[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
[November 12, 2003]
[Pages 1550-1558]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
[[Page 1550]]
Interview With Sir David Frost of BBC Television
November 12, 2003
President's Upcoming Visit to the United Kingdom
Mr. Frost. Mr. President, a lot of people say this might be your
first trip to London, but it's not.
The President. No, it's not. I've been there a couple of times. I
remember, Laura and I went to see ``Cats'' in
London. Gosh, I remember going to some nice pubs when I was a drinking
man in London. It's a great city, and I'm looking forward to going.
Mr. Frost. We're looking forward to seeing you there, too. In fact,
of course, you're famous for the fact that normally social--dressing up
socially is not your favorite thing, and you once said that marvelous
quote, ``Read my lips: No new tuxes.''
The President. That's right. [Laughter]
Mr. Frost. Are you going to take a new tux this time?
The President. I'm going to take a tux, and I'm going to take tails.
And don't tell anybody, but I had to rent them. [Laughter] I'm sure you
won't tell anybody.
Mr. Frost. This is entirely between us.
The President. I'm looking forward to--it's a huge honor to be
invited by Her Majesty to stay in
Buckingham Palace. It's hard to imagine me even considering staying in
Buckingham Palace when I was living in Midland, Texas. It's just one of
those things. And Buckingham Palace has got a tremendous mystique to it,
and so Laura and I are really looking forward to
coming.
President's Agenda in the United Kingdom
Mr. Frost. And you pinch yourself about those things too. What would
you like to see come out of this trip in terms of--in addition to the
fun part?
The President. Well, I've got some business to do with Tony
Blair. We've got a lot of things to discuss.
We're going to talk about how to continue to spread freedom and peace.
We'll talk about how to work the compassion agenda on the AIDS
Initiative, for example. We're going to spend some time talking about
that.
I value his advice, and I--every time I visit with him, whether it
be on the phone or on video or in person, I come away with a--some
interesting ideas about how to advance a positive agenda.
Secondly, I look forward to speaking to the people of your great
country. I'm going to have a chance to give a speech to talk about the
importance of our relationship, the unique relationship between America
and Great Britain. And I'll have a chance to answer some questions, I'm
sure, from what we call the Fourth Estate here, the mighty media. I look
forward to it.
Protests/War on Terror
Mr. Frost. And Tony Blair on Monday night--and he would probably
have told you--is expecting there to be quite a lot of protesters about
the war. What would be your message to those protesters?
The President. Well, freedom is a beautiful thing, I would first
say, and aren't you lucky to be in a country that encourages people to
speak their mind. And I value going to a country where people are free
to say anything they want to say. Secondly, I would say that I
understand you don't like war, and neither do I. But I would hope you
understand that I have learned the lessons of September the 11th, 2001,
and that terrorists declared war on the United States of America and war
on people that love freedom, and I intend to lead our Nation, along with
others like our close friends in Great Britain, to win this war on
terror, that war is my last choice, not my first choice, but I have an
obligation as the President to keep our country secure.
[[Page 1551]]
Blair-Bush Relationship
Mr. Frost. And at the same time, you'll be working with Tony Blair,
and what is the key to your working together so well? I mean, it's like
you have a special relationship. Is partially the bond, the bond that
you're both men of strong faith?
The President. I think so. Tony is a man of strong faith. You know,
the key to my relationship with Tony is he tells the truth, and he tells
you what he thinks, and when he says he's going to do something, he's
going to do it. I trust him, therefore. I've seen him, under some
tough--tough circumstances, stand strong, and I appreciate that in a
person.
The other thing I admire about Tony Blair is that he's got a vision
beyond the current. In other words, he can see a world that is peaceful,
and he agrees with me that the spread of democracy and freedom in parts
of the world where there's violence and hatred will help change the
world, that there are reformers in the Middle East that long for
democracy, that long to live in a free world. And Tony Blair, like me,
agrees--kind of rejects the elitist point of view that only a certain
type of person can adapt the habits of freedom and democracy. And he
knows that freedom in the Middle East will help change that world in
dramatic fashion. So it's an historic moment which he has been willing
to seize, and I'm honored to be working with him to seize the moment.
Public Opinion/Lessons of September 11
Mr. Frost. And in terms of as you look at the world, Mr. President,
at the moment and you see the protesters in Australia or wherever they
are and you see that poll that came out, an EU poll the other day that
shows that the United States was second among the most dangerous
countries in terms of war in the world--level, for God's sake, with
North Korea and Iran--when you see things like that, do you think the
world is out of step with America, or America is out of step with the
world?
The President. Well, first of all, you've got to know, I don't pay
attention to the polls. I just don't. I've got a job to do for the
American people. It's a job that was changed on September the 11th,
2001, and I refuse to--I refuse to forget--I'll never forget the
lessons, is a better way to put it, of what happened to this country.
And there are terrorists who are willing to kill innocent life in order
to create fear and chaos. There are terrorists who want the free world
to retreat from duties so that they can impose Taliban-type governments
and enslave people. There are people like Saddam Hussein, who tortured and maimed and killed and, at the same
time, threatened and created the conditions of instability. And I know
some people don't understand the need to deal with that, but I feel
firmly we must deal with those issues.
Mr. Frost. But do you need to woo people more in the rest of the
world?
The President. We wooed--we did a pretty good job of wooing them at
the United Nations. After all, remember, 1441 was a unanimous vote that
said, after a decade of sending messages to Mr. Saddam Hussein for him to disarm, 1441 said, ``Disarm or there will
be serious consequences.'' And that was a unanimous vote. In other
words, the world, at least the Security Council, came together and sent
a clear signal. Obviously, there was a disagreement about the definition
of ``serious consequence.'' But I can assure you, ``serious
consequence'' isn't more resolutions or more debate. ``Serious
consequence'' was with dealing with Mr. Saddam Hussein today, before it
became too late.
And I understand people don't agree with that position. But
nevertheless, I'm convinced that the decisions we made--and there's a
lot of countries that made that decision with us--that decision will
make the world more peaceful and more free. That decision is in the
long-term interests of people who love freedom.
[[Page 1552]]
France and Germany
Mr. Frost. And will you ever be able to forgive Jacques Chirac and
Chancellor Schroeder for their actions of that time in undermining the
second resolution?
The President. Of course. It's like, I can understand why people
express their disagreement with the policy. I understand not everybody
is going to agree with every decision that I make or others make. But
I've had meetings with Gerhard Schroeder
and Jacques Chirac since then. They've been
very cordial meetings. Gerhard Schroeder has now committed German troops
to Afghanistan, which is a very important mission, to help stabilize
that good country as it not only enacts a constitution but heads toward
elections. And I appreciate the contribution of the German Government
toward Afghanistan. I'm proud to say that it is a vital contribution,
and I appreciate their willingness to work with us.
Again, we're not going to agree on every issue, but a Europe which
works closely with America and an America which works closely with
Europe means the world will be better off.
EU-U.S. Relations
Mr. Frost. The difference really is, between Tony Blair and them, is
that Tony Blair sees Europe as a partner of the United States, and they
perhaps see Europe as a rival of the United States.
The President. I don't think Germany sees that, for starters. In my
conversations with Gerhard Schroeder, they
never yielded that impression. I think Germany understands it's
important for the bilateral relationship between America and Germany to
be strong. It's in our economic interests that it's strong. It's in the
interest of peace that it be strong.
I understand there was kind of this notion of multipolarity, which
means that somehow the values of America need to be offset. But we're
for peace; we're for freedom. This country is leading the world when it
comes to fighting AIDS. And I can assure you, having studied this issue
a lot, and I understand the pandemic of AIDS on the continent of Africa,
we'll be better off--the people of Africa will be better off if Europe
and the United States work together to fight the pandemic of AIDS. My
only point is, there's a lot we can do working together.
European Defense Force
Mr. Frost. And what about the--I gather that you have some
misgivings about the proposed European army, the danger that it might be
a threat to NATO.
The President. Yes, here's the thing, first of all, I believe that
the European defense force ought to take on more responsibility on those
missions which NATO turns down. I think it's good for the United States'
interests. I think it's good for NATO's interests, so long as the
defense force doesn't undermine the vitality of NATO. And Tony
Blair tells me that the discussions he's having
with other European countries will in no way undermine NATO, and I take
his word for it. He's been a man who's been true to his word on a lot of
issues, and I believe he'll be true to his word on this issue.
Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction
Mr. Frost. Tell me about--in terms of Iraq, tell me about weapons of
mass destruction. The fact that we didn't find them, and so on, has been
much discussed. But do you think that you were the victim of a failure
of intelligence in a way?
The President. Not at all.
Mr. Frost. No?
The President. No, not at all. I think our intelligence was sound. I
know the British intelligence was sound. It's the same intelligence that
caused the United Nations to pass resolution after resolution after
resolution. It's the same intelligence that was used by my predecessor
to bomb Iraq. I'm very confident we got good intelligence. And not only
that, Mr. David Kay, who
[[Page 1553]]
went over to kind of lead the effort to find the weapons or the intent
of weapons, came back with a report that clearly stated that Mr. Saddam
Hussein would--had been in material breach of
Resolution 1441. In other words, had the inspectors found what Kay
found, they would have reported back to the United Nations that he was
in breach, that he was in violation of exactly what the United Nations
expected him not to do.
We'll find the truth. But this guy for many years had been hiding
weapons, deceiving weapons. He had dual-use programs that could have
been sped up. Nobody could say that Saddam Hussein wasn't a danger. Not only was he a danger to the free
world--and that's what the world said; the world said it consistently--
he was a danger to his own people as well. Remember, we discovered mass
graves with hundreds of thousands of men and women and children
clutching their little toys, as a result of this person's brutality.
Go ahead. Sorry.
Mr. Frost. But in terms of--did you feel, in terms of if there
wasn't a failure of intelligence, that there was a sort of exaggeration
in what was predicted? I mean, did you ever believe that stuff, for
instance? Did you ever believe that stuff about him having weapons of
mass destruction that could be unleashed in 45 minutes, or did you never
really believe that?
The President. I believe he was a
dangerous man.
Mr. Frost. But you didn't believe that.
The President. Well, I believed a lot of things. But I know he was a
dangerous man. And I know that for the sake of security, he needed to be
dealt with. After all--again I repeat this because it's a very important
point that people in your country must remember, and that is, the world
had spoken, universally spoken, about this man's danger for 12 long
years. And in order for--at the very minimum, in order for a
multinational organization to be valid and effective, something has to
happen other than resolutions. And when an organization says, ``If you
don't disarm''--in other words, in order to say, ``They don't disarm,''
intelligence convinced a lot of nations, including France, that he had
weapons. In other words, he had to disarm something. ``Dismantle your
programs. If you don't do that, there will be a serious consequence.''
And the fundamental question is, what is a ``serious consequence''?
It's not another resolution. It's not more empty debate. A ``serious
consequence,'' in this case, was removing Saddam Hussein so that his weapons programs would not be activated.
And David Kay found evidence of weapons programs.
He found some biological weapons--evidence of biological weapons. And it
doesn't take much time----
Mr. Frost. But we really need the big discovery, don't we?
The President. Well, that's pretty big, what I just told you. Now
remember, for a long period of time, it was assumed that he didn't have a nuclear weapons program. And yet, after
1991, the world had to--changed its attitude about this man's nuclear
weapons program and admitted that it was very advanced. A nuclear weapon
in the hands of somebody like Saddam Hussein, particularly given the
lessons of September the 11th, 2001, would be a horrendous development.
And we had to deal with him. And we did--in a way, by the way, that was
a compassionate way. We spared innocent life. We targeted the guilty,
and we moved hard and fast. And very little of Iraq was touched in
toppling Saddam Hussein.
Planning for Iraq After Combat Operations
Mr. Frost. Did we, in fact--people have said, Mr. President, as you
know, that the same meticulous planning that went into winning the war
didn't go into winning the peace, and we were a bit unprepared for some
of the surprises, the unpleasant surprises, you know, the terrorists and
all of that that came along. Is that a fair comment?
[[Page 1554]]
The President. No--[laughter]--it's not a fair comment. We look at
all contingencies and are dealing with the contingencies. Look, let me--
if I could step back and maybe think out loud here about some of the
stories or some of the speculation that was going on before we went into
Iraq: One, the oil revenues would be blown up; the oil fields would be
destroyed. They weren't. As a matter of fact, oil production is up to
2.1 million or 2.2 million barrels a day, to the benefit of the Iraqi
people. That's a very important point.
Remember, there was speculation about sectarian violence, that the
long-suppressed Kurds or Shi'a may take out their anxieties and their
frustrations on the Sunnis. That didn't happen. There was talk about
mass starvation; it didn't happen. Refugee flows that would be
unmanageable--that never happened. And so a lot of the contingency that
we had planned for didn't happen. What has happened is that in a
relatively small part of the country, there are Ba'athist----
Mr. Frost. You call it now the Ba'athist Triangle.
The President. ----Sunni Triangle, they are attacking. And they're
attacking not only coalition forces; they're attacking innocent Iraqis,
because what they're trying to do is stop the spread of progress.
Mr. Frost. It's almost a guerrilla war there, really.
The President. Well, I would call it a desperate attempt by people
who were totally in control of government, through tyrannical means, to
regain power. This is nothing more than a power grab.
Now, there are some foreign fighters, mujahideen types or Al Qaida
or Al Qaida affiliates involved as well. They've got a different
mission. They want to install a Taliban-type Government in Iraq, or they
want to seek revenge for getting whipped in Afghanistan. But
nevertheless, they all have now found common ground for a brief period
of time. And what we will do is, we will use Iraqi intelligence; we will
use Iraqi security forces--we're up to about 118,000 Iraqi folks in one
type of uniform or another securing the country--to be a integral part
of chasing these killers down and to bring them to justice before they
kill innocent life.
Mr. Frost. But it must have taken us a bit by surprise, or otherwise
we'd have prepared for it, the level of this--the combination of the,
what, 700, perhaps, foreign terrorists who came into Iraq, and so on.
That was----
The President. I don't think so. I think a lot the people who came
in initially wish they hadn't come in initially, or they're not wishing
at all right now. But no, we understood it was going to be tough. We've
been there for 7 months, David, which seems like a long time,
particularly giving the news cycles the way they are. I'm certainly not
complaining about the news cycles, but nevertheless, there's a certain
sense of impatience that has now crept into the world. And my job is to
enable our operators and military to make adjustments necessary to
succeed. We've got the same strategy, which is a peaceful Iraq. The
tactics shift, depending upon the decisions of the enemy. We're making
progress.
That's not to say it's not tough. Of course, it's tough. What they
want to do is, they want to shake the will of the free world. And the
good news about having a partner like Tony Blair
is, he won't be shaken. And neither will I, and neither will Jose Maria
Aznar. I heard Berlusconi stand up with a strong statement after the Italian
police had been murdered. And we, of course, send our sympathies and
prayers to the Italian people. But Berlusconi said, ``They're not going
to run us out.''
And that's what these terrorists need to hear. And more importantly,
or as importantly, the Iraqi citizens need to hear that. They need to
know that we won't leave the country prematurely. They need to know two
things: We're not going to cut and run; and two, we believe they have
the capacity to run their own country.
[[Page 1555]]
Timetable for Iraq
Mr. Frost. The cut-and-run thing, obviously, is absolutely vital.
And you've said you're not going to cut and run. You'll be there as long
as it takes. Tony Blair, in his speech on Monday night, said, ``We're
not going to retreat one inch.'' I mean, we're there for how long it
takes to produce a successful Iraqi democracy, are we?
The President. Yes, absolutely.
Mr. Frost. Whether that's years and years or what?
The President. Well, we don't think it will be years and years,
because, first of all, we think the Iraqi people are plenty capable of
running their own country, and we think they want to run their own
country. And just today I had discussions with Jerry Bremer, our Ambassador in Baghdad, who flew back
to discuss ways----
Mr. Frost. Oh, yes----
The President. Well, just to discuss ways to do--to assure the Iraqi
people that we have confidence in their capability. See, some in the
world, some in the world don't believe that Iraq can run itself. They
believe that, ``Might as well let them have a military dictatorship or a
tyrant. That's the only way they can be governed.''
I disagree, and Tony Blair disagrees with
that. We believe that democracy will take hold in Iraq, and we believe a
free and democratic Iraq will help change the Middle East. There are
hundreds of reformers that are desperate for freedom. Freedom--freedom
is not America's gift to the world or Great Britain's gift to the world.
Freedom is the Almighty's gift to everybody who lives in the world.
Role of Saddam Hussein
Mr. Frost. Is there any likelihood that Saddam himself could be
behind this violence?
The President. Saddam Hussein is a violent man. Listen, he tortured
and maimed and killed. He had rape rooms, and people disappeared because
they spoke out against him. We've discovered mass graves. He's a brutal,
brutal tyrant--brutal tyrant. We did the Iraqi people a great favor by
removing him. So I wouldn't be surprised that any kind of violence is
promoted by him, but I don't know. I don't know. All I know is, we're
after him.
Role of World Opinion in Regime Change
Mr. Frost. That's one of the interesting things. I mean, nobody has
time for a moment for Saddam Hussein. Some people are worried in England
and around the world by the idea of regime change, because they say,
``Once we've done regime change, Britain and America with Saddam
Hussein, what can we say if India wants to do regime change with
Pakistan, or Pakistan wants to do regime change with India?''
The President. Well, see, I can understand their concerns, except
they forgot the history. This issue has been discussed in the United
Nations for over a decade. And the United Nations, as a multilateral
international body, passed resolution after resolution after resolution
calling for Saddam Hussein to disarm. In other words, the diplomatic
process went forward. There was plenty of diplomacy. And to the critics,
I would say that there will be diplomacy when it comes to India and
Pakistan. The world will speak out clearly.
The problem is, is that when the world speaks out clearly and then
nothing happens, all we've got is empty words. It's tyrants that take
advantage of that. Tyrants--if tyrants don't fear--feel like they can
torture and kill with impunity, feel like they can blackmail the world,
and all the world does is put out empty words, it makes multilateralism
extremely ineffective.
If I could take a second to remind your viewers that, obviously, not
every situation needs to be solved militarily. Military option is the
last option, as far as I'm concerned. And I would refer people to North
Korea, where we've got a multilateral attempt to convince Kim Chong-
il to get rid
[[Page 1556]]
of his nuclear ambitions. We understand, just like Saddam
Hussein, that he has been torturous to his
people--people in North Korea are starving to death--and that weapons of
mass destruction in his hands given his history, just like weapons of
mass destruction in Saddam's hands given his history, is a very
dangerous element. It's a dangerous--it inhibits the capacity for peace
and freedom to spread.
But what I've done is, I've convinced China and South Korea and
Japan and Russia to speak with one voice to the North Koreans, and say,
``Get rid of your nuclear ambitions.'' We're also, at the same time,
working on a counterproliferation regime that will stop his ability to
ship weapons of mass destruction or a nuclear warhead to a terrorist
group. In other words, we're working together in a multilateral,
multinational fashion to bring peace and stability to the world.
War on Terror
Mr. Frost. Someone who knows how passionate you are about this war
on terror and Iraq and so on said, ``I know George Bush, and I think, in
terms of his legacy, he'd rather--I'll tell you how strongly he feels.
He said he'd rather be defeated by the voters than by the terrorists.''
Is that true?
The President. I'd rather not be defeated by either. [Laughter] And
we will not be defeated by the terrorists. I say that confidently,
because the allies in the war on terror are strong and steadfast, and
there's no stronger and steadfast ally in the war on terror than Tony
Blair. He understands the stakes. He knows that
freedom is being challenged. He understands as well that the spread of
freedom and democracy, in the long run, will defeat terror. And that's
why the battle--the stakes are so high in Iraq right now. By the way,
Iraq is a front in the war on terror. And it's important for people to
understand that, because the war takes place elsewhere.
Reform of the Palestinian Authority
Mr. Frost. And in--one of the reasons that people say, in the Arab
world--obviously there was your landmark speech last week--but in the
Arab world, that you won't really be able to address the balance against
America until the United States is seen not to tilt towards Israel in
the Middle East. What do you think about that?
The President. I think about that: I think it's an excuse, because
America--I am the first President ever to go to the United Nations----
Mr. Frost. And say, two----
The President. Two states side by side in peace.
Mr. Frost. ----two states.
The President. No President has ever said that. And I said it, and I
said it with conviction, because I believe it is in Israel's interest
that there be a peaceful Palestinian state, and I know it's in the
Palestinians' interest. However, to achieve a peaceful Palestinian
state, the emergence of a peaceful Palestinian state, a state where
people are willing to risk capital, a place where people are willing to
develop an economy, there must be a focused effort to defeat terror. And
there hasn't been with the current Palestinian leadership.
I went in and embraced, in Aqaba, Jordan, Abu Mazen. And the reason I did so, David, is because he
came to the Oval Office and he said, ``I will join you in the fight
against terror. We're not going to allow the few to destroy the hopes of
the many.'' As well, I could sense in his talk, in his feeling, that he
has--he's got great trust in the Palestinian people. In other words,
given the chance, the Palestinian people will develop the habits of
democracy, and out of that will come a great state, a peaceful state.
And I trusted him, and we were working with him. We were making good
progress. And I was working with Ariel Sharon.
I gave a speech on June
[[Page 1557]]
24th, 2002, which says, ``All of us have responsibilities, and you,
Israel, have a responsibility.''
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel
Mr. Frost. Do you think Ariel Sharon could ever emerge as a man of
peace?
The President. Yes, I do. I believe he wants peace for his people. I
truly do. I mean, he's a man who has presided over suiciders, where he
has to go to the funerals of women and children because some cold-
blooded killer is trying to destroy the hopes of all the people in the
region. And it's--yes, I believe so. And I believe he believes in a
Palestinian state. I've asked him in the Oval Office, I said, ``Listen,
am I out there by myself on a Palestinian state, or will you support
it?'' He said he will. But both of us understand, as do a lot of other
people, that for a state to emerge, there must be a focused effort to
get after the Hamas killers, for example, who want to destroy the hopes
of the people that believe in a Palestinian state. And there hasn't been
that effort.
Anyway, let me finish my Abu Mazen story, if you don't mind. I embraced the guy, and I
believe that he is a--I believe he's a partner with whom we can work,
and he's shoved out. Progress is being made, and he is shoved aside by
the old guard. And that's unacceptable behavior. It's just unacceptable.
British Detainees at Guantanamo Bay
Mr. Frost. Guantanamo. You're going to get asked about, obviously,
in England, what's going to happen to our British detainees. Tony Blair
was talking about it in the House of Commons this week and saying,
hopefully they'd be tried before a proper court or repatriated to be
tried in the U.K. Will you have any good news for us on that? For him on
that?
The President. You mean right here, sitting right here, me and you,
talking--the good news is, one, they'll be treated fairly, like they
are. And two, I'm working closely with Tony to
come up with a solution that he's comfortable with. And I emphasize, a
solution that he's comfortable with. These prisoners are being treated--
these were illegal non-combatants picked up off of a battlefield. And
they're being well-treated, and they will go through a military tribunal
at some point in time, which is--a military tribunal, which is in
international accord--or in line with international accords.
Mr. Frost. As we approach the end of this interview, Mr. President--
I could carry on for hours, actually, but I know you've got a lot to do,
more than the rest of us. As we approach the end of this interview, what
would you say is the most important lesson you've learned in life in the
Presidency?
The President. The most important lesson in life in the Presidency
is to have a clear vision of where you want to lead, and lead. I've got
a clear vision: It's a world that is more free and therefore more
peaceful; a world based upon human rights, human dignity, and justice; a
world that does not discriminate between one group of people or--a
vision that does not discriminate between one group of people or
another, because I believe all people have the desire to be free. And
I'm willing to lead there.
And the people of this country will make their--you asked about
politics--they'll make the decision as to whether or not they--I've have
been honest with them and open with them and whether or not they like my
leadership style. A lot of it will have to do with the economy, of
course, whether I get another 4 years. But I think it's important to
know where you want to lead, and lead.
Bush Team for a Second Term
Mr. Frost. Would you hope to present to the country the same team,
Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell and Condi Rice, for the
second term?
The President. It's been a fabulous team, and Cheney for certain. And I haven't--
[[Page 1558]]
obviously, I'm not going to talk to my Cabinet ministers until after the
election. But I'm proud of this team. I put together one of the finest
teams, one of the finest administrations any President has ever
assembled. These are good, honest, decent, hard-working, experienced
people who give me good, unvarnished advice and, when I make a decision,
say, ``Yes, sir, Mr. President, we'll go execute it.''
Mr. Frost. Well, thank you for your decision to do this interview.
The President. Thank you, sir. I enjoyed seeing you.
Note: The interview was taped at 3:08 p.m. on November 12 in the Map
Room at the White House for later broadcast on BBC One's ``Breakfast
With Frost.'' The transcript was released by the Office of the Press
Secretary on November 17. In his remarks, the President referred to
Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom;
former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of
Germany; President Jacques Chirac of France; former President William J.
Clinton; David Kay, CIA Special Advisor for Strategy Regarding Iraqi
Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs; President Jose Maria Aznar of
Spain; Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy; L. Paul Bremer III,
Presidential Envoy to Iraq; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea; and
former Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the Palestinian
Authority. Portions of this interview could not be verified because the
tape was incomplete.