    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book II)]
    [July 14, 2004]
    [Pages 1316-1338]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Discussion at Mid-States Aluminum Corporation in Fond du
    Lac, Wisconsin
    July 14, 2004

        The President. Thank you all very much. Thanks for coming. I
    appreciate you. Please be seated. Thanks. Thanks for coming to say hi.
    Thanks for having me. It's great to be here in Fond du Lac. We're here--
    I'm going to talk about how I intend to make sure America is a safer and
    stronger and better country. That's what I want to talk about today.
    Tell you why we're here at a business, it's because this is a business
    that is successful. And I'm going to talk about why I think it is
    successful.
        But I also want to answer some of your questions, too. So I'll try
    to keep my remarks relatively short--which is kind of hard to do.
    [Laughter] First, I regret that Laura is not
    traveling with me.
        Audience members. Aw-w-w!
        The President. I know it; yes, most people react that way.
    [Laughter] It's kind of like, why didn't you stay home and let her come instead? [Laughter] I'm a lucky man that--you
    know, she was a public school librarian in Midland, Texas. And I asked
    her to--when I asked her to marry me, fortunately, she said yes. And
    she's a great First Lady. She's done a terrific job. You know, I like to
    tell people that perhaps the best reason to put me back in there is so
    she'll have 4 more years as the First Lady. I'm sorry she's not with me.
    I love to campaign with her, but, fortunately, one of our daughters,
    Barbara, is traveling with me today. I want
    to thank you for coming, Barbara. Thanks for coming. Go ahead and stand
    up. Thank you. It's truly a lot of fun to travel your beautiful State on
    a bus and have Barbara by my side.
        I also want to thank my friend Tommy Thompson for serving our country so well. Thank you, T. [Applause]
    They still remember you. [Laughter] He's done a great job. I've given
    him a tough assignment--I mean a really tough assignment--and he has
    done it with a lot of class and dignity. I like to say the people of
    Wisconsin trained him well. [Laughter] But thanks for your service, T. I
    appreciate it very much.
        I want to thank the Colwins and all the folks here at Mid-States for inviting me.
    It's kind of a pain to have the President come. [Laughter] The
    entourages seem to be a little bigger as time goes on, and I know it's
    hard to accommodate the crowd.

    [[Page 1317]]

    But thank you a lot. I hope our people were polite. Yes, I hope so,
    because if not, they're not going to be working for me. But thanks for
    your hospitality. We'll talk a little bit about Joe's business here in a
    second. I particularly want to thank the employees for giving us a
    little time and space here to visit about issues that matter to the
    country.
        I want to thank all the grassroots activists who are here. Those are
    the political people who do your duty. We have a duty in this country to
    vote. And I want to thank you for encouraging people to vote. Thank you
    for registering people. Thank you for garnering the vote and turning it
    out. And when you get them to turn out, you might kind of give them a
    nudge our way. [Laughter]
        I've got some things I want to do. I'm here in this State asking for
    the vote. There's more to do to make sure America is a safer place and a
    stronger place and a better place.
        My biggest job is to make sure America remains a safe place. That's
    the most important responsibility I have as your President. And it's a
    task at hand because we face an enemy which has a dim view of the world,
    and it's an enemy which hates America because of our love for freedom.
    These are people that you just cannot reason with. You can't negotiate
    with them. Therapy is not going to work with them. [Laughter] They're
    coldblooded people. That's the way they are. And we have a solemn
    responsibility to the American people to bring them to justice. We must
    deal with them in foreign lands so we do not have to face them here at
    home. That's our job. That's our responsibility. That's our most solemn
    duty, is to protect the homeland.
        I want you to know there are a lot of good people working hard to
    protect America. You've heard about the threats. They're real. These
    people are--these people are still--lurk. And we've got to be correct
    100 percent of the time in America, and they've got to be right once.
    That's the challenge at hand. And we got a lot of really good people--I
    mean good people--working hard, long hours to run down any threat, to
    uncover suspicious activities to protect us. And I know you'll join me
    in thanking the first-responders all across this State and all across
    our country, our police and fire and emergency teams.
        And the best way to protect America is to stay on the offense and
    use every resource we have at our disposal to bring people to justice.
    That's the short-term strategy. And that's what we're doing, and that's
    what I will continue to do as your President. I'm not going to be
    shaken. I'm not going to have my vision clouded. I know exactly the job
    we need to do.
        About two-thirds of known Al Qaida leadership has been brought to
    justice. And that's positive, and that's good news. There's still others
    that are out there. And that's why we're working with other nations to
    share intelligence, to cut off their money, and to get them, bring them
    to justice.
        Now, the other thing about being the President is when you say
    something, you better mean it. One thing that's important about this
    job--so when I said, ``If you harbor a terrorist, you're just as guilty
    as the terrorist,'' I meant it. In other words, part of making America
    is secure is to deny the terrorists safe haven. And that's why I said to
    the Taliban--those are the folks that were running Afghanistan at the
    time--``Give up your--give up Al Qaida. Get rid of the terrorists
    camps.'' They defied us. And so we sent a coalition of troops led by a
    fantastic United States military to liberate the people of Afghanistan.
        It's hard work. It's not easy work. But America has done hard things
    in the past. And this is necessary work. And I want you to think about
    Afghanistan today, 3 years--compared to what it was 3 years ago. Three
    years ago, we had people living in a country run by barbaric, dim-viewed
    ideologues, so backwards that they wouldn't let young girls go to
    school; so backwards

    [[Page 1318]]

    that they would whip women in public; so backwards that if you had a
    view different from their own, you would face serious consequences.
    That's the country--and so weak that they were becoming infested by Al
    Qaida.
        Today, Afghanistan has got a strong President. They're going to have
    elections this fall for the Presidency. Young girls are going to school.
    The country is being rebuilt, and we've got an ally in the war on
    terror.
        Another lesson of September the 11th is that this country must deal
    with threats before they fully materialize. In other words, before, we
    could say--before September the 11th, it was assumed that when we saw a
    threat, you know, we may have to deal with it, may not have to deal with
    it, because we never dreamt the threats would actually come to our own
    homeland. Now, we know the nature of the enemy, and we know the capacity
    of the enemy. And therefore, when we see a threat, we've got to deal
    with it.
        First choice is diplomatically. That's the first choice the--any
    President must do--is say, ``Let's see if we can't convince a country,
    for example, to change its ways.'' I saw a threat in Iraq. I'll tell you
    why I saw the threat in Iraq. First, they had a leader that hated
    America, a declared enemy of this country.
    Secondly, they had attacked their neighbors. Thirdly, they had used
    weapons of mass destruction on their own people. Fourthly, there were
    terrorist connections inside of Iraq; I mean, there was terrorist
    organizations. For example, Abu Nidal was a known terrorist, and his
    organization found safe haven there in Iraq, as has other people. A guy
    named Zarqawi, whose name is in the
    news--there was a car bomb today in Baghdad. I suspect Zarqawi ordered
    it. I don't know, but that's the nature of Zarqawi. See, he'll kill
    anybody, anywhere, anytime to try to create fear and confusion.
        At any rate, we looked at the intelligence presented to us, and we
    saw a threat. Now, I want you to remember that the United States
    Congress looked at the very same intelligence--members of both political
    parties looked at the intelligence, and they saw a threat. We remember
    the lesson of September the 11th. We knew threats must be dealt with
    before they fully materialize, and we saw a threat. The U.N. Security
    Council looked at the same intelligence, and it saw a threat.
        Now, you might remember, in September of 2002, I went to the United
    Nations. I said, ``You've called the man a threat over and over again.
    You've had resolution after resolution after resolution after
    resolution. We hope you don't become an empty debating society; we hope
    your word means something.'' So--and they listened. And we passed
    another resolution on a 15-to-nothing vote. In other words, nations of
    the world came together and said to Saddam Hussein, ``Disclose, disarm, or face serious consequences.''
    And that's the history. In other words, we put together a--we tried to
    convince him diplomatically. So the word spoke--world spoke, and we
    said, ``Let inspectors go in and see whether or not he's conforming to
    the request of the free world.'' And history has shown that he was
    deceiving. There was a systematic deception, campaign of deception going
    on. In other words, we knew that he was deceiving the inspectors, and we
    wondered why. What did he have to hide? What did the man who had used
    weapons of mass destruction, what did the man who declared his hatred
    for America, have to hide?
        In other words, I had a choice to make at this point in time in
    history: Do I forget the lessons of September the 11th and hope for the
    best? Do I trust the actions of a madman? Or do I take the action
    necessary to defend America? And given that choice, I will defend our
    country every single time.
        It's been hard work; it's been really hard work. And we've lost
    brave troops, and we mourn for every troop. And in order to make sure
    that those who have sacrificed

    [[Page 1319]]

    for a better world and a safer America, to make sure their sacrifice
    means something, we will complete our mission in Iraq. Because a free
    Iraq is in this country's interests. A free Iraq in the heart of the
    Middle East is in the interests of the United States of America. It's in
    our security interests that freedom take hold in a part of the world
    where there's hopelessness and resentment--the ingredients necessary for
    the enemy to attract terrorists, killers. That's what we want.
        See, the long-term solution in this fight against an ideology that
    is opposite of ours is to spread democracy and freedom. That's the long-
    term solution. And that's what you're seeing taking place. The world is
    changing because of the leadership of the United States of America.
    Think about the world 3 years ago. Afghanistan was troubled; it's now
    free. We got a great leader in Iraq named Prime Minister Allawi. He's a tough guy, and he believes in the hopes and
    aspirations of the Iraqi people. And Iraq is going to be a free society,
    and what an example that will serve. Imagine people looking--in the
    neighborhood and saying, ``Gosh, they actually listen to what I think. I
    have a chance to raise my child in a relatively peaceful society. I
    don't have to be brutalized by a tyrant all the time.''
        Let me tell you this quick story about why I feel so strongly about
    what we have done and we're doing. Seven men came to see me in the Oval
    Office. First of all, coming into the Oval Office is a pretty powerful
    experience. And it's such a nice place, I'd like to stay there for a
    while. [Laughter] Anyway--you know why? You can get positive things done
    for the country and the world. That's the only reason to hold the
    office, is to lead the country toward a better tomorrow.
        Anyway, these guys come in--seven of them--all seven had had their
    right hands chopped off by Saddam Hussein.
    You know why? Because his currency had been devalued, and he needed
    somebody to blame. That's what tyrants do. And he blamed these seven
    small-business men. You say, why these seven? Well, I'll tell you. One
    guy, for example, sold dinars to get dollars to buy gold so he could
    make jewelry. And so I guess they must have looked at who was selling
    Iraqi currency to cause this--to blame the people for the cause of the
    devaluation. Anyway, not only were their right hands cut off, they had
    X's in their heads carved by their--by the Saddam boys.
        Fortunately for them, there was a movie made about their plight, and
    the movie was seen by a guy in Houston, Texas, named Marvin
    Zindler, Big 2 News. He was--if you've ever
    lived in Houston, you can't escape Marvin Zindler. He's a great
    American, is what he is. He's a news guy who started a foundation at
    some point in his career to help others. And he flew them to Houston,
    Texas, and they had new hands fitted, the latest prosthesis. And they're
    coming, now, to the Oval Office. And they walk in this fantastic place--
    I mean, they were overwhelmed with emotion. A guy said, ``Thank you.'' I
    said, ``You don't need to thank me. You need to thank the American
    people; that's who you need to thank. You need to thank the people that
    understand the great power of freedom and liberty to transform lives.''
        It was a wonderful contrast, wasn't it, the contrast between a
    compassionate nation that believes in the worth of each individual as
    opposed to a nation run by a tyrant who's
    willing to chop somebody's hand off because he had a bad day. And that's
    what we've changed. We've changed that dynamic in the world. People in
    that part of the world are going to see a hopeful tomorrow when they see
    a free Iraq emerge. Three years ago, nobody would have dreamed that a
    democracy would be rising in Iraq. Today, a democracy is rising in Iraq,
    and America will stand with those democrats until the job is complete.
        Just a couple of other points I want to make to you about how this
    administration is leading the world to make it a safer

    [[Page 1320]]

    place for all of us. Pakistan was a place where terrorists could--where
    they had--Pakistan was the only country, by the way, that recognized the
    Taliban at the time, and Al Qaida could move freely throughout Pakistan.
    This is 3 years ago. Today, the Pakistan Government is determined to
    rout out Al Qaida out of their country. We've got an ally in the war on
    terror in Pakistan.
        Saudi Arabia--there wasn't much pressure on Al Qaida 3 years ago.
    Today, Saudi Arabian Government is focused on making sure the Al Qaida
    leadership and other terrorists are brought to justice. They're now an
    ally in the war on terror.
        Libya--Libya was a country which had terrorist ties and was
    developing weapons programs, which we discovered, and made it clear to
    the Libyan leader that there
    was a better alternative to developing weapons of mass destruction.
    Because the United States speaks clearly and means what it says, he got
    the message and is now disarming. As a matter of fact, I was in Oak
    Ridge, Tennessee, the other day looking at a lot of the processing
    equipment we had brought back to the United States of America. Three
    years ago, Libya was dangerous; today, Libya has disarmed.
        No, the world is changing because the United States of America is
    leading. And there's more to do. There's more work to be done. If you
    give me 4 more years, America will be a safer place because the world
    will be a freer place. I'm running again because I want America to be a
    stronger and better country as well.
        Let me start first with ``better.'' We're a better country when we
    educate every child. The No Child Left Behind Act is a great piece of
    reform. It said we'll spend more Federal money, but in return, we expect
    results. That seems like a reasonable thing to ask, isn't it? We want to
    know whether or not our children can read and write and add and
    subtract. That shouldn't be that hard a question. Are you able to teach
    a child how to read at the third-grade level, and if not, what are you
    going to do to change so that child can read at the third-grade level?
        I'll tell you what we've done. We've raised the bar because I
    believe every child can learn to read and write and add and subtract.
    We're challenging what I call the soft bigotry of low expectations. In
    other words, if you believe certain children can't learn, they won't.
    It's just as simple as that. If you've got low expectations, you're
    going to receive--you'll achieve mediocre results.
        The No Child Left Behind Act has got great faith in the local folks
    to chart the path to excellence. It's got strong sense of
    accountability, and it raises the bar. A better America is an America in
    which every child receives an education early, before it is too late.
    It's precisely what this administration will continue to push for.
        A better America is an America that understands the strength of the
    country is in the hearts and souls of the American citizens. That's
    where our strength lies. I've talked about our military; I'm going to
    keep it strong. You're about to hear me talk about our economy, which is
    strong and getting stronger. But that's not the true strength. The true
    strength of this country is the fact there are thousands and thousands
    of fellow citizens who love a neighbor just like they would like to be
    loved themselves, and it doesn't require a Federal law.
        That's why my Faith- and Community-Based Initiative is a vital part
    of a better America. In other words, I need to be your President for 4
    more years to continue to rally the armies of compassion, which exist
    all across the State of Wisconsin.
        Let me give you an example: If you happen to be hooked on alcohol or
    drugs, you need help. And sometimes you can get the right help from a
    counselor, a government-sponsored counselor--nothing wrong with that, by
    the way. But sometimes--as a matter of fact, a lot of times, in order to
    change your ways, you have to change your heart. In other words, if you
    change your heart, you're more likely to change your

    [[Page 1321]]

    habits. Government is not love. Government is law and justice. Love
    comes from our religious congregations of all faiths, people have heard
    the call to love a neighbor. And therefore, when we're talking about how
    to help people get off drugs or alcohol, this Government of ours and
    this country of ours must not fear welcoming faith-based programs into
    the delivery of services which will help lives. We ought not to fear
    faith in America; we ought to welcome faith. [Applause] Thank you. Thank
    you all.
        Finally--I'm watching closely to make sure somebody doesn't fall
    out; I might get speaking too long--[laughter]. Finally, a stronger
    America starts with making sure we've got a place where people can find
    work--good, solid jobs. That's what a stronger America--when you hear me
    say ``safer, strong, and better,'' I'm talking stronger--means a place
    where people can find a job and do their duty as a mom or a dad to
    provide for their family. That's what I'm most interested in when I talk
    about stronger America.
        We are a strong America. Let me tell you what we've been through.
    Let me remind you right quick. We have been through a recession; that's
    when things go backwards. Ask any small-business owner what it's like to
    try to run a business in a recession, and they'll tell you it's
    difficult. It's hard, hard work.
        We start coming out of recession, and the enemy hit us. And it
    affected our economy. The attacks of September the 11th affected our
    economy; it just did. It affected our way of thinking about how we must
    defend ourselves, and it affected the economy. You might remember, banks
    closed down, airplanes couldn't fly. I mean, a lot happened that rippled
    throughout our economy, that cost people their jobs.
        And then, just as we were recovering from that--listen, we are a
    resilient country, and the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well
    here, which I think makes us really unique in the world. And then we
    found out we had some of our citizens who did not tell the truth, some
    of our corporate citizens. And that shook us; make no mistake about it.
    When you're in an economy that requires good accounting--good, honest
    accounting--and you find out that some of them fudged the numbers, it
    affected our confidence; it just did. We passed tough laws. You're now
    seeing on your TV screens that people are now being brought to justice,
    because we're not going to tolerate dishonesty in the boardrooms of
    America in order to make sure--[applause].
        And finally, you heard me talk about the decisions I made in order
    to make America a safer place. When you hear on your TV screens
    ``America is marching to war,'' it's difficult to make investment. It's
    a negative thought. I know that. In other words, people need to be
    optimistic. If they're going to invest, they need to be optimistic. And
    it wasn't optimistic times for a while. I know that. But we've overcome
    all that. Why do I say that? Because our economy is growing, and it's
    growing strong. And right here in Wisconsin, you've got a 5.1-percent
    unemployment rate. That means people are working. That's way below the
    national average. This economy is ginning here. There's more to do, but
    it is strong.
        I think one of the reasons why is because of the tax relief we
    passed. And we're going to talk about some of that tax relief right
    quick. Let me just remind you what was in the tax relief package. If
    you're--first of all, we said, ``If you pay taxes, you're going to get
    relief.'' In other words, everybody that pays taxes should get tax
    relief. To me, that's the most fair way to do things, not try to kind of
    pick and choose winners in the Tax Code. The best way to provide
    fairness in tax relief is to reduce the rates of everybody who pays. And
    that's what happened, as you recall.
        Secondly, we raised the child credit. If you're a mom or dad, you
    get a little extra tax relief. Thirdly, we reduced the marriage penalty.
    It's kind of a strange Tax Code

    [[Page 1322]]

    that penalizes marriage. We're trying to encourage the opposite here in
    America. We want people to be married, and to penalize marriage doesn't
    make much sense.
        We created a 10-percent tax bracket. We provide expensing deductions
    for new small businesses. In other words, we said, ``If you invest, you
    get to write off more money.'' In other words, you save more money. We
    said to small businesses, ``We want you to invest.''
        But I want you to understand something very important in this Tax
    Code, in these tax cuts. By far, the majority of small businesses pay
    taxes at the individual income-tax rate. You see, they're called
    Subchapter S corporations. Like all the people who work here at Mid-
    States, you're working for a Subchapter S corporation. And they pay tax
    at the individual income rate. So do sole proprietorships. So when you
    hear me talking about cutting individual income taxes, we also cut the
    taxes on thousands of small businesses too. And you know why? Most small
    businesses create--most new jobs are created by small businesses in
    America. That's the reality. And therefore, if you want people going
    back to work, you've got to stimulate the small-business sector.
        And now, Joe's business right here is a
    Subchapter S corporation. Joe, why don't you stand up again? He's the
    president and CEO. First of all, this is Joe's business. Now, you notice
    he said ``associates,'' because he's a great CEO. He makes sure
    everybody understands. But he's the guy that put up the money. That's
    what we want in America, by the way. We want people owning things. We
    want people owning their own homes. The homeownership rate in America is
    at an alltime high. That's fantastic news for our country. People own
    something, they have a stake in the future of the country.
        And so, Joe, thanks for inviting us to your
    business. Tell us what you do.

    [At this point, the discussion continued.]

        The President. Let me tell you something. Why--why did you hire 73
    people? Just to be a nice guy?
        Joe Colwin. Because we're continuing to grow.
        The President. There you go. The markets are growing. This is
    happening all across the country. Small businesses--did the tax cuts
    help? I'm kind of like a lawyer--I'm not one, you'll be happy to hear--
    nothing wrong with a good lawyer, don't get me wrong. I'm leading the
    witness. [Laughter] Did the tax cuts help? He's a
    Subchapter S corporation. In other words, we cut his taxes. Why? Because
    if he's got more money in his pocket, he's going to plow it back into
    the business, which means you're likely to keep your work. In this case,
    73 more people found a job; that's what's important.
        Mr. Colwin. Yes, sir. [Laughter] Pretty
    simple math.
        The President. It helps. Tax relief helps.
        Mr. Colwin. It does.
        The President. Now, are you going to make investments this year?
        Mr. Colwin. We're going to continue to make
    investments this year. We are going to make a minimum investment of $1.6
    million in continued fabrication equipment. And in this room here, we
    are going to invest in excess of $6 million.
        The President. Wow, that's good.
        Mr. Colwin. And that's 14 million----
        The President. Yes, let me explain what that means. See, that's
    really good news. But let me tell you what investment really means.
    He just said he's going to buy fabricating
    equipment.
        Mr. Colwin. That's correct.
        The President. Yes. Somebody has got to make it. See, when you hear
    him say, ``I'm going to invest,'' that means he's
    purchasing something. And somebody has got to make that. One of your
    fellow workers is going to have to make that in another place, which
    means that person is more likely to keep a job. It may be a new hire,
    see. In other words, his investment may

    [[Page 1323]]

    be that which is necessary for the person to hire somebody else. It may
    just be that extra product that this particular company has to make in
    order to meet his demand that encourages them to hire somebody else. I
    don't know who you're buying it from. It would be a good chance to put a
    plug in for them. [Laughter]
        Mr. Colwin. It's all over--it's all over.
        The President. Well, that's important. And see, what you need to
    hear--look at and think about is the amount of investment that's taking
    place in America, because there's a lot of decisionmakers like
    Joe. Joe just told us he's going to invest at
    least a million six in new plant and equipment. There's a lot of Joes
    all over America making that same decision. And that's how the economy
    grows. And the tax relief plan we passed said to Joe: ``We're going to
    help you make the decision, because if you make the decision to buy
    plant and equipment this year, you get a little extra tax break.'' Isn't
    that right, Joe?
        Mr. Colwin. That's correct.
        The President. Now, you're supposed to be doing more talking than I
    am. [Laughter] It's your business. [Laughter] Let me tell you something.
    It's got to do your heart good to hear an entrepreneur who's confident
    enough to say, ``I've hired people, and I'm investing.'' That's what
    we've got to hear. That's what's happening all over America.
        Good job, buddy. Yes, sir. Thanks.
        And so some questions you've got to ask in this campaign is, who
    understands that the role of Government is not to create wealth but to
    create an environment so small businesses grow? Now, you're going to
    hear talk in this campaign about, ``Well, I'm going to increase the
    Federal spending, but don't worry, I'm going to pay for it by taxing the
    rich.'' We've heard that kind of language a lot in American politics.
    But I'm here for a reason. I want you to understand who ``the rich'' is.
    It's the people who work in this company, because when you're talking
    taxing the rich on the individual income-tax rates, you're raising taxes
    on Subchapter S corporations. And if this company has less money in its
    pocket, you're less likely to keep a job and have the benefits you
    expect for your families.
        People need to be aware of this talk out of Washington, DC, that
    says, ``Oh, don't worry, we're just going to tax the rich.'' That's not
    the way it works in the Tax Code. The big rich dodge taxes, anyway. It's
    companies like this who end up paying more taxes, and that would be
    wrong for our economy. We need to make sure these tax cuts we've passed
    are permanent and that Congress doesn't raise the taxes.
        A couple other points I want to make about making sure Joe feels comfortable investing. We've got too many junk and
    frivolous lawsuits that threaten jobs in America. We need legal reform
    in this country; I'm telling you. Yes, the small-business people, what
    worries them--I'll tell you what worries them: trying to fight off a
    junk lawsuit in court. And Congress has got a role to play. We need
    class-action reform, for example. And yet, the Senate is controlled by
    the lawyers, and we can't get it out. I'm going to continue working for
    it. I think it's necessary to make sure this is a place for people to be
    able to find work; that is, reform is necessary.
        I'll tell you what else is necessary is medical liability reform.
    One of the things that--one of the--I hear it from small businesses all
    the time: ``I'm having trouble making sure my people working with me get
    good health care.'' The costs are going up. That's why we've got what we
    call associate health care plans. This will enable people to pool risk
    across jurisdictional boundaries so small businesses have got the
    capacity to buy insurance like big businesses do. In other words, if
    you're able to spread risk, you get a better deal for your employees. Or
    health savings accounts--these are tax-free alternatives to the Federal
    Government running the

    [[Page 1324]]

    health care system, which I am absolutely against.
        Let me tell you what else is a problem: these frivolous and junk
    lawsuits against the doctors. Listen, if you get hurt, you ought to have
    your day in court. Make no mistake about it. Nobody is saying you
    shouldn't. But when there's lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit by some
    lawyer trying to hit the jackpot, we've got a problem. Because guess
    what's happening? These docs are having to pay higher premiums, which
    means you're having to pay higher rates. And a lot of docs have just had
    it. They're tired of practicing medicine.
        There can be balance in the system. There can be fairness in the
    legal system. And you need a President who understands that. I'm going
    to continue to make--to battle for medical liability reform at the
    Federal level so people have got access to good and affordable health
    care.
        Two other points I want to make, then we're going to talk to Tim
    Rice. Loosen up, buddy. [Laughter] Two other
    points. You can't run a business if you don't know if you're going to
    have reliable energy supplies. That's just the way it is. For this
    country to keep jobs here at home, we've got to make sure we're the best
    place in the world to invest capital and do business. And until we get
    an energy policy, there's going to be doubt in the minds of the
    investors. I'll tell you why. If you're a manufacturer and you're
    worried about the reliability of electricity, you're not going to be
    confident in investing in the future. If you're worried about the cost
    of natural gas, it's going to make you less willing to invest.
        I submitted a plan to the United States Congress that says we'll do
    a better job of conserving energy--and we need to do that, and we will--
    we need to look for alternative sources of energy, and we're doing that.
    And we need to make sure that we--but we need to make sure we use our
    energy sources at home in a wise way. We can burn coal in clean ways. We
    can explore for natural gas in environmentally friendly ways. If we
    expect people to work here in America, if we expect for this to be a
    place where people are willing to invest capital--people like Joe--we
    need to have an energy strategy that makes us less dependent on foreign
    sources of energy.
        And finally, I know there's a lot of talk about trade, and there
    should be. It's an important discussion. But let me remind you, just to
    make sure you put the facts in perspective here. America has opened up
    its markets for years. Presidents from both political parties said it's
    a good thing for our consumers to have more products coming into the
    United States. You know why? If consumers have more choices, consumers
    are going to get better quality at better price. That's how the
    marketplace works. And so we've been a country that said, ``Sure, come
    on, sell your goods here, compete.'' The more competition it is for your
    demand, the better deal you're going to get. That's just the way it is
    in the marketplace. ``Please come and compete.''
        The problem is, we haven't said the same thing to other countries.
    In other words, the job of the President--and this is exactly what I'm
    doing--is to say, ``Our market is open. You open yours.'' All I'm saying
    is, give our workers and farmers and ranchers and manufacturers and
    entrepreneurs a level playing field, and we can compete with anybody,
    anytime, anyplace.
        I'm running to make America a stronger place, and I've got a vision
    as to how to make sure this is the best place for the Joe Colwins of
    America to succeed and, therefore, his associates to succeed with him.
    That's what this is all about.
        Now let me introduce you to Tim Rice. Tim,
    thanks for coming. Tim is a guy who works here at Mid-States, right? How
    long have you worked here for, Tim?
        Tim Rice. I started in May, sir, following
    graduation from the University of Wisconsin.
        The President. Congratulations on getting out of college.
    Barbara just graduated too.

    [[Page 1325]]

        Mr. Rice. Thank you, sir.
        The President. He started in May. It's a pretty
    good sign, isn't it? The economy is growing; otherwise he wouldn't be
    starting in May. He might have been starting in May of 1997.
        And so, what were you doing before?
        Mr. Rice. Prior to that, I spent 4 years in the
    United States Air Force, active duty, and then went to school.
        The President. Thanks, yes. I know I'm prying into your business,
    but are you making more money now than you were?
        Mr. Rice. Absolutely. [Laughter]
        The President. That's good. Like, one dollar more? Two times more?
        Mr. Rice. Two times more.
        The President. Yes, he's making two times more
    money. What he did was he got an education and found a higher-paying
    job. Let me tell you, the reason I want--this is an interesting story--
    is because there is a direct corollary between higher wages and
    education. We're going to talk about what it means to have--be retrained
    for the jobs of the 21st century in a minute. But it's essential for our
    country to understand that the job base is changing as our economy
    changes, and that requires people to get education. And one of the
    focuses of my administration has been and will continue to be to make
    sure people are trained for the jobs of the 21st century.
        Now, Tim went back to college, a 4-year degree,
    and now he makes double what he was making before. People have got to
    understand that means he's a more productive worker, and he's ready for
    the new jobs. Let me tell you something about Tim. He saved $2,400 in
    tax relief in '03, 2,400 in '04--is that correct?
        Mr. Rice. That's correct.
        The President. And so, like, what are you doing with all that money?
    [Laughter]
        Mr. Rice. I spent 7 years working and going to
    school before I graduated. I didn't see a lot of my family. I was able
    to take 3 months off of work before I graduated just to go to school and
    spend time with my family.
        The President. That's good. If you're a dad, your most important
    responsibility is to love your children with all your heart and your
    soul. That's what he just told us; isn't it? I
    thank you for that.
        Let me tell you something about this tax relief plan. The reason
    I've saved these examples for the end, it's important to know that parts
    of this tax relief are going to expire. And the reason I've asked
    Tim and Deb and others
    to come is because the Members of Congress and the Senate sometimes
    forget that when we're talking about tax relief, we're actually talking
    about it affecting people's pocketbooks in a positive way. See, I know
    that 2,400 doesn't sound like a lot to some of them in Washington. Ask
    Tim if it's a lot. I asked him. And he said, ``You bet it's a lot.'' And
    if they don't pass tax relief, his tax burden is going to go up by
    $1,100. In other words, that's $1,100 less money in his pocket for he
    and his family to decide what to do with it.
        Here's what I think about tax relief. I think you set priorities. I
    think you're wise with the people's money. But I think you've got to
    understand that Tim can spend his money far better than the Federal
    Government can.
        Thanks for coming. Go ahead. Thanks, Tim.
        Deb Winterhack is with us. All right,
    Deb. Let her go.
        Deb Winterhack. Hi.
        The President. Married?
        Mrs. Winterhack. Married.
        The President. How many children?
        Mrs. Winterhack. I have three--one in
    college, one on their way to college.
        The President. See, I told her I thought
    she was fooling me when she told me. [Laughter]
        Mrs. Winterhack. Yes, well, I feel it.
    [Laughter]
        The President. Are they here?

    [[Page 1326]]

        Mrs. Winterhack. No, they're at
    Williamsport Baseball Tournament.
        The President. Really?
        Mrs. Winterhack. Yes, starts today.
        The President. You're a Little League mom?
        Mrs. Winterhack. I'm a Little League mom.
        The President. I was raised by a Little League mom. [Laughter] The difference is, is that my mother's
    hair turned white. [Laughter]
        Mrs. Winterhack. Mine probably did too.
    [Laughter]
        The President. No, no. All right, tell us what you do and what you
    were doing. She works----
        Mrs. Winterhack. I'm at--I'm an
    admissions director here at Fond du Lac at ManorCare, HCR ManorCare.
    Previously, I was a web technology salesperson in Beaverton, Wisconsin,
    so totally took my web technology to--totally out in left field to
    health care. So I just wanted to get into health care. I just loved it.
        The President. Yes, let me tell you something about health care. I'm
    sorry to interrupt, and you can tell us how you got into health care.
    [Laughter]
        Mrs. Winterhack. That's okay.
        The President. We haven't rehearsed this too well--[laughter].
        Mrs. Winterhack. No, I just met him.
    [Laughter]
        The President. She's doing the fox trot,
    and I'm doing the twist. [Laughter] Anyway--they still do the twist?
    [Laughter] I know, a little odd. There's a lot of jobs in health care. I
    remember going down to North Carolina where there's--where the textile
    industry reigned, and then the textile industry couldn't compete. People
    started losing jobs in the textile industry. But guess what happened?
    The health industry started to expand--better-paying jobs. And the
    challenge in this case in North Carolina and the challenge elsewhere is
    going to be to take people who have got one set of skills and train them
    for the jobs that now exist. That's the real challenge.
        I am a big backer of the community college system in America. And I
    think we ought to help people go to community colleges to train for the
    jobs of the 21st century. Community colleges provide education that is
    accessible and affordable. And guess what happens at community colleges?
    They change their curriculum to meet the needs of the times. And that's
    what we're going to continue to use community colleges for in a wise
    way.
        What happened with you?

    [Mrs. Winterhack made further remarks.]

        The President. See, a lot of corporations do the responsible thing
    and train people for the jobs--they took Deb--she was obviously a smart person and capable person and
    motivated person. What Government can't do is say, ``Deb, go motivate
    yourself.'' That's up to you. That's something Government cannot do. She
    wanted to improve her salary.
        Mrs. Winterhack. The salary went up quite
    a bit, so--well, $8,000. So that was a great jump for me.
        The President. She became a productive
    worker for the jobs which now exist and are expanding. If people are
    looking for work, think about the health care industry. Now, you're
    going to have to go back and get some schooling. But there's help all
    across our Government. There's all kinds of assistance to help people
    get reeducated, and that's a good use of taxpayers' money, by the way.
        The thing about Deb is, is that--two
    things happened to her: One, she retrained and gets more money; and two,
    the tax relief came along, which means she's got more after-tax money in
    her pocket. She's got more of her own money to spend. And if Congress
    does not make the tax relief permanent, she's paying an increase of $900
    next year, and that doesn't make any sense.

    [[Page 1327]]

        So thanks for coming. You got anything else you want to say? Here's
    your chance.
        Mrs. Winterhack. Four more years.
    [Laughter]
        The President. That's good. Thank you. Glad I called on you.
    [Laughter]
        All right, we've got Mark and Wendy
    Bodden, the last family that's with us. Thanks
    for coming. We're honored you all are here. Who do you got with you?

    [The discussion continued.]

        The President. The reasons I've asked the
    Boddens here--here again, this is an example of
    what I'm talking about, why tax relief matters. You see, a lot of times
    they throw around numbers in Washington, but they forget the stories
    behind the numbers. I've asked them to come because I want the Members
    of the United States Senate and the Congress to understand the effects
    of bad policy on these people. It's bad policy to be raising their taxes
    right now. You can find every excuse in the book, believe me--this needs
    to happen, that needs to happen, this, that, or the other. I think it's
    important that they have enough money so that they're able to realize
    their dreams.
        It's not unrealistic. We've got plenty of money in Washington.
    Listen, we can reduce our deficit in half if we're wise--over 5 years--
    if we're wise about how you spend--we spend your money. We can reduce
    the deficit in half and still fund the war on terror and protect the
    homeland. We just can't meet every single political promise that people
    feel comfortable throwing out. And it's a dangerous time--it's an
    election year--and you're going to hear every promise in the book.
    That's what you're going to hear.
        If these people saved--how much did you save in '03 and '04?
        Mr. Bodden. I believe it was $1,700.
        The President. Yes--$1,700 in '03, $1,700 in '04. Now, that's like
    extra money. So what did you do?
        Mr. Bodden. Well, it's very important to us
    that our children attend a Catholic school for education, and we put it
    into tuition.
        The President. Did you? Good. That's good.
        Mr. Bodden. Very happy. Thank you for that.
        The President. That's a wise use of extra money, isn't it, educating
    your children. By the way, if Congress doesn't respond, the child credit
    is going down, the marriage penalty is going up, and the 10-percent
    bracket is gone, which means these people are going to have to pay $700
    additional tax. In other words, the tax burden goes up by $700. That
    doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense from an economic perspective.
    See, the more money you have in your pocket, the more you're going to
    spend. And when you spend it, you ask for an additional good or a
    service. You heard what Joe--Joe feels confident
    he's going to spend additional. So are other consumers with more money
    in their pocket.
        It also doesn't make sense because these people are saving for their
    kids' education. They're paying for their kids' education. Congress must
    listen to the voices of people like Mark and
    Wendy. Got any voice to tell Congress?
    [Laughter]
        Mr. Bodden. We appreciate the extra money.
    [Laughter]
        The President. Yes, well, that's good. I want to thank you for
    coming. The reason I've asked these good folks to come--thanks for
    coming--is I just wanted to make it--I just wanted people to have a
    sense for why I made the decisions I made and ask Congress to join me--a
    sense for how to make America a stronger place. I understand how this
    economy works, and I've got great faith in the entrepreneurs and
    consumers of our country. And I believe that the consumers make better
    decisions, oftentimes, than the Government makes. And that's why the tax
    relief package came at the right time. And that's why it's important to
    reject raising taxes on people right now.

    [[Page 1328]]

        In order to make sure America is a stronger place, we've got to have
    good, sound tax policy. Joe needs certainty in
    the Tax Code. We need good legal reform, good health care, good trade
    policy. Most of all, you need to have a President who understands that
    the role of Government is not to create wealth; the role of Government
    is to create an environment in which the entrepreneur and small-business
    man and farmer can flourish, and that is me.
        All right, let me answer some questions. I hope you've got a sense
    that I want the job for 4 more years, and I've got a plan to make sure
    the country is safer, stronger, and better. That's really what I'm here
    to tell you, that I know where I want to lead this country.
        Let me answer some questions, and then we're going to get back on
    the bus and take it up the highway. Who has got a question? Yes, sir.
    Yell it--oh, there's a mike.

    USA PATRIOT Act

        Q. The PATRIOT Act----
        The President. PATRIOT Act.
        Q. The PATRIOT Act is due to expire----
        The President. Yes.
        Q. ----coming next year. And I find that an important tool for
    protecting America. And in Wisconsin here, we have Senator Russ
    Feingold, as you're aware, the only Senator to vote against the PATRIOT
    Act. Wondering if you can tell us all here the importance of the PATRIOT
    Act and what we can do to help get that renewed.
        The President. Let me--that's a great question. A couple of things
    that are very important for you to understand about the PATRIOT Act.
    First of all, any action that takes place by law enforcement requires a
    court order. In other words, the Government can't move on wiretaps or
    roving wiretaps without getting a court order.
        Now, we've used things like roving wiretaps on drug dealers before.
    Roving wiretaps mean you change your cell phone. And yet, we weren't
    able to use roving wiretaps on terrorists. And so what the PATRIOT Act
    said is, let's give our law enforcement the tools necessary, without
    abridging the Constitution of the United States, the tools necessary to
    defend America.
        Secondly, the PATRIOT Act now allows intelligence gathering and law
    enforcement segments of the FBI to discuss cases with each other. You're
    not going to believe this--at least I didn't believe it--that the FBI,
    the branch involved with intelligence--in other words, who might be
    coming into the country, who might be--who somebody suspects might do us
    harm--could not discuss a case with the law enforcement division of the
    FBI. There was a wall between the two, which meant we could not share
    information, readily share information.
        The most important way to protect the homeland is to be able to get
    good intelligence and share that intelligence with those responsible for
    protecting the American people. And yet, the laws prevented us from
    doing that. And the PATRIOT Act wisely broke down that law so that those
    people responsible for defending you or finding information to defend
    you can better do their jobs. This was a practical application of law
    that did not take anybody's rights away.
        And the PATRIOT Act is indispensable for the defense of this
    country. You ask anybody involved with law enforcement; they will tell
    you that the law protects the constitutional rights of our citizens and,
    at the same time, enables them to better do their job. We need to have
    the PATRIOT Act renewed so that the people of America can be better
    protected by the hard-working folks of this country. I appreciate that
    question.
        Yes, sir. It's going to be a duo. Why don't you both ask the
    questions at the same time, and I'll answer the one I want to.
    [Laughter]

    [[Page 1329]]

    Promoting Job Growth

        Q. I'm wondering, when you're elected in November, how are you going
    to continue job growth over the next 4 years?
        The President. Yes, I appreciate that. Were you asleep? No--
    [laughter]. That's an unfair question. No, I know. Good tax policy,
    fiscal discipline in Washington, DC, fair trade policy, legal reforms,
    good health care policy, and job training is the best way to make sure
    America is a place where people can find a job. That's what you've got
    to figure out--how to create the environment for job growth and
    opportunity so people can find work.
        Okay.

    Support for U.S. Troops/War on Terror

        Q. Small-business owner, entrepreneur, and an Army veteran, went to
    school with the G.I. Bill, put all--everything I learned in the Army
    into work, into the business. But it breaks my heart when I see all the
    soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq doing fantastic things, as you
    mentioned when you initially came out here--they come home; they put the
    television on; and they just see horrible news of what's going on, a
    completely different perspective of what they have done during their
    tour of duty. What can I do as an American citizen to show my
    appreciation? I tell them every single time, ``Thank you for your
    service,'' whenever I see them in uniform. But what can I do to go that
    extra mile to show my appreciation to them?
        The President. I appreciate you saying that. Look, the best thing
    you can do is what you're doing. And there are a lot of people like you
    who understand the stakes and the hard work. Thanks for saying that. And
    it's really to thank people in the uniform. It really is. It's--and you
    can't--I can't tell you how far that goes when you take time out of your
    life to say, ``Thank you for your service.'' That's the best thing you
    can do. I could be self-serving--the best thing you could do is put me
    in again, but it's--but, no, I appreciate that spirit. And, listen,
    what's going to matter in the long run is that these troops come back
    and realize they've made a significant contribution to this country's
    safety and to peace and freedom.
        Let me remind you all of something, speaking about what we're doing.
    You know, there were a lot of skeptics after World War II as to whether
    or not what America was doing would work. What we were doing was trying
    to rebuild Germany and work for democracy in Germany. What we were doing
    was trying to rebuild--or help Japan rebuild herself and there be a
    democracy there. After fighting these countries and after losing lives
    in a war against them, the United States of America--at least my
    predecessors--made the decision to rebuild those countries into
    democratic nations or at least to help them rebuild themselves. That was
    the decision we made. And there were a lot of skeptics. There were a lot
    of people who said it couldn't be done. The plans weren't working. And
    it took a long time, and it was hard, hard work.
        You know, there were skeptics who said, ``Well, the Japanese,
    they'll never be able to self-govern. After all, they're not Anglo-
    Saxon, or they're not Methodists, or I don't know.'' There was a lot of
    skepticism about whether they could self-govern. And there's still that
    skepticism today. There are some who I'm confident doubt whether or not
    a Muslim nation can self-govern. We don't doubt that in America. You
    see, we understand liberty. Thankfully, my predecessors did not fall
    prey to pessimistic attitudes after World War II, because today Germany
    and Japan are allies in the war on terror.
        It came home to me very vividly when I was having dinner with Prime
    Minister Koizumi, who, by the way, loves
    Elvis--anyway--[laughter]. And so we were--guess what we were talking
    about? We were talking about how to keep the peace. The Prime Minister
    of a former enemy is sitting down with the President of the

    [[Page 1330]]

    United States talking about how to keep the peace. Had my predecessors
    fallen prey to the pessimism about the ability of liberty to change
    societies for the better, I don't know whether I'd have been having that
    discussion. We were talking about Kim Chong-il
    in North Korea and the danger he poses to free societies in the Far
    East. That's because people after World War II had great faith in what
    America believes and what America stands for.
        It's really important for the families of the service men and women
    overseas to hear the message that the work that their loved ones are
    doing are essential to America's freedom and to peace, to long-term
    peace, because free societies are peaceful societies. Free societies
    listen to the hopes and aspirations of the people. Societies which are
    not free are those which breed resentment and hatred, and it gets
    bottled up and sometimes it doesn't manifest itself overnight, but it
    will manifest itself. And now it's manifesting itself in the form of
    terror.
        Now, let me--just one other thing I want to share with you, now that
    I got me going here. [Laughter] This is called a filibuster. Anyway--
    [laughter]--not really. Anyway, the battle is a battle of ideology.
    Think about the Taliban. It's an ideology that is radical in nature,
    that doesn't believe in women's rights, human rights, human dissent,
    political dissent. It's dim. It is backward. These people have hijacked
    a religion. I don't think they're religious people. I don't think you
    order suiciders to kill innocent men, women, and children if you're a
    religious person. I think your heart has been corroded. But that's the--
    and the alternative of that is freedom. That's the alternative, is a
    free society.
        Now, these radicals use terror as a weapon. They know our good
    hearts. They know America has a--a country of conscience. We're really
    decent people, very loving people. And they know we hate the death of
    innocents. But that's why their terror tool is so effective, because
    they'll kill anybody, anytime. See, they're trying to shake our will.
    That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to drive us from the
    world because they want their dim vision of the world to spread.
        They don't know our country. We will not be intimidated by these
    types. We will do our duty. We will remember the lessons of the past.
    And someday, an American President is going to be sitting down with a
    duly elected leader of Iraq talking about how to keep the peace. And
    they're going to say, ``Thank God this generation didn't fold under
    pressure, had a clear vision.''
        All right, little guy, what you got? Here's your chance. You've got
    something for me?

    Support for the President

        Q. [Inaudible] I love you.
        The President. I think he said, ``Four more years.'' I'm not sure.
        Yes, ma'am.

    2004 Election

        Q. Thank you for coming to Wisconsin, Mr. President. And we know
    that you're in a tough race for reelection, very, very tough, and the
    future of America is at stake. What can all of us here do to help you
    and Dick Cheney be sure to be reelected?
        The President. Thank you very much. Listen, I'll tell you what you
    can do. Thanks. We are in a tough race, and that's okay. I like to get
    out and campaign. I mean, I think a good, healthy debate about vision
    and philosophy is important. And I think it's important for people to
    get out--outside of Washington and ask for the vote.
        And that's what I'm doing now, and it's what I'm going to continue
    to do to election day. I've got the energy; I've got the drive; I've got
    the will to be your President. And I need your help. And the help you
    can do is register people to vote. And don't be afraid to find
    discerning Democrats and independents. There's a difference of
    philosophy that is emerging. People see a clear difference--clear
    difference of attitude,

    [[Page 1331]]

    clear difference of vision, clear difference of how to get there. And
    register people. And then when we're coming down the stretch, get them
    to vote.
        Listen, the race in 2000 in Wisconsin was very close, if you really
    think about it. Not many votes per precinct separated me and my
    opponent. And so, obviously, the more people per precinct we get to the
    polls, the easier it is to carry the State of Wisconsin, which is a
    crucial battleground State. It's a crucial State. I'm going to spend a
    lot of time here, thankfully. It's a good place to come. Thank you.
        Yes, sir.

    Energy

        Q. Mr. President----
        The President. I thought for a minute we had John Glenn here. [Laughter]
        Q. You know what, Mr. President, I've been accused of that before.
    [Laughter]
        The President. He's a good man.
        Q. Thank you. You touched on energy a little earlier in your speech,
    and I'm just wondering what your views are on renewable energy such as
    ethanol, biodiesel, wind power.
        The President. Yes, I may--when I talked about alternative sources
    of energy, that's what I was referring to. As a matter of fact, it is a
    grand vision to think about a President saying--reading the corn harvest
    and saying, ``Oh, they're up, and now we're less dependent on foreign
    sources of energy.'' I mean, it would be a fantastic moment for any
    President to know that we can grow our way out of dependence.
        And I'm a believer in ethanol--said so in the 2000 campaign, and
    it's an integral part of the energy bill. And I'm for spending money on
    research and development for biomass, and it makes sense. And maybe
    someday, wind energy will be competitive.
        As a matter of fact, really what you're asking about is, can we--at
    least the way I put it is, can we manage our way through the short term
    until technology changes how we use energy? And I think we're talking
    about maybe a decade. Remember, I put out the hydrogen fuel cell
    alternative, asked for Congress to spend money for research and
    development. Someday, American automobiles will be powered by hydrogen.
    And that's going to be a fantastic change, which will make us less
    dependent on foreign sources of energy.
        We're in a transition period. Someday, hopefully, we'll find a
    better way to use nuclear power that people have confidence in. Someday,
    our clean coal technologies will give people more confidence in burning
    coal. In other words, we're making changes as to how we use energy and
    how we supply energy. And we're in a period of transition, and I believe
    technology is going to change. And the fundamental question is, are we
    able to grow our economy until it does? And I think we can do so in a
    balanced way.
        But, no, I can't think of anything better for the future than to
    say, ``Gosh, the corn crop is up, and now we have to buy less foreign
    sources of energy.'' But in the meantime, we're hooked. We import over
    60 percent--or about 50-something percent of our energy supplies. And
    that means we've got to have a short-term energy policy that makes sense
    until technology changes.
        And that's what you're seeing; you really are. You're seeing a
    changing world. And it's going to be an exciting time for people to be
    driving different kind of automobiles. It's just going to happen. It's
    just a function of when. And our job is to speed up the ``when'' by
    research and development money.
        Yes, sir.

    Visit to Fond du Lac

        Q. Mr. President, on behalf of the city of Fond du Lac, I'm the
    president of the city council----
        The President. Thank you, Councilman.
    Thank you for serving.

    [[Page 1332]]

        Q. We are totally honored to have you here today, and you're welcome
    back anytime you want to come.
        The President. Thank you, Councilman.
        Q. My question----
        The President. I thought it was going to be the classic, like,
    where's the key? [Laughter]
        Q. Well, we gave one to your dad when he was here in '92.
        The President. That's why I'm asking, you know? [Laughter] I don't--
    I'm not sure the message.
        Q. I wasn't on the agenda. I tried.
        The President. Okay, good. [Laughter]

    Insurance Costs for Small Businesses/Health Care Reform

        Q. My question is, I'm a commercial lender for a bank in Oshkosh,
    and I see a lot of small-businesses' financials, and their biggest
    expense is the increase in insurance costs.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. Do you have anything in mind to reduce the medical insurance and
    other insurance costs going forward?
        The President. Yes, I do. I mean, for example, you heard me explain
    the association health care plans. Now, what that means is, is that a
    company like Joe's can pool his risk with other
    like companies that exist in other States. You can't do that now. Like,
    if you're a restaurant owner here at Fond du Lac and you have 20
    employees, you're now going to the marketplace and you've got to buy
    insurance for your 20 employees. And therefore, you're not able to pool
    risk. In other words, the more people you can--you insure, the better
    premiums you get because you're spreading risk.
        And so we've got to let the restauranteur here or the Joes across
    the country pool risk. In other words, they can lump together as an
    association and then go to the insurance company and say, ``Look, we've
    now got not 20 employees, insure a million employees.'' And that's a
    better way to be able to control risk than the alternative, which is to
    have the Federal Government try to control price, which means, they're
    the decisionmakers. You don't want that, believe me.
        Secondly, we've got what's called health savings accounts. These are
    all set up for small-business owners, by the way, to make a better deal
    for their employees. You put money in tax-free; you accumulate money in
    the account tax-free; you withdraw it tax-free--all to pay ongoing
    medical costs, ordinary medical costs and, as well, is you buy yourself
    a catastrophic plan.
        So, in other words, on an annual basis, you're contributing tax-free
    or the company contributes for the employee, so the employee is the
    decisionmaker. It's in the employee's interest that they make wise
    decisions. In other words, you don't want to purchase too much health
    care. In other words if you go to the doctor here, doctor there,
    doctor--into the office--so you start asking questions, ``Do I really
    need this?''
        And so the employee--the customer makes the decisions. The customer
    shops. And if you don't spend more than you put in, that's your money.
    You roll it over. So you've got catastrophic to take care of major
    medical expenses, and you've got tax incentives to encourage you to make
    the right decisions.
        And thirdly, medical liability reform is the way to control costs.
        Two other things I want to talk about. One of the things we've done
    is we've expanded what's called community health centers all across the
    country. These are very--it's a wise use of taxpayers' money. It's like
    primary care facilities for people who can't afford insurance. It takes
    people out of the emergency rooms and puts them into a primary care
    facility so they get the help they need.
        And the other thing is--that Tommy and
    I are working on is we're trying to modernize health care, which is
    going to save people a lot of money. This is now--still a system in
    which people carry paper files

    [[Page 1333]]

    from one appointment to the next. Sometimes they literally don't carry
    them, but your files are on paper. And it leads to medical error when
    things are handwritten, particularly if a doc has handwritten it.
    [Laughter] Or something is amiss in the files. And yet, most businesses
    these days are able to put their files on the--use the Internet to be
    able to have better efficiency with their files and paperwork, better
    cost savings when it comes to recordkeeping.
        And so what Tommy and I are working on is what they call electronic
    medical records. Everybody is going to have an electronic medical record
    that you'll be able to carry with you, that you'll be able to send to
    whoever you want to send. It will cost--it will reduce cost in the
    health care system, and it will reduce errors in the health care system.
    And it makes eminent sense for the health care industry to get into the
    21st century. It's stuck in the past.
        So there are some--there are ways right there, practical ways to
    work on the cost of health care so that health care is more affordable
    to the small-business owners in America. And we're making progress.
    There's a battle in Washington; I readily concede it. And the battle is,
    do the consumers and docs make the decision, or does the Government make
    the decision? And it's a philosophical argument. And you know where I
    come down. I'm on the side of the consumers and the marketplace for best
    controlling the cost of health care.
        Yes, you've got a question? Let her rip.

    Right To Vote

        Q. Okay. Hi, Mr. President.
        The President. Hi.
        Q. I'm 18, and this will be my first time I can vote.
        The President. Okay, let me stop you right there. I'm the first guy
    to ask for your vote. [Laughter] Remember that when you get in the
    booth. [Laughter]
        Q. All right, so this will be my first time being--Presidential
    voting. And I was wondering, since everyone has the right to vote, do
    you think there should be something so that everybody has to vote, so
    then you get more of a majority?
        The President. Yes, no, I appreciate that. I just don't think it's
    going to work, you know--compulsory voting. I wish everybody would vote.
    But it's a right--it's a right. It's like the right to worship the way
    you want to worship. It's a right. I just don't think compulsory voting
    would work. I'm not sure what the penalty is.
        I mean, it's--so, therefore, the thing we've got to do--thanks for
    bringing this up because it gives me a chance to remind people about
    their solemn duty, in my judgment, to go to the polls. Of course, I want
    everybody to be for me. I know it's not going to be the case, but I'm
    still urging people to vote. I want there to be widespread voter
    participation. It is--here we are working in Afghanistan, convincing the
    people of Afghanistan to go vote; we ought to be doing the same thing in
    our own country.
        So I--both candidates--I'm confident my opponent is doing the same
    thing, and it's the right thing to do. Part of traveling the country is
    to say, ``Listen, you have a duty. Get your neighbors to go vote.
    Please, go vote.''
        And so thanks for bringing that up. But, no, I don't see how you can
    get compulsory voting because I'm not sure what the consequences.
        Yes.

    Usama bin Laden/War on Terror/Intelligence Capabilities

        Q. Mr. President?
        The President. Yes, ma'am.
        Q. Do you have an updates on the whereabouts or possible capture of
    Usama bin Laden?
        The President. Thank you for bringing that up. I tell you, if I
    knew, I wouldn't tell you. [Laughter] I'd be telling our forces which
    are stationed over there. He's on the run.
    He is, best guess, in the remote regions of Pakistan or Afghanistan, up
    there

    [[Page 1334]]

    in kind of the--in the mountainous regions there, best guess. I really
    don't know.
        I do know that the organization is--got the ability to kind of exist
    without his physical presence. In other words, there's command--there's
    commanders that are able to rise up even though we may capture a
    previous commander. Khalid Sheik Mohammed no longer is--somebody took his place. They tend to be
    decentralized at times. This guy, Zarqawi, operating out of Iraq, we call him an affiliate of Al
    Qaida. We're not sure he has sworn allegiance to Al Qaida, but he gets
    instructions from Al Qaida. They deal with Al Qaida. We've intercepted
    an e-mail, as you might remember, of Zarqawi to Al Qaida types in remote
    parts of Pakistan--I think it's where the e-mail came from. At any rate,
    it talked about how Zarqawi was to incite Shi'a-Sunni violence in Iraq
    so that a civil war would stop the advance of freedom. In other words,
    there was a dialog between the two.
        My point to you is, is that there are these kind of loosely
    affiliated cells along with direct chains of command that we're dealing
    with all over the world. And we've got a lot of intelligence
    cooperation. I mean, in order--this is a--I remember after September the
    11th, this is a different kind of war. I remember specifically telling
    the country that. Sometimes you'll see action; sometimes you won't see
    action. It's a different kind of a contest. It requires good
    intelligence.
        Let me talk about our intelligence right quick. Listen, I thought we
    would find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction because the Agency
    thought we would. And we didn't. But what we have known and found is
    that Saddam Hussein had the capability of
    producing weapons. In other words, he had the capacity, and he was a
    sworn enemy.
        And so the fundamental--listen, I'm--I know we did the right thing.
    We did the right thing for our security for the country. But the
    question the country must ask is, how do we make sure we have the best
    intelligence possible? That will be the next important discussion in
    Washington, DC. And I welcome it. Look, I want great intelligence. I
    can't do my job, we can't find people hiding in remote caves unless
    we've got good intelligence. That means more human intelligence; it
    means better electronic intelligence. We want to be able to listen to
    people better. It means to make sure there's better coordination inside
    Washington. And I'm convinced that out of the recent investigations will
    come a better system so that this President and future Presidents will
    be able to do as good a job as we possibly can for the American people.
        Let me also remind you, however, that the CIA has had some great
    successes. Let me tell you one right quick, because I want the CIA
    agents who work for America to understand how much I appreciate their
    sacrifice and service and dedication. A.Q. Khan was a citizen of Pakistan who was a prominent
    scientist. A.Q. Khan went in the business of selling secret nuclear
    information, know-how, processing, to countries like Libya, Iran, and
    North Korea, and we caught him. And we penetrated his network--we--these
    are brave citizens of the United States--penetrated his network and
    exposed it to the world. And one of the great proliferators of weapon of
    mass destruction technology is no longer a threat to the United States
    and the free world. We've got some really good people working hard for
    the American people.
        Yes. Go ahead and yell it out.

    Minimum Wage

        Q. [Inaudible]--Restaurant Group, of which we are--we have 370
    employees throughout 10 restaurants. Senator Kennedy's minimum wage
    increase amendment that he's proposing is detrimental to small business.
    As a family-owned small-business owner, labor costs is one of our most--
    it's our most detrimental cost. And as labor costs go up, we are forced
    to cut jobs,

    [[Page 1335]]

    raise prices, and it's a domino effect. I want to know your opinion on
    the minimum wage.
        The President. My opinion is, is that I think there is a reasonable
    level to which we can raise the minimum wage and, at the same time, make
    sure small businesses are not penalized. And Mitch McConnell is working on such an idea on the Senate floor, and I'm
    going to continue working with Mitch.
        No, I understand what you're saying. It's very important that we
    have a wage policy which does not price people out of jobs. And so I'm
    confident that if there is a minimum wage increase, it will, one, be
    reasonable, and two, will make sure small businesses aren't hurt.
        Yes, sir.

    Marriage/Education/Faith-Based Programs

        Q. Mr. President, I'd like to thank you for making this country
    stronger and making me a better dad in helping to support my family as
    well.
        The President. Thanks. Yes. You know what: I can't make you a better
    dad. That's up to you. Thanks for saying that, but it's really your job.
        Q. I'd like to also thank your daughter for giving you up for 8
    years.
        The President. Thanks, yes. [Laughter] Thanks for saying that.
        Q. I'm executive director of a faith-based organization, and we
    direct--try to redirect the lives of delinquent and at-risk youth from
    the inner city. And we get a lot of young men from Milwaukee. I want to
    thank you for your efforts and leadership on faith-based organizations,
    but particularly, we have a dear gentleman in this country, a comedian,
    Bill Cosby, who has really taken some leadership interest and throwing
    some different punchlines towards the community and the inner city and
    looking at the social culture of our cities. And as a compassionate
    conservative, I'd like to get your views and your vision on how to work
    with the social culture and lead that inner city into a brighter future.
        The President. Yes, I think that, first of all, I believe that
    families are a very important part of a stable future. And I believe
    that it's very important for Government to promote and stand on the side
    of families.
        You know, we're having a debate in Washington, and it needs to be a
    very sensitive, thoughtful debate as to the nature of family. I have
    made my position clear. I believe that a traditional marriage--marriage
    between a man and woman--is an important part of stable families.
    [Applause] Thank you. I, again, to repeat, I want this debate to be a
    thoughtful debate. It needs to be a sensitive debate. But I feel
    strongly about what I just said.
        Secondly, the Government must work to strengthen family. Part of our
    welfare reform law was to encourage families to stay together. We put
    money aside--Tommy worked on this; it's a very important part of the
    law--to encourage people to stay together. Part of a stable society
    anywhere, whether it be in rural America or inner-city America, is for
    families to stay together.
        Secondly, education. You know, a lot of inner-city schools are
    schools that, for some reason or another, quit on kids. They just
    shuffle them through. Maybe people said, ``They're too hard to educate,
    therefore, let's just move them through.'' There's no doubt in my mind,
    when implemented, the No Child Left Behind Act is going to say to each
    child: ``We believe in your worth. We believe in your talents.'' There's
    extra money, by the way, for Title I kids. ``We're raising the bar.
    We're going to measure to determine whether or not you've got the skills
    necessary to read and write and add and subtract. And if you don't,
    we'll correct them early.'' That's what the message is. I think that's
    going to help make inner city a much more hopeful place, just like it
    will make rural America a much more hopeful place.

    [[Page 1336]]

        Thirdly, many of the kids that you talk about need love. And I think
    it's the role of Government to encourage loving institutions to be more
    likely to interface with those who need help. What the--let me just tell
    you what it means. It means we're opening up Federal monies to grants to
    faith-based institutions. There was an argument in our country that said
    we couldn't do that, see. We couldn't do that. It would blur the line of
    church and state. Listen, I strongly believe in the separation of church
    and state. The church shouldn't be the state, and the state shouldn't be
    the church. On the other hand, I do think it's important for people in
    positions like I'm in to say, ``Does the program work?'' In other words,
    ``Does it have a social objective?''--for example, mentoring kids who
    need help. They need love in their lives. That's an objective. And
    therefore, we ought to ask how best to achieve the objective. And if
    it's a faith-based program that is better able to do that objective, I
    don't see anything wrong with making Federal monies accessible to that
    faith-based program.
        And it must be done--the program must be done without causing the
    program not to be able to practice its faith, see. How can you be a
    faith-based program if the Government says you can't practice faith? You
    can't be. And one of the interesting challenges we have faced is that
    faith-based programs were fearful of interfacing with Federal
    bureaucracies because the bureaucracies say, ``Well, you can't have the
    Star of David on the wall or the cross on the wall. You can't have
    that.'' And so we have tried to change the culture in Washington.
        So there are three practical steps there: strengthening families,
    better education, and then unleashing the great compassion to help
    people such as yourself save lives. And it's working.
        Let me tell you something: The faith-based programs are beginning to
    take hold, and they're taking effect. We're getting more Federal money
    into the hands of the faith-based folks, what I call the social
    entrepreneurs, which are beginning to change people's lives in an
    incredibly positive way. And it's important to stay with the program
    because--as I can repeat; it sounds like a trite saying but it's not--
    the strength of the country is in the hearts and souls of the citizens.
        There are a million kids whose mom and dad is in prison--a mom or
    dad is in prison. Those are kids who've got a future that may not look
    so bright to them. It can be brightened by love; I'm telling you. It can
    be brightened by a mentor. It can be brightened by somebody who comes in
    their life and say, ``I love you, brother. What can I do to help you?
    How can I help you realize a better tomorrow?'' Now, that sounds like a
    heavy lift--million mentors--but when you think about how many churches
    there are and synagogues there are and mosques there are and community
    programs there are, we're not talking about that many people.
        And my job is to rally the people of the country and, at first, to
    understand the proper relationship between the Federal Government and
    the strength--you know, you hear people say, ``Oh, the great strength of
    the country is our Government.'' No, that's not me. I don't believe
    that. I think Government is an indispensable part of our country, but
    the great strength is the people's hearts. And as your President, I will
    continue to call upon people to serve their country by loving their
    neighbor. That's one of my most important jobs.
        Yes, buddy, last question. We've got to go up the road. A couple of
    questions. Fire away. Go ahead. Well, maybe they don't want you to ask
    the question.

    Education

        Q. Will you send more money for education----
        The President. Send more money in education----

    [[Page 1337]]

        Q. ----to help the kids get their lives--to help them go to college
    and get the money to help the people?
        The President. Yes. Very good. He wants to know about education
    funding. I think that's what it was, right? [Laughter] Or just money in
    general? Well, the best way to send money to the people is to let them
    keep their own money in the first place. We've increased Federal
    spending for elementary and secondary schools by over 40 percent since
    2001, which is a hefty increase. In other words, we're doing our duty.
    What's changed is we've said now, ``Show us whether or not the money is
    actually working.'' See, before we'd send money and then they wouldn't
    ask the question. Now we're asking that question, ``Can a child read,
    and if not, why?''
        In terms of Pell grants and education grants that help people,
    deserving people, go to college, we've increased that spending as well.
    We're doing our job. But I want to remind you when it comes to public
    education, the primary funder of public schools are the States and local
    jurisdictions. That's the way it has been in the past, and in my
    judgment, that's the way it ought to be. And the Federal Government can
    help with Title I students or IDEA funding, which is for disabled
    students. But it is the primary responsibility of your State government
    to make education the number one priority.
        When I ran for Governor of Texas, I said education is to a State
    what national defense is to the Federal Government. The primary
    responsibility of the State is to make sure that the public school
    system runs well. And the primary obligation of the State is to fund the
    schools so they go well. And the Federal Government provides a
    complementary role. That's the way it is now, and that's the way it is,
    so long as I'm going to be the President.
        One final question, and then I've got to hit the bus.

    Public Service

        Q. Mr. President, I'd like to welcome you to Wisconsin as well. And
    as an older mother of many children, we've tried to--we've had a number
    of kids that were interested in going into politics that were really
    turned off for a few years, but because of gentlemen like Tommy Thompson
    and yourself, we now have a son in politics, and we're very proud and
    also working for your benefit. Also, I heard you say that you'd like to
    return to Wisconsin. We have a great city about 40 miles from here, on
    the shores of Lake Michigan--Sheboygan--and we'd welcome you there with
    open arms.
        The President. Thank you. Let me talk about service. Thanks for
    bringing it up. There's obviously a proud mom, and that's neat that one
    of her children has chosen to go into public service. I encourage people
    to run and to go into public service. But I recognize not everybody is
    suited for it, and some people just aren't interested. But there's all
    kinds of ways to serve. It's just not--you don't have to be a candidate
    to serve. You can serve by loving your neighbor. You can serve by
    mentoring a child. You can serve your community by just walking across
    the street to a shut-in's home and saying, ``What can I do to make your
    day better?'' There are all kinds of ways to serve.
        I'm proud of your son for running. I think it's great. It's very
    important for people to step up and put their hat in the ring and get
    out there and mix it up. It's an exciting life. I mean, it's a--you've
    got to have a Type A personality, I recognize, but--[laughter]. Let me
    tell you something. I enjoy it. I enjoy being with people. I love the
    people of this country, and I love being with you today.
        Thanks for coming. May God bless you all.

    Note: The President spoke at 12:18 p.m. in the factory. In his remarks,
    he referred to

    [[Page 1338]]

    President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan; former President Saddam Hussein
    of Iraq; Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal, who was found dead in Baghdad,
    Iraq, on August 19, 2002; senior Al Qaida associate Abu Musab Al
    Zarqawi; Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of the Iraqi Interim Government;
    Col. Muammar Abu Minyar al-Qadhafi, leader of Libya; Prime Minister
    Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea; and
    Khalid Sheik Mohammed, senior Al Qaida leader responsible for planning
    the September 11, 2001, attack, who was captured in Pakistan on March 1,
    2003.