[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
[May 22, 2000]
[Pages 1003-1005]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]
Interview With Tom Brokaw of NBC's ``Nightly
News''
May 22, 2000
Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China
Mr. Brokaw. Now to the President of the United States, live from
the Roosevelt Room at the White House. Mr. President, good evening.
Thank you for being with us.
You need 218 votes in the House. How many do you have firm tonight?
The President. I don't know, Tom; we're getting close. I'm not sure
I agree with Lisa. I don't know that we're
confident, but we're working hard. And I think that the message is
getting there because everyone knows, first of all, economically, China
gets no new access to our markets, and we get vast new access to their
markets. This is not like a normal trade agreement. This is more like a
membership deal. They get in the World Trade Organization, and we get
great new access to their markets.
And secondly, I think all these people who care about human rights
in China coming out for the agreement because it will move China closer
to the rule of law and closer to freedom--the dissidents in China, the
new leader of Taiwan, the Hong Kong democracy
leader, Martin Lee, the Dalai Lama even--all these people saying that this will advance the
cause of human rights and personal freedom and the rule of law, and the
fact that it's clearly in our national security interests, I think these
things are helping us. And so I'm optimistic. But boy, we've got a lot
of work to do. It's not done yet.
Mr. Brokaw. Mr. President, Wei Jingsheng, who is a leading
dissident, is violently opposed to this trade deal. Let me read to you
from the 1999 State Department report on human rights in China: ``The
Government's poor human rights record deteriorated markedly throughout
the year as the Government intensified its efforts to suppress dissent.
By year's end, almost all the key leaders of the China Democracy Party
were serving long prison terms or were in custody without formal
charges.''
We're not going to be hearing those voices in this debate.
The President. Well, we have also taken the lead in trying to call
attention to China's human rights abuses in the proper international
forum. But I think it's quite interesting that you have people who have
been persecuted in China or someone like Martin Lee, who can't even go to China from Hong Kong because he's
for democracy, saying that the only way to get China into a system that
observes the rule of law more and protects human rights more and has
more liberty is to have this kind of strategic engagement and put China
in a system where they will observe the rule of law.
And there are dissidents, of course, who don't think it should be
done, but I think it's really important to know that in China the main
people who don't want this to pass are the ultra-conservative Communists
in the military and
[[Page 1004]]
those who run the state-owned industries, who know that if we give them
the back of our hand, then they can use that as a way of saying, ``Okay,
America's going to be our enemy now, so we're going to maintain our
control over the military, our control over the businesses, our control
over the people more.''
I think it's quite interesting that in China, the people who want us
to vote against this are the--basically the more reactionary Communist
elements who would like to have America as an enemy for a long time to
come. I think if you--all the press reports coming out of China show
that it is the reformers, the people who genuinely want to change China,
who want to get into the WTO, and who want to have a constructive long-
term working relationship with the United States.
So I'm doing this because, yes, it's clearly good for America
economically but also because we fought three wars in Asia in the last
50 years, and I want to give our children a chance to have a
constructive relationship with China, give China a chance to evolve
toward more democracy. Is it guaranteed? Of course not----
Mr. Brokaw. Mr. President----
The President. ----but it's far more likely if we do this.
Mr. Brokaw. Mr. President, the Interfaith Alliance that has been
advising Congress and the White House on matters of religion has also
come out against it. But one of the people who says that he's going to
vote for the China trade bill is a New York Congressman by the name of
Rick Lazio. Does he strike you as a pretty enlightened public servant?
The President. Well, I agree with him on this, and I'm glad he's
going to vote for it.
New York Senatorial Election
Mr. Brokaw. Do you think that Mrs. Clinton is going to have a much
tougher race against Rick Lazio than she might have against Mayor
Giuliani?
The President. Oh, I don't know. I think Mayor Giuliani was a very formidable candidate because of his
service as mayor, because of the big drop in crime in New York, and
because he agreed with us on so many other issues. He supported my
initiative to put 100,000 police on the street and on many other things.
So I think that--you know, I think it's a hard race regardless. But
I like her chances because I think
the people of New York will like her more and more as the days go by and
because they agree with her on the issues. And I look forward to voting
for her.
Arkansas Disbarment Proceeding
Mr. Brokaw. Mr. President, in your home State of Arkansas tonight a
panel for the Arkansas Supreme Court has recommended that you be
disbarred. Your lawyer has already said that you will appeal, that it's
unprecedented. Will you personally take part in that appeal and appear
in Arkansas to argue your case?
The President. No. No, I promised myself, and I promised the
American people when all the proceedings were over in Congress, that I
would take no further personal part. And I knew when the timetable for
this was moved up that I'd always be at a severe disadvantage because I
will not personally involve myself in any of this until I'm no longer
President. It's not right.
The only reason I agreed even to appeal it is that my lawyers looked
at all the precedents, and they said, ``There's no way in the world, if
they just treat you like everybody else has been treated, that this is
even close to that kind of case.'' So the precedents contradict this
decision, and ultimately the decision has to be made by a judge. And so
we're going to give the judge a chance to do what we believe is right,
and I think that's the right thing to do.
Mr. Brokaw. But Mr. President, this comes in a State where you were
the attorney general, where you taught law. You've now been held in
contempt of court by a Federal judge in that State, and you've been
recommended for disbarment. With all due respect, this is a stain on
your record well outside the political arena, isn't it?
The President. Well, when I'm not President anymore, I'll be happy
to defend myself. And there is certainly another side to both those
things you mentioned, and I'll be happy to talk about it. But the main
thing I want to say tonight is the only reason I agreed even to have
papers filed, since I'm not going to defend myself while I'm President,
is that there are clear precedents where more significant kinds of
conduct--even if you assume what the judge says is right, which I
strongly disagree with--that led to nowhere near this kind of decision.
This decision contradicts all the cases on point that the committee has
ever decided in the past. And so we'll let a judge decide whether it's
right or wrong.
[[Page 1005]]
Note: The interview began at 6:30 p.m. in Roosevelt Room at the White
House and was broadcast live. In his remarks, the President referred to
Lisa Myers, national correspondent, NBC News; President Chen Shui-bian
of Taiwan; Hong Kong Democratic Party Chair Martin Lee; and Mayor
Rudolph W. Giuliani of New York City.