    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book II)]
    [November 18, 2002]
    [Pages 2089-2092]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
    November 18, 2002

    Coalition Against Iraq

        Q. Mr. President, this week NATO will be celebrating an historic
    expansion as well as focusing on transforming the Alliance to meet new
    threats, such as Iraq. You have spoken about the possibility of leading
    a coalition of the willing against Iraq. Why not speak about using NATO
    forces against Iraq, since under NATO's charter all members are supposed
    to come to the aid of any member under direct threat?
        The President. Well, first of all, I hope we can do this peacefully.
    And by doing it peacefully, that means I hope Saddam Hussein disarms. Of course, we've hoped that for 11 years.
    We've hoped that for 16 resolutions. We now have a 17th resolution, and
    this time I intend to work with nations that love freedom and peace,
    make sure the resolution stands. And if he doesn't disarm, you're right,
    I'll lead a coalition of the willing to disarm him. And there's all
    kinds of ways for that coalition to be formed. It could be formed with
    NATO, if they choose. I have said to the U.N. Security Council, ``We'll
    go back and discuss the matter with you.'' But Mr. Saddam Hussein must
    understand he'll be disarmed one way or the other. I hope it's done
    peacefully.

    NATO and the War on Terror

        Q. The new members of NATO are quite small. Do you see them as
    contributing something significant militarily to the Alliance?
        The President. I was hoping you'd ask, do I see them contributing
    something to the Alliance, so I'm going to answer it that way. First,
    I'll answer it militarily, because I do believe they can contribute
    something really important, and that is, they can contribute their love
    for freedom. These are countries which have lived in totalitarian

    [[Page 2090]]

    states. They haven't been free. And now they've seen freedom and they
    love freedom, just like America loves freedom. And that's going to be a
    really important--it will add some vigor to the relationship in NATO
    that's healthy and wholesome.
        And I think they will. The key is to--I think they will help
    militarily--but the key is to change the military strategy of NATO. Lord
    Robertson understands this. It starts with the
    understanding that Russia is not our enemy. NATO doesn't need to be
    constructed to prevent the Warsaw Pact from invading Europe. After all,
    the Warsaw Pact doesn't exist. As a matter of fact, the Warsaw Pact is
    becoming NATO, slowly but surely. We don't need that type of mentality,
    and we've got to have a military strategy that addresses the true
    threats.
        The threats we face are global terrorist attacks. That's the threat.
    And the more you love freedom, the more likely it is you'll be attacked.
    And therefore, the Article 5 that you referred to for NATO becomes very
    relevant in this war against terror. The war against terror will not
    only be defeated--the terrorists will not only be defeated militarily,
    but the terrorists will be defeated as we share intelligence and as we
    cut off money and as we deny access and as we stiffen up border
    requirements in order to make sure that people can't go from one spot to
    another with plots and/or messages to attack.
        And so it's a different kind of war. And it's going to be an
    interesting meeting, because not only is the meeting going to expand,
    but the meeting is going to address how best to achieve this common
    objective. I'm absolutely convinced that the so-called military gap
    between America and all countries can be addressed with a good strategy.
    And that will be interesting for observers to watch. I think it's going
    to happen. I know that Lord Robertson, who
    runs NATO, is committed to developing a relevant strategy and one that
    will work.

    Chechnya/War on Terror

        Q. Russian President Vladimir Putin has equated his war in Chechnya
    with the U.S. war on terrorism. Do you agree with that equation, or do
    you still feel, as was stated during your election campaign, that
    Russian forces are committing brutalities against innocent Chechen
    civilians?
        The President. I think that Russia should be able to--or hope that
    Russia should be able to solve their issue with Chechnya peacefully.
    That's not to say that Vladimir shouldn't do
    what it takes to protect his people from individual terrorist attacks.
    But this is a different kind of war that we face. This is a war where
    we're dealing with people who hide in caves and kind of shadowy corners
    of the world and send people to their suicidal deaths. It's a war that I
    believe can lend itself both to chasing those people down and, at the
    same time, solving issues in a peaceful way, with respect for the human
    rights of minorities within countries. I said that in the campaign. I
    also say it to Mr. Putin every time I see him.

    NATO-Russia Partnership

        Q. Do you envision Russia ever becoming a full-fledged member of
    NATO?
        The President. I think the partnership between NATO and Russia is
    going to be a very constructive partnership. We'll see. Time will tell.
    The key thing is to make sure the relationship works the way it should,
    which really says to Russia that a expanded NATO on your border is not a
    threat to you or your future. As a matter of fact, it should enable you
    to grow peacefully.
        I'm going from Prague to St. Petersburg precisely to deliver that
    message to the Russian people, that even though NATO will have been
    expanded on your border, particularly in sensitive areas like the
    Baltics, you should not fear expansion, you should welcome expansion,
    because you've now got a neighborhood that is much more peaceful for you
    to--in which to realize

    [[Page 2091]]

    your vast potential. And that's important for Russia to hear.
        Q. Russia now has a special council with NATO----
        The President. Are we getting the hook already?
        Q. Does that mean we're running out of time? Let me ask you another
    question----
        The President. It's hard to see on radio.

    Freedom and the War on Terror

        Q. Central Asia--we broadcast to Central Asia. And many experts say
    that the authoritarian regimes in that region are actually fueling
    terrorism because their people feel helpless and unable to effect
    change. Do you think there are any dangers in the U.S. allying itself
    closely with those governments that are----
        The President. I think anytime the United States allies itself with
    a government, that we never forget the basic premises of our existence,
    and that is: Freedom is important; the human condition for all are
    important; we value every life; everybody counts. And in my judgment,
    the more people relate to the United States and work with the United
    States, the more likely it is they will work to improve the human
    condition. And that's what we spend a lot of time doing. That's one of
    the great things about our country is that we embrace freedom, first and
    foremost.
        It's one of my concerns about Iraq. Listen, we've got people living
    in Iraq that are tortured and brutalized in order to keep this
    man in power. I weep for those who suffer.
        And so the great cause of the United States is freedom. I tell these
    countries--they talk about freedom--I say, ``Freedom isn't America's
    gift to the world. It's God-given. Everybody counts.'' And it is with--
    that spirit of recognizing the values of freedom I think will help
    improve people, no matter where. And you're right, there's some leaders
    there that need work with, and we're prepared to work with them.
        But I will tell you, people--poverty is a tool for recruitment
    amongst these global terrorists. It's a way for them to recruit,
    perhaps. But poverty doesn't cause killers to exist. And it's an
    important distinction to make. These global terrorists are--some of them
    are rich, monetarily. They're obviously poor in spirit. They have no
    regard for human life. They claim they're religious, and they kill in
    the name of religion. And there are some breeding grounds, no question
    about it. And therefore, we hope that prosperity spreads out from
    central government to help people. But I hope people don't confuse the
    mentality of the terrorist leaders and economic plight, because these
    people are plenty comfortable. They just kill. And we're going to get
    them before they get us. And that's what the world needs to know about
    the United States.

    Usama bin Laden

        Q. Usama bin Laden still seems to be alive. Are you----
        The President. Could be.
        Q. ----worried that he's plotting another major attack on the United
    States?
        The President. Whether it's him or somebody else, they're plotting
    an attack, no question about it. That's why we've got to get them. But
    this issue is bigger than one person. If--the war on terror is a group
    of fanatics. They hate America because of what we stand for. They hate
    us because we love freedom. And that's why we're on the hunt. And slowly
    but surely, we're dismantling them.
        I told the people of this country it's going to take a while. I said
    it's going to be patient--the farther we get away from September the
    11th, 2001, the more people are going to tend to forget what took place
    in this country. And it's normal reaction for people to just kind of try
    to settle back and hope that something doesn't exist. But my job is to
    remind people of the threats we face, based upon facts, and to find
    these killers. And that's exactly what we're going to do. As I tell
    people in America, there's

    [[Page 2092]]

    no cave dark enough to hide from the justice of America and our friends.
        And my speech I'm going to give in Prague to the youngsters there,
    I'm going to remind them there is a coalition of the willing in place
    right now, chasing down terror. We've got 90 nations--90 different
    nations--all teamed up, doing everything we can to bring these people to
    justice. And we'll prevail. Make no mistake about it. We'll prevail.
        Thank you, sir.
        Q. Thank you, sir.
        The President. Is there any doubt in your mind we'll prevail?
        Q. Not anymore. [Laughter]

    Note: The interview was recorded at 1:45 p.m. in the Library at the
    White House. In his remarks, the President referred to President Saddam
    Hussein of Iraq; Secretary General Lord Robertson of the North Atlantic
    Treaty Organization; President Vladimir Putin of Russia; and Usama bin
    Laden, leader of the Al Qaida terrorist organization. A portion of this
    interview could not be verified because the tape was incomplete.