    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book II)]
    [September 13, 2004]
    [Pages 2016-2031]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Discussion on Health Care in Muskegon, Michigan
    September 13, 2004

        The President. Listen, thank you all for coming. Thanks for coming.
    Please be seated. So Hoekstra said, ``Get
    over here.'' He said, ``Come to Muskegon.'' I said, ``Okay. See if you
    can get some people to show up.''
        Listen, thanks for coming. I'm here asking for the vote. I'm here to
    tell you I have a reason to ask for the vote, and we're going to do it a
    little differently today. I'm going to talk to some of our fellow
    citizens about health care. That's what I really want to spend some time
    on. I'm also going to talk about making America a safer place, making
    the world a safer place.
        Before we get started on issues that matter to the future of
    everybody in this country, there's an issue that matters to me, and that
    is, I hope I can also count on your help in order to win this election.
    That means registering people to vote. Step one is to remind your
    friends and neighbors that we have an obligation in a free society to
    participate. So anybody who is 18 years old here who hasn't registered--
    register. You have an obligation. And step two is once we register
    people to vote, is to get them to vote. And step three is when you get
    them headed into the polls, remind them America will be a safer place, a
    stronger place, and a better place when you put Dick Cheney and me back into office.
        Audience members. Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

    [[Page 2017]]

        The President. Okay. Thank you all. Perhaps the most--I'm ready for
    4 more years, and perhaps the most important reason to give us 4 more
    years is so that Laura will be First Lady for 4
    more years. So I said, ``Will you marry me?'' She said, ``Fine.'' She
    was a public school librarian in Texas. She said, ``Yes, I'll marry you,
    just so long as I don't have to give any political speeches.''
    [Laughter] Well, fortunately, it's a promise she didn't hold me to.
    People got to see her in New York City. She gave a fabulous speech. And
    the reason why is because she's a genuine, kind, compassionate person
    who is a great mom, a great wife. I love her dearly. And she sends her
    very best. She's out campaigning today.
        I want to thank my friend Peter Hoekstra.
    He is a solid citizen and a very fine Member of the United States
    Congress. He is--and Diane, thanks for coming--he is a highly respected
    Member of Congress. He is now going to be in charge of the House Select
    Committee on Intelligence. I look forward to working with him to
    strengthen our intelligence gathering capabilities so that we can do as
    good a job as possible about protecting our fellow citizens. Peter
    understands that the world changed on September the 11th. He understands
    we have a solemn duty in America to do everything we can to protect you.
    And I look forward to working with you, Pete. It's a great honor that
    you've been selected.
        I want to thank all the grassroots activists. Those are the unsung
    heroes who put up the signs and make the phone calls and do all the hard
    work. I want to thank you for what you have done. I want to thank you
    for what you're going to do--[laughter]--over the next couple of weeks.
    You know, there's just no doubt in my mind that with your help, we're
    going to carry Michigan and win the country.
        Listen, most people in America agree with my philosophy that the
    role of Government is to help people realize their dreams, not to try to
    run their lives. The role of Government is to say, ``What can we do to
    help you,'' not tell you what to do. And that's the fundamental
    difference of opinion in this campaign.
        One of the things that I'm going to spend a lot of time talking
    about in this race is that I understand the world we live in has
    changed. And the fundamental systems of Government must change with a
    changing world. People say, ``What do you mean?'' Well, think about the
    workforce. When our dads and granddads were in the workforce, they
    generally were working for one company, one career, had one pension
    plan, one health care plan. Today, the workforce has changed. A lot of
    people have more than one job and more than one career. In other words,
    people are changing. Life is moving quite quickly.
        The other most massive change in the workforce has been women. Women
    who used to stay at home are now not only working inside the house, are
    working outside the house. And yet, the Government systems haven't
    reflected this change.
        The pension plans were designed for yesterday. They need to be
    designed for tomorrow. If you're a senior citizen, you don't have to
    worry about Social Security. If you're a baby boomer, you don't have to
    worry about Social Security. And by the way, you'll hear the same
    rhetoric you hear every campaign, believe me, you know, ``Oh, don't
    worry, they're going to take away your Social Security check.'' It is
    the most tired, pathetic way to campaign for the Presidency. So you
    don't have to worry about that. And baby boomers are fine. We're in good
    shape, you know.
        The people who aren't in good shape are the children and
    grandchildren in this country, because there's a lot fewer payer-inners
    than there are recipients when it comes to Social Security checks. I
    think we need to think differently for young folks when it comes to
    pension plans, and by that I mean younger folks ought to be able to take
    some of their own taxes and set aside a personal savings account. When
    you

    [[Page 2018]]

    hear me talk about changing systems to help people, this is a--this will
    help people when they have their own personal savings accounts which
    will enable them to actually receive Social Security benefits.
        The worker training programs were designed for yesterday. They need
    to be designed for tomorrow. That's why I'm such a big backer in
    community colleges. That's why I believe we ought to promote a lifetime
    of learning for workers. The jobs change in America. Sometimes the skill
    sets don't change with them. In order to make sure people can work and
    realize their dreams, the job training programs must adjust to a
    changing economy.
        We're going to talk about health care. It needs to be changed and
    modernized. It needs to reflect the world in which we live.
        The Tax Code needs to be changed. It's complicated--it's a
    complicated mess, is what it is. Americans spend about 6 billion hours
    filling out the taxes. That's a lot of time and a lot of headache. The
    Tax Code is full of special interest loopholes. In a second term, I'm
    going to work with both Republicans and Democrats to simplify the Tax
    Code, to make it more fair. This will not only help our economy grow,
    it'll help the American worker; it'll help the American family. So we're
    going to simplify the Tax Code.
        What I'm telling you is, I recognize the changing world in which we
    live, and the proper role of the Government is to change the systems of
    Government that were designed for yesterday so that they reflect
    tomorrow. In order to make sure--by the way, one of the biggest changes
    we have in America is the fact that our workers are more productive than
    ever. There have been high productivity increases, and that's great for
    the country. People say, ``What do you mean by productivity increases?''
    It means you've gone from a shovel to a--you know, to a mechanized
    digger, or from a manual typewriter to a computer. That's what it means,
    when you come more productive.
        And yet, a more productive workforce requires our economy to have
    sustained growth in order for people to find work. If the same worker
    can--if one worker can double the output of the past, it means the
    economy has to grow faster in order to make sure people can find work if
    they're not working. That's what that means. And, therefore, I put out a
    plan to make sure the economy that we have today is even stronger
    tomorrow.
        Now, when you're out gathering the vote, remind people we've been
    through a lot. Think about what this economy has been through. When we
    got in there, the market had already been declining for about 5 months.
    In other words, there was something fragile about the economy. And then
    we had a recession. The first three-quarters of my Presidency were
    declared recession because economic growth was negative. In other words,
    we checked in to serve the American people, and the next thing we know
    is we've got a recession handed to us.
        And then we had some corporate scandals, and that affected the
    psychology of the country. Make no mistake about it, when somebody
    doesn't tell the truth in the corporate world, it affects economic
    growth. There should be no question in anybody's mind today that we will
    not tolerate dishonesty in the boardrooms of America.
        And then September the 11th came, and it hurt us. I'm going to talk
    a little bit later on what it meant in terms of working to secure the
    homeland. There's some interesting--not ``interesting''--really
    important lessons from that day. But they estimate we lost a million
    jobs in the 3 months after September the 11th.
        And yet, if you think about it, we've overcome those obstacles. This
    economy of ours is strong, and it's getting stronger. And the
    fundamental question--I mean, the national unemployment rate is 5.4
    percent.

    [[Page 2019]]

    That's lower than the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Now, there
    are pockets in your State where the recovery is lagging behind the
    national average. I understand that. But that means we ought to put good
    policies in place and keep them in place, as opposed to resorting to the
    old, tired, you know, Government approach.
        So I want to talk to you about how we're going to keep the economy
    growing. And one of the key aspects is to make sure the health care
    system works. Before we get to the health care system, let me--here are
    some ideas that the American people need to hear.
        In order to make sure the job base expands in America, we need an
    energy policy that makes us less dependent on foreign sources of energy.
    I mean, it's going to be hard to sustain economic growth if we stay
    hooked. And we need to modernize our electricity grid as well. I
    submitted a plan to the United States Congress over 2 years ago, and
    it's stuck. It's a plan that encourages conservation. It's a plan that
    recognizes technology is going to change much of the energy debate.
        In other words, hopefully within a decade, people will be driving
    hydrogen-powered automobiles. That makes sense. You know, we've got
    great research being done on clean coal technology, so we can use an
    available resource. We want people--and one of--I think a great
    opportunity for America is that someday they're going to walk in and
    say, ``Here's the crop report, Mr. President. We're growing more corn
    than ever, and now were less dependent on foreign sources of energy.''
    We ought to be using ethanol and biodiesel as ways to diversify our
    energy supply.
        I think we ought to be using technology to expand and advance
    nuclear power. We ought to be wise about how we diversify our energy
    supplies and encourage energy conservation. In order to keep this
    economy growing, we put forth a plan that Congress must pass in order to
    make us less dependent on foreign sources of energy.
        In order to make sure the economy grows, we've got to continue to
    open up markets. There's a lot of farmers in this part of the world. The
    farm economy is strong here, strong in Michigan, and it's strong around
    the world. One of the reasons why is because we're selling U.S. product
    in other markets. That's one of the reasons why. Ask your corn growers,
    ask the people who are growing soybeans what it's like to be able to
    sell product, grown here in Michigan or elsewhere in America, overseas.
    And listen, we've opened up our markets, and it's good for you we have.
    Here's the way the economy works: If you've got more choices to choose
    from, you're likely to get the product you want at a better price and
    higher quality. That's how it works. My message to places like China is,
    ``You treat us the way we treat you,'' because we can compete with
    anybody, anytime, anywhere, so long as the rules are fair.
        One of the reasons we overcame the obstacles, one of the reasons
    this economy is growing, is because of well-timed tax cuts. I mean, when
    you've got more money in your pocket, it means that you're going to
    demand an additional good or a service. And when you demand an
    additional good or a service, somebody is going to have to produce it.
    And when somebody produces it, it means somebody is more likely to find
    work.
        One of the central tenets of that tax relief was, we're helping our
    small-business owners. Do you realize 90 percent of the small-business
    owners in America pay individual income taxes?
        Audience member. [Inaudible]
        The President. Good, well, there you are. Then you understand what
    tax relief means. [Laughter] When you give--70 percent of the new jobs
    in America are created by small businesses, and when you provide tax
    relief for small businesses, it means our economy is growing. That's
    what's happening here in America.

    [[Page 2020]]

        And so here's the thing, we've got to do something about these
    frivolous lawsuits that are making it hard for small businesses to stay
    in business. We've got to reduce regulations on small businesses so
    they're able to hire. And we must not raise taxes. In order to keep this
    economy growing, in order to make sure that jobs are available not only
    this year but in the out-years, we've got to keep your taxes low, and
    that's an issue in this campaign. It's an issue.
        I'm running against a fellow who has proposed
    over $2 trillion of new Federal spending. That's a lot. And so they
    said, ``Well, how are you going to pay for it?'' He said, ``Oh, don't
    worry. I'm just going to tax the rich.'' Now, let me--a couple of things
    wrong with that. One is, you can't tax the rich enough to pay for over
    $2 trillion of new money. In other words, there's a tax gap. Guess who's
    going to get stuck? Yes. Don't worry, we're not going to let him stick
    you, because we're going to win. [Applause]
        Hold on a second. A couple of other things. Thank you all. We've got
    a lot of work to do here, though. [Laughter] I appreciate the cheering.
        Secondly, if you run up the top two brackets on the individual
    income taxes, you're taxing about a million small businesses, is what
    you're doing. Now, why in the heck would you want to tax small
    businesses just as this economy is beginning to grow? If 70 percent of
    the new jobs are--in America are created by small businesses, why would
    you want to tax the job creators? You wouldn't.
        Thirdly, you've heard the rhetoric, right, ``Tax the rich.'' We've
    heard that before. The rich hire accountants and lawyers for a reason.
    [Laughter] And you get stuck with the bill. Raising taxes is wrong right
    now for this economy, and we're not going to let him get away with it. We are going to win. Taxes is a big
    issue in this campaign. I intend to make it an issue all across the
    country.
        Let me talk about health care. We're going to talk about health care
    now. And I've asked some folks to come and explain to you some of the
    reasons why our policy makes sense. You've probably already heard enough
    from me already for one day.
        Audience members. No-o-o!
        The President. Okay, well, that's good. I'm just looking for a
    little affirmation. [Laughter] If that's the case, I'm just getting
    wound up.
        I have a practical, commonsense plan to make health care available
    and affordable, and that's important, a practical way to make sure
    health care is available and affordable and a way to make sure good
    doctors keep practicing medicine.
        I believe health care decisions should be made by doctors and
    patients, not by bureaucrats in Washington, DC. We have a difference of
    opinion in this campaign. I'm running against a fellow who has got a massive, complicated blueprint to have our
    Government take over the decisionmaking in health care.
        Audience members. Boo-o-o!
        The President. His plan, if you listen carefully to what he says, would have bureaucrats become the decisionmakers,
    and that would be wrong for America. As well today, there's a
    independent study which has been released which says that his plan would
    cost the taxpayers $1.5 trillion in new Government spending. Not only is
    his plan going to increase the power of bureaucrats in your lives, but
    he can't pay for it unless he raises your taxes.
        Today we're going to talk about a difference of opinion. It starts
    with--you know, what would you expect from a Senator from Massachusetts?
    [Laughter] That's what you would expect--a Government takeover of health
    care with an enormous price tag. We're going to talk about a way to make
    sure health care is available and affordable, and start with Medicare.
    You might remember the old Medicare debates. They were called ``Medi-
    scare'' because people wouldn't dare talk about changing

    [[Page 2021]]

    them. I believe we have a duty to our seniors. I believe we have a moral
    obligation to make sure health care is available and affordable to our
    seniors.
        Plus, I went up to Washington to fix problems. You know, I said,
    ``If I'm fortunate enough to win''--this is what I said in 2000--``I'm
    going up to address problems, not pass them on to future generations and
    future Presidents.'' My style is to say, ``Here's a problem. Let's come
    together to fix it.'' We had a problem in Medicare. And the problem was
    that medicine was modernizing and Medicare wasn't. People say, ``What do
    you mean by that?'' Well, Medicare would pay for, you know, $100,000,
    say, for heart surgery, but wouldn't pay for the prescription drugs to
    prevent the heart surgery from being needed in the first place. That
    didn't make any sense. It didn't make any sense for our seniors. It
    didn't make any sense for the taxpayers.
        And so we modernized Medicare. Listen, seniors should get a
    prescription drug card today. It will help you with your cost of drugs.
    Starting in 2005, we'll have preventative care and screenings for our
    seniors as a part of Medicare. That makes sense. You hear me say I've
    got a commonsense, practical plan. It's practical to have seniors tested
    early so we can diagnose problems before it's too late. It's practical
    for seniors to be given preventative screenings in Medicare, and in
    2006, prescription drugs will be available for senior citizens in
    Medicare. We have strengthened Medicare, and it's good for our seniors
    we have done so.
        To make health care available and affordable, we've got to do
    something about the junk lawsuits that are running up the cost of
    medicine. And those junk lawsuits are running good docs out of practice.
    If the goal is an available and affordable health care, we've got to do
    something about lawsuits. Make no mistake about it, these lawsuits are
    running up your cost of medicine. You ask small-business owners, you ask
    docs what it's like to practice in a litigious society. That means
    there's a lot of lawsuits. [Laughter] I'm not even a lawyer, and I know
    the word ``litigious.'' [Laughter] Yes.
        And so--people say, ``Well, that was a local issue.'' No, it's not a
    local issue when the cost of medicine is skyrocketing or the cost of
    health care is skyrocketing because of the defensive medicine being
    practiced by docs, so if they get sued, they're able to have a good case
    in the courthouse. And it costs the taxpayers about 28 billion a year
    for docs to practice medicine defensively.
        And therefore, I went to Congress and said, ``This is a national
    problem. It requires a national solution. We need medical liability
    reform.'' Of course, it's stuck in the United States Senate. It came out
    of the House, and I want to thank Pete for
    his support. It's stuck in the Senate because the trial lawyers are
    powerful. They are a powerful special interest. They stand in the way of
    good medical liability reform. This a big difference in this campaign. I
    like to remind people you can't be pro-doctor or pro-patient and pro-
    trial-lawyer at the same time. You have to choose. My opponent made his choice, and he put him
    on the ticket. I made my choice. I'm standing with the docs and
    patients. I am for medical liability reform--now.
        There's more to do to make health care available and affordable.
    We've got to modernize the health care information. I believe that
    within the next 10 years, we can have electronic health records, with
    safeguards for your privacy, which will cut down on the administrative
    costs of health. We can save a lot of money by using technology to
    modernize health care.
        In order to make sure that health care is available, we need to
    expand the Government health insurance program for children. In other
    words, it exists, but many children are not using it. We've got a
    billion dollars available in the budget to encourage families to take
    advantage of Government-sponsored health care for children, for low-
    income children. It makes sense to

    [[Page 2022]]

    make sure that the programs are fully utilized in every aspect of our--
    in every corner of our country.
        In order to make sure health care is available, we need to expand
    community health centers. Tom Lufkin is with
    us. We're about to talk about community health centers. I made a
    promise, by the way, when I was running. I said, ``These things make
    sense for low-income Americans, to have a place to get preventative
    care. It's better that they get care in a community center rather than
    an emergency room in a hospital.'' I think it's good use of taxpayers'
    money to expand these, and we're doing it. We're fulfilling the promise
    I made in the 2000 campaign. I made a further pledge. I think every poor
    county in America ought to have a community health center.
        Tell us what they are, Tom. Thanks for
    coming.

    [At this point, Thomas Lufkin, executive director, Muskegon Family Care
    Center, made brief remarks.]

        The President. Appreciate that. Thanks. See, I believe Government
    ought to help people who can't help themselves. And the idea is to help
    people so they can help themselves, but there are some who just can't,
    some who are stuck, some who are poor. In the land of plenty, there are
    pockets of poverty. We've got to understand that. And the idea is to
    make sure that preventative health care is available through community
    health centers.
        I want to thank you for your compassion. An interesting point
    he said was these health centers spawn other
    acts of generosity in communities. People see that they're up and
    available, and other people who have got good hearts, who want to love
    their neighbor like they'd like to be loved themselves, step up and
    participate in helping those who hurt, in helping those who need help.
        And so one way to make sure health care is available is to expand
    community health centers throughout the country. And that's what we're
    doing. I want to thank you for coming, Tom.
        Another way to make sure health care is affordable and available is
    to help small businesses with health care. Now, here's the problem for
    small businesses: They go out and bid in the current system, and they
    don't have a significant pool of people to spread risk. That's the
    problem. They're in the midst of trying to provide health care in their
    businesses, and they go out and try to get a bid for health care, and
    they're kind of a little, stand-alone entity. Now, big companies are
    able to pool risk because of their size. We believe in order to make
    sure health care is available and affordable, that little companies
    ought to be able to bind--be bound together, share risk, so they can get
    the same discounts that big companies get.
        David. David Pray. I was looking for you
    and finally found you. [Laughter] Tell us what you do.

    [David J. Pray, president and chief executive officer, Decker
    Construction, Inc., made brief remarks.]

        The President. Good, that's a good sign, isn't it? Upbeat guy. Small company, how many employees?
        Mr. Pray. We have 10 employees.
        The President. Ten, that's small. That's the definition of a small
    business. And so he was telling me aboard Air
    Force One there that he has some problems with health care.
        Mr. Pray. Well, we've been--through
    Associated Builders and Contractors, we have been in a statewide pool
    for quite a long time. And for a lot of years, we enjoyed about a 10 to
    15 percent cost advantage over being--over going out and finding single,
    affordable policies elsewhere.
        The President. So they got a plan here in Michigan where you can
    pool together. It's a nice concept. However?
        Mr. Pray. However, last year, the State of
    Michigan passed legislation called Small

    [[Page 2023]]

    Group Health Care Reform which, instead of now being able to pool the
    risk over 400 member companies, premiums are now calculated based on
    claims history. So we don't have the advantage of pooling anymore. And
    the immediate effect for our company was a 29-percent increase in our
    premiums. And bear in mind that we, as a company, feel a duty to provide
    the medical and dental care not only for the employee, himself, but for
    his dependents. We fund 100 percent of that cost.
        The President. So here's what we're talking about. Listen, this
    guy's a responsible guy, you know. He says,
    ``I've got a duty as a employer of people to do the best I can do.'' The
    problem is the system is so designed that he can't really do his job
    because he is unable to pool risk. See, the more people you have in the
    risk pool, the lower the cost of health insurance. That's just how it
    works.
        And so what we're suggesting is, is that David be able to combine with companies not only in Michigan but
    nationwide. I mean, why shouldn't a guy building commercial construction
    in Texas not be able to put his employees in the same pool as David? The
    reason why is because the health systems were designed for the past. The
    current health care system is stuck in the past, as far as I'm
    concerned.
        A national plan--in other words, people being able to bind together
    nationally would mean that a lot of mandates that now affect the cost of
    health care would not be imposed upon these small businesses, and it
    means that more people could bind together. People resist this because
    they like the system the way it is. What we're interested in is, we
    don't like the way it is. We're interested in change. Government must be
    willing to change with the times. Association health plans mean we're
    willing to change with the times to help small employers be able to
    provide good health insurance for their workers.
        Another way--as you can see, I've got a strategy to make sure health
    care is available and affordable without the Federal Government making
    the decisions for you. See, we've said, ``We're going to take care of
    those who can't help themselves. We're going to make sure small
    businesses are able to afford insurance just like big businesses can
    do.''
        And now, I want to talk about a very interesting idea called health
    savings accounts. This is a different approach to health care, which
    will mean that the patient and doctor are central to the decisionmaking
    process and helps us hold down the cost of health care. Health savings
    accounts are an innovative idea that became the law of the land as a
    result of the Medicare bill I signed. And I want some people to
    describe. Matt, are you willing to
    describe what it means?
        Matthew J. Venema. Yes.
        The President. Okay, don't worry about all the cameras. [Laughter]
        Mr. Venema. All right, all right. I'll
    try to forget about those.
        The President. First, start with the name of the company and why
    you're even involved.
        Mr. Venema. The name of our company is
    All-Flo Plumbing, LLC. We're a plumbing contractor in the Grand Rapids
    and West Michigan region. We were struggling under the burden of our
    health care.
        The President. How many people, sorry?
        Mr. Venema. Fourteen employees, twelve
    full-time.
        The President. Small business, thousands of small businesses just
    like his all over the world, all over the country, all over America. The
    heart and soul of the American economy are these small-business owners.
    Sorry.
        Mr. Venema. No problem.
        The President. Giving you time to warm up. [Laughter]

    [Mr. Venema, controller, All-Flo Plumbing, LLC, made brief remarks.]

    [[Page 2024]]

        The President. Hold on a minute. Sorry. We've got to make sure the
    people understand what we're talking about. A lot of times, you use
    initials in Government. [Laughter] HSA.
        Okay, here it is. So you buy a high deductible----
        Mr. Venema. High deductible health
    policy.
        The President. ----health policy to cover for major medical costs,
    right?
        Mr. Venema. Correct. Correct.
        The President. So, for example, if you're a family--I've said, this
    company, he'll tell you what his is, I
    think it's a zero----
        Mr. Venema. Pardon me?
        The President. What is your deductible in your----
        Mr. Venema. It's $3,500 for a family
    plan.
        The President. So above $3,500, the insurance company will take care
    of the costs.
        Mr. Venema. Absolutely.
        The President. And then so what happens between zero and 3,500?
        Mr. Venema. As the employer, we took
    most of the portion of our savings and funded the HSA plans for each
    individual employee.
        The President. So the company is now putting in the money to cover
    routine medical expenses from zero to 3,500. They're able to put it in
    tax-free. They're able to rollover the money tax-free, and they're able
    to take the money out of the HSA tax-free.
        Mr. Venema. Yes, it's a nice benefit
    for the individual employee. If they happen to have a good health
    situation, they get a tax-free savings account. If something goes wrong,
    they're still covered. And my wife and I gave this a good test run last
    year because we had a premature baby and $20,000 in health bills at the
    hospital, and it worked like a charm. So we're very happy with this
    plan.
        The President. Let's make sure we understand here. This is--we're
    trying to simplify what sounds like a complex issue. And zero to $3,500,
    you pay--``you'' being the company and the employee, depending upon the
    arrangement. Now, if you spend $2,000 in the year, 1,500 of that 3,500
    that's in your account rolls over for the next year. And that's your
    money, and it's tax-free. It rolls over. So you build up a health
    savings account over time.
        Now, think about a system, by the way, that provides an incentive
    for you to make good choices with your life. If you save that money by--
    because you're healthier, that may cause you to go out and walk 20
    minutes a day. No fooling. In other words, the system all of a sudden
    says, ``You're in charge. You, the employee, or, you, the patient,
    you're in charge of your decisions, as opposed to somebody far away
    making decisions whether or not you deserve this or not through your
    insurance plan. You're the person in charge.'' And there's a tax
    incentive for you to make right decisions.
        All right, any savings?
        Mr. Venema. Yes, actually when we
    switched over, the premium savings have been phenomenal. Our total group
    expenditure right now for health insurance, including what we contribute
    to everyone's HSAs, is $38,500 a year, approximately. If we were still
    under our previous conventional plan, it would be about $81,000 a year.
    So we're talking about a 52-percent savings for our group, and we've
    been very excited about that.
        The President. These work. I'm telling you, they work. They make a
    lot of sense. Health care is more affordable under health savings
    accounts, and health care is more manageable because the decisionmaking
    is between the patient and the doc. And it's really important for people
    to understand that. This stands in contrast to a system where the
    Federal Government is going to say, ``Oh, here's what's going to happen
    here. We're going to move people from private health insurance to
    expanded Medicaid,'' for example. You don't want the

    [[Page 2025]]

    Government making decisions on your behalf when it comes to health care.
    And this is one of the fundamental philosophical differences in this
    campaign, is who do you trust? We trust the people. My opponent trusts the Government to make decisions when it comes to
    health care.
        Now, we've got another man here who knows something about it.
    Jim, tell us what's--welcome.

    [Jim Glupker, customer relations, All-Flo Plumbing, LLC, made brief
    remarks.]

        The President. It's an interesting twist. [Laughter] You're not the
    first person in America that way, by the way. [Laughter] Go ahead. Would
    you care to clarify why you're mad at me? [Laughter]
        Mr. Glupker. I can do that----
        The President. ----a fellow like me, sitting here.
        Mr. Glupker. I'm just a little disappointed
    that it wasn't available to me 30 and 35 years ago, when I was a young
    family, you know? Because then that account would have a lot more in it
    than it does today.
        The President. Yes, see, explain to people--you've got an account up
    and running? And you've used it?
        Mr. Glupker. I've used it, and the
    interesting thing is, when we changed over----
        The President. They work for the same company, by the way.
        Mr. Glupker. Yes. We were able to keep our
    same doctors, which was interesting. And the other thing is, because
    it's our money, when we go shopping for prescription drugs and stuff, we
    shop, because why pay $100 for that prescription when you can go down
    the street and only pay 80?
        The President. Yes. See, that's a very interesting point, isn't it?
    There is a marketplace in America, if consumers are empowered to have
    choice. That's what we're talking about here. ``We go shop.'' The old
    system, when the Government is involved, they don't shop. They dictate.
    Here, consumers shop. It's your money. You're in charge of your money.
    In this case, the company puts a lot of money in there that you call
    your own money. It's part of how they make sure the labor relations are
    good inside this little company, is they contribute to the health
    savings account, and he's out shopping.
        People ask me about prescription drugs a lot. Let me--a couple of
    points I want to talk to you about. And one, one way to make sure that
    prescription drug costs are reasonable is to encourage people to go into
    the marketplace and to provide more information to people so that
    they're not necessarily buying a brand drug when the generic is
    available. Generics are a lot cheaper than brand drugs, but
    nevertheless, they do the same thing.
        Secondly, we've got to move generic drugs quicker to the market.
    That's important for us to do, and we've got plans to do so. As a matter
    of fact, the Medicare bill helps do that. There's a lot of stalling
    tactics sometimes in the industry, where they say, ``We've got a new
    add-on that needs to be--need to extend the protection period for our
    brand drug.'' Well, we're cutting through all that. We're saying,
    ``Here's a reasonable period of time for you to recoup your
    investment,'' and generics are going to move quicker.
        I'm asked a lot about importation of drugs. It's an interesting
    idea. But remember, my job is to protect you as best I can. That's the
    role of the Government. And what we don't want to do is have a system
    where it sounds like a pharmaceutical may be coming in from Canada, but,
    in fact, it is manufactured in another country. I suspect the consumers
    of this country, while it sounds good that these may be able to help us
    on price of drugs if they come in from Canada--before I'll allow that to
    happen, I'm going to make sure that you're safe. Because all you need to
    do is get a batch of drugs manufactured elsewhere that sounds like
    they're legitimate, and get sick, and then you're going to be wondering,
    where were the people,

    [[Page 2026]]

    why weren't they doing their jobs of protecting consumer safety? And so
    I'm interested in knowing whether or not we can make sure you're safe.
    That's a duty we have in the Federal Government.
        Seems like to me, the best way to make sure that drug costs are
    reasonable is encourage the consumer to be a pricer in the market and to
    speed up generics. They say we'll save $35 billion over 10 years by
    speeding up the generic drugs to the marketplace, is what we're doing.
        Anyway, I hope you've got a better sense of where I intend to take
    health care. It's a practical way to make sure health care is available
    and affordable.
        And it's a comprehensive plan. We've thought through this very
    carefully. It's commonsensical. In other words, it makes sense to do it
    this way, because the alternative is, in my solemn judgment, not right
    for the American people. Having the Federal Government run your business
    and health care is--would be costly, it would lead to rationing of
    health care. It would mean that you're not in charge of your decisions,
    which is the exact opposite philosophy we hold.
        Now, let me talk to you about making America a safer place and the
    world a safer place. A couple of things I want to share with you. One,
    it's important never to forget the lessons of September the 11th, and
    I'm not going to forget them. I'm not going to forget them.
        The first lesson is, the enemy we face is coldblooded, and they have
    no conscience, that you cannot negotiate with these people, in other
    words. You cannot hope for the best from them. You cannot hope they'll
    change their ways. See, these are people who profess, you know, Islam.
    No, they've hijacked Islam, and they've substituted the peaceful nature
    of Islam with an ideology of hate. And they use terrorism as a tool to
    shake our will, to shake the conscience of the free world. And so the
    only way to deal with them is to stay on the offense, is to chase them
    down overseas so we don't have to face them here at home, and we will.
    [Applause]
        And it's important--okay, if you'll all hold on--thank you. I've got
    a little more work to do, though. Got some things on my mind----
        Audience member. Four more years!
        The President. Oh, we'll have a chance to do a little ``4 more
    year'' thing in a minute. [Laughter] I've got to tell you what's on my
    mind. I want you to know I have a reason for running again. I've got a
    plan to make this world a safer place and the country a more hopeful
    place. That's why I'm running.
        See, we've done a lot in this administration, but the only reason to
    look backwards is to best determine who to lead us forward. And that's
    what I'm talking about here. I just want you to know I have a plan and a
    reason for running, so that you can go out and tell your friends and
    neighbors, ``Let's put him back in there. He's got some good ideas. He
    understands what he's doing when it comes to making sure this economy
    continues to grow, making sure that families are strong, making sure
    that the institutions and systems are changed in order to help the
    American people, and he's got a plan and a vision to make this world a
    safer place.'' And that's what I'm here to tell you.
        First, I know the nature of the enemy. It means we must be
    relentless and unyielding. Secondly--and we must use all tools at our
    disposal. That's why I'm looking forward to working with
    Peter, to make sure the intelligence system--
    see, we're chasing down people who hide in caves, people who kind of
    lurk in the dark corners of cities around the world. And therefore, we
    need good intelligence, and we're working with friends and allies in
    order to share intelligence. You know, people--we'll use law
    enforcement. We're darn sure going to use our United States military,
    too, to protect the American people. And that's why it's important for
    our military to be,

    [[Page 2027]]

    you know, transformed to meet the threats of the 21st century.
        Secondly, since it's a different kind of war, in order to make sure
    America is safer I laid out a new doctrine that said, ``If you harbor a
    terrorist, you're just as guilty as the terrorist.'' Now, when the
    American President says something, he better mean it. When the American
    President says something, he's got to speak in a way that's easy for
    people to understand and mean what he says. I meant what I said when I
    said to the Taliban, ``If you harbor a terrorist, like Al Qaida, you're
    just as guilty as they are.'' They ignored what we said, and that's why
    they're no longer in power. In other words, we said, ``If you continue
    doing what you're doing, you're not going to be in power.'' And as a
    result of a great United States military and as a result of brave souls,
    Afghanistan has been liberated from a barbaric group of people. And
    we're safer for it. Al Qaida can no longer train because we upheld
    doctrine.
        Remember, they were training thousands of people in Afghanistan so
    they could put these terrorist cells around the world. Way before
    September the 11th, they were training in Afghanistan, plotting and
    planning. You know, somebody said, ``Well, they--by staying on the
    offense, you're creating more enemy.'' I strongly disagree with that
    sentiment--I strongly disagree. They were planning--they were plotting
    and planning way before September the 11th. No, by staying on the
    offense, we're reducing the enemy. By keeping the pressure on them,
    we're reducing the enemy and making America more secure. And by
    upholding doctrine, we're making America more secure as well.
        Now, think about Afghanistan for a second. Not only is the Taliban
    out and Al Qaida has lost a safe haven, but people are free in that
    country, and that matters to America. It should because free societies
    promote peace. Free societies become allies when it comes to fighting
    off the ideologues of hate.
        You know, it just wasn't all that long ago--it was 3 years ago that
    young girls weren't allowed to go to school--many young girls--most
    young girls weren't allowed to go to school in Afghanistan. That's
    backwards, see? When you've got people running a country that is so
    clouded in their vision that they wouldn't let young girls go to school,
    is a society that would breed, you can imagine, incredible resentment.
    It's a hopeless society. That's how terrorists are able to recruit,
    because there's no hope. Freedom--a free society is one that promotes
    hope. You know, their moms would be drug out in the public square and
    whipped. And that matters to America, because we believe in human
    dignity. We believe in the value of every human being. That's why we
    support a culture of life, because we believe in life.
        Think about this, tell your friends and neighbors this amazing
    statistic when it comes to Afghanistan--at least I think it's amazing.
    Three years ago, these people lived in a dark world. Today, there's
    light, and freedom is moving rapidly to that country to the extent that
    10 million citizens, 41 percent of whom are women, are registered to
    vote in the Presidential elections that will be taking place next month.
    Think about that. Amazing, isn't it?
        I have--I can't remember all the people that wrote and opined about
    what it was like going into Afghanistan back then. I suspect some
    probably said that these people can't be free. You know, they really
    don't want to be free. Freedom is powerful. And I'm just guessing that
    there were some people that were pessimistic about the country's dream
    of having a democracy there in Afghanistan. But 10 million people--that
    wasn't all that long ago that women were pulled off a bus by the Taliban
    and murdered because they were involved in the election process.
        Third lesson is, when we see a threat, we must deal with it before
    it fully materializes. In other words, one of the lessons of September
    the 11th is that oceans no

    [[Page 2028]]

    longer protect us from harm's way. It used to be, prior to September the
    11th, that if we saw a threat, we could deal with it or not deal with it
    because we never dreamt it would come home to hurt us if we saw
    something materializing overseas. Policymakers in the country could say,
    ``Well, that makes sense to deal with that,'' or, ``We can let that one
    go because it can't possibly hurt us.'' That's what we thought, and
    history had taught us that. I can understand why everybody felt that
    way, but September the 11th changed that equation.
        And therefore, when we see a threat, this country must deal with
    that threat so it doesn't come home to harm us. And I saw a threat in
    Saddam Hussein. The reason I saw a threat in
    Saddam Hussein is because I was looking at intelligence that said he was
    a threat. But as importantly, I remembered his history. He was a sworn
    enemy of the United States of America. We had been to war with him once
    before. He was shooting at our pilots who were enforcing the world's
    sanctions. He had harbored terrorists. Remember Abu Nidal? He killed
    Leon Klinghoffer. Abu Nidal and his organization was in Iraq. Zarqawi,
    he's still lingering around. He had an organization. He's got ties to Al
    Qaida. He's the guy who beheads people to shake our conscience. He was
    in and out of Baghdad. Saddam Hussein paid the families of suiciders
        Now, he was a threat. I went to the
    Congress, and I said, ``The world has changed.'' And they looked at
    the--they agreed. They looked at the intelligence I looked at. They
    remembered his history. And they concluded--Members of the Congress from
    both political parties concluded that Saddam Hussein was a threat, and
    they authorized the use of force. My opponent, he
    looked at the very same intelligence my administration looked at. And he
    voted yes when it came time to authorize the use of force.
        I went to the United Nations, and I'll tell you why I went to the
    U.N., because I believe before a Commander in Chief commits troops into
    harm's way, we must try all avenues, all avenues to solve a problem. I
    understand the grave decision of sending men and women into harm's way.
    It's a decision I wish I hadn't had to make as your President. It's a
    decision, however, that came to my desk because of the actions of an
    enemy.
        And so I went to the United Nations in the hopes that we could solve
    this problem diplomatically. And so I gave a speech, I remember, there
    talking about the threat, reminding people of the world that we lived in
    after September the 11th. And the United Nations looked at the same
    intelligence I looked at and remembered the same history and voted 15 to
    nothing to send this message to Saddam Hussein: ``You disarm''--or ``Disclose, disarm, or face serious
    consequences.'' Now, I believe when you say something, you better mean
    it in order to make the world a more free and peaceful place. That's
    what I think. I think when you say something, in order to--if you're
    going to vote to authorize force, you better mean it. If you're going to
    say ``serious consequences,'' you better mean it.
        But Saddam Hussein ignored the demands of
    the free world once again. People say, ``Well, you didn't try
    diplomacy.'' Diplomacy had been tried for a decade. This was a
    confirmation that he wasn't interested in complying with the demands of
    the free world. I think there was, what, 17 U.N. resolutions? Something
    like that--a lot, like, resolution after resolution after resolution.
    And he wasn't interested in complying. One reason we knew is because he
    systematically deceived the inspectors.
        And so I have a choice to make at this point: Do I forget the
    lessons of September the 11th, take the word of a madman, or take action
    to defend this country? Given that choice, I will defend America every
    time. [Applause] Thank you.

    [[Page 2029]]

        A couple other points. It's hard work in Iraq and Afghanistan. I
    know that, and I want to thank the family members who are here who--if
    you've got a loved one in the military, I want to thank you for the
    sacrifices you've made and the sacrifices your son, daughter, husband,
    or wife have made on behalf of this country. It's not easy to help a
    country. There are people around this world that want to stop the march
    of freedom because they see it as the biggest threat to their ideology
    of hate. That's the fact.
        A lesson I've learned, and a lesson that--it wasn't hard for me to
    learn it, either--was that anytime you put troops into harm's way, the
    Federal Government needs to support them so they can finish their
    mission. That's why a year ago, I went to the Congress and proposed $87
    billion of supplemental funding to make sure marines, like this man
    right here, have got what it takes to do the job. And we got great
    support in Congress. You might remember that, Pete, about how members of both parties stood up and
    recognized the need for us to support troops in harm's way. As a matter
    of fact, the support was so strong that only 12 Members of the United
    States Senate voted against essential funding for our troops--only 12--2
    of whom were my opponent and his
    runningmate, were part of those 12.
        Interestingly enough, when you're out gathering the vote, you might
    remind people that there was only four Members of the United States
    Senate that voted to authorize the use of force and then didn't vote to
    fund the troops. And two of those four were my opponent and his runningmate. You might
    remember, when asked to explain why he made the vote he made, he said,
    ``I actually did vote for the $87 billion, right before I voted against
    it.'' [Laughter] See, I think a President needs to speak clearly and
    mean what he says. So they kept pressing him. He finally said, ``The
    whole thing is a complicated matter.'' There's nothing complicated about
    supporting our troops in combat.
        A couple other things I want to share with you--a couple of other
    things then we've got to move on down the road in the bus. [Laughter]
    It's a bus tour. [Laughter] It's exciting to go on a bus tour, because a
    lot of people come out, and they want to wave, and it warms my heart to
    see many people lining the roads like--that's what happens on these
    trips.
        Let me tell you a couple of other things. One, people say, ``What's
    the mission?'' The mission is, in Afghanistan and Iraq, to help those
    countries become free countries, is to help on the road to democracy, is
    to help the political process go forward.
        Remember, Iraq is going to be having elections in January. They've
    got a tough Prime Minister. I like him, Allawi.
    He's a strong guy. He's the guy that, by the way, survived an
    assassination attempt by Saddam Hussein. The
    guy sent the people in to--he was living in London at the time--they
    sent a ax-wielding thug to try to chop him to pieces. And he survived
    it. Seriously. So he understands. He understands the tyrant. He believes
    in the aspirations of the people. He wants there to be elections. He
    knows that Iraq can handle democracy. It's what he believes in his soul.
    I believe we ought to help him get there.
        When we give our word, we need to keep our word. In order to make
    the world a more peaceful place, when you say something, you better mean
    it. And we've told the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, we'll help them. We
    will stay the course so that they can develop an army and police force
    of their own so they can defend themselves. That's what we're doing.
    We're providing stability for a political process to go forward, and
    we're training troops so they can do the hard work, so they can step up,
    so they can help the reconstruction efforts go forward. It's precisely
    what we're doing. And we're going to get the job done as quickly as
    possible, and then our troops

    [[Page 2030]]

    will come home with the honor they've earned. And the world will be
    better off.
        I believe liberty can transform the world. Listen, we all want
    peace. And I believe it's going to happen, that our children and
    grandchildren will grow up in a peaceful world, that we will make
    America secure by staying on the offense. But in the long run, our
    security comes from spreading liberty.
        You know, I tell people that one of my favorite leaders in the world
    is Prime Minister Koizumi of Japan. I want
    you to think about this here for a minute. You know, I sit down at a
    table with him and have dinner, and we have really interesting,
    meaningful discussions about peace. What's unusual about that
    conversation is that 60 years ago or so, my dad and your dads and
    husbands and grandfathers were at war with the Japanese. They were a
    sworn enemy of America. Thousands lost their life because of the
    Japanese.
        Fortunately, Harry Truman believed in the power of liberty to
    transform societies, and so did a lot of other Americans. There was a
    lot of skeptics, and you can understand why there was skepticism after
    World War II. If your loved one had been over fighting and had lost a
    life, how could you possibly imagine that a sworn enemy could become a
    friend? But because our predecessors believed in the power of liberty--I
    mean, predecessors for citizens and elected officials--to transform an
    enemy into a friend, today, Japan is a friend.
        We did the hard work after World War II of helping Japan go toward a
    democracy, not an American democracy but a Japanese democracy. And
    today, I sit down at a table with Prime Minister Koizumi talking about the peace, talking about how to deal
    with the tyrant in North Korea. By the way, it
    is now five voices reminding him that he needs to disarm, including
    China, as opposed to one voice reminding him.
        I talked to Prime Minister Koizumi
    about how liberty can transform Iraq and Afghanistan to become allies in
    the war on terror. I talked to the head of a country that we were at war
    with about how free societies will serve as powerful examples for women
    who want to be free in the Middle East or for reformers who wonder
    whether or not the free world hears their calls for help. I talked to
    him about feeding the hungry.
        I believe to whom much has been given, much is required. I believe
    this United States of America must use our great wealth and generosity
    to help those who are hungry in the world. I believe we ought to
    continue to lead the effort to help orphans whose lives have been
    changed because of the pandemic of HIV/AIDS on the continent of Africa.
    I believe we not only need to write checks; I believe we need to unleash
    the great faith-based programs of America to help those who suffer. I
    believe all these things. And of course, we'll continue to provide
    medicines and help and infrastructure to help save lives. I believe all
    this because the actions we take will mean that a generation of young
    Americans can grow up in a better world.
        The enemy attacked us. We didn't ask for this attack. They attacked
    us, but out of this attack, because of U.S. leadership, because we've
    got great values, because of our resolve, because of a clear vision of a
    better world, out of that attack is going to come some incredible good,
    in my judgment, a safer America, a more peaceful world, a better life.
        And that's why I'm asking for the vote for 4 more years. I know
    where I want to lead us. I have the energy and desire to do so. And I'm
    not afraid to ask for your help.
        God bless. Thanks for coming.

    Note: The President spoke at 10:58 a.m. at the Muskegon County Airport.
    In his remarks, he referred to Diane Hoekstra, wife of Representative
    Hoekstra; senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al Zarqawi; Prime Minister
    Ayad Allawi of the Iraqi Interim Government; Prime Minister Junichiro
    Koizumi

    [[Page 2031]]

    of Japan; and Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea.