[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
[May 22, 2000]
[Pages 1003-1005]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Tom Brokaw of NBC's ``Nightly 
News''
May 22, 2000

Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China

    Mr. Brokaw.  Now to the President of the United States, live from 
the Roosevelt Room at the White House. Mr. President, good evening. 
Thank you for being with us.
    You need 218 votes in the House. How many do you have firm tonight?
    The President.  I don't know, Tom; we're getting close. I'm not sure 
I agree with Lisa. I don't know that we're 
confident, but we're working hard. And I think that the message is 
getting there because everyone knows, first of all, economically, China 
gets no new access to our markets, and we get vast new access to their 
markets. This is not like a normal trade agreement. This is more like a 
membership deal. They get in the World Trade Organization, and we get 
great new access to their markets.
    And secondly, I think all these people who care about human rights 
in China coming out for the agreement because it will move China closer 
to the rule of law and closer to freedom--the dissidents in China, the 
new leader of Taiwan, the Hong Kong democracy 
leader, Martin Lee, the Dalai Lama even--all these people saying that this will advance the 
cause of human rights and personal freedom and the rule of law, and the 
fact that it's clearly in our national security interests, I think these 
things are helping us. And so I'm optimistic. But boy, we've got a lot 
of work to do. It's not done yet.
    Mr. Brokaw.  Mr. President, Wei Jingsheng, who is a leading 
dissident, is violently opposed to this trade deal. Let me read to you 
from the 1999 State Department report on human rights in China: ``The 
Government's poor human rights record deteriorated markedly throughout 
the year as the Government intensified its efforts to suppress dissent. 
By year's end, almost all the key leaders of the China Democracy Party 
were serving long prison terms or were in custody without formal 
charges.''
    We're not going to be hearing those voices in this debate.
    The President.  Well, we have also taken the lead in trying to call 
attention to China's human rights abuses in the proper international 
forum. But I think it's quite interesting that you have people who have 
been persecuted in China or someone like Martin Lee, who can't even go to China from Hong Kong because he's 
for democracy, saying that the only way to get China into a system that 
observes the rule of law more and protects human rights more and has 
more liberty is to have this kind of strategic engagement and put China 
in a system where they will observe the rule of law.
    And there are dissidents, of course, who don't think it should be 
done, but I think it's really important to know that in China the main 
people who don't want this to pass are the ultra-conservative Communists 
in the military and

[[Page 1004]]

those who run the state-owned industries, who know that if we give them 
the back of our hand, then they can use that as a way of saying, ``Okay, 
America's going to be our enemy now, so we're going to maintain our 
control over the military, our control over the businesses, our control 
over the people more.''
    I think it's quite interesting that in China, the people who want us 
to vote against this are the--basically the more reactionary Communist 
elements who would like to have America as an enemy for a long time to 
come. I think if you--all the press reports coming out of China show 
that it is the reformers, the people who genuinely want to change China, 
who want to get into the WTO, and who want to have a constructive long-
term working relationship with the United States.
    So I'm doing this because, yes, it's clearly good for America 
economically but also because we fought three wars in Asia in the last 
50 years, and I want to give our children a chance to have a 
constructive relationship with China, give China a chance to evolve 
toward more democracy. Is it guaranteed? Of course not----
    Mr. Brokaw.  Mr. President----
    The President. ----but it's far more likely if we do this.
    Mr. Brokaw.  Mr. President, the Interfaith Alliance that has been 
advising Congress and the White House on matters of religion has also 
come out against it. But one of the people who says that he's going to 
vote for the China trade bill is a New York Congressman by the name of 
Rick Lazio. Does he strike you as a pretty enlightened public servant?
    The President.  Well, I agree with him on this, and I'm glad he's 
going to vote for it.

New York Senatorial Election

    Mr. Brokaw.  Do you think that Mrs. Clinton is going to have a much 
tougher race against Rick Lazio than she might have against Mayor 
Giuliani?
    The President.  Oh, I don't know. I think Mayor Giuliani was a very formidable candidate because of his 
service as mayor, because of the big drop in crime in New York, and 
because he agreed with us on so many other issues. He supported my 
initiative to put 100,000 police on the street and on many other things.
    So I think that--you know, I think it's a hard race regardless. But 
I like her chances because I think 
the people of New York will like her more and more as the days go by and 
because they agree with her on the issues. And I look forward to voting 
for her.

Arkansas Disbarment Proceeding

    Mr. Brokaw.  Mr. President, in your home State of Arkansas tonight a 
panel for the Arkansas Supreme Court has recommended that you be 
disbarred. Your lawyer has already said that you will appeal, that it's 
unprecedented. Will you personally take part in that appeal and appear 
in Arkansas to argue your case?
    The President.  No. No, I promised myself, and I promised the 
American people when all the proceedings were over in Congress, that I 
would take no further personal part. And I knew when the timetable for 
this was moved up that I'd always be at a severe disadvantage because I 
will not personally involve myself in any of this until I'm no longer 
President. It's not right.
    The only reason I agreed even to appeal it is that my lawyers looked 
at all the precedents, and they said, ``There's no way in the world, if 
they just treat you like everybody else has been treated, that this is 
even close to that kind of case.'' So the precedents contradict this 
decision, and ultimately the decision has to be made by a judge. And so 
we're going to give the judge a chance to do what we believe is right, 
and I think that's the right thing to do.
    Mr. Brokaw. But Mr. President, this comes in a State where you were 
the attorney general, where you taught law. You've now been held in 
contempt of court by a Federal judge in that State, and you've been 
recommended for disbarment. With all due respect, this is a stain on 
your record well outside the political arena, isn't it?
    The President.  Well, when I'm not President anymore, I'll be happy 
to defend myself. And there is certainly another side to both those 
things you mentioned, and I'll be happy to talk about it. But the main 
thing I want to say tonight is the only reason I agreed even to have 
papers filed, since I'm not going to defend myself while I'm President, 
is that there are clear precedents where more significant kinds of 
conduct--even if you assume what the judge says is right, which I 
strongly disagree with--that led to nowhere near this kind of decision. 
This decision contradicts all the cases on point that the committee has 
ever decided in the past. And so we'll let a judge decide whether it's 
right or wrong.

[[Page 1005]]

 Note: The interview began at 6:30 p.m. in Roosevelt Room at the White 
House and was broadcast live. In his remarks, the President referred to 
Lisa Myers, national correspondent, NBC News; President Chen Shui-bian 
of Taiwan; Hong Kong Democratic Party Chair Martin Lee; and Mayor 
Rudolph W. Giuliani of New York City.