    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
    [May 4, 2000]
    [Pages 834-840]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Webside Chat With Tracy Smith of Channel One in
    St. Paul
    May 4, 2000

        Ms. Smith.  So now we're going to go live, to the live webcast. So
    everyone out there watching us on your computer, thank you so much for
    joining us. Welcome to everybody. Thank you, City Academy. And thank
    you, Mr. President.
        The President.  Thank you, Tracy. Are we ready to start?
        Ms. Smith.  We are ready to start.
        The President.  Well, let me begin by thanking Channel One and the
    Channel One schools and all those who are taking part in this
    Presidential Webside Chat.
        This has a rich history, really. Fifty years ago and more, President
    Roosevelt used the radio to bring democracy into the homes of the
    American people, with his Fireside Chats. Thirty years later, President
    Kennedy regularly used televised press conferences to do the same thing.
    And I think it's quite appropriate to use this newest medium of
    communication to answer more questions from more students. And I think
    we ought to get right to it.
        All of you know that I'm speaking to you from the City Academy in
    St. Paul, Minnesota. It was the Nation's first charter school. I believe
    in these schools, and I've tried to promote them and want to do more,
    and that's why I'm here.
        The most important thing that we can do today is to reach out and
    answer questions from the students of America, so let's begin. How do
    you want to do it, Tracy?

    Education and Technology

        Ms. Smith.  Well, our first question is actually from Amy, who is
    from City Academy--we do have it in the computer here; it's question
    number zero--which is: What more can education do to improve people's
    lives and move them out of poverty?
        The President.  Well, I think the obvious answer is just to look at
    the difference in the job prospects and the income prospects of people
    who have education and people who don't. Education in this economy,
    where we have the lowest unemployment rate in 30 years--if you have
    enough education, you have almost a 100 percent guarantee that you'll
    have a good job and you can move out of poverty.
        But it is, by and large, necessary to do more than graduate from
    high school. Most people, to have good job prospects, need at least 2
    years of college. And I have worked very hard in the last 7 years to
    open the doors of college to everyone. We've increased the Pell grants.
    We've made student loans less expensive. And we have given a tax credit
    worth $1,500 a year to virtually all Americans for the first 2 years of
    college. So the most important thing for you to know is, you'll get out
    of poverty if you have an education, but you need more than high school.
        Ms. Smith.  All right, great. A tech question, of course, since
    we're talking to a bunch of techies out there. This is question number
    200: Mr. President, my math teacher uses technology

    [[Page 835]]

    to teach us every day. Do you think this is an important part of
    learning?
        The President.  Yes. I don't think it's a substitute for knowing the
    basics, but it facilitates learning.
        And one of the things that we know now--and I bet a lot of you here
    at City Academy have learned this--one of the things we know now is that
    people learn in different ways. And sometimes, like in grade school,
    some kids will be identified wrongly as being slow learners or maybe not
    very smart when in fact they learn in different ways. We know that some
    kids learn by repetition, doing basic math on a computer, better. Some
    kids learn by listening better. Some learn by reading better. So I think
    that's important.
        But the main thing that technology is going to do for education is
    something entirely different. Look at this. We've already got over 2,000
    questions; we're talking to people all over the country here. Because of
    technology, we can bring what's in any textbook, anyplace in the world,
    not only to a place like the City Academy in St. Paul; we can bring it
    to poor villages in Africa, in Latin America, in east Asia. Technology
    can enable us to bring all the knowledge stored anywhere to anybody who
    lives anywhere, if they have the computer--the poorest people in the
    world. And so it is going to be, I think, the most important fact about
    education for the next 20 or 30 years.
        Ms. Smith.  I guess the followup question to that is question number
    721: Mr. President, how can the Federal Government help provide enough
    money to have enough computers in school for everyone to be able to have
    access to a good computer?
        The President.  Well, let me tell you what we have done. In 1996 we
    passed something in Congress called the Telecommunications Act. And Vice
    President Gore led our fight to require in
    that law something called the E-rate, the education rate, to guarantee
    that all schools and libraries could afford to log on to the Internet.
    It's worth over $2 billion a year in subsidies to schools. That's why 95
    percent of our schools are hooked up now to the Internet, connected to
    the Internet, because they can afford it.
        I have also worked very hard to try to get the Government to give
    all the computers we could to schools and to go out and work with the
    private sector to get more computers in the schools. Frankly, the big
    issue now is making sure that the teachers are well-trained to maximize
    the potential of the computers and the educational software. You know,
    most teachers will tell you that in every school, there are always a few
    kids that know more about all this than the teachers do. So what we've
    had to do is to go back and re-emphasize training the teachers.
        And let me just say one other thing. I believe that the next big
    move will be to try to make personal computers in the home available to
    more and more people who can't afford them now, lower income people.
        When Tom was up here talking earlier, he
    said he was born in Mexico. I went to a school district in New Jersey
    where most of the kids are first-generation immigrants. And the school
    district, with Bell Atlantic, put computers in the homes of more and
    more of the parents so they could talk to the principals and the
    teachers during the day. And it had a dramatic impact on the learning of
    the kids and on reducing the dropout rate. And the kids, of course,
    could then use the computers at home as well.
        So I think that's the next big frontier. Can we make the use of the
    computer as universal as the use of the telephone is today? I wish I
    were going to be around, but I think that's a big frontier the next
    President should try to cross.

    School Violence

        Ms. Smith.  This is question number 2,173. We are getting a lot of
    questions today. This is from Lawrence, from Fayetteville, Arkansas.
        The President.  I've been to this school. This is the town that
    Hillary and I were married in. I lived there when I went home to
    Arkansas and taught in the university.
        Ms. Smith.  All right. He's in the seventh grade, and he wants to
    know what you plan to do about making students feel safer in today's
    classrooms.
        The President.  Well, first of all, I think the only way to make you
    feel safer is to try to make sure you are safer. But you should know
    that, in spite of these horrible examples of school violence we've
    seen--we just celebrated the anniversary of Columbine; we had the
    terrible incident in Arkansas and Mississippi, Oregon, lots of other
    places--that, overall, school violence has gone down. And I think the
    main thing you have to do is to keep guns and weapons out of schools, to
    try to keep people off

    [[Page 836]]

    the school grounds that don't belong there, and to have a zero-tolerance
    policy for guns in the schools and for violence.
        Then I think it's also important to have positive ways of dealing
    with conflict. I think there need to be peer mediation groups in
    schools. I think students need to have access to counselors and, if they
    need it, to mental health services. I think that we have to teach young
    people that there are nonviolent ways that they can resolve their
    legitimate conflicts, and there are nonviolent ways they have to get
    their own anger and frustration out.
        So I think there's partly a law enforcement strategy to keep guns
    and knives and other weapons out of the hands of kids at school, to keep
    people off the school grounds who shouldn't be here. And then I think
    there has to be a positive human development effort to get people to
    adopt nonviolent strategies for dealing with their anger, their hurt,
    and their conflicts.

    Education Infrastructure

        Ms. Smith.  Let's do 201. This is from Elena--I hope I'm saying that
    right: President Clinton, do you think that the physical condition of a
    school building has an effect on learning in the classroom?
        The President.  Yes, I do. If it's bad enough--in two or three ways.
    First of all, I think if a school is in terrible physical condition,
    when children go through a school every day, if the roof is leaking and
    the windows are broken and it's stiflingly hot--I mean, young people are
    not stupid; they're smart. They say, ``Okay, all these politicians and
    teachers say we're the most important people in the world. If we're the
    most important people in the world and education is the most important
    thing in the world, why are they letting me go to school in this wreck
    of a building where I'm miserable?'' That's the first thing.
        The second problem is, it's actually harder to teach in difficult
    physical facilities. I was at a school, actually a very beautiful
    school, yesterday in Davenport, Iowa. It's 93 years old. And there are
    rooms in that building where there were no electrical outlets in the
    walls, and there are all kinds of problems there. It's a magnificent
    building. They shouldn't tear it down, but they need to modernize it.
        And so I do, I think it makes a big difference. That's why for over
    2 years now I've been trying to get Congress to adopt a plan to let the
    Federal Government help build 6,000 new schools and help repair 5,000
    more every year for the next 5 years, because it's a terrible problem.
    The average school building in Philadelphia is 56 years old--65 years
    old; in New Orleans, over 60 years old. In New York, there are school
    buildings that are heated still by coal-fired furnaces.
        And also, there are all these overcrowded schools. I went to a
    little grade school in Florida with 12 housetrailers out behind it to
    house the kids--12, not one or two. So yes, I think it makes a big
    difference.

    School Uniforms

        Ms. Smith.  Let's go to--here's one I know you have an opinion
    about--2,987. This is Brandon: What do you think about school uniforms?
        The President.  I support them in the early grades. I think--and
    I'll tell you why. I have been a big supporter of school uniforms--well,
    I support them for high schools, too, if people want them. But let me
    just say, we have a lot of evidence that particularly in elementary and
    junior high schools, school uniforms perform two very valuable
    functions: They promote discipline, and they promote learning. Why?
    Because in the early years, school uniforms remove the economic
    distinctions between kids.
        I went to a junior high school out in California, in the third-
    biggest school district in California, where they have a school uniform
    policy. And I had an inner-city young boy talking and a young girl who
    was probably upper middle class. And both of them loved the uniform
    policy because they said it removed the distinctions between kids, and
    it removed the pressure to try to show where you were in some economic
    or social hierarchy by what you were wearing.
        But I also can tell you, there is lots and lots of evidence that it
    reduces conflict and violence and promotes an atmosphere of discipline
    among younger people. So I think--you know, I really think that having
    that policy is good. I've seen it all over America. I've done everything
    I could to promote it. I've been ridiculed and attacked and made fun of
    for promoting it, but I believe in them. I think they do good. I do.
        Ms. Smith.  We've done lots of stories on that. I don't think every
    kid in America agrees with you, but----

    [[Page 837]]

        The President.  I know they don't. [Laughter] You ought to see my
    mail about it. [Laughter]

    Community Service

        Ms. Smith.  Question number 296. This is from Melinda, from Dublin
    High School. We don't have where Dublin is.
        The President.  Ohio, I think, isn't it?
        Ms. Smith.  Is it Ohio?
        The President.  I think so.
        Ms. Smith.  Do you believe that students should be required to do
    community service as a part of their core curriculum?
        The President.  Yes. That's the short answer. I do. Maryland is the
    only State now that requires community service as a requirement. To get
    a high school diploma in Maryland, at some point you have to do some
    community service.
        You know, I've been a big supporter of community service. I founded
    the AmeriCorps program, and now 150,000 young people have served their
    communities and earned some money to go to college through various
    AmeriCorps projects. We started a program called America Reads. There
    are now people from 1,000 different colleges going into the grade
    schools of America, helping make sure all of our third graders can
    read--and a lot of retired groups, too.
        I believe community service is one of the most important things that
    happens in America to bind us together across the lines that divide us.
    And in 1987, 13 years ago, I was on a commission on middle schools which
    recommended that community service be made a part of the curriculum. So
    I've been a believer of this for a long time.
        I would leave it to the schools or the school districts to decide
    what the young people should do. But I think it does us all good to get
    out and deal with people who are drastically different from ourselves
    and who--no matter how bad we think our lives are, there is always
    somebody with a bigger problem and a bigger need and a bigger challenge.
    And I just think it's good for people to serve other people in the
    community. So I would make it a part of the curriculum. I would.

    Assistance for Higher Education

        Ms. Smith.  Okay, this is 3,348, from Mission Junior High, in Texas:
    What is being done to ensure that economically disadvantaged students
    are provided the opportunities for higher education?
        The President.  Good question. Let me give you all the answers. This
    has been a big priority of mine. Here's what we've done. Since I've been
    President, we have increased the number and the amount of the Pell
    grants, which is the scholarship the Federal Government gives to the
    poorest students. We have also changed the student loan program, so that
    it's now cheaper to take out a loan if you get one of the so-called
    direct loans, issued directly from the Federal Government. The interest
    rate is lower. And then when you get out of school, if you take a job
    that has a modest salary, you can limit your repayments to a certain
    percentage of your income. It's saved, in 5 years, $8 billion in student
    loan costs for America's students.
        We've raised the number of work-study positions from 700,000 to a
    million. And we passed the HOPE scholarship. That's the biggest deal.
    It's a $1,500 tax credit for the first 2 years of college, and then also
    for the junior and senior year and for graduate schools you get a tax
    break. And I'm now trying to get Congress to adopt a law which allows
    people to deduct up to $10,000 in college tuition from any tax burdens
    they have. So I think that will help.
        If that passes, I think we can honestly say that income is not a
    barrier to going to college. Between the scholarships, the loans, the
    work-study programs, and the HOPE scholarship tax credit, which 5
    million families have already used, that's why college-going--67 percent
    of the high school graduates in America are now going on to college. And
    I want to get it up as close to 100 as we can get it. So if you have any
    other ideas in Mission, Texas, let me know. But we've done a lot on
    this, and I think it's very important.

    Incentives for Teachers

        Ms. Smith.  Question 4,641, this is Mike from Buffalo: What do you
    think the Federal Government can do to attract quality teachers to
    inner-city public schools?
        The President.  Well, we've got a little program we started a couple
    of years ago--this is a really good question--based on the old health
    service corps idea where we would pay off people's loans to medical
    schools if they'd go practice medicine in isolated rural areas or inner
    city areas. So we have a small program now to say

    [[Page 838]]

    to young people, ``If you'll go back and teach in an inner-city school
    where there is a teacher shortage, we'll pay off your college loans.''
    And I think that will help. I would like to see that program
    dramatically expanded.
        I think the other thing is, though, we're going to have to pay these
    young people more if we want them to do that. In the next few years we
    could have a real problem with teacher shortage, because we've got the
    largest student body in American history. You finally--all of you are
    bigger than the baby boom generation I was a part of, for the last 2
    years. We have about 2 million teachers slated to retire over the coming
    5 to 8 years. And we have a greater need for teachers than ever before
    because our student bodies are more diverse, in terms of language and
    background and culture.
        So I think the States and the Federal Government are going to have
    to look at this. I'm trying to put 100,000 more teachers out there now
    in the early grades. I know the Vice President has said that he believes
    we ought to have--the Federal Government should help the States and
    school districts hire 600,000 more over the next 4 years after that. But
    this is going to be a big issue.
        My own view is, the best way to get young people to go into the
    inner cities, though, is to defray the cost of their own education--say,
    ``If you teach for 2, 3, 4 years, you get this much knocked off''--
    because I have found that there is a great desire, again, for community
    service. And there is a lot of interest in doing this if we can make it
    reasonably attractive.

    Home Schooling

        Ms. Smith.  Question 2,627, this is Brenna, from Lamar: President
    Clinton, what are your views on parents home schooling their children?
        The President.  I believe two or three things about home schooling.
    I've had a lot of experience with this, because I was a Governor at a
    time when this was being debated around America.
        I think that States should explicitly acknowledge the option of home
    schooling, because it's going to be done anyway. It is done in every
    State in the country. And therefore, the best thing to do is to get the
    home schoolers organized, if they're not organized in your State, deal
    with them in a respectful way, and say, ``Look, there is a good way to
    do this and a not so good way to do this, but if you're going to do
    this, your children have to prove that they're learning on a regular
    basis. And if they don't prove that they're learning, then they have to
    go into a school, either into a parochial or a private school or a
    public school. But if you're going to home school your kids, the
    children have to learn. That's the public interest there.''
        And that's what we did in Arkansas. The Home School Association
    strongly supported it, accountability for what their children were
    learning. There will always be, in any given State, a certain percentage
    of people, normally a small percentage, for reasons of personal values
    or educational philosophy, will want to do that. And most of the time
    they're very dedicated parents, deeply committed to what they're doing.
    And I can tell you this: It's going to happen regardless, so it's better
    to have laws which have standards on it.
        From my personal point of view, I never--it wasn't an option in our
    family, but if it had been I wouldn't have done it, because I wanted my
    daughter to go to school where she would be exposed to all different
    kinds of people and see how the larger society worked and be a part of
    it. But I think that we should explicitly make that option available; we
    should respect the people who choose it; but we ought to say, ``If you
    do it, your children have to demonstrate that they know what they're
    supposed to know when they're supposed to know it.''
        Ms. Smith.  Just an update, we've received more than 10,000
    questions so far. Pretty good.
        The President.  I need to give shorter answers. [Laughter]

    Goals of Education

        Ms. Smith.  Question 4,154, this is Howard from Providence: Do you
    consider the goal of public education to be to make someone ready for
    employment, practical, or to make someone a well-rounded, enlightened
    individual?
        The President.  Both. That is, I think--when I say ready for
    employment, if you're talking about getting through high school, I've
    already said I don't think that will make most people ready for
    employment.
        We live in a world in which what you know is important, but what
    you're capable of learning is even more important, because the stock of
    knowledge is doubling once every 5 years, more or less. So I think that
    being able to be a useful member of society is important. But I also
    think being able to be a good citizen and having a

    [[Page 839]]

    liberal arts background is important. So I think we should pursue both.
        I've never thought of education as purely a utilitarian thing, just
    something that is a meal ticket. It also makes life more interesting.
    All these young people here--you know, if you develop the ability to
    read and to think and to feel comfortable with ideas and emotions and
    concepts, it makes life more interesting. It makes your own life more
    fulfilling. So I think education should both prepare you for the world
    of work and help you live a more fulfilling life and be a better
    citizen.

    Standards Testing

        Ms. Smith.  Okay, this is question 5,492. This is Eliza from New
    York: How can the testing system be changed so that teachers are not
    pressured to the point that they are cheating for the kids? Don't you
    see it as a flaw in the system more than in the teachers? I guess
    they're talking about high-stakes standards testing.
        The President.  Yes, well, here's the problem. First of all, I think
    that it is almost unavoidable, if you believe, as I do, that there has
    to be some measure at some point along the way in school of whether
    young people have actually learned what their diplomas say they have
    learned. And what I think is important--the way--I can tell you how it
    can be changed so that the teachers aren't pressured to cheat: You can
    have one or more second chances.
        Ms. Smith.  So if you failed the test----
        The President.  Yes, yes. Let me give you an example. In Chicago,
    for example, which most people believed a few years ago had the most
    troubled big-city school system in the country, they adopted a no-
    social-promotion strategy. And if you didn't pass the exams and make
    appropriate grades, you couldn't go on. But they gave 100 percent of the
    people a chance to go to summer school and do well. As a result of that,
    today, the Chicago summer school is--listen to this--it's the sixth-
    largest school district in America, just the kids going to summer
    school. But as a result of that, there aren't very many people who are
    held back, and that dramatically reduces the tension to cheat.
        I think an even better system is to make sure that all the kids who
    are having trouble, and particularly all the schools that are low
    performing, have really rich and substantive after-school programs,
    weekend programs, as well as summer school programs, so that the tests
    measure whether the children are learning.
        Look, we know nearly--literally right at 100 percent of the people
    can learn what they need to know to go from grade to grade. You know,
    this whole business that all children can learn is not just a slogan. So
    I think it's very important not to blame the children when the system
    fails them.
        So the answer is, to reduce the tension to cheat, is to have a lot
    of second chances but to make sure that when a young person is told,
    ``You get to go on because you learned something,'' that the stuff has
    really been learned.

    Education Then and Now

        Ms. Smith.  We want to squeeze in just one more question, question
    249, from Leah in Cybervillage: Mr. President, how would you compare
    your education in grade school to public education today?
        The President.  Well, I think first of all, in many ways, it's
    better today, although one of the things I will say is I was very
    blessed; I had great teachers. I had--my sixth grade teachers, Kathleen
    Scher, was typical of the teachers of the early--the first 50, 60 years
    in this country. She was a lady who--she never married; she lived with
    her cousin. They were both teachers, and they lived to be 90 years old.
    And I corresponded with her until she died. She came to see me once a
    year. We were friends, and she was a great, devoted teacher.
        The discrimination against women in the workplace in the first part
    of this century worked to drive the smartest and most gifted and most
    dedicated of public servants among women into the classroom. They were
    teachers and nurses--women--because that's what they could do. And the
    end of discrimination among women, which has been a great thing for
    women, has given women lots of other options.
        But I had good teachers. So that's the good thing I will say about
    that. I was very fortunate and blessed. But I went to segregated
    schools, which I resented at the time. I knew it was wrong, before the
    civil rights movement. And it's better today that we have a diverse
    student body, and we're all learning to live together and work together
    in school.
        There were no computers, although we read a lot. And at the time, it
    was assumed that most people would not go to college, instead

    [[Page 840]]

    of that most people would. So in that sense, I think things are better
    today.
        Now, violence was having a fist-fight on the playground. Nobody had
    a gun. So there was less fear. The only thing you ever had to fear was
    whether somebody that hated you was going to beat you up. You never had
    the fear that somebody would pull a knife or a gun. So I'd say those
    were the differences.
        But if you look, on balance, we're better off today than we were
    when I was in grade school. We just have to deal with today's
    challenges. There will never be a time that's perfect and without
    challenges. But we're better off being integrated than segregated. We're
    better off with the new technology. We're better off with the assumption
    that we ought to try to prepare every kid and give every child the
    chance to go to college. That's my view.
        Ms. Smith.  As you see from the number of questions, we could do
    this all day, but we're out of time.
        The President.  These are great questions--I mean, great.
        Ms. Smith.  Aren't they great? There are so many, one after the
    other.
        The President.  I wish that they all had yes/no answers; I'd just
    run down. [Laughter]
        Ms. Smith.  You know what, they can all E-mail you, right?
    [Laughter] Just kidding.
        Well, I want to thank you so much for being here, Mr. President.
    This was a treat. I want to also thank the distinguished guests that
    were here, thank City Academy, thank Yahoo! for providing this chat
    auditorium, and of course, all of the students across the country who
    logged in and participated in this. Sorry we couldn't get to all of you.
    Great questions.
        The President.  Thank you. Great job. Thank you.

    Note: The question-and-answer session was taped at 10:13 a.m. in
    gymnasium at the City Academy and was broadcast on-line via the
    Internet. In his remarks, the President referred to Tomas Gonzalez, 1994
    City Academy graduate.