    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
    [October 22, 2003]
    [Pages 1372-1380]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Members of the White House Press Pool
    October 22, 2003

        The President. What I thought I would do is just----
        Q. On the record?
        The President. Yes, on the record. I thought I would just give you
    some observations of this trip and then answer some questions. Just
    first observation is that we have worked hard to build up good bilateral
    relations in the Far East. And the--part of the purpose of the trip is
    to continue to foster those relations.
        It struck me as interesting that the United States now has got good
    enough relations with both--with countries like Japan and South Korea
    and China to effect policy which helps our mutual security and our
    economy--and economy. I think that's a very positive development.
        The most notable example of where that is taking--where it is
    helping is in North Korea. When I visited with Hu Jintao, I spent a lot of time talking about North Korea, our
    mutual desire to effect change with Kim Chong-il. And it was a very positive discussion. But I also had the
    very same discussion with Koizumi and
    President Roh. I mentioned it to
    Vladimir. I didn't have a bilateral with
    Vladimir Putin, but I did talk to him about it in passing.
        My point is, is that by working hard to establish good relations on
    a lot of fronts, when a common problem arises, we can effect the
    solution in a positive way. I know you asked me, Steve [Steve Holland,
    Reuters], about the North Korean reaction. I didn't exactly see what
    official said it. But I--what I hope my answer conveyed to you in public
    there was that this requires a degree of patience, because Kim Chong-
    il is used to being able to deal bilaterally
    with the United States. But the change of policy now is, is that he must
    deal with other nations, most notably China. And I was pleased with my
    discussions with Hu Jintao, about his--reaffirming
    his mutual desire--or his desire, which is our mutual goal, that Kim
    Chong-il disarm. He realizes that it's a problem.
        We discussed the security guarantees, what form they may come in. I
    made it very clear, obviously--I said this during the pool spray there--
    that a treaty is not going

    [[Page 1373]]

    to happen, but there are other ways to effect on paper what I have said
    publicly--we have no intention of invading. Obviously, any guarantee
    would be conditional on Kim Chong-il doing what
    he hopefully will say he'll do, which is to get rid of his nuclear
    weapons programs.
        The APEC summit was positive. I mean, one of the things that's very
    important--the two things that came out of that, although evidently
    didn't get equal emphasis, but they were equally emphasized by all
    parties, was, one, the need to get the Doha Round of trade going again.
    This was really one of the first official meetings of a group of
    countries after the Cancun talks broke down. And there was a positive
    statement coming out of the meeting, kind of universal agreement that
    Cancun was a missed opportunity. Hopefully the missed opportunity will
    be--will serve as a catalyst. I think people now have taken a step back
    and said, ``Well, we did miss an opportunity,'' and hopefully this will
    enable the talks--kind of not start at ground zero but have a running
    start as a result of the missed opportunity.
        And it's interesting, in the room there is something like 60 percent
    of all the world trade--was affected--was countries in that room, and
    therefore it was a, I think, a very positive and strong statement.
        The other thing was the clear understanding of the countries of the
    need to fight terror. That's important for the United States, that
    people continue to recognize that the war on terror goes on. I've always
    felt that there's a tendency for people to kind of seek a comfort zone
    and hope that the war on terror is over. And I view it as a
    responsibility of the United States to remind people of our mutual
    obligations to deal with the terrorists.
        That notion of responsible behavior by countries was finally
    accepted. This was not a--didn't require a lot of push. People
    understood. President Megawati
    understands that when terrorists bomb Bali, it affects economies. It not
    only--there's a serious economic consequence, same thing we felt on
    September the 11th, to our economy.
        That was a very positive development. Bilateral discussion with all
    the leaders--in those bilateral discussions, we talked about this war on
    terror. Gloria Arroyo, with Abu
    Sayyaf, President Megawati just hours
    ago, we talked about the continued need for us to work together.
        I think the other notable--when you step back and take a look at
    what our work with these Asian countries has been, they understand the
    Iraq issue well. South Korea was very forthcoming. Japan is forthcoming.
    Hu Jintao made it clear that he--that a peaceful Iraq was in the world
    interest. Those are all positive developments in kind of the aftermath
    of the military operation. And I think it speaks to our--the nature of
    our relationship with these countries right now.
        Obviously we haven't been to Australia, but Australia is a key
    component in a peaceful Asia-Pacific region and a key partner in the war
    on terror. So I'm looking forward to seeing John Howard. He and I have got a great relationship. He is a--as I
    said in Crawford, he's a man of steel. He's a standup guy.
        Q. A sheriff?
        The President. He's a sheriff. See, that's a good lesson. You should
    never answer the question you're asked. [Laughter] Actually, I answered
    it for a reason. Of all the people in the world who understand Texas,
    it's probably Australians.
        Q. Patsy [Patricia Wilson, Reuters].
        The President. Yes, Patsy. Anyway, it's going to be a good visit
    down there. We had some good discussions there at APEC, but this will be
    a chance to further our discussions and assure the Australian people
    that the American people are really grateful for the support and mutual
    efforts to make the world secure.
        I had a good visit with the religious leaders today. It was an
    important visit. There were three Muslims, a Christian, and a Hindu. A
    couple of observations from the

    [[Page 1374]]

    meeting: One, there was kind of a sense that Americans believe that
    Muslims are terrorists. And one of the reasons I wanted to have this
    meeting was because I wanted to make it very clear that I didn't feel
    that way and Americans don't feel that way. And I made it--assured them
    that Americans know that these terrorists are hiding behind Islam in
    order to create fear and chaos and death.
        Secondly, there was a--they did bring up the Middle East. I
    explained to them what our policy was, that in order for there to be a
    Palestinian state--and I reminded them I was the first President to have
    articulated that--that there needs to be a concerted effort to fight off
    the terrorists who are trying to prevent the establishment of a state. I
    didn't really have time to go in further than that, about the whole
    Aqaba accords and the progress we were making, until the Prime
    Minister, who had avowed--who
    vowed to fight terror with us, was eased out.
        Let's see, what else did they discuss? Iraq, of course. I assured
    them that we would do our job, and then the Iraqis will run themselves,
    and that our job means to provide enough security so that the Iraqi
    citizens are able to write a constitution and hold elections, at which
    point the United States and the coalition forces will move on. And I
    think they were pleased to hear it. I don't want to put words in their
    mouth, but I think that relieved them to know that we have confidence in
    the Iraqi people's abilities to be a peaceful, free society.
        National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. You listened.
        The President. Well, they did a lot of talking.
        National Security Adviser Rice. They had a lot to say.
        The President. They had some prepared texts. There was a good
    exchange. I'm glad I did it. They were, I think, appreciative of the
    fact I took time to listen to them and dispel some notions and to--my
    own personal views about religion and the views of our country. I
    reminded them, we've got a lot of Muslims living in the United States,
    and they make an important contribution to our country, and they're
    welcome in the United States. And we're a pluralistic, free society;
    people can worship the way they want to worship. And it works well in
    America.
        All in all, it's been a very positive experience.

    Indonesia Meeting With Religious Leaders

        Q. Was it confrontational at all?
        The President. Not at all, polite.
        Q. You said that there were some texts. Did they come out with the
    line about--what did they tell you? How direct were they? They said some
    things going into the meeting that the United States policy is tilted
    against Muslims. What did they----
        The President. They said the United States policy is tilted toward
    Israel, and I said our policy is tilted toward peace and that--and then
    I went through the notion of a Palestinian state and the need for us to
    fight off terror in order for a state to develop.
        There wasn't a lot of debate. There were five people there that
    felt--that all needed to say something. So I gave them all a time to
    speak, and I listened and would occasionally interject some thoughts
    about what they had said. But they were direct. One fellow felt that the
    war on Iraq was--I guess the best way to put it was maybe just--I can't
    remember his exact words, but it was like we just decided to act. And I
    reminded him that the world had spoken before, that there was a--the
    United States had passed--I didn't get into all the resolutions, but I
    made it clear that a process had gone on way before I made the decision
    to use military force, that the world had spoken before about Saddam
    Hussein.
        I also made the point very clearly that there was a lot of human
    suffering; a lot of Muslims suffered in Iraq. And I did bring up the
    mass graves and the torture

    [[Page 1375]]

    rooms and the rape rooms and the death at the hands of Saddam Hussein.
    My point to them was, was that we ended a lot of suffering, prevented a
    lot of suffering.

    Lieutenant General Boykin

        Q. Is your job made tougher in convincing them that Americans don't
    have a war on--don't dislike Islam when you have General Boykin saying
    that Muslims all----
        The President. Yes, that came up. Boykin came up. I said he didn't
    reflect my opinion. Look, it just doesn't reflect what the Government
    thinks. And I think they were pleased to hear that.

    Indonesia Meeting With Religious Leaders

        Q. Something in your answer to your Terry's [Terence Hunt,
    Associated Press] question was interesting. You articulated the fact
    that you're the President--first President to advocate a Palestinian
    state. And obviously in trying to reassure Muslims----
        The President. Not that good a question. Go ahead.
        Q. ----not only in America but around the world, potential terrorist
    hotbeds--to reassure people who are interested in this subject of that
    point. It's not something we have heard you saying a lot lately. Is
    there a reason----
        The President. About a Palestinian state?
        Q. Right, that you were the first President to advocate it.
        The President. I say it quite a bit. I mean, I really do. First of
    all, in America, most people know that. In Indonesia, maybe they didn't
    pay attention to it. But anyway, I explained it. It was not a--I don't
    view that as--I wouldn't read anything into that, I had to say that in
    Indonesia, but not saying it in every press conference I give.
        Q. Can I ask you about some of the leaders you've met with here?
        The President. Well, anyway----
        Q. I guess what I'm getting at is, it's a good thing to have out
    there, I guess. We don't hear it a lot.
        The President. Yes, I don't know. There's a lot of things that
    there's misconceptions. Evidently it's a misconceptions that Americans
    believe that Muslims are terrorists. And there was a--that's probably
    one of the best things that came out of the meeting, for me, was to have
    heard that concern, and for me being able to assure people and remind
    them about the nature of our society, that--and that Islam's a peaceful
    religion. The basic tenets of Islam is peace and respect and tolerance.
    And that's what they wanted to make the point to me, that we are--that's
    the way we are.
        Interesting, their elections came up. This is the first direct
    Presidential election. It's going to be interesting--an interesting
    exercise in democracy. And they wanted to talk about that. And as you
    know--maybe you don't know--our USAID money is helping with the
    elections. They were appreciative of that. The education money came up.
    They wanted to make sure that this wasn't America's education system. I
    said, ``It's not. It's money available for the Indonesian Government to
    help basic education develop.'' So those were a couple of misconceptions
    that it was important for me to help alter.

    Democratic Candidates and Foreign Policy

        Q. Can I ask a question--I know that you say campaigning--there will
    be time enough for campaigning. In just months, Democrats, at least,
    will be fighting in some very highly contested--what do you say to those
    who are criticizing your policy? Where does the line end where they've
    got to be very careful to not undermine American foreign policy?
        The President. I don't know. You know, I'm not paying that much
    attention to it. Maybe you are. I'm not. You know, one of these days,
    they'll have a candidate, and then it will all sort out, kind of come in

    [[Page 1376]]

    focus. Primarily--I don't know what they're saying, so it's hard for me
    to answer that.
        Q. Democrats who are criticizing your policy now, some of them
    fairly severely, about the war, does that hurt when you go to meet with
    these foreign leaders? Does that have any resonance?
        The President. You know, I can't--I don't know, because they have
    never brought it up. Nobody has ever said, ``Your foreign policy is
    being challenged in Democrat primaries, and therefore you're less
    credible.'' I mean, it really hasn't come up. I think most people who
    understand America know that the field will eventually be whittled down
    to one opponent, and then we'll campaign.

    Decisionmaking and Leadership

        Q. You seem, on these trips in particular, to bond with some of
    these leaders who have taken on very difficult problems at home, sort of
    stuck their neck out, whether it's President Arroyo or--you had some of
    those comments about the King of Jordan when he came. And I was just
    wondering, do you relate to that at all, particularly in having to take
    on the war on terrorism and kind of not, as you say, wanting to be too
    comfortable and pretend that it's over?
        The President. You know, that's an interesting question. First of
    all, I like people. And I spend time trying to--I think about the other
    person and how the other person might think and relate to the other
    person's problems. I do have good relations with these leaders on an
    individual basis, for a variety of reasons. I mean, Gloria
    Arroyo, who is taking a tough stand
    against Abu Sayyaf, there is a common bond there because she has made
    some tough decisions. But these leaders--for example, Aznar of Spain or Blair of Britain,
    these guys stood up, stood strong and were--did what they thought was
    right. That's my approach.
        I remember when we had the discussion down in Crawford, one of
    reporters, fellow reporters, said, ``I hear you don't pay attention to
    the press.'' I said, ``Not really.'' And he said, ``Why?'' And I said,
    ``Well, because sometimes your opinion matters to me and sometimes it
    doesn't, but I've got a job, and I'm willing to lead.'' And the fellow
    said, ``Well, how do you know what the people think?'' And I said,
    ``Well''--I reminded the fellow that people don't make up their mind
    based upon what they write, and secondly, my job is to lead. My job is
    to do what I think is the right thing and lead.
        And I think those world leaders appreciate that, and I appreciate
    that when I see that they make those tough decisions. There is a common
    bond that's established when you're in the decisionmaking process and
    you're not trying to chase popular will, which is fickle and moves
    around. You stay focused on the objectives you set for a country. That's
    a very good question. It may be an area where we do establish in common.
        And I've reminded them at times that, just do what you think is
    right, stand your ground in the face of public criticism, and the
    people--when things turn out the way--for the good, people will judge
    you correctly.
        Dana [Dana Bash, Cable News Network], how are you?
        Q. I'm well, thank you.
        The President. Are you surviving this trip?
        Q. I wish we just got a little more time in Bali.
        The President. Yes, that and Hawaii. Look, I've heard all the
    people----
        Q. She spent her honeymoon in Bali.
        The President. You'll be thankful when we get back. You'll be
    grumpy--very grumpy, starting tomorrow, when we get airborne. But you'll
    be thankful when we all land home.

    Reform of the Palestinian Authority

        Q. Mr. President, I was wondering, the last time we sat around this
    table was coming from Aqaba.

    [[Page 1377]]

        The President. Middle East, that's right.
        Q. And you were talking about how positive you felt about Prime
    Minister Abbas and the fact that you thought that things would be able
    to move forward.
        The President. And they did move forward, for a while.
        Q. I wonder if you could reflect on how you felt since--during the
    fact that the man you put confidence in and hope in is gone.
        The President. I was disappointed that Arafat shoved him out
    of the way. I just--it was an unfortunate decision, because it stopped
    good progress toward a Palestinian state. And when the Palestinian
    Authority comes up with a leader who is willing to genuinely fight and
    dismantle terrorist organizations, the process will pick up where it
    left off and move forward.
        Q. Are you confident of that?
        The President. I hope it does. I think eventually it will. You've
    got to be patient in foreign policy sometimes.
        Q. Is there anything more the United States can do on that, or is
    the roadmap--once they get on track on the roadmap, then things will
    come back and move forward again?
        The President. The roadmap is still there. And we just need
    leadership willing to stand up and say, ``We're going to prevent the few
    from letting the process move forward.'' And that's what they're doing.
    There are a few people there that don't want a Palestinian state.
    They've got different ambitions. And we've just got to fight them off.
        Q. Do you think the public support of the U.S. for Abbas sort of got
    Arafat to dig in his heels?
        The President. I don't know. I really don't. I can't speculate as to
    why the decision was made. This was an unfortunate decision, because it
    delayed the development of a Palestinian state.

    Prime Minister Mahathir's Remarks at
    the Organization of the Islamic Conference Summit

        Q. What did you tell Prime Minister Mahathir? Apparently he's saying
    you didn't fuss at him.
        The President. No, I walked up and said, the--I said, ``I want to
    inform you that you're going to read the newspapers''--Condi had briefed the press about me saying that the
    comments were reprehensible. I said, ``You're going to see--I'm here to
    inform you that you're going to see that I thought your comments were
    reprehensible.'' I said, ``They're divisive and unnecessary.'' I didn't
    yell at him. I just told him--confirmed exactly what was in the
    newspaper.
        Q. How did he respond?
        Q. Yes, what did he say?
        The President. ``I was misquoted'' or something. I can't remember
    exactly what he said, but I just had--that was it. You know the way I
    felt.
        Q. He said he was misquoted?
        The President. Well, he said he was----
        Q. Taken out of context?
        The President. Yes, context, whatever he said to you all.
        Press Secretary Scott McClellan. He said
    that in the paper.
        The President. Not misquoted. It's hard to misquote what he said.
        Q. The issue were his comments. Obviously he's on his way out, but
    the response, apparently, at the Islamic conference, was a round of
    applause. What do you make of that?
        The President. It's just unfortunate, again. I mean, it's one of
    these situations where in order to achieve peace and freedom, you can't
    pit groups against each other. And there's a tendency to blame Jewish
    people. And that's not the policy--that's not how I think, and that's
    not the policy of the United States Government. I wasn't there, so I
    don't--pitting groups against each other will never achieve a

    [[Page 1378]]

    common objective. It does quite the opposite. He knew how I felt.
    There's no question about that. I don't know, what did he say?
        Q. [Inaudible]--he was asking Muslims to have more understanding, at
    one part----
        The President. Evidently, in his speech, he said that we need more
    education, a terrorist ban, which is good. That was positive.

    Madrid Donors' Conference

        Q. I know you hate two questions, but I can just--just two quick
    ones. You talked about your meeting with Hu, and that was positive. Is
    there anything that he offered to you that he can--any pressure he can
    apply on North Korea? And the second one is a brief one. Are you happy
    with the progress or the contributions with the Madrid donors'
    conference coming up?
        The President. Donors' conference? Yes. I think we're making good
    progress. And the question on Hu was?

    North Korea

        Q. Is there anything that he can--any pressure that he can apply on
    North Korea? Did he say he would be able to do anything or----
        The President. He is a--China is a major
    presence in the neighborhood. And the fact that they're willing to take
    the same message to the North Koreans that the United States is taking
    to the North Koreans, along with three other nations, is a powerful
    statement to Kim Chong-il that it's in his
    national interest that he abandon his nuclear weapons ambitions and
    that--he has been saying--as I said in the press conference, I think--
    one of your questions--he's been saying, ``I want a security
    guarantee.'' And what we have now said is that in return for dismantling
    the programs, we're all willing to sign some kind of document, not a
    treaty but a piece of paper that says we won't attack you. We'll see
    what happens.
        Q. How does that--a lot of people were saying we can't make it look
    like we're giving in to blackmail from North Korea.
        The President. What's changed is we've now got five countries
    involved. And the neighborhood is now speaking. What happened before was
    the bilateral relations with the United States. And now he's got his big neighbor to the--right on his border, he's got
    a neighbor to the south, he's got Japan, he's got another neighbor,
    Russia, all saying the same thing. It's a different dynamic, is what
    I'm--that's where the policy has changed.
        Q. This security guarantee, what should it say?
        The President. That's what we'll determine. We haven't worked out
    the words, but the point is, is that North Korea must hear that in
    return for the dismantling of their program--in a verifiable way, by the
    way; I mean, we're going to want to know--that now five nations are
    willing to say something about his security.
        Q. Everybody is behind that?
        The President. Yes.

    Iran

        Q. Can I ask you one on Iran?
        The President. On Iran? Yes.
        Q. It seems like last night there was some maybe cautious optimism
    that this is a good first step. If they comply with the three criteria
    that you've laid out, would they be then allowed to have a civilian
    nuclear energy program, or would that----
        The President. Well, it depends on--first things first, and that is,
    let us have, in a verifiable way, their agreement that was made with the
    IAEA. The IAEA must be allowed in, and we'll discuss it then. Our
    relations with Iran--that will help relations with Iran, obviously, if
    they do abandon a nuclear weapons program. It will also help if they--we
    end up doing a--reaching an agreement on the Al Qaida that they hold.
        Q. What are the cross-strings there?

    [[Page 1379]]

        The President. You've got to have patience in foreign policy.
        Q. Are you at all suspicious of the European motives?
        The President. Am I suspicious? No, not in this case. No, I'm not. I
    believe, in this case, they generally are concerned about Iran
    developing a nuclear weapon. They understand the consequences. I
    appreciate it very much. We spent a lot of time talking to the
    European--our European counterparts, who are influential, more so than
    we are, in Iran. You know, we've got a sanctions policy with Iran; they
    don't. And there's influence. This is an effective approach. I've been
    saying all along that not every policy issue needs to be dealt with by
    force. There are ways to achieve common objectives, and this is a common
    objective.
        And the European Union--and we're speaking directly to Silvio
    Berlusconi about it, who is the head of
    the EU. We've also obviously spoke to the three--the leaders of the
    countries who went into Iran. And they made a decision collectively in
    Europe that it's not in their interest or the world interest that Iran
    have a nuclear weapon. And we came to that conclusion, they've come to
    that conclusion, and working together is an effective way. It's the same
    approach--kind of approach we're taking in North Korea as well, a
    collective voice trying to convince a leader to change behavior.

    Legislative Agenda

        Q. [Inaudible]--Republicans in Congress didn't follow your wishes on
    the phone----
        The President. I thought they did in the House. There's two bodies.

    North Korea

        Q. Do you regret saying that you loathe Kim Chong-il? Some people
    think that it helped them sort of--it made them sort of harden their
    position----
        The President. Any leader who starves his--made him do what?
        Q. It just made him----
        The President. Made Kim Chong-il--surely it didn't make Kim Chong-
    il renege on the last agreement, did it? Because
    I wasn't there, you know what I'm saying?
        Q. Right, but they've been much more vocal about their nuclear
    ambitions.
        The President. No, they've been--remember, they lobbed a rocket
    over----
        Q. Japan.
        The President. Remember the rocket over Japan? Keep it in
    perspective. Anybody who starves his people is--I just can't respect
    anybody that would really let his people starve and shrink in size as a
    result of malnutrition. It's a sad, sad situation for the North Korean
    people. That's one people--I've assured the--our partners in this effort
    that we deeply care about the plight of the North Korean people. It's
    just unconscionable that that many people are starving in the 21st
    century. We provide--we're a generous nation. We provided food. We're
    not so sure the food is getting to the people, is one of the issues that
    we face. I feel strongly about failed leadership dashing the hopes of
    the people, in this case creating incredible starvation.
        Q. Thank you.
        The President. You're welcome.

    Note: The interview was taped at 3:10 p.m. aboard Air Force One en route
    to Canberra, Australia. In his remarks, the President referred to
    President Hu Jintao of China; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea;
    Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi of Japan; President Roh Moo-hyun of
    South Korea; President Vladimir Putin of Russia; President Megawati
    Sukarnoputri of Indonesia; President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo of the
    Philippines; Prime Minister John Howard of Australia; former Prime
    Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) and Chairman Yasser Arafat of the
    Palestinian Authority; former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Lt. Gen.
    William G. Boykin, USA, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for
    Intelligence; President Jose Maria Aznar of Spain; Prime Minister

    [[Page 1380]]

    Tony Blair of the United Kingdom; Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohammed
    of Malaysia; and Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy. A reporter
    referred to King Abdullah II of Jordan. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.