    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1999, Book I)]
    [April 22, 1999]
    [Pages 592-600]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Roundtable Discussion With Students on Violence in Schools
    at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, Virginia
    April 22, 1999

        The President. Thank you, Mr. Porter. I
    think all of you know that we are being joined by several million
    students through various media outlets that are covering this, and so
    let me begin by saying I'm delighted to be here at T.C. Williams High
    School. Thank you, Mr. Porter. Our superintendent, Herb Berg, is here, and I'm glad to be back in this school
    district again that has hosted me for so many important educational
    announcements. Senator Robb and Congressman
    Jim Moran are both here with us, along with
    Mayor Kerry Donley. I thank them for joining
    us and our two teachers, Ellen Harmon and
    Barbara Finney.
        I want to spend most of my time today listening to you. I have a few
    questions I want to ask, and I'm going to turn it over to the teachers
    as soon as I make a few opening remarks. But I got up this morning, and
    I made some notes and worked over them again, and I'd like to say just a
    few things.
        First of all, we're here obviously because of the terrible tragedy
    in Littleton, Colorado, and because, even though it is the worst example
    of school violence we've seen, it is by no means the only one. And
    indeed, I think that some of the people joining us today are from
    Paducah, Kentucky, and Jonesboro, Arkansas--at least those two
    communities which had examples of school violence last year.
        I think it's important that all over America students and teachers
    have a chance to discuss their feelings about this, their ideas about
    what we should do. And it's especially important for younger children,
    who might be quite traumatized and wonder whether they are, in fact,
    safe at school. So I want to talk a little about all of that.
        There is really nothing more important than keeping our schools
    safe. And we've tried to do a lot of things in that regard over the last
    few years, having a zero tolerance for guns and drugs policy, putting
    new community police officers in schools where they're needed, trying to
    support more counselors in schools, more after-school, more mentoring
    programs, more conflict resolution programs. We've tried to help school
    districts and students and teachers who wanted to do it to have--for
    younger children, elementary and junior high school--using school
    uniform policies or dress code policies where they wanted to implement
    those things. But we know that there are things which have to be done
    sort of beyond the Government and beyond anything Government can do.
        I spent a lot of time thinking about this, but I want to say, last
    night and today I thought about the work that my wife has done on this for many years, and I went back and
    reread the chapters in her book that deal with the problems that
    children have in coping with violence and the responsibilities of
    parents and the larger society. I thought about the work that the Vice
    President's wife, Tipper Gore, started doing
    well over a decade ago on this whole issue. And I think we have to ask
    ourselves some pretty hard questions here. What are the responsibilities
    of students themselves? What are the responsibilities of schools? What
    are the responsibilities of parents? What is the role of the larger
    culture here? Is there a sense in which the fact that all of you are
    exposed to

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    much higher levels of violence through television, through video games,
    that you can actually figure out how to make bombs on the Internet--does
    that make a difference? Does it make these kinds of things more likely
    to happen? What are our responsibilities?
        But before I open it to you, I'd just like to make one other
    comment. I think, particularly for young people who may be quite
    frightened as a result of this, or for parents who may wonder about the
    safety of schools, I think it's worth restating two or three basic
    things.
        First of all, on balance, our schools are still the safest place our
    kids can be in most communities, under most or all circumstances.
        Secondly, I think it's worth reminding everyone that in spite of
    these horrible instances, our country is still fundamentally a good and
    decent place, and our people are good and decent people. And we have
    seen the way the community of Littleton responded to this: people
    standing in line for hours to give blood, people showing up to volunteer
    their services as counselors and in other ways, with the way people have
    reached out to each other. We see a kind of microcosm of how America has
    reacted to this.
        And I think it's important that the young people of our country know
    this and that the parents know this, that they should remember we--as
    horrible as this is, we have seen once again what is basically decent
    and good about America. And we should remember that most schools are
    more nearly represented by the kind of conversation we're having around
    here today than by the horrible incident we saw in Colorado.
        So I think that's enough for me to say. But I'm interested in what
    you think about it, what your reactions are, what you've done here to
    try to avoid this, and what you think the responsibilities of the rest
    of us are, starting at home and going all the way up to the President,
    and also the cultural issues I mentioned.
        You know, we have to acknowledge, as Hillary does in this book--and
    I went back and read some of the things we talked about over the last 20
    years--that we do have more violence among younger people in America
    than other cultures do. And everyone has to take a hard look at what all
    the elements of our society are that contribute to that and what we can
    do to diminish it.
        I also would like to say--let me just mention one other thing. I
    think it's important because of the action in which we're involved in
    Kosovo today. We don't know all the facts about what happened in
    Littleton, but one of the things that's come out of this that's really
    made an impression on me is that the young men who were involved in this
    horrible act apparently felt that they were subject to ridicule and
    ostracism, and they were kind of social outcasts at the school. But
    their reaction to it was to find someone else to look down on. And
    apparently, they were very prejudiced against African-Americans and
    Hispanics, and observed Adolf Hitler's birthday, and otherwise reacted
    to that.
        This is something that you see a lot around the world and throughout
    human history, that people who themselves feel disrespected, instead of
    developing an enormous sympathy for other people who have been subject
    to discrimination, instead look for someone else to look down on so they
    can always say, ``Well, I may be dissed at school, or I may be subject
    to disrespect in some other environment, but at least I'm not them.''
        And I think that's a larger problem we really have to fight, because
    you look around this room--of course, we're in perhaps the most diverse
    school district in America today--but this is a great opportunity for
    us, as long as we lift other people up and recognize the inherent
    dignity and worth of all individuals and all ethnic, religious, and
    cultural groups.
        And so I think that's another point that needs to be made here: They
    had the wrong reaction to the fact that they were dissed. Hey, look,
    everybody gets dissed sometime in life, even the President--[laughter]--
    sometimes, especially the President.
        So these are some of the things that I was thinking about that I
    hope will spark your thoughts. And I think I'll turn it back to you and
    to the teachers to discuss this in any way you'd like.

    [Teacher Ellen Harmon opened the floor to the
    students for discussion.]

        The President. Yes, pass the mike.

    [Teacher Barbara Finney, T.C. Williams peer
    mediator adviser, introduced a veteran student mediator, who suggested
    that the Littleton tragedy grew out of a buildup of anger or aggression
    that could have been addressed through peer mediation. Another student
    mediator described the mediation process at T.C. Williams.]

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        The President. I wanted to ask this question, because I honestly
    believe that young people can help each other, particularly at this age,
    maybe more than adults can, maybe in some cases more than their parents
    can, if things get out of hand.
        But what I want to ask you is, how do they get there, if they're
    really angry? What if they're too embarrassed about what they think is
    being done to them to talk about it? Do they get there only when they
    come to you, or do other kids say, ``Hey, these two people are having
    trouble,'' or ``These two groups are having trouble. You need to go to
    them.'' Can you all talk to me about that?

    [A participant said students could be referred to mediation or could
    approach the teacher in charge confidentially. She commented that
    letting students vent their anger in a monitored setting was often
    helpful.]

        The President. Go ahead.

    [A student said that T.C. Williams had instituted a confidential safety
    hotline so students could reach the peer mediation people and suggested
    that something similar in Littleton might have prevented the tragedy.]

        The President. So you're saying if they had a hotline, as opposed to
    a peer mediation group, then someone who was afraid----
        Student. No, they work together--they work together.
        The President. That's what I mean, in addition to. So, if someone
    were afraid, they could call the hotline and say, ``Here's what I think
    is going on.''
        Student. Yes. And it's confidential. You just----
        The President. Okay. Suppose I call the hotline and say, ``Listen, I
    just talked to one of these people, and they're talking about getting
    guns and shooting people.'' Then what happens? I called the hotline,
    here. What happens?
        Student. Peer mediation can be contacted with that, because you have
    given us a name, or Mr. Porter can talk to them or something.
        The President. I think this is good. That's wonderful.
        Okay.

    [A peer mediator said that students in mediation felt more confident and
    comfortable because they did not have to worry about punishment, and
    that the peer mediators gained a broader perspective on problems.
    Another student noted that T.C. Williams was a very diverse school, and
    perhaps part of the problem in Littleton was that school's lack of
    diversity. A student then said that probably Littleton students had felt
    their school was safe and its administration had been no less keen and
    connected than that at T.C. Williams.]

        The President. First of all, I think that's a very brave thing for
    you to say. But there's no doubt that those people are very good people,
    that they have a good school, that they thought things were rocking
    along--which is why--that's why what you said, I think, is very
    important, that there needs to be some organized outlet that people can
    access privately. Because nearly everybody in America believes this
    couldn't happen in their school. So I think having this way to call and
    say, ``This is going on''--we all need warning systems.
        Go ahead.
        Student. But, see, the problem is--what I feel is, I feel the
    administrators knew about this because a lot of people say, like, on the
    news and stuff, the students seemed to know about this crew already and
    seemed to not have done nothing about it. They didn't bother to prevent
    it, because they had a page in the yearbook for this crew and everything
    already.
        The President. Yes, but the point I'm trying to make is that--a lot
    of people seemed to have known in general, but most people didn't--a lot
    of the people who knew, I think, didn't know that they might do what
    they did. And that's why it's important to feed all this stuff in
    someplace, because there are people who do know that--let me come back
    to the beginning here. I'd like for you all to talk about this.
        Let me just say what I was going to say. One of the things that all
    kids are taught by their parents, you know, is this old ``sticks and
    stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.'' That ain't
    true--if you'll let me use bad grammar. [Laughter] That's not true,
    because a lot of this stuff starts with words, you know?
        And even in what I do and the people I deal with, it's amazing how
    much energy is lost and how many things are not done for America because
    people in Washington, DC, at the highest levels of power and influence,
    get hurt by what other people say about them--mean, bad things other
    people say about them. And then

    [[Page 595]]

    they get in the position where they try to bait each other to say mean,
    bad things, you know.
        And I think that somehow maybe we all, particularly in a culture
    that desensitizes people to violence, if they're profoundly alienated--
    and I still think that's a big part of this--all of us have to do a
    better job of teaching young people not to let themselves be defined by
    the words other people use against them.
        That's something that really struck me when I read these accounts,
    is how alienated these young people were because these athletes were
    saying bad things about them or who else was saying bad things about
    them. They were different, so then they had to look for somebody to feel
    bad about.
        And that's why I like this peer mediation thing, because it tends to
    take the sting out of words at the earliest possible time. But people
    really still get hurt so badly by what is said about them. And somehow,
    we've got to make people more immune to that.
        Go ahead.

    [A student expressed concern that the Littleton attackers may have
    learned to make bombs with information from the Internet, and asked what
    the Government was doing to prevent the dissemination of such
    information.]

        The President. You know, when the bomb blew up in Oklahoma City and
    the Federal building was destroyed and all those people were killed, we
    pointed out that the way the Internet is going with these webpages,
    people can learn how to build bombs like that on the Internet. And there
    is a limit to how much we can control it. And we're looking for ways to
    try to at least help parents deal with what their children can get off
    the Internet, and a way to use ordinary law enforcement tactics
    effectively against people who are trying to do illegal things over the
    Internet. But it's very difficult.
        I mean, one of the things that's wonderful about the Internet is
    kind of its capacity for infinite expansion. And that's one of the great
    things about it. I don't know how many teachers here now get research
    papers where all the sources are off the Internet. But it's great.
    That's the good news. The bad news is, it's almost impossible to find
    this stuff, sort it out, and figure out whether it's illegal or not, and
    do something about it.
        But I agree with you; it's going to be one of the big challenges we
    face, because there's been a lot of talk about--if you've seen in the
    last 3 or 4 days--about whether the Internet plus having very young
    people play very violent video games and where they learn to shoot
    people and stuff, that those two things have added an extra element to
    an otherwise already pretty violent culture. And I think we're going to
    have to take another look at it.
        It's not easy. I don't want to pretend that it's easy. If you look
    at how many thousands and thousands of pages, webpages, are being added
    to the Internet every day, it's the fastest growing organism in human
    history for communications. And it presents us a great challenge.

    [A student stated that it would be very hard for the Government to
    control information on the Internet in a society with a free press and
    free speech. He said that the responsibility rested with parents to
    monitor what their children could access on the Internet.]

        The President. Well, I do think it's important that in all these
    discussions, we not take the focus away from the home. I agree with
    that. If you look at all the facts that we know from the incidents that
    happened last year, all the school violence incidents, it appears that
    there were some cases in which the parents were--to go back to what you
    said about how other kids knew and they didn't call in--there appears
    that there were some cases in which the parents knew that the kid had a
    problem, including an obsession with guns and bombs, and there were
    other cases where they didn't know and might not have been able to know.
    But I do think that we shouldn't minimize that.
        The only thing I want to--to go back to what you said about the
    Internet--I agree with that. You don't want me to choke off the
    Internet. It's one of the greatest things that ever happened. But we've
    got to figure out a way to apply the ordinary restrictions of the
    criminal law in that context, just like you would any other. I think
    that's all you're saying, is we need to--if somebody's doing something
    illegal there, we should. But the problem is, how do you--how do parents
    limit their children's access to something they shouldn't be able to
    see? And I do think that the role of the Internet, and the way it's
    bringing everything into the home, has made a parent's job much more
    difficult. And it's harder to know what to do and how

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    to do it. It's much, much harder. And I think we ought to just fess up
    to that.
        But I'm sympathetic with you. We don't want to destroy what's great
    about the Internet. It's revolutionizing the American economy. It's
    opening up opportunities for people, opening up educational
    opportunities, bringing whole libraries to homes of people who could
    never afford them. I mean, it's doing a lot of good. But we've got to
    figure out a way to deal with these downside risks.

    [A student stated that it appeared administrators and students in
    Littleton knew there was a problem and that administrators should have
    contacted the parents. Ms. Finney commented
    that a Littleton student had said he heard the suspects planning the
    attack last year, and she believed he should have taken the initiative
    to tell someone.]

        The President. I want to hear from the students, but that goes back
    to what you said. What I would like to--the message to go out across all
    the millions of students like you that are listening, and all of the
    schools, is that no matter how good your school is and no matter how
    good your programs are, we need a little humility here. And you're not
    doing something bad if you hear people talking about doing something or
    you see them becoming profoundly alienated in ways that could be
    destructive, if you tell someone who's in a position of responsibility
    to do something about it. They're not going to be punished if they
    hadn't done anything wrong, but we might be able to prevent more of
    these things.
        I do think that one of the lessons that will come out of this
    incident, no matter what the facts turn out to be, is that there has to
    be a hotline, there has to be some sort of early warning system; there
    has to be a climate in which children feel, young people feel that they
    can ring the alarm bell when they see something like this.

    [Another student introduced herself.]

        The President. Oh, yes, you've been waiting a long time--she's been
    waiting longer than anybody else. [Laughter]

    [The student cited a lack of morality and urged more disciplinary action
    from school administrators.]

        The President. I agree with that. But what happens if all of that
    still doesn't work because young people at some point develop a whole
    other life? I mean, when you look at what is apparently the fact here,
    these--they created a whole new culture for themselves, a whole other
    life, which--we don't know the facts yet about what their parents did or
    didn't know, about what the schools did or didn't know. I think it's
    important for us not to make hasty judgments about Littleton.
        I agree with what you say. But I also think in addition to what you
    say, we've got to have some warning system to protect everybody else.
        Go ahead.

    [A student said that people should stop placing blame on movies and
    video games and spend more time with their children. Another participant
    said discipline should start at an early age, not in the teen years. A
    student then asked if the fact that Littleton was a white suburban area
    would take the focus off of racial groups as the cause of problems.]

        The President. Well, I hope so. You know, it's interesting; all of
    these instances of school violence, even though they occurred in schools
    which some had a lot of racial diversity, some had not much racial
    diversity, but they all occurred away from inner-city areas with very
    high unemployment and high general crime rates. They tended to occur
    more in small towns and rural areas or suburbs, where you normally would
    not think that society itself falling apart around you would happen.
        Now, part of that could be the absence of the kind of warning and
    alert systems that you often have in the big city schools. I mean, a lot
    of big city schools, for example, all routinely have metal detectors and
    things like that because they know they've got to protect their kids.
    But I think what it means is that whatever is out there in our culture,
    whether it is the failure of parents to teach their kids, whether it is
    that plus then the extra exposure to violent experiences when you're
    young, kind of one step removed through media or video games or
    whatever--whatever it is--what it shows is that the people in rural
    America and in suburban America, in low-crime America and upper income
    America are just as vulnerable to having alienated young people in gangs
    or in isolation take violent action. I think that's what it shows. And
    it should destroy any of our racial or economic

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    stereotypes about this. This is something that can happen anywhere.
    That's the point you made, and I think that's right.

    [A student noted that T.C. Williams also had social workers and
    psychologists in addition to the hotline and peer mediators, and asked
    how many other schools in the country had these alternatives.]

        The President. Well, the truth is that some do, and some don't. More
    and more, I think, schools are doing that. Some have economic
    constraints. Some may not think they need them. But I believe that--I
    can tell you this. One of the things I have tried to do is to make it
    possible for schools to have more trained personnel and more options to
    serve children that have a whole variety of different needs.
        And I suspect that one positive thing that will come out of this
    awful incident is that schools all over America today will be doing an
    inventory of what kinds of supports they have for their children. And
    they will--I expect, just because we're doing this, your principal and
    your teachers will be flooded with inquiries over the next 2 weeks about
    what you have done here, about the peer mediation thing, about what kind
    of social workers you have, what kind of psychologist do you have, what
    kind of support do you have, because I think we will see everybody
    taking a serious look at this.
        I'm glad you made that point, though, because there are people who
    have genuine emotional problems that require more professional, intense,
    longer term help than even the peer mediators can provide. So I think
    that's an important point you make.

    [A student stated that other schools should have the violence prevention
    alternatives offered at T.C. Williams and asked when the Government
    would take action.]

        The President. Well, first of all, you should know that we have
    provided, already, funds--last year--for a lot of these services for
    schools. And the Attorney General and the
    Secretary of Education put out a booklet
    that basically cited the best practices in all the schools.
        We don't--the Federal Government doesn't run this high school. You
    know, you have a local school board, and most of the money comes from
    the State. We give some money, so--but what we did, we sent out a
    handbook, which basically had the best practices, for early warning
    signals, for preventive programs, for the kinds of things that you do
    here. And we've provided a lot of support to help schools to have the
    services they need to make them more safe.
        Now, in the next few days I'm going to send another piece of
    legislation up to the Congress to do even more of this. But for it to
    work, people have to use the resources that are there and implement the
    systems that are there, and it has to be done in every school in the
    country.
        Let me just say--this is kind of along the lines of your question--
    when I called the county commissioner in Littleton, Colorado, the woman who is in charge of the local county
    government there, she was very, I thought, quite brave, considering it
    was in the middle of this crisis. The school hadn't even been--not all
    the children had been taken out yet. And she said, ``Well, if this can
    happen here, it can happen anywhere, and maybe, finally, every school in
    America will do what is necessary to try to prevent this.''
        So we have--last year we had the first White House conference in
    history on school safety. We have sent things to every school in
    America, and we have--and I said I'm going to send another bill this
    week, or in the next few days, to do more. But it has to--every school
    has to realize that if you want to be safe, you have to be prepared,
    just like you are here.
        Yes.

    [A student stated that parents, teachers, government, and students
    should work together to prevent school violence and provide for the
    common welfare of the community. Another student said that having an
    anonymous hotline was very important. Another commented that racism
    should stop. Another student stated that there were no guarantees
    against future violence, and high school students all over America
    needed to be more sensitive to others and more considerate.]

        The President. I must say, these things you say to me are among the
    most impressive things of all, because all of us want to be part of
    groups, and we are part of groups whether we like it or not. We're all
    part of groups. You know, we just--from the families we're born in and
    the lives we live. And the trick is to convince people that it's good to
    be part of a group, a racial, an ethnic, a religious, a cultural group,
    to be an athlete, to be a scholar, to be into music, to be into
    whatever. But it's

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    not--it doesn't have to be negative when compared with someone else.
    That's the thing that breaks your heart.
        And also, it's very important--another reason I like this hotline
    and I like what you said is that it's very hard to be 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
    years old; and if you are very lonely and very alienated and you feel
    you don't belong with anybody or anything, and then all of a sudden, one
    or two other people come along, and they're just like you, and then you
    find something on the Internet that you can read that you can relate to,
    and then things begin to spin out of control. And I think what you said
    about reaching out to people who seem to be alone and have nobody to
    care about them, I think that's very, very important as well.
        I think that you know it a lot better than I do. But as old as I am,
    I can still remember, it was--I had some pretty tough times when I was
    13, 14, 15, 16 years old, and I had a very fortunate life. You realize
    how hard you have to work to keep from getting into patterns that will
    be destructive throughout life, where people feel that they only count
    when they're in a group, that then they're opposed to somebody else,
    they can look down on somebody else. It is the curse of human society
    throughout the world.
        Go ahead. You two, and then--this young man hasn't spoken yet, but
    go ahead. We'll get you the mike as soon as he is finished. Who wants to
    go next? Go ahead.

    [A student said that young people were more desensitized to the value of
    human life than they had been 20 years ago and therefore some violent
    students may not have understood the impact of what they had done.]

        The President. Yes. Let me say this: I really respect all of you
    very much to have said that this is a matter of personal responsibility,
    family responsibility, and you don't want to blame the culture. I
    respect you for saying that--I don't want to blame the movies or blame
    the video games; what you've said and how you've talked with your mother
    and everything.
        But I think you have to recognize--let me just say, for example,
    when I was your age, if anything, the racism was more pronounced; the
    social hierarchies in the schools were dramatic, between those who were
    in and those who were out; people fought regularly on the school
    grounds, and they were vicious to each other and--but you didn't have as
    much gun violence.
        And I think it is unquestionable that more people have more access
    to more weapons, and more people at an earlier age can move from
    profound alienation and misery into using violence against others than
    was the case 20 or 30 years ago, because they either have--they have
    more opportunities and because they've been desensitized and maybe
    because they don't have a chance to sit down with a mother or a father
    the way you do every night.
        So the only thing I'm saying is, I think it's important not to
    oversimplify this. And I hate it when people blame someone else and
    don't take responsibility for what they did, but I don't think we can be
    blind to the fact that there are more opportunities and there is a
    greater openness to taking violent action on the part of alienated
    people today than there was 20 or 30 years ago.
        And I think the experience that these children have before, maybe--
    maybe even when they're very young, before they form proper barriers in
    life about what's right, what's wrong, what can or can't be done, makes
    them quite vulnerable.
        Go ahead. Who was next? This young man.

    [A student said there might be a backlash against people who were into
    the Gothic culture and rock music that would be blamed for instigating
    the situation in Littleton. He also expressed concern that students
    might be suspended on the spot for angry words.]

        The President. So how do you think we should deal with that?

    [The student said that people should be more careful about what they say
    and find healthier ways to deal with anger. He said the school provided
    counselors and psychologists for students to talk to, but he was able to
    discuss his problems with his family.]

        The President. Good for you. Let me say just generally, I don't
    think--if all of you who have participated in this conflict resolution
    thing, maybe you've seen enough of this in other students to know this--
    but I can tell you from having lived a lot more years, this is a big
    problem later in life, too. Sometimes it's a bigger problem for men than
    for women because of the cultural sort of preconceptions of our society.

    [[Page 599]]

        If you don't learn to talk about your feelings when you're young,
    and you don't have a constructive outlet for it, it just gets harder and
    harder and harder as you get older. And we're talking today about
    avoiding terrible tragedy. But we ought to talk just a minute about
    having a good life. You know, most people won't do anything really
    terrible, and most people will have some sort of life, but if you want
    to have a good life, you have to have some constructive outlet for your
    feelings.
        And that's one thing that I really like about this whole way we're
    talking today. And I hope that it's something that will go out across
    the country and will change the way young people just live their lives.
    And I hope it's something you can take out of high school, because you'd
    be amazed how many people my age, in very responsible positions, still
    can't manage their anger because they never learned to have a
    constructive way to talk about it.
        So this is not just--I mean, I know we're here to talk about this
    school violence, and I don't want to get off the subject, but I think
    that this is a general problem of life. And you have said a very
    important thing. And I hope that all of you will remember this, that
    it's not just something for high school. And to avoid having bad things
    happen, learning to manage your anger and to actually share how you
    really feel about something and get it behind you is one of the most
    important aspects of growing up. And you would be amazed how few people
    can really do it right.

    [A student noted how easy it was for the Littleton attackers to get guns
    and stressed the need for regulation of weapons.]

        The President. There is no other country in the world where it is so
    easy for people to get and misuse weapons. And we have a culture of
    having a right to own weapons and a right to use them and a big hunting
    culture, and I grew up in it, participated in it, and enjoyed it very
    much.
        But I have--every little thing I've tried to do, from the passing of
    the Brady bill to the passing of the assault weapons ban, all these
    things have met with violent opposition, as if I were trying to destroy
    the American way of life. And all I'm trying to do is keep more people
    alive.
        And so I think that we need--we don't have, really, time to talk
    about this, because I want all of you to talk, but this will be a part
    of what we are trying to do, to strike a better, proper balance between
    making it harder for people who are violent to get guns and misuse them,
    without interfering with the constructive role that it plays in our
    society.
        Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry.
        Ms. Harmon. I was just going to say, we're
    running a little short on time. Maybe we could take a few more
    questions. It's up to you.
        The President. Yes. Go ahead.

    [A student stressed that high schools must avoid easy answers that would
    restrict students' rights and ensure their security at the cost of their
    freedom.]

        The President. First, I think that's a point well taken. You
    mentioned school uniforms. Let me tell you the position I took on that.
    I spent some time in Long Beach, California, which is the third biggest
    school district in California, which means it's huge. And it's the
    biggest school district that early introduced the school uniform policy,
    not applied to high schoolers for obvious reasons. But they did it in
    part because when the junior high schoolers had uniforms, which were
    basically just two-color outfits they wore every day, it distinguished
    them from the gangs, which created a safety problem. And it made all the
    kids safe.
        But they found, interestingly enough, that kids from upper income as
    well as lower income families did better in those very troubling years
    where you're moving right into your teenage years. And it lowered
    dropouts; it increased attendance; it reduced discipline problems. It
    worked fine. What we tried to do was to say if the community decided
    they wanted to do it, then we would help them. And we've seen it happen
    a lot.
        Now, my only question in this regard, in the order question you
    asked--and, again, I think it's very important that we not rush to
    judgment in Littleton. Those people are still grieving. They are still
    heartbroken. We do not have the facts there. It is very important that
    none of us make judgments about that now. But we can make judgments
    about how we want all schools to run.
        But one of the things that struck me there was this whole black
    trenchcoat deal, and whether or not--if the hotline, if they'd had a
    hotline, and whether or not you had this kind of stuff there--whether
    the school administrators should

    [[Page 600]]

    have been able to say, ``We're not going to have a school uniform
    policy, but we'll have a nonprovocative dress code policy.'' Is that too
    much of an infringement on individual liberty?
        We can't answer that question. You've raised a good question. But
    let me just give you the other side of it. And you have to decide, in
    every case, whether it's an infringement on liberty or it's like going
    through a metal detector at an airport. I don't know how many times--
    before I became President, I was just traveling around like all the rest
    of us--how many times I went through a metal detector at an airport, and
    I set it off because of my belt buckle or the money clip in my pants or
    whatever, so I had to turn around, take it all out, go back in, blah
    blah blah. Well, when all this started, people said, ``Well, is this
    going to be an infringement on our liberty, right?'' And then people saw
    planes hijacked and blown up, and they said, ``Please infringe on my
    liberty a little bit''--[laughter]--so that no one felt--I say, nearly
    no one felt that it was an undue infringement on our liberty.
        I'll give you another, maybe what you think is a harder case,
    motorcycle helmet laws. You'll say, ``I ought to have a right to split
    my head open if I want.'' But that's not entirely true, because if I hit
    you and you split your head open, and you wouldn't have if you'd had
    your helmet on, then I and society are supporting you, in a way.
        So these questions--I am glad you made the point, but the point
    needs to be debated against the larger--the other large issue of
    individual freedom versus heading this stuff off. That's all I'm asking.
    And you might keep little models in your head about the importance of
    free speech, see, on the one hand, and the airport metal detector on the
    other, and then whenever somebody comes up with a specific, argue it
    within that framework.A student stated that the First Lady knew what she
    was talking about in saying that it takes a whole village to raise
    children and that if everyone would just look out for everyone else's
    children, good things would happen.]
        The President. I agree with that. Thank you. [Laughter] I think
    that's very important, that--one of you asked me what I was going to do.
    I think that the import of what everybody said, all of you said today,
    is that we all have responsibilities here and that all these children
    are our children and we all have responsibility.
        Who's next?
        Ms. Harmon. I'm sorry to have to say this,
    but the afternoon is drawing to a close here; students do have to move
    on. And we're delighted----
        The President. You guys have got to get on the buses, right?

    [Ms. Harmon thanked the students and the
    President for participating.]

        The President. Let me just say this--I know we've got to sign off--
    first, you were terrific, and I thank you. I thank you for being honest.
    I thank you for being forthright. Second, in the next few days, as the
    agony of the grief fades in Colorado and as the facts tend to come out
    more, I think--I'm speaking not only to those of you who are here in
    this room but the millions of children all across our country who are
    listening and the teachers and the educators--we are going to be working
    hard on this. And anyone who has more ideas for us needs to feel free to
    send them to us at the White House and send them to the Secretary of
    Education.
        We are working to reach out to the country. We want to do what we
    can to create more environments like this one and to do everything we
    can to minimize the chance that anything like this will happen again.
    And we want to, in the process, reassure the children and the parents of
    America that overwhelmingly our schools are good, safe places.
        Thank you.

    Note: The discussion began at 12:45 p.m. in the media center. In his
    remarks, the President referred to John Porter, principal, T.C. Williams
    High School; Herbert M. Berg, superintendent, Alexandria City schools;
    Mayor Kerry Donley of Alexandria; and Patricia B. Holloway, chair,
    Jefferson County, CO, Board of Commissioners.