    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (2000, Book I)]
    [March 31, 2000]
    [Pages 761-766]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Leonardo DiCaprio for ABC
    News' ``Planet Earth 2000''
    March 31, 2000

    Climate Change

        Mr. DiCaprio. Mr. President, I want to thank you very much for your
    time. And as you know, I'm neither a politician nor a journalist, but
    being given the opportunity to sit down with you here and talk about an
    issue like global warming was an opportunity as a concerned citizen that
    I couldn't pass up.
        So my first question is, global warming is obviously a controversial
    topic among scientists and politicians. What is your understanding of
    what the effects of climate change will have on our future if
    preventative steps aren't taken immediately?
        The President.  Well, let me, first of all, thank you for your
    interest in this because I think it's important that we get citizens
    more involved in it; and secondly say, I don't think it's all that
    controversial a topic among scientists. There are a few who say that
    it's not proven, but we know that the hottest years in recorded history,
    and certainly in the last 600 years, that 9 of the hottest 11 years have
    occurred in the last decade.
        So, the climate is changing, and the globe is warming at an
    unsustainable rate. And if it is not slowed and ultimately reversed,
    what will happen is, the polar ice caps will melt more rapidly; sea
    levels will rise; you will have the danger of flooding in places like
    the precious Florida Everglades or the sugarcane fields of Louisiana;
    island nations could literally be buried. The whole climate of the
    United States, for example, could be changed where you would have more
    flooding, more heat waves, more storms, more extreme weather events
    generally.
        And then you'll have some public health consequences. For example,
    we're already seeing in Africa, for example, malaria being found at
    higher and higher altitudes where it used to be too cool for the
    mosquitoes.
        So there will be a lot of very bad, more dramatic weather events.
    There will be a shift in the patterns of agricultural production. There
    will be flooding that will be quite bad, and there will be more public
    health crises.

    Raising Public Awareness

        Mr. DiCaprio. While growing up, I always felt that environmental
    issues were constantly overlooked, and I watched people band together
    for various causes which seemed to come and go, and it was almost like
    they were going in and out of style. So how do we take a misunderstood
    issue like climate change and not only raise awareness but make its
    prevention an ongoing commitment?
        The President.  Well, I think we have to make climate change a local
    and a personal matter in the same way other successful environmental
    issues are. You know, since I've been here, we've been able to
    strengthen the quality of our air, strengthen the quality of our water.
    We've set aside more land for protection and protected forests than
    virtually any administration in history, except those of the two
    Roosevelts, because they were things people could understand and
    identify with, and they knew how to advocate for, and they understood
    the benefits.
        So I think we have to bring this down to practical applications and
    convince people that they can do something about it, number one; and
    number two, we have to talk about the first question you asked me--what
    the consequences of not doing anything.
        But there's so much we can do. We started a project here at the
    White House called the Greening of the White House. Just by changing the
    lighting in this whole building, we lowered our electric bills by
    $100,000 a year. Then we put in a different sort of roofing system which
    kept out more heat and cold. Then we put in a more energy-efficient
    heating system and

    [[Page 762]]

    water system. We brought more energy-efficient equipment--copiers,
    computers--all with the Energy Star label, which is a totally voluntary
    thing the Department of Energy provides.
        Now, these are things that businesses all across America could be
    doing. They're things that homes all across America could be doing.
    We've worked with the Home Builders to help build lower cost housing
    that will cut energy use by 50 percent. There's one housing development
    built in the Inland Empire out in southern California, east of L.A., for
    lower income working people where the average utility bills are 65
    percent lower than in houses of comparable size in the rest of
    California--just by putting the most modern, thin solar panels on the
    roofs, by having sensible insulation, by having energy-efficient
    lighting, and by taking new windows that let in more light and keep out
    more heat and cold.
        These things are out there now, and I think when people know there's
    actually something they can do, as well as what the consequences of our
    not acting and not pushing Congress and other countries to act are, then
    I think you'll see action.

    Energy-Efficiency Incentives

        Mr. DiCaprio.  Well, my other question pertaining to that is, if
    there was a profit incentive there, would that make us pay more
    attention?
        The President.  Yes, there should be more of a profit incentive. I
    mean, right now, for example, if you take the most energy-efficient
    lighting, it costs you more now, up front, but it lasts so much longer,
    eventually you turn a profit. And this is true in many processes in all
    the energy fields.
        So what I have proposed to the Congress is that we do basically two
    things. First of all, we give significant tax breaks to consumers to buy
    energy-efficient products of all kinds, and that we also give tax breaks
    for people to manufacture and develop them. And then, that we spend more
    money on research, like the project we've had that the Vice
    President headed for new generation
    vehicles, that we work with the auto companies and the autoworkers union
    to develop more energy-efficient vehicles and to develop alternative
    forms of fuel, including biofuels, which could dramatically change the
    whole future with regard to the greenhouse gases we've put into the
    atmosphere.
        So there's a lot more we can do, and we ought to provide tax
    incentives to the private sector to help us. But what I want to drive
    home is that right now it is no longer necessary, in order to grow our
    economy, to put more greenhouse gases which cause global warming into
    the atmosphere. You don't have to burn more oil and coal to get richer
    now--not in America, not anywhere else.

    International Cooperation

        Mr. DiCaprio.  Now, in Kyoto, in the 1997 Global Conference on
    Climate Change, it asked industrialized countries to drastically reduce
    their greenhouse gas emissions. And when we tried to enforce such
    protocols in developing countries, they came right back to us and said
    that the U.S. is responsible for a quarter of the greenhouse gases that
    are going into the atmosphere. How can we not practice what we preach?
        The President.  Well first, I think we should practice what we
    preach. And that's why I think it's so important that the Congress pass
    the budget that I recommended, that would dramatically increase our
    investment in developing the kinds of technologies and alternative fuels
    that would cut our greenhouse gas emissions.
        But I also believe that we have a big stake in working with other
    countries to convince them that they, too, can grow without increasing
    greenhouse gas emissions. For example, no matter how much we cut
    emissions in the United States, since this is a global problem, unless
    we also get China and India and the countries that have the big rain
    forests to work with us, we're going to be in real trouble.
        So, for example, when I was in Bangladesh recently, I announced a
    debt-for-nature swap that we were going to help finance with them. I
    signed a bill to do the same thing with the South American rain forest
    last year. In India, we signed an agreement by which they committed that
    as they continue to grow and need more power, that they'll have more and
    more coming from natural and renewable sources in the future, so that we
    can work together, because it is a global problem.
        But we should lead the way. And since we have already so much
    technology, and since, as I've just explained, just with these minor
    things we cut the power bills here at the White House by $100,000, and
    we're going to do it across

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    the Federal Government--if the Federal Government alone will do what we
    did at the White House, we'll save $750 million a year, and it will be
    the equivalent in terms of greenhouse gases and climate change of taking
    1.7 million cars off the road. We should be doing that.
        But we should also work with other countries. I tell other
    countries, the developing countries, ``I'm not asking you to give up
    your growth; I'm not asking you to give jobs up. I'm asking you to
    pursue a different pattern of energy use, which will give you more
    growth, more jobs, and a healthier population over the long run.'' So I
    think this really is a win-win issue here. This is not the way it used
    to be 30, 40 years ago. You can grow an economy and use less energy if
    you do it right.

    Raising Public Awareness

        Mr. DiCaprio.  Why do you think this issue is so constantly
    overlooked, and why do you think people don't take it seriously enough?
    And for you, is it as important as something like health care or
    education?
        The President.  Oh, yes, over the long run, it's one of the two or
    three major issues facing the world over the next 30 years. I think it's
    because it takes a long time for the climate to change in a way that
    people feel it, and because it seems sort of abstract now. That's why I
    think it's important that programs like this are aired and people like
    you, not politicians or scientific experts but citizens, express their
    concern.
        And then it's important that citizens know that it ought to be an
    issue; it ought to be a voting issue at election time. And I don't say
    this in a hateful way. It's just that people need to tell the
    politicians and the candidates they care about this; they want action.
    But our citizens need to follow the lead of a lot of our religious
    groups and other civic groups in actually doing things themselves.
        Right now, if the American people knew all the options that are
    available to them and understood the economics, we could do much better.
    And of course, if my plan were to pass the Congress and we were to give
    the tax breaks to consumers and manufacturers of these products and
    technologies, we could do it even faster.

    Energy-Efficiency Incentives

        Mr. DiCaprio. Now, the major polluters are obviously the big
    industries, such as the oil companies, who are one of the most powerful
    lobbies in the world. How do we convince them to change the way they've
    been doing business for the last century?
        The President.  Well, for one thing, oil is a depleting resource.
    And I think that oil companies and coal companies should be given
    incentives to become energy companies and to promote energy efficiency,
    so that the oil they have will last longer and provide them a more
    steady stream of income and so that they can develop other ways of
    earning money. They should become--they should think of themselves as
    energy companies, not oil companies.
        And if you look at the record, starting with British Petroleum and
    its leader, some members of the oil industry are beginning to come over
    to support action on climate change. Some leaders of the auto industry
    are beginning to come over and support action on climate change. They
    understand that this is real and that when these gases get up in the
    atmosphere, it takes at least 50 years for them to dissipate.
        So we need to begin now a disciplined effort, which will be good for
    our economy. I will say again, this is good for the American economy and
    good for public health. We need to do this, and if we did it from today
    until the time you're my age, we'd be a much wealthier country, a much
    healthier country. And with that kind of effort over that length of
    time, we could head off this crisis.
        Mr. DiCaprio. How do we get power companies to replace their coal
    plants with cleaner technologies? And why don't we make it so expensive
    for power companies to keep their old coal plants that they have to
    invest in cleaner fuels?
        The President.  Well, I think you can do it in two or three ways. I
    think, first of all, it's important to have very rigorous clean air
    standards. And I think it's important also to provide them the tax
    incentives they need to move as quickly as possible to alternative
    energy sources.
        A lot of the most enlightened utilities in America also see
    conservation itself as an energy source, PG&E in California, for
    example. But other utilities have understood that our inefficient
    patterns of using electricity are pressing

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    them to use more traditional energy and emit more greenhouse gases and
    warm the climate.
        So I think what we should do is to have a system where we finance
    not only the conversion to alternative energy but also looking at
    conservation itself as a form of energy. When you save, you do the same
    amount of work with less energy, and it's like creating more energy in a
    totally clean way. And I think that we should be financing those things
    in part with tax breaks from the American Government. And I've pushed
    for that, and I will continue to do so.

    Energy Research

        Mr. DiCaprio. Now, you've enacted tax credits for people who want to
    buy electric and fuel-cell vehicles. What are we doing to encourage oil
    companies to research alternative fuel technologies like fuel cells?
        The President.  Well, I want to give tax credits to them, too, to
    make it easier for them to spend money on that kind of research. And we
    are doing a lot of the basic research in the Government. The work, for
    example, we did with the auto companies on developing fuel cells, on
    developing a dual-fuel electricity and gas engines----
        Mr. DiCaprio. A hybrid vehicle.
        The President. ----hybrid vehicles--the work that we've done to try
    to help them develop cars that run on electricity, but where the
    electricity regenerates, the capacity regenerates so they don't have to
    pull in every 80 miles and juice up the battery again; and a lot of the
    research we're doing through the Agriculture Department in biofuels--all
    these things I think are very important. As we do more of that research,
    the basic research, we then make it more cost effective for the energy
    companies and for the auto companies to take that basic research and
    quickly convert it into commercially viable research to develop
    products.
        So I think our research at the national level should increase as
    well. I think it's very, very important that the Federal Government do
    that. You know, to get out of the energy context, the Internet basically
    began as a federally funded research project. So a lot of the things we
    take for granted today in the private sector began with a heavy
    investment of basic research from the National Government. And I think
    we're still at a point where the National Government should be doing a
    lot of this basic research.
        I'll just give you one example. If we could--suppose we get cars
    that will get 70 miles to the gallon, 80 miles to the gallon. And then
    suppose they can run on clean biofuels that don't have any greenhouse
    gas emissions, instead of gasoline. Now, what's the problem today? The
    problem today is it takes about 7 gallons of gasoline to produce 8
    gallons of ethanol or other biofuel. So the researchers today are
    working on a chemical breakthrough which would permit you to produce 8
    gallons of biofuel with 1 gallon of gasoline. If you did that, if you
    improve the ratio 8 to 1, and you had a car getting 70 miles to the
    gallon, it would be like getting 500 miles to the gallon of gasoline in
    terms of greenhouse gas emissions. Then the whole future of the world
    would be different. I mean, this whole issue would be radically
    different. And then Americans, simply by buying fuel that would be cost
    effective, could whip this problem.
        And we're on the verge of those kinds of breakthroughs, but we need
    the energy companies to think of themselves as that, not oil and coal
    but energy. We need the auto companies to keep supporting the work of
    combating global warming, not pretending it doesn't exist, and many of
    them are today. And we need more action from ordinary citizens, smaller
    businesses, and the Government to promote energy conservation and
    alternative energy sources.
        But again I say, this is not a problem that requires big taxes, big
    regulation, and slow economic growth. It is no longer necessary--in the
    information economy, with the dramatic scientific breakthroughs already
    made, we can grow economies faster by conserving energy rather than
    burning it up. And that's what people don't yet believe. That's the real
    big debate out there. If we can get people to really believe that we
    could have a great future using less energy, not more--traditional
    energy, I mean--then we'd have the battle half won.
        And maybe that will come out of this program. Because there's
    nothing so dangerous to society than being in the grip of a big idea
    that isn't true anymore. And it is just no longer true that for America
    or India or China or Latin America or any other place to grow wealthy,
    they have to put more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere by burning up
    more coal and oil. That's just not true anymore. And so we have to show
    people that that's not true, and show

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    them how they can make a difference, and then keep making these products
    and technologies available so that it becomes easier and easier and
    easier to do what is not only the right thing environmentally but the
    right thing for our long-term economic and public health purposes.

    Fuel-Efficient Transportation

        Mr. DiCaprio. Many people have said in the past that the American
    dream was to buy a car and live in the suburbs. But it has created
    massive problems that have made us more reliant on our cars. Since it is
    so difficult for us to convince people to use mass transportation, how
    can we promote hybrid vehicles and convince people to give up their
    SUV's? For instance, if it only costs $575 a car to make them cleaner,
    why can't you make it a law, like seatbelts?
        The President.  Well, I'm not sure that it only costs $575 to make
    them cleaner in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. But let me say what I
    think ought to be done. I think--first of all, I think if these SUV's
    are going to be sustainable over the long run, they also are going to
    have to become much more fuel-efficient and be able to run on
    alternative fuels. And I think the American people would pay a little
    more if they would do that. And the auto companies for the first time
    have said now that they want to bring in the SUV's and their other less
    efficient vehicles into this sort of new energy future that we're trying
    to build.
        Secondly, I think that people will take mass transit more if it
    works better. I've worked very hard to support more investments in mass
    transit to make it more convenient and faster, including more high-speed
    rail. And I still believe that as our urban areas become more and more
    populated and traffic becomes more congested, quite apart from pollution
    in the air, if we can have clean, efficient, and fast mass transit,
    people will begin to take it more and more and more because they can do
    other things; they're not wasting so much time if they're riding the
    train.
        So I'm hopeful that you will see that. I very much hope that we will
    continue to develop mass transit alternatives, and I believe they will
    become much more popular with people, especially in the highly populated
    areas. But we can't stop the development of fuel efficiency because a
    lot of our people live in rural areas and drive a long way to work, and
    that's not going to change anytime soon.

    Environmental Standards

        Mr. DiCaprio. Now, Louisiana is the second largest consumer of
    fossil fuels and the city most at risk for sea level rise. Can't
    something be done, like in Atlanta, where the Government withheld
    highway funds, making it the model city for environmental
    responsibility?
        The President.  Yes, we can. But under the law, we can only withhold
    these highway funds if the air pollution of a given metropolitan area is
    so high and they haven't done anything about it, anything else about it.
    Then we can withhold the highway funds. They have to come up with an
    alternative program, which usually involves mass transit or carpooling
    or some other means to reduce air pollution, and in this case, also to
    reduce greenhouse gas emissions. And I'm sorry to say I don't know
    exactly the answer to your question, but it may be that for other
    reasons, New Orleans is in full compliance with the Federal laws on air
    pollution. I'll just have to look and see.
        But we've tried to do that in more than one other place, to use the
    obligation of a city, a big metropolitan area to have clean air to
    promote the development of alternative energy technologies and
    alternative travel patterns. And I do think that environmental standards
    can be used that way. In other words, instead of telling people we're
    going to shut you down, or imposing big, heavy, complicated regulations,
    say, ``Here's the standard; if you want the money, meet the standard.''
    And then, in Atlanta, they figured out something to do that was very
    good for the environment, and they got their money.

    Citizen Involvement

        Mr. DiCaprio. Now, I'm sure you've heard so many reports from
    scientists and politicians and citizens. What do you think the best
    course for American citizens is, within the next 20 years, as far as
    helping the environment is concerned?
        The President.  Well, the biggest global problem by far on the
    environment is global warming. The biggest problem in many developing
    countries right now is safe water. We still have huge numbers of
    children dying from diarrhea and other related diseases and problems
    because they don't have safe water. And there are local

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    air pollution problems that are horrible in various places.
        But internationally, the biggest problem is global warming. And I
    think the most important thing we can do is, every citizen must first
    understand that he or she can do something about this, and it won't
    bankrupt them. They should have their homes, their cars, their
    businesses--everything they do should be oriented toward energy
    efficiency and alternative energy technologies. And then they should
    make this one of the issues that has to be discussed by public officials
    running for office at every level. This has to become not just an issue
    that we talk about once a year on Earth Day but an issue that is debated
    along with health care and education and national security and other
    issues at every election.
        You know, I was fortunate when I asked Vice President Gore to join me in 1992 that he had written a book on
    this, that he was interested in it. He talked to me about it. And so we
    just, on our own initiative, have done a lot of these things. But we
    could have had a whole environmental agenda and not dealt with this
    really very much. And then we had Kyoto, which we strongly supported,
    the Kyoto Protocol. But this needs to become an issue for every public
    official. It needs to become a matter of citizen debate.
        So I think citizen action, and then citizens as voters turning it
    into a political issue, in the very finest sense--those are the things
    that I think need to be done right now and for the next several years to
    get America on the right track.
        Mr. DiCaprio. Do you think we can eventually become a role model?
        The President.  Absolutely. We should become a role model because,
    just as we've led the world in information technology with the
    development of the Internet and digital technology of all kinds, we have
    the technology here. And there's no excuse for not implementing it
    comprehensively and quickly in every American community. And there's no
    excuse for not making it available at an affordable price to every
    American family.
        So if we take this on the way we did the Industrial Revolution, the
    way we did the information technology revolution, there will be an
    energy revolution in the 21st century that will save the planet and
    actually increase health and wealth. That will be one--I predict to you
    that will be one of the great stories of the 21st century, that there
    was a dramatic revolution in work caused by a change in the source of
    energy, in the level of conservation, and in the availability of
    technologies that just weren't there before.
        Mr. DiCaprio. I hope so.
        Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.
        The President.  Thank you.

    Note: The interview was taped at approximately 1 p.m. on the Oval Office
    Patio at the White House for broadcast on the evening of April 22. The
    transcript was released by the Office of the Press Secretary on April
    23. A tape was not available for verification of the content of this
    interview.