[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
[July 3, 2003]
[Pages 826-828]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With the South African Broadcasting Corporation
July 3, 2003

Liberia

    Simon Marks. Mr. President, thank you very much indeed for talking 
to us here today. Let me start by seeing if we can perhaps make a little 
bit of news.
    Liberia: Many West African leaders have asked you to send U.S. 
peacekeeping troops to join a multinational stabilization force in 
Liberia. Are you going to? If so, how many and for how long?
    The President. We're in the process of determining the course of 
action necessary to see that peace and stability reign in Liberia. And 
some of our military people are

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meeting with ECOWAS leaders today. And I haven't made a decision yet.
    Mr. Marks. Are you closing in on a decision?
    The President. Yes. Every day that goes by is closer to a decision. 
But I need--before I make decisions, I like to have facts, and I'm 
gathering the facts necessary to determine what is necessary, who's 
willing to participate.
    The one thing that must happen is, Charles Taylor has got to leave. A condition for any kind of 
operation that stabilizes the country is for Mr. Taylor to leave the 
country, and hopefully, we can achieve that objective diplomatically. 
Colin Powell is working closely with Kofi 
Annan and others at the United Nations to prepare 
the groundwork, if possible, for Mr. Taylor's departure.

Zimbabwe

    Mr. Marks. Let me switch countries, if I may, and ask you about 
Zimbabwe. A short while ago your Secretary of State, Colin Powell, wrote 
in the New York Times that ``South Africa can and should play a stronger 
and more sustained role in resolving matters in Zimbabwe.'' 
Specifically, what would you like to see President Thabo Mbeki do in 
Zimbabwe that he's not already doing?
    The President. Insist that there be elections. Insist that democracy 
rule. Insist that the conditions necessary for that country to become 
prosperous again are in place.
    I agree with the Secretary of State. I 
certainly don't want to put any pressure on my friend, but Zimbabwe has not been a good case study for 
democracy in a very important part of the world. And we hope that not 
only Mr. Mbeki but other leaders convince the current leadership to 
promote democracy.
    Mr. Marks. Do you think quiet diplomacy can work?
    The President. I hope any kind of diplomacy can work. So far, 
diplomacy hasn't worked. That's part of the problem. You know, it's an 
interesting question. I guess writing an article may not be viewed as 
quiet diplomacy, since it was quite public. But I also have spoken out 
on Zimbabwe. It's a bad example.
    Let me give you one reason why. There's a lot of starving people in 
sub-Sahara Africa; yet, Zimbabwe used to be able to grow more than it 
needed, to help deal with the starvation. We're a nation that is 
interested in helping people that are starving. We're going to spend a 
billion dollars this year on programs to help the hungry. It would be 
really helpful if Zimbabwe's economy was such that they would become a 
breadbasket again, a capacity to grow more food that's needed so that we 
could help--they could help deal with the hunger. And yet, the country 
is in such that, you know, in such a condition that the agricultural 
sector of its economy is in shambles right now.

HIV/AIDS Initiative/Debt Relief

    Mr. Marks. On HIV, you surprised many in Washington by the vigor 
with which you've embraced the battle to combat HIV/AIDS. Some say you 
could do even more by more enthusiastically embracing debt relief for 
Africa. You favor it enthusiastically for Iraq; why not more 
enthusiastically for Africa?
    The President. Well, let me start with the HIV program. I mean, 
enthusiasm is to the tune of $15 billion--that's pretty darn 
enthusiastic--to deal with the pandemic. And I also have agreed to 
increase the direct developmental aid grants from the United States by 
50 percent. However, we expect countries, whether they be in Africa or 
anywhere else, that are applying for this money to embrace the habits of 
a free country, like transparency, anticorruption, making sure the 
people are educated and receive health care. So we're doing a lot in 
America.
    There is a program in place for debt relief. And I would like to see 
that program implemented in full. I also called for the

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World Bank to give more grants rather than loans. And so our program 
across the board is compassionate, in my judgment, because we care about 
Africa and we care about the people of Africa.

Nelson Mandela

    Mr. Marks. And as you head to Africa, you are obviously aware that 
there are a large number of people on the continent who disagree with 
many of your policies, particularly your decision to move into Iraq, 
some of them very prominent personalities. When a statesman like former 
South African President Nelson Mandela says the very personal things 
about you that he has said in the past and continues to say even this 
week, that's got to hurt.
    The President. No. I did the right thing. My job is to make sure 
America is secure. And if some don't like the tactics, that's the nature 
of a free world, where people can express their opinion.
    I admire Nelson Mandela. As a matter of 
fact, my administration was the one that gave him the Medal of Freedom 
because of his courage and bravery. I just happen to disagree with him 
on his view of how best to secure America.
    But you can be rest assured that if I think America is threatened, I 
will act. And you know, I understand criticism. I mean, look, but I'm 
not the kind of person that runs around trying to take a poll to 
determine what to do. If I believe it's necessary for my country, I will 
act.
    I also believe it's necessary, when we see people enslaved, to work 
on behalf of their freedom, because this country believes that freedom 
is the desire of every human heart. And one of the great benefits of our 
action in Iraq is not only going to make America more secure, but it's 
going to make the Iraqi people more free. And you know, these mass 
graves we're finding is just the tip of the iceberg about what these 
poor people had to suffer at the hands of Saddam Hussein. And it's that kind of suffering that troubles me. And 
I believe the use of--proper use of power by America will make the world 
more peaceful, America more secure, and as importantly, people more 
free.
    Mr. Marks. Mr. President, bon voyage.
    The President. Thank you, sir.

Note: The interview was taped at 1:17 p.m. in the Map Room at the White 
House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to 
President Charles Taylor of Liberia; Secretary-General Kofi Annan of the 
United Nations; President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa; and former 
President Saddam Hussein of Iraq. A tape was not available for 
verification of the content of this interview.