    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
    [March 2, 2000]
    [Pages 352-355]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Katie Couric of NBC's ``Today''
    Show
    March 2, 2000

    Michigan Shooting

        Ms. Couric. Mr. President, thank you so much for joining us.
        The President. Good morning, Katie.
        Ms. Couric. Good morning. Let me ask you, first of all, when you
    heard the story of a 6-year-old boy in Michigan, a first grader bringing
    a gun to school and shooting to death his 6-year-old classmate, what was
    your reaction?
        The President. Well, first, I think I had a normal human reaction. I
    didn't respond as President. I was just--as a parent I was heartbroken,
    and then I was angry. I thought, you know, how did this child get the
    gun in the first place? What's a 6-year-old doing with a gun?

    Gun Safety Legislation

        Ms. Couric. When something like this happens, politicians often jump
    on it as an excuse for more gun control. But I know that, Mr. President,
    you're very proud of pointing out that gun deaths have dropped to their
    lowest levels in more than 30 years in this country. So should we view
    this more as a tragedy than a reason to call for more gun control?
        The President. Well, it's both. The gun death rate has dropped to
    its lowest point in 30 years, but it's still by far the highest of any
    advanced nation in the world. And if we had passed the child trigger
    lock provision and we applied it to all new guns, then at least those
    guns would not be used by 6-year-olds to kill other 6-year-olds. I think
    that's very important. That's a part of this bill, which also closes the
    gun show loophole in the background check law, bans the import of large
    ammunition clips, that the Congress has had for 8 months now with no
    action.
        So I'm going to call the leaders of both parties in both Houses and
    ask them to come down here and break the logjam. There's been a House
    version and a Senate version of this bill for 8 months, and they have
    done nothing, and meanwhile, 13 kids every day--every single day there
    are 13 children who die from guns in this country. So I do think we need
    more legislation.
        Ms. Couric. Well, why is it locked in committee, why has it been
    stalemated? And when would you like them to come to the White House?
        The President. Well, I think it's been locked in committee because
    the Senate--the Vice President cast the
    tie-breaking vote in the Senate, so we got a tough bill in spite of
    fierce lobbying against it by the NRA. And the two Houses can't resolve
    their differences. But maybe this tragic death will help. We need these
    child trigger locks on the new handguns. That will begin to make a big
    difference. And then in this year's budget, I've asked them to fund some
    more research into smart gun technology, which would enable us to have
    guns that could only be fired by the adults who own them. That also
    would be a big advance.
        One of the things that's being debated in Michigan is whether there
    should be parental accountability provisions. We had provisions in our
    law for that, so that all States would have these laws--several do, but
    most don't--and those were taken out, so maybe they'll be revisited in
    the conference as well.
        But the main thing is, if we can just get the child trigger locks
    and fund investment in the smart gun technology, I think we'll be a long
    way down the road. Of course, I think ultimately what we ought to do is
    license handgun owners the way we license people who drive cars. I think
    that is the critical next step. And I hope that we will consider that,
    as well.

    [[Page 353]]

        Now, this guy stole a gun,
    apparently--that's the allegation--in the house where the child took it.
    But it would clearly make a big difference in the future to people's
    lives.
        Ms. Couric. Let me deal with some of those issues that you've just
    raised, Mr. President. What about registering guns? All Americans are
    required to register their cars. Why not require them to register guns?
        The President. You could do that, but the problem is there are over
    200 million guns out there; some say 250 million guns out there now. And
    most of the experts with whom I talked before I made my proposal believe
    that if we required all handgun owners to be licensed, we could achieve
    the same results. That is, whether you've got an old gun or you're
    buying a new gun, if people could come in when they do get new guns and
    get a license, then I believe we'd have the same result. I'm not sure,
    practically, that we could get all the guns registered in this country
    because there are so many out there already. So I'd like to begin with
    that.
        You know, keep in mind, we had all those kids die at Columbine, and
    when I fought for the Brady bill--which has kept a half a million
    felons, fugitives, and stalkers from getting guns--and the assault
    weapons ban, about somewhere between 8 and 12 Members of Congress were
    defeated in the next election by the NRA because they voted for that.
        And then when all those kids were killed at Columbine, I thought,
    surely, we can close the gun show loophole, have the child safety locks,
    and maybe have the parental responsibility provisions and ban ammunition
    clips. And those bills have been just lingering up there for 8 months. I
    don't think most Americans have any idea what a stranglehold the NRA has
    had on this Congress. And the people in our party have taken the lead,
    with a few brave Republicans, in trying to fight for sensible
    legislation. But we need the public aroused on this. We need the public
    to be heard.
        I would not be opposed to registering guns, as well, but I just want
    you to understand there are practical problems with that, and you get
    most of the benefit if you license the gun owners. So I would like to
    see us start with that.
        Ms. Couric. When it comes to licensing, Mr. President, Wayne
    LaPierre, who you know is the executive vice president of the NRA, said,
    quote, ``Criminals aren't going to stand in line to get their photos
    taken. They're not going to stand in line--stand,'' rather, ``for
    licenses. You're walking way out on a limb.''
        The President. Well, you could say that about people with automobile
    licenses, too. But when people don't have gun licenses and they're found
    with guns and they're in violation of the law for that, very often you
    can get them before they commit a crime.
        If the facts, as they've been reported, are true about the tragic
    circumstances in which this 6-year-old boy lived and have the even more
    tragic consequence of killing that totally innocent young girl--this man
    apparently stole that gun. But the point is, he could never get a
    license to carry a handgun.
        Ms. Couric. But meanwhile, is it practically possible to check every
    gun owner in America to see if he or she is carrying a license?
        The President. Well, none of these things will happen
    instantaneously, overnight. But yet, they will begin to make a
    difference.
        Look, when we passed the Brady bill, Katie, let me remind you,
    people said, ``Well, this won't make any difference, because criminals
    don't get their guns at gun stores.'' It turned out, a lot of them did.
    It turned out we were able to deny 500,000 people who were trying to buy
    handguns the right to do so because they were felons, fugitives, and
    stalkers. Now, there are a lot of kids alive and there are a lot of
    adults alive in America because we did that.
        Now a lot of them are using the gun shows or these urban flea
    markets. If we close that loophole, do the background check there,
    license new handgun owners--license--excuse me--handgun owners, and put
    safety locks, these trigger locks on the guns to protect the kids--and
    then the next big step is to technologically develop guns that can only
    be fired by their lawful owners--we can turn this situation around.
        But like I said, we've got over 200 million guns out there. We're
    losing 13 kids a day. The accidental rate of children--that's another
    thing I'd like the American people to think about. The rate of kids
    being killed by accident with guns is 9 times higher in America than
    that of the next 24 biggest countries combined--combined.
        So we have not done nearly enough, and we need to identify these
    things and just systematically go do them. None of them interfere with
    the right of any lawful citizen to hunt or to

    [[Page 354]]

    engage in sport shooting. And it's an unbelievable thing, after what we
    saw clearly at Columbine and all the problems that were there, that 8
    months have gone by, and the Congress can't act. And the reason they
    can't act is because of the heat the NRA has put on them.
        Ms. Couric. Mr. President, why haven't you publicly asked gun
    manufacturers to produce these so-called smart guns voluntarily?
        The President. Oh, I have. Let me say, we're getting some support
    from responsible gun manufacturers. Many of them have already said they
    want to put the child safety locks on their new guns. Many of them are
    engaged in this technology.
        But what I want to do is to have the Government also fund some of
    the research, just as we funded the initial research that led to the
    Internet, just as we fund the initial research that is leading to the
    sequencing of the human genome. A lot of this basic research to solve
    big national problems often starts with Government funding. So I'd like
    to see the Government do its part.
        But I have asked the gun manufacturers to do so. And some of the
    responsible manufacturers have already said, ``Yes, we're going to go
    with the child safety locks, and we want the smart gun technology.'' I
    just think we ought to get there as quickly as we can, which is why I
    want the Government to invest as well.
        Ms. Couric. All the Presidential candidates seem to agree on this
    point, so you would think it could be accomplished. What is the NRA's
    biggest beef, in your estimation, about the technology that would enable
    only the person who owns a gun to actually fire it?
        The President. Well, first of all, I don't think that's accurate,
    that all the Presidential candidates do.
        Ms. Couric. Well, George W. Bush favors trigger locks, I understand.
    John McCain----
        The President. This morning.
        Ms. Couric. Pardon?
        The President. This morning. Senator McCain
    voted against the Brady bill.
        Ms. Couric. But he says he favors technology that would enable the
    gun user to wear a special bracelet. He said that last night.
        The President. They were against the Brady bill. They're against
    extending--closing the gun show loophole. They're against the licensing
    of handgun owners.
        But nobody could be against technology. So I hope that we can get
    100 percent of the Congress to at least vote for the research and the
    new technology.
        Ms. Couric. What is the NRA's biggest beef about smart guns?
        The President. I don't know that they'll be against smart guns, but
    they're basically against anything that requires anybody to do anything
    as a member of society that helps to make it safer. That is, if they
    were making this argument on car licensing or licensing of car drivers,
    they would say that everybody has an individual right to drive a car,
    and therefore, no lawful car owner should be required to undergo the
    terrible burden of getting a car license because there are some people
    who are irresponsible and shouldn't be driving cars.
        I mean, that's the essential argument they're making. They're saying
    guns are special, guns are different than cars, and the rights of
    individual citizens are far, far more important than the safety of
    society as a whole. That's their argument, and I just disagree with
    them.
        Ms. Couric. An NRA spokesman actually told us last night that this
    isn't about making guns safer, it's about prosecuting criminals, and
    that your Justice Department hasn't done enough in that area.
        The President. Well, we've increased gun prosecution since I've been
    here, and we have a lot of people in jail for it. All I can tell you is,
    we have a higher percentage of people in jail than all the other
    advanced countries, and they have a lower gun death rate. Why is that?
    That's because they don't have an NRA in their country, and they take
    sensible steps to protect children and society as a whole from people
    having guns who shouldn't have them, doing things they shouldn't do with
    them. You've got to keep guns away from criminals and children if you
    want a safe society.
        Look, if the NRA were arguing years ago in this vein, they'd be
    against airport metal detectors because, after all, everybody--most
    people that go through airport metal detectors are innocent. Why should
    we burden them with having to go through and empty their pockets and
    take out their money clips and all that because there's just a few
    criminals around? And you know, you're interfering with their individual
    rights to walk on an airplane. That's the argument they make. You
    shouldn't burden an individual law-abiding handgun owner, because

    [[Page 355]]

    most of them are lawful, just because there are a few criminals.
        But the point is that society takes steps with speed limits, with
    licensing laws, with airport metal detectors, and any number of other
    ways, where we all make a little bit of sacrifice in time and effort to
    comply with a system that makes us all freer. And we still get to do our
    lawful activity.
        So I just think they're wrong about that. They're saying that guns
    are different--guns are different than cars, guns are different than any
    other area of our national life where we seek for common safety, we
    protect ourselves from the people who would abuse our liberty, abuse our
    freedom, and abuse our safety. And I just think they're wrong about
    this, and I hope that a majority of the Congress will agree. And I hope
    that more and more members of the Republican Party will agree. As I say,
    we have had some few brave members of the Republican Party that have
    joined the vast majority of Democrats in trying to responsibly deal with
    this without in any way undermining the right of people to do legitimate
    hunting or sport shooting activities.
        And we can do this. We can make America a lot safer.
        Ms. Couric. Mr. President, before we go, in closing, when do you
    plan to invite congressional leaders to the White House to discuss the
    juvenile justice bill?
        The President. Well, I'd like them to come down next week, as soon
    as we can set it up, because we're running out of time, and we need to
    get out of this terrible logjam. And I hope that these tragedies will
    give a little impulse, a profound sense of obligation to do that. As
    again I say, nobody is trying to interfere with individual rights here.
    What we're trying to do is to promote the common safety of the American
    people, and we're not nearly safe enough. All you've got to do is look
    at these incidents.
        Can we eliminate every problem? No. Is there a silver bullet that
    will solve it overnight? No. Can we save a lot of lives, including a lot
    of children, 13 every day--13 funerals a day? You bet we can, and we
    ought to.
        Ms. Couric. Mr. President, again thank you very, very much for
    spending some time with us this morning. We really appreciate it.
        The President. Thank you.

    Note: The interview began at 7:08 a.m. in the Roosevelt Room at the
    White House. In his remarks, the President referred to Jamelle Andrew
    James, who was accused of supplying the gun used by 6-year-old Dedrick
    Owens to shoot 6-year-old classmate Kayla Rolland in Mount Morris
    Township, MI. Ms. Couric referred to Gov. George W. Bush of Texas.