    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book I)]
    [March 19, 2002]
    [Pages 440-451]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Latin American and American Spanish Language Journalists
    March 19, 2002

    Visit to Latin America

        The President. I'm going to give you an opening statement. But first
    of all, these observers are simply that.
        Q. They're not going to take one question.
        The President. They get no questions. They're here just to listen to
    your questions and my answers. They probably will like your questions
    and not like my answers. [Laughter]
        Anyway, let me talk about the trip from my perspective, and we'll
    kind of rotate

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    around. Everybody will get at least one question; hopefully everybody
    will get two.
        First, I'm looking forward to my trip. Obviously, one of the main
    purposes of the trip is to go speak about development, world
    development, in Monterrey. I will lay out there for the world leaders
    what--I already did so in our country--which is the Millennium Challenge
    Fund, of a fund that will ultimately be $5 billion a year. It starts at
    $1.5 billion, roughly $1.5 billion, and then will go up to about two-
    thirds of $5 billion, and then will be at $5 billion in year three and
    will remain at $5 billion.
        And that fund will be used to encourage--first of all, it will say
    our country assumes our rightful responsibility to help developing
    nations, but we expect there to be rightful obligations on those who
    receive them to make sure that there's an education system that works, a
    health care system that works, an opportunity for development of an
    entrepreneurial class or small businesses, foster trade between
    ourselves. And countries that practice good habits will get money. Now,
    this is on top of roughly $10 billion which we spend already in direct
    development aid, not including other projects, assistance to the World
    Bank organizations, et cetera.
        Also, I'm really looking forward to seeing my friend the President
    of Mexico. He was my friend prior to September
    the 11th; he was my friend after September the 11th; he'll be my friend
    for a long period of time because I know him well. I respect him a lot.
    We've got a very good relationship, and obviously, we've got a very
    important bilateral relationship.
        So we're going to have a--we'll have a discussion about issues that
    are common issues. Obviously, the border is a common issue, how to make
    the border work better, looking at a variety of options as to how to
    modernize the border between Mexico and the United States, as well as
    the border between Canada and the United States.
        I'll discuss some ideas with him. We'll
    continue to talk about migration, the need to make sure that people are
    treated with respect when they come to this country; that I strongly
    believe that we need to pass what we call 245(i) here. The House has
    done so; the Senate hasn't done anything yet. And I'd like to get that
    done quickly. We're urging the Senate to move and to get this bill
    passed.
        And we've got a lot of discussions about commercial relations and
    law enforcement relations. We've got great cooperation. I've been very
    impressed by the dialog that we've had. It was a good dialog before the
    attacks; it's been a good dialog after.
        Then we go down to Peru. I'm looking forward to seeing President
    Toledo. He is a leader dedicated to
    democracy and reform. I'm really looking forward to being in Lima. I've
    never been there. It's going to be an exciting trip for me and mi
    esposa. And it will not only give me a chance to
    have a good bilateral discussion with el Presidente on a variety of
    subjects, not the least of which will be counternarcotics cooperation,
    trade. I'm very concerned about opening markets in the United States.
    We'll talk to him about that.
        And then we'll be meeting with other leaders from the Andean trade
    pact. And I look forward to meeting them as well. I've known most of
    them before. This will be the third or fourth time I've seen President
    Toledo, so I've got a familiar relationship
    with him.
        And then off to El Salvador to discuss a free trade agreement with
    the Central American countries and to see my friend President
    Flores, who is really one of the
    bright young leaders. I admire him a lot and respect him a lot. So I
    look forward to discussing--the main discussion in Central America will
    be trade, will be the focus on how to enhance prosperity.
        The main discussions with the Andean countries will be trade plus,
    obviously, the issue of drugs, drogas. I will remind all countries,
    however, that our Nation has got to do a better job of suppressing
    demand. In order to make sure that we're effective

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    in dealing with the Andean nations, with the issue of borders, safe
    borders with Mexico--so long as we've got people using drugs in America,
    somebody is going to provide them. And it's likely they're going to come
    from our neighbors. So we've got a big obligation at home as well. I
    want to make that clear to the leaders and the people as well.
        So this is going to be an exciting trip. I said when I first got
    elected that good relations in the neighborhood, in our own
    neighborhood, is the cornerstone of a good foreign policy. I meant that.
    My first trip as President was to Mexico. I continue to stay very much
    involved in the neighborhood, and so I'm looking forward to the trip.

    Trade Promotion Authority

        Q. Yes, Mr. President. In your trip to Mexico City, you're talking
    about----
        The President. Mexico City, do you mean Monterrey?
        Q. I'm sorry, Monterrey.
        The President. I was going to say, have we got another trip, and
    they forgot to tell me? [Laughter]
        Q. When you're talking about trade, you obviously know that the
    whole issue of fast track hasn't gone anywhere here in the Senate. Do
    you see that----
        The President. In the Senate? Yes.
        Q. And in Congress, itself.
        The President. Well, the House passed it, remember?
        Q. Right.
        The President. We got it out of the House, which a lot of people
    didn't think we were going to be able to do.
        Q. So as far as trade conversations down there, do you see that as a
    problem?
        The President. No, I don't. I see it--I will remind them that we'll
    continue to work hard with the Senate. I'll remind them of some of the
    language of some of the Senators that do believe that we ought to have a
    free trade agreement. We ought to extend the Andean Trade Preference
    Act, which I will continue to push and won't happen prior to my leaving.
    I'm going in 2 days. But nevertheless, we're confident we can get that
    done.
        I will also remind them trade promotion authority passed the House.
    A lot of people thought that was a higher hurdle than the Senate. The
    Senate leadership has said that they're going to bring this bill up. I
    don't know the timing of it yet, but we're going to push hard to get it
    done as soon as possible. It is an important issue to a lot of Senators,
    and I think I'll get it done. So I'll talk about that. Obviously, we
    have an obligation at home to get TPA passed, and we're halfway there.
        And then we'll also talk about free trade in the Americas, as well
    as the Central American--the trade negotiations. I'll be talking about
    Chile, starting with the free trade agreement with Chile. We think we
    can get that done this year as well.
        So there is a lot of positive progress. And I'll remind them that on
    the decision I made on steel, I honored the agreements and the
    commitments of NAFTA and the free trade agreement. And so, as a result,
    Canada and Mexico were excluded from the agreement, as are most
    developing nations. And the only nation that's been affected is Brazil
    in our hemisphere, and only to the extent of about 12 percent of her
    steel production--or her exports.

    Assistance to Colombia

        Q. Mr. President, in Lima, you are going to meet with President
    Pastrana of Colombia.
        The President. Yes, I am.
        Q. While your administration is moving to increase the aid, the
    military aid to Colombia, to fight the foreign guerrillas--but according
    to the U.S. State Department, most of the drug trafficking--no, much of
    the drug trafficking problem and human rights violation is
    responsibility for the rightwing paramilitary group AUC. Aren't you
    afraid that your effort could not help to solve a big part of the
    problem?

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        The President. Am I afraid--I beg your pardon--afraid of the?
        Q. That you help the Colombian Government to fight the FARC----
        The President. Well, we expect them to fight all renegade and
    terrorist groups. We expect them to hold the line. I mean, we are not
    picking and choosing. We believe that AUC and FARC need to be--we need
    to focus on AUC and FARC, and the third group--I understand Mr.
    Pastrana is in discussions with them right
    now, and we'll see how that goes.
        And so we don't play favorites with terrorist groups and renegade
    groups. We believe there's equality, and they're equally bad. And so
    we're going to insist that we--not insist--we will offer help and aid,
    like we have done. Right now we're restricted by Congress to focus on
    narcotrafficking, and we believe that we will work--we need to work with
    Congress to help broaden the focus to counterterrorism. And we're more
    than willing to have those discussions with Congress. I've already done
    so.
        But I have always said that we'll stay within the confines of the
    law. We have no interest in committing ground troops, but we do want to
    help them, and we'll do so.

    Impact of Trade on Developing Countries

        Q. Mr. President, about this trade agreement with Central American
    countries--and I'm thinking specifically of El Salvador. How is your
    vision--how do you make these free trade agreements into benefits for
    the real people? I mean, in terms of development, what's your vision?
        The President. Well, I think people--first of all, the statistic I
    like to quote is that we buy $450 billion of goods from developing
    nations on an annual basis. I think that's the number I used the other
    day in my speech. That is 8 times more--and that, by the way, ends up--
    when you purchase goods, you're actually purchasing something that
    requires labor, and labor is a job. And so one of the focuses of this
    administration is how to put policies in place that enable people to
    work for a living. What is it--what is it we can do with each other? And
    trade equals jobs, as far as I'm concerned. And the trade figures, which
    really put money directly into the economies of countries with whom we
    trade, are significantly bigger than direct aid. And so it makes sense
    to promote trade.
        So the answer to your question--and I'm confident people in your
    fine country are asking, ``What good is it for me? How will this benefit
    me?'' And that's a legitimate question people ask. And the answer is,
    trade equals jobs. The more markets are open, the more trade there is,
    the more jobs available. And the President understands; President Flores understands that. And
    that is very important to understand. It is--the amount of capital that
    ends up flowing within the private sector in the country is
    significantly greater than any aid package could possibly be. And that's
    important for people to know. And that's why I think President Flores is
    excited about the idea of having this trade pact.
        And obviously, countries are going to have to put procedures in
    place that will allow for the orderly development of a private sector,
    rule of law, anticorruption measures. No one is going to do business if
    you get money stolen from you. There's got to be tightening of
    anticorruption measures. There's got to be a good education system. And
    part of the Millennium Challenge Fund will help developing nations
    develop an education system.
        One of the things we learned from northern Mexico--the trade--is
    that trade created a lot of job opportunity. And the job opportunity
    created training opportunities, which in itself was good education for
    many people. The border region of my State, while still poor, has
    changed significantly as a result of the trade policies. And Monterrey
    has blossomed into one of the great financial centers of the hemisphere
    because of trade.

    [[Page 444]]

        And so there's a lot of positive benefits for people. People talk
    about health care, and it's essential that we have good health care. But
    it's--a society that is generating wealth is one much more likely to
    provide good health care for her people. And there's a lot of benefits
    to trade. And so that's probably the most direct benefit to the people.

    Drug Interdiction/Intelligence

        Q. One small detail concerning what he asked you before. Is Peru,
    Colombia, and the United States talking about a place in an intelligence
    basement in the jungle of Colombia and Peru to fight narcotraffickers
    and----
        The President. Are we talking about--I can't get too specific about
    placements. Let me just put it to you this way: We're willing to
    cooperate to do as effective a job as we can on interdicting. I won't
    count that as a question.
        Q. You're already talking about it. And my question, please----
        The President. One of the things we don't discuss, at least in this
    administration, is intelligence matters. We don't want the enemy to have
    any sense about what we're thinking about doing, or where we may be
    going. So that does not count as a question.

    Fujimori Government Investigation

        Q. President Toledo will ask you to help him for the
    reclassification of documents concerning corruption and human rights
    violations in Fujimori's government. The CIA, especially----
        The President. FBI.
        Q. FBI and CIA also has some of the most important documents, we
    think, concerning the Vladimiro Montesinos. How long are we going to
    have to wait to know what those documents have?
        The President. Well, actually, we're cooperating very closely. I
    think he would say that we've had great
    cooperation with the Peruvian Government. There has been significant
    cooperation. As a matter of fact, it led to the significant arrest, as
    you may remember. And I will be very candid with him and talk about
    matters of sharing information. We're not--again, I don't know a
    specific document you're talking to. But I can tell you the history has
    been positive up to now. Otherwise the arrest--I can't remember the
    fellow's name. You know him more than me, Fujimori's close----
        Q. Vladimiro Montesinos?
        The President. Yes. That was the result of our cooperation, if I'm
    not mistaken.
        Q. How was it?
        The President. What?
        Q. How was it?
        The President. How was the result?
        Q. Yes.
        The President. Well, we shared a lot of information in order to make
    the case, if I'm not mistaken. The Ambassador here was very much
    involved with that. And I think that history will show when the facts
    come out that this man wouldn't have
    been arrested without the close cooperation of the U.S. Government.

    Mexico-U.S. Border Issues

        Q. Sir, the Washington Post runs a story today that--about the
    creation of a new border agency that will merge Customs, the INS, and
    the Border Patrol.
        The President. Don't believe everything you read in the paper.
    [Laughter]
        Q. Okay. [Laughter]
        The President. That's off the record, of course. No, put it in
    there. It will make me a hero. [Laughter]
        Q. I know that the--at least the border issue will be a main topic
    on Friday's bilateral reunion with President Fox. What will a reinforced
    U.S.-Mexican border mean for each country?
        The President. Yes, let me talk about--first of all, I'm exploring
    all options to make our borders more secure and more modern. And so what
    does that mean with Mexico? Well, first of all, I recognize the--of all
    people, I recognize, since I was the Governor of Texas, I know how much
    traffic

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    goes across that border on a daily basis and how much of that traffic
    stays within the region. I mean, we've got aunts and uncles visiting
    their nephews and nieces and have been doing it for generations. And
    therefore, a smart border policy is one that recognizes customs and
    habits and the history; as a matter of fact, facilitates that flow, as
    opposed to prevents that flow of people; and recognizes that there is a
    unique relationship here and, therefore, there's got to be positive
    policies that do not impede those customs.
        Secondly, a smart border is one that recognizes that we've got
    traffic originating in the midst of our respective countries that can be
    inspected somewhere other than the border--get a good seal of approval
    from an inland port, say, and let that cargo, once it's inspected, once
    clear for travel, proceed directly to a port or a destination in Mexico
    or the United States or vice versa, so that the traffic moves more
    expeditiously through the border. It's a smart border initiative. It's
    one that recognizes the amount of commerce. You go down to Laredo, like
    I have, and you've got miles and miles of trucks. The system is
    antiquated; it is outdated. It needs to be modernized for the good of
    both countries.
        Third, border security means more manpower and effective
    coordination to crack down on ``coyotes.'' The worst kind of smuggling,
    in my judgment, is people smuggling. And as you well know, there has
    been a lot of that, and there's been a lot of tragedy as a result of
    poor, hard-working Mexicans, looking for a job, ending up in the back of
    somebody's truck in terrible weather, in horrible conditions, because of
    ``coyotes.'' And we've got to do a better job. And when we crack down on
    the ``coyotes,'' we've also been pretty darn effective at the same time
    about cracking down on smuggling, on both ways, I might add.
        We need to be effective with biometrics. That will not only
    facilitate the common flow, the daily flow of traffic; it will also help
    us deal with those who are coming into the country illegally and/or
    register those who are coming illegally for extended periods of time. So
    there's a lot we can do.
        How best to effect that is what I'm looking at within the
    administration. I'm looking at a variety of options, because I want our
    borders to be modern and secure and recognize the great vitality between
    our respective countries. We've had good dialog, by the way, with the
    Fox administration, as have we had with the
    Chretien administration. And I think people
    are beginning to realize that we're serious about--both sides, or all
    three of us, are serious about working collaterally to make our borders
    work better.

    Immigration and Border Security Legislation

        Q. As far as the 245(i), how confident are you that the Senate will
    move on it?
        The President. Well, I'm not confident they'll move on it; I'm
    confident we've got the votes. But the problem is, I haven't been
    confident that they're going to move on many things these days. We've
    gotten a lot of bills out of the House and not much out of the Senate.
    And so that's why--I just finished my Cabinet meeting and made a direct
    call to the Senate to get 245(i) passed. They're dealing with other
    matters. Campaign funding reform is up, and they've still got an energy
    bill moving around.
        Q. Because there's also a deadline for the program to end.
        The President. No, I know. Trust me, I'm a big 245(i) backer. And I
    remember, as I recall, some in the Senate and the House went down to
    Mexico and talked to President Fox about a
    modern immigration policy. And I just hope that they're able to live up
    to their--kind of their implied promise or explicit promise they told
    the Mexican people when they went down there.

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    Venezuela

        Q. Mr. President, in your trip to Lima, you're going to meet the
    Andean Presidents but not the Venezuelan President.
        The President. That's right.
        Q. As your spokesman tells us almost every day----
        The President. He mentioned it? [Laughter]
        Q. Yes. Your administration are--your administration is not happy
    with Mr. Chavez's trips, Mr. Chavez's friends. What should the current
    Venezuelan administration do to--in order to be closer to your--maybe
    get a meeting? Or thinking about the recent political unrest in
    Venezuela, are you worried that there could be some--the situation could
    be worse?
        The President. Well, let me see here. First, Venezuela is not a part
    of the Andean trade group. Secondly, the President has spoken out
    against free trade agreements. And since this is going to be mainly a
    discussion--other than my bilateral with President Toledo--a discussion about trade, that it doesn't
    seem to make sense to have him a part of those discussions. Why have
    somebody there who's not in favor of what we're all trying to do?
        Secondly, we are concerned about Venezuela. We've had longtime
    connections with the Venezuelan people, have a great respect for the
    Venezuelan people. We've got a commercial relationship with the
    Venezuelans for years, and that obviously is in the energy sector. And
    we are concerned anytime there is unrest in our neighborhood, and we're
    watching the situation very carefully.
        This man was elected by the people. We respect democracy in our
    country, and we hope that he respects those institutions, the democratic
    institutions within his country.

    Temporary Protected Status Extension

        Q. Mr. President, as you might or might not be aware, there are 6
    million Salvadorans living inside our country.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. And 2 million and a half living outside, mostly in the United
    States. What could we expect in terms of migrations? Are you--also the
    announcement of the TPS extension for Salvadorans?
        The President. I won't be making that announcement there. But as you
    may remember, I supported the TPS extension last time around. It does
    not come up until September of this year, if I'm not mistaken. I will
    take it under advisement. But the last time it came up, I was strongly
    in support.
        Let me just give you my view generally about immigration. There are
    people in our neighborhood who hurt--a mom or a dad who worry about
    whether or not their children eat--and I have great sympathy for those
    folks. And many come to our country to work. I used to remind people
    that family values did not stop at the Rio Bravo. There's a lot of
    parents who deeply care about whether or not their families can survive
    and are willing to take a risk to come long distances to find work. And
    it turns out that a place that had been looking for workers for a period
    of time was the United States. The economy was strong. There were a lot
    of jobs that others wouldn't do, what people were willing to do, and
    they came here.
        And my attitude is that we ought to have a program, figure out a
    program that will match a willing employer with a willing employee and
    make that a part of a legal process. In other words, if you're willing
    to work and somebody is looking for a job, that we make that easier
    rather than harder to accomplish.
        And that's not the case in the law today. It's hard to legally hire
    somebody. And I think we can--that's going to be a discussion I must
    have with Members of our United States Congress and obviously with the
    President of Mexico, for starters. This is going to take a while to
    accomplish, but it's--to me, it's a commonsense way to approach the
    migration issue.

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        How that affects the people here from El Salvador, some legal and
    some illegal, it's hard to tell.
        Q. So just to be sure, so you're not making any announcement in
    terms of migration in El Salvador?
        The President. No, I'm not. But I will remind people, if asked, of
    course, that I was for TPS the last time around.

    Peru/Hemispheric Democracy

        Q. Not only Venezuela but also Argentina and Colombia and Brazil is
    doing its own way, but South America is going through a very special
    moment now. Are you looking in Peru a new ally closer to the United
    States to go to the South American region?
        The President. Well, that's very interesting. First of all, I'm
    going to Peru because I do view Peru as an ally and a friend. I'm the
    first United States sitting President to have ever gone to Peru. And I
    welcome the reforms in Peru, and I welcome the fact that President
    Toledo is taking a very firm stand on
    reforming and anticorruption. And he was elected through the democratic
    process, which is important.
        And interestingly enough, all but one nation in our hemisphere has
    got a democratically elected President. Cuba is the only country that
    does not have a democratically elected President. That is a significant
    change, if you think about it, in the history of our hemisphere, an
    amazing change to the better.
        We just had elections in Central America, the neighbors of El
    Salvador. And the neighborhood there has had two elections, good, clean
    elections, where reformers and advocates for the open market and trade
    were elected. And I'm looking forward--I've met them prior to their
    swearing-in. I look forward to seeing them again when I'm down there.
        Brazil, obviously, is fixing to have an election. Colombia is going
    to have an election soon. It will be very interesting to see how that
    election plays out. Obviously, the security of the people will be an
    issue in that election. I think that happens in May, if I'm not
    mistaken.
        So there's an ongoing--to me, it's a--the system--and Mexico, of
    course, was one where, you know, the PAN wins, and all of a sudden it
    shows the maturity of the democratic process. And I think this is
    incredibly positive results for our hemisphere. Not everything is going
    to be smooth all the time, but so long as leaders and the people demand
    democracy, there will be more freedom and more opportunity and more hope
    than in societies that will be closed and will frighten their neighbors.
        Argentina is a financial issue. Argentina has got a longstanding
    democracy. And it's an issue of great concern for us, because we're
    friends with Argentina and we're partners with Argentina. And we are
    hoping that Argentina will make the necessary reforms, the tough
    decisions necessary to earn the confidence of some of these
    international financial institutions but most particularly the IMF. I
    know that I've talked to my friend the President of Spain a lot, because the Spanish banks are quite exposed in
    Argentina. They've got more exposure than any banks in the world, and
    we're second. So we're interested, but we're more interested in the
    people, themselves.
        So we've spent, in our administration, a lot of time focusing on
    Argentina. So I'm concerned about that; on the other hand, I know that
    there is a way out, and the country itself is going to have to make some
    tough calls, starting with reforming the relationship between the States
    and their budgets and the central government.
        But we'll see what happens. I'm optimistic about our hemisphere. I
    think it's been--I think there's some really great years ahead of us.
    And the reason I am is because I've watched some of these elections very
    closely, and I think the outcomes have been--they've embraced giving the
    people an opportunity to express themselves.

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    U.N. Commission on Human Rights/Cuba

        Q. You mentioned Cuba.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. It is said that you are going to ask President Toledo to vote
    against Cuba in the United Nations Human Rights Committee meetings?
        The President. Well, I wouldn't say ``voting against.'' I'm just
    going to remind the Human Rights Commission to remember that Cuba is an
    incredibly repressive regime. It's the one nondemocratic government.
    They put people in prison if they don't agree with you. I mean, that to
    me is a violation of people's human rights. I mean, there's no rule of
    law there. It's the rule of one person. He's
    been there for a long period of time, and unfortunately the people of
    that country are suffering as a result of him.
        So it's a vote for liberty and freedom, and that's something Mr.
    Castro doesn't believe in. For example, there's
    not a lot of free press there, to put it in your lap, as we say.
        Last question.

    Millennium Challenge Fund

        Q. Okay. Today's main story in our newspaper in Mexico, as part of
    the international conference in Monterrey, was the U.S. opposition--
    well, it was Alan Larson's opposition----
        The President. Who?
        Q. Alan Larson?
        The President. Alan Larson?
        NSC Senior Director Maisto. Under
    Secretary for Economic Affairs.
        The President. Oh, okay.
        Q. Okay. You do know him, okay. [Laughter]
        The President. I've got a big administration. [Laughter]
        Q. He was speaking on the----
        The President. Well, I don't know if I know him or not. Depends on what he said. [Laughter]
        Q. Okay, now I'm going to rethink the question first----
        The President. The real question is, will he
    know me after what he said? But anyway, go ahead. What's Al's position,
    and what's the subject? [Laughter]
        Q. Well, the story was on the United States opposition to aid
    quotas. Is it----
        The President. To what quotas?
        Q. Aid, quotas for aid.
        The President. Aid quotas?
        Q. Aid, to help developing countries.
        The President. Oh, yes. Okay, yes.
        Q. And it's----
        The President. He and I are in the same
    position. Al still has a job. [Laughter]
        Q. That's good. The conference started yesterday, and is it expected
    that every developed country decides on its own how and how much to
    help, if----
        The President. Now, here's the thing. You can't--it's an arbitrary
    measurement that I frankly don't think reflects the great compassion of
    the United States. People are able to adopt whatever formula they think
    is necessary to be generous. But these formulas often times don't
    measure how much a nation is contributing, like our nation is
    contributing.
        And I think a better way to go, and the way we are going to go, is
    through this Millennium Challenge Fund, where we're laying out a $5-
    billion-a-year commitment. Now, that starts 3 years from now, so--I just
    want to make sure everybody understands the funding. I know there's a
    little confusion about what--a third of it, which is more than $1.5
    billion, it's a little less than $1.7 billion--$1.66667 billion--and
    then two-thirds, and then----
        Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. Could be,
    it's going to be--be determined exactly.
        The President. Anyway, it'll be up to $5 billion at the end of 3
    years. [Laughter]
        Larson? [Laughter] Anyway--no, you're
    Fleischer.
        Five billion at the end of 3 years, $5 billion the fourth year, $5
    billion the sixth year, okay?

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        This is a better way to go. As I said earlier, that it is an
    obligation we take seriously, and by the way, this is on top of that
    which we already do. It doesn't include monies, for example, to make the
    world more secure. It's hard to have economic development if you're
    being terrorized. And one of the obligations that we take seriously is
    the obligation to rid the world of terror. And we don't mind leading
    this coalition, and we are spending the most money to do so--which is
    fine. We're happy to do that. We will defend freedom.
        My only point is, there's a lot of ways to contribute. We're a big
    contributor to the World Bank, significant contributor to the IMF. We
    contribute in a variety of ways--the United Nations, which is a large
    contributor, and there's a variety. So do other nations--don't get me
    wrong. I'm not saying we're the only ones doing this. I'm just saying
    that the best way for us to proceed, the most comfortable I am, is to
    make the commitment I have made through this Millennium Challenge Fund--
    which is a reform to the current process, because on the one hand we're
    saying we have responsibilities; we'll uphold those responsibilities.
    But there is a responsibility from the country that receives money as
    well, a responsibility to the people, a responsibility to rout out
    corruption.
        I think it makes no sense to give aid, money, to countries that are
    corrupt. Because you know what happens? The money doesn't help the
    people; it helps an elite group of leaders. And that's not fair to the
    people of this particular country, nor is it fair to the taxpayers in
    the United States.
        So I believe it's time to bring a measure of accountability into
    this process, and I'm going to be very strong about it in Monterrey. I
    don't subscribe to the theory that certain countries cannot reform, and
    therefore we must give them money anyway. I don't buy that. I believe
    everybody can have basic rule of law and can respect the citizens who
    live there. Everybody should be able to focus on educating their
    children and have good health care policy.
        And so this millennium fund is going to be focusing not only on
    enhancing trade and the practices that lead to good trade policy--and
    again, I'll repeat, if a nation is worried about developing, a nation
    can receive a heck of a lot more help, private capital, aid--not in the
    normal sense but help--through trade. It happens every time. And so the
    best practices, it seems like to me, the best way to foster what we all
    would hope for, which is a healthy, well-educated, prosperous world, is
    to encourage trade and the habits that lead to trade and the habits that
    lead to marketplace.
        And again, I repeat, there's got to be good government practices
    attributed to that. And I'm going to be tough about it. I'm not
    interested in funding corruption, period. And if a country thinks
    they're going to get aid from the United States and they're stealing
    money, they're just not going to get it out of this millennium fund--and
    hopefully not out of any fund.
        And then we expect nations to develop practices that will help the
    people directly, like good education. I'm the first leader who stood up
    and said that the World Bank ought to have 50 percent of the money they
    distribute in the form of grants, not loans--grants to help education
    and health flourish in developing nations. I think it would be a lot
    better than, you know, loaning money that in many circumstances can't be
    repaid. It's hard to get a rate of return in the financial sense on an
    education system. But you can get a huge rate of return on the capital
    of human capital, by a good education system.
        So I'm for grants, not loans, for 50 percent of the money coming out
    of the World Bank. I think there's a lot of people down there in
    Monterrey that--you know, I didn't hear a lot of thunderous applause on
    it, but it's the right thing to do.

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        And so I'm not afraid of taking a lead. And I'm going to lead on
    this issue, because I feel strongly that for our taxpayers to be
    comfortable with money being spent, there's got to be something, there's
    got to be an effort made--a true, honest effort made to improve the
    plight of the people we're trying to help.
        And I'm optimistic about all this. We've got some terrible problems
    in the world. I'm deeply disturbed about the AIDS crisis. It is a
    significant, significant issue in Africa, obviously. There's a place
    where we've put up a half a billion dollars to begin. And when I see a
    strategy, a focused strategy that will yield results, then we'll be
    willing to work with Congress to put more money in.
        But I want to see--and we didn't mind; we're happy to take the lead
    in starting to seed the fund. But now, it's time to see whether or not
    there can be a strategy in place that will actually work. And when we
    see something working--and we'd like to help--but when we see something
    working, we'll be an enthusiastic backer. But if it doesn't work, it's
    time--it's time--to hold people accountable. And that's exactly what my
    message is going to be in Monterrey. I'm looking forward to giving--I'm
    sorry. I've got to go. [Laughter]
        Q. I will wait and see.
        The President. Tengo que salir. You'd better yell loud, because I
    can't hold this pack back. [Laughter] They'll be up there yelling and
    elbowing and screaming out questions. You watch; they're a very
    aggressive lot back there.

    Possible Caribbean Visit

        Q. Mr. President, do you envision going to the Caribbean soon at all
    or doing the same kind of thing that you're doing in Central and South
    America?
        The President. Quizas, quizas.

    President Eduardo Alberto Duhalde of
    Argentina

        Q. Mr. President, are you going to see President Duhalde of
    Argentina, do you know? Is he on your schedule, do you know?
        The President. I don't know. Oh, you mean in Monterrey?
        Q. Yes, sir, on this trip.
        The President. I imagine I'll see him. We're having a dinner,
    leaders' dinner only, if I'm not mistaken.
        Q. Yes. A luncheon.
        The President. Luncheon. Almuerzo.
        Thank you all.

    Note: The interview began at 3:30 p.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House. In his remarks, the President referred to President Vicente
    Fox of Mexico; President Alejandro Toledo of Peru; President Francisco
    Flores of El Salvador; President Andres Pastrana of Colombia; former
    President Alberto Fujimori of Peru and his adviser Vladimiro Montesinos;
    Prime Minister Jean Chretien of Canada; President Hugo Chavez of
    Venezuela; President Jose Maria Aznar of Spain; and President Fidel
    Castro of Cuba. He also referred to section 245(i) of the Immigration
    and Nationality Act, which expired April 30, 2001; AUC, the United Self-
    Defense Forces/Group of Colombia; FARC, the Revolutionary Armed Forces
    of Colombia; and PAN, the National Action Party in Mexico. This
    interview was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on March 20.
    A tape was not available for verification of the content of this
    interview.

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