[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book II)]
[July 12, 2002]
[Pages 1226-1234]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Polish Journalists
July 12, 2002

    The President. I'm looking forward to our state dinner. It's a 
chance for me to, on a personal level, repay the favor of my friend 
Aleksander for his great hospitality 
to Laura and me when we visited he and Jolanta there in Warsaw. 
Secondly, it's a chance to say to our country and the world how 
important our relations are with Poland. We really think--respect the 
Polish people. We've got great numbers of Polish Americans who still 
love the motherland. And it's going to be a wonderful occasion to build 
on a great relationship, make it even better.
    We will discuss a lot of topics. We'll talk about the war on terror. 
Poland has been a great friend and supporter, member of the coalition on 
the war against terror. We've got troops in the--on ships off the Indian 
Ocean. We've got engineers in Bagram, shared intelligence. 
Aleksander has been a strong friend 
and supporter. I'm confident he'll want to talk about NATO expansion. 
Perhaps I'll leave that for a question.
    But all in all, we've got great relations, and I look forward to 
having a good conversation with a leader I respect. And I respect 
Aleksander Kwasniewski.
    Why don't we start with you, sir.

Democracy in Poland

    Q. Thank you. Mr. President, about your talks with President 
Kwasniewski next week, Poland has been viewed by your administration as 
one of the most successful examples of democratic transformation. 
However, the current Polish Government is taking some steps and adopting 
some laws which would obviously limit independence of media and central 
bank, which are the pillars of democracy. So are you going to raise 
these issues with the President?
    The President. Well, first of all, I've got faith that a democracy 
will work. And I am confident that the Polish Government and the Polish 
people will come up with the right answers to issues relating to any 
law. I will--of course, if he asks my opinion, I will remind him that an 
independent media is a very important part of democracy. It's one of the 
pillars of democracy. I value our media, as an aside, saying that of 
course to pander to the people here that cover me on a daily basis. 
[Laughter]
    But I do value a free and open media, and I think it's an incredibly 
important part. But your opening statement was true. We value the 
progress that Poland has made and the example Poland has set in a 
neighborhood that was a pretty tough neighborhood for awhile. And I was 
most impressed, when I went to Warsaw, to see the spirit of the people 
and the optimism.

[[Page 1227]]

I understand the country is going through tough times, but all countries 
go through tough times.

President's Upcoming Visit to Troy, Michigan

    Q. Mr. President, you're taking Aleksander Kwasniewski--it was your 
decision to go to Troy, Michigan, to meet with Polish Americans.
    The President. Yes, we are.
    Q. What is the reason for that meeting, and if you could tell us, 
what is your message to Polish Americans?
    The President. Well, first of all, the message to Polish Americans 
is, I respect and honor the Polish traditions and Polish heritage. 
Actually, there was a--even in my own State of Texas, there is a 
community or two that Polish Americans have settled in Texas and still 
retains many of the great traditions and heritages.
    It also reminds people that even though they have got a Polish 
heritage and embraced Polish traditions, they're Americans. It's a great 
part of the American experience. We envelop and welcome people from all 
walks of life. That in itself is an important statement to constantly 
make in our country. It reminds people of the strength of the country.
    I've decided to go to Troy, Michigan, because it's going to be a--I 
hope it's a fun trip for Aleksander. 
I mean, I think it's important--I understand what a state dinner is 
like. It's formal. You'll see; it's going to be a grand day. They arrive 
on the South Lawn. The military will be there. There's a lot of pomp and 
circumstance. It's an exciting ceremony; it really is. And then there 
will be the formal dinners and the black tie, and the people will come, 
and the entertainment and the food--it's going to be great.
    But there's more to a good American experience than just a formal 
dinner. I try to wear a tuxedo as little as possible, I want you to 
know. But flying out there to Michigan, the heartland of the country, 
with our friend, is going to be great. And he's going to see a big, enthusiastic crowd. It will 
give him a chance to say some things. And I think that's important to 
provide him a forum, so that he can not only be seen in a tuxedo but be 
seen speaking his mind about whatever issue he wants to talk about to an 
American audience that is made up of people from his homeland that have 
now settled in our country. I think it's going to be a great event. To 
me, it helps complete the state dinner aspect of the trip.

U.S. Economy

    Q. Mr. President, I talked to Mr. Kwasniewski just before yesterday.
    The President. Yes. How is he 
doing?
    Q. Great. He looks good, in good shape.
    The President. Looking forward to a 3-mile run? [Laughter]
    Q. He told me that one of the topics he would like to touch on is 
the recent financial scandals in the U.S., because they are a kind of 
backlash on Central Europe, and the recovery is difficult. And there's 
this feeling outgoing that the U.S. Government is not doing enough to 
change its own rules to really prevent the backlash for a Central 
European----
    The President. Yes, I'll explain to him we are doing things, and I will be glad to lay out 
the initiative I talked about--and have been talking about, by the way, 
since March--February and March and then the speech I gave in New York. 
And of course, our House has acted--the House of Representatives acted, 
and the Senate has acted. And if he looks at what I proposed and what 
the Senate has proposed and what the House proposed, there's not much 
difference. And in other words, the point is that a bill will come out 
that will hold people accountable for accounting error--accounting fraud 
and, as we go forward, hopefully set an example--make it clear to 
people, there will be a consequence if they continue to do that.

[[Page 1228]]

    There are markets--three things affect our markets, I'll explain to 
Aleksander. One of course is 
confidence and the numbers, and we're addressing that. Secondly is the 
war on terror. People are still--you know, realize that America is still 
a target. And the American people know that we're doing everything we 
can to protect the homeland and run down these killers wherever they try 
to hide. And that's all they are, by the way, just nothing but a bunch 
of coldblooded killers. And thirdly, the corporate sector--the profits 
are beginning to improve, but the price-earnings multiples--in other 
words, the price of a share relative to its earnings--was very high, and 
the market is adjusting. So all three of those factors are important.
    And obviously we--that's not the whole picture of our economy, and 
that's what Aleksander has got to 
understand. The market reflects part of it, but our unemployment rate 
is--looks like it's steady. It has stopped rising. As a matter of fact, 
it had a drop, and it's level. Our consumer spending numbers are up. Our 
manufacturing orders are increasing. In other words, the recovery is 
beginning to show some strength. So therefore, what I'm going to ask him 
is to look at the entire picture.
    Finally, we've got good monetary policy and good fiscal policy here 
in Washington, and that in itself is part of long-term recovery. And so 
he'll hear a man who is--recognizes that we're making some progress. 
We've got to do more, but I'm pleased to report to him that I think 
things are going to get better. The foundation for long-term growth has 
been--is in place.

War on Terrorism

    Q. Mr. President, I wanted to ask you a question about the war 
against terrorism. The Europeans seem to less and less support the war 
against terrorism. And I wonder if you could explain to us, why do you 
think it's happening, and if you are ready to go alone on this next 
phase of the war, whatever the phase is?
    The President. No, I don't feel that the support from Europe is 
lessening. As a matter of fact, I've just come from a G-8 meeting in 
Canada where, to a person, they were very supportive of our war on 
terror, because the Europeans recognize that the terrorists could strike 
them just as easy as they could strike us. We've still got great 
intelligence sharing amongst our nations. We've got good police action. 
We have hauled in--``we'' being the coalition--has hauled in--that means 
arrest--2,400, more than 2,400 terrorists. So we're picking them off, 
one by one. This is a different kind of war.
    I use every chance I get, when I speak to the American people, to 
explain why this is different. And so--as opposed to destroying lines of 
tanks or shooting down airplanes, success is measured by--one by one, 
one person at a time. And the European leaders understand that, and 
they've been very supportive. They still--I think we've got about 8,000 
troops in Afghanistan--we do, in the Afghan theater, and there's another 
8,000 troops from other nations there as well. So it's a firm 
commitment.
    I will continue to communicate and consult with our friends and 
allies as to every stage of the war, as the battlefront shifts. By the 
way, the battlefront isn't shifting out of Afghanistan. We're there. 
We'll remain there. We've got a lot of work to do there. There's still 
Al Qaida killers there. And of course we'll need to continue to have 
deliberations with our friends and allies, and we'll have them for 
future theaters and different operations. We talk to them all the time.

Poland's Purchase of New Fighter Jets

    Q. Speaking of war, Mr. President, Poland is going to buy new 
fighter planes----
    The President. Yes, I understand that's the case.
    Q. Yes. And the F-16s are one of the----

[[Page 1229]]

    The President. I've got a suggestion for them. [Laughter]
    Q. However, President Kwasniewski just 2 days ago--you kind of--was 
kind of complaining that maybe the American offer is not meeting 
enough--expectations. So is----
    The President. He's negotiating in public. [Laughter]
    Q. Is your administration in any way going to support U.S. companies 
to win the standard----
    The President. We will offer a fabulous product----
    Q. Fabulous product.
    The President. ----called the F-16. And we will work with our 
friends to make--you know, to compete on an above-board basis, totally 
above-board. And you know, we hope the Polish Government picks quality. 
If they do, they will, of course, come our way. But that's up to the 
Government. Aleksander will be and 
the Government of Poland will--you know, we will respect the process and 
respect the country and appreciate it's a tough decision and hope they 
make the right decision as far as we're concerned. But that----

Future Role of NATO

    Q. Mr. President, do you think that the NATO will play as important 
role for the United States in the present century as it played in the 
previous century?
    The President. Yes.
    Q. And do you think it is possible that Russia one day will become 
NATO member?
    The President. Interesting question. First, I do think NATO is very 
important. It's obviously a different role. NATO served as kind of a 
bulwark in defense against Russian tanks storming across the European 
Continent. Those days are over. Russia is no longer the enemy. I 
witnessed the fact that not only have we got good relations with Russia, 
but the very same trip that I--when I went to Moscow to sign this treaty 
that literally redefined our relationship from one of distrust and--like 
it was during the cold war, to a new relationship, shortly thereafter we 
went to Italy and welcomed a new relationship between NATO and Russia. 
So the whole relationship has changed for the better.
    NATO has--and I think it's going to be very hard--very important to 
work that relationship with Russia, to allow for the--the new 
relationship to develop and mature. And I think it will in a very 
positive way.
    The new relationship--the new role of NATO is--really needs to 
adjust to the new realities of the 21st century, and that is how to best 
fight the war on terror. And that means a different configuration of the 
use of our forces and the use of assets. Our forces need to be lighter 
and quicker to strike, and elite units need to be prepared to move at a 
moment's notice.
    The enemy has changed, and the battlefield, the nature of the 
battlefield has changed. And therefore, the NATO mission must remain the 
same, mutual defense. But its tactics must change. And I think NATO is 
very relevant, and we will be an active and engaged partner in NATO.
    Let me just--I'll ask myself, ``Well, Mr. President, do you think we 
ought to expand?'' [Laughter] I gave a very important speech in Warsaw. 
It's interesting--I hope the people in the world that are interested in 
our opinion on subjects noted that the speech was in Warsaw. And the 
speech was about a Europe that's whole, free, and at peace. And I talked 
about the expansion of NATO, and I said that I am interested more rather 
than less. And at the same time, I urged the applicant countries to take 
nothing for granted, to work very hard up until the last minute to show 
those of us in NATO that they'll be willing and active and capable 
partners.
    And I look forward to our meeting in Prague. I fully understand the 
position of the Polish Government. I've had long discussions with 
Aleksander on the subject of NATO 
expansion, and I think people know

[[Page 1230]]

that I'm forward-leaning, depending--if the member countries, you know, 
meet their MAP requirements.

Polish and U.S. Central Banks

    Q. I want to go back to the finances and the limit. There is an 
attempt in Poland to limit independence of central bank, so it would be 
more--be manipulated more by Government, so Government would have more 
influence over central bank. In the current situation, what's your 
feeling about this?
    The President. Well, first of all, I don't know all the facts about 
how the Polish democracy is handling this particular situation. I can 
tell you, however, from my experience, that a central bank should be 
independent. And the independence of our central bank gives Chairman 
Greenspan and the other Governors of the 
Federal Reserve great credibility in our country, to know that decisions 
are being made apart from politics. And our central bank is a part of--
is a very important part of our--has been and will continue to be a very 
important part of the economic vitality of our country. It also gives 
investors who look at our country great confidence to know that the 
monetary supplies be not based upon politics, but the decisions on 
monetary supplies will be based upon the vision of some very wise 
people.
    I think, when people look at how capital moves into countries, the 
independence of a central bank is an important part of attracting 
capital. And Poland needs to attract capital investment. If anybody were 
to ask me my advice on the central bank, that's what I would give.

President's Popularity in Poland/President's Vacation

    Q. I'd like to ask you about different subject. According to the 
latest polls, you are the most popular foreign politician leader in 
Poland.
    The President. Really? I usually say I don't believe in polls, but I 
may have to change my mind. [Laughter]
    Q. With the same approval rate as President Kwasniewski. And I want 
to ask you to comment on this, and----
    The President. Well, how high is it?
    Q. Would you be willing to visit Poland again?
    The President. Seventy-three?
    Q. Why don't you go to Poland?
    The President. Again?
    Q. On holiday.
    The President. Thanks. I don't know what to say. I appreciate that. 
I'm flattered.
    Q. Are you willing to spend a vacation in Poland? With your parents, 
obviously?
    The President. With my parents? I don't know if my mother could 
stand that. But listen, when I vacation, just kind of know about me, I 
like to be with my family, and I like to be in Texas.
    I just recently went to Maine. I'd love to go to Maine, too, to be 
with my mother and dad. But my favorite vacation spot is my own ranch in 
the State I love. And I like to get out and fool around on the land, and 
it doesn't matter how hot it is or how cold it is. How hot it is and 
cold it is matters to those who have to follow me. For me, there is no 
day hot enough or cold enough. [Laughter] These poor souls--Crawford in 
August. That's my idea of vacation.
    Although I must say, I had a great time up with Mother and Dad this weekend, and I 
love to be around them as well. But this August, I'm going to go down to 
Texas and actually work out of Texas. I'm going to travel quite a bit. 
After all, we're getting into the political season here in America. 
We've got our elections in November of 2002.

September 11/War on Terrorism

    Q. Mr. President, we talk a lot about how September 11th changed the 
world, changed America. Has it changed you?
    The President. Changed me?

[[Page 1231]]

    Q. Yes.
    The President. I don't think a single event can change anybody's 
basic values. It obviously changed the fact that I knew that my time as 
the President would be dedicated to winning the war on terror and 
protecting our homeland.
    This is--I keep telling people this--it's just a different type of 
war, because much of the movement of the enemy is invisible to the 
American people and/or to the world. And yet we know they're there. The 
killers on September the 11th had been in our country for a period of 
time. They behaved normally. They looked normal. They, you know, were 
nonthreatening. It was hard to tell that they were part of this 
unbelievably evil plot.
    And it--we're concerned that another group are here or somewhere, 
not only here but in other countries in Europe. And so the task is an 
all-consuming task of protecting our homeland and making sure we do 
everything we can here to find out if anybody is here and who they are 
and disrupt their plans and, at the same time, hunt down their leaders.
    The wars of the past had known battlefields, and it was clear that 
such-and-such had to happen. There had to be an invasion in order to 
achieve this or that. This is a hunt for individuals. We're chasing down 
one person at a time. They were foolishly collected up at one point in 
time in the Shahi-Kot Mountains, and it was a tough chore. But our brave 
soldiers, along with coalition soldiers, were able to go in and score 
great success at bringing them to justice, as I like to put it.
    They're wise to our ways. They realize we're a heck of a lot tougher 
than they thought. They assumed America was a weak country, that we 
didn't really believe anything. And they're finding out that's not the 
way we think. And so I realized after 9/11, after I got over the grief, 
along with everybody else in our country, that this was a long, very 
important struggle.
    And the struggle goes beyond just fighting an Al Qaida-type network. 
I have deep concerns about the development and deployment of weapons of 
mass destruction, and so should you, so should anybody who loves 
freedom, because there are nations in the world developing these weapons 
who hate freedom, leaders hate freedom. And what we cannot allow happen 
is these nations to develop these weapons and then blackmail us and/or 
use them.
    We will have--a judgment will have missed history's call to freedom. 
And so I realize that this war is going to consume a lot of my time. On 
the other hand, these members of the press know that I am optimistic 
person who truly believes that we can achieve some positive things out 
of the evil done to the country and to the world.
    So when I talk to our friends, like Aleksander and others, I remind them of this call. We're 
leaders in a significant moment in history, and we can't blink, and we 
can't--we must be determined and focused to achieve this important 
objective, which is peace for our children, is what we're really 
fighting for, civilization.
    Yes, ma'am.

Free Trade

    Q. Mr. President, you always said that you are supporter of removing 
the trade barriers.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. Why do you think there are so many of them still exist?
    The President. Well, you know, because I think the temptation is to 
be protectionist. And it's easier to mollify constituencies with 
protectionist rhetoric. Poland suffers from protectionist policies in 
parts of Europe, as you know. I'm a strong believer in free trade. I 
want the Congress to give me what's called trade promotion authority. I 
will exercise that diligently to open up markets.
    On the other hand, I have an obligation to enforce law. And so I 
recently said that the--I listened to an International Trade

[[Page 1232]]

Commission ruling on steel. The ITC ruled that excessive steel imports 
were affecting our industry in a negative way. I put a temporary measure 
in place, which exempted, by the way, Poland. And that was a chance for 
the steel industry, our own steel industry, to get on its feet. But 
nevertheless, as I reminded members of the European Union, this only 
represents a very small portion of the $2 trillion of trade we have each 
year.
    But protectionism, for some, is a viable economic remedy. And in my 
judgment, protectionism would be bad for the world and bad for our 
country.
    We're opening up--we sent our man to Doha to commit to the next 
round of the World Trade Organization. And unlike Seattle, where it all 
fell apart, we were able to--``we'' being those of us in the world who 
support free trade--were able to move the process farther down the line. 
And I will continue to work for free trade. It's in our Nation's 
interests and the world's interests that we trade. It's in the 
developing world's interest that there be trade. And our country is--
we've got what's called AGOA, agreement with the African countries. I'm 
working on a free trade agreement with Central Americans. I'd like to 
see a free trade agreement from Canada all the way down to Argentina.
    As I say, there's protectionist tendencies that occasionally rise 
up. We've just got to convince our respective people that trade is in 
their interests.

 Russia-U.S. Relations

    Q. There is another President you have such a good relationship; 
it's President Putin.
    The President. Yes.
    Q. Very good working relationship, on terrorism, on oil. But there 
is this feeling also this is in cost of some human rights, human rights 
in Chechnya, press freedom in Russia--it's overlooked now--and probably 
some freedom of some other Russian republics. Don't you worry that this 
close relationship is putting your--raising other problems?
    The President. No, a close relationship with Putin allows me to make the case that, on media freedom, 
for example--as a matter of fact, on my last trip there, I urged him to 
interface with media entrepreneurs from America to understand how free 
press actually works, something that they're not very used to in Russia. 
And so there have been dialog interchanges now with some of our media 
executives. And I do push Vladimir Putin on the need to have open media 
and open his media.
    And secondly, in terms of Chechnya, I'm constantly talking to 
Vladimir Putin about relations with Chechnya 
and understanding and supporting minority rights. The other issue that 
is very important, to which we do not turn a blind eye, and which I'm 
deeply concerned, not only about minority rights, is proliferation, 
matters of proliferation. I think we're making some progress there.
    The immediate concern was proliferation to Iran, and I brought that 
up with Vladimir every time I visited with 
him. It's a very important issue that he understand that an armed Iran 
could be very dangerous to his own country, much less to our friends the 
Israelis or America, itself. And we've had some very important exchanges 
on that.
    In terms of helping make Russia a more secure place, we're working 
on what they call 10-plus-10-over-10: $10 billion from the U.S., $10 
billion from Europe over 10 years to help secure some weapons 
stockpiles. Vladimir is very interested in 
working with us to decommission some of his nuclear submarines to make 
Russia and the world more safe.
    In other words, my only point to you is, is that by being closer to 
Russia, we're able to deal more directly with some of the thorny issues 
that could separate us and could in fact make the West less likely to 
deal with Russia.

[[Page 1233]]

    And we've got another issues at home here that has upset a lot of 
our people, and that's chickens. Fortunately, we're arguing over 
chickens and not over war, over chickens and not over missiles, like we 
used to. But a lot of people here feel like there was a commitment made 
to let U.S. chickens into Russia. And they started moving into Russia, 
and all of a sudden they stopped moving into Russia. And so I've been--
so whether it be trade or minority rights or press, our relations are 
such that we're able to bring those up in a very frank and forthright 
way and yet still moved a very important relationship forward.
    Look, friends don't always agree, but friends are more likely to be 
able to work things out than enemies. As a matter of fact, in the old 
days, if there was a disagreement between enemies, that could lead to 
war. And there won't be a war between Russia and the United States.

Situation in the Middle East

    Q. Mr. President, a question on another very easy subject, the 
Middle East crisis.
    The President. Yes. [Laughter]
    Q. What solution do you see to the crisis, and what compromise do 
you expect from both sides?
    The President. Yes, that's a very good question. First, I do believe 
that we can achieve a vision of two states living side by side, at peace 
with each other. And that's the vision, and that's what all policy must 
aim toward. It starts with understanding that it's going to be 
impossible to achieve that vision if terrorists are allowed to have a 
free run and blow up the process.
    An incredibly important step toward the vision of two states living 
side by side is for the international community, including the Arab 
world, to work with us to develop the institutions necessary for the 
emergence of a Palestinian state that will be transparent; it will 
respect rule of law; it will have a constitution that will allow for a 
sharing-of-power arrangement; that will have institutions that outlast--
are far more important than any single one person.
    And we're in the process of working toward that end. Colin 
Powell will be meeting with what the call 
the Quad in New York. Foreign Ministers from the Arab world will be 
coming as well, later on, to work on the step-by-step process toward the 
emergence of a Palestinian state. And I repeat, that requires a 
constitution, a judiciary, transparency when it comes to financial 
conditions. And I believe there's financial aid available. I know there 
is.

[At this point, the tape machine stopped.]

    The President. Something just ground to a halt. That thing had, what 
do we call it, a skidding halt. Sounded like it needs some new tires.
    Anyway, the international community wants to help with aid, but 
they're not going to help with aid if it's going to be stolen. Let's put 
it very bluntly. And so the----

[The tape machine stopped again.]

    The President. ----the press conference has clearly gone too long. 
[Laughter]
    So we're working to get these institutions in place. Obviously as 
security improves, Israel is going to have to, as I said, pull her 
troops back to September of 2001--2000 levels. In other words--not 
levels but geographic--within geographic boundaries of September 2000. 
They're going to have to deal with the settlements. In other words, all 
parties have got responsibilities. The Arab world has got 
responsibilities, by the way, as well, to help on the development of a 
security force necessary--a security force, by the way, which must exist 
to enforce security, not enhance the status of a single person.
    So we're making progress. It requires a international commitment and 
a focus on a positive end, which is two states living side by side in 
peace. As I said, I'm an optimistic fellow and believe that if we stay 
at it and keep working hard, we can get

[[Page 1234]]

there. But there's no question in my mind, as I said in my speech in the 
Rose Garden recently, that there's going to be some setbacks. But our 
Nation is committed to a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
    All right, well, thank you all.

Note: The interview began at 10:55 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the 
White House. The transcript was released by the Office of the Press 
Secretary on July 15. In his remarks, the President referred to 
President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland, and his wife, Jolanta 
Kwasniewska; and President Vladimir Putin of Russia. The President also 
referred to MAP, the Military Assistance Program; AGOA, the African 
Growth and Opportunity Act; and the Quartet, a Middle East policy 
planning group consisting of representatives from the United States, the 
United Nations, Russia, and the European Union. A tape was not available 
for verification of the content of this interview.