    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book I)]
    [June 1, 2004]
    [Pages 971-974]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With RAI Television of Italy
    June 1, 2004

    Europe-U.S. Relations

        Q. Mr. President, it will be in a few days the anniversary of the D-
    day. Italy and Europe are grateful to the United States for the
    liberation from fascism and the nazism. But today, Europe and America
    are still divided about Iraq. When you go in Europe, there will
    certainly be some demonstration against you. What is the responsibility
    of this situation?
        The President. Yes, look, first of all, we share the same values--we
    being America and Europe. And one of the values we share is the freedom
    for people to express themselves. So I have no problem with people
    saying, ``I disagree.'' Matter of fact, I think it's a healthy sign, and
    I think it's positive.
        Secondly, there are--there is common agreement that Iraq must be
    free and peaceful. We had disagreements about the decision to enforce
    the U.N. Security Council resolution, but there's common agreement in
    Europe with America that it's in the world's interest that Iraq be free
    and peaceful. Today I just talked to the new Prime Minister and had a very good conversation with him. And he said,
    ``Thank you for giving us a chance, and thank you for standing with
    us.'' And when he said

    [[Page 972]]

    thank you, he wasn't talking just to me. He was talking to the Italian
    people and the American people and the Brits and all the people in our
    coalition that are now helping in Iraq.
        So I'm very upbeat and very--as I head over to honor what happened
    60 years ago, I think we're now seeing unity to work toward common good
    today. And I'm looking forward to it.

    Proposed U.N. Security Council Resolution/Situation in Iraq

        Q. Yes, but some Europeans blame you for having kept them out of the
    decision to go to the war in Iraq.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. Do you think this is the real reason for present difficulties?
        The President. Well, first of all, I don't see many difficulties.
    You mean in Iraq?
        Q. In Iraq.
        The President. Oh, in Iraq.
        Q. And at the U.N. as well.
        The President. Well, I think you'll see----
        Q. The ground and the----
        The President. Yes. No, I think you'll see in the U.N. there's going
    to be common agreement. I think we'll get a new Security Council
    resolution. Remember, 1441--at the Security Council, we voted
    unanimously to say to Saddam Hussein,
    ``Disarm, or face serious consequences.'' Then it became clear he didn't
    disarm and didn't disclose, and so we had a debate about the definition
    of serious consequences.
        My attitude is, when you say something, you better do it. In other
    words, the world said, ``Serious consequences, Mr. Hussein.'' And had there not been serious consequences, I think
    he would have been extremely dangerous, and the United Nations would
    have been viewed as very weak.
        And so, the United States, along with a lot of other nations, agreed
    that we must enforce serious consequences. But everybody had a chance to
    participate. Everybody had a chance, particularly on the Security
    Council, to say yes or no. But that is now behind us, and that's what is
    important for the people of your great country to understand. There is a
    better day ahead.
        Now, in terms of Iraq, it's tough. And the reason it's tough is
    because there are killers in that country who want to stop the march to
    freedom. The worst thing they fear is free elections, but they're not
    going to stop us. That's what you've got to understand. We are not going
    to be intimidated by killers in Iraq or anywhere else, for that matter.
        Q. Some have said that you never admit to any shortcomings, much
    less failures. Looking back at the past year, do you have anything to
    reproach yourself regarding what has gone wrong? Did you make any
    mistakes?
        The President. Listen, any time you go to war, circumstances change.
    And the fundamental question is, were we flexible enough to change with
    the circumstances? And we have been. Could we--this is all hypothetical,
    when you think about it. We are changing a country from tyranny to
    freedom, a country where people were brutalized, tortured, raped,
    killed, maimed, to a country which is going to govern itself. And it has
    been hard work.
        A lot of things didn't happen that we thought might happen, the oil
    production, for example. We thought that would be blown up, and it would
    cost the Iraqi citizens a lot of money. It wasn't. We thought that
    people would go hungry or there would be mass refugees, neither of which
    happened.
        What did happen is, is that we moved too quickly. Our troops stormed
    through to Baghdad, and then it caused--it enabled some of the
    Saddam loyalists, some of them, to disperse.
    In other words, they didn't stay and fight. They ran off. They regrouped
    and came back to fight. And I--and our troops were given the flexibility
    on the ground to deal with that. Now, I wish the Iraqi people had
    overwhelmingly said, ``Thank you for coming.'' I think they

    [[Page 973]]

    will. But some didn't. Some said, ``Let's fight them.''

    Iraqi Interim Government

        Q. But don't you think that now this new government could been seen
    as a puppet government because there are a lot of elements close to
    America--America gives them money?
        The President. Well, we--look, you're talking about the current
    Prime Minister.
        Q. Yes.
        The President. And you bet we supported a group that he headed. We
    didn't support him. We supported his group. You know why? Because he
    wanted to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and the
    reason why he did is not because of America. He wanted to get rid of
    Saddam Hussein because Saddam Hussein killed and tortured his fellow
    citizens. You remember what Saddam Hussein is like. He was a tyrant. He
    was brutal. He had torture rooms. There was mass graves we discovered. I
    had the other day in the Oval Office seven men whose hands had been cut
    off by Saddam Hussein.
        Q. We have shown this picture.
        The President. Have you? Good.
        Q. Yes, we have.
        The President. A very touching moment.
        Q. Are you happy with this new government in Iraq?
        The President. I am happy that Mr. Brahimi did what he said he would do. The government was
    picked by the United Nations. Mr. Brahimi went under very difficult
    circumstances and consulted with a lot of people and came up with what
    appears to be a very diverse government.
        Now, I have just spoken to the Prime Minister and the new President. And I told them two things: One, thank you for taking on a
    very difficult assignment, thank you for leading; and two, America and
    our coalition will help you succeed, but it's up to you to succeed.
    You're in charge, and we will work with you to succeed.

    Prisoner Abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison/U.S. Credibility

        Q. How much has the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib damaged the
    American moral authority and credibility?
        The President. Yes. Well, that's a very good question. Obviously, it
    was a shameful moment when we saw on our TV screens that soldiers took
    it upon themselves to humiliate Iraqi prisoners, because it doesn't
    reflect the nature of the American people or the nature of the men and
    women in our uniform. And what the world will see is that we will handle
    this matter in a very transparent way, that there will be rule of law,
    which is an important part of any democracy. And there will be
    transparency, which is a second important part of a democracy, and
    people who have done wrong will be held to account for the world to see.
        That will stand--this process will stand in stark contrast to what
    would happen under a tyrant. You would never know about the abuses in
    the first place. And if you did know about the abuses, you certainly
    wouldn't see any process to correct them.

    President's Upcoming Visit With Pope John Paul II

        Q. You will visit the Pope as well on June 4th.
        The President. Yes, sir.
        Q. The Vatican opposed the war and now recommends, look forward and
    pay more attention to the religious and moral sensitivity of the Iraqi
    people. What's your opinion about this recommendation?
        The President. Well, I can understand. Look, a lot of people didn't
    like the war. I understand that completely, and I don't like war. But
    I'm the guy who has to decide, for our case, whether or not a Saddam
    Hussein would be a threat to peace, and made
    a very difficult decision. After having tried all diplomacy, war was the
    last option.
        Secondly, I will tell the--His Holy Father I appreciate his positions--he is a

    [[Page 974]]

    great man--and that I look forward to working with the Iraqis to put in
    place the conditions so that human rights prevail, something that didn't
    happen under Saddam Hussein, looking forward
    to the development of a society in which boys and girls can go to
    schools and not be filled with hateful propaganda but with knowledge. I
    look forward to working with the health care workers in Iraq so that
    people can get decent health care. I will assure His Holy Father that we
    will do everything we can to elevate the human condition so that people
    can live in peace and freedom and remind him that a free Iraq in the
    midst of the Middle East will serve as a great moment of change, will
    serve as an example for others to follow. You see, when the people in
    the Middle East see that a free society can exist in the Muslim world,
    they'll demand the same thing. And free societies are peaceful
    societies. Free societies are hopeful societies. And in the long run,
    the best way to defeat terror is to promote freedom, and that's what
    we're going to do.
        Q. Last question.
        The President. Sure.

    Proposed U.N. Security Council Resolution/Future of Iraq

        Q. If you cannot succeed with the United Nations, do you have a plan
    B as an exit strategy in Iraq?
        The President. We will succeed--we will succeed with the United
    Nations.
        Q. It's sure?
        The President. I'm confident. I'm an optimist. I've talked to most
    of the leaders on the Security Council. I've talked to the Russians, the
    Chinese, the Germans, the French, of course the Brits, and I know there
    is a consensus that we must work together for the good of the Iraqi
    people. This isn't about America. This is about Iraq and the citizens of
    Iraq who suffered under tyranny for so long. And now we have a chance to
    work together to promote a free society in a part of the world, by the
    way, that is desperate for free societies. And I know we'll succeed.
    I've got great faith in the future. And having talked to the new
    leadership--some of the new leadership in Iraq--I can tell you they
    share that same sense of destiny, the same great hope for their people.
        Q. Thank you, Mr. President.
        The President. Good to see you, sir.

    Note: The interview was taped at 2:55 p.m. in the Library at the White
    House for later broadcast. The transcript was released by the Office of
    the Press Secretary on June 2. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and President Ghazi al-Ujayl al-Yawr of the
    Iraqi interim government; former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; and
    Lakhdar Brahimi, Special Adviser to the U.N. Secretary-General. A tape
    was not available for verification of the content of this interview.