    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2004, Book I)]
    [June 24, 2004]
    [Pages 1129-1133]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Radio and Television Ireland
    June 24, 2004

    Irish Public Opinion

        Q. Mr. President, you're going to arrive in Ireland in about 24
    hours' time, and no doubt you will be welcomed by our political leaders.
    Unfortunately, the majority of our public do not welcome your visit
    because they're angry over Iraq; they're angry over Abu Ghraib. Are you
    bothered by what Irish people think?

        The President. Listen, I hope the Irish people understand the great
    values of our country. And if they think that a few soldiers represents
    the entirety of America, they don't really understand America then.

        There have been great ties between Ireland and America, and we've
    got a lot of Irish Americans here that are very proud of their heritage
    and their country. But you know, they must not understand if they're
    angry over Abu Ghraib--if they say, ``This is what America represents,''
    they don't understand our country, because we don't represent that. We
    are a compassionate country. We're a strong country, and we'll defend
    ourselves, but we help people. And we've helped the Irish, and we'll
    continue to do so. We've got a good relationship with Ireland.

    Iraq/Terrorism

        Q. And they're angry over Iraq as well and particularly the
    continuing death toll there.
        The President. Well, I can understand that. People don't like war.
    But what they should be angry about is the fact that there was a brutal
    dictator there that had destroyed lives and put them in mass graves and
    had torture rooms. Listen, I wish they could have seen the seven men
    that came to see me in the Oval Office. They had their right hands cut
    off by Saddam Hussein because the currency
    had devalued when he was the leader. And guess what happened? An
    American saw the fact that they had had their
    hands cut off and crosses or Xs carved in their forehead, and he flew
    them to America. And they came to my office with a new hand, grateful
    for the generosity of America and with Saddam Hussein's brutality in
    their mind.
        Look, Saddam Hussein had used weapons of
    mass destruction against his own people, against the neighborhood. He
    was a brutal dictator who posed a threat--such a threat that the United
    Nations voted unanimously to say, ``Mr. Saddam Hussein''----

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        Q. Indeed, Mr. President, but you didn't find the weapons of mass
    destruction.
        The President. Let me finish. Let me finish. May I finish?
        He said--the United Nations said, ``Disarm, or face serious
    consequences.'' That's what the United Nations said. And guess what?
    He didn't disarm. He didn't disclose his
    arms. And therefore, he faced serious consequences. But we have found a
    capacity for him to make a weapon. See, he had the capacity to make
    weapons. He was dangerous, and no one can argue that the world is better
    off with Saddam--if Saddam Hussein were in power.
        Q. But Mr. President, the world is a more dangerous place today. I
    don't know whether you can see that or not.
        The President. Why do you say that?
        Q. There are terrorist bombings every single day. It's now a daily
    event. It wasn't like that 2 years ago.
        The President. What was it like September the 11th, 2001? It was a--
    there was a relative calm, we----
        Q. But it's your response to Iraq that's considered----
        The President. Let me finish. Let me finish, please. Please. You ask
    the questions, and I'll answer them, if you don't mind.
        On September the 11th, 2001, we were attacked in an unprovoked
    fashion. Everybody thought the world was calm, and then there have been
    bombings since then--not because of my response to Iraq. There were
    bombings in Madrid. There were bombings in Istanbul. There were bombings
    in Bali. There were killings in Pakistan.
        Q. Indeed, Mr. President, and I think Irish people understand that.
    But I think there is a feeling that the world has become a more
    dangerous place because you have taken the focus off Al Qaida and
    diverted into Iraq. Do you not see that the world is a more dangerous
    place? I saw four of your soldiers lying dead on the television the
    other day, a picture of four soldiers just lying there without their
    flight jackets.
        The President. Listen, nobody cares more about the death than I do--
    --
        Q. Is there a point or place----
        The President. Let me finish, please. Please. Let me finish, and
    then you can follow up, if you don't mind.
        Nobody cares more about the deaths than I do. I care about it a lot.
    But I do believe the world is a safer place and becoming a safer place.
    I know that a free Iraq is going to be a necessary part of changing the
    world. Listen, people join terrorist organizations because there's no
    hope and there's no chance to raise their families in a peaceful world,
    where there is not freedom. And so the idea is to promote freedom and at
    the same time protect our security. And I do believe the world is
    becoming a better place, absolutely.

    President's Faith

        Q. Mr. President, you are a man who has a great faith in God. I've
    heard you say many times that you strive to serve somebody greater than
    yourself.
        The President. Right.
        Q. Do you believe that the hand of God is guiding you in this war on
    terror?
        The President. Listen, I think that God--that my relationship with
    God is a very personal relationship. And I turn to the Good Lord for
    strength. And I turn to the Good Lord for guidance. I turn to the Good
    Lord for forgiveness. But the God I know is not one that--the God I know
    is one that promotes peace and freedom. But I get great sustenance from
    my personal relationship. That doesn't make me think I'm a better person
    than you are, by the way, because one of the great admonitions in the
    Good Book is, don't try to take a speck out of your eye if I've got a
    log in my own.

    President's Upcoming Meeting With Prime Minister Ahern of Ireland

        Q. You're going to meet Bertie Ahern when you arrive in Shannon
    Airport tomorrow. I guess he went out on a limb for

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    you, presumably because of the great friendship between our two
    countries. Can you look him in the eye when you get there and say it
    will be worth it--it will work out?
        The President. Absolutely. I wouldn't be doing this, I wouldn't have
    made the decisions I did if I didn't think the world would be better. Of
    course. I'm not going to put people in harm's way, our young, if I
    didn't think the world would be better. And----
        Q. Why is it that others----
        The President. Let me finish.
        And so, yes, I can turn to my friend Bertie Ahern and say, ``Thank
    you. Thanks for helping, and I appreciate it very much.'' And there will
    be other challenges, by the way.

    Public Opinion/U.S. Compassion

        Q. Why is it that others don't understand what you're about?
        The President. I don't know. History will judge what I'm about. But
    I'm the kind of person, I don't really try to chase popular polls or
    popularity polls. My job is to do my job and make the decisions that I
    think are important for our country and for the world. And I argue
    strongly that the world is better off because of the decisions I have
    made, along with others. America is not in this alone. One of our
    greatest allies of--in the world is your neighbor Great Britain. Tony
    Blair has been a strong advocate for not only
    battling terrorists but promoting freedom, for which I am grateful.
        Let me say one other thing about America that your viewers must
    know--is that not only are we working hard to promote security and
    peace, we're also working to eradicate famine and disease. There is no
    more generous country on the face of the Earth than the United States of
    America when it comes to fighting HIV/AIDS. As a matter of fact, it was
    my initiative----
        Q. Indeed, that's understood----
        The President. ----my initiative that asked Congress to spend $15
    billion over 5 years to battle this pandemic. And we're following
    through on it. And no other country in the world feeds more of the
    hungry than the United States. We're a compassionate nation.

    France and Iraq

        Q. Mr. President, I know your time is tight. Can I move you on to
    Europe? Are you satisfied that you are getting enough help in Iraq from
    European countries? You have come together. You are more friendly now--
    but they're not really stepping up to the plate with help, are they?
        The President. Well, I think, first of all, most of Europe supported
    the decision in Iraq. And really, what you're talking about is France,
    isn't it? And they didn't agree with my decision. They did vote for the
    U.N. Security Council resolution that said, ``Disclose; disarm; or face
    serious consequences.'' We just had a difference of opinion about when
    you say something, do you mean it.
        But nevertheless, there's no doubt in my mind President
    Chirac would like to see a free and
    democratic and whole Iraq emerge--and same in Afghanistan. They've been
    very helpful in Afghanistan. They're willing to forgive debt in Iraq,
    but most European countries are very supportive and are participating in
    the reconstruction of Iraq.

    Transfer of Sovereignty in Iraq

        Q. And how do you see the handover going? The next few weeks are
    going to be crucial. Can democracy really flourish with the violence
    that's going on? A hundred Iraqis dead today, Mr. President.
        The President. I don't like death either. I mean, you keep
    emphasizing the death, and I don't blame you. But all that goes to show
    is the nature of the enemy. These people are willing to kill innocent
    people. They're willing to slaughter innocent people to stop the advance
    of freedom. And so the free world has to make a choice: Do

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    we cower in the face of terror, or do we lead in the face of terror?
        And I'm going to lead in the face of terror. We will not let these
    terrorists dash the hopes and ambitions of the people of Iraq. There's
    some kind of attitude that says, ``Oh, gosh, the terrorists attacked.
    Let's let the Iraqis suffer more.'' We're not going to let them suffer
    more. We're going to work with them, and I'm most proud of this fellow,
    Prime Minister Allawi. He's strong, and he's
    tough. He says to me, ``Mr. President, don't leave our country. Help us
    secure our country so we can be free.''

    Situation in the Middle East

        Q. Indeed, Mr. President, just to get back to that. Can I just turn
    to the Middle East----
        The President. Sure.
        Q. ----and you will be discussing at the EU summit and the idea of
    bringing democracy to the broader Middle East.
        The President. Right.
        Q. Is that something that really should start, though, with the
    solving of the Israeli-Palestinian crisis?
        The President. Well, I think, first of all, you've got a democracy
    in Turkey. And you've got a democracy emerging in Afghanistan. You've
    got a democracy in Pakistan. In other words----
        Q. But shouldn't that be on the top of the list----
        The President. Please. Please. Please, for a minute, okay. It'll be
    better if you let me finish my answers, and then you can follow up, if
    you don't mind.
        What I'm telling you is democracy can emerge at the same time that a
    democracy can emerge in the Palestinian state. I'm the first American
    President to have called for the establishment of a Palestinian state,
    the first one to do so, because I believe it is in the Palestinian
    people's interest; I believe it's in Israel's interest. And yes, we're
    working. But we can do more than, you know, one thing at a time. And we
    are working on the roadmap with the Quartet to advance the process down
    the road. Like Iraq, the Palestinian and the Israeli issue is going to
    require good security measures. And----
        Q. And a bit more evenhandedness from America?
        The President. ----and we're working on security measures. And
    America--I'm the first President to ever have called for a Palestinian
    state. That's, to me, sounds like a reasonable, balanced approach. But I
    will not allow terrorists to determine the fate--as best I can--
    determine the fate of people who want to be free.
        Q. Mr. President, thank you very much for talking to us.
        The President. You're welcome.

    Note: The interview was taped at 4:08 p.m. in the Library at the White
    House for later broadcast, and the transcript was released by the Office
    of the Press Secretary on June 25. In his remarks, the President
    referred to former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Marvin Zindler,
    member, board of directors, Agris-Zindler Children's Fund; Prime
    Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom; President Jacques Chirac of
    France; and Prime Minister Ayad Allawi of the Iraqi interim government.
    A tape was not available for verification of the content of this
    interview.

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