[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book I)]
[May 5, 2004]
[Pages 767-770]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Alhurra Television
May 5, 2004

Abuse of Iraqi Prisoners at Abu Ghraib Prison

    Q. Mr. President, thank you for agreeing to do this interview with 
us.

    Evidence of torture of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. personnel has left 
many Iraqis and people in the Middle East and the Arab world with the 
impression that the United States is no better than Saddam Hussein 
regime. Especially when this alleged torture took place in the Abu 
Ghraib prison, a symbol of torture of----

    The President. Yes.

    Q. What can the U.S. do, or what can you do to get out of this?

    The President. First, people in Iraq must understand that I view 
those practices as abhorrent. They must also understand that what took 
place in that prison does not represent America that I know. The America 
I know is a compassionate country that believes in freedom. The America 
I know cares about every individual. The America I know has sent troops 
into Iraq to promote freedom--good, honorable citizens that are helping 
the Iraqis every day.

    It's also important for the people of Iraq to know that in a 
democracy, everything is not perfect, that mistakes are made. But in a 
democracy as well those mistakes will be investigated, and people will 
be brought to justice. We're an open society. We're a society that is 
willing to investigate, fully investigate in this case, what took place 
in that prison.

    That stands in stark contrast to life under Saddam Hussein. His trained torturers were never brought to justice 
under his regime. There were no investigations about mistreatment of 
people. There will be investigations. People will be brought to justice.

Media Coverage/Investigations

    Q. When did you learn about the--did you see the pictures on TV? 
When was the first time you heard about----
    The President. Yes, the first time I saw or heard about pictures was 
on TV. However, as you might remember, in early January, General 
Kimmitt talked about a investigation that 
would be taking place about accused--alleged improprieties in the 
prison. So our Government has been in the process of investigating.
    And there are two--more than two investigations, multiple 
investigations going on, some of them related to any criminal charges 
that may be filed. And in our system of law, it's essential that those 
criminal charges go forward without prejudice. In other words, people 
need to be--are treated innocent until proven guilty. And facts are now 
being gathered.
    And secondly, there is investigations to determine how widespread 
abuse may be occurring, and we want to know the truth. I talked to the 
Secretary of Defense this morning, by the 
way. I said, ``Find the truth, and then tell the Iraqi people and the 
world the truth.'' We have nothing to hide. We believe in transparency, 
because we're a free society. That's what free societies do. They--if 
there's a problem, they address those problems in a forthright, upfront 
manner. And that's what's taking place.

Accountability

    Q. Mr. President, in a democracy and a free society, as you 
mentioned, people investigate, but at the same time, even those who are 
not directly responsible for these events take responsibility. With such 
a problem of this magnitude, do we expect anyone to step down? Do you 
still have confidence in the Secretary of Defense?

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    The President. Oh, of course I've got confidence in the Secretary of 
Defense, and I've got confidence in the 
commanders on the ground in Iraq, because they and our troops are doing 
great work on behalf of the Iraqi people. We're finding the few that 
wanted to try to stop progress toward freedom and democracy. We're 
helping the Iraqi people stand up a government. We stand side by side 
with the Iraqis that love freedom.
    And--but people will be held to account. That's what the process 
does. That's what we do in America. We fully investigate. We let 
everybody see the results of the investigation, and then people will be 
held to account.

Human Rights Abuses/International Red Cross

    Q. If your State Department issues a human rights report about 
practices around the world and abuses, and we call upon countries every 
once in a while to----
    The President. Right.
    Q. ----try to put pressure on them to allow International Red Cross 
to visit prisons and detention center, would you allow the International 
Red Cross and other human rights organization to visit prisons under the 
control of the U.S. military?
    The President. Of course we'll cooperate with the International Red 
Cross. They're a vital organization, and we work with the International 
Red Cross. And you're right, we do point out human rights abuses. We 
also say to those governments, ``Clean up your act,'' and that's 
precisely what America is doing.
    We've discovered these abuses. They're abhorrent abuses. They do not 
reflect--the actions of these few people do not reflect the hearts of 
the American people. The American people are just as appalled at what 
they have seen on TV as the Iraqi citizens have. The Iraqi citizens must 
understand that. And therefore, there will be a full investigation, and 
justice will be served. And we will do to ourselves what we expect of 
others.
    And when we say, ``You've got human rights abuses, take care of the 
problem,'' we will do the same thing. We're taking care of the problem. 
And it's--it is unpleasant for Americans to see that some citizens, some 
soldiers have acted this way, because it does--again, I keep repeating, 
but it's true--it doesn't reflect how we think. This is not America. 
America is a country of justice and law and freedom and treating people 
with respect.

Cooperation Within Iraq

    Q. Transferring control of Fallujah in Iraq to former army officers 
under Saddam Hussein led many people in Iraq and even in the Arab world 
to believe that the U.S. is lowering its expectation.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. How would you respond?
    The President. Quite the contrary. We're raising expectations. We 
believe the Iraqi people can self-govern, and we believe the Iraqi 
people have got the capacity to take care of people who are willing to 
terrorize innocent Iraqi citizens. And that's what you're seeing in 
Fallujah. As a matter of fact, the general in 
charge of the operation in Fallujah had been imprisoned by Saddam 
Hussein. So he felt the vindictiveness of the 
Hussein regime.
    And I've got confidence that Iraq will be a peaceful, self-governing 
nation. And I also have confidence that, with help, the Iraqi security 
forces will be strong against foreign terrorists and others who are 
willing to kill and criminals who are willing to try to wreak havoc in 
this society. Listen, there are thousands of Iraqi--innocent Iraqis who 
are dying at the hands of these killers. And we want to help decent, 
honorable Iraqi citizens bring peace and security to Iraq.
    Q. So there is no reversal in policy of de-Ba'athification?
    The President. Oh, no. There are citizens, for example, in the--
amongst the

[[Page 769]]

teacher ranks in Sunni--parts of Sunni Iraq that were denied the right 
to teach because they may have been affiliated with the Ba'athist Party 
in the past but who are very important to the future of Iraq because 
they're teachers. And of course, they are now being let back in the 
classroom, not to spread political propaganda but to teach, to teach 
children.
    And obviously, there is a process of balancing those who may have 
been affiliated with the Ba'ath Party and those who are terrorists and 
killers. And obviously, terrorists and killers and extremists will not 
be a part of the Government, but people who are by and large peaceful 
people, who care deeply about the future of Iraq, will be. And that's 
what you're seeing taking place now.

Progress in Iraq/Transfer of Sovereignty

    Q. It's been over a year since Saddam Hussein's regime has toppled 
down, and U.S. allies are in place right now in Iraq. What is your 
assessment, today, of U.S. allies and the Governing Council and the 
various factions of the Iraqi Government?
    The President. Yes, well, first, I think we've made a lot of 
progress in a year.
    Q. Do you still trust them? Do you still----
    The President. Well, I trust the Iraqi people, let me put it to you 
that way. I believe the Iraqi people want to be free. By far, the vast 
majority of Iraqi citizens want to have a life that is peaceful, so they 
can raise their children, see that their children are educated, have a 
chance for their children to succeed. The businesspeople of Iraq just 
want a stable environment for them to be able to run their businesses 
and make a living. People want jobs. I mean, there are normal 
aspirations in Iraq that give me great confidence in the future of Iraq. 
People aspire for the same thing in Iraq as we do in America, a chance 
to succeed.
    I also have confidence that the process we're under will work, which 
is to transfer sovereignty on June 30th. The people of Iraq must 
understand, sovereignty will be transferred on June 30th. And there's a 
process now in place to make sure that there's an entity to which we 
transfer sovereignty. And then there will be elections. And I think the 
timetable we're on is a realistic timetable. It's one that will be met, 
and I believe that the elections will help the Iraqi citizens realize 
that freedom is coming.

Israeli Disengagement Plan

    Q. If I may ask you my final question on the issue of the peace 
efforts that you are conducting, you supported Prime Minister Sharon's 
plan to withdraw from Gaza, and you sent senior officials to Israel, and 
Israeli officials came to Washington and negotiated that plan. Do you 
think it was a mistake to support a plan before the Prime Minister 
secured the support of his own party?
    The President. I think when you see a step toward peace, it's 
important for a peaceful nation like America to embrace it. And I felt 
that a withdrawal from the Gaza by the Israeli Prime Minister as well as the withdrawal from four settlements from 
the West Bank by the Israeli Prime Minister was a step toward peace. And 
at the time he did so, I called for the United States and others to 
seize this moment--the Quartet and the European Union and Russia and the 
United Nations and, hopefully, the World Bank, to seize this moment and 
to help the development of a Palestinian state that will be at peace 
with its neighbors, a Palestinian state that will provide hope for long-
suffering Palestinian people.
    I think this is an historic moment for the world. I think this is a 
good opportunity to step forth. I am confident that a peaceful 
Palestinian state can emerge. I'm the first President ever to call for 
the establishment of a Palestinian state. I still feel strongly that 
there should be one. I also recognize that we have got a duty, all of 
us, to fight

[[Page 770]]

off the terrorists who are trying to stop the spread of a peaceful 
Palestinian state or the creation of a Palestinian state.
    And now is the time to make progress, and I believe we can. There 
was a good statement yesterday out of the Quartet that confirmed our 
desire for a Palestinian state to emerge. And it's--what the Prime 
Minister of Israel did was--took a political 
risk; obviously he did. I mean, his own party condemned the statement--
condemned the policy. However, I still believe it was the right thing 
for him to do, and we support peace in the Middle East. And we support 
the vision of two states living side by side in peace.
    Q. Thank you very much, Mr. President.
    The President. Good job.

Note: The interview was taped at 10:18 a.m. in the Map Room at the White 
House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to 
former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Brig. Gen. Mark T. Kimmitt, 
USA, deputy director of operations, Coalition Joint Task Force Seven; 
Iraqi General Mohammed Latif; and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel.