    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2003, Book II)]
    [July 3, 2003]
    [Pages 826-828]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With the South African Broadcasting Corporation
    July 3, 2003

    Liberia

        Simon Marks. Mr. President, thank you very much indeed for talking
    to us here today. Let me start by seeing if we can perhaps make a little
    bit of news.
        Liberia: Many West African leaders have asked you to send U.S.
    peacekeeping troops to join a multinational stabilization force in
    Liberia. Are you going to? If so, how many and for how long?
        The President. We're in the process of determining the course of
    action necessary to see that peace and stability reign in Liberia. And
    some of our military people are

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    meeting with ECOWAS leaders today. And I haven't made a decision yet.
        Mr. Marks. Are you closing in on a decision?
        The President. Yes. Every day that goes by is closer to a decision.
    But I need--before I make decisions, I like to have facts, and I'm
    gathering the facts necessary to determine what is necessary, who's
    willing to participate.
        The one thing that must happen is, Charles Taylor has got to leave. A condition for any kind of
    operation that stabilizes the country is for Mr. Taylor to leave the
    country, and hopefully, we can achieve that objective diplomatically.
    Colin Powell is working closely with Kofi
    Annan and others at the United Nations to prepare
    the groundwork, if possible, for Mr. Taylor's departure.

    Zimbabwe

        Mr. Marks. Let me switch countries, if I may, and ask you about
    Zimbabwe. A short while ago your Secretary of State, Colin Powell, wrote
    in the New York Times that ``South Africa can and should play a stronger
    and more sustained role in resolving matters in Zimbabwe.''
    Specifically, what would you like to see President Thabo Mbeki do in
    Zimbabwe that he's not already doing?
        The President. Insist that there be elections. Insist that democracy
    rule. Insist that the conditions necessary for that country to become
    prosperous again are in place.
        I agree with the Secretary of State. I
    certainly don't want to put any pressure on my friend, but Zimbabwe has not been a good case study for
    democracy in a very important part of the world. And we hope that not
    only Mr. Mbeki but other leaders convince the current leadership to
    promote democracy.
        Mr. Marks. Do you think quiet diplomacy can work?
        The President. I hope any kind of diplomacy can work. So far,
    diplomacy hasn't worked. That's part of the problem. You know, it's an
    interesting question. I guess writing an article may not be viewed as
    quiet diplomacy, since it was quite public. But I also have spoken out
    on Zimbabwe. It's a bad example.
        Let me give you one reason why. There's a lot of starving people in
    sub-Sahara Africa; yet, Zimbabwe used to be able to grow more than it
    needed, to help deal with the starvation. We're a nation that is
    interested in helping people that are starving. We're going to spend a
    billion dollars this year on programs to help the hungry. It would be
    really helpful if Zimbabwe's economy was such that they would become a
    breadbasket again, a capacity to grow more food that's needed so that we
    could help--they could help deal with the hunger. And yet, the country
    is in such that, you know, in such a condition that the agricultural
    sector of its economy is in shambles right now.

    HIV/AIDS Initiative/Debt Relief

        Mr. Marks. On HIV, you surprised many in Washington by the vigor
    with which you've embraced the battle to combat HIV/AIDS. Some say you
    could do even more by more enthusiastically embracing debt relief for
    Africa. You favor it enthusiastically for Iraq; why not more
    enthusiastically for Africa?
        The President. Well, let me start with the HIV program. I mean,
    enthusiasm is to the tune of $15 billion--that's pretty darn
    enthusiastic--to deal with the pandemic. And I also have agreed to
    increase the direct developmental aid grants from the United States by
    50 percent. However, we expect countries, whether they be in Africa or
    anywhere else, that are applying for this money to embrace the habits of
    a free country, like transparency, anticorruption, making sure the
    people are educated and receive health care. So we're doing a lot in
    America.
        There is a program in place for debt relief. And I would like to see
    that program implemented in full. I also called for the

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    World Bank to give more grants rather than loans. And so our program
    across the board is compassionate, in my judgment, because we care about
    Africa and we care about the people of Africa.

    Nelson Mandela

        Mr. Marks. And as you head to Africa, you are obviously aware that
    there are a large number of people on the continent who disagree with
    many of your policies, particularly your decision to move into Iraq,
    some of them very prominent personalities. When a statesman like former
    South African President Nelson Mandela says the very personal things
    about you that he has said in the past and continues to say even this
    week, that's got to hurt.
        The President. No. I did the right thing. My job is to make sure
    America is secure. And if some don't like the tactics, that's the nature
    of a free world, where people can express their opinion.
        I admire Nelson Mandela. As a matter of
    fact, my administration was the one that gave him the Medal of Freedom
    because of his courage and bravery. I just happen to disagree with him
    on his view of how best to secure America.
        But you can be rest assured that if I think America is threatened, I
    will act. And you know, I understand criticism. I mean, look, but I'm
    not the kind of person that runs around trying to take a poll to
    determine what to do. If I believe it's necessary for my country, I will
    act.
        I also believe it's necessary, when we see people enslaved, to work
    on behalf of their freedom, because this country believes that freedom
    is the desire of every human heart. And one of the great benefits of our
    action in Iraq is not only going to make America more secure, but it's
    going to make the Iraqi people more free. And you know, these mass
    graves we're finding is just the tip of the iceberg about what these
    poor people had to suffer at the hands of Saddam Hussein. And it's that kind of suffering that troubles me. And
    I believe the use of--proper use of power by America will make the world
    more peaceful, America more secure, and as importantly, people more
    free.
        Mr. Marks. Mr. President, bon voyage.
        The President. Thank you, sir.

    Note: The interview was taped at 1:17 p.m. in the Map Room at the White
    House for later broadcast. In his remarks, the President referred to
    President Charles Taylor of Liberia; Secretary-General Kofi Annan of the
    United Nations; President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa; and former
    President Saddam Hussein of Iraq. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.