    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George W. Bush (2002, Book I)]
    [May 21, 2002]
    [Pages 836-844]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With European Journalists
    May 21, 2002

        The President. I have a couple comments, and I'll answer some
    questions, obviously.
        This is a trip that I've been looking forward to. I've never been to
    Germany; I'm looking forward to it. I've prepared a speech to the
    Bundestag, which is going to be a very interesting opportunity for me to
    talk about a very important relationship.
        In my speech I'm going to refer to my trip to Russia as well, about
    how I view this as an opportunity--my trip to Russia and Germany and
    France and eventually Italy--as a way to confirm the importance of our
    relationship bilaterally as well as institutions like NATO but as a way
    to talk about how welcoming Russia, Russia's vision into the West is
    important for all of us.
        I look forward to my bilaterals with Gerhard Schroeder. We've got a good relationship. I look forward to my
    bilaterals with Jacques and Prime Minister
    Berlusconi, who is--three friends. As you
    know, I rely upon personal diplomacy a lot. I think it's easy, when
    people find areas

    [[Page 837]]

    of mutual respect, to work together. I've got good relationships with
    all three and, of course, we've got good relationships with President
    Putin as well.
        Q. He's also a friend?
        The President. He is a friend; yes, he
    is, very much.
        I will talk in the bilaterals as well, of course, in my public
    addresses, about our need to continue to fight terrorism. You've seen
    our newspapers. You've seen members of my administration, high-ranking
    members of my administration clearly talking about the potential threats
    and attacks on America. I will remind our friends that this war is far
    from over. I will praise the cooperation, because I believe it. I will
    talk to them about what we need to do to continue fighting for liberty
    and freedom.
        In my speeches--in discussions privately and in my public speeches,
    I will also remind us that we want the world to be not only more secure
    but a better world. I'll explain the Millennium Challenge Fund that I
    laid out in Monterrey, and I'll talk about some of it publicly in the
    Bundestag as well.
        I think this is an opportunity--I view this as a great opportunity
    for those of us who are in positions of responsibility to defend our
    freedoms and to work collaboratively to make the world a better place,
    improve the human condition. So I'm looking forward to it. It's going to
    be an interesting experience.
        I'm looking forward to going to Normandy on Memorial Day. It's going
    to be a very dramatic moment for the son of a World War II veteran. And
    I look forward to going to a church and a synagogue in Russia, Sunday. I
    look forward, as I said, going to the Bundestag. It's going to be a--
    it'll be a memorable event, to talk in front of the vast chamber with
    democratically elected members, some of whom who agree with what I
    believe in, some of whom don't--but all of them are free to express
    their minds.
        And then, of course, go to Paris--it's going to be a magnificent
    moment--then Rome, and then as well the ``at 20,'' the NATO confirmation
    of a new relationship with Russia.
        But anyway, this is going to be a good trip. I sent the best advance
    team I can send, and that is the First Lady--
    [laughter]--preparing my way.
        So why don't we go around and answer some questions? Who would like
    to start?

    Europe-U.S. Relationship

        Q. Mr. President.
        The President. Yes, sir.
        Q. You are by now an experienced European traveler, so I would like
    to ask you, is there something wrong with the U.S.-European relationship
    in terms of a growing psychological, military, technological gap? Is
    there something that is worrying you and that you hear from your friends
    that is worrying them?
        The President. Well, first, I recognize that there are more ties
    that bind us than don't. You see, when you love freedom, that's a
    powerful tie. The German people, the French, Russians, and the Italians,
    like Americans, love freedom. And so do I, a lot. And that's what binds
    us. We've got values that bind us: rule of law, constitutions,
    marketplace, the rule of the marketplace. These are common values that
    make us bound together.
        We've got common problems that we must solve that are also greater
    than any dispute that may arise. I mean, listen, fighting for terror is
    a common cause that is a powerful force that unites us.
        So I think the relationship is a strong relationship, and it's a
    healthy relationship. And of course there are disagreements at times. We
    have trade disagreements, but that's because we've got a lot of trade;
    we've got $2 trillion of trade a year. If we didn't have any trade,
    there would be no disagreements. But that's normal; that's in the normal
    course of business. And I certainly do not let that affect my way of

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    how I view this incredibly important alliance and relationships.
        So I'm--I go to Europe feeling optimistic about our relationships
    and feeling optimistic about our capacities to work together to solve
    problems.

    Russia

        Q. Mr. President, some American political scientists would prefer to
    see Russia in the future as undeveloped.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. As a strong developer----
        The President. Pay attention to him.
        Q. ----they became a significant competitor for the U.S.A. However,
    a poor and a bitter country would be even more dangerous.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. How do you, Mr. President, see Russia in the near future?
        The President. Well, first of all, it's the same issue that relates
    to the European Union and America as well as Russia and America. We want
    healthy competition. We want our friends to be strong and competitive.
    We want the economies to grow. I think it's essential for American
    policymakers to recognize that a healthy Europe and a healthy Russia is
    in our Nation's interests. It makes it easier; for example, a healthy
    economy makes it more likely that a friendship will develop in a more
    significant way.
        And so my message to the Russian people, as well as to here at home,
    is that it is important that Russia be viewed as a friend, not as an
    enemy. I said that right off the bat; that was my stated goal as a
    President, is to work with Russia as a friend, not as an enemy. I was
    able in Slovenia to realize that was possible when I visited with
    President Putin. And this head of his bureau
    there, or whatever you want to call the guy, asked me the question,
    first question: Do you trust Putin?
        Yes. I answered that several months ago when--what's the boy's name?
    Fournier [Ron Fournier, Associated Press] is his name--please, please,
    scratch that from the--[laughter]--scratch that from the notes.
        They said, ``How do you know?'' I said, ``I looked into his eyes and was able to glimpse into his soul.'' See,
    and I've been proven right. I do trust him because I believe he cares
    deeply about moving forward. There's so much that can be done in the
    spirit of friendship, together. And that's how I view--that's--and we've
    got a lot of problems.
        We've got AIDS ravishing an entire continent. Well, imagine, here we
    are, we're all representative of relatively wealthy nations--hopefully,
    Russia's wealth will increase--and yet, we're confronted with a society
    that's being wiped out. And so one of the fundamental questions is how--
    what do we do? We've got nations, responsible nations--how do we respond
    to that?
        And I've got some ideas. As you know, we put a--anyway, my point to
    you is that we want Russia to succeed. We want Russia to be healthy. We
    want Russia, our partner now in fighting terrorism, to have the means to
    continue the fight. And I hope this trip will help, you know, assuage
    the doubts of some in Russia who--and in America--who like the old way
    of resentment and bitterness and hatred. Vladimir Putin and I are putting that behind us for the good of
    both peoples.
        Yes, sir.

    NATO

        Q. Mr. President, one of the main vehicles of the relationship
    between the U.S. and Europe is, of course, NATO.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. And we have many in Europe, and not only Europe, are wondering,
    is NATO doomed? Will it disappear at some point? And if not, what is the
    purpose of NATO in the coming years?
        The President. Well, that's a great question. NATO is more needed
    than ever in many ways. And let me explain it to you this way. The
    nature of the threats to us--

    [[Page 839]]

    and I say ``us'' collectively--has changed. And what we're learning is,
    it's the ability for nations to share information and to cut off
    finances, the ability for nations to deny safe haven, the ability for
    nations to keep these killers on the run that's going to make this war
    successful. And therefore, it's a collective effort in order to beat a
    terrorist network. And NATO is a collection of freedom-loving countries.
    Therefore, NATO must change its mission--not its mission, its focus and
    its capabilities in order to meet the threats that now face us.
        So I think NATO is very relevant. That is why in Prague, next fall,
    I will--depending upon the actions of applicant states--will follow
    through my speech I gave in Warsaw and will reiterate somewhat in
    Germany, that I see a Europe whole, free, at peace with itself. And NATO
    expansion is one way to achieve that.
        Now, I caution those who would read your articles to not take
    anything for granted when it comes to the NATO expansion. But I have
    been on record as one that has talked aggressively about expansion. The
    reason I do is because I understand the importance of NATO and the
    relevance of NATO.
        And we need to work within NATO to make sure that NATO has got the
    capacities to--to better use capabilities, define capabilities and
    strategies, make sure an expanded NATO is flawless and seamless in its
    capacity to advance against a new threat. So I think it's a very
    relevant part of the future, and I will say that in Germany, and to
    Jacques.
        Q. If I may have a followup on this----
        The President. Sure.
        Q. Are you worried by the gap in military capabilities, which is
    widening--and even, with your budget, will be widening more--between
    Europe and the U.S.?
        The President. I think that's an issue. I do think it's an issue. On
    the other hand, it's an issue that can be overcome with time.
        We're transforming our military or trying to transform our military
    rapidly. There's a few weapons systems that seem to keep popping up,
    even though they may have been doomed at one point. But that's part of
    the process. And--but we are transforming. And NATO must transform as
    well in order to meet the true threats. Russia is not a threat. Russia
    is not a threat to the West. And therefore, NATO must align its
    capabilities and its budgets to the new threat. And that's going to take
    awhile. I understand that.
        So I'm not in a--you know, I'm optimistic about NATO changing. I've
    talked to Lord Robertson about this issue. I
    will address it in my speech in Germany as well, about how to make sure
    NATO stays relevant as we head into the 21st century.
        But gaps can be closed, and gaps can be changed, particularly
    technological gaps, particularly among friends. And I'll repeat, I go to
    Europe as a friend, and someone with whom--someone who wants to work
    with Europe to achieve common objectives.
        And I will say this again: The war on terror requires significant
    cooperation. We're not fighting a nation that has got the capacity to
    move tanks. We're fighting a group of killers, international killers who
    hide in caves, who burrow in free societies, who are patient and tough
    and mean, and who want to destroy. And therefore, we must cooperate with
    each other; we must share intelligence; we must run down leads; we must
    interdict; we must arrest. And a great place to start is with a
    collection of freedom-loving countries, and that is NATO.
        Yes, sir?

    Russia

        Q. What is the Russia-NATO Council about? Does it give a say to
    Russia on NATO issues? And if not, what?
        The President. The ``at 20'' certainly does not give Russia any veto
    power over military actions. And that's important to know.

    [[Page 840]]

        However, it recognizes that Russia can be an important partner in a
    peaceful Europe by working, initially working with Russia on
    counterproliferation measures, terrorism measures, ways to address the
    new threats facing all of us.
        Russia faces the same threat that Italy, France, Germany, and
    America faces, and that is the threat of terrorism. It is important for
    your readers to know you face the threat, just like we face the threat.
    It may not seem so--it may not seem so. But I'm telling you the threat
    is real. President Putin understands that.
    Therefore, it makes--as do Europe leaders as well, I want you to know.
    And it, therefore, makes eminent sense to include Russia in a new
    relationship with NATO, and that's what we're going to confirm on the
    outskirts of Rome.

    Iraq and State-Supported Terrorism

        Q. Mr. President, would you say that Iraq, for the time being, is
    basically contained? Or do you think that there are urgent steps
    required to undertake against Saddam's plans with weapons of mass
    destruction?
        The President. Sure. I'm a patient man. And I am a deliberate man.
    But the word ``contain'' doesn't work if someone's got the capacity to
    deliver a weapon of mass destruction. How can you contain somebody when
    they've got the ability to blackmail or launch a weapon? And that is my
    deep concern.
        And I feel passionate about this concern, because I know the nature
    of the regime. And I know the potential threat that could come if this
    terrorist organization that we're hunting down teams up with--I'm not
    sure how you translate into German, but----
        Q. We'll find a way.
        The President. ----coordinate, allies with, coordinates with--uses
    these weapons of mass destruction to further their means as well. And
    I'm concerned about it.
        I know there's a lot of angst about my statements about these
    nations, but I have the responsibility to speak as clearly as I possibly
    can about how I view the nature of these regimes. And I will continue
    doing that.
        Q. Is that why the Vice President said that inspections are not
    really enough?
        The President. Well, we certainly hope that the Iraq Government will
    allow there to be full and open and unfettered inspections. We want to
    know. This is a man who's denied inspections
    for years. I wonder why. I think the world ought to ask, why won't you
    allow for inspections?
        Every time they talk about inspections, he's got a certain kind of
    caveats and strings, and won't let them--``You can't go here. You can't
    go there.'' So I think the Vice President was
    expressing some skepticism about the nature of the regime itself. And
    we'd like to see inspections, unfettered, whole, free inspections. We'd
    like these inspectors to go look where they want to look, just like
    Saddam Hussein agreed to do over a decade
    ago.
        Mr. Volk?

    Putin-Bush Relationship

        Q. Mr. President, can you please describe your relationship--I'm
    excited, therefore I'm reading. [Laughter] Can you please describe your
    relationship with President Vladimir Putin?
        The President. Yes.
        Q. How do you call each other during the informal session? What are
    the subjects of your conversation after official state session?
        The President. Well, I would call my relationship warm. I enjoy his
    company. He has got a good sense of humor, and I appreciate that. And he
    has kindly invited me to his house, and I'm looking forward to going.
        Our conversations will be about--here's a man who loves Russia, and
    he loves the Russian people. And he's deeply concerned about problems
    facing Russia. And a lot of times, even in the most informal gathering,
    he shares with me his deep concerns.

    [[Page 841]]

        He is a--he also is a man who worries about the threats that Russia
    faces. We share a common interest in this war on terror because Russia,
    herself, has been attacked; innocent people have lost life. And he's
    passionate on the subject, about protecting his homeland. And we share
    information about how best to do that. I mean, we ask questions as
    friends would ask questions: ``How are you doing this? Where are you
    doing that?''
        Q. How do you call him? Vladimir?
        The President. Oh, I call him Vladimir, yes.
        Q. Vladimir?
        The President. Yes. And he calls me George.
        Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. Jorzh.
        The President. But he's a--one of the interesting things we're going
    to do is go to St. Petersburg together and go on the barges and see the
    White Nights.
        Q. Do you know a couple of words in Russian?
        The President. No.
        Q. No?
        The President. Nyet. [Laughter] One. But I've got a Russian speaker
    with me, Senorita Arroz. ``Arroz'' means ``Rice.''

    Terrorist Alerts

        Q. Mr. President, the warnings which have been issued in the last
    days about terrorist threat, including what the Vice President said on
    Sunday--is it a kind of general notice to the American people that they
    must stay vigilant in the demands on the U.S. front? Or does it point
    out to any specific and imminent threat?
        The President. The FBI Director yesterday, I talked to him--he comes in every morning, by the way.
    So this subject--he came up this morning. He was talking about--he was
    speculating based upon a lot of intelligence that indicates that the Al
    Qaida is active, plotting, planning, you know, trying to hit us. So he
    was speculating. He basically said, ``Look, I wouldn't be surprised if
    there is another attack, and it's going to be difficult to stop them,''
    is what he said. The Vice President also
    reflected that attitude.
        Now, if and when we have a specific threat, you know, we--in other
    words, if I were to tell you that I know that there's a--thinking about
    an attack on a certain moment at a certain place, we would deal with
    that in a way that would obviously harden that site. We would put our
    assets in place to prevent that from happening. I doubt there'd be a lot
    of publicity. The people, obviously, whose lives could be affected would
    be informed, directly informed, as the country, as the Government
    deployed assets to react.
        These are very clever killers. And I refer to them as killers
    because that's what they are. They're out to kill, no other way to put
    it. And they--their communications are adept. And we're learning more
    about them. But they're--they're a heck of a lot more sophisticated than
    people assume, I guess is the best way to put it. They think, and they
    plan, and they plot. They burrow into free societies.
        And so what the Vice President and the FBI
    Director were reflecting was a
    general understanding of the desires and attitudes and methodology or
    potential methodology--obviously, if we knew the exact methodology, they
    wouldn't be around; we would have taken care of--well, protect our
    homeland, I'll put it to you that way, within the Constitution of the
    United States, of course. They would be off the streets.
        It's a concern. This is--I mean, every morning I read threats--some,
    by the way, directed not toward U.S. assets, but to the assets of our
    friends. As a matter of fact, I am confident that I've read threats that
    were directed to the countries represented here. All the time, we share
    information immediately. As a matter of fact, before I see it, I'm
    confident that the information has gone to the intelligence-gathering
    networks of the respected countries. And that's very important; that's
    very important. I don't mean to be an alarmist. And again,

    [[Page 842]]

    there are no--I didn't have a--there's not a moment.
        But there is an attitude of these people. And they're relentless,
    they just are. And therefore, when you hear me say that the best
    strategy, the best defense is an offense, I mean it. And the best way to
    protect our respective people is to hunt these people down.
        One of my jobs is to continually educate the American people and,
    for that matter, anybody who is interested in the world who wants to
    listen, as to the true nature of what we face. I've got a better handle
    on it than most. I pay attention to it every day. My most important
    job--we'll debate all the debates and all the issues, but my most
    important job is to protect America and our friends and allies and work
    with our friends and allies to protect the innocent people in your
    countries.
        You know, it's a unique war we're fighting. The old wars, there
    would be battlelines and movements, and you could measure progress here
    and territory taken here. A lot of people steeped in history kind of
    still think that way. But it's a different kind of war. And we're
    recognizing how different it is as we get more intelligence. And it
    takes a different effort to fight it.
        But it's real; it's absolutely real. I know some in the world don't
    particularly want to hear that. It's much easier not to be confronted
    with the truth, because it means that there's going to be sacrifice and
    worry and concern. But it's a real threat, and I'm going to--I'll battle
    with all my--and I've got a great country behind me doing----
        Q. On this point, were you disappointed by the questions raised by
    the Democrats about the way you were informed? Did the conclusions you
    draw, you drew from this information----
        The President. As I said, this is the--the thing about Washington. I
    suspect capitals elsewhere--democracy, there's nothing like a little
    second-guessing. As I said, in Washington, the second-guessing is second
    nature. I'm used to it. I think there was a lot of--most of the elected
    officials here are very responsible citizens. They understand the nature
    of the intelligence; they understand how it works.
        We're a united country--may flare up a little, politics flares up.
    But we're a united country. And this country is--both Republicans and
    Democrats are united to win this war on terror, and I appreciate that
    spirit from Washington.

    Chairman Yasser Arafat of the Palestinian
    Authority

        Q. On Middle East----
        The President. Make it a good one.
        Q. Yes.
        The President. Be sure it's a good one. [Laughter] I'm sure
    everybody here is interested in that subject.
        Q. Is peace possible with Arafat?
        The President. It's a very interesting question. First of all, I
    meant what I said on April the 4th, when I said Mr. Arafat has let the
    Palestinian people down. He's had a chance to lead. He had a chance to
    get a peace agreement with my predecessor. He's had chance after chance.
    And by failing to lead, he has really let the Palestinians down.
        I say that with a lot of angst in my heart because I am concerned
    about the plight of the Palestinian citizenry, poor and isolated and
    frustrated. Many live in refugee camps and have for years. And there's
    obviously--I realize in many of their hearts, there's little hope, and
    that's frustrating.
        And so I am clearly disappointed. Somebody said, ``Has he earned
    your respect?'' I said, he never had my respect, because he has--he let
    his people down. The role of a leader is to lead.
        Having said that, I do think peace is possible, and I think it's
    important. I think it's very important that we work toward a vision of
    two states living side by side in peace. There's work for all of us
    involved

    [[Page 843]]

    in this process, to have that vision so necessary for a secure Israel
    and so necessary for a hopeful Palestine.
        The process to get there is going to require a commitment by all
    parties: a commitment for the United States to continue to lead on the
    issue, and we will; a commitment by the Israelis to make the tough
    choices necessary for the Palestinian state to exist; the commitment by
    the Palestinians to renounce and fight terror; the commitment by the
    Arab world to become engaged not only in the humanitarian aspects of the
    region but to be a part of the building of the institutions necessary
    for a Palestinian state to exist.
        That starts with a security apparatus that actually functions for
    the benefit of the Palestinian people by fighting off terror, by
    rejecting extremism. There is--and at the same time, shows the world,
    not only just Israel but shows American and Arab nations and everybody,
    the EU, that there is a concerted effort to fight terror, a security
    force in which authority and responsibility are properly aligned. That's
    step one.
        A while ago I announced that Tenet was
    going to reengage in the process of developing this security force.
    There also needs to be the institutions necessary for the growth of a
    state, such as the ability to disburse money in a noncorrupt way, the
    capacity to provide help for citizens--actual help for citizens who
    suffer--in a way that will lead to the rebuilding of community; they
    have the civil institutions necessary for growth. That will come when
    there are--when there is the reforms necessary to make sure there is
    accountability in the Palestinian Authority.
        There needs to be the conditions necessary for economic vitality;
    that's trade. There's money willing to be spent. The EU--I've talked to
    President Aznar on the subject; I've talked
    to your respective leaders on the subject. I've committed to it.
        But I'm not committed to spending--sending money in a place until
    I'm convinced it's going to be spent to help the Palestinian people. And
    so I--yes, I think peace is possible. It's going to take awhile; it's
    going to take a lot of work. And the first steps necessary are for
    people to assume their responsibilities, to assume a responsible role.
        I am--I will tell you that you've read the press accounting of
    what's taking place. There is a sense that--amongst some in the region,
    a lot in the region, that there needs to be a reform process in the
    Palestinians that will boost the confidence of, first, the people,
    second, the neighborhood, and third, the community of the world, of
    which the EU and America are an integral part.
        So I will continue to work for peace, and I just--to renounce
    terror, insist that people fight off terrorist attacks, demand that
    there be accountability for people who are involved in the process, cut
    off money wherever we can, to deny terrorists the capacity to derail
    peace by death. And we have to do that in order to achieve peace. You've
    got to deny people--killers the ability to destroy hope through death.
    And I'm optimistic we can do that. I believe we can. Thanks for asking.
        Okay, thanks for your time.

    Note: The interview began at 10:20 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House, and the transcript was embargoed for release by the Office
    of the Press Secretary until 10 p.m. In his remarks, the President
    referred to Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany; President Jacques
    Chirac of France; Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy; President
    Vladimir V. Putin of Russia; Secretary General Lord Robertson of the
    North Atlantic Treaty Organization; President Saddam Hussein of Iraq;
    and President Jose Maria Aznar of Spain in his capacity as President of
    the European Council. He also referred to ``NATO at 20,'' a proposed
    NATO-Russia cooperation mechanism in which NATO member states and Russia
    will work as equal partners in areas of common interest. Journalists
    participating in the interview

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    were: Leo Wieland, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung; Patrick Jarreau, Le
    Monde; Gabrial Volk, Argumenti i Fakti; and Alberto Flores-D'Arcais, La
    Repubblica. A tape was not available for verification of the content of
    this interview.