    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book II)]
    [July 12, 2002]
    [Pages 1226-1234]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Polish Journalists
    July 12, 2002

        The President. I'm looking forward to our state dinner. It's a
    chance for me to, on a personal level, repay the favor of my friend
    Aleksander for his great hospitality
    to Laura and me when we visited he and Jolanta there in Warsaw.
    Secondly, it's a chance to say to our country and the world how
    important our relations are with Poland. We really think--respect the
    Polish people. We've got great numbers of Polish Americans who still
    love the motherland. And it's going to be a wonderful occasion to build
    on a great relationship, make it even better.
        We will discuss a lot of topics. We'll talk about the war on terror.
    Poland has been a great friend and supporter, member of the coalition on
    the war against terror. We've got troops in the--on ships off the Indian
    Ocean. We've got engineers in Bagram, shared intelligence.
    Aleksander has been a strong friend
    and supporter. I'm confident he'll want to talk about NATO expansion.
    Perhaps I'll leave that for a question.
        But all in all, we've got great relations, and I look forward to
    having a good conversation with a leader I respect. And I respect
    Aleksander Kwasniewski.
        Why don't we start with you, sir.

    Democracy in Poland

        Q. Thank you. Mr. President, about your talks with President
    Kwasniewski next week, Poland has been viewed by your administration as
    one of the most successful examples of democratic transformation.
    However, the current Polish Government is taking some steps and adopting
    some laws which would obviously limit independence of media and central
    bank, which are the pillars of democracy. So are you going to raise
    these issues with the President?
        The President. Well, first of all, I've got faith that a democracy
    will work. And I am confident that the Polish Government and the Polish
    people will come up with the right answers to issues relating to any
    law. I will--of course, if he asks my opinion, I will remind him that an
    independent media is a very important part of democracy. It's one of the
    pillars of democracy. I value our media, as an aside, saying that of
    course to pander to the people here that cover me on a daily basis.
    [Laughter]
        But I do value a free and open media, and I think it's an incredibly
    important part. But your opening statement was true. We value the
    progress that Poland has made and the example Poland has set in a
    neighborhood that was a pretty tough neighborhood for awhile. And I was
    most impressed, when I went to Warsaw, to see the spirit of the people
    and the optimism.

    [[Page 1227]]

    I understand the country is going through tough times, but all countries
    go through tough times.

    President's Upcoming Visit to Troy, Michigan

        Q. Mr. President, you're taking Aleksander Kwasniewski--it was your
    decision to go to Troy, Michigan, to meet with Polish Americans.
        The President. Yes, we are.
        Q. What is the reason for that meeting, and if you could tell us,
    what is your message to Polish Americans?
        The President. Well, first of all, the message to Polish Americans
    is, I respect and honor the Polish traditions and Polish heritage.
    Actually, there was a--even in my own State of Texas, there is a
    community or two that Polish Americans have settled in Texas and still
    retains many of the great traditions and heritages.
        It also reminds people that even though they have got a Polish
    heritage and embraced Polish traditions, they're Americans. It's a great
    part of the American experience. We envelop and welcome people from all
    walks of life. That in itself is an important statement to constantly
    make in our country. It reminds people of the strength of the country.
        I've decided to go to Troy, Michigan, because it's going to be a--I
    hope it's a fun trip for Aleksander.
    I mean, I think it's important--I understand what a state dinner is
    like. It's formal. You'll see; it's going to be a grand day. They arrive
    on the South Lawn. The military will be there. There's a lot of pomp and
    circumstance. It's an exciting ceremony; it really is. And then there
    will be the formal dinners and the black tie, and the people will come,
    and the entertainment and the food--it's going to be great.
        But there's more to a good American experience than just a formal
    dinner. I try to wear a tuxedo as little as possible, I want you to
    know. But flying out there to Michigan, the heartland of the country,
    with our friend, is going to be great. And he's going to see a big, enthusiastic crowd. It will
    give him a chance to say some things. And I think that's important to
    provide him a forum, so that he can not only be seen in a tuxedo but be
    seen speaking his mind about whatever issue he wants to talk about to an
    American audience that is made up of people from his homeland that have
    now settled in our country. I think it's going to be a great event. To
    me, it helps complete the state dinner aspect of the trip.

    U.S. Economy

        Q. Mr. President, I talked to Mr. Kwasniewski just before yesterday.
        The President. Yes. How is he
    doing?
        Q. Great. He looks good, in good shape.
        The President. Looking forward to a 3-mile run? [Laughter]
        Q. He told me that one of the topics he would like to touch on is
    the recent financial scandals in the U.S., because they are a kind of
    backlash on Central Europe, and the recovery is difficult. And there's
    this feeling outgoing that the U.S. Government is not doing enough to
    change its own rules to really prevent the backlash for a Central
    European----
        The President. Yes, I'll explain to him we are doing things, and I will be glad to lay out
    the initiative I talked about--and have been talking about, by the way,
    since March--February and March and then the speech I gave in New York.
    And of course, our House has acted--the House of Representatives acted,
    and the Senate has acted. And if he looks at what I proposed and what
    the Senate has proposed and what the House proposed, there's not much
    difference. And in other words, the point is that a bill will come out
    that will hold people accountable for accounting error--accounting fraud
    and, as we go forward, hopefully set an example--make it clear to
    people, there will be a consequence if they continue to do that.

    [[Page 1228]]

        There are markets--three things affect our markets, I'll explain to
    Aleksander. One of course is
    confidence and the numbers, and we're addressing that. Secondly is the
    war on terror. People are still--you know, realize that America is still
    a target. And the American people know that we're doing everything we
    can to protect the homeland and run down these killers wherever they try
    to hide. And that's all they are, by the way, just nothing but a bunch
    of coldblooded killers. And thirdly, the corporate sector--the profits
    are beginning to improve, but the price-earnings multiples--in other
    words, the price of a share relative to its earnings--was very high, and
    the market is adjusting. So all three of those factors are important.
        And obviously we--that's not the whole picture of our economy, and
    that's what Aleksander has got to
    understand. The market reflects part of it, but our unemployment rate
    is--looks like it's steady. It has stopped rising. As a matter of fact,
    it had a drop, and it's level. Our consumer spending numbers are up. Our
    manufacturing orders are increasing. In other words, the recovery is
    beginning to show some strength. So therefore, what I'm going to ask him
    is to look at the entire picture.
        Finally, we've got good monetary policy and good fiscal policy here
    in Washington, and that in itself is part of long-term recovery. And so
    he'll hear a man who is--recognizes that we're making some progress.
    We've got to do more, but I'm pleased to report to him that I think
    things are going to get better. The foundation for long-term growth has
    been--is in place.

    War on Terrorism

        Q. Mr. President, I wanted to ask you a question about the war
    against terrorism. The Europeans seem to less and less support the war
    against terrorism. And I wonder if you could explain to us, why do you
    think it's happening, and if you are ready to go alone on this next
    phase of the war, whatever the phase is?
        The President. No, I don't feel that the support from Europe is
    lessening. As a matter of fact, I've just come from a G-8 meeting in
    Canada where, to a person, they were very supportive of our war on
    terror, because the Europeans recognize that the terrorists could strike
    them just as easy as they could strike us. We've still got great
    intelligence sharing amongst our nations. We've got good police action.
    We have hauled in--``we'' being the coalition--has hauled in--that means
    arrest--2,400, more than 2,400 terrorists. So we're picking them off,
    one by one. This is a different kind of war.
        I use every chance I get, when I speak to the American people, to
    explain why this is different. And so--as opposed to destroying lines of
    tanks or shooting down airplanes, success is measured by--one by one,
    one person at a time. And the European leaders understand that, and
    they've been very supportive. They still--I think we've got about 8,000
    troops in Afghanistan--we do, in the Afghan theater, and there's another
    8,000 troops from other nations there as well. So it's a firm
    commitment.
        I will continue to communicate and consult with our friends and
    allies as to every stage of the war, as the battlefront shifts. By the
    way, the battlefront isn't shifting out of Afghanistan. We're there.
    We'll remain there. We've got a lot of work to do there. There's still
    Al Qaida killers there. And of course we'll need to continue to have
    deliberations with our friends and allies, and we'll have them for
    future theaters and different operations. We talk to them all the time.

    Poland's Purchase of New Fighter Jets

        Q. Speaking of war, Mr. President, Poland is going to buy new
    fighter planes----
        The President. Yes, I understand that's the case.
        Q. Yes. And the F-16s are one of the----

    [[Page 1229]]

        The President. I've got a suggestion for them. [Laughter]
        Q. However, President Kwasniewski just 2 days ago--you kind of--was
    kind of complaining that maybe the American offer is not meeting
    enough--expectations. So is----
        The President. He's negotiating in public. [Laughter]
        Q. Is your administration in any way going to support U.S. companies
    to win the standard----
        The President. We will offer a fabulous product----
        Q. Fabulous product.
        The President. ----called the F-16. And we will work with our
    friends to make--you know, to compete on an above-board basis, totally
    above-board. And you know, we hope the Polish Government picks quality.
    If they do, they will, of course, come our way. But that's up to the
    Government. Aleksander will be and
    the Government of Poland will--you know, we will respect the process and
    respect the country and appreciate it's a tough decision and hope they
    make the right decision as far as we're concerned. But that----

    Future Role of NATO

        Q. Mr. President, do you think that the NATO will play as important
    role for the United States in the present century as it played in the
    previous century?
        The President. Yes.
        Q. And do you think it is possible that Russia one day will become
    NATO member?
        The President. Interesting question. First, I do think NATO is very
    important. It's obviously a different role. NATO served as kind of a
    bulwark in defense against Russian tanks storming across the European
    Continent. Those days are over. Russia is no longer the enemy. I
    witnessed the fact that not only have we got good relations with Russia,
    but the very same trip that I--when I went to Moscow to sign this treaty
    that literally redefined our relationship from one of distrust and--like
    it was during the cold war, to a new relationship, shortly thereafter we
    went to Italy and welcomed a new relationship between NATO and Russia.
    So the whole relationship has changed for the better.
        NATO has--and I think it's going to be very hard--very important to
    work that relationship with Russia, to allow for the--the new
    relationship to develop and mature. And I think it will in a very
    positive way.
        The new relationship--the new role of NATO is--really needs to
    adjust to the new realities of the 21st century, and that is how to best
    fight the war on terror. And that means a different configuration of the
    use of our forces and the use of assets. Our forces need to be lighter
    and quicker to strike, and elite units need to be prepared to move at a
    moment's notice.
        The enemy has changed, and the battlefield, the nature of the
    battlefield has changed. And therefore, the NATO mission must remain the
    same, mutual defense. But its tactics must change. And I think NATO is
    very relevant, and we will be an active and engaged partner in NATO.
        Let me just--I'll ask myself, ``Well, Mr. President, do you think we
    ought to expand?'' [Laughter] I gave a very important speech in Warsaw.
    It's interesting--I hope the people in the world that are interested in
    our opinion on subjects noted that the speech was in Warsaw. And the
    speech was about a Europe that's whole, free, and at peace. And I talked
    about the expansion of NATO, and I said that I am interested more rather
    than less. And at the same time, I urged the applicant countries to take
    nothing for granted, to work very hard up until the last minute to show
    those of us in NATO that they'll be willing and active and capable
    partners.
        And I look forward to our meeting in Prague. I fully understand the
    position of the Polish Government. I've had long discussions with
    Aleksander on the subject of NATO
    expansion, and I think people know

    [[Page 1230]]

    that I'm forward-leaning, depending--if the member countries, you know,
    meet their MAP requirements.

    Polish and U.S. Central Banks

        Q. I want to go back to the finances and the limit. There is an
    attempt in Poland to limit independence of central bank, so it would be
    more--be manipulated more by Government, so Government would have more
    influence over central bank. In the current situation, what's your
    feeling about this?
        The President. Well, first of all, I don't know all the facts about
    how the Polish democracy is handling this particular situation. I can
    tell you, however, from my experience, that a central bank should be
    independent. And the independence of our central bank gives Chairman
    Greenspan and the other Governors of the
    Federal Reserve great credibility in our country, to know that decisions
    are being made apart from politics. And our central bank is a part of--
    is a very important part of our--has been and will continue to be a very
    important part of the economic vitality of our country. It also gives
    investors who look at our country great confidence to know that the
    monetary supplies be not based upon politics, but the decisions on
    monetary supplies will be based upon the vision of some very wise
    people.
        I think, when people look at how capital moves into countries, the
    independence of a central bank is an important part of attracting
    capital. And Poland needs to attract capital investment. If anybody were
    to ask me my advice on the central bank, that's what I would give.

    President's Popularity in Poland/President's Vacation

        Q. I'd like to ask you about different subject. According to the
    latest polls, you are the most popular foreign politician leader in
    Poland.
        The President. Really? I usually say I don't believe in polls, but I
    may have to change my mind. [Laughter]
        Q. With the same approval rate as President Kwasniewski. And I want
    to ask you to comment on this, and----
        The President. Well, how high is it?
        Q. Would you be willing to visit Poland again?
        The President. Seventy-three?
        Q. Why don't you go to Poland?
        The President. Again?
        Q. On holiday.
        The President. Thanks. I don't know what to say. I appreciate that.
    I'm flattered.
        Q. Are you willing to spend a vacation in Poland? With your parents,
    obviously?
        The President. With my parents? I don't know if my mother could
    stand that. But listen, when I vacation, just kind of know about me, I
    like to be with my family, and I like to be in Texas.
        I just recently went to Maine. I'd love to go to Maine, too, to be
    with my mother and dad. But my favorite vacation spot is my own ranch in
    the State I love. And I like to get out and fool around on the land, and
    it doesn't matter how hot it is or how cold it is. How hot it is and
    cold it is matters to those who have to follow me. For me, there is no
    day hot enough or cold enough. [Laughter] These poor souls--Crawford in
    August. That's my idea of vacation.
        Although I must say, I had a great time up with Mother and Dad this weekend, and I
    love to be around them as well. But this August, I'm going to go down to
    Texas and actually work out of Texas. I'm going to travel quite a bit.
    After all, we're getting into the political season here in America.
    We've got our elections in November of 2002.

    September 11/War on Terrorism

        Q. Mr. President, we talk a lot about how September 11th changed the
    world, changed America. Has it changed you?
        The President. Changed me?

    [[Page 1231]]

        Q. Yes.
        The President. I don't think a single event can change anybody's
    basic values. It obviously changed the fact that I knew that my time as
    the President would be dedicated to winning the war on terror and
    protecting our homeland.
        This is--I keep telling people this--it's just a different type of
    war, because much of the movement of the enemy is invisible to the
    American people and/or to the world. And yet we know they're there. The
    killers on September the 11th had been in our country for a period of
    time. They behaved normally. They looked normal. They, you know, were
    nonthreatening. It was hard to tell that they were part of this
    unbelievably evil plot.
        And it--we're concerned that another group are here or somewhere,
    not only here but in other countries in Europe. And so the task is an
    all-consuming task of protecting our homeland and making sure we do
    everything we can here to find out if anybody is here and who they are
    and disrupt their plans and, at the same time, hunt down their leaders.
        The wars of the past had known battlefields, and it was clear that
    such-and-such had to happen. There had to be an invasion in order to
    achieve this or that. This is a hunt for individuals. We're chasing down
    one person at a time. They were foolishly collected up at one point in
    time in the Shahi-Kot Mountains, and it was a tough chore. But our brave
    soldiers, along with coalition soldiers, were able to go in and score
    great success at bringing them to justice, as I like to put it.
        They're wise to our ways. They realize we're a heck of a lot tougher
    than they thought. They assumed America was a weak country, that we
    didn't really believe anything. And they're finding out that's not the
    way we think. And so I realized after 9/11, after I got over the grief,
    along with everybody else in our country, that this was a long, very
    important struggle.
        And the struggle goes beyond just fighting an Al Qaida-type network.
    I have deep concerns about the development and deployment of weapons of
    mass destruction, and so should you, so should anybody who loves
    freedom, because there are nations in the world developing these weapons
    who hate freedom, leaders hate freedom. And what we cannot allow happen
    is these nations to develop these weapons and then blackmail us and/or
    use them.
        We will have--a judgment will have missed history's call to freedom.
    And so I realize that this war is going to consume a lot of my time. On
    the other hand, these members of the press know that I am optimistic
    person who truly believes that we can achieve some positive things out
    of the evil done to the country and to the world.
        So when I talk to our friends, like Aleksander and others, I remind them of this call. We're
    leaders in a significant moment in history, and we can't blink, and we
    can't--we must be determined and focused to achieve this important
    objective, which is peace for our children, is what we're really
    fighting for, civilization.
        Yes, ma'am.

    Free Trade

        Q. Mr. President, you always said that you are supporter of removing
    the trade barriers.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. Why do you think there are so many of them still exist?
        The President. Well, you know, because I think the temptation is to
    be protectionist. And it's easier to mollify constituencies with
    protectionist rhetoric. Poland suffers from protectionist policies in
    parts of Europe, as you know. I'm a strong believer in free trade. I
    want the Congress to give me what's called trade promotion authority. I
    will exercise that diligently to open up markets.
        On the other hand, I have an obligation to enforce law. And so I
    recently said that the--I listened to an International Trade

    [[Page 1232]]

    Commission ruling on steel. The ITC ruled that excessive steel imports
    were affecting our industry in a negative way. I put a temporary measure
    in place, which exempted, by the way, Poland. And that was a chance for
    the steel industry, our own steel industry, to get on its feet. But
    nevertheless, as I reminded members of the European Union, this only
    represents a very small portion of the $2 trillion of trade we have each
    year.
        But protectionism, for some, is a viable economic remedy. And in my
    judgment, protectionism would be bad for the world and bad for our
    country.
        We're opening up--we sent our man to Doha to commit to the next
    round of the World Trade Organization. And unlike Seattle, where it all
    fell apart, we were able to--``we'' being those of us in the world who
    support free trade--were able to move the process farther down the line.
    And I will continue to work for free trade. It's in our Nation's
    interests and the world's interests that we trade. It's in the
    developing world's interest that there be trade. And our country is--
    we've got what's called AGOA, agreement with the African countries. I'm
    working on a free trade agreement with Central Americans. I'd like to
    see a free trade agreement from Canada all the way down to Argentina.
        As I say, there's protectionist tendencies that occasionally rise
    up. We've just got to convince our respective people that trade is in
    their interests.

     Russia-U.S. Relations

        Q. There is another President you have such a good relationship;
    it's President Putin.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. Very good working relationship, on terrorism, on oil. But there
    is this feeling also this is in cost of some human rights, human rights
    in Chechnya, press freedom in Russia--it's overlooked now--and probably
    some freedom of some other Russian republics. Don't you worry that this
    close relationship is putting your--raising other problems?
        The President. No, a close relationship with Putin allows me to make the case that, on media freedom,
    for example--as a matter of fact, on my last trip there, I urged him to
    interface with media entrepreneurs from America to understand how free
    press actually works, something that they're not very used to in Russia.
    And so there have been dialog interchanges now with some of our media
    executives. And I do push Vladimir Putin on the need to have open media
    and open his media.
        And secondly, in terms of Chechnya, I'm constantly talking to
    Vladimir Putin about relations with Chechnya
    and understanding and supporting minority rights. The other issue that
    is very important, to which we do not turn a blind eye, and which I'm
    deeply concerned, not only about minority rights, is proliferation,
    matters of proliferation. I think we're making some progress there.
        The immediate concern was proliferation to Iran, and I brought that
    up with Vladimir every time I visited with
    him. It's a very important issue that he understand that an armed Iran
    could be very dangerous to his own country, much less to our friends the
    Israelis or America, itself. And we've had some very important exchanges
    on that.
        In terms of helping make Russia a more secure place, we're working
    on what they call 10-plus-10-over-10: $10 billion from the U.S., $10
    billion from Europe over 10 years to help secure some weapons
    stockpiles. Vladimir is very interested in
    working with us to decommission some of his nuclear submarines to make
    Russia and the world more safe.
        In other words, my only point to you is, is that by being closer to
    Russia, we're able to deal more directly with some of the thorny issues
    that could separate us and could in fact make the West less likely to
    deal with Russia.

    [[Page 1233]]

        And we've got another issues at home here that has upset a lot of
    our people, and that's chickens. Fortunately, we're arguing over
    chickens and not over war, over chickens and not over missiles, like we
    used to. But a lot of people here feel like there was a commitment made
    to let U.S. chickens into Russia. And they started moving into Russia,
    and all of a sudden they stopped moving into Russia. And so I've been--
    so whether it be trade or minority rights or press, our relations are
    such that we're able to bring those up in a very frank and forthright
    way and yet still moved a very important relationship forward.
        Look, friends don't always agree, but friends are more likely to be
    able to work things out than enemies. As a matter of fact, in the old
    days, if there was a disagreement between enemies, that could lead to
    war. And there won't be a war between Russia and the United States.

    Situation in the Middle East

        Q. Mr. President, a question on another very easy subject, the
    Middle East crisis.
        The President. Yes. [Laughter]
        Q. What solution do you see to the crisis, and what compromise do
    you expect from both sides?
        The President. Yes, that's a very good question. First, I do believe
    that we can achieve a vision of two states living side by side, at peace
    with each other. And that's the vision, and that's what all policy must
    aim toward. It starts with understanding that it's going to be
    impossible to achieve that vision if terrorists are allowed to have a
    free run and blow up the process.
        An incredibly important step toward the vision of two states living
    side by side is for the international community, including the Arab
    world, to work with us to develop the institutions necessary for the
    emergence of a Palestinian state that will be transparent; it will
    respect rule of law; it will have a constitution that will allow for a
    sharing-of-power arrangement; that will have institutions that outlast--
    are far more important than any single one person.
        And we're in the process of working toward that end. Colin
    Powell will be meeting with what the call
    the Quad in New York. Foreign Ministers from the Arab world will be
    coming as well, later on, to work on the step-by-step process toward the
    emergence of a Palestinian state. And I repeat, that requires a
    constitution, a judiciary, transparency when it comes to financial
    conditions. And I believe there's financial aid available. I know there
    is.

    [At this point, the tape machine stopped.]

        The President. Something just ground to a halt. That thing had, what
    do we call it, a skidding halt. Sounded like it needs some new tires.
        Anyway, the international community wants to help with aid, but
    they're not going to help with aid if it's going to be stolen. Let's put
    it very bluntly. And so the----

    [The tape machine stopped again.]

        The President. ----the press conference has clearly gone too long.
    [Laughter]
        So we're working to get these institutions in place. Obviously as
    security improves, Israel is going to have to, as I said, pull her
    troops back to September of 2001--2000 levels. In other words--not
    levels but geographic--within geographic boundaries of September 2000.
    They're going to have to deal with the settlements. In other words, all
    parties have got responsibilities. The Arab world has got
    responsibilities, by the way, as well, to help on the development of a
    security force necessary--a security force, by the way, which must exist
    to enforce security, not enhance the status of a single person.
        So we're making progress. It requires a international commitment and
    a focus on a positive end, which is two states living side by side in
    peace. As I said, I'm an optimistic fellow and believe that if we stay
    at it and keep working hard, we can get

    [[Page 1234]]

    there. But there's no question in my mind, as I said in my speech in the
    Rose Garden recently, that there's going to be some setbacks. But our
    Nation is committed to a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
        All right, well, thank you all.

    Note: The interview began at 10:55 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House. The transcript was released by the Office of the Press
    Secretary on July 15. In his remarks, the President referred to
    President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland, and his wife, Jolanta
    Kwasniewska; and President Vladimir Putin of Russia. The President also
    referred to MAP, the Military Assistance Program; AGOA, the African
    Growth and Opportunity Act; and the Quartet, a Middle East policy
    planning group consisting of representatives from the United States, the
    United Nations, Russia, and the European Union. A tape was not available
    for verification of the content of this interview.