    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
    [May 10, 2000]
    [Pages 889-896]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Diane Rehm of WAMU National Public
    Radio
    May 10, 2000

        Ms. Rehm.  Mr. President, thank you for joining us.
        The President.  I'm glad to do it.

    Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China/2000 Election

        Ms. Rehm.  It looks as though the normalized trade relations with
    China isn't likely to go through. Would you agree with that?
        The President.  I'm not sure yet.
        Ms. Rehm.  You're still not sure?
        The President.  We don't have the votes yet. I think we'll get the
    votes, because I think it's the right thing for the country. But I think
    it will be--I won't know for a few days yet.
        Ms. Rehm.  If you do, how might that hurt or help Mr. Gore in his
    bid for the Presidency?
        The President.  Well, I think that, on balance, it will help
    him because he's been a very strong
    supporter of this agreement and, generally, of our trade policy. And
    even though some of the strongest elements of the Democratic Party and
    some of our best friends are on the other side of this fight, it shows
    that he's willing to take an independent stand to do what he believes is
    right. And I think that's very, very important.
        I think that's something people will look to. And they might compare
    that, for example, with Governor Bush's going
    to Bob Jones University and defending his outreach to Jerry
    Falwell and the members of the far right in
    his party, and conclude that--our people, the people that we're
    disagreeing with are good folks, and we're proud to have them as a part
    of our party; we want them to. But we need a President who will make an
    independent judgment from time to time.

    [[Page 890]]

        Ms. Rehm.  So you think it's not going to hurt him?
        The President.  Yes, I think it's a net plus. I think that--let me
    just say this--I think the reverse is, it would be a problem for our
    country. That's the most important thing. I think it would be a big
    problem for our country if it didn't pass, because it would increase the
    chance that something bad would happen in that area; it would give aid
    and comfort to the reactionaries in China; and it would make it possible
    for people to question whether the Democrats were running away from our
    global responsibilities.
        Right now, that's the burden the Republicans have to bear, because
    they defeated the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. They opposed our
    efforts to lead a global march on ending the testing of nuclear weapons.
    And I think that was a terrible mistake by them. So it's a problem
    they'll have to come to grips with. I just don't want to see our party
    responsible for walking away from another big opportunity and
    responsibility of the United States.

    Million Mom March and Gun Safety Legislation

        Ms. Rehm.  The Million Mom March takes place this Sunday. How do you
    address the concerns of law-abiding citizens who own guns, who feel that
    any additional controls would be an infringement on their personal
    rights, on their second amendment rights?
        The President.  Well, I just disagree with them. I think that every
    law-abiding gun owner ought to want to keep guns out of the hands of
    criminals and children and should recognize that no strategy will
    succeed that doesn't have a lot of prevention.
        For example, I don't see why any gun owner could possibly object to
    closing the gun show loophole and the Brady background check. We now
    know these background checks have kept 500,000 felons, fugitives, and
    stalkers from buying handguns. I don't see why any law-abiding gun owner
    would object to having a photo ID and a license for anybody buying
    handguns that proves that, A, you've passed the background check and, B,
    you've passed a safety training course on a gun.
        We do that for cars. If you have to get a license to prove you can
    drive a car and that you're a law-abiding citizen and you have to
    observe seatbelt laws and speed limits, you don't hear people going
    around complaining about ``car control.'' They don't call it ``car
    control.'' They call it sensible public safety.
        I just think we need to look at the specifics of every proposal.
    Does this keep any law-abiding hunter out of the deer woods in deer
    season? No. Does it keep any law-abiding sport shooter away from his or
    her activities? No. Does it prevent any law-abiding gun owner who
    believes that he'll be safer having a gun in their home from having a
    gun in their home? No.
        So if the answers to those questions is no, but it would clearly
    keep more guns out of the hands of children and criminals, then we ought
    to be for it, and everybody ought to be for it. That's what I believe.

    President's Disappointments in Office

        Ms. Rehm.  You've had a number of successes during your
    administration. The economy is up. Unemployment is down. The crime rate
    is down. What has been your greatest disappointment or failure?
        The President.  I'm disappointed that we haven't been able to make
    health care available to all the working families of the country. You
    know, the very poorest people have health care through the Government
    Medicaid program. And we have extended health insurance to children of
    low income working families through the Children's Health Insurance
    Program, and we're still enrolling more children in that. But I'm very
    disappointed in that.
        And I'm disappointed that the two parties in Congress, once we
    became financially able to do it when we started running surpluses--we
    can save Social Security now for the baby boom generation, and as yet
    they haven't taken me up on even the easiest part of my proposal, which
    is to dedicate the savings we will get from paying down the debt,
    because of the Social Security taxes we pay--dedicate those savings from
    lower interest rates on the debt to the Trust Fund. If we did that, we
    could take the life of Social Security out to about 2054--just that--
    which would take it beyond the life expectancy of all but the most
    fortunate baby boomers and get this country over a big hump. Now, I
    think there are further Social Security reforms that should be enacted,
    but they'll have to await the election and probably a less--hopefully, a
    less partisan climate.

    [[Page 891]]

    Relations With Republican Congress

        Ms. Rehm.  Of course, from the time you first came into office,
    there's been this animosity between you and the Republicans in Congress,
    and some of the Democrats as well. What do you think it is that has
    created this climate of mistrust between you and the Congress?
        The President.  Well first of all, I disagree that there's very much
    among the Democrats. I have enjoyed, even in my first 2 years, I got a
    higher percentage of Democratic support for my programs than Presidents
    Johnson and Carter did, and Kennedy, as an historical fact. We didn't
    lose many Democrats. You always lose--some just disagree with you. So
    they've been quite good to me.
        I think what happened is, I had more partisan opposition than at any
    time in history, and I think there were two causes. I think some
    Republicans thought that the Democratic majority in Congress had been
    too hard on their Presidents, and so they thought it was payback time. I
    think there was some of that.
        But the overwhelming reason is that they resented the fact that they
    didn't have the White House. They thought that they owned the White
    House, and they thought they had found a formula that would always keep
    Democrats out of the White House. They would say we couldn't be trusted
    on the economy and foreign policy and national defense and welfare and
    crime, and we were going to tax people to death, and all the things they
    always said. And when it didn't work, I think they were very angry. And
    they decided that they would oppose me at every turn and in every way.
    I've had many of them come up to me and tell me that that's what they
    did.
        It was about power. It wasn't about all these things, and it had
    nothing to do with--oh, some of them may have very strong personal
    adverse feelings, but they're basically rooted in they thought that they
    owned the White House. And the people own the White House. I don't own
    it. The Democrats don't own it, either. But I think that's really what
    drove it.
        And I certainly hope that after this next election that they will
    moderate their conduct. But we'll just have to see. I don't personally
    have--you know, I worked with all these people. And I've worked with
    them, and I think it's important to point out that in spite of all the
    partisan animosity, we have gotten a great deal done here. We passed the
    Balanced Budget Act together. We passed welfare reform together. We
    passed the bill to put 100,000 teachers in the schools together and a
    lot of other really big--we passed financial services reform,
    telecommunications reform. We got a lot done together because, in the
    end, if we keep working--in the end, to get anything done, we have to
    work together.
        And I'd keep thinking, this is easing off, and we're making
    improvements. I have a lot of people that I have very good relationships
    with in the Republican caucus, and I will continue to just try to bring
    more of them around to the idea that we should all be in the business of
    governing. We have these elections on a regular basis, and before you
    know it, we have another one, and before you know it, there's a new
    crowd in town. And it's a terrible waste of energy to spend all your
    time in partisan fights.
        The thing that I'm most discouraged about right now is that the
    Senate has been here since January and has only approved 11 of my
    proposed appointments. I've got over 250 proposed appointments up there.
    And they can say, ``Well, this always happens in an election year.''
    That's simply not true. If you look at--it's true that the appointments
    process slows down in election years if you have a President of one
    party and a Senate of another. It slows down. But it doesn't come to a
    grinding halt like they're doing now. And again, this is about political
    power. But it's not good for the taxpayers. It's not good for the public
    interest. And I hope that I'll be able to persuade the Senate to resume
    fulfilling their constitutional responsibility to act on these
    appointments. And they ought to vote against them if they don't like
    them.
        Ms. Rehm.  There seemed to have been some personal animosity against
    you, personally, right from the start, before you left Arkansas.
        The President.  Yes, I think there was. But it was rooted in--
    there's a new book out by Joe Conason and Gene
    Lyons called ``The Hunting of the President''
    that explains what it was about. It was, they were afraid I was going to
    win. And they thought it would upset their automatic hold on the White
    House and their little formula. Maybe they didn't like me, but I think
    mostly what they didn't like was the prospect that they wouldn't win the
    White House forever and ever and ever.

    [[Page 892]]

        I think it's not too much to say that before the '92 election, they
    really thought they had found a formula and there would never be another
    Democratic President, not for a long, long, long time, that maybe a
    third party would have to come up before they'd ever be challenged. And
    it made them very angry.
        And I kept telling them that politics is about ideas and action.
    We've got elections all the time; nobody stays around forever. They need
    to relax and have a good time and go to work. Whenever they did, we got
    a lot done. We got a lot done together. I enjoyed working with them.
        But I think, to me, spending your time on personal animosity is
    highly counterproductive. Life is too short for that.

    Impact of 2000 Election

        Ms. Rehm.  How and to what extent do you think the character and the
    goals of the Federal Government might change if either George Bush or Al
    Gore is elected in November?
        The President.  Well, I think both the nature and the goals will
    change. I think if the Vice President--
    regardless, because the country is changing. And the environment in
    which our people live and, therefore, in which our Government operates
    will change.
        I think if the Vice President is
    elected, he will do what he said he would do, which is to stay with the
    economic policy that has brought us this unprecedented prosperity, but
    to modernize it. I think he will implement his--keep paying down the
    debt. He will continue to try to do more for the poor areas of our
    country and the cities and the rural areas that have been left behind.
    And I think he will try to save enough money to make sure we protect
    Social Security and Medicare and reform it for the baby boom generation
    and to continue to invest in education. So I think that's what he'll do.
        If Governor Bush gets elected, I think
    he'll do what he said he would do. I think it's not necessary to attack
    these people personally. I mean, most people do what they say they're
    going to do. And what Governor Bush said he was going to do is have a
    tax cut much bigger than the one I vetoed before, defense increases
    bigger than the ones that I proposed, and vouchers for our schools. And
    I believe if that happens, we'll basically be back to the Reagan-Bush
    economic philosophy, which is cut the revenues of the Government, even
    if it means going back to deficits and higher interest rates. And it
    will mean that we won't have much money left over to invest in education
    or the environment or health care. That's what they've--but I think you
    have to just look at what they say they're going to do and ask yourself
    what the consequences are.
        I think if Al Gore gets elected, he'll
    try to grow the economy and keep cleaning up the environment. I think if
    Governor Bush gets elected, he will do what
    he did in Texas. He will let the people who basically are the primary
    polluters control environmental policy. That's what he did in Texas. He
    got rid of all the environmental commissioners, appointed someone who
    represented the chemical industry, someone from the Farm Bureau, and
    someone who was a political activist. I think--but that's what they--we
    shouldn't be surprised if people do what they say they'll do.
        I think that the next President will get two to four appointments to
    the Supreme Court. So I think if the Vice President gets elected, he'll continue to appoint diverse judges
    who are committed to individual liberties and basically in the
    mainstream of American constitutional history, the way I've tried to do.
    And I think if Governor Bush gets elected,
    he'll appoint judges more like the ones appointed by the previous Reagan
    and Bush administrations. And if they get two to four appointments on
    the Supreme Court, I think  Roe  v.  Wade  will be repealed, and a lot
    of other things that have been a part of the fabric of our
    constitutional life will be gone. Because--and again, I just think--just
    look at what these people say they believe, both candidates, what they
    say they're going to do and assume that they will do it. There's been a
    lot of studies which show that, by and large, people who get elected
    President do what they say they're going to do.
        Ms. Rehm.  What about foreign policy, and the question of how the
    two might deal differently with issues of foreign policy?
        The President.  Well, the Vice President has a big advantage in the sense that he has worked on
    this for not only 8 years as Vice President, where he's had a major role
    in issues affecting our nuclear security and issues affecting biological
    and chemical warfare and our relationship with Russia, our relationship
    with South Africa, our relationship in the Middle East. So he's got a
    rich, real history here.

    [[Page 893]]

        Governor Bush, like me when I got
    elected, is Governor, and he served far less time than I did as
    Governor. But he would say, I'm sure if he were here, ``But my father
    was President, and I know all these big-time Republicans, and they're
    all for me. So I can get them all to come and give me good advice.'' And
    so I think, again, the best thing to do is to say that on the question
    of experience and record, I think the Vice President has the better claim there.
        But I'm more concerned about the positions that Governor Bush has taken because, again, I think you have to
    assume these candidates are honorable people and they will do what they
    say. He's opposed to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, and he says that
    he wants to build a much bigger missile defense system than the evidence
    warrants right now--it may support it later--no matter what the
    consequences are to the efforts we're making to reduce the nuclear
    weapons threat around the world.
        So I think that, you know, that gives me some pause. I think that's
    troublesome, because it could cause the country a lot of trouble in the
    next 4 or 5 years. And he says--that's where he says he is, and so I
    assume he--I believe he believes that.

    President's Role in the Democratic Party

        Ms. Rehm.  Mr. President, as your time here in the White House winds
    down, what role do you see for yourself in the Democratic Party now?
        The President.  You mean, right now, or in the future? Right now?
        Ms. Rehm.  Right now.
        The President. First of all, I'm trying to help as many of our
    candidates as possible. I'm trying to help as many of our candidates for
    the Senate and the House of Representatives. I will do whatever I can to
    help the Vice President in the fall. I will
    try to make sure that our side has enough funds to compete with the
    Republicans. They will have more money as they always do, but I think
    we've got a better message, and so I think if we've got enough money to
    get our message out, we'll be fine. So I expect to work on all that.
        I remember in '98, they outspent us by $100 million, and we still
    won seats in the House because we had a good message. We said we were
    for 100,000 teachers in our schools, and we were for modernizing our
    school facilities. We were for a Patients' Bill of Rights. We had a good
    specific set of things we were for. And we will in the fall.
        And so I'm going to do my best to just be a messenger for that and
    support other people. That's what I'm doing. I'm not a candidate
    anymore, so I get to go back to being a good citizen and be supportive
    of other people.

    President's Future Plans

        Ms. Rehm.  And what are you going to do as a good citizen after you
    leave the White House?
        The President.  Well, I haven't decided yet. In terms of any income-
    earning activities I might undertake, I think that it's premature for me
    to deal with that, because I need to wait as long as I possibly can--
    certainly until after the election and, if possible, when I leave
    office, to make final decisions on that.
        I intend to write a book. I intend to maintain my activities in
    areas that I care a lot about around the world, in supporting the
    peaceful resolution of racial and religious and ethnic conflicts,
    supporting my initiatives when I'm gone from office to provide economic
    empowerment to poor people at home and around the world. I'm interested
    very much in our continuing efforts to meet the challenge of global
    warming, which I think will dominate a lot of our concerns for the next
    20 to 30 years. So those are just three things I want to be involved in.
    And then I've got to build a library and a museum and a public policy
    center in Arkansas----
        Ms. Rehm.  Where are you going to live?
        The President.  Well, I'm going to live in New York with my
    wife, and then I'm going to be in
    Arkansas a few days a week while I'm building the library and museum.
    We're going to build an apartment there, so that I'll have a place there
    and a place in New York. So I expect to be back and forth between the
    two places and then traveling around a little bit.
        You know, I'll find something useful to do. I've never--every stage
    of my life I've always enjoyed. I've had a good time, and I'm not--I
    love this job. I'd do it forever if I could. But I'm not apprehensive,
    exactly, about what I'll do when I'm gone. I'll just have to think about
    it, and I don't want to spend too much time thinking about it while I'm
    here, because I'm trying to squeeze every last drop out of every minute
    I've got to be President.

    [[Page 894]]

    Memorable Aspects of the Presidency

        Ms. Rehm.  But you know, at the White House Correspondents' dinner,
    you certainly received a lot of acclaim as a wonderful comedian. I was
    in the audience, but there certainly seemed to be a little bit of
    wistfulness in your presentation. What are you going to miss most about
    being here?
        The President.  The job. The work. That's what I'll miss most. I'll
    miss the opportunity every day to push an agenda that I think is good
    for America and ordinary citizens and the future of this country. I will
    miss that terribly, because I love this work. I just love it.
        I will miss the people. I will miss living in the White House. The
    people who work here are wonderful, and it's a great place to live. I'll
    miss working in this beautiful office we're sitting in now. It's the
    most beautiful place I've ever worked. Because of the shape of the room
    and the size of the windows, there's always light here, even when it's
    raining outside. I'll miss Camp David. I'll miss the Marine Band. I'll
    miss flying on Air Force One. I'll miss a lot of things. But the thing
    I'll miss more than anything else is the chance to do this work for the
    American people every day. It is a joy.
        I've spent a lot of time since I've been here reading histories of
    other administrations, both ones that are very well-known and those that
    aren't. And I'm amazed at how many people, beginning with George
    Washington, complained about how hard it was to be President and how all
    their motives were suspect. George Washington said, once he got to be
    President, people treated him like he was a common criminal. [Laughter]
        And of course, in the beginning of the country, the politics was
    about as rough as it is now. The three periods which have been most
    partisan were, in the beginning, Jefferson and Adams, and then around
    the Civil War, and this time we're living through now.
        But a lot of people referred to--Harry Truman referred to the White
    House as a great white prison and all that, you know. And if they were
    serious, I must say I just disagree with them. I think--and I've had a
    pretty rough time here, but it's still--it's just part of the costs of
    doing business. And I think the job is a joy. I mean, it's just a gift
    to be able to do this kind of work. I've just loved it.

    Family Life in the White House

        Ms. Rehm.  What does 8 years in the White House do to a marriage?
        The President.  Oh, I think it's been good for ours, because I got
    to live above the store. You know, until Hillary started running for the Senate, we actually probably
    had more time together than we did previously. And of course, in the
    early years our daughter was finishing up junior high school and high
    school, and we were together at night a lot. You know, we talked about
    her schoolwork and what was going on in her life, and that was a lot of
    fun for us. Then, after Chelsea left and
    went off to college, we were able to go to Camp David more.
        This is really quite a wonderful place to live. It's a great place
    to--there's a swimming pool here, and Hillary and I spent a lot of happy
    days out there just talking and reading, or on Sunday afternoons up on
    the Truman balcony. I mean, you can get busy and drift apart, I guess,
    in any circumstances. But for us, we worked hard before we got here, and
    we had a lot of things to do, and we've probably had more time together
    in our time here than at any point in our marriage. And I've enjoyed
    that immensely. It's been wonderful for us.

    Outlook for the Future

        Ms. Rehm.  Looking ahead, when Chelsea is 50, what kind of a world
    is she going to see? Is it going to be better or worse than it is today?
        The President.  I think it will be better. No one can foresee the
    future, but I believe it will be. I think that it will be a world in
    which, first of all, the average life expectancy will be bumping 100
    years, because of the human genome discoveries and all the things that
    will happen.
        I think the world will be even smaller than it is now and that the
    ability to collapse time and space through travel and the Internet will
    be greater. I think that our familiarity with, understanding of
    different cultures and religions and racial groupings will be greater.
    And I think we will be a much more polyglot society, and I think we'll
    be much more comfortable with it.
        Ms. Rehm.  So you're optimistic.
        The President.  I'm very optimistic. I think the problems that we
    will have will be the flip side

    [[Page 895]]

    of the positive changes. That is, I think that the likelihood is that
    the security problems over the next 30 years--that's what you asked me
    about--will be from--we may have a conflict with other nations. I hope
    we won't. That's one of the reasons I hope this China initiative will
    pass. I hope we won't, but I think it's virtually certain that there
    will be kind of a global rough alliance between the terrorists, the
    gunrunners, the narcotraffickers, the organized criminals. I think it's
    virtually certain that the technological advances which may allow us to
    put computers and DNA strands together in a way that are exponentially
    powerful may make it possible for the bad guys to have very small--I
    mean, less than the palm of your hand--sized chemical, biological, and
    nuclear weapons. We don't know.
        So we're going to have--and I think the enemies of the nation-state,
    the enemies of the ordered society, under the guise of religious or
    ideological causes or maybe just making their purses bigger, will
    probably be a bigger security threat 20 to 30 years from now than other
    nations will be to America and to others.
        I think that we will--unless we're prepared to have a much bleaker
    future, two big challenges we'll have to take on beyond our borders are
    global warming, which if we don't deal with it is going to be very
    serious, and we'll also have to view global public health problems as
    our own. We've got to roll back the AIDS crisis, and we've got to deal
    with malaria. We've got to deal with TB in Africa and other places
    around the world. And we have to keep working until every child in the
    world has access to clean water. We still lose as many kids from
    dysentery and diarrhea and just basically poison-polluted water as we do
    to these diseases every year.
        So I think that Americans will be much more in tune to all that and
    feel much more immediately affected by what goes on in Africa or
    Southeast Asia or the Indian subcontinent or other places, than they do
    today.

    President's Faith

        Ms. Rehm.  I have one last question. What is your concept of God,
    and how has that belief influenced your Presidency?
        The President.  Well, I believe in a God who is both a Creator, who
    created the world, who oversees the world, and who has provided an
    eternal existence for human beings. I believe in the eternal life of the
    soul.
        And I think that that has helped me a lot. It's given me a lot of
    perspective. It's given me a lot of ability to withstand the bad times,
    to believe that I could overcome my own shortcomings, to understand why
    I had to forgive people that I thought were being unfair to me, just as
    I asked them to forgive me, and basically to keep my eyes on the bigger
    things in life and to keep trying to grow personally, even as I was
    trying to do this job for the American people.
        It's very important to me. And I think if you have a concept of the
    eternity of the human spirit, I think, as the creation of God, I think
    it makes it a lot easier to live with whatever happens. It keeps your
    head on straight when things are going well and keeps your back up and
    your spirits high when things are going poorly.
        See that rock there? I always tell people this story. That rock came
    off the Moon. Neil Armstrong picked that off the Moon in 1969, and he
    brought it to me last year for the 30th anniversary of the Moon walk.
    It's a vacuum-packed rock. And it's been carbon dated at 3.6 billion
    years old. Now, when people come in here and they get real mad at me or
    they're real upset about something, sometimes I say, ``See that rock?
    It's 3.6 billion years old. We're all just passing through here. Chill
    out. It's going to be all right.'' [Laughter]
        Presidents need things that help them stay centered and keep
    perspective. It's very bad to think about yourself very much in this
    job. I don't mean in quiet moments, in reading, trying to build your
    personal life; I don't mean that. But I mean, most of the time when
    people attack you, it's just part of the job. They're supposed to.
    That's part of the deal.
        Presidents need devices, routines, systems, reminders, and friends
    and family to keep their focus on the American people. Because you're
    just here for a little while, and if you get all caught up in the things
    you started asking me about, the personal animosities and the partisan
    fights and all that, then you basically give a victory to your
    adversaries by letting them define how you spend your time and how you
    shape your feelings.
        I used to tell the young people here that our job was to do the job
    we came here to do for the American people. Their job, they thought, was
    to stop us from doing our job.

    [[Page 896]]

    They could only win if we helped them by letting them get inside our
    heads and our hearts. And if we just kind of kept focused on what we
    came here to do, it was probably going to work out all right. So far it
    has.
        Ms. Rehm.  Thank you, Mr. President.
        The President.  Thank you.

     Note:  The interview was taped at 3 p.m. in the Oval Office at the
    White House on May 10 for later broadcast. The transcript was released
    by the Office of the Press Secretary on May 11. In his remarks, the
    President referred to Gov. George W. Bush of Texas; and Jerry Falwell,
    chancellor, Liberty University.