the 
homeland. We just can't meet every single political promise that people 
feel comfortable throwing out. And it's a dangerous time--it's an 
election year--and you're going to hear every promise in the book. 
That's what you're going to hear.
    If these people saved--how much did you save in '03 and '04?
    Mr. Bodden. I believe it was $1,700.
    The President. Yes--$1,700 in '03, $1,700 in '04. Now, that's like 
extra money. So what did you do?
    Mr. Bodden. Well, it's very important to us 
that our children attend a Catholic school for education, and we put it 
into tuition.
    The President. Did you? Good. That's good.
    Mr. Bodden. Very happy. Thank you for that.
    The President. That's a wise use of extra money, isn't it, educating 
your children. By the way, if Congress doesn't respond, the child credit 
is going down, the marriage penalty is going up, and the 10-percent 
bracket is gone, which means these people are going to have to pay $700 
additional tax. In other words, the tax burden goes up by $700. That 
doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense from an economic perspective. 
See, the more money you have in your pocket, the more you're going to 
spend. And when you spend it, you ask for an additional good or a 
service. You heard what Joe--Joe feels confident 
he's going to spend additional. So are other consumers with more money 
in their pocket.
    It also doesn't make sense because these people are saving for their 
kids' education. They're paying for their kids' education. Congress must 
listen to the voices of people like Mark and 
Wendy. Got any voice to tell Congress? 
[Laughter]
    Mr. Bodden. We appreciate the extra money. 
[Laughter]
    The President. Yes, well, that's good. I want to thank you for 
coming. The reason I've asked these good folks to come--thanks for 
coming--is I just wanted to make it--I just wanted people to have a 
sense for why I made the decisions I made and ask Congress to join me--a 
sense for how to make America a stronger place. I understand how this 
economy works, and I've got great faith in the entrepreneurs and 
consumers of our country. And I believe that the consumers make better 
decisions, oftentimes, than the Government makes. And that's why the tax 
relief package came at the right time. And that's why it's important to 
reject raising taxes on people right now.

[[Page 1328]]

    In order to make sure America is a stronger place, we've got to have 
good, sound tax policy. Joe needs certainty in 
the Tax Code. We need good legal reform, good health care, good trade 
policy. Most of all, you need to have a President who understands that 
the role of Government is not to create wealth; the role of Government 
is to create an environment in which the entrepreneur and small-business 
man and farmer can flourish, and that is me.
    All right, let me answer some questions. I hope you've got a sense 
that I want the job for 4 more years, and I've got a plan to make sure 
the country is safer, stronger, and better. That's really what I'm here 
to tell you, that I know where I want to lead this country.
    Let me answer some questions, and then we're going to get back on 
the bus and take it up the highway. Who has got a question? Yes, sir. 
Yell it--oh, there's a mike.

USA PATRIOT Act

    Q. The PATRIOT Act----
    The President. PATRIOT Act.
    Q. The PATRIOT Act is due to expire----
    The President. Yes.
    Q. ----coming next year. And I find that an important tool for 
protecting America. And in Wisconsin here, we have Senator Russ 
Feingold, as you're aware, the only Senator to vote against the PATRIOT 
Act. Wondering if you can tell us all here the importance of the PATRIOT 
Act and what we can do to help get that renewed.
    The President. Let me--that's a great question. A couple of things 
that are very important for you to understand about the PATRIOT Act. 
First of all, any action that takes place by law enforcement requires a 
court order. In other words, the Government can't move on wiretaps or 
roving wiretaps without getting a court order.
    Now, we've used things like roving wiretaps on drug dealers before. 
Roving wiretaps mean you change your cell phone. And yet, we weren't 
able to use roving wiretaps on terrorists. And so what the PATRIOT Act 
said is, let's give our law enforcement the tools necessary, without 
abridging the Constitution of the United States, the tools necessary to 
defend America.
    Secondly, the PATRIOT Act now allows intelligence gathering and law 
enforcement segments of the FBI to discuss cases with each other. You're 
not going to believe this--at least I didn't believe it--that the FBI, 
the branch involved with intelligence--in other words, who might be 
coming into the country, who might be--who somebody suspects might do us 
harm--could not discuss a case with the law enforcement division of the 
FBI. There was a wall between the two, which meant we could not share 
information, readily share information.
    The most important way to protect the homeland is to be able to get 
good intelligence and share that intelligence with those responsible for 
protecting the American people. And yet, the laws prevented us from 
doing that. And the PATRIOT Act wisely broke down that law so that those 
people responsible for defending you or finding information to defend 
you can better do their jobs. This was a practical application of law 
that did not take anybody's rights away.
    And the PATRIOT Act is indispensable for the defense of this 
country. You ask anybody involved with law enforcement; they will tell 
you that the law protects the constitutional rights of our citizens and, 
at the same time, enables them to better do their job. We need to have 
the PATRIOT Act renewed so that the people of America can be better 
protected by the hard-working folks of this country. I appreciate that 
question.
    Yes, sir. It's going to be a duo. Why don't you both ask the 
questions at the same time, and I'll answer the one I want to. 
[Laughter]

[[Page 1329]]

Promoting Job Growth

    Q. I'm wondering, when you're elected in November, how are you going 
to continue job growth over the next 4 years?
    The President. Yes, I appreciate that. Were you asleep? No--
[laughter]. That's an unfair question. No, I know. Good tax policy, 
fiscal discipline in Washington, DC, fair trade policy, legal reforms, 
good health care policy, and job training is the best way to make sure 
America is a place where people can find a job. That's what you've got 
to figure out--how to create the environment for job growth and 
opportunity so people can find work.
    Okay.

Support for U.S. Troops/War on Terror

    Q. Small-business owner, entrepreneur, and an Army veteran, went to 
school with the G.I. Bill, put all--everything I learned in the Army 
into work, into the business. But it breaks my heart when I see all the 
soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq doing fantastic things, as you 
mentioned when you initially came out here--they come home; they put the 
television on; and they just see horrible news of what's going on, a 
completely different perspective of what they have done during their 
tour of duty. What can I do as an American citizen to show my 
appreciation? I tell them every single time, ``Thank you for your 
service,'' whenever I see them in uniform. But what can I do to go that 
extra mile to show my appreciation to them?
    The President. I appreciate you saying that. Look, the best thing 
you can do is what you're doing. And there are a lot of people like you 
who understand the stakes and the hard work. Thanks for saying that. And 
it's really to thank people in the uniform. It really is. It's--and you 
can't--I can't tell you how far that goes when you take time out of your 
life to say, ``Thank you for your service.'' That's the best thing you 
can do. I could be self-serving--the best thing you could do is put me 
in again, but it's--but, no, I appreciate that spirit. And, listen, 
what's going to matter in the long run is that these troops come back 
and realize they've made a significant contribution to this country's 
safety and to peace and freedom.
    Let me remind you all of something, speaking about what we're doing. 
You know, there were a lot of skeptics after World War II as to whether 
or not what America was doing would work. What we were doing was trying 
to rebuild Germany and work for democracy in Germany. What we were doing 
was trying to rebuild--or help Japan rebuild herself and there be a 
democracy there. After fighting these countries and after losing lives 
in a war against them, the United States of America--at least my 
predecessors--made the decision to rebuild those countries into 
democratic nations or at least to help them rebuild themselves. That was 
the decision we made. And there were a lot of skeptics. There were a lot 
of people who said it couldn't be done. The plans weren't working. And 
it took a long time, and it was hard, hard work.
    You know, there were skeptics who said, ``Well, the Japanese, 
they'll never be able to self-govern. After all, they're not Anglo-
Saxon, or they're not Methodists, or I don't know.'' There was a lot of 
skepticism about whether they could self-govern. And there's still that 
skepticism today. There are some who I'm confident doubt whether or not 
a Muslim nation can self-govern. We don't doubt that in America. You 
see, we understand liberty. Thankfully, my predecessors did not fall 
prey to pessimistic attitudes after World War II, because today Germany 
and Japan are allies in the war on terror.
    It came home to me very vividly when I was having dinner with Prime 
Minister Koizumi, who, by the way, loves 
Elvis--anyway--[laughter]. And so we were--guess what we were talking 
about? We were talking about how to keep the peace. The Prime Minister 
of a former enemy is sitting down with the President of the

[[Page 1330]]

United States talking about how to keep the peace. Had my predecessors 
fallen prey to the pessimism about the ability of liberty to change 
societies for the better, I don't know whether I'd have been having that 
discussion. We were talking about Kim Chong-il 
in North Korea and the danger he poses to free societies in the Far 
East. That's because people after World War II had great faith in what 
America believes and what America stands for.
    It's really important for the families of the service men and women 
overseas to hear the message that the work that their loved ones are 
doing are essential to America's freedom and to peace, to long-term 
peace, because free societies are peaceful societies. Free societies 
listen to the hopes and aspirations of the people. Societies which are 
not free are those which breed resentment and hatred, and it gets 
bottled up and sometimes it doesn't manifest itself overnight, but it 
will manifest itself. And now it's manifesting itself in the form of 
terror.
    Now, let me--just one other thing I want to share with you, now that 
I got me going here. [Laughter] This is called a filibuster. Anyway--
[laughter]--not really. Anyway, the battle is a battle of ideology. 
Think about the Taliban. It's an ideology that is radical in nature, 
that doesn't believe in women's rights, human rights, human dissent, 
political dissent. It's dim. It is backward. These people have hijacked 
a religion. I don't think they're religious people. I don't think you 
order suiciders to kill innocent men, women, and children if you're a 
religious person. I think your heart has been corroded. But that's the--
and the alternative of that is freedom. That's the alternative, is a 
free society.
    Now, these radicals use terror as a weapon. They know our good 
hearts. They know America has a--a country of conscience. We're really 
decent people, very loving people. And they know we hate the death of 
innocents. But that's why their terror tool is so effective, because 
they'll kill anybody, anytime. See, they're trying to shake our will. 
That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to drive us from the 
world because they want their dim vision of the world to spread.
    They don't know our country. We will not be intimidated by these 
types. We will do our duty. We will remember the lessons of the past. 
And someday, an American President is going to be sitting down with a 
duly elected leader of Iraq talking about how to keep the peace. And 
they're going to say, ``Thank God this generation didn't fold under 
pressure, had a clear vision.''
    All right, little guy, what you got? Here's your chance. You've got 
something for me?

Support for the President

    Q. [Inaudible] I love you.
    The President. I think he said, ``Four more years.'' I'm not sure.
    Yes, ma'am.

2004 Election

    Q. Thank you for coming to Wisconsin, Mr. President. And we know 
that you're in a tough race for reelection, very, very tough, and the 
future of America is at stake. What can all of us here do to help you 
and Dick Cheney be sure to be reelected?
    The President. Thank you very much. Listen, I'll tell you what you 
can do. Thanks. We are in a tough race, and that's okay. I like to get 
out and campaign. I mean, I think a good, healthy debate about vision 
and philosophy is important. And I think it's important for people to 
get out--outside of Washington and ask for the vote.
    And that's what I'm doing now, and it's what I'm going to continue 
to do to election day. I've got the energy; I've got the drive; I've got 
the will to be your President. And I need your help. And the help you 
can do is register people to vote. And don't be afraid to find 
discerning Democrats and independents. There's a difference of 
philosophy that is emerging. People see a clear difference--clear 
difference of attitude,

[[Page 1331]]

clear difference of vision, clear difference of how to get there. And 
register people. And then when we're coming down the stretch, get them 
to vote.
    Listen, the race in 2000 in Wisconsin was very close, if you really 
think about it. Not many votes per precinct separated me and my 
opponent. And so, obviously, the more people per precinct we get to the 
polls, the easier it is to carry the State of Wisconsin, which is a 
crucial battleground State. It's a crucial State. I'm going to spend a 
lot of time here, thankfully. It's a good place to come. Thank you.
    Yes, sir.

Energy

    Q. Mr. President----
    The President. I thought for a minute we had John Glenn here. [Laughter]
    Q. You know what, Mr. President, I've been accused of that before. 
[Laughter]
    The President. He's a good man.
    Q. Thank you. You touched on energy a little earlier in your speech, 
and I'm just wondering what your views are on renewable energy such as 
ethanol, biodiesel, wind power.
    The President. Yes, I may--when I talked about alternative sources 
of energy, that's what I was referring to. As a matter of fact, it is a 
grand vision to think about a President saying--reading the corn harvest 
and saying, ``Oh, they're up, and now we're less dependent on foreign 
sources of energy.'' I mean, it would be a fantastic moment for any 
President to know that we can grow our way out of dependence.
    And I'm a believer in ethanol--said so in the 2000 campaign, and 
it's an integral part of the energy bill. And I'm for spending money on 
research and development for biomass, and it makes sense. And maybe 
someday, wind energy will be competitive.
    As a matter of fact, really what you're asking about is, can we--at 
least the way I put it is, can we manage our way through the short term 
until technology changes how we use energy? And I think we're talking 
about maybe a decade. Remember, I put out the hydrogen fuel cell 
alternative, asked for Congress to spend money for research and 
development. Someday, American automobiles will be powered by hydrogen. 
And that's going to be a fantastic change, which will make us less 
dependent on foreign sources of energy.
    We're in a transition period. Someday, hopefully, we'll find a 
better way to use nuclear power that people have confidence in. Someday, 
our clean coal technologies will give people more confidence in burning 
coal. In other words, we're making changes as to how we use energy and 
how we supply energy. And we're in a period of transition, and I believe 
technology is going to change. And the fundamental question is, are we 
able to grow our economy until it does? And I think we can do so in a 
balanced way.
    But, no, I can't think of anything better for the future than to 
say, ``Gosh, the corn crop is up, and now we have to buy less foreign 
sources of energy.'' But in the meantime, we're hooked. We import over 
60 percent--or about 50-something percent of our energy supplies. And 
that means we've got to have a short-term energy policy that makes sense 
until technology changes.
    And that's what you're seeing; you really are. You're seeing a 
changing world. And it's going to be an exciting time for people to be 
driving different kind of automobiles. It's just going to happen. It's 
just a function of when. And our job is to speed up the ``when'' by 
research and development money.
    Yes, sir.

Visit to Fond du Lac

    Q. Mr. President, on behalf of the city of Fond du Lac, I'm the 
president of the city council----
    The President. Thank you, Councilman. 
Thank you for serving.

[[Page 1332]]

    Q. We are totally honored to have you here today, and you're welcome 
back anytime you want to come.
    The President. Thank you, Councilman.
    Q. My question----
    The President. I thought it was going to be the classic, like, 
where's the key? [Laughter]
    Q. Well, we gave one to your dad when he was here in '92.
    The President. That's why I'm asking, you know? [Laughter] I don't--
I'm not sure the message.
    Q. I wasn't on the agenda. I tried.
    The President. Okay, good. [Laughter]

Insurance Costs for Small Businesses/Health Care Reform

    Q. My question is, I'm a commercial lender for a bank in Oshkosh, 
and I see a lot of small-businesses' financials, and their biggest 
expense is the increase in insurance costs.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. Do you have anything in mind to reduce the medical insurance and 
other insurance costs going forward?
    The President. Yes, I do. I mean, for example, you heard me explain 
the association health care plans. Now, what that means is, is that a 
company like Joe's can pool his risk with other 
like companies that exist in other States. You can't do that now. Like, 
if you're a restaurant owner here at Fond du Lac and you have 20 
employees, you're now going to the marketplace and you've got to buy 
insurance for your 20 employees. And therefore, you're not able to pool 
risk. In other words, the more people you can--you insure, the better 
premiums you get because you're spreading risk.
    And so we've got to let the restauranteur here or the Joes across 
the country pool risk. In other words, they can lump together as an 
association and then go to the insurance company and say, ``Look, we've 
now got not 20 employees, insure a million employees.'' And that's a 
better way to be able to control risk than the alternative, which is to 
have the Federal Government try to control price, which means, they're 
the decisionmakers. You don't want that, believe me.
    Secondly, we've got what's called health savings accounts. These are 
all set up for small-business owners, by the way, to make a better deal 
for their employees. You put money in tax-free; you accumulate money in 
the account tax-free; you withdraw it tax-free--all to pay ongoing 
medical costs, ordinary medical costs and, as well, is you buy yourself 
a catastrophic plan.
    So, in other words, on an annual basis, you're contributing tax-free 
or the company contributes for the employee, so the employee is the 
decisionmaker. It's in the employee's interest that they make wise 
decisions. In other words, you don't want to purchase too much health 
care. In other words if you go to the doctor here, doctor there, 
doctor--into the office--so you start asking questions, ``Do I really 
need this?''
    And so the employee--the customer makes the decisions. The customer 
shops. And if you don't spend more than you put in, that's your money. 
You roll it over. So you've got catastrophic to take care of major 
medical expenses, and you've got tax incentives to encourage you to make 
the right decisions.
    And thirdly, medical liability reform is the way to control costs.
    Two other things I want to talk about. One of the things we've done 
is we've expanded what's called community health centers all across the 
country. These are very--it's a wise use of taxpayers' money. It's like 
primary care facilities for people who can't afford insurance. It takes 
people out of the emergency rooms and puts them into a primary care 
facility so they get the help they need.
    And the other thing is--that Tommy and 
I are working on is we're trying to modernize health care, which is 
going to save people a lot of money. This is now--still a system in 
which people carry paper files

[[Page 1333]]

from one appointment to the next. Sometimes they literally don't carry 
them, but your files are on paper. And it leads to medical error when 
things are handwritten, particularly if a doc has handwritten it. 
[Laughter] Or something is amiss in the files. And yet, most businesses 
these days are able to put their files on the--use the Internet to be 
able to have better efficiency with their files and paperwork, better 
cost savings when it comes to recordkeeping.
    And so what Tommy and I are working on is what they call electronic 
medical records. Everybody is going to have an electronic medical record 
that you'll be able to carry with you, that you'll be able to send to 
whoever you want to send. It will cost--it will reduce cost in the 
health care system, and it will reduce errors in the health care system. 
And it makes eminent sense for the health care industry to get into the 
21st century. It's stuck in the past.
    So there are some--there are ways right there, practical ways to 
work on the cost of health care so that health care is more affordable 
to the small-business owners in America. And we're making progress. 
There's a battle in Washington; I readily concede it. And the battle is, 
do the consumers and docs make the decision, or does the Government make 
the decision? And it's a philosophical argument. And you know where I 
come down. I'm on the side of the consumers and the marketplace for best 
controlling the cost of health care.
    Yes, you've got a question? Let her rip.

Right To Vote

    Q. Okay. Hi, Mr. President.
    The President. Hi.
    Q. I'm 18, and this will be my first time I can vote.
    The President. Okay, let me stop you right there. I'm the first guy 
to ask for your vote. [Laughter] Remember that when you get in the 
booth. [Laughter]
    Q. All right, so this will be my first time being--Presidential 
voting. And I was wondering, since everyone has the right to vote, do 
you think there should be something so that everybody has to vote, so 
then you get more of a majority?
    The President. Yes, no, I appreciate that. I just don't think it's 
going to work, you know--compulsory voting. I wish everybody would vote. 
But it's a right--it's a right. It's like the right to worship the way 
you want to worship. It's a right. I just don't think compulsory voting 
would work. I'm not sure what the penalty is.
    I mean, it's--so, therefore, the thing we've got to do--thanks for 
bringing this up because it gives me a chance to remind people about 
their solemn duty, in my judgment, to go to the polls. Of course, I want 
everybody to be for me. I know it's not going to be the case, but I'm 
still urging people to vote. I want there to be widespread voter 
participation. It is--here we are working in Afghanistan, convincing the 
people of Afghanistan to go vote; we ought to be doing the same thing in 
our own country.
    So I--both candidates--I'm confident my opponent is doing the same 
thing, and it's the right thing to do. Part of traveling the country is 
to say, ``Listen, you have a duty. Get your neighbors to go vote. 
Please, go vote.''
    And so thanks for bringing that up. But, no, I don't see how you can 
get compulsory voting because I'm not sure what the consequences.
    Yes.

Usama bin Laden/War on Terror/Intelligence Capabilities

    Q. Mr. President?
    The President. Yes, ma'am.
    Q. Do you have an updates on the whereabouts or possible capture of 
Usama bin Laden?
    The President. Thank you for bringing that up. I tell you, if I 
knew, I wouldn't tell you. [Laughter] I'd be telling our forces which 
are stationed over there. He's on the run. 
He is, best guess, in the remote regions of Pakistan or Afghanistan, up 
there

[[Page 1334]]

in kind of the--in the mountainous regions there, best guess. I really 
don't know.
    I do know that the organization is--got the ability to kind of exist 
without his physical presence. In other words, there's command--there's 
commanders that are able to rise up even though we may capture a 
previous commander. Khalid Sheik Mohammed no longer is--somebody took his place. They tend to be 
decentralized at times. This guy, Zarqawi, operating out of Iraq, we call him an affiliate of Al 
Qaida. We're not sure he has sworn allegiance to Al Qaida, but he gets 
instructions from Al Qaida. They deal with Al Qaida. We've intercepted 
an e-mail, as you might remember, of Zarqawi to Al Qaida types in remote 
parts of Pakistan--I think it's where the e-mail came from. At any rate, 
it talked about how Zarqawi was to incite Shi'a-Sunni violence in Iraq 
so that a civil war would stop the advance of freedom. In other words, 
there was a dialog between the two.
    My point to you is, is that there are these kind of loosely 
affiliated cells along with direct chains of command that we're dealing 
with all over the world. And we've got a lot of intelligence 
cooperation. I mean, in order--this is a--I remember after September the 
11th, this is a different kind of war. I remember specifically telling 
the country that. Sometimes you'll see action; sometimes you won't see 
action. It's a different kind of a contest. It requires good 
intelligence.
    Let me talk about our intelligence right quick. Listen, I thought we 
would find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction because the Agency 
thought we would. And we didn't. But what we have known and found is 
that Saddam Hussein had the capability of 
producing weapons. In other words, he had the capacity, and he was a 
sworn enemy.
    And so the fundamental--listen, I'm--I know we did the right thing. 
We did the right thing for our security for the country. But the 
question the country must ask is, how do we make sure we have the best 
intelligence possible? That will be the next important discussion in 
Washington, DC. And I welcome it. Look, I want great intelligence. I 
can't do my job, we can't find people hiding in remote caves unless 
we've got good intelligence. That means more human intelligence; it 
means better electronic intelligence. We want to be able to listen to 
people better. It means to make sure there's better coordination inside 
Washington. And I'm convinced that out of the recent investigations will 
come a better system so that this President and future Presidents will 
be able to do as good a job as we possibly can for the American people.
    Let me also remind you, however, that the CIA has had some great 
successes. Let me tell you one right quick, because I want the CIA 
agents who work for America to understand how much I appreciate their 
sacrifice and service and dedication. A.Q. Khan was a citizen of Pakistan who was a prominent 
scientist. A.Q. Khan went in the business of selling secret nuclear 
information, know-how, processing, to countries like Libya, Iran, and 
North Korea, and we caught him. And we penetrated his network--we--these 
are brave citizens of the United States--penetrated his network and 
exposed it to the world. And one of the great proliferators of weapon of 
mass destruction technology is no longer a threat to the United States 
and the free world. We've got some really good people working hard for 
the American people.
    Yes. Go ahead and yell it out.

Minimum Wage

    Q. [Inaudible]--Restaurant Group, of which we are--we have 370 
employees throughout 10 restaurants. Senator Kennedy's minimum wage 
increase amendment that he's proposing is detrimental to small business. 
As a family-owned small-business owner, labor costs is one of our most--
it's our most detrimental cost. And as labor costs go up, we are forced 
to cut jobs,

[[Page 1335]]

raise prices, and it's a domino effect. I want to know your opinion on 
the minimum wage.
    The President. My opinion is, is that I think there is a reasonable 
level to which we can raise the minimum wage and, at the same time, make 
sure small businesses are not penalized. And Mitch McConnell is working on such an idea on the Senate floor, and I'm 
going to continue working with Mitch.
    No, I understand what you're saying. It's very important that we 
have a wage policy which does not price people out of jobs. And so I'm 
confident that if there is a minimum wage increase, it will, one, be 
reasonable, and two, will make sure small businesses aren't hurt.
    Yes, sir.

Marriage/Education/Faith-Based Programs

    Q. Mr. President, I'd like to thank you for making this country 
stronger and making me a better dad in helping to support my family as 
well.
    The President. Thanks. Yes. You know what: I can't make you a better 
dad. That's up to you. Thanks for saying that, but it's really your job.
    Q. I'd like to also thank your daughter for giving you up for 8 
years.
    The President. Thanks, yes. [Laughter] Thanks for saying that.
    Q. I'm executive director of a faith-based organization, and we 
direct--try to redirect the lives of delinquent and at-risk youth from 
the inner city. And we get a lot of young men from Milwaukee. I want to 
thank you for your efforts and leadership on faith-based organizations, 
but particularly, we have a dear gentleman in this country, a comedian, 
Bill Cosby, who has really taken some leadership interest and throwing 
some different punchlines towards the community and the inner city and 
looking at the social culture of our cities. And as a compassionate 
conservative, I'd like to get your views and your vision on how to work 
with the social culture and lead that inner city into a brighter future.
    The President. Yes, I think that, first of all, I believe that 
families are a very important part of a stable future. And I believe 
that it's very important for Government to promote and stand on the side 
of families.
    You know, we're having a debate in Washington, and it needs to be a 
very sensitive, thoughtful debate as to the nature of family. I have 
made my position clear. I believe that a traditional marriage--marriage 
between a man and woman--is an important part of stable families. 
[Applause] Thank you. I, again, to repeat, I want this debate to be a 
thoughtful debate. It needs to be a sensitive debate. But I feel 
strongly about what I just said.
    Secondly, the Government must work to strengthen family. Part of our 
welfare reform law was to encourage families to stay together. We put 
money aside--Tommy worked on this; it's a very important part of the 
law--to encourage people to stay together. Part of a stable society 
anywhere, whether it be in rural America or inner-city America, is for 
families to stay together.
    Secondly, education. You know, a lot of inner-city schools are 
schools that, for some reason or another, quit on kids. They just 
shuffle them through. Maybe people said, ``They're too hard to educate, 
therefore, let's just move them through.'' There's no doubt in my mind, 
when implemented, the No Child Left Behind Act is going to say to each 
child: ``We believe in your worth. We believe in your talents.'' There's 
extra money, by the way, for Title I kids. ``We're raising the bar. 
We're going to measure to determine whether or not you've got the skills 
necessary to read and write and add and subtract. And if you don't, 
we'll correct them early.'' That's what the message is. I think that's 
going to help make inner city a much more hopeful place, just like it 
will make rural America a much more hopeful place.

[[Page 1336]]

    Thirdly, many of the kids that you talk about need love. And I think 
it's the role of Government to encourage loving institutions to be more 
likely to interface with those who need help. What the--let me just tell 
you what it means. It means we're opening up Federal monies to grants to 
faith-based institutions. There was an argument in our country that said 
we couldn't do that, see. We couldn't do that. It would blur the line of 
church and state. Listen, I strongly believe in the separation of church 
and state. The church shouldn't be the state, and the state shouldn't be 
the church. On the other hand, I do think it's important for people in 
positions like I'm in to say, ``Does the program work?'' In other words, 
``Does it have a social objective?''--for example, mentoring kids who 
need help. They need love in their lives. That's an objective. And 
therefore, we ought to ask how best to achieve the objective. And if 
it's a faith-based program that is better able to do that objective, I 
don't see anything wrong with making Federal monies accessible to that 
faith-based program.
    And it must be done--the program must be done without causing the 
program not to be able to practice its faith, see. How can you be a 
faith-based program if the Government says you can't practice faith? You 
can't be. And one of the interesting challenges we have faced is that 
faith-based programs were fearful of interfacing with Federal 
bureaucracies because the bureaucracies say, ``Well, you can't have the 
Star of David on the wall or the cross on the wall. You can't have 
that.'' And so we have tried to change the culture in Washington.
    So there are three practical steps there: strengthening families, 
better education, and then unleashing the great compassion to help 
people such as yourself save lives. And it's working.
    Let me tell you something: The faith-based programs are beginning to 
take hold, and they're taking effect. We're getting more Federal money 
into the hands of the faith-based folks, what I call the social 
entrepreneurs, which are beginning to change people's lives in an 
incredibly positive way. And it's important to stay with the program 
because--as I can repeat; it sounds like a trite saying but it's not--
the strength of the country is in the hearts and souls of the citizens.
    There are a million kids whose mom and dad is in prison--a mom or 
dad is in prison. Those are kids who've got a future that may not look 
so bright to them. It can be brightened by love; I'm telling you. It can 
be brightened by a mentor. It can be brightened by somebody who comes in 
their life and say, ``I love you, brother. What can I do to help you? 
How can I help you realize a better tomorrow?'' Now, that sounds like a 
heavy lift--million mentors--but when you think about how many churches 
there are and synagogues there are and mosques there are and community 
programs there are, we're not talking about that many people.
    And my job is to rally the people of the country and, at first, to 
understand the proper relationship between the Federal Government and 
the strength--you know, you hear people say, ``Oh, the great strength of 
the country is our Government.'' No, that's not me. I don't believe 
that. I think Government is an indispensable part of our country, but 
the great strength is the people's hearts. And as your President, I will 
continue to call upon people to serve their country by loving their 
neighbor. That's one of my most important jobs.
    Yes, buddy, last question. We've got to go up the road. A couple of 
questions. Fire away. Go ahead. Well, maybe they don't want you to ask 
the question.

Education

    Q. Will you send more money for education----
    The President. Send more money in education----

[[Page 1337]]

    Q. ----to help the kids get their lives--to help them go to college 
and get the money to help the people?
    The President. Yes. Very good. He wants to know about education 
funding. I think that's what it was, right? [Laughter] Or just money in 
general? Well, the best way to send money to the people is to let them 
keep their own money in the first place. We've increased Federal 
spending for elementary and secondary schools by over 40 percent since 
2001, which is a hefty increase. In other words, we're doing our duty. 
What's changed is we've said now, ``Show us whether or not the money is 
actually working.'' See, before we'd send money and then they wouldn't 
ask the question. Now we're asking that question, ``Can a child read, 
and if not, why?''
    In terms of Pell grants and education grants that help people, 
deserving people, go to college, we've increased that spending as well. 
We're doing our job. But I want to remind you when it comes to public 
education, the primary funder of public schools are the States and local 
jurisdictions. That's the way it has been in the past, and in my 
judgment, that's the way it ought to be. And the Federal Government can 
help with Title I students or IDEA funding, which is for disabled 
students. But it is the primary responsibility of your State government 
to make education the number one priority.
    When I ran for Governor of Texas, I said education is to a State 
what national defense is to the Federal Government. The primary 
responsibility of the State is to make sure that the public school 
system runs well. And the primary obligation of the State is to fund the 
schools so they go well. And the Federal Government provides a 
complementary role. That's the way it is now, and that's the way it is, 
so long as I'm going to be the President.
    One final question, and then I've got to hit the bus.

Public Service

    Q. Mr. President, I'd like to welcome you to Wisconsin as well. And 
as an older mother of many children, we've tried to--we've had a number 
of kids that were interested in going into politics that were really 
turned off for a few years, but because of gentlemen like Tommy Thompson 
and yourself, we now have a son in politics, and we're very proud and 
also working for your benefit. Also, I heard you say that you'd like to 
return to Wisconsin. We have a great city about 40 miles from here, on 
the shores of Lake Michigan--Sheboygan--and we'd welcome you there with 
open arms.
    The President. Thank you. Let me talk about service. Thanks for 
bringing it up. There's obviously a proud mom, and that's neat that one 
of her children has chosen to go into public service. I encourage people 
to run and to go into public service. But I recognize not everybody is 
suited for it, and some people just aren't interested. But there's all 
kinds of ways to serve. It's just not--you don't have to be a candidate 
to serve. You can serve by loving your neighbor. You can serve by 
mentoring a child. You can serve your community by just walking across 
the street to a shut-in's home and saying, ``What can I do to make your 
day better?'' There are all kinds of ways to serve.
    I'm proud of your son for running. I think it's great. It's very 
important for people to step up and put their hat in the ring and get 
out there and mix it up. It's an exciting life. I mean, it's a--you've 
got to have a Type A personality, I recognize, but--[laughter]. Let me 
tell you something. I enjoy it. I enjoy being with people. I love the 
people of this country, and I love being with you today.
    Thanks for coming. May God bless you all.

Note: The President spoke at 12:18 p.m. in the factory. In his remarks, 
he referred to

[[Page 1338]]

President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan; former President Saddam Hussein 
of Iraq; Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal, who was found dead in Baghdad, 
Iraq, on August 19, 2002; senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al 
Zarqawi; Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of the Iraqi Interim Government; 
Col. Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qadhafi, leader of Libya; Prime Minister 
Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea; and 
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, senior Al Qaida leader responsible for planning 
the September 11, 2001, attack, who was captured in Pakistan on March 1, 
2003.