    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1998, Book I)]
    [March 26, 1998]
    [Pages 445-447]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Tavis Smiley of Black
    Entertainment Television in
    Cape Town
    March 26, 1998

    President's Visit to Africa

        Mr. Smiley. Mr. President, nice to see you. Thanks for talking to
    us. Let me start by asking you how you're holding up. I'm having--it's
    my first time traveling in the White House press pool; I'm tired of
    trying to keep up with you. You must be tired.
        The President. Yes, I have a couple periods during the day still
    where I get a little tired or jet-lagged. We've been traveling at night
    a lot. But the trip is so exciting it kind of keeps the adrenalin
    flowing.
        Mr. Smiley. Let me ask you, if I can, Mr. President, to share your
    impressions of Africa. You at this point have now visited three African
    countries, three quite diverse African countries. I'm wondering if you
    can share your impressions; is Africa what you expected it to be upon
    your arrival?
        The President. Yes, it's what I expected it to be, but it's even
    more interesting, more fascinating than I though it would be. It's a
    place that's just brimming with energy and, I think, basic good will on
    the part of the citizens of the countries that I met. I think it's a
    place of great opportunity for the United States. I think it's a place
    that we should be far more concerned about than we have been in the past
    and a place that can be a good partner for us in dealing with the
    challenges of this new century we're about to enter.
        Mr. Smiley. And to move, if I can, from talking about the continent
    to the content of some of what you've had to say--and I'm wondering
    specifically, Mr. President, how you think some of your remarks are
    going to play back home, particularly to those outside of the African-
    American community? You've made some rather provocative statements; many
    African-Americans have been pleased by those remarks. You said in Ghana
    that we all came out of Africa; folks were surprised to hear you say
    that. In Uganda, you said that everyone--that European-Americans,
    rather, had benefited from the fruits of the slave trade and that we
    were wrong in that as well. In Rwanda, you said we didn't move fast
    enough to deal with the genocide happening there. Some provocative
    statements, again, pleasing the African-American community in large, I
    think, but how do you think those provocative statements are going to
    play outside of the black community?
        The President. Well, I would hope that they would play well. At
    least, I hope that they would prompt all my fellow Americans to think.
    What I said about us all coming out of Africa is, as far as we all know,
    absolutely accurate. That is, the oldest known species of humanity from
    all the archaeological and anthropological studies are people who were
    in Africa. We just--I just read an article about two people walking
    upright, where they found footprints that are 2 million years old right
    near where we're doing this interview. So that's just a simple fact.
        When I talked about the slave trade, I meant that when I was in
    Uganda. The Europeans basically organized the slave trade. They yanked
    Africans out of their lives and turned them into slaves. But Americans
    bought them, and therefore, we were part of the slave trade. Quite

    [[Page 446]]

    apart from the injury to the slaves that were in America, what we did to
    Africa was wrong. And I thought it was important to acknowledge that,
    that it wasn't just--that Americans weren't just simply passive in that.
        And finally, I think we all recognize that the world was not
    particularly well organized for the breathtaking speed of the genocide
    in Rwanda. Take it out of Africa--if you look at what happened in
    Bosnia, where many, many people were killed and millions were
    dislocated, it took the international community more than 2 years to get
    organized enough for the U.N. to support a NATO action that NATO took
    and then for NATO to come in with our allies--Russia and the others,
    many other countries, two dozen other countries--to stop the killing in
    Bosnia and effect a peace settlement.
        In Rwanda, where you had a million people killed in 90 days, it is
    simply a fact that the United States, Europe, Japan, and the whole
    United Nations, the whole world community--we were not organized for or
    prepared for the consequences.
        I'm proud of what the United States did when we finally got to
    Rwanda. We saved hundreds of thousands of people's lives who were
    refugees, children who might have died from dehydration and disease, for
    example. But I think this is the--what happened in Rwanda should be a
    clear message to not just Americans but to the world community that
    these are things that we can stop from happening and keep countries on a
    more positive course if we're well organized.
        And it was particularly tragic in Rwanda, because Rwanda is not a
    country that was created by European colonial mapmakers. It was a
    coherent entity long before colonialism in Africa. And the Hutus and the
    Tutsis lived together literally for centuries, speaking the same
    language, having the same religious practices, dividing their society on
    lines that were quite different from tribal lines. So it was a world-
    class tragedy.
        Mr. Smiley. Let me ask you whether or not these, as I termed them
    earlier, provocative comments that you made were planned. I talked to a
    lot of folks in the White House pool, and no one will tell me that they
    had any idea that you were going to make the kinds of statements you've
    been making. I'm wondering whether or not, then, these statements were
    planned or whether you got caught up in the moment where the emotion is
    overtaking you. Were they planned remarks?
        The President. One was planned, and two were remarks that I thought
    I ought to say to try to get the American people to identify more
    closely with Africa and then to look to the future--to a common future.
        We clearly planned to acknowledge the deficiencies of the United
    States and the world community in dealing with the Rwanda genocide. The
    Secretary of State had already been
    here and done the same thing, and I thought it was important that I do
    it as well, to focus the attention of the world on what we have to do to
    keep things like this from happening in the future, not just in Africa
    but everywhere.
        The comment about our involvement in the slave trade and what it did
    to Africa, as well as what it did to African-Americans who became
    slaves, was a comment that I decided to make based on my feelings about
    the situation and my reading of what would be appropriate.
        The comment about how we all came out of Africa was--I think is
    just--to the best of our knowledge, is simply an anthropological fact
    and that Americans ought to know that. I don't think--I got interested
    in this because Hillary spent a lot
    of time over the last 2 years studying the origins of humankind, and I
    learned a lot through her extensive reading and study. And I think that
    it's one more way to make all Americans identify with Africa and with
    the common humanity we share with people across the globe.
        Mr. Smiley. I know you're leaving in just a moment to go speak to
    Parliament here in Cape Town, South Africa, so let me squeeze out a
    couple quick questions, and I'll let you go. I'm wondering whether or
    not you think this trip is going to dispel the negative stereotypes and
    myths about Africa. You've said repeatedly you want to put a new face on
    Africa for Americans.
        My sense is that a lot of what's happening here, certainly much of
    what's happening here, in my own judgment, is not being portrayed
    accurately by the American media, some things being taken out of
    context. I'm thinking now specifically of the incident in Ghana when the
    crowd lunged first. I know you were concerned about people on the front
    line. That was not initially portrayed by the American media as
    accurately as it should have been. I'm wondering whether or not you
    think that the trip ultimately will dispel the myths about Africa that
    you're concerned about, or do you think that what you

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    are trying to do, your efforts are in some way being overshadowed by
    some press people who insist on raising questions on other matters that
    have nothing to do with why you are here in Africa.
        The President. Oh, no. Well, I think that the trip is getting, I
    think, basically constructive, positive, and accurate coverage back
    home, as nearly as I can tell. Now, in Ghana, where we had a half
    million people--and more if you count the people who were right outside
    the square there--there was a little metal fence dividing me from the
    people. And when I was shaking hands, the enthusiasm of the crowd was
    such--and this has happened to me in America, not just in Ghana, but
    it's the biggest crowd I've ever spoken with--there were two women there
    who were--and it was over 100 degrees; keep in mind it was very hot, and
    they had been out there a long time--and they couldn't breathe. They
    were literally being crushed against the fence. So what I was worried
    about was that just the crowd, the enthusiasm and the happiness, the
    ardor of the crowd would inadvertently cost those women their lives. And
    I was just trying to help them. But it was a wonderful, wonderful event.
        I think basically this trip will end a lot of the stereotypes that
    people have. I think people tend to think that--who don't know much
    about Africa--that all they ever read is when there are troubled tribal
    societies and they're fighting with each other or there's one more
    military coup or one more failed democracy. And half the countries in
    sub-Saharan Africa have elected leaders of their own choosing. They're
    more and more interested in market economies. They're struggling to
    provide basic education and other services like health. And they're very
    interested in being a part of the world of the 21st century. And the
    people are so energetic, and they're intelligent people who are looking
    to the future.
        And what I want Americans to do is to imagine what we can do with
    Africa in the future as partners. I believe that this trip will
    contribute to that, and I certainly hope it will.

    Addressing the Legacy of Apartheid and Slavery

        Mr. Smiley. Let me ask you, finally, Mr. President--I mentioned
    earlier that you are headed to speak to Parliament as soon as we leave
    here--as soon as you leave here. I am told that you may, may, in fact,
    speak to the issue of apartheid and America's complicity in that
    certainly for many, many years. How would you respond to particularly
    African-Americans back home who ask of their President, respectfully,
    how he could address apartheid in Africa and not address America's
    version of apartheid, the legacy of slavery and segregation, back at
    home?
        The President. Well, I would say that we are addressing the legacy
    of slavery back home, that this race--we addressed apartheid with the
    Civil War, with the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments, later with all the
    civil rights legislation. I think it's plain that there is a deep
    determination in America to overcome the mistakes of our past and the
    injustice we did.
        But the race initiative that I set up in America is focused on the
    future. I think the same thing should be done here. While it is true
    that the American Government for many years, in effect, was complicit in
    the apartheid in South Africa by the cooperation with and support of the
    South African Government, it's also true that Americans had a lot to do
    with ending apartheid here by the sanctions, the legislation that swept
    cities and States across the country that the Congress eventually put
    forward at the national level.
        So I think Mr. Mandela would say that Americans of all racial and
    ethnic backgrounds had a lot to do with creating the international
    climate of opposition to apartheid in South Africa.
        But what we need to be doing today in South Africa and in the United
    States is dealing with the legacy of apartheid here and slavery and
    racial discrimination there, insofar as it still needs to be stamped
    out, but our focus ought to be on the future. The only way we can
    liberate people from the problems of the past is to focus on tomorrow.
    And that's what I'm going to do in my speech today and what I'm trying
    to do with the race initiative back home.
        Mr. Smiley. Mr. President, thank you for your time. It's nice to see
    you.
        The President. Thank you. It's really good to see you.

    Note: The interview was recorded at approximately 3 p.m. at the Cape
    Grace Hotel for later broadcast on ``BET Tonight.'' In his remarks, the
    President referred to President Nelson Mandela of South Africa. The
    transcript was made available by the Office of the Press Secretary on
    March 26 but was embargoed for release until 6 a.m. on March 27. A tape
    was not available for verification of the content of this interview.