[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
[June 4, 2000]
[Pages 1085-1091]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
Interview With Aleksei Venediktov of Ekho
Moskvy Radio in Moscow
June 4, 2000
Mr. Venediktov. Good evening. Today we have a guest, the President
of the United States of America. Good evening, Mr. President.
The President. Good evening.
Russia-U.S. Relations
Mr. Venediktov. Right off the bat, I'd like to say that today we've
already had a press conference, which our listeners could see you, and
so for that reason, my questions will not be political in nature. Mostly
listeners will be asking their questions.
My first question is as follows, Mr. President. The latest public
opinion poll in Russia by the Institute of--[inaudible]--had found that
11 percent of Russians see an enemy in the United States. Another 11
percent of Russians do not know how to answer this question. And 78
percent of Russians believe that Russia is more of a friend, rather than
an enemy. I would ask you, since just the ordinary people say this, as
to the other 22 percent who feel that Russia is either an enemy or do
not know how to answer the question, what would you be able to say
directly to those people who are now listening to you and watching you?
The President. Well, first I would say the 78 percent are right.
And I would say that the United States has tried to be a friend to
Russia and to democracy, prosperity, and strength in Russia.
I have worked hard to help support Russian democracy, Russian
economic reform, and a large role for Russia in the world. I supported
Russia coming into the G-8, to the Asian-Pacific economic leaders group;
having a special partnership with NATO; working on the ground, our
troops, Russian troops, side by side in the Balkans. And I intend to
support Russia's effort to get a program going with the International
[[Page 1086]]
Monetary Fund, with the World Bank. I believe the world needs a strong
and prosperous and democratic Russia that respects the rule of law and
the differences among its people. And that's what I've worked for.
So I have tried to be a good friend. And I think America wants
friendly relations. The American people basically like the Russian
people, and they feel better when they think we have good relations and
that we have a good future together.
Mr. Venediktov. I believe, Mr. President, you are mistaken, because
right in front of me is a Gallup poll from the United States, March of
the year 2000, and the ``positive'' attitude towards Russia, or ``mostly
positive,'' is only 40 percent of the American population; and ``mostly
negative'' or ``very negative'' is 59 percent answers of the Americans
who were polled. How could you explain to the Russians now why
Americans, a significant part of the citizens, are negative towards
United States?* Is it fear? Is it unhappiness? Are they angry, or what?
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*White House correction.
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The President. I think it overwhelmingly is the opinion of the
American people, and most people in the West, about the situation in
Chechnya and the highly publicized other differences we have. But I
think if you ask the American people another question, ``Would you like
to see a good American relationship with a strong, prosperous,
democratic Russia,'' they would say yes. And if you talk to the American
people that have actually known Russians and you ask them, ``Do you like
the Russian people,'' overwhelmingly they would say yes.
Joint Anti-Ballistic Missile System
Mr. Venediktov. I am finished with asking my questions, Mr.
President. Now let's go to the questions that ordinary people have
asked. Some questions came over the Internet--[inaudible]--from St.
Petersburg--[inaudible]--from Moscow--and they basically all ask the
same question. ``Why don't you want, together with Mr. Putin, together
with Russia, to create a joint system of national anti-ballistic missile
system? Why have not you accepted this proposal''--these questions came
before the press conference, but it does increase the fear among those
people, doesn't it?
The President. Well, let me explain the issue here. And I don't
want to take too long on any questions, because we want to answer as
many as possible, but this is very important.
First of all, I have no objection to working with Russia on a joint
missile defense that would intercept a missile directed at Russia or the
United States from a hostile power in the Middle East or anywhere else,
in the so-called boost phase. I have no objection to doing that. I think
we should work together on it. The problem is, we think it will take 10
years or more to develop; the technology is not yet available.
Now, by contrast, we expect to face this threat in the United States
within 5 years, and we think the other technology for the limited
national missile defense will be available within that time. So that's
why I haven't agreed to scrap what seems to be a clear way of defending
our country for an unclear way. But I think it's important that the
Russian people and the American people understand the exact nature of
the dispute here.
Mr. Venediktov. But it frightens Russians, obviously.
The President. Yes, I understand. But I think they won't be
frightened if they understand the exact nature of the difference, even
if we can't resolve the difference.
The Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972 enshrined a theory of our
security--that is, Russian security and American security--based on
strategic stability and mutual deterrence. That is, we would never have
so many defensive weapons, and we wouldn't have national missile
defenses that could interfere with our offensive weapons, so that
neither of us would ever launch nuclear missiles at each other because
of that. Okay.
Now, we recognized that things might change and threats might come
from other places, even way back then. So there was a possibility of
amending the missile defense treaty. Now, we recognize--just today
President Putin and I signed a statement of
principles that said, ``Okay, there is a new threat; the treaty may be
able to be amended, but we disagree right now on how to meet the
threat.'' That's what we said.
The narrow issue is this: If the U.S. has a missile defense that can
stop a couple of missiles from North Korea, does it have the potential
to upset what has kept us safe all these years, which is mutual
deterrence and stability? We say, no; they say, the Russians say, it
might. So we're trying to work through that.
[[Page 1087]]
But the point is, neither side believes the other side is trying to
hurt them directly. There is an honest difference of opinion here. And
we closed some of the gaps in our two positions, and we promise to keep
working on it.
Believe me, I did not want to scrap the ABM Treaty or the theory of
mutual deterrence or strategic stability. Both President Putin and I want to reduce the number of offensive
missiles but keep the theory that has kept us safe all these years.
Mr. Venediktov. I think it's time to listen to some phone calls. I
would like to say to Mr. President that now the Ekho program also is
carrying out electronic voting, and at the end of our discussion, we'd
like to comment you on what we get. The question that people are voting
on is as follows: Will the situation under President Putin improve
towards the United States, or will it get worse, or you don't know? So
by the end of the program here we'll get some results.
U.S. Economic Issues
Hello, this is the first call. Please, what is your question to
President Clinton? ``Do you think financial crisis is possible in the
United States? Thank you. I guess the Russian crisis does not bother
you, is not a concern to you. What about America? Is there an economic
crisis possible in the United States?''
The President. Well, first of all, the Russian condition does
concern me. I think when the Russian economy is healthier, the American
economy will be healthier. And I intend to support the economic reform
program that the President and the Prime
Minister have outlined.
I think a financial crisis is unlikely in the United States, as long
as we have a good economic program, as long as we keep our budget in
surplus, as long as we're continuing to open our markets and compete
with other countries, and as long as we're investing in our people. If
we have good policies and we work hard, I think a big financial crisis
is unlikely.
Political Satire
Mr. Venediktov. The next phone call. ``Have you ever seen the
puppets program? Have you seen your own puppet? And how do you relate to
the fact that there is a program such as this that lampoons
Presidents?''
The President. I haven't seen it. Perhaps I can get it on tape and
watch it; I would like to see it. But it doesn't bother me. I have been
lampooned in America a lot. There is almost nothing anybody can say to
make fun of me that hasn't been said already. And as long as it's said
in good spirit and good humor, I don't mind. I think we need people to
make fun of us so we don't take ourselves too seriously. And if it's not
said in good spirits, then you just have to ignore it and go to work
every day.
Freedom of the Press
Mr. Venediktov. Okay, in that case, I have a question, Mr.
President. It seems to me, despite the first amendment of the
Constitution, any President of the United States, or Argentina or
Russia, any other country, has a desire to kind of squash the press,
which is not--that follows you all the time, looks for dirty stories, is
always trying to hound you. Have you ever had a desire to shake a
journalist real strong? And if you've had such feelings, how did you
manage to control them? This is the main question. Of course, it refers
to just about any--it could be asked for any President, any leader.
The President. Well, of course, from time to time you read
something that you believe is either untrue or unfair, or maybe you're
afraid it is true, and you just wish it weren't printed. And you can get
angry. But I think the important thing--in our country, for example, if
you're a public figure, it's almost impossible to even win a lawsuit
against somebody who's deliberately lying about you, because we have
bent over backwards in favor of the freedom of the press.
Now, why do we do that? Because we think that democracy is more
stable and people are more free when the press is free. And we trust the
people to understand if the press is either false or unfair. In other
words--particularly in this electronic age, when someone says something
about me that's not true, I can go on a program like this, and I can
say, here's what they say; here's the truth. I can go on television. I
can give a speech.
So what we believe is that even though if you have a really free
press, that much freedom can carry with it irresponsibility, you still
have more stability in society by letting people be free, by letting the
debates unfold, and by trusting that the citizens, the voters, in the
end, will get it right.
And we've had this first amendment for over 200 years now. And the
press has become more
[[Page 1088]]
and more and more free. The meaning of it has been broadened. And our
country has gotten stronger and stronger. It can become personally
painful if someone says something that maybe they shouldn't say, but the
society is stronger with a free press. And if you trust the people, then
you must believe that if something is said you don't agree with, you go
out and disagree. You tell the people your side, and you trust them to
make the right decision. That's what I believe gives you the strongest
society.
Mr. Venediktov. Have you spoken to President Putin about freedom of
the press in Russia?
The President. Yes, we had a discussion about it, and I said in my
press conference today--I quoted his statement. President Putin said
that without civil society and free press, the Russian democracy
couldn't go on. And I think that's a wise statement.
I also believe, though, that this is something that has to be
debated and fought for and struggled for. For example, in the beginning
of our democracy, around 1800, we had the same Constitution we have
today. But there were--people could bring lawsuits against people who
printed things in the newspapers, and often win in ways that intimidated
them. So we had to keep changing the law to try to preserve the right
for totally innocent private citizens to bring suit against people who
might use the press to hurt them deliberately and to lie about them
deliberately, while still allowing a very broad range for political
debate and dispute and dissent.
So we've been working on this a long time. But the trend has always
been for more freedom of the press, particularly where public issues and
public officials are concerned. And I think it's fair to say that no one
in modern history in our country has had either more negative press or
more painful press than I have, but I still think on balance as long as
you get to answer, the people have a chance to get it right, and you get
more stability, because an open press also ensures that all these issues
are fully debated and that all sides are fully heard.
So I believe it's an instrument of stability. And if you think it's
not free enough here, then what I would urge you to do is to look at the
example of America. Read the 200-year history of our country and just
work on the issues as they come up. Just keep pushing for more--a
broader and broader and broader interpretation of freedom of the press.
But as I said, we've been working on it a long time. But it's served us
well.
Mr. Venediktov. But you don't necessarily have to expel
journalists. To tell you the truth, I have read the memoirs of your
former Press Secretary, Mr. Stephanopoulos. You get upset, not do
nothing, answer, or just let it go past you. Or you could ask the tax
police, for example, to check on the business of CNN, or you could----
The President. Yes, but I never did that. I would never do that.
And, first of all, it's now clearly illegal for a President to do that.
It's not lawful. If you're mad at somebody, I think the thing to do is
to express your anger, blow off steam, and go on about your business. Or
even better, control your anger and think of a way to make sure the
public has the impression you believe is the right one.
[At this point, the program paused for station identification.]
International Monetary Fund
Mr. Venediktov. You're live on the air; hello? What is your
question? ``I'd like to ask what kind of influence does the President
have on the International Monetary Fund, and why is it not giving us
credits? It seems that we have an economic uprise in our economy, and
we're not getting any credits from the International Monetary Fund. I'd
like to get an answer to this question. Why?''
The President. Well, first of all, the President can have some
influence over the International Monetary Fund, but he doesn't run it.
All the various contributors to the Fund have some influence. I have
focused a lot on trying to reform the IMF, to make sure that its
policies and practices meet the real needs of countries for the 21st
century.
Secondly, I do support Russia getting a program with the IMF and
getting financial help from the IMF. Your new President, Mr.
Putin, and your new Prime Minister have come up with a very good plan, and when they go
before the IMF and ask for financial support, the United States will
support them. They're putting the plan together now; they're going to
make the presentation. I expect to support it.
Next Administration
Mr. Venediktov. Mr. President, I'd like to check to see how ready
you are to quick questions, quick answers, we got over the Internet
[[Page 1089]]
from Russia, all of Russia. These are private questions. You're a sports
person, you know sports--are you ready to answer them?
The President. I'll do my best.
Mr. Venediktov. Mr. President, what kind of slogan would you put on
the wall of the Oval Room for the next President?
The President. What should the next President's slogan be? Making
the most of our prosperity, meeting the big challenges of the 21st
century.
President's Spending Money
Mr. Venediktov. How long has it been since you've held money in
your hands, cash?
The President. About an hour.
Mr. Venediktov. What did you buy?
The President. Oh, I didn't buy anything, but I got my--I'm going
to dinner after I leave you, and so I brought my money with me. But I
try to go out and shop every--buy something every few months, anyway,
just so I keep in touch with people. And I talk to people in bookstores,
or I go buy something for my wife or my daughter, just to see what
things cost and see what people are doing. I think it's important that
Presidents not get too isolated.
Mr. Venediktov. A favorite question that we always ask on our radio
station programs, Mr. President, do you remember how you made your first
dollar, earned your first dollar, and how did you spend it?
The President. Well, I remember how I made it; I don't remember how
I spent it. The first thing I did to earn money was cutting lawns and
cutting hedges and taking care of the yards of the people who lived in
my neighborhood. And I was probably about 9 or 10 years old when I did
that.
In my lifetime, I probably had earned money doing 20 or 25 different
things. I've built houses. I've cleared land. I've worked in a grocery
store. I had a news comic book business. Obviously, I was a musician. I
made money as a musician. I've been a teacher. I've done a lot of
different things in my life.
Personal Transportation
Mr. Venediktov. This is a question from the city of--[inaudible].
``Mr. President, do you know how to drive a car, an airplane, a
submarine, tank?'' Maybe President Putin has inspired this question.
The President. Yes, to the car, although I haven't driven one in a
while. And, no, to the airplane. I have taken off and landed a small
plane--25 years ago my wife gave me
airplane lessons--but I never pursued it. I never got my pilot's
license. And I have never--the submarine--I've ridden in a tank, but
I've never driven a tank or guided a submarine.
President's Family
Mr. Venediktov. Going back to the telephone questions, here's
another question from the Internet. ``What do you value in this life
most of all?''
The President. My family, in this life.
Post-Cold-War Russia
Mr. Venediktov. There will be other questions about your wife and
your daughter. And now back to the telephones. Your question, please?
Hello? You're live on the air. The question is as follows: In 1995 Mr.
President spoke at a meeting of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And he very
highly praised the role of the United States in the ideological efforts
to make the Soviet Union fall apart. And the question was said about
disassembling Russia, the falling apart of the military complex, and
creating regimes in these republics, which we need, as he said. And so
the question: How can you comment on that statement that you made at
that time?
The President. Well, first of all, I wish I had exactly the words
before me. But if I said that I thought the United States and its allies
in the cold war, by staying strong, hastened the end of communism and
the end of the Soviet Union and the liberation of all these various
states and the rise of democracy--I believed that then; I still believe
that.
But that does not mean that I think Russia should be weak. I want
Russia to be strong. I have worked for 8 years for a strong Russia. I
want Russia to be strong and prosperous. But I also want it to be
democratic, to respect the differences of its people--religious, ethnic,
and otherwise--and to be governed by the rule of law.
But I do not want a weak Russia. I want Russia to be strong. And I
also want Russia, as I said just a couple of days ago in Germany, to
have the ability to be fully part of all major international
institutions and have its full say there.
[[Page 1090]]
Russia's World Status
Mr. Venediktov. And in this connection, there is a question. ``Mr.
President, could you frankly say for the United States today, is Russia
a country of the Third World, a developing nation?''
The President. No. No. Russia was badly hurt by the recent economic
crisis and by some problems in the transition from a command-and-control
Communist economy to a market economy. You know the problems as well as
I do. But it is a country with a vast and impressive array of science
and technology achievements, incredibly well-educated people, and the
capacity, I believe, to see a big growth in per capita income very
quickly.
So it's not fair to say that Russia is a developing or Third World
country. It is fair to say, I think, that the incomes of the Russian
people are far below where they should be and far below where they will
be if the new government implements serious economic reforms and
investors from around the world have confidence that their money will be
treated in an appropriate way. I think you will see a large growth in
jobs and incomes here, because your people are immensely talented. I
think you've got good years ahead of you.
Mr. Venediktov. Since we don't have much time left, I would like to
once again ask a quick-style question and expect that you could answer
quickly. These, like I said, are private questions, private nature, from
our listeners. Here's a question from one of our listeners--
[inaudible]--who does the Soviet program, they're continuing a live
broadcast of this show--maybe you remember, he set up an interview with
you----
The President. Yes, he did.
First Lady's Political Future
Mr. Venediktov. ``Some say the political career of Hillary Clinton
will be so successful that she will become the President of the United
States of America. Who knows? Are you ready to return to the White House
as a husband of the President, being sort of the First Mister? How do
you look at it?'' [Laughter]
The President. Well, let me say, first of all, I'm very proud of my
wife for running for the Senate. She's running hard, and I think she'll
win. And she's promised to serve her full term. Now, when she finishes
that service, if she wants to continue in public life, I'll support her
any way I can.
But I expect that the Vice President, Al Gore, will be elected President. And I expect he'll run for
reelection. And after that, who knows what will happen? But I'll say
that I'm very proud of my wife, and I'm going to support her political
career any way I can. And I'm going to try to be a good citizen in any
way that I can, both of my country and of the world, when I leave
office.
Chelsea Clinton
Mr. Venediktov. Mr. President, are you happy with your daughter,
how she's studying, how she relates to her relatives, to her parents?
The President. Well, I think when you become the parent of a young
man or a young woman, you're always happy when they still want to be
around you and spend some time with you. So I'm very happy with her. I'm
very proud of her, and I love her very much.
Mr. Venediktov. A Moscow student asks you to convey his greetings
to her, and says that the growing generation will correct your
mistakes--he and she will improve the mistakes of their parents.
The President. I certainly hope so. I certainly hope so. That's
what's supposed to happen in life.
President's View of Russia
Mr. Venediktov. And the last question--I'm asking this one. It's a
poll, and I would like for you to comment on the results. Just before
your visit, there were questions raised about you--not just about
America but you, yourself. What do you think about Russia? That was a
question to the Russians. I think the public have come up with very
interesting results. One-third, exactly, feels that you, personally--
you, not America but you, personally--feel that you're a positively
disposed towards America. One-third, exactly, thinks that you are ill-
disposed. And one-third thinks that they cannot answer this question. I
would like Mr. President, by the end of our discussion agree to say
something to the people who have doubts in you.
The President. Well, I think that I made it clear that I'm
positively disposed toward Russia, but I understand why a third would
question that. That is--why would you question that? Well, because we
had differences between the United States and Russia over Bosnia,
Kosovo, Chechnya.
[[Page 1091]]
Mr. Venediktov. By the way, there were many questions on Kosovo.
The President. Yes, yes.
Mr. Venediktov. Do you agree with the fact that there was a mistake
made?
The President. So we had differences. But I would like to ask you
to consider on the other side--I led the way in supporting Russia's
entry into the G-8 organization, the prestigious international
organization, into the Asian-Pacific leaders organization, into the
special partnership agreement with NATO. I have supported every effort
to help Russia economically. I have been here five times. No American
President has ever been here five times to Moscow. I wouldn't be
surprised if no American President ever comes here five times again.
I first came to this city in 1969 when I was 23 years old. And I
have been favorably disposed toward Russia and the Russian people ever
since--notwithstanding our disagreements, even during the cold war.
And one of the things that I have always tried to do is to help
support a free, prosperous, strong Russia that is fully integrated into
the international institutions and the Western institutions, so that
tomorrow and in all of the tomorrows to come, you will be a great
nation. But greatness will be defined not by the dominance of your
neighbors but by the dominance of the achievement of your people and the
power of your partnerships with other countries. That's what I want, and
I've worked very hard for it.
But I am extremely favorably disposed toward the people of Russia.
And I am extremely optimistic about the future partnerships between the
United States and Russia.
Mr. Venediktov. I thank you, Mr. President, for coming here. Of
course, many questions have been left unasked. And I hope that after you
return, after your term of office has ended, return back to Russia--
perhaps even before that--you will be able to come back to the studio
again, because I have many other questions. If you would allow, I would
give all these questions to your staff and maybe some of them would
interest you.
The President. Yes, do.
President Vladimir Putin of Russia
Mr. Venediktov. The last one. There were 5,000 of them that came
in. You see the results. Forty-eight percent of the viewers--
[inaudible]--believe that the relations between the United States and
Russia will improve under Putin. Forty-two percent believe that they
will get worse. And the rest don't know. What do you think about this
last poll that we just made?
The President. Well, I think that it reflects, first of all, the
fact that he's just in office, so people can't know for sure. Secondly,
you've got almost 49 percent saying they will, which shows that people
appreciate the fact that he's a strong and able man who has been
gracious to me in this first meeting of ours in Russia. And then the 42
percent, I think, are focused on the differences we've had and the
problems that have been publicized.
The truth is, you can't know for sure. But I think that based on the
meeting I had, we've got a better than even chance that our relationship
will improve. The relationship between the United States and Russia is
profoundly important. It will tend always to be characterized by the
disagreements, because they will always get more press coverage, because
they will always be more current. But if there is a strong underlying
commitment to democracy, to freedom, to mutual prosperity, mutual
respect, I think that over time they will get better even if there are
disagreements. That's what I believe, and that's what I've worked for.
Future Visit to Ekho Moskvy
Mr. Venediktov. Thank you very much, Mr. President. We will be
waiting for your return, so that you could answer----
The President. I'd like to come back.
Mr. Venediktov. ----by being in the studio some of the other
questions, maybe as a businessman or a lawyer. Thank you very much.
The President. I'd love to come back, because I saw on your wall
that the only way I get to sign my picture is if I come twice, you see.
So I'd like to come back. And I want to thank all the people who called
or who E-mailed in their questions. And I hope you will give me all the
questions, and maybe I can write you something about them, too.
Note: The interview began at 7:50 p.m. in Ekho Moskvy Studios and was
broadcast live. In his remarks, the President referred to Prime Minister
Mikhail Kasyanov of Russia. Mr. Venediktov spoke in Russian, and his
remarks were translated by an interpreter. A portion of this interview
could not be verified because the tape was incomplete.