    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (1999, Book II)]
    [December 22, 1999]
    [Pages 2331-2339]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Larry King of CNN's ``Larry King
    Live''
    December 22, 1999

    Cabinet Room

        Mr. King. Good evening. We're in the Cabinet Room at the White House
    in this Christmas season. It's a great pleasure to have as our special
    guest, as part of our millennium month, the President of the United
    States, Bill Clinton. Do you spend a lot of time--do you have a lot of
    Cabinet meetings?
        The President. I do. And I have a lot of other meetings in here,
    like with individual Cabinet members. I met this week with three or four
    different Cabinet members and extended staff here. So we have large
    meetings in here.
        Mr. King. This room is, like, right off the Oval Office?
        The President. That's right, right off the Oval Office.
        Mr. King. Did they plan it that way so the President could run right
    in and meet with--how often do you have Cabinet meetings?
        The President. I don't have too many full Cabinet meetings, because
    we have 23 members of the Cabinet plus Chief of Staff. So I have a few
    of those a year, when we have to do a review and get all geared into one
    issue or another. But I have a lot of meetings with various Cabinet
    officials in this room and with maybe more than one who are all working
    on a common project.

    Year 2000 Problems

        Mr. King. We have a lot to talk about, and I want to get an overview
    as we look ahead to this millennium but cover some current things. I
    guess the thing everybody is talking about is, should we be frightened?
    That's the basis of the State Department yesterday--should we travel;
    should we stay home? We're told the Cabinet members have been asked to
    stay home or stay in Washington. Is that true?
        The President. The Cabinet members are staying here, but it's really
    just as a precaution, because we feel a high level of confidence about
    where we are with the Y2K problems. We've been working on this for
    years. We've spent a lot of money on it; we've tried to get all the
    private sector involved. All the big systems in this country, I think--
    airline travel, banking systems, electrical systems, Social Security
    checks--all those things I think are in good shape. We're here partly as
    a precaution and partly so, if any of our friends in other parts of the
    world have any trouble, we can all be there to give whatever help we
    can.

    Year 2000 Terrorism

        Mr. King. And how about the terrorism threat, where people are asked
    to be careful, especially overseas, and we have these arrests occurring
    in Washington and Vermont?
        The President. Well, what I would say to the American people about
    that is that we know that at the millennium, a lot of people who may
    even be a little crazy by our standards or may have a political point to
    make, may try to take advantage of it. So we are on a heightened state
    of alert. We're working very hard on it. No one can guarantee that
    nothing will happen. But all I can say is we're working very hard.
        And my advice to the American people would be to go on about their
    business and do what they would intend to do at the holiday season but
    to be a little more aware of people and

    [[Page 2332]]

    places where they find themselves. And if you see something suspicious,
    well, call us and let us know. Call the authorities. We're working very,
    very hard on this. And if it were me, I would not just refrain from
    activities. I'm going to go out and do my Christmas shopping. I'm going
    to do what I normally do.
        Mr. King. Are you saying if you have a hunch about something, go to
    the hunch?
        The President. If you have a hunch about something, if you see
    something that's suspicious, you should report it, just to make sure
    that we do everything we possibly can to maximize our protection. But I
    wouldn't just hunker down until it was all over.
        Mr. King. Colin Powell says that maybe by doing all this, you've
    scared them off. You know, if you make people fear the alert so much,
    that might cause terrorists to have a second thought.
        The President. Well, they should have a second thought, because
    we're working it hard.
        Mr. King.  In cooperation with other nations?
        The President. Absolutely.

    Vice President Al Gore's Offer To Debate

        Mr. King. All right. Let's discuss some things political--one of
    your main--you know that. Do you agree with Al Gore's request to have
    debates? ``Forget all the advertising. Let's debate.''
        The President. Well, I think it's an interesting idea. I don't want
    to get into handicapping the campaign. I think that the more debates
    they have, the better. I'm very proud to be a member of my party when I
    see those two debate. They're smart. They have their ideas. You know I
    favor the Vice President and not just because I feel personally loyal to
    him. I think he's been by light-years the best Vice President this
    country has ever had, by a long, long way. But I think the fact that he
    and Bill Bradley are out there talking about
    education; they're talking about health care; they're talking about
    biomedical research; and they know what they're talking about; and
    they've thought about these things--I think it's a very substantive,
    good thing. And that's what I think elections ought to be about, so I'm
    proud of that.
        Mr. King. Were you surprised at the idea, though, to say, let's
    forget--you know, Goldwater and Kennedy were going to do that.
        The President. I was surprised. And I must say I find it quite
    interesting. I was intrigued by it. If someone had offered me that in
    1992, I probably would have done it.
        Mr. King. Would have taken it?
        The President. Yes, probably, because I think we need to find out
    whether we can have elections without the kind of money that they cost
    today, and we can't have them without that kind of money unless people
    can have access, the candidates can have access to the voters. That is,
    what costs all the money is access to the voters.
        Mr. King. Barry Goldwater had told me that he and John Kennedy had
    arranged that if Goldwater would be the nominee in '64, had Kennedy
    lived, they were going to travel around together.
        The President. I think it would have been wonderful. I still think
    it would be great. And I'd like to see it happen in a general election.
    I don't think it's necessary for the voters to be for one person but
    think that the other person is a bad person. And I think it's very bad
    development in our politics. I think it's one reason that the voting
    percentage goes down; people think, ugh. So if there could be a way to
    be more and more debates, not only now but in the general election, I
    think it would be a good thing for American democracy. I did three last
    time and three the time before, but I would have done six or seven or
    however many. I believe in this.

    Candidate Bill Bradley

        Mr. King. You say, of course, you're supporting your Vice President.
    What do you think of Bill Bradley, though?
        The President. Oh, I've known him for many years. I like him. He's a
    very smart man. He's had a very interesting life, and he's got an
    interesting take on things.
        Mr. King. Do you ever think they might run together?
        The President. They'd be a good ticket. [Laughter] It would be a
    good ticket.

    Challenges of a Vice Presidential Campaign

        Mr. King. Kennedy could run with Johnson. You picked a man from a
    neighboring State to run with you. Do you understand the difficulty of a
    Vice President running?
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. King. That's not easy, is it?
        The President. No. But it gets easier as time goes on and people
    focus on it. And it's easier now than it was 100 years ago, I think. But
    I think that, as I said, when Harry Truman

    [[Page 2333]]

    became President, he didn't even know about the atomic bomb.
        Mr. King. Did not.
        The President. And we had already lost five or six Presidents in
    office by the time he became President. Since then, there has been an
    increasing level of seriousness given to the job. Lyndon Johnson was a
    major figure, and Richard Nixon was a major figure. Both of them had
    responsibility in office. Then President Carter upped the ante more;
    Vice President Mondale had far more responsibility than anybody had
    before. President Reagan, to his credit, gave President Bush a lot of
    responsibility. But no Vice President has ever had the range of
    responsibility and the level of achievement, accordingly, that Al
    Gore has had, whether it was in our
    technology policy, our environmental policy, our foreign policy, the
    economic empowerment of poor areas. I could just go on and on.
        Mr. King. So there is nothing he isn't abreast of?
        The President. No.
        Mr. King. If something happened to you, there's not surprise we have
    to tell him?
        The President. No. There would be nothing--if something were to
    happen to me tonight, he could become
    President, and there would be nothing he wouldn't know, no person he
    hadn't met, no issue he hadn't dealt with.
        Mr. King. We'll be right back with the President of the United
    States, Bill Clinton, at this Christmas season. Don't go away.

    [At this point, CNN took a commercial break.]

    Trade Debate and the Seattle Round

        Mr. King.  Speaking of debates, it was Vice President Gore's idea,
    we just reminded each other, to debate Perot. And I understand you were
    the only one here that agreed with that.
        The President. In the beginning.
        Mr. King. There was a lot of disagreement.
        The President. They all thought there was a lot of downside to it.
    But I wish we had more debates in recent years on trade policy, because
    it's such a controversial thing. Everybody is for selling more of our
    exports. Everybody has the feeling, because we have a big trade deficit,
    that people take advantage of us. People are worried about losing their
    jobs, even though the unemployment rate is at a 30-year low. And I think
    we need to continue to debate this. I wish we had more of them. I hope
    there will be some trade debates in this election.
        Mr. King. Did Seattle throw you, Mr. President? I ask that because
    Governor Bush was with us last week, and he agrees completely with you
    on the trade issue, but he said he thought--I'm paraphrasing--that you
    kind of copped out, that you didn't forcefully attack those people who
    were demonstrating; you sort of rode the middle.
        The President. Well, first of all, I attacked those who were violent
    in no uncertain terms. And I said to those who were demonstrating for a
    cleaner environment or for decent labor standards that I thought their
    concerns were legitimate but their opposition to the trade agreement was
    wrong. And that's what I believe. And I think that we're a little
    different on that. I mean, I strongly agree, and most Republicans that
    apparently agree with me that we ought to have expanded trade.
        We benefit, not just from the exports; we also benefit from the
    influence. You've got an--time, so do I. We benefit in that an open
    market enables us to grow and still have to compete, and that keeps
    inflation down. One of the reasons--in February we're going to have the
    longest economic expansion in the history of the country, and we did it
    with three things. We did it with getting rid of the debt--deficit; we
    did it with investing in technology and people; and we did it with
    opening our borders in trading and continuing to compete, because
    usually, when you have this kind of economic growth, inflation takes
    over and kills the recovery. That hasn't happened. So I think this is
    very important.
        But the difference between me and most Republicans is that I believe
    that globalization is inevitable. But people are scared of all this
    change, and what we have to do is to convince them that change can be
    their friend. And the way to do it is to say, ``Okay, we're going to
    compete, and we're going to win over the long run, and we're going to
    win in the short run. But we should grow the economy in a way that
    improves the environment, and we should do it in a way that respects
    core labor standards: no forced labor, no child labor, no abusive
    working conditions.''
        Mr. King. Did Seattle surprise you?
        The President. No. I think--I knew there would be a lot of people
    there. I was surprised the first night at the level of violence. I
    didn't

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    know that there would be so many, basically, creeps there who would try
    to----
        Mr. King. Who instigated it, you mean?
        The President. Yes, throw rocks--there was just a very small
    percentage of those thousands of people who were doing this. There were
    probably a couple of hundred people who were prepared to throw rocks at
    stores and take other violent action.
        Most of them were there to express their opposition to some aspect
    or another of this process of globalization, but they cannot turn the
    clock back. The world is better off than it would have been if we hadn't
    had 50 years of increasing economic integration, and America has won big
    these last 7 years by being involved. And we are making a huge mistake,
    in my judgment, if we don't continue to both expand trade and work for
    better core labor standards in a better environment.
        Mr. King. Do the unions then not understand this? They're the
    biggest supporters your party has--the trade unions in America have
    been.
        The President. They're divided. If you look at Seattle, for example,
    there are 170,000 union members in and around Seattle. And most of them
    have jobs in part because their companies are so tied to trade. I went
    to York, Pennsylvania, the other day to the Harley Davidson motorcycle
    factory, something most--at least most guys and an increasing number of
    women can identify with. They've got a year's backlog, and 25 percent of
    the Harleys are sold overseas, and the biggest foreign market is now
    Japan, which makes the only competitors to Harley and motorcycles. So I
    think it just depends.
        Some unions feel that their jobs might be undercut by the
    importation of textile or clothing goods or shoes or whatever, but on
    balance, we have won big as a country by opening our markets, showing
    we're not afraid to compete, and asking others to open their markets,
    too, to be fair, whether it's farmers or manufacturers or people in
    entertainment or people in the information technology business.

    Final Year of the President's Term

        Mr. King. Is it tough going into a last year? I ask that because we
    sat together here quite a few times. I remember once we were looking
    out, and you said to me, ``You know, my bad days are good days.''
        The President. Absolutely. I love this job.
        Mr. King. You love this job.
        The President. I do.
        Mr. King. You----
        The President. And I'll miss it. People ask me all the time, ``What
    will you miss most? Will it be living in the White House, going to Camp
    David, getting on Air Force One?'' The job is what I'll miss most, the
    work. There is no place in the world where you can come in contact with
    so many different kinds of people and so many different kinds of issues
    and have so much opportunity to do good or stop bad things from
    happening.
        But the hard thing about it now is you want to do everything, and
    you have to be disciplined. You have to figure out what can I do? What
    can I put out there that the country ought to do that maybe can't be
    done while I'm here? I never want to sleep. I realize the days are going
    by, and I just want to keep working. I just want to do everything I can.
        Mr. King. We'll be back with the working President right after this.

    [At this point, CNN took a commercial break.]

    Gays in the Military

        Mr. King. We are reevaluating, are we, ``don't ask, don't tell?''
        The President. Well, I think the candidates are. A lot of them are
    saying it should be changed.
        Mr. King. What do you think?
        The President. I tried to have a different policy. I tried to say
    gays should be able to serve in the military----
        Mr. King. Period?
        The President. Without lying about it. But if the military code of
    justice says that homosexual acts are illegal, if they keep it, then
    they'd have to observe that. But when we went to ``don't ask, don't
    tell,'' it was all we could get through the Congress. The Congress had a
    veto-proof majority to reverse the policy I recommended.
        Now a new administration and new Members of Congress, they're free
    to do something different. What we're doing now--in August, we issued
    some new guidelines to try to correct some of the abuses, because the
    policy, as it was articulated in '93, has been often abused, and that's
    what's led to some of these expulsions, some of this harassment.
        The Secretary of Defense is absolutely
    committed to faithfully implementing the policy. It's

    [[Page 2335]]

    really ``don't ask, don't tell,'' don't pursue, under those
    circumstances.
        Mr. King. So it's not the policy that's wrong?
        The President. No, I didn't say that. I recommended a different
    policy, but the policy is better than the results. That is, if the
    policy were faithfully applied, we would not have many of the problems
    that we've had these last few years. And I think the Secretary of
    Defense and the leadership of the Pentagon
    is now--with these new guidelines and with the work they're doing to try
    to make sure people are trained and they understand they're not supposed
    to go in and harass people and what can and cannot trigger an inquiry, I
    think we can make it better now.

    Gay and Lesbian Rights

        Mr. King. How much--we know about your interest and the gains we've
    made in the racial area and still a long way to go. How are we doing in
    that area, in the homosexual area in this country, with regards to
    acceptance, do you think?
        The President. I think we've come a long way. We're a long way from
    where we were just in '92 and '93. I think vast majorities of the
    American people support hate crimes legislation that protects gays as
    well as people with different racial and religious backgrounds. I think
    most Americans strongly support nondiscrimination in the workplace and
    would vote for the employment nondiscrimination act if they were in
    Congress. I hope that the Congress will vote for it this year, this next
    year.
        I think that--the real problem, I still believe, is the absence of
    open, personal contact. I think----
        Mr. King. We don't know it----
        The President. I think there are too many people who don't know gay
    men and lesbian women in the ordinary course of their lives, and they
    don't see that there are people who--their friends, their sisters, their
    brothers, their sons, their daughters, their co-workers, and that it
    is--my judgment is it's not a lifestyle people choose. It is the way
    people are. It's too hard--it's too hard a life for people to just up
    and----
        Mr. King. Why choose it?
        The President. ----up and choose it. I think that--and I think that
    my view is that every American that works hard, obeys the law, plays by
    the rules ought to be treated with dignity and respect and have a part
    in our American family. That's what I believe.
        Mr. King. Do you agree with the Vermont judiciary that while
    marriage may be wrong, they are entitled, couples who live together who
    are gay, to equal benefits?
        The President. I do. I think that's a good thing. That's always been
    my position, that--you've got gay couples that, for example, have been
    together for years now. One of them--and I'm beginning to think about
    this, because I'm moving into this age bracket now; one of them has a
    heart attack; one of them gets sick; one of them is in the intensive
    care unit in the hospital; and only family members can come in; and
    sometimes they're not allowed in--that kind of thing.
        You know, I think that, in terms of health care coverage at work or
    in terms of property and willing of property to your closest family
    member, that sort of thing, I think they ought to be able to do that.
        Mr. King. But not marry?
        The President. Well, marriage in our culture and to me has a certain
    connotation, meaning for me, that has not gotten me to where I could
    accept that, because I think it's basically a union for the purpose of,
    among other things, having children, and so that's why I've never
    supported the term of marriage, although there are a lot of increasing
    numbers of people, even in the clergy, who believe that they should be
    able to do that.
        Mr. King. We'll be back with more of President Clinton. We've got an
    overview here on the millennium and some other things after this.

    [At this point, CNN took a commercial break.]

    Reimbursement of Legal Fees

        Mr. King. We're in the Cabinet Room at the White House with
    President Clinton. Touch some other bases. The Washington Post said that
    you're applying to the Government to reimburse for legal fees. True?
        The President. That's not true.
        Mr. King. Not true?
        The President. Not true. I've never--I've never considered doing
    that.
        Mr. King. So where did that story come from?
        The President. I think it was leaked from the Independent Counsel's
    Office. That's the way the story read to me. But----
        Mr. King. You don't want----

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        The President. I think that they've cost the taxpayers enough money
    already.
        Mr. King. So even if you were entitled legally----
        The President. I may be entitled to it, but my instinct is not to do
    it. But I've really never had a discussion about it. My instinct is not
    to do it. I've been very fortunate. I've had this legal defense fund;
    people have helped me pay for my legal fees. The travesty in this thing
    is the way the law is written. You can only get your legal fees if
    you're a target of an investigation but you're not charged. So if you're
    charged and acquitted, you can't get them, and if you never were a
    target, you can't get them.
        So the thing that I think is just tragic is you have no idea how
    many completely innocent people that were harassed repeatedly and called
    into hearings and called into this, that, and the other thing. Everybody
    knew they never did anything wrong, but I mean, not just one interview
    which you could understand but over and over and over again, so that
    they have these massive legal bills, and they're not eligible for any
    reimbursement at all.
        So I've been trying to figure out how to help them pay their legal
    bills. That's what I wish I could apply for. I wish there was some fund
    where I could get some money for them to pay their bills, because a lot
    of these people, they're not President; they're not like me; they can't
    have a legal defense fund that would pay their bills off.

    Independent Counsel's Investigation

        Mr. King. How did you emotionally hold up through all that?
        The President. I'm here. [Laughter]
        Mr. King. I know. What is it? Some sort of inner thing in you, get
    up off the floor, the comeback kid approach? Is that part of your
    structure? Where does that come from?
        The President. I think there are two things, really. One is what you
    said. All my life, I was raised to believe that you should never give in
    and never give up. If somebody hits you and knocks you down, you were
    supposed to get up, not give up. And I also deeply believed--one thing I
    knew, the Whitewater thing was a total fraud, and I thought the people
    who were pursuing it knew it was a fraud at some point. They had to,
    especially 4-something years ago, when the Government report came out,
    the RTC report saying that neither my wife or I had done anything wrong
    and had detailed millions of dollars in explanations showing that.
        The other thing was that I'm--in the last couple of years, I had to
    come to terms with a lot of things. I prayed a lot; I thought a lot; I
    sought a lot of advice. I had a lot of help from really good people,
    here and around the world. A lot of the people I served with, world
    leaders, called and talked to me.
        Mr. King. Are you surprised at that?
        The President. I was touched by it beyond belief. Some of the
    conversations I had with people like Nelson Mandela, I've carried with me all my life. It's just
    unbelievable.
        Mr. King. They were there for you?
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. King. And that was part of the----
        The President. But here--but also, letters I got from, you know,
    kids around America. You wouldn't believe the letters I got from----
        Mr. King. Really?
        The President. Yes, unbelievable letters. And letters I got from
    religious leaders and people that taught philosophy and thought about
    these things. It was just--and I also had a lot of counseling, a lot of
    help from these ministers who came in and met with me, and my
    wife and daughter had a lot to do with it. Hillary and Chelsea had a
    lot to do with it.

    Former Advisers in the Media

        Mr. King. Are you hurt by the Dick Morrises, the Stephanopouloses
    who write books, who write columns, become part of the media sometimes,
    in Morris's case, often a very critical--a guy you were pretty close to?
    Does that hurt you?
        The President. Well, first of all, I am very grateful for the
    overwhelming loyalty that I've enjoyed from people who could have made a
    lot of money by dumping on me because that's what sells and the kind of
    media culture they were in. And I have enjoyed an extraordinary degree
    of it.
        I've also had a lot of stability. A lot of people have stayed with
    me the whole time. So let me start with my gratitude. When Dick first started going on television and saying those
    things, he used to call somebody here in the office and apologize in
    advance and just say, ``You know, I've got to do this. It's the only way
    I can get on television.''
        Mr. King. Really?

    [[Page 2337]]

        The President. Oh, sure. I mean, it's a game. It's a game. I know
    that. And so it's hard for me to take it seriously. I think that a lot
    of the things that he has said, he knows
    downright aren't true, and I feel bad for him because I think you pay a
    terrible price when you do that over and over and over again.
        Mr. King. You feel bad for him?
        The President. Yes, I do. I feel really bad for him.
        Mr. King. He's attacked your wife a lot, too.
        The President. Yes. And he's said a lot of things that he just knows aren't so. And so I feel badly for him. But I
    don't--I can't be mad at him.
        With George, it's a different
    story. I think he's a brilliant man and basically a good person. But
    when George entered politics, he entered as a boy wonder. He came right
    in with Dick Gephardt, you know, and he
    assumed great responsibilities because he's a person of--he works like
    crazy, and he's smart, and he's basically good-hearted in a lot of ways.
    But he was, I think, always affected by being basically a Washington
    politician.
        I remember when I was attacked in the New Hampshire primary, and
    everybody said, ``He's dead, and he ought to get out,'' and all that,
    George was asking, ``Well, should we
    withdraw?'' And James Carville and I, who
    grew up in the country, you know, out there with the folks, we looked at
    him and said, ``George, if the people want me to withdraw, they will
    withdraw me at election time. That's what you've got elections for.''
        And I think that--I think he's
    probably more comfortable now being a part of the professional critics
    of the Washington establishment, the media establishment. I think that's
    where he's--I think he's comfortable there. That's where he started in
    politics, and I think that's just where he is.

    Criticism of the President

        Mr. King. Do those pundits in general bother--do they get at you?
    Some guy--Truman wrote that famous note when he got mad. Some people let
    it slide off.
        The President. I've got that note, you know.
        Mr. King. You have the actual note?
        The President. Yes. One of the great little stories of my Presidency
    is Steve Forbes gave me that letter that Truman
    wrote.
        Mr. King. Steve Forbes?
        The President. I've always been grateful to him.
        Mr. King. SOB he called that writer.
        The President. Yes, he said, ``You'll need a new nose, a lot of
    beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a''--[laughter]----
        Mr. King. Do you ever watch ``Larry King Live'' or ``Meet The
    Press'' or somebody--do you get mad?
        The President. No, the truth is I never watch them. I never watch
    the Sunday talk shows.
        Mr. King. You don't watch Sunday morning?
        The President. Never. And the only time I ever see any of these
    other programs is if I'm channel surfing late at night and I happen to
    run into them. I watch your program sometimes when you're interviewing
    somebody I want to hear from.
        Mr. King. But basically, you don't turn on ``Meet The Press'' or----
        The President. Never. Never. And if I did, what good would that do
    me? I mean----
        Mr. King. Except make you mad.
        The President. Yes. If someone--if I read a column, like an op-ed
    column, of someone who says, I think the Clinton administration policy
    is all wet on this for these reasons, I read that, because Benjamin
    Franklin said, ``Our critics are our friends. They show us our faults.''
    But I cannot--you can't afford to be angry as President. If you're angry
    all the time over things people say about you--you can be angry about
    what happens to the American people. But if you're angry about what
    happens to you, then you're wasting a lot of time and emotional energy
    that belongs to the American people. And you're not going to make good
    decisions. So nothing really good can come with that.
        Mr. King. You really feel like an employee of the people?
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. King. We'll be back with some more moments with President
    Clinton from the Cabinet Room in the White House. Don't go away.

    [At this point, CNN took a commercial break.]

    President's Legacy

        Mr. King. We're back with President Clinton. I want to read
    something that was given to me today. The last time--not the last time,
    we've been together many times, but the night

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    Vince Foster died, you were on television together, in this building. We
    were the last two to know about it.
        The President. Yes. We were going to go another half hour, and
    McLarty came on and said, ``You
    can't do it.''
        Mr. King. Mack McLarty came in and said, ``You've got to get off
    now.'' And you were mad. Why? Because you even said, ``Am I not doing
    well?'' But anyway, that aside, the last question to you that night was
    called in by someone asking you, even though you had only been a year,
    less than a year in office, what do you think your legacy will be?
    Here's what you said: ``I'll be happy to tell you. Number one, I'd like
    to get the economy moving again.'' This is 6 years ago. ``Number two,
    I'd like to provide health security for all Americans. Number three, I
    want my national service plan to pass to open doors of college education
    to millions of Americans. Number four, I strongly want to pass a welfare
    reform bill that will move people from welfare to work. And five, I want
    to reform the political system.''
        Reading this, how have you done?
        The President. We've done well.
        Mr. King. Three out of five.
        The President. Yes. And we've made--we've done some really good
    things in health care; we just haven't been able to have universal
    access. And I finally got--I'm very proud of this--we had 100 percent of
    my party vote for the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform. So we now
    have unified the Democratic Party for our campaign finance reform, and
    it's just a question of whether the other party will come along now. So
    I think that will happen.
        I feel very good about what's happened these last 6 years. We've
    done a lot of other things as well, and we've been able to advance the
    cause of peace in Northern Ireland, the Middle East, the Balkans.

    President's Disappointment

        Mr. King. Biggest disappointment?
        The President. I don't know what the biggest disappointment is. I'm
    sorry we were not able to have more progress in health care, but we may
    have some this year. The main thing is I feel this enormous gratitude
    because I think our country is ending this century on such a high note,
    and I really do think we built our bridge to the 21st century.

    Hillary Clinton's Senate Campaign

        Mr. King. And are you going to campaign for Hillary?
        The President. If she wants me to, and if I can be helpful, I am.
    But I think that there's a time for that. I think in the beginning
    people want to know who she is, what she believes, what she will do as a
    Senator, and they'll want to see her. And I need to be as supportive of
    her as I can. There will come a time when I can perhaps help her in the
    campaign. The people of New York have been wonderful to me, and I'm very
    grateful for that. But they want to make an independent judgment about
    her, so I have to be careful about when I do it and how I do it. But if
    and when I can help, I will do whatever I can to help, because first of
    all, for her, I want her to win. But secondly, she would be absolutely
    unbelievable if she were a Senator. I mean, it would be unbelievable. It
    would be such a gift for the people of New York and America. I've never
    known anybody, ever, who had her combination of intellect and passion
    and organizing ability and absolutely consuming devotion to public
    service.
        Mr. King. Our common friends in California tell me you were going to
    move to New York, you and Hillary, no matter what.
        The President. That's correct. She told me--when we got elected in
    '92, I said, ``Okay, ever since we've been married, we've lived where I
    wanted to live; we've done what I wanted to do. Now, when we get out of
    here, I've got to go home; I'm going to build my library and build my
    center, but that's my gift to my State. And I'm going to spend some time
    there, and we'll spend the rest of the time wherever you want to say.''
    And she said, ``I want to go to New York.'' That's what she told me when
    we moved up here. I bet it was the first week or 2 we were here.
        Mr. King. Seven years ago.
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. King. Happy holidays.
        The President. Thank you.

    Note: The interview was videotaped at 5:56 p.m. in the Cabinet Room at
    the White House for later broadcast and was released by the Office of
    the Press Secretary on December 23. In his remarks, the President
    referred to Gen. Colin Powell, USA

    [[Page 2339]]

    (Ret.), chairman, America's Promise--The Alliance For Youth; former
    President Nelson Mandela of South Africa; the President's former
    political consultant Dick Morris; former Senior Adviser for Policy and
    Strategy George Stephanopoulos; and former Chief of Staff Thomas F.
    (Mack) McLarty. The President also referred to Vice President Al Gore's
    debate with Reform Party candidate Ross Perot on the North American free
    trade initiative on November 9, 1993. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.