[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book II)]
[July 12, 2002]
[Pages 1226-1234]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
Interview With Polish Journalists
July 12, 2002
The President. I'm looking forward to our state dinner. It's a
chance for me to, on a personal level, repay the favor of my friend
Aleksander for his great hospitality
to Laura and me when we visited he and Jolanta there in Warsaw.
Secondly, it's a chance to say to our country and the world how
important our relations are with Poland. We really think--respect the
Polish people. We've got great numbers of Polish Americans who still
love the motherland. And it's going to be a wonderful occasion to build
on a great relationship, make it even better.
We will discuss a lot of topics. We'll talk about the war on terror.
Poland has been a great friend and supporter, member of the coalition on
the war against terror. We've got troops in the--on ships off the Indian
Ocean. We've got engineers in Bagram, shared intelligence.
Aleksander has been a strong friend
and supporter. I'm confident he'll want to talk about NATO expansion.
Perhaps I'll leave that for a question.
But all in all, we've got great relations, and I look forward to
having a good conversation with a leader I respect. And I respect
Aleksander Kwasniewski.
Why don't we start with you, sir.
Democracy in Poland
Q. Thank you. Mr. President, about your talks with President
Kwasniewski next week, Poland has been viewed by your administration as
one of the most successful examples of democratic transformation.
However, the current Polish Government is taking some steps and adopting
some laws which would obviously limit independence of media and central
bank, which are the pillars of democracy. So are you going to raise
these issues with the President?
The President. Well, first of all, I've got faith that a democracy
will work. And I am confident that the Polish Government and the Polish
people will come up with the right answers to issues relating to any
law. I will--of course, if he asks my opinion, I will remind him that an
independent media is a very important part of democracy. It's one of the
pillars of democracy. I value our media, as an aside, saying that of
course to pander to the people here that cover me on a daily basis.
[Laughter]
But I do value a free and open media, and I think it's an incredibly
important part. But your opening statement was true. We value the
progress that Poland has made and the example Poland has set in a
neighborhood that was a pretty tough neighborhood for awhile. And I was
most impressed, when I went to Warsaw, to see the spirit of the people
and the optimism.
[[Page 1227]]
I understand the country is going through tough times, but all countries
go through tough times.
President's Upcoming Visit to Troy, Michigan
Q. Mr. President, you're taking Aleksander Kwasniewski--it was your
decision to go to Troy, Michigan, to meet with Polish Americans.
The President. Yes, we are.
Q. What is the reason for that meeting, and if you could tell us,
what is your message to Polish Americans?
The President. Well, first of all, the message to Polish Americans
is, I respect and honor the Polish traditions and Polish heritage.
Actually, there was a--even in my own State of Texas, there is a
community or two that Polish Americans have settled in Texas and still
retains many of the great traditions and heritages.
It also reminds people that even though they have got a Polish
heritage and embraced Polish traditions, they're Americans. It's a great
part of the American experience. We envelop and welcome people from all
walks of life. That in itself is an important statement to constantly
make in our country. It reminds people of the strength of the country.
I've decided to go to Troy, Michigan, because it's going to be a--I
hope it's a fun trip for Aleksander.
I mean, I think it's important--I understand what a state dinner is
like. It's formal. You'll see; it's going to be a grand day. They arrive
on the South Lawn. The military will be there. There's a lot of pomp and
circumstance. It's an exciting ceremony; it really is. And then there
will be the formal dinners and the black tie, and the people will come,
and the entertainment and the food--it's going to be great.
But there's more to a good American experience than just a formal
dinner. I try to wear a tuxedo as little as possible, I want you to
know. But flying out there to Michigan, the heartland of the country,
with our friend, is going to be great. And he's going to see a big, enthusiastic crowd. It will
give him a chance to say some things. And I think that's important to
provide him a forum, so that he can not only be seen in a tuxedo but be
seen speaking his mind about whatever issue he wants to talk about to an
American audience that is made up of people from his homeland that have
now settled in our country. I think it's going to be a great event. To
me, it helps complete the state dinner aspect of the trip.
U.S. Economy
Q. Mr. President, I talked to Mr. Kwasniewski just before yesterday.
The President. Yes. How is he
doing?
Q. Great. He looks good, in good shape.
The President. Looking forward to a 3-mile run? [Laughter]
Q. He told me that one of the topics he would like to touch on is
the recent financial scandals in the U.S., because they are a kind of
backlash on Central Europe, and the recovery is difficult. And there's
this feeling outgoing that the U.S. Government is not doing enough to
change its own rules to really prevent the backlash for a Central
European----
The President. Yes, I'll explain to him we are doing things, and I will be glad to lay out
the initiative I talked about--and have been talking about, by the way,
since March--February and March and then the speech I gave in New York.
And of course, our House has acted--the House of Representatives acted,
and the Senate has acted. And if he looks at what I proposed and what
the Senate has proposed and what the House proposed, there's not much
difference. And in other words, the point is that a bill will come out
that will hold people accountable for accounting error--accounting fraud
and, as we go forward, hopefully set an example--make it clear to
people, there will be a consequence if they continue to do that.
[[Page 1228]]
There are markets--three things affect our markets, I'll explain to
Aleksander. One of course is
confidence and the numbers, and we're addressing that. Secondly is the
war on terror. People are still--you know, realize that America is still
a target. And the American people know that we're doing everything we
can to protect the homeland and run down these killers wherever they try
to hide. And that's all they are, by the way, just nothing but a bunch
of coldblooded killers. And thirdly, the corporate sector--the profits
are beginning to improve, but the price-earnings multiples--in other
words, the price of a share relative to its earnings--was very high, and
the market is adjusting. So all three of those factors are important.
And obviously we--that's not the whole picture of our economy, and
that's what Aleksander has got to
understand. The market reflects part of it, but our unemployment rate
is--looks like it's steady. It has stopped rising. As a matter of fact,
it had a drop, and it's level. Our consumer spending numbers are up. Our
manufacturing orders are increasing. In other words, the recovery is
beginning to show some strength. So therefore, what I'm going to ask him
is to look at the entire picture.
Finally, we've got good monetary policy and good fiscal policy here
in Washington, and that in itself is part of long-term recovery. And so
he'll hear a man who is--recognizes that we're making some progress.
We've got to do more, but I'm pleased to report to him that I think
things are going to get better. The foundation for long-term growth has
been--is in place.
War on Terrorism
Q. Mr. President, I wanted to ask you a question about the war
against terrorism. The Europeans seem to less and less support the war
against terrorism. And I wonder if you could explain to us, why do you
think it's happening, and if you are ready to go alone on this next
phase of the war, whatever the phase is?
The President. No, I don't feel that the support from Europe is
lessening. As a matter of fact, I've just come from a G-8 meeting in
Canada where, to a person, they were very supportive of our war on
terror, because the Europeans recognize that the terrorists could strike
them just as easy as they could strike us. We've still got great
intelligence sharing amongst our nations. We've got good police action.
We have hauled in--``we'' being the coalition--has hauled in--that means
arrest--2,400, more than 2,400 terrorists. So we're picking them off,
one by one. This is a different kind of war.
I use every chance I get, when I speak to the American people, to
explain why this is different. And so--as opposed to destroying lines of
tanks or shooting down airplanes, success is measured by--one by one,
one person at a time. And the European leaders understand that, and
they've been very supportive. They still--I think we've got about 8,000
troops in Afghanistan--we do, in the Afghan theater, and there's another
8,000 troops from other nations there as well. So it's a firm
commitment.
I will continue to communicate and consult with our friends and
allies as to every stage of the war, as the battlefront shifts. By the
way, the battlefront isn't shifting out of Afghanistan. We're there.
We'll remain there. We've got a lot of work to do there. There's still
Al Qaida killers there. And of course we'll need to continue to have
deliberations with our friends and allies, and we'll have them for
future theaters and different operations. We talk to them all the time.
Poland's Purchase of New Fighter Jets
Q. Speaking of war, Mr. President, Poland is going to buy new
fighter planes----
The President. Yes, I understand that's the case.
Q. Yes. And the F-16s are one of the----
[[Page 1229]]
The President. I've got a suggestion for them. [Laughter]
Q. However, President Kwasniewski just 2 days ago--you kind of--was
kind of complaining that maybe the American offer is not meeting
enough--expectations. So is----
The President. He's negotiating in public. [Laughter]
Q. Is your administration in any way going to support U.S. companies
to win the standard----
The President. We will offer a fabulous product----
Q. Fabulous product.
The President. ----called the F-16. And we will work with our
friends to make--you know, to compete on an above-board basis, totally
above-board. And you know, we hope the Polish Government picks quality.
If they do, they will, of course, come our way. But that's up to the
Government. Aleksander will be and
the Government of Poland will--you know, we will respect the process and
respect the country and appreciate it's a tough decision and hope they
make the right decision as far as we're concerned. But that----
Future Role of NATO
Q. Mr. President, do you think that the NATO will play as important
role for the United States in the present century as it played in the
previous century?
The President. Yes.
Q. And do you think it is possible that Russia one day will become
NATO member?
The President. Interesting question. First, I do think NATO is very
important. It's obviously a different role. NATO served as kind of a
bulwark in defense against Russian tanks storming across the European
Continent. Those days are over. Russia is no longer the enemy. I
witnessed the fact that not only have we got good relations with Russia,
but the very same trip that I--when I went to Moscow to sign this treaty
that literally redefined our relationship from one of distrust and--like
it was during the cold war, to a new relationship, shortly thereafter we
went to Italy and welcomed a new relationship between NATO and Russia.
So the whole relationship has changed for the better.
NATO has--and I think it's going to be very hard--very important to
work that relationship with Russia, to allow for the--the new
relationship to develop and mature. And I think it will in a very
positive way.
The new relationship--the new role of NATO is--really needs to
adjust to the new realities of the 21st century, and that is how to best
fight the war on terror. And that means a different configuration of the
use of our forces and the use of assets. Our forces need to be lighter
and quicker to strike, and elite units need to be prepared to move at a
moment's notice.
The enemy has changed, and the battlefield, the nature of the
battlefield has changed. And therefore, the NATO mission must remain the
same, mutual defense. But its tactics must change. And I think NATO is
very relevant, and we will be an active and engaged partner in NATO.
Let me just--I'll ask myself, ``Well, Mr. President, do you think we
ought to expand?'' [Laughter] I gave a very important speech in Warsaw.
It's interesting--I hope the people in the world that are interested in
our opinion on subjects noted that the speech was in Warsaw. And the
speech was about a Europe that's whole, free, and at peace. And I talked
about the expansion of NATO, and I said that I am interested more rather
than less. And at the same time, I urged the applicant countries to take
nothing for granted, to work very hard up until the last minute to show
those of us in NATO that they'll be willing and active and capable
partners.
And I look forward to our meeting in Prague. I fully understand the
position of the Polish Government. I've had long discussions with
Aleksander on the subject of NATO
expansion, and I think people know
[[Page 1230]]
that I'm forward-leaning, depending--if the member countries, you know,
meet their MAP requirements.
Polish and U.S. Central Banks
Q. I want to go back to the finances and the limit. There is an
attempt in Poland to limit independence of central bank, so it would be
more--be manipulated more by Government, so Government would have more
influence over central bank. In the current situation, what's your
feeling about this?
The President. Well, first of all, I don't know all the facts about
how the Polish democracy is handling this particular situation. I can
tell you, however, from my experience, that a central bank should be
independent. And the independence of our central bank gives Chairman
Greenspan and the other Governors of the
Federal Reserve great credibility in our country, to know that decisions
are being made apart from politics. And our central bank is a part of--
is a very important part of our--has been and will continue to be a very
important part of the economic vitality of our country. It also gives
investors who look at our country great confidence to know that the
monetary supplies be not based upon politics, but the decisions on
monetary supplies will be based upon the vision of some very wise
people.
I think, when people look at how capital moves into countries, the
independence of a central bank is an important part of attracting
capital. And Poland needs to attract capital investment. If anybody were
to ask me my advice on the central bank, that's what I would give.
President's Popularity in Poland/President's Vacation
Q. I'd like to ask you about different subject. According to the
latest polls, you are the most popular foreign politician leader in
Poland.
The President. Really? I usually say I don't believe in polls, but I
may have to change my mind. [Laughter]
Q. With the same approval rate as President Kwasniewski. And I want
to ask you to comment on this, and----
The President. Well, how high is it?
Q. Would you be willing to visit Poland again?
The President. Seventy-three?
Q. Why don't you go to Poland?
The President. Again?
Q. On holiday.
The President. Thanks. I don't know what to say. I appreciate that.
I'm flattered.
Q. Are you willing to spend a vacation in Poland? With your parents,
obviously?
The President. With my parents? I don't know if my mother could
stand that. But listen, when I vacation, just kind of know about me, I
like to be with my family, and I like to be in Texas.
I just recently went to Maine. I'd love to go to Maine, too, to be
with my mother and dad. But my favorite vacation spot is my own ranch in
the State I love. And I like to get out and fool around on the land, and
it doesn't matter how hot it is or how cold it is. How hot it is and
cold it is matters to those who have to follow me. For me, there is no
day hot enough or cold enough. [Laughter] These poor souls--Crawford in
August. That's my idea of vacation.
Although I must say, I had a great time up with Mother and Dad this weekend, and I
love to be around them as well. But this August, I'm going to go down to
Texas and actually work out of Texas. I'm going to travel quite a bit.
After all, we're getting into the political season here in America.
We've got our elections in November of 2002.
September 11/War on Terrorism
Q. Mr. President, we talk a lot about how September 11th changed the
world, changed America. Has it changed you?
The President. Changed me?
[[Page 1231]]
Q. Yes.
The President. I don't think a single event can change anybody's
basic values. It obviously changed the fact that I knew that my time as
the President would be dedicated to winning the war on terror and
protecting our homeland.
This is--I keep telling people this--it's just a different type of
war, because much of the movement of the enemy is invisible to the
American people and/or to the world. And yet we know they're there. The
killers on September the 11th had been in our country for a period of
time. They behaved normally. They looked normal. They, you know, were
nonthreatening. It was hard to tell that they were part of this
unbelievably evil plot.
And it--we're concerned that another group are here or somewhere,
not only here but in other countries in Europe. And so the task is an
all-consuming task of protecting our homeland and making sure we do
everything we can here to find out if anybody is here and who they are
and disrupt their plans and, at the same time, hunt down their leaders.
The wars of the past had known battlefields, and it was clear that
such-and-such had to happen. There had to be an invasion in order to
achieve this or that. This is a hunt for individuals. We're chasing down
one person at a time. They were foolishly collected up at one point in
time in the Shahi-Kot Mountains, and it was a tough chore. But our brave
soldiers, along with coalition soldiers, were able to go in and score
great success at bringing them to justice, as I like to put it.
They're wise to our ways. They realize we're a heck of a lot tougher
than they thought. They assumed America was a weak country, that we
didn't really believe anything. And they're finding out that's not the
way we think. And so I realized after 9/11, after I got over the grief,
along with everybody else in our country, that this was a long, very
important struggle.
And the struggle goes beyond just fighting an Al Qaida-type network.
I have deep concerns about the development and deployment of weapons of
mass destruction, and so should you, so should anybody who loves
freedom, because there are nations in the world developing these weapons
who hate freedom, leaders hate freedom. And what we cannot allow happen
is these nations to develop these weapons and then blackmail us and/or
use them.
We will have--a judgment will have missed history's call to freedom.
And so I realize that this war is going to consume a lot of my time. On
the other hand, these members of the press know that I am optimistic
person who truly believes that we can achieve some positive things out
of the evil done to the country and to the world.
So when I talk to our friends, like Aleksander and others, I remind them of this call. We're
leaders in a significant moment in history, and we can't blink, and we
can't--we must be determined and focused to achieve this important
objective, which is peace for our children, is what we're really
fighting for, civilization.
Yes, ma'am.
Free Trade
Q. Mr. President, you always said that you are supporter of removing
the trade barriers.
The President. Yes.
Q. Why do you think there are so many of them still exist?
The President. Well, you know, because I think the temptation is to
be protectionist. And it's easier to mollify constituencies with
protectionist rhetoric. Poland suffers from protectionist policies in
parts of Europe, as you know. I'm a strong believer in free trade. I
want the Congress to give me what's called trade promotion authority. I
will exercise that diligently to open up markets.
On the other hand, I have an obligation to enforce law. And so I
recently said that the--I listened to an International Trade
[[Page 1232]]
Commission ruling on steel. The ITC ruled that excessive steel imports
were affecting our industry in a negative way. I put a temporary measure
in place, which exempted, by the way, Poland. And that was a chance for
the steel industry, our own steel industry, to get on its feet. But
nevertheless, as I reminded members of the European Union, this only
represents a very small portion of the $2 trillion of trade we have each
year.
But protectionism, for some, is a viable economic remedy. And in my
judgment, protectionism would be bad for the world and bad for our
country.
We're opening up--we sent our man to Doha to commit to the next
round of the World Trade Organization. And unlike Seattle, where it all
fell apart, we were able to--``we'' being those of us in the world who
support free trade--were able to move the process farther down the line.
And I will continue to work for free trade. It's in our Nation's
interests and the world's interests that we trade. It's in the
developing world's interest that there be trade. And our country is--
we've got what's called AGOA, agreement with the African countries. I'm
working on a free trade agreement with Central Americans. I'd like to
see a free trade agreement from Canada all the way down to Argentina.
As I say, there's protectionist tendencies that occasionally rise
up. We've just got to convince our respective people that trade is in
their interests.
Russia-U.S. Relations
Q. There is another President you have such a good relationship;
it's President Putin.
The President. Yes.
Q. Very good working relationship, on terrorism, on oil. But there
is this feeling also this is in cost of some human rights, human rights
in Chechnya, press freedom in Russia--it's overlooked now--and probably
some freedom of some other Russian republics. Don't you worry that this
close relationship is putting your--raising other problems?
The President. No, a close relationship with Putin allows me to make the case that, on media freedom,
for example--as a matter of fact, on my last trip there, I urged him to
interface with media entrepreneurs from America to understand how free
press actually works, something that they're not very used to in Russia.
And so there have been dialog interchanges now with some of our media
executives. And I do push Vladimir Putin on the need to have open media
and open his media.
And secondly, in terms of Chechnya, I'm constantly talking to
Vladimir Putin about relations with Chechnya
and understanding and supporting minority rights. The other issue that
is very important, to which we do not turn a blind eye, and which I'm
deeply concerned, not only about minority rights, is proliferation,
matters of proliferation. I think we're making some progress there.
The immediate concern was proliferation to Iran, and I brought that
up with Vladimir every time I visited with
him. It's a very important issue that he understand that an armed Iran
could be very dangerous to his own country, much less to our friends the
Israelis or America, itself. And we've had some very important exchanges
on that.
In terms of helping make Russia a more secure place, we're working
on what they call 10-plus-10-over-10: $10 billion from the U.S., $10
billion from Europe over 10 years to help secure some weapons
stockpiles. Vladimir is very interested in
working with us to decommission some of his nuclear submarines to make
Russia and the world more safe.
In other words, my only point to you is, is that by being closer to
Russia, we're able to deal more directly with some of the thorny issues
that could separate us and could in fact make the West less likely to
deal with Russia.
[[Page 1233]]
And we've got another issues at home here that has upset a lot of
our people, and that's chickens. Fortunately, we're arguing over
chickens and not over war, over chickens and not over missiles, like we
used to. But a lot of people here feel like there was a commitment made
to let U.S. chickens into Russia. And they started moving into Russia,
and all of a sudden they stopped moving into Russia. And so I've been--
so whether it be trade or minority rights or press, our relations are
such that we're able to bring those up in a very frank and forthright
way and yet still moved a very important relationship forward.
Look, friends don't always agree, but friends are more likely to be
able to work things out than enemies. As a matter of fact, in the old
days, if there was a disagreement between enemies, that could lead to
war. And there won't be a war between Russia and the United States.
Situation in the Middle East
Q. Mr. President, a question on another very easy subject, the
Middle East crisis.
The President. Yes. [Laughter]
Q. What solution do you see to the crisis, and what compromise do
you expect from both sides?
The President. Yes, that's a very good question. First, I do believe
that we can achieve a vision of two states living side by side, at peace
with each other. And that's the vision, and that's what all policy must
aim toward. It starts with understanding that it's going to be
impossible to achieve that vision if terrorists are allowed to have a
free run and blow up the process.
An incredibly important step toward the vision of two states living
side by side is for the international community, including the Arab
world, to work with us to develop the institutions necessary for the
emergence of a Palestinian state that will be transparent; it will
respect rule of law; it will have a constitution that will allow for a
sharing-of-power arrangement; that will have institutions that outlast--
are far more important than any single one person.
And we're in the process of working toward that end. Colin
Powell will be meeting with what the call
the Quad in New York. Foreign Ministers from the Arab world will be
coming as well, later on, to work on the step-by-step process toward the
emergence of a Palestinian state. And I repeat, that requires a
constitution, a judiciary, transparency when it comes to financial
conditions. And I believe there's financial aid available. I know there
is.
[At this point, the tape machine stopped.]
The President. Something just ground to a halt. That thing had, what
do we call it, a skidding halt. Sounded like it needs some new tires.
Anyway, the international community wants to help with aid, but
they're not going to help with aid if it's going to be stolen. Let's put
it very bluntly. And so the----
[The tape machine stopped again.]
The President. ----the press conference has clearly gone too long.
[Laughter]
So we're working to get these institutions in place. Obviously as
security improves, Israel is going to have to, as I said, pull her
troops back to September of 2001--2000 levels. In other words--not
levels but geographic--within geographic boundaries of September 2000.
They're going to have to deal with the settlements. In other words, all
parties have got responsibilities. The Arab world has got
responsibilities, by the way, as well, to help on the development of a
security force necessary--a security force, by the way, which must exist
to enforce security, not enhance the status of a single person.
So we're making progress. It requires a international commitment and
a focus on a positive end, which is two states living side by side in
peace. As I said, I'm an optimistic fellow and believe that if we stay
at it and keep working hard, we can get
[[Page 1234]]
there. But there's no question in my mind, as I said in my speech in the
Rose Garden recently, that there's going to be some setbacks. But our
Nation is committed to a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
All right, well, thank you all.
Note: The interview began at 10:55 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
White House. The transcript was released by the Office of the Press
Secretary on July 15. In his remarks, the President referred to
President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland, and his wife, Jolanta
Kwasniewska; and President Vladimir Putin of Russia. The President also
referred to MAP, the Military Assistance Program; AGOA, the African
Growth and Opportunity Act; and the Quartet, a Middle East policy
planning group consisting of representatives from the United States, the
United Nations, Russia, and the European Union. A tape was not available
for verification of the content of this interview.