    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: WILLIAM J. CLINTON (1999, Book II)]
    [December 2, 1999]
    [Pages 2197-2200]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Telephone Interview With Mark Little of RTE and
    Steve Grimason of BBC From Seattle
    December 2, 1999

    President's Possible Visit to Belfast

        Mr. Grimason. First of all, Mr. President, thank you very much for
    joining us. There has been some speculation that, with things again
    moving in the peace process, you may actually be considering making a
    return trip to Belfast, and we could say that it's safer than Seattle.
        The President. [Laughter] Yes, Seattle, the new home of the
    Troubles.
        Well, let me say this. First of all, I am elated about today's
    events. They are truly historic. Now the people in Northern Ireland have
    the authority and the power to work together and to shape their own
    future, and it's wonderful. And you know how much I love to come there,
    and I would come at the drop of a hat if there is some contribution I
    can make to the ongoing peace process and the work still to be done.
    I've told George Mitchell that. I've told
    Bertie Ahern that, and I've told Tony
    Blair that. And obviously, the parties know that.
    All the others know that I would do that. But I have not made a decision
    to come right now.

    Decommissioning of Arms

        Mr. Little. If I could ask you, it seems, unfortunately, with every
    victory in the peace process, there are sometimes the seeds of the next
    crisis, and we have the Ulster Unionist Council coming back in February
    to consider progress on decommissioning. Are you concerned that the
    historic development we see today could be collapsed in February? And do
    you agree with the Republicans who say, this is Unionists setting a new
    deadline which is not in the Good Friday agreement?
        The President. Well, I agree with George Mitchell's assessment that decommissioning is an essential element of
    the Good Friday accord, and it has to be achieved in the overall
    implementation of the agreement. All parties have a collective
    responsibility here, and I think what we should do is to give the
    agreed-upon process the chance to work. I have great confidence in
    General de Chastelain. I believe the
    parties have great confidence in him. And I don't think you can
    underestimate the terrific importance of the IRA naming its
    representative to General de Chastelain's commission, and I hope they do
    that today. And the Loyalists should do the same.
        And all of us on the outside, rather than speculating on this day
    about what might happen bad, I think we've got a roadmap for the future.
    We've got a process, and we've got a commission with a leader that the
    parties respect, and I think we ought to give it a chance to work.

    Ulster Unionist Deadline on Decommissioning of Arms

        Mr. Grimason. The problem that we have had with last weekend's
    events, although today's events are genuinely historic, is that the
    Ulster

    [[Page 2198]]

    Unionists under David Trimble do--have set effectively a deadline. And
    if by February there is no decommissioning, they will return and all the
    signs are that they could bring all of this work down.
        The President. Well, let me say first of all, you know, I've always
    tried to help. I've done everything I could to help, and I've worked
    with David Trimble and his people and with
    Gerry Adams and the Sinn Fein and with John
    Hume and Seamus Mallon.
    And I think on this day the most important thing I should say is to ask
    people to focus on what they have all agreed on. And what they have all
    agreed on is to give the de Chastelain
    commission a chance to work and to participate in that. As long as that
    is out there, I think it would be a mistake for me, as a friend of the
    peace process and the people of Ireland and as the President, to do
    anything that could in any way complicate that. Let's give it a chance
    to work and find a way forward.

    Impact of Cooperation

        Mr. Little. Mr. President, you know that there are a significant
    proportion of Unionists who do not want to see Sinn Fein in government
    without some form of decommissioning by the IRA. Do you think the IRA
    have done enough to persuade that group of Unionists? Is it time they
    set a deadline for themselves for decommissioning, and is it time they
    said the war is actually over, the day of the bomb and the bullet is
    gone?
        The President. Well, I believe if in fact the IRA names its
    representatives to the de Chastelain
    commission, I think that will be a pretty good signal that we're all
    moving in the right direction and that all parties recognize the truly
    historic nature of this day. And I think that a lot of people had to
    make a lot of compromises to get us to this day and to make the
    political changes necessary to reflect the plain will of the voters in
    both communities in Northern Ireland.
        And let me say, I think you'll see more movement in the right
    direction if none of us and none of them do anything that makes it any
    harder than it is already. So I'm quite hopeful, actually.
        And let me say this--I can only tell you this from my experience in
    other parts of the world as well--I think that there will be an
    intrinsic benefit to all the parties being in the Government and working
    together and seeing each other and finding out how many things they
    actually agree on. I mean, there's really not a Republican or a Unionist
    way to figure out whether the economy is growing or there's adequate
    infrastructure. And they both have a common stake in having an excellent
    education for their children.
        And I wouldn't minimize what I think will be the surprising amount
    of commonality they will find with one another as they assume the jobs
    they have. I mean, if you just look at the names of the portfolios the
    ministers have, and ask yourself, in how many of these areas could there
    legitimately be real differences? And won't the commonalities dwarf the
    differences? So I think the very process of being in this Government
    together, in the executive as well as the parliamentary branch, is very,
    very important. And I think it will have a terrifically positive impact
    that will begin, I think, today, and go forward.

    President's Analogy

        Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, you recently and rather famously
    described the two sides here as like drunks in a bar who always have to
    have one more round. A lot of people--you got some criticism, but a lot
    of people here said you were actually right to draw that analogy. Are
    these people, in your view, ready to go on the Government wagon?
        The President. Yes, I think they are. I did get a lot of criticism,
    and I probably deserved some of it, because I didn't mean to be making
    an ethnic slur. Though what I pointed out is, when people have deeply
    ingrained habits, you know, even if they're bad habits, they're hard to
    let go of, because you're sort of leaping out into the unknown, and it's
    a little frightening. And so maybe I should have used a different
    analogy, but I think that point, the general point, is quite valid.
        And they're in the Government now, and they're in there together,
    which means they're all saying, ``Okay we let go a little.'' They let go
    of something to come together. And I think that is, to me, an enormously
    positive sign.
        And so I think that, if the analogy was good at one time, it's less
    good today than it was, just because they've stood up a government
    together.

    [[Page 2199]]

    Legacy of Peace Initiatives

        Mr. Little. Mr. President, you've been leader of the free world,
    some would say, in very turbulent times. And you have confronted issues
    of vital importance to America's national interest. When they write the
    history books, where does Northern Ireland figure in your legacy?
        The President. Well, first of all, I think the credit goes primarily
    to the people and the leaders of Northern Ireland and to the leaders of
    Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland and, obviously, to George
    Mitchell for the role he played.
        But I do think that the interest that the United States has had in
    this and the plain commitment we've had to it during my Presidency has
    made some difference. I hope it has. And all I can tell you is that to
    me, I think it's very important. And I think it has enormous
    significance beyond the borders of the six counties and the Republic. I
    think the significance around the world is huge.
        For example, I just met with the leaders of all the parties in
    Kosovo. I was in Kosovo, you know, and it's a place that the United
    States and Great Britain, frankly, took the lead in getting our NATO
    Allies together to stop a horrible example of ethnic and religious
    hatred and cleansing. And we had all these parties back together, and
    their wounds are much fresher and of a great magnitude.
        And I could talk to them about the Irish peace process. And I could
    look them in the eye and say, ``You know, you can do this, too. And
    sooner or later, you're going to have to do it. So you ought to do it.''
        We're entering a very critical phase of the Middle East peace
    process, where extremely difficult decisions have to be made that are
    not the same as the kind of decisions that have to be made here. But it
    gives courage to the proponents of peace in a place like the Middle East
    to know that the Troubles could be laid down, and people could be
    reconciled and work together.
        So you know, to me it's a big part of the legacy of all the
    peacemakers of the world in this decade who were involved in it, and I
    am very proud and honored that I had a chance to be a part of it.

    Impact of Irish Peace Process

        Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, could I ask you, the importance of the
    Northern Ireland peace process, could it be said that it will be the
    first really truly--if it works, the first really truly genuine conflict
    resolution in the sense that neither side will have won? Frequently, we
    have things ending with people winning or with a transference of power.
    Will it have that effect in a world sense?
        The President. Yes, except I would use a different word. I think you
    can say that in many ways it is the first true conflict resolution. But
    instead of saying neither side won, I would say both sides won. And I
    think that if they didn't think they were winning, they would not have
    done this.
        And I think when you look at the fact that the biggest problem in
    the world today are these conflicts over racial, ethnic, and religious
    differences sweeping the world, the fact that you have set a model here
    for reconciliation in what has often been a violent and always been a
    deeply historically embedded struggle, is a profound significance,
    because this element of people fearing and distrusting and then hating
    and dehumanizing those who are different from them is at the heart of
    the problem in the Middle East, the problems in the Balkans, the tribal
    wars in Africa. You just see it all over the world.
        And so I think the people of Northern Ireland and their friends in
    the Irish Republic--who voted for the necessary changes to implement the
    Good Friday accord--and in Great Britain, they should know that what
    they have done is given enormous support and heart to people who are
    still struggling in very difficult circumstances everywhere in the
    world. It's just--I can't tell you how important I think it is.
        You should have seen the look on the people's faces in Kosovo, the
    party leaders who are still so fresh from their struggles, when I just
    was, in effect, hammering them with the decisions that the people and
    the leaders in Northern Ireland had made and the kind of accommodation
    that they had made to one another and how, sooner or later, people who
    shared the same piece of land had to work through not necessarily
    identical decisions but the same sorts of decisions in the same sort of
    way. So it is a matter of truly historic proportions, not because nobody
    won, but because everybody won.

    [[Page 2200]]

    End of Ireland's Claim on Ulster

        Mr. Little. Sir, today the Irish Republic did give up a very
    tangible expression of its identity, as it says, its right to have
    control over those six counties in Northern Ireland. Some Republicans
    will say they've given up a birthright today. What do you say to them?
        The President. I would say to them, they gave up something quite
    significant, but they gave it up to the principle of democracy, of
    majority rule, the principle of consent, in the words that you have used
    there, and that, in return, they got not only peace but the chance for
    guaranteed representation, a guaranteed voice in their own affairs
    immediately, and a guaranteed role in shaping their children's future.
        So I think the Irish Republic did a noble thing here. And they
    ennobled the people who agree with them and who still support the
    concept of a united Ireland, because they gave them the only chance they
    could ever have to achieve their dreams, and even more importantly, they
    gave them the only chance they could have to have a full life along the
    way, the principle of consent and shared decisionmaking and guaranteed
    representation, and now a renewed focus on the real challenges that real
    people face every day. I think it was a fine bargain and a noble one.
        Mr. Little. Thank you, Mr. President.
        Mr. Grimason. Mr. President, thank you very much. We hope you are
    here soon.
        The President. Thank you.
        Mr. Little. Maybe for the turning on of the Christmas lights, we'll
    be there. [Laughter]
        The President. You know, if it were up to me, I'd come once every 2
    weeks. [Laughter]
        Thank you.

    Note: The interview began at 10:55 a.m. from the supervisor's office at
    the King's County International Airport at Boeing Field. In his remarks,
    the President referred to former Senator George J. Mitchell, who chaired
    the Multiparty talks in Northern Ireland; Prime Minister John Bruton of
    Ireland; Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom; Gen. John de
    Chastelain, Canadian Defense Forces, chair, Independent International
    Commission on Decommissioning; Ulster Unionist Party leader David
    Trimble; Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams; John Hume and Seamus Mallon,
    members, Social Democratic and Labor Party. A tape was not available for
    verification of the content of this interview.