[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
[October 22, 2003]
[Pages 1372-1380]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
Interview With Members of the White House Press Pool
October 22, 2003
The President. What I thought I would do is just----
Q. On the record?
The President. Yes, on the record. I thought I would just give you
some observations of this trip and then answer some questions. Just
first observation is that we have worked hard to build up good bilateral
relations in the Far East. And the--part of the purpose of the trip is
to continue to foster those relations.
It struck me as interesting that the United States now has got good
enough relations with both--with countries like Japan and South Korea
and China to effect policy which helps our mutual security and our
economy--and economy. I think that's a very positive development.
The most notable example of where that is taking--where it is
helping is in North Korea. When I visited with Hu Jintao, I spent a lot of time talking about North Korea, our
mutual desire to effect change with Kim Chong-il. And it was a very positive discussion. But I also had the
very same discussion with Koizumi and
President Roh. I mentioned it to
Vladimir. I didn't have a bilateral with
Vladimir Putin, but I did talk to him about it in passing.
My point is, is that by working hard to establish good relations on
a lot of fronts, when a common problem arises, we can effect the
solution in a positive way. I know you asked me, Steve [Steve Holland,
Reuters], about the North Korean reaction. I didn't exactly see what
official said it. But I--what I hope my answer conveyed to you in public
there was that this requires a degree of patience, because Kim Chong-
il is used to being able to deal bilaterally
with the United States. But the change of policy now is, is that he must
deal with other nations, most notably China. And I was pleased with my
discussions with Hu Jintao, about his--reaffirming
his mutual desire--or his desire, which is our mutual goal, that Kim
Chong-il disarm. He realizes that it's a problem.
We discussed the security guarantees, what form they may come in. I
made it very clear, obviously--I said this during the pool spray there--
that a treaty is not going
[[Page 1373]]
to happen, but there are other ways to effect on paper what I have said
publicly--we have no intention of invading. Obviously, any guarantee
would be conditional on Kim Chong-il doing what
he hopefully will say he'll do, which is to get rid of his nuclear
weapons programs.
The APEC summit was positive. I mean, one of the things that's very
important--the two things that came out of that, although evidently
didn't get equal emphasis, but they were equally emphasized by all
parties, was, one, the need to get the Doha Round of trade going again.
This was really one of the first official meetings of a group of
countries after the Cancun talks broke down. And there was a positive
statement coming out of the meeting, kind of universal agreement that
Cancun was a missed opportunity. Hopefully the missed opportunity will
be--will serve as a catalyst. I think people now have taken a step back
and said, ``Well, we did miss an opportunity,'' and hopefully this will
enable the talks--kind of not start at ground zero but have a running
start as a result of the missed opportunity.
And it's interesting, in the room there is something like 60 percent
of all the world trade--was affected--was countries in that room, and
therefore it was a, I think, a very positive and strong statement.
The other thing was the clear understanding of the countries of the
need to fight terror. That's important for the United States, that
people continue to recognize that the war on terror goes on. I've always
felt that there's a tendency for people to kind of seek a comfort zone
and hope that the war on terror is over. And I view it as a
responsibility of the United States to remind people of our mutual
obligations to deal with the terrorists.
That notion of responsible behavior by countries was finally
accepted. This was not a--didn't require a lot of push. People
understood. President Megawati
understands that when terrorists bomb Bali, it affects economies. It not
only--there's a serious economic consequence, same thing we felt on
September the 11th, to our economy.
That was a very positive development. Bilateral discussion with all
the leaders--in those bilateral discussions, we talked about this war on
terror. Gloria Arroyo, with Abu
Sayyaf, President Megawati just hours
ago, we talked about the continued need for us to work together.
I think the other notable--when you step back and take a look at
what our work with these Asian countries has been, they understand the
Iraq issue well. South Korea was very forthcoming. Japan is forthcoming.
Hu Jintao made it clear that he--that a peaceful Iraq was in the world
interest. Those are all positive developments in kind of the aftermath
of the military operation. And I think it speaks to our--the nature of
our relationship with these countries right now.
Obviously we haven't been to Australia, but Australia is a key
component in a peaceful Asia-Pacific region and a key partner in the war
on terror. So I'm looking forward to seeing John Howard. He and I have got a great relationship. He is a--as I
said in Crawford, he's a man of steel. He's a standup guy.
Q. A sheriff?
The President. He's a sheriff. See, that's a good lesson. You should
never answer the question you're asked. [Laughter] Actually, I answered
it for a reason. Of all the people in the world who understand Texas,
it's probably Australians.
Q. Patsy [Patricia Wilson, Reuters].
The President. Yes, Patsy. Anyway, it's going to be a good visit
down there. We had some good discussions there at APEC, but this will be
a chance to further our discussions and assure the Australian people
that the American people are really grateful for the support and mutual
efforts to make the world secure.
I had a good visit with the religious leaders today. It was an
important visit. There were three Muslims, a Christian, and a Hindu. A
couple of observations from the
[[Page 1374]]
meeting: One, there was kind of a sense that Americans believe that
Muslims are terrorists. And one of the reasons I wanted to have this
meeting was because I wanted to make it very clear that I didn't feel
that way and Americans don't feel that way. And I made it--assured them
that Americans know that these terrorists are hiding behind Islam in
order to create fear and chaos and death.
Secondly, there was a--they did bring up the Middle East. I
explained to them what our policy was, that in order for there to be a
Palestinian state--and I reminded them I was the first President to have
articulated that--that there needs to be a concerted effort to fight off
the terrorists who are trying to prevent the establishment of a state. I
didn't really have time to go in further than that, about the whole
Aqaba accords and the progress we were making, until the Prime
Minister, who had avowed--who
vowed to fight terror with us, was eased out.
Let's see, what else did they discuss? Iraq, of course. I assured
them that we would do our job, and then the Iraqis will run themselves,
and that our job means to provide enough security so that the Iraqi
citizens are able to write a constitution and hold elections, at which
point the United States and the coalition forces will move on. And I
think they were pleased to hear it. I don't want to put words in their
mouth, but I think that relieved them to know that we have confidence in
the Iraqi people's abilities to be a peaceful, free society.
National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. You listened.
The President. Well, they did a lot of talking.
National Security Adviser Rice. They had a lot to say.
The President. They had some prepared texts. There was a good
exchange. I'm glad I did it. They were, I think, appreciative of the
fact I took time to listen to them and dispel some notions and to--my
own personal views about religion and the views of our country. I
reminded them, we've got a lot of Muslims living in the United States,
and they make an important contribution to our country, and they're
welcome in the United States. And we're a pluralistic, free society;
people can worship the way they want to worship. And it works well in
America.
All in all, it's been a very positive experience.
Indonesia Meeting With Religious Leaders
Q. Was it confrontational at all?
The President. Not at all, polite.
Q. You said that there were some texts. Did they come out with the
line about--what did they tell you? How direct were they? They said some
things going into the meeting that the United States policy is tilted
against Muslims. What did they----
The President. They said the United States policy is tilted toward
Israel, and I said our policy is tilted toward peace and that--and then
I went through the notion of a Palestinian state and the need for us to
fight off terror in order for a state to develop.
There wasn't a lot of debate. There were five people there that
felt--that all needed to say something. So I gave them all a time to
speak, and I listened and would occasionally interject some thoughts
about what they had said. But they were direct. One fellow felt that the
war on Iraq was--I guess the best way to put it was maybe just--I can't
remember his exact words, but it was like we just decided to act. And I
reminded him that the world had spoken before, that there was a--the
United States had passed--I didn't get into all the resolutions, but I
made it clear that a process had gone on way before I made the decision
to use military force, that the world had spoken before about Saddam
Hussein.
I also made the point very clearly that there was a lot of human
suffering; a lot of Muslims suffered in Iraq. And I did bring up the
mass graves and the torture
[[Page 1375]]
rooms and the rape rooms and the death at the hands of Saddam Hussein.
My point to them was, was that we ended a lot of suffering, prevented a
lot of suffering.
Lieutenant General Boykin
Q. Is your job made tougher in convincing them that Americans don't
have a war on--don't dislike Islam when you have General Boykin saying
that Muslims all----
The President. Yes, that came up. Boykin came up. I said he didn't
reflect my opinion. Look, it just doesn't reflect what the Government
thinks. And I think they were pleased to hear that.
Indonesia Meeting With Religious Leaders
Q. Something in your answer to your Terry's [Terence Hunt,
Associated Press] question was interesting. You articulated the fact
that you're the President--first President to advocate a Palestinian
state. And obviously in trying to reassure Muslims----
The President. Not that good a question. Go ahead.
Q. ----not only in America but around the world, potential terrorist
hotbeds--to reassure people who are interested in this subject of that
point. It's not something we have heard you saying a lot lately. Is
there a reason----
The President. About a Palestinian state?
Q. Right, that you were the first President to advocate it.
The President. I say it quite a bit. I mean, I really do. First of
all, in America, most people know that. In Indonesia, maybe they didn't
pay attention to it. But anyway, I explained it. It was not a--I don't
view that as--I wouldn't read anything into that, I had to say that in
Indonesia, but not saying it in every press conference I give.
Q. Can I ask you about some of the leaders you've met with here?
The President. Well, anyway----
Q. I guess what I'm getting at is, it's a good thing to have out
there, I guess. We don't hear it a lot.
The President. Yes, I don't know. There's a lot of things that
there's misconceptions. Evidently it's a misconceptions that Americans
believe that Muslims are terrorists. And there was a--that's probably
one of the best things that came out of the meeting, for me, was to have
heard that concern, and for me being able to assure people and remind
them about the nature of our society, that--and that Islam's a peaceful
religion. The basic tenets of Islam is peace and respect and tolerance.
And that's what they wanted to make the point to me, that we are--that's
the way we are.
Interesting, their elections came up. This is the first direct
Presidential election. It's going to be interesting--an interesting
exercise in democracy. And they wanted to talk about that. And as you
know--maybe you don't know--our USAID money is helping with the
elections. They were appreciative of that. The education money came up.
They wanted to make sure that this wasn't America's education system. I
said, ``It's not. It's money available for the Indonesian Government to
help basic education develop.'' So those were a couple of misconceptions
that it was important for me to help alter.
Democratic Candidates and Foreign Policy
Q. Can I ask a question--I know that you say campaigning--there will
be time enough for campaigning. In just months, Democrats, at least,
will be fighting in some very highly contested--what do you say to those
who are criticizing your policy? Where does the line end where they've
got to be very careful to not undermine American foreign policy?
The President. I don't know. You know, I'm not paying that much
attention to it. Maybe you are. I'm not. You know, one of these days,
they'll have a candidate, and then it will all sort out, kind of come in
[[Page 1376]]
focus. Primarily--I don't know what they're saying, so it's hard for me
to answer that.
Q. Democrats who are criticizing your policy now, some of them
fairly severely, about the war, does that hurt when you go to meet with
these foreign leaders? Does that have any resonance?
The President. You know, I can't--I don't know, because they have
never brought it up. Nobody has ever said, ``Your foreign policy is
being challenged in Democrat primaries, and therefore you're less
credible.'' I mean, it really hasn't come up. I think most people who
understand America know that the field will eventually be whittled down
to one opponent, and then we'll campaign.
Decisionmaking and Leadership
Q. You seem, on these trips in particular, to bond with some of
these leaders who have taken on very difficult problems at home, sort of
stuck their neck out, whether it's President Arroyo or--you had some of
those comments about the King of Jordan when he came. And I was just
wondering, do you relate to that at all, particularly in having to take
on the war on terrorism and kind of not, as you say, wanting to be too
comfortable and pretend that it's over?
The President. You know, that's an interesting question. First of
all, I like people. And I spend time trying to--I think about the other
person and how the other person might think and relate to the other
person's problems. I do have good relations with these leaders on an
individual basis, for a variety of reasons. I mean, Gloria
Arroyo, who is taking a tough stand
against Abu Sayyaf, there is a common bond there because she has made
some tough decisions. But these leaders--for example, Aznar of Spain or Blair of Britain,
these guys stood up, stood strong and were--did what they thought was
right. That's my approach.
I remember when we had the discussion down in Crawford, one of
reporters, fellow reporters, said, ``I hear you don't pay attention to
the press.'' I said, ``Not really.'' And he said, ``Why?'' And I said,
``Well, because sometimes your opinion matters to me and sometimes it
doesn't, but I've got a job, and I'm willing to lead.'' And the fellow
said, ``Well, how do you know what the people think?'' And I said,
``Well''--I reminded the fellow that people don't make up their mind
based upon what they write, and secondly, my job is to lead. My job is
to do what I think is the right thing and lead.
And I think those world leaders appreciate that, and I appreciate
that when I see that they make those tough decisions. There is a common
bond that's established when you're in the decisionmaking process and
you're not trying to chase popular will, which is fickle and moves
around. You stay focused on the objectives you set for a country. That's
a very good question. It may be an area where we do establish in common.
And I've reminded them at times that, just do what you think is
right, stand your ground in the face of public criticism, and the
people--when things turn out the way--for the good, people will judge
you correctly.
Dana [Dana Bash, Cable News Network], how are you?
Q. I'm well, thank you.
The President. Are you surviving this trip?
Q. I wish we just got a little more time in Bali.
The President. Yes, that and Hawaii. Look, I've heard all the
people----
Q. She spent her honeymoon in Bali.
The President. You'll be thankful when we get back. You'll be
grumpy--very grumpy, starting tomorrow, when we get airborne. But you'll
be thankful when we all land home.
Reform of the Palestinian Authority
Q. Mr. President, I was wondering, the last time we sat around this
table was coming from Aqaba.
[[Page 1377]]
The President. Middle East, that's right.
Q. And you were talking about how positive you felt about Prime
Minister Abbas and the fact that you thought that things would be able
to move forward.
The President. And they did move forward, for a while.
Q. I wonder if you could reflect on how you felt since--during the
fact that the man you put confidence in and hope in is gone.
The President. I was disappointed that Arafat shoved him out
of the way. I just--it was an unfortunate decision, because it stopped
good progress toward a Palestinian state. And when the Palestinian
Authority comes up with a leader who is willing to genuinely fight and
dismantle terrorist organizations, the process will pick up where it
left off and move forward.
Q. Are you confident of that?
The President. I hope it does. I think eventually it will. You've
got to be patient in foreign policy sometimes.
Q. Is there anything more the United States can do on that, or is
the roadmap--once they get on track on the roadmap, then things will
come back and move forward again?
The President. The roadmap is still there. And we just need
leadership willing to stand up and say, ``We're going to prevent the few
from letting the process move forward.'' And that's what they're doing.
There are a few people there that don't want a Palestinian state.
They've got different ambitions. And we've just got to fight them off.
Q. Do you think the public support of the U.S. for Abbas sort of got
Arafat to dig in his heels?
The President. I don't know. I really don't. I can't speculate as to
why the decision was made. This was an unfortunate decision, because it
delayed the development of a Palestinian state.
Prime Minister Mahathir's Remarks at
the Organization of the Islamic Conference Summit
Q. What did you tell Prime Minister Mahathir? Apparently he's saying
you didn't fuss at him.
The President. No, I walked up and said, the--I said, ``I want to
inform you that you're going to read the newspapers''--Condi had briefed the press about me saying that the
comments were reprehensible. I said, ``You're going to see--I'm here to
inform you that you're going to see that I thought your comments were
reprehensible.'' I said, ``They're divisive and unnecessary.'' I didn't
yell at him. I just told him--confirmed exactly what was in the
newspaper.
Q. How did he respond?
Q. Yes, what did he say?
The President. ``I was misquoted'' or something. I can't remember
exactly what he said, but I just had--that was it. You know the way I
felt.
Q. He said he was misquoted?
The President. Well, he said he was----
Q. Taken out of context?
The President. Yes, context, whatever he said to you all.
Press Secretary Scott McClellan. He said
that in the paper.
The President. Not misquoted. It's hard to misquote what he said.
Q. The issue were his comments. Obviously he's on his way out, but
the response, apparently, at the Islamic conference, was a round of
applause. What do you make of that?
The President. It's just unfortunate, again. I mean, it's one of
these situations where in order to achieve peace and freedom, you can't
pit groups against each other. And there's a tendency to blame Jewish
people. And that's not the policy--that's not how I think, and that's
not the policy of the United States Government. I wasn't there, so I
don't--pitting groups against each other will never achieve a
[[Page 1378]]
common objective. It does quite the opposite. He knew how I felt.
There's no question about that. I don't know, what did he say?
Q. [Inaudible]--he was asking Muslims to have more understanding, at
one part----
The President. Evidently, in his speech, he said that we need more
education, a terrorist ban, which is good. That was positive.
Madrid Donors' Conference
Q. I know you hate two questions, but I can just--just two quick
ones. You talked about your meeting with Hu, and that was positive. Is
there anything that he offered to you that he can--any pressure he can
apply on North Korea? And the second one is a brief one. Are you happy
with the progress or the contributions with the Madrid donors'
conference coming up?
The President. Donors' conference? Yes. I think we're making good
progress. And the question on Hu was?
North Korea
Q. Is there anything that he can--any pressure that he can apply on
North Korea? Did he say he would be able to do anything or----
The President. He is a--China is a major
presence in the neighborhood. And the fact that they're willing to take
the same message to the North Koreans that the United States is taking
to the North Koreans, along with three other nations, is a powerful
statement to Kim Chong-il that it's in his
national interest that he abandon his nuclear weapons ambitions and
that--he has been saying--as I said in the press conference, I think--
one of your questions--he's been saying, ``I want a security
guarantee.'' And what we have now said is that in return for dismantling
the programs, we're all willing to sign some kind of document, not a
treaty but a piece of paper that says we won't attack you. We'll see
what happens.
Q. How does that--a lot of people were saying we can't make it look
like we're giving in to blackmail from North Korea.
The President. What's changed is we've now got five countries
involved. And the neighborhood is now speaking. What happened before was
the bilateral relations with the United States. And now he's got his big neighbor to the--right on his border, he's got
a neighbor to the south, he's got Japan, he's got another neighbor,
Russia, all saying the same thing. It's a different dynamic, is what
I'm--that's where the policy has changed.
Q. This security guarantee, what should it say?
The President. That's what we'll determine. We haven't worked out
the words, but the point is, is that North Korea must hear that in
return for the dismantling of their program--in a verifiable way, by the
way; I mean, we're going to want to know--that now five nations are
willing to say something about his security.
Q. Everybody is behind that?
The President. Yes.
Iran
Q. Can I ask you one on Iran?
The President. On Iran? Yes.
Q. It seems like last night there was some maybe cautious optimism
that this is a good first step. If they comply with the three criteria
that you've laid out, would they be then allowed to have a civilian
nuclear energy program, or would that----
The President. Well, it depends on--first things first, and that is,
let us have, in a verifiable way, their agreement that was made with the
IAEA. The IAEA must be allowed in, and we'll discuss it then. Our
relations with Iran--that will help relations with Iran, obviously, if
they do abandon a nuclear weapons program. It will also help if they--we
end up doing a--reaching an agreement on the Al Qaida that they hold.
Q. What are the cross-strings there?
[[Page 1379]]
The President. You've got to have patience in foreign policy.
Q. Are you at all suspicious of the European motives?
The President. Am I suspicious? No, not in this case. No, I'm not. I
believe, in this case, they generally are concerned about Iran
developing a nuclear weapon. They understand the consequences. I
appreciate it very much. We spent a lot of time talking to the
European--our European counterparts, who are influential, more so than
we are, in Iran. You know, we've got a sanctions policy with Iran; they
don't. And there's influence. This is an effective approach. I've been
saying all along that not every policy issue needs to be dealt with by
force. There are ways to achieve common objectives, and this is a common
objective.
And the European Union--and we're speaking directly to Silvio
Berlusconi about it, who is the head of
the EU. We've also obviously spoke to the three--the leaders of the
countries who went into Iran. And they made a decision collectively in
Europe that it's not in their interest or the world interest that Iran
have a nuclear weapon. And we came to that conclusion, they've come to
that conclusion, and working together is an effective way. It's the same
approach--kind of approach we're taking in North Korea as well, a
collective voice trying to convince a leader to change behavior.
Legislative Agenda
Q. [Inaudible]--Republicans in Congress didn't follow your wishes on
the phone----
The President. I thought they did in the House. There's two bodies.
North Korea
Q. Do you regret saying that you loathe Kim Chong-il? Some people
think that it helped them sort of--it made them sort of harden their
position----
The President. Any leader who starves his--made him do what?
Q. It just made him----
The President. Made Kim Chong-il--surely it didn't make Kim Chong-
il renege on the last agreement, did it? Because
I wasn't there, you know what I'm saying?
Q. Right, but they've been much more vocal about their nuclear
ambitions.
The President. No, they've been--remember, they lobbed a rocket
over----
Q. Japan.
The President. Remember the rocket over Japan? Keep it in
perspective. Anybody who starves his people is--I just can't respect
anybody that would really let his people starve and shrink in size as a
result of malnutrition. It's a sad, sad situation for the North Korean
people. That's one people--I've assured the--our partners in this effort
that we deeply care about the plight of the North Korean people. It's
just unconscionable that that many people are starving in the 21st
century. We provide--we're a generous nation. We provided food. We're
not so sure the food is getting to the people, is one of the issues that
we face. I feel strongly about failed leadership dashing the hopes of
the people, in this case creating incredible starvation.
Q. Thank you.
The President. You're welcome.
Note: The interview was taped at 3:10 p.m. aboard Air Force One en route
to Canberra, Australia. In his remarks, the President referred to
President Hu Jintao of China; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea;
Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; President Roh Moo-hyun of
South Korea; President Vladimir Putin of Russia; President Megawati
Sukarnoputri of Indonesia; President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo of the
Philippines; Prime Minister John Howard of Australia; former Prime
Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) and Chairman Yasser Arafat of the
Palestinian Authority; former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Lt. Gen.
William G. Boykin, USA, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for
Intelligence; President Jose Maria Aznar of Spain; Prime Minister
[[Page 1380]]
Tony Blair of the United Kingdom; Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohammed
of Malaysia; and Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy. A reporter
referred to King Abdullah II of Jordan. A tape was not available for
verification of the content of this interview.