    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book II)]
    [November 18, 2002]
    [Pages 2082-2089]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    [[Page 2082]]

    Interview With European Journalists
    November 18, 2002

        The President. So here's what we're going to do. I'll say a few
    comments, and we'll kind of do the loop until we run out of time.
        First, I'm really looking forward to this trip. I think it's going
    to be historic. You'll ask me who I'm voting for, for expansion; I'm not
    going to tell you. You'll find out on Thursday. I say that because
    that's what we've all agreed to.
        But if you're interested in knowing my philosophy toward the Prague
    summit, then you need only look as far as the speech I gave in Warsaw,
    Poland, that talked about a Europe whole, free, and at peace. I believe
    NATO expansion--and in that speech, you'd see that I talked about NATO
    expansion as good for America, because a Europe whole, free, and at
    peace is good for America.
        I am--believe in the spirit of the countries that we're talking
    about. I believe in their spirit. These are countries that have lived
    under totalitarianism, and they understand the value of freedom. And
    they love freedom, and I love that spirit. I think that's going to be a
    very important part of invigorating the Alliance.
        The Alliance is a crucial alliance. It's a strong alliance. We're
    going into a new period. And the idea of having members that are willing
    to shoulder their share of the burden of keeping the peace with the new
    threats is good, but--and this spirit of understanding what
    totalitarianism can mean and understanding the responsibilities of being
    free nations--that come with being a free nation is very important at
    this summit.
        So I'm really looking forward to it. It's--I'm excited to go to
    countries that have invited me to come. I look forward to the events.
    And so, with that, I'll answer some questions. Why don't we start here?
    You are from?

    President's Upcoming Visit to Romania

        Q. Yes, sir. I am from Romania.
        The President. That's good.
        Q. Sir, the Romanian people waited for the Americans after the World
    War II. We've waited for you almost 60 years. You know, the farmers were
    raising the corn in such a way that the American planes could land. That
    happened in '45 and the fifties. Now, for my parents, it might be a
    little bit late, but for my 11-years daughter, it might have a chance.
    You're coming to Bucharest next Saturday. This time are the Americans
    really coming to Romania?
        The President. Great question. No more Munichs. No more Yaltas.
    America--I come to your country because I believe that Romania is an
    important part of a Europe which is whole and free and at peace. The
    story of Romania is a powerful story, of people taking charge of their
    own lives, of----

    [At this point, a tape recorder stopped.]

        The President. We had a click here, in case anybody is interested.
    This one right here. Poor planning? [Laughter] Nobody claims it?
    Shouldn't have said poor planning. This is nobody's?
        Q. Might be mine.
        The President. It's yours?
        Q. Yes. If it's out, it's out. That's okay. [Laughter]
        The President. You don't want--if you've got to, turn it over.
    Getting quite articulate there. [Laughter]
        A lot of us watched the story of your country ridding yourselves of
    a totalitarian dictator, and it was a powerful story. But the story
    didn't end there. The story ended with a desire for freedom and
    democracy and open markets.
        And the answer to your question is, absolutely. That's what the
    whole Prague summit is about: All for one, and one for all.

    [[Page 2083]]

    We remember here in our country when, after the attacks of September the
    11th, NATO stood up and said, ``An attack on the United States is an
    attack on us.'' I will say the same thing about Romania and Lithuania
    and the Czech Republic and anybody else that might be a member of NATO.
    And that's what I feel.
        I appreciate that question. That's--your question is one of the
    reasons I look so forward to going to Romania----
        Q. Thank you, sir.
        The President. ----to be able to provide that assurance in what is
    going to be a, as I understand it, magnificent event where, on the one
    hand, I will be able to point to statues of heroic liberators, people
    who believed in freedom, that freedom was ingrained in their soul, and
    on the other hand, point to a balcony where the dictator had his--he
    realized reality. It's--as a matter of fact, I was looking at my speech
    last night.

    End of the Cold War

        Q. I'm from Lithuania, and Lithuania was recognized 11 years ago by
    your father, President Bush----
        The President. Forty-one, we call him.
        Q. ----who took an active role in managing the collapse of the
    Soviet Union. How do you recall these times?
        The President. Yes. Well, first, I want--I remember that, in terms
    of the Baltic states, that our country always viewed the Baltics as
    independent. During the Soviet era, we viewed the Baltics as
    independent. Secondly, I recall the times leading up to the collapse of
    the Soviet leadership, not only with my dad's actions as President but
    those of Ronald Reagan as well, where there was clarity of thought, that
    there was no equivocation when it came to issues such as freedom.
        And I keep saying that word because it is an issue that we face
    collectively today in other parts of the world. Freedom is essentially a
    human condition. It's not an American gift. It is God's gift to the
    world. I believe that. I believe that everybody--the Almighty
    recognizes, through His mercy and grace, that people are--the freedom of
    each individual. Everybody counts. Everybody is precious.
        It was exciting times for Americans to watch the change in the
    Soviet Union, because it meant that the days of significant animosity
    could be ending. A lot of us grew up when the two big countries were
    fierce enemies, and the rest of the world watched to see whether or not
    there would be war and watched many times in horror as to whether or not
    there would be war, because the consequences of war between the Soviet
    Union and America would have been devastating for a lot of people. It
    looked like that, to us, that the collapse of the Soviet Union would
    provide an opportunity for peace. That's the most significant--that's
    the most exciting thing for me, that the relationship would be changed.
        I'm honored to be in a position to help further the change of the
    relationship. I'll answer the Russian journalist's question in a
    minute--I'm not going to anticipate it--but I am going, after Prague,
    immediately to Russia for a reason.
        And anyway, it was exciting times for us. But the exciting--the true
    excitement is going to come when the people of the Baltics realize the
    world has changed dramatically, and it finally has changed dramatically
    in many ways, that Russia is not an enemy, that the United States is not
    an enemy of Russia, that the United States is still a friend of the
    Baltics. But most importantly, the Baltic people have got an opportunity
    now to realize their full potential. And that was what was 11 years ago
    we first saw, and it's an honor to be a continuing part of that history.
        Yes, sir.

    Chechnya/War on Terror

        Q. Mr. President, I would like to ask you a question regarding
    Chechnya.
        The President. Sure.

    [[Page 2084]]

        Q. I guess it will be one of the topics you will discuss with Mr.
    Putin----
        The President. Absolutely.
        Q. Do you believe that after the latest events--mainly, after
    hostage in Moscow and after the statements made by Usama bin Laden
    raising the terrorist acts in Bali and Moscow, do you believe, Mr.
    President, that you can understand better this red--terrorists pose to
    Russia? And would you agree--would you agree with President Putin, who
    says that the Chechen kind of terrorism vis-a-vis Russia is of the same
    nature as the Al Qaida terrorism to the United States?
        The President. Right. You didn't ask the question I thought you were
    going to ask. I'm going to Russia to make it clear to the Russians and
    to Vladimir Putin, they have nothing to fear
    from NATO expansion, that a Baltic--the Baltics in NATO are positive for
    Russia.
        Now, my answer to your question--I thought you were going to ask why
    I'm going to St. Petersburg. Anyway--[laughter]--and I'm going--I didn't
    hesitate when Vladimir and I talked about my
    trip to St. Petersburg, that it was very important for me to go there.
    And it was important for me say--explain why I think it's a positive
    development.
        Terrorism--first of all, I've got a good friend in the fight against
    terrorism in Vladimir Putin. He understands
    the stakes,MDNM/ and so do I. He understands that as you embrace freedom
    and embrace change and--that there will be people who resent that and
    want to impose their will.
        Secondly, I thought that at the theater that he was confronted with a very difficult situation.
    Eight hundred people were--were going to lose their lives. Clearly,
    these people were killers, just like the killers that came to America.
    There's a common--a common thread, that anytime anybody is willing to
    take innocent life for a so-called cause, they must be dealt with. And
    he made some very tough decisions. And people tried to blame Vladimir;
    they ought to blame the terrorists. They're the ones who caused the
    situation, not President Putin.
        Thirdly, I believe Chechnya can--I hope that Chechnya can be solved
    peacefully, that there's ways to discuss the political dialog in such a
    way that this issue can be solved peacefully. Thirdly, to the extent
    that there are Al Qaida members infiltrating Russia, they need to be
    dealt with; they need to be brought to justice. And I--you know, when
    Usama, praising these--the Muslim attacks in
    Chechnya, it's clear that there is an Al Qaida interest.
        That's why we're working so hard in Georgia with the Georgians to,
    one, encourage a dialog between Shevardnadze and President Putin, and
    two, develop a joint strategy to deal with the Al Qaida members which
    may be in the Pankisi Gorge. And so--but I will continue to talk to
    Vladimir about the need to protect and recognize the rights of
    minorities within any country and at the same time deal with terrorism.
    And I hope he can find that balance. I think he can.

    Czech Republic and NATO

        Q. Mr. President, how do you assess the performance of the Czech
    Republic in NATO in preparation for this summit?
        The President. Yes, well, first of all, they've been valuable
    members of NATO. I was able to express that to your President in his recent visit--who, by the way, is an
    outstanding human being and is highly respected and highly regarded in
    all of America. NATO has been--I mean, the Czech Republic has been a--
    was unhesitating in its support of Article 5 in NATO, for which I am
    grateful. Every conversation I've had with the President, he has been
    nothing more than anxious for the Czech Republic to perform its role
    within NATO.
        The interesting thing--let me give you kind of a broader statement
    about what you'll see at the Prague summit--is that everybody has got
    something to contribute in the military capacities of NATO to deal

    [[Page 2085]]

    with the new threats. And the Czech Republic certainly is such a
    country. There's going to be--I guess, the best word will be
    specialization--there needs to be a specialization as we develop the
    military capacity to deal with the true threat.
        Russia is not a threat, and therefore, the military strategies of
    NATO need to be changed to recognize that new reality. Russia is--Russia
    is a friend, not an enemy. NATO was formed because of the Warsaw Pact.
    The Warsaw Pact doesn't exist and, therefore, now--but there is a threat
    to all of us. And that is the threat in the form of international and
    global terrorism, which we must be able to deal with. The Czech Republic
    understands that. They're willing to help specialize. And it's up to the
    Czech Republic to determine that--along with Lord Robertson and his strategy--to determine how best to meet
    with the threats we face.
        Obviously, we've had good relations with the intelligence service of
    the Czech Republic, which is one of the key ingredients in order to
    fight terror. If you know somebody is thinking about doing something to
    us or we know somebody is thinking about doing something to you, we
    share intelligence. We've got good intelligence-sharing with Russia, by
    the way, now, because of the joint threat of global terror.
        It's a key ingredient in order to make sure we're able to find the
    new enemy. The enemy doesn't travel in army formations. They're killers.
    They take theaters. They crash airplanes into buildings. They bomb
    resorts. And we must know as much about their whereabouts and their
    plans as possible, in order to find them and bring them to justice. And
    therefore, there needs to be a different attitude about the threats we
    face.
        In terms of the Prague summit, I am mindful of what happens when the
    U.S. President shows up at times. I mean, it is--you know, there is
    going to be a lot of noise and clamor. But I'm actually confident that
    the Czech Republic will do a fine job. It is a big deal that this city
    of Prague hosts this, and nations from all over Europe coming and--plus
    the Canadians and ourselves. I'm sure there's going to be people who are
    willing to express their voices, that maybe perhaps think NATO--
    something about NATO is not the way they like it, or whatever it may be.
    We believe in free speech. Hopefully, they'll have an opportunity to
    speak freely in a way that's not--that doesn't promote violence.
        But the thing that impresses me most about the Czech Republic and
    its Government is, in spite of the terrible flood, devastating floods,
    that this Government and these people are anxious to host this meeting
    and will be able to do so in a great way. And it shows the great
    character of the people, to rise above the devastation to be able to
    host this summit. So I'm really looking forward to it. I can't wait to
    get there and will be there soon.

    Romania and NATO

        Q. Mr. President, what symbol would you associate to Romania on the
    new NATO map? I mean, where is the place of Romania in this new NATO
    map?
        The President. How do you mean, what's the place? What do you mean--
    well, first of all, you're getting me caught--if these countries get
    in--[laughter]. But the fact that I'm going to your country I guess says
    something. [Laughter]
        Q. We hope so.
        The President. Right now I'm off the record. Anyway--[laughter]--
    first of all, the map is more than just countries on a piece of paper;
    the map is an attitude. It's an attitude that says that we want to work
    toward open markets and open societies and transparency and fight
    corruption. We want to participate in the global war against terror in a
    way that we're capable of doing so.
        Physically, of course, Romania will be the leading edge of Europe
    extending its reach into Eastern Europe. And it's a significant reach.
    It is--today, it's interesting, the Vice

    [[Page 2086]]

    President and I were being briefed on an issue,
    and we looked at the map, and the Vice President said, ``I have trouble
    adjusting to the actual map of NATO.'' In other words, the point was
    that NATO now--NATO's reach is far east. And Romania represents that
    eastern reach. So physically it's a significant statement of the power
    of an alliance and the willingness of a people to adopt the habits
    necessary to have a free society.
        It's--I think that's probably the most significant thing about the
    NATO map. It's an attitude. It's the soul of NATO, like I described
    earlier. But it's the presence of Romania--really recognizes the change.
    And it's a significant change. It's an historic--this will be an
    historic day, our meeting on one day--Thursday, I think is the day--in
    which the decision will be actually announced.

    Lithuania

        Q. Although--Mr. President, although, yes--recognize the annexation
    and occupation of Lithuanian, to most Americans our country was unknown
    territory for a long time. And can you recall, when did you first and
    what hear about Lithuania? And what did you think of Lithuania at that
    time? And what do you think now?
        The President. Well, there's a lot of Lithuanian Americans who kept
    the hope alive of a free and independent Lithuania in America, not so
    much in my home State of Texas, mainly in the Midwest. And I think a lot
    of people took pity on the people of Lithuania, given the circumstances.
    And the Government took its position. But there was a patience by our
    leadership that eventually freedom would prevail.
        Lithuania is kind of a--it's got kind of a--all the Baltics, for
    that matter--have got an interesting kind of romance because it's a
    small country. It's totally overwhelmed, divided up. It's kind of handed
    out as pieces of a--pieces of a settlement that saddened a lot of
    Americans. But nobody ever gave up hope, I think. Most Americans never
    gave up hope that the Baltics would some day be able to realize their
    vast potential.
        I'm going to tell you an interesting story. This is from another
    Baltic country. It's from the Prime Minister of Estonia, came to see me. I'm very hesitant to put words into
    another leader's mouth. They tend to do it to me, and I don't like it.
    So I would paraphrase, loosely paraphrase. He was there at the time
    when--and one of the things I do is welcome a lot of leaders to America;
    it's an interesting experience. I have done so with the Lithuanian
    leadership as well.
        And I said--this is the day where I told our Congress we were going
    to encourage a national debate and dialog on Iraq. And I started to give
    him my rationale as to why I was thinking about Iraq. He said, ``You don't need to talk to me''--this is
    paraphrasing now--about Iraq. He said, ``Our country has watched
    democracies go soft in the face of totalitarianism, and we lived in
    slavery for 50 years.''
        Now, that's a paraphrase for the American press. But the point I
    want to make to you is that he was clear about
    obligations we have. That's what I think about the Baltics. The spirit--
    and Romania, for that matter, and the Czech Republic, as embodied in the
    works and thoughts of Vaclav Havel. That's what
    I think about your country. You know, I firmly believe that--again, I
    keep repeating myself, but it's on my mind because this is exactly what
    we're dealing with at the NATO expansion. And this is the concept of how
    precious freedom is for people. It is a--and it has a lot to do,
    frankly, with my thinking about Iraq too.
        The fact that people are tortured and subjugated, aren't free to
    realize their potential, really bothers me. I think we have an
    obligation to work to free people. There's all kinds of ways to do it,
    but we have that obligation. It doesn't happen as quickly sometimes as
    we would like. But that's an obligation of all of us who have

    [[Page 2087]]

    got--who live in free countries. You have that obligation. But there's
    no doubt you'll recognize that obligation because you're freshly free
    from subjugation. And that's what I was talking about, about the
    invigoration of the soul of NATO. That's what I think about when I think
    about the Baltics.

    United Nations Resolution on Iraq

        Q. Mr. President, you mentioned Iraq.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. Do you think--do you believe that Russian support of the U.N.
    resolution on Iraq has promoted any kind of reconciliation between the
    position of Russia and America on this matter? And what would you like
    to tell to President Putin in regard to----
        The President. Oh, yes. Well, first, I appreciate them working
    together with us on the resolution. The U.N. Security Council sent a
    clear signal to Iraq and the world. We expect them to disarm, is what
    the signal said. And actually, the U.N. Security Council sent a signal
    about themselves, that they want to be relevant.
        You see, if you send out 16 resolutions and all 16 resolutions were
    ignored, at some point in time, somebody has got to tell the truth and
    say, ``You're not relevant. Why pass a resolution unless you really mean
    it?'' And so we got together, and we said, ``Fine, let's pass this
    significant resolution.'' And the Russians were helpful and voted for
    it. And now the word is out, that the U.N. Security Council will be a
    relevant body. In other words, we intend to enforce the serious
    consequences if there's not disarmament, and that we're able to work
    with our friends. I thought that was a very positive thing.
        And I will tell this to Vladimir Putin.
    It's probably better for me to tell him, but not through your
    newspapers, but I'll try anyway. The issue is not inspectors. The issue
    is disarmament. That's the issue. And the question is, will Saddam
    Hussein disarm? That's what the U.N. Security
    Council has said, once again, with Russian support, along with other--a
    lot of other countries. And so he must show us whether or not he'll
    disarm, for the sake of peace.
        And if he doesn't, then we, of course,
    will consult, like we said we would do--we'd hold a meeting. But the
    interesting thing about the U.N. Security Council resolution is, all
    countries are free to act. And that was explained to Vladimir what my sentiments--I'm very strong about. This is
    not a--this isn't a free pass for Saddam, now that the resolution has
    been passed. Quite the contrary. We expect him to disarm. And we expect
    him to do everything he can to disarm. And we expect him to be
    cooperating in his disarmament for the sake of peace.
        And that's what the U.N. Security Council said to me, that people
    now have finally come to the conclusion that it's time now to deal with
    the issue. Hopefully, this can get done peacefully. But it's up to Mr.
    Saddam Hussein, and we'll see. It's time for
    him to declare if he's got any weapons. And we'll proceed from there.

     NATO and Iraq

        Q. Mr. President, will you ask the allies in Prague to contribute to
    military action if such action becomes necessary?
        The President. I will--first of all, I believe that the NATO
    Alliance understands the issue. The countries there would like to see a
    disarmed Saddam Hussein. They--a peaceful
    country, they believe in peace, just like I believe in peace. And a
    Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is--particularly since
    he's used them in the past, and he clearly can't stand America and many
    of our friends--would mean it would be likely for us not to have peace.
        Imagine a Saddam Hussein with a nuclear
    weapon. It's certainly not an ingredient for peace, quite the contrary.
    And so the NATO countries understand that. And if, in fact, military
    action is needed, we'll consult with them, and everybody will be able to
    make a decision that they're

    [[Page 2088]]

    comfortable with. But I wouldn't preclude a peaceful settlement. I hope
    it happens peacefully. But if it doesn't, just--people will know that
    our intent is to lead a coalition of like-minded, freedom-loving
    countries, a coalition of the willing to disarm Saddam Hussein. And one
    way or the other, he's going to be disarmed, and it's in everybody's
    interest that that be the case.
        So we'll talk about that. All right? Thank you for your time. Now,
    are you going on these trips? You're going to go to the NATO summit?
    That's going to be exciting. How many journalists will be there?

    NATO Summit in Prague

        Q. Two thousand seven hundred--that was the last figure I note from
    Prague before I came here.
        The President. Two thousand seven hundred.
        Q. Including TV crews.
        The President. Wow. Well, I can't wait for my press conference. I'm
    going to have about a 2-hour press conference there in front of 2,700.
    [Laughter]
        Q. Two days.
        The President. Two days. [Laughter] Just kidding, Steve [Steve
    Holland, Reuters].
        Q. Can't wait for that.
        The President. You're going?
        Q. Yes, sir.
        The President. It's going to be exciting. It's going to be a very
    exciting time. And so you have just come from Prague?
        Q. Yes.
        The President. So you tell me what the feeling is like there in the
    city.
        Q. Well, the city is almost evacuated, in expecting the summit,
    because----
        The President. The city is evacuated?
        Q. No, I'm joking, but the area around the conference center is
    almost evacuated. And the kids, they have holiday, and the shops are
    going to be closed, and the center of the city, Wenceslas Square where
    the demonstrations usually take place, is under police surveillance. So
    Prague is getting ready, so everyone is expecting how to get to work
    in--they are making arrangements.
        The President. Yes. And how many people are coming, just total? Do
    they have an estimate? From outside the Czech Republic.
        Q. More than 2,000 people--I mean, delegations and----
        The President. Oh, it's got to be way more than that.
        Q. ----with the staff and everything.
        The President. Well, the press is 2,700 alone. I bet there's--our
    mighty delegation--[laughter].
        Q. But only two hotels were affected by the floods. Only two of the
    number of the hotels that are ready for--to accommodate the delegations
    and----
        The President. They're ready?
        Q. ----only two hotels were badly affected by the floods.
    Otherwise----
        The President. How is the recovery from the floods?
        Q. It was bad. It was tough, and now it's getting better. There are
    some neighborhoods in Prague where people cannot return to their homes
    because of the----
        The President. Still?
        Q. ----and it's not only Prague. It's the whole country, going into
    Germany.
        The President. So sad.
        Q. So it's very bad. No chronicle--no person ever remembers such a
    disaster.
        The President. It's a 500-year flood.
        Q. A thousand.
        The President. A 1,000-year flood. Wow, that's too bad.
        Q. But as we say, Charles did it--from the 14th century. [Laughter]

    President's Visits to Europe

        The President. Well, I'm glad the country is recovering. We're
    really looking forward to it and looking forward to our trips, too.
    They're going to be magnificent.
        Q. We expect more people than for the Pope in 1999.

    [[Page 2089]]

        The President. Really? It's going to be exciting. I'm looking
    forward to it. I better make sure my speech is--I think they'll like it.
        All right. We'll see you there. Thanks. Thanks for coming. I'm
    looking forward to going to St. Petersburg again.
        Q. Yes, sure. Thank you very much.
        The President. The second time in one year. Maybe a third time.
        Q. Did you like it?
        The President. Yes, it was spectacular. Remember, we went out on the
    boat, Vladimir, myself, Sergey
    Ivanov, floated a--White Nights.
    Fantastic. It won't be White Nights this time, though. Will be white
    days, right, snowing?
        Q. Yes, snowing. [Laughter]
        The President. We'll see you all there. Thank you.

    Note: The interview was taped at 10:45 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House for later broadcast, and the transcript was embargoed for
    release by the Office of the Press Secretary until 6:30 p.m. In his
    remarks, the President referred to President Vladimir Putin of Russia;
    Usama bin Laden, leader of the Al Qaida terrorist organization; Prime
    Minister Siim Kallas of Estonia; President Vaclav Havel of the Czech
    Republic; President Eduard Shevardnadze of the Republic of Georgia;
    Secretary General Lord Robertson of the North Atlantic Treaty
    Organization; President Saddam Hussein of Iraq; and Russian Minister of
    Defense Sergey Borisovich Ivanov. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.