    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
    [November 12, 2003]
    [Pages 1550-1558]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    [[Page 1550]]

    Interview With Sir David Frost of BBC Television
    November 12, 2003

    President's Upcoming Visit to the United Kingdom

        Mr. Frost. Mr. President, a lot of people say this might be your
    first trip to London, but it's not.
        The President. No, it's not. I've been there a couple of times. I
    remember, Laura and I went to see ``Cats'' in
    London. Gosh, I remember going to some nice pubs when I was a drinking
    man in London. It's a great city, and I'm looking forward to going.
        Mr. Frost. We're looking forward to seeing you there, too. In fact,
    of course, you're famous for the fact that normally social--dressing up
    socially is not your favorite thing, and you once said that marvelous
    quote, ``Read my lips: No new tuxes.''
        The President. That's right. [Laughter]
        Mr. Frost. Are you going to take a new tux this time?
        The President. I'm going to take a tux, and I'm going to take tails.
    And don't tell anybody, but I had to rent them. [Laughter] I'm sure you
    won't tell anybody.
        Mr. Frost. This is entirely between us.
        The President. I'm looking forward to--it's a huge honor to be
    invited by Her Majesty to stay in
    Buckingham Palace. It's hard to imagine me even considering staying in
    Buckingham Palace when I was living in Midland, Texas. It's just one of
    those things. And Buckingham Palace has got a tremendous mystique to it,
    and so Laura and I are really looking forward to
    coming.

    President's Agenda in the United Kingdom

        Mr. Frost. And you pinch yourself about those things too. What would
    you like to see come out of this trip in terms of--in addition to the
    fun part?
        The President. Well, I've got some business to do with Tony
    Blair. We've got a lot of things to discuss.
    We're going to talk about how to continue to spread freedom and peace.
    We'll talk about how to work the compassion agenda on the AIDS
    Initiative, for example. We're going to spend some time talking about
    that.
        I value his advice, and I--every time I visit with him, whether it
    be on the phone or on video or in person, I come away with a--some
    interesting ideas about how to advance a positive agenda.
        Secondly, I look forward to speaking to the people of your great
    country. I'm going to have a chance to give a speech to talk about the
    importance of our relationship, the unique relationship between America
    and Great Britain. And I'll have a chance to answer some questions, I'm
    sure, from what we call the Fourth Estate here, the mighty media. I look
    forward to it.

    Protests/War on Terror

        Mr. Frost. And Tony Blair on Monday night--and he would probably
    have told you--is expecting there to be quite a lot of protesters about
    the war. What would be your message to those protesters?
        The President. Well, freedom is a beautiful thing, I would first
    say, and aren't you lucky to be in a country that encourages people to
    speak their mind. And I value going to a country where people are free
    to say anything they want to say. Secondly, I would say that I
    understand you don't like war, and neither do I. But I would hope you
    understand that I have learned the lessons of September the 11th, 2001,
    and that terrorists declared war on the United States of America and war
    on people that love freedom, and I intend to lead our Nation, along with
    others like our close friends in Great Britain, to win this war on
    terror, that war is my last choice, not my first choice, but I have an
    obligation as the President to keep our country secure.

    [[Page 1551]]

    Blair-Bush Relationship

        Mr. Frost. And at the same time, you'll be working with Tony Blair,
    and what is the key to your working together so well? I mean, it's like
    you have a special relationship. Is partially the bond, the bond that
    you're both men of strong faith?
        The President. I think so. Tony is a man of strong faith. You know,
    the key to my relationship with Tony is he tells the truth, and he tells
    you what he thinks, and when he says he's going to do something, he's
    going to do it. I trust him, therefore. I've seen him, under some
    tough--tough circumstances, stand strong, and I appreciate that in a
    person.
        The other thing I admire about Tony Blair is that he's got a vision
    beyond the current. In other words, he can see a world that is peaceful,
    and he agrees with me that the spread of democracy and freedom in parts
    of the world where there's violence and hatred will help change the
    world, that there are reformers in the Middle East that long for
    democracy, that long to live in a free world. And Tony Blair, like me,
    agrees--kind of rejects the elitist point of view that only a certain
    type of person can adapt the habits of freedom and democracy. And he
    knows that freedom in the Middle East will help change that world in
    dramatic fashion. So it's an historic moment which he has been willing
    to seize, and I'm honored to be working with him to seize the moment.

    Public Opinion/Lessons of September 11

        Mr. Frost. And in terms of as you look at the world, Mr. President,
    at the moment and you see the protesters in Australia or wherever they
    are and you see that poll that came out, an EU poll the other day that
    shows that the United States was second among the most dangerous
    countries in terms of war in the world--level, for God's sake, with
    North Korea and Iran--when you see things like that, do you think the
    world is out of step with America, or America is out of step with the
    world?
        The President. Well, first of all, you've got to know, I don't pay
    attention to the polls. I just don't. I've got a job to do for the
    American people. It's a job that was changed on September the 11th,
    2001, and I refuse to--I refuse to forget--I'll never forget the
    lessons, is a better way to put it, of what happened to this country.
    And there are terrorists who are willing to kill innocent life in order
    to create fear and chaos. There are terrorists who want the free world
    to retreat from duties so that they can impose Taliban-type governments
    and enslave people. There are people like Saddam Hussein, who tortured and maimed and killed and, at the same
    time, threatened and created the conditions of instability. And I know
    some people don't understand the need to deal with that, but I feel
    firmly we must deal with those issues.
        Mr. Frost. But do you need to woo people more in the rest of the
    world?
        The President. We wooed--we did a pretty good job of wooing them at
    the United Nations. After all, remember, 1441 was a unanimous vote that
    said, after a decade of sending messages to Mr. Saddam Hussein for him to disarm, 1441 said, ``Disarm or there will
    be serious consequences.'' And that was a unanimous vote. In other
    words, the world, at least the Security Council, came together and sent
    a clear signal. Obviously, there was a disagreement about the definition
    of ``serious consequence.'' But I can assure you, ``serious
    consequence'' isn't more resolutions or more debate. ``Serious
    consequence'' was with dealing with Mr. Saddam Hussein today, before it
    became too late.
        And I understand people don't agree with that position. But
    nevertheless, I'm convinced that the decisions we made--and there's a
    lot of countries that made that decision with us--that decision will
    make the world more peaceful and more free. That decision is in the
    long-term interests of people who love freedom.

    [[Page 1552]]

    France and Germany

        Mr. Frost. And will you ever be able to forgive Jacques Chirac and
    Chancellor Schroeder for their actions of that time in undermining the
    second resolution?
        The President. Of course. It's like, I can understand why people
    express their disagreement with the policy. I understand not everybody
    is going to agree with every decision that I make or others make. But
    I've had meetings with Gerhard Schroeder
    and Jacques Chirac since then. They've been
    very cordial meetings. Gerhard Schroeder has now committed German troops
    to Afghanistan, which is a very important mission, to help stabilize
    that good country as it not only enacts a constitution but heads toward
    elections. And I appreciate the contribution of the German Government
    toward Afghanistan. I'm proud to say that it is a vital contribution,
    and I appreciate their willingness to work with us.
        Again, we're not going to agree on every issue, but a Europe which
    works closely with America and an America which works closely with
    Europe means the world will be better off.

    EU-U.S. Relations

        Mr. Frost. The difference really is, between Tony Blair and them, is
    that Tony Blair sees Europe as a partner of the United States, and they
    perhaps see Europe as a rival of the United States.
        The President. I don't think Germany sees that, for starters. In my
    conversations with Gerhard Schroeder, they
    never yielded that impression. I think Germany understands it's
    important for the bilateral relationship between America and Germany to
    be strong. It's in our economic interests that it's strong. It's in the
    interest of peace that it be strong.
        I understand there was kind of this notion of multipolarity, which
    means that somehow the values of America need to be offset. But we're
    for peace; we're for freedom. This country is leading the world when it
    comes to fighting AIDS. And I can assure you, having studied this issue
    a lot, and I understand the pandemic of AIDS on the continent of Africa,
    we'll be better off--the people of Africa will be better off if Europe
    and the United States work together to fight the pandemic of AIDS. My
    only point is, there's a lot we can do working together.

    European Defense Force

        Mr. Frost. And what about the--I gather that you have some
    misgivings about the proposed European army, the danger that it might be
    a threat to NATO.
        The President. Yes, here's the thing, first of all, I believe that
    the European defense force ought to take on more responsibility on those
    missions which NATO turns down. I think it's good for the United States'
    interests. I think it's good for NATO's interests, so long as the
    defense force doesn't undermine the vitality of NATO. And Tony
    Blair tells me that the discussions he's having
    with other European countries will in no way undermine NATO, and I take
    his word for it. He's been a man who's been true to his word on a lot of
    issues, and I believe he'll be true to his word on this issue.

    Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction

        Mr. Frost. Tell me about--in terms of Iraq, tell me about weapons of
    mass destruction. The fact that we didn't find them, and so on, has been
    much discussed. But do you think that you were the victim of a failure
    of intelligence in a way?
        The President. Not at all.
        Mr. Frost. No?
        The President. No, not at all. I think our intelligence was sound. I
    know the British intelligence was sound. It's the same intelligence that
    caused the United Nations to pass resolution after resolution after
    resolution. It's the same intelligence that was used by my predecessor
    to bomb Iraq. I'm very confident we got good intelligence. And not only
    that, Mr. David Kay, who

    [[Page 1553]]

    went over to kind of lead the effort to find the weapons or the intent
    of weapons, came back with a report that clearly stated that Mr. Saddam
    Hussein would--had been in material breach of
    Resolution 1441. In other words, had the inspectors found what Kay
    found, they would have reported back to the United Nations that he was
    in breach, that he was in violation of exactly what the United Nations
    expected him not to do.
        We'll find the truth. But this guy for many years had been hiding
    weapons, deceiving weapons. He had dual-use programs that could have
    been sped up. Nobody could say that Saddam Hussein wasn't a danger. Not only was he a danger to the free
    world--and that's what the world said; the world said it consistently--
    he was a danger to his own people as well. Remember, we discovered mass
    graves with hundreds of thousands of men and women and children
    clutching their little toys, as a result of this person's brutality.
        Go ahead. Sorry.
        Mr. Frost. But in terms of--did you feel, in terms of if there
    wasn't a failure of intelligence, that there was a sort of exaggeration
    in what was predicted? I mean, did you ever believe that stuff, for
    instance? Did you ever believe that stuff about him having weapons of
    mass destruction that could be unleashed in 45 minutes, or did you never
    really believe that?
        The President. I believe he was a
    dangerous man.
        Mr. Frost. But you didn't believe that.
        The President. Well, I believed a lot of things. But I know he was a
    dangerous man. And I know that for the sake of security, he needed to be
    dealt with. After all--again I repeat this because it's a very important
    point that people in your country must remember, and that is, the world
    had spoken, universally spoken, about this man's danger for 12 long
    years. And in order for--at the very minimum, in order for a
    multinational organization to be valid and effective, something has to
    happen other than resolutions. And when an organization says, ``If you
    don't disarm''--in other words, in order to say, ``They don't disarm,''
    intelligence convinced a lot of nations, including France, that he had
    weapons. In other words, he had to disarm something. ``Dismantle your
    programs. If you don't do that, there will be a serious consequence.''
        And the fundamental question is, what is a ``serious consequence''?
    It's not another resolution. It's not more empty debate. A ``serious
    consequence,'' in this case, was removing Saddam Hussein so that his weapons programs would not be activated.
    And David Kay found evidence of weapons programs.
    He found some biological weapons--evidence of biological weapons. And it
    doesn't take much time----
        Mr. Frost. But we really need the big discovery, don't we?
        The President. Well, that's pretty big, what I just told you. Now
    remember, for a long period of time, it was assumed that he didn't have a nuclear weapons program. And yet, after
    1991, the world had to--changed its attitude about this man's nuclear
    weapons program and admitted that it was very advanced. A nuclear weapon
    in the hands of somebody like Saddam Hussein, particularly given the
    lessons of September the 11th, 2001, would be a horrendous development.
    And we had to deal with him. And we did--in a way, by the way, that was
    a compassionate way. We spared innocent life. We targeted the guilty,
    and we moved hard and fast. And very little of Iraq was touched in
    toppling Saddam Hussein.

    Planning for Iraq After Combat Operations

        Mr. Frost. Did we, in fact--people have said, Mr. President, as you
    know, that the same meticulous planning that went into winning the war
    didn't go into winning the peace, and we were a bit unprepared for some
    of the surprises, the unpleasant surprises, you know, the terrorists and
    all of that that came along. Is that a fair comment?

    [[Page 1554]]

        The President. No--[laughter]--it's not a fair comment. We look at
    all contingencies and are dealing with the contingencies. Look, let me--
    if I could step back and maybe think out loud here about some of the
    stories or some of the speculation that was going on before we went into
    Iraq: One, the oil revenues would be blown up; the oil fields would be
    destroyed. They weren't. As a matter of fact, oil production is up to
    2.1 million or 2.2 million barrels a day, to the benefit of the Iraqi
    people. That's a very important point.
        Remember, there was speculation about sectarian violence, that the
    long-suppressed Kurds or Shi'a may take out their anxieties and their
    frustrations on the Sunnis. That didn't happen. There was talk about
    mass starvation; it didn't happen. Refugee flows that would be
    unmanageable--that never happened. And so a lot of the contingency that
    we had planned for didn't happen. What has happened is that in a
    relatively small part of the country, there are Ba'athist----
        Mr. Frost. You call it now the Ba'athist Triangle.
        The President. ----Sunni Triangle, they are attacking. And they're
    attacking not only coalition forces; they're attacking innocent Iraqis,
    because what they're trying to do is stop the spread of progress.
        Mr. Frost. It's almost a guerrilla war there, really.
        The President. Well, I would call it a desperate attempt by people
    who were totally in control of government, through tyrannical means, to
    regain power. This is nothing more than a power grab.
        Now, there are some foreign fighters, mujahideen types or Al Qaida
    or Al Qaida affiliates involved as well. They've got a different
    mission. They want to install a Taliban-type Government in Iraq, or they
    want to seek revenge for getting whipped in Afghanistan. But
    nevertheless, they all have now found common ground for a brief period
    of time. And what we will do is, we will use Iraqi intelligence; we will
    use Iraqi security forces--we're up to about 118,000 Iraqi folks in one
    type of uniform or another securing the country--to be a integral part
    of chasing these killers down and to bring them to justice before they
    kill innocent life.
        Mr. Frost. But it must have taken us a bit by surprise, or otherwise
    we'd have prepared for it, the level of this--the combination of the,
    what, 700, perhaps, foreign terrorists who came into Iraq, and so on.
    That was----
        The President. I don't think so. I think a lot the people who came
    in initially wish they hadn't come in initially, or they're not wishing
    at all right now. But no, we understood it was going to be tough. We've
    been there for 7 months, David, which seems like a long time,
    particularly giving the news cycles the way they are. I'm certainly not
    complaining about the news cycles, but nevertheless, there's a certain
    sense of impatience that has now crept into the world. And my job is to
    enable our operators and military to make adjustments necessary to
    succeed. We've got the same strategy, which is a peaceful Iraq. The
    tactics shift, depending upon the decisions of the enemy. We're making
    progress.
        That's not to say it's not tough. Of course, it's tough. What they
    want to do is, they want to shake the will of the free world. And the
    good news about having a partner like Tony Blair
    is, he won't be shaken. And neither will I, and neither will Jose Maria
    Aznar. I heard Berlusconi stand up with a strong statement after the Italian
    police had been murdered. And we, of course, send our sympathies and
    prayers to the Italian people. But Berlusconi said, ``They're not going
    to run us out.''
        And that's what these terrorists need to hear. And more importantly,
    or as importantly, the Iraqi citizens need to hear that. They need to
    know that we won't leave the country prematurely. They need to know two
    things: We're not going to cut and run; and two, we believe they have
    the capacity to run their own country.

    [[Page 1555]]

    Timetable for Iraq

        Mr. Frost. The cut-and-run thing, obviously, is absolutely vital.
    And you've said you're not going to cut and run. You'll be there as long
    as it takes. Tony Blair, in his speech on Monday night, said, ``We're
    not going to retreat one inch.'' I mean, we're there for how long it
    takes to produce a successful Iraqi democracy, are we?
        The President. Yes, absolutely.
        Mr. Frost. Whether that's years and years or what?
        The President. Well, we don't think it will be years and years,
    because, first of all, we think the Iraqi people are plenty capable of
    running their own country, and we think they want to run their own
    country. And just today I had discussions with Jerry Bremer, our Ambassador in Baghdad, who flew back
    to discuss ways----
        Mr. Frost. Oh, yes----
        The President. Well, just to discuss ways to do--to assure the Iraqi
    people that we have confidence in their capability. See, some in the
    world, some in the world don't believe that Iraq can run itself. They
    believe that, ``Might as well let them have a military dictatorship or a
    tyrant. That's the only way they can be governed.''
        I disagree, and Tony Blair disagrees with
    that. We believe that democracy will take hold in Iraq, and we believe a
    free and democratic Iraq will help change the Middle East. There are
    hundreds of reformers that are desperate for freedom. Freedom--freedom
    is not America's gift to the world or Great Britain's gift to the world.
    Freedom is the Almighty's gift to everybody who lives in the world.

    Role of Saddam Hussein

        Mr. Frost. Is there any likelihood that Saddam himself could be
    behind this violence?
        The President. Saddam Hussein is a violent man. Listen, he tortured
    and maimed and killed. He had rape rooms, and people disappeared because
    they spoke out against him. We've discovered mass graves. He's a brutal,
    brutal tyrant--brutal tyrant. We did the Iraqi people a great favor by
    removing him. So I wouldn't be surprised that any kind of violence is
    promoted by him, but I don't know. I don't know. All I know is, we're
    after him.

    Role of World Opinion in Regime Change

        Mr. Frost. That's one of the interesting things. I mean, nobody has
    time for a moment for Saddam Hussein. Some people are worried in England
    and around the world by the idea of regime change, because they say,
    ``Once we've done regime change, Britain and America with Saddam
    Hussein, what can we say if India wants to do regime change with
    Pakistan, or Pakistan wants to do regime change with India?''
        The President. Well, see, I can understand their concerns, except
    they forgot the history. This issue has been discussed in the United
    Nations for over a decade. And the United Nations, as a multilateral
    international body, passed resolution after resolution after resolution
    calling for Saddam Hussein to disarm. In other words, the diplomatic
    process went forward. There was plenty of diplomacy. And to the critics,
    I would say that there will be diplomacy when it comes to India and
    Pakistan. The world will speak out clearly.
        The problem is, is that when the world speaks out clearly and then
    nothing happens, all we've got is empty words. It's tyrants that take
    advantage of that. Tyrants--if tyrants don't fear--feel like they can
    torture and kill with impunity, feel like they can blackmail the world,
    and all the world does is put out empty words, it makes multilateralism
    extremely ineffective.
        If I could take a second to remind your viewers that, obviously, not
    every situation needs to be solved militarily. Military option is the
    last option, as far as I'm concerned. And I would refer people to North
    Korea, where we've got a multilateral attempt to convince Kim Chong-
    il to get rid

    [[Page 1556]]

    of his nuclear ambitions. We understand, just like Saddam
    Hussein, that he has been torturous to his
    people--people in North Korea are starving to death--and that weapons of
    mass destruction in his hands given his history, just like weapons of
    mass destruction in Saddam's hands given his history, is a very
    dangerous element. It's a dangerous--it inhibits the capacity for peace
    and freedom to spread.
        But what I've done is, I've convinced China and South Korea and
    Japan and Russia to speak with one voice to the North Koreans, and say,
    ``Get rid of your nuclear ambitions.'' We're also, at the same time,
    working on a counterproliferation regime that will stop his ability to
    ship weapons of mass destruction or a nuclear warhead to a terrorist
    group. In other words, we're working together in a multilateral,
    multinational fashion to bring peace and stability to the world.

    War on Terror

        Mr. Frost. Someone who knows how passionate you are about this war
    on terror and Iraq and so on said, ``I know George Bush, and I think, in
    terms of his legacy, he'd rather--I'll tell you how strongly he feels.
    He said he'd rather be defeated by the voters than by the terrorists.''
    Is that true?
        The President. I'd rather not be defeated by either. [Laughter] And
    we will not be defeated by the terrorists. I say that confidently,
    because the allies in the war on terror are strong and steadfast, and
    there's no stronger and steadfast ally in the war on terror than Tony
    Blair. He understands the stakes. He knows that
    freedom is being challenged. He understands as well that the spread of
    freedom and democracy, in the long run, will defeat terror. And that's
    why the battle--the stakes are so high in Iraq right now. By the way,
    Iraq is a front in the war on terror. And it's important for people to
    understand that, because the war takes place elsewhere.

    Reform of the Palestinian Authority

        Mr. Frost. And in--one of the reasons that people say, in the Arab
    world--obviously there was your landmark speech last week--but in the
    Arab world, that you won't really be able to address the balance against
    America until the United States is seen not to tilt towards Israel in
    the Middle East. What do you think about that?
        The President. I think about that: I think it's an excuse, because
    America--I am the first President ever to go to the United Nations----
        Mr. Frost. And say, two----
        The President. Two states side by side in peace.
        Mr. Frost. ----two states.
        The President. No President has ever said that. And I said it, and I
    said it with conviction, because I believe it is in Israel's interest
    that there be a peaceful Palestinian state, and I know it's in the
    Palestinians' interest. However, to achieve a peaceful Palestinian
    state, the emergence of a peaceful Palestinian state, a state where
    people are willing to risk capital, a place where people are willing to
    develop an economy, there must be a focused effort to defeat terror. And
    there hasn't been with the current Palestinian leadership.
        I went in and embraced, in Aqaba, Jordan, Abu Mazen. And the reason I did so, David, is because he
    came to the Oval Office and he said, ``I will join you in the fight
    against terror. We're not going to allow the few to destroy the hopes of
    the many.'' As well, I could sense in his talk, in his feeling, that he
    has--he's got great trust in the Palestinian people. In other words,
    given the chance, the Palestinian people will develop the habits of
    democracy, and out of that will come a great state, a peaceful state.
    And I trusted him, and we were working with him. We were making good
    progress. And I was working with Ariel Sharon.
    I gave a speech on June

    [[Page 1557]]

    24th, 2002, which says, ``All of us have responsibilities, and you,
    Israel, have a responsibility.''

    Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel

        Mr. Frost. Do you think Ariel Sharon could ever emerge as a man of
    peace?
        The President. Yes, I do. I believe he wants peace for his people. I
    truly do. I mean, he's a man who has presided over suiciders, where he
    has to go to the funerals of women and children because some cold-
    blooded killer is trying to destroy the hopes of all the people in the
    region. And it's--yes, I believe so. And I believe he believes in a
    Palestinian state. I've asked him in the Oval Office, I said, ``Listen,
    am I out there by myself on a Palestinian state, or will you support
    it?'' He said he will. But both of us understand, as do a lot of other
    people, that for a state to emerge, there must be a focused effort to
    get after the Hamas killers, for example, who want to destroy the hopes
    of the people that believe in a Palestinian state. And there hasn't been
    that effort.
        Anyway, let me finish my Abu Mazen story, if you don't mind. I embraced the guy, and I
    believe that he is a--I believe he's a partner with whom we can work,
    and he's shoved out. Progress is being made, and he is shoved aside by
    the old guard. And that's unacceptable behavior. It's just unacceptable.

    British Detainees at Guantanamo Bay

        Mr. Frost. Guantanamo. You're going to get asked about, obviously,
    in England, what's going to happen to our British detainees. Tony Blair
    was talking about it in the House of Commons this week and saying,
    hopefully they'd be tried before a proper court or repatriated to be
    tried in the U.K. Will you have any good news for us on that? For him on
    that?
        The President. You mean right here, sitting right here, me and you,
    talking--the good news is, one, they'll be treated fairly, like they
    are. And two, I'm working closely with Tony to
    come up with a solution that he's comfortable with. And I emphasize, a
    solution that he's comfortable with. These prisoners are being treated--
    these were illegal non-combatants picked up off of a battlefield. And
    they're being well-treated, and they will go through a military tribunal
    at some point in time, which is--a military tribunal, which is in
    international accord--or in line with international accords.
        Mr. Frost. As we approach the end of this interview, Mr. President--
    I could carry on for hours, actually, but I know you've got a lot to do,
    more than the rest of us. As we approach the end of this interview, what
    would you say is the most important lesson you've learned in life in the
    Presidency?
        The President. The most important lesson in life in the Presidency
    is to have a clear vision of where you want to lead, and lead. I've got
    a clear vision: It's a world that is more free and therefore more
    peaceful; a world based upon human rights, human dignity, and justice; a
    world that does not discriminate between one group of people or--a
    vision that does not discriminate between one group of people or
    another, because I believe all people have the desire to be free. And
    I'm willing to lead there.
        And the people of this country will make their--you asked about
    politics--they'll make the decision as to whether or not they--I've have
    been honest with them and open with them and whether or not they like my
    leadership style. A lot of it will have to do with the economy, of
    course, whether I get another 4 years. But I think it's important to
    know where you want to lead, and lead.

    Bush Team for a Second Term

        Mr. Frost. Would you hope to present to the country the same team,
    Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell and Condi Rice, for the
    second term?
        The President. It's been a fabulous team, and Cheney for certain. And I haven't--

    [[Page 1558]]

    obviously, I'm not going to talk to my Cabinet ministers until after the
    election. But I'm proud of this team. I put together one of the finest
    teams, one of the finest administrations any President has ever
    assembled. These are good, honest, decent, hard-working, experienced
    people who give me good, unvarnished advice and, when I make a decision,
    say, ``Yes, sir, Mr. President, we'll go execute it.''
        Mr. Frost. Well, thank you for your decision to do this interview.
        The President. Thank you, sir. I enjoyed seeing you.

    Note: The interview was taped at 3:08 p.m. on November 12 in the Map
    Room at the White House for later broadcast on BBC One's ``Breakfast
    With Frost.'' The transcript was released by the Office of the Press
    Secretary on November 17. In his remarks, the President referred to
    Queen Elizabeth II and Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom;
    former President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of
    Germany; President Jacques Chirac of France; former President William J.
    Clinton; David Kay, CIA Special Advisor for Strategy Regarding Iraqi
    Weapons of Mass Destruction Programs; President Jose Maria Aznar of
    Spain; Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy; L. Paul Bremer III,
    Presidential Envoy to Iraq; Chairman Kim Chong-il of North Korea; and
    former Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of the Palestinian
    Authority. Portions of this interview could not be verified because the
    tape was incomplete.