    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1998, Book I)]
    [June 30, 1998]
    [Pages 1098-1104]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Remarks in a Call-In Program on Shanghai Radio 990
    June 30, 1998

        President Clinton. First of all, I want to thank the mayor for welcoming me to Shanghai, and say I very much
    enjoyed my first morning here. We did go to the library, my wife and I
    did, and we met with a number of citizens from in and around Shanghai
    who are involved in one way or another in China's remarkable
    transformation. And they helped us a lot to understand what is going on
    in China.
        I also want to say a word of appreciation to President Jiang for the very good meeting we had in Beijing and for
    making it possible for me to reach out to the people of China through
    televising our press conference together. And then, of course, I went to
    Beijing University yesterday, ``Beida,'' and spoke with the students
    there and answered questions. And that was also televised.
        And then to be here in Shanghai, one of the very most exciting
    places in the entire world, to have the chance to begin my visit here
    with this radio program is very exciting. So I don't want to take any
    more time. I just want to hear from the questioners and have a
    conversation, so that when it's over, perhaps both the American people
    and the people of China will understand each other better.
        Program Host Zuo Anlong. Mr. President, you
    already can see our TV screen--right in front of you there are so many
    people waiting in line to talk to you. We're really happy about this.
    How about we just start right here, okay?
        President Clinton. Let's do it.

    Asian Financial Crisis

    [The first caller asked about the Asian financial crisis and increasing
    cooperation between China and the United States.]

        President Clinton. First of all, Mr. Fong, that is a very good
    question, and it has occupied a major amount of my time since last year,
    when we saw the difficulties developing in Indonesia, in the
    Philippines, in Thailand, in Korea, and of course, in Japan.
        I would like to begin by saying I believe that China has done a very
    good job in holding its currency stable, in trying to be a force of
    stability during the Southeast Asian crisis. Secondly, we are working
    together, the U.S. and China, and we are working through the IMF to try
    to help all these countries stabilize their economies and then restore
    growth.
        But I think the last point I'd like to make is that we cannot see
    growth restored in Asia unless it is restored in Japan. Now, in Japan
    the people are about to have an election for the upper house of the
    Diet, so this is not an easy time for them. But the Government is going
    to disclose in the next couple of days what it intends to do in the area
    of financial reform.
        If it is a good proposal and the confidence of the investors of the
    world is raised, then I believe you will see the situation begin to

    [[Page 1099]]

    turn around, and the pressure will be eased in China, and we can see
    some economic growth come back to Japan and these other countries. It is
    very important to the United States and very important to China. We're
    working hard on it.

    [Mr. Zuo noted that China was working hard not to devalue its currency,
    and then asked Mayor Xu Kuangdi of Shanghai about
    trade between the U.S. and Shanghai. Mayor Xu noted that trade with the
    U.S. was up 30 percent in the first 5 months of the year, with imports
    and exports fairly balanced because Shanghai imported a lot of U.S.
    high-tech products, and he said he hoped that would continue. The next
    caller, an employee of the Shanghai Library which the President had
    toured, asked about increasing exchanges between American libraries and
    the Shanghai Library.]

    China-U.S. Library Cooperation

        President Clinton.  Well, first of all, I think that we need to make
    sure that all of our major libraries are connected through the Internet,
    so that we can ship information back and forth over the Internet that is
    not available in the libraries themselves. For example, if you had total
    Internet connection with the New York Public Library, which is our
    largest public library, then there would be things that you have they
    don't have, but you could send them over the Internet. There would be
    things that they have that you don't have that could be shared.
        So what I will do, since you have asked this question, is, when I
    get home, I will ask the people who are in charge of our major
    libraries, the Library of Congress, which is the biggest library in
    Washington, DC--it's our national library--and the New York Public
    Library, and perhaps one or two others, to get in touch with the
    Shanghai Library and see whether we can establish a deeper partnership.
        I was very impressed that the Shanghai Library has 300,000 members
    who actually pay the annual membership fee, 10 yuan. And I think that--
    we have many people using our libraries, too. I would also like to
    figure out, if I might, how these big libraries in America and China can
    better serve the small libraries in the rural areas, where people are so
    hungry for information and they don't have as much as we do, those of us
    who live in the bigger areas. So I will work on this.

    [Mr. Zuo agreed on the importance of library outreach to rural areas.]

        President Clinton. But as you know, you now have the computers with
    the Internet hookups, and if you have printers there, then people all
    over China can order articles out of the Shanghai Library and just print
    them out on the computer. So that all you have to have now is a hookup
    with a printer in the small libraries, in the smallest villages, and
    anything in the Shanghai Library can be sent to them. Of course, it's
    more expensive if it's a book. But if it's just an article, it's easy to
    print out, takes just a couple of minutes.

    [Mayor Xu discussed the challenge of getting computer technology out to
    the countryside, noting that a lot of people there still had no
    electricity. He also pointed out that Shanghai Library memberships
    funded only 5 percent of the library budget and that the government made
    up a lot of the rest, but that he was willing to do so because
    investment in education was important. Another caller then noted that
    both the President and Mayor Xu had a history of involvement with
    education issues and asked them to discuss the future of China-U.S.
    educational exchanges.]

    Educational Opportunity

        President Clinton. Well, first of all, let me say that we are
    working very hard in America to make sure that more of our own people go
    on to university and also acquire the skills necessary to operate in the
    computer age. So, I have worked very hard to open the doors of
    universities to more people, to make sure that the cost of the education
    is not a bar to people going.
        Now, in addition to that, we want to promote more exchanges of
    students. I want more American students to go to other places in the
    world, including China, to study, to learn the language, to learn the
    culture, to understand the nation. And I very much want to bring even
    more students from around the world to the United States to study. So
    perhaps there's something we can do coming out of this trip, the
    mayor and I, to have more exchanges with people
    from the Shanghai area, because I believe it's very important. And I
    think it will only grow more important as we move into this new century.

    [Mayor Xu agreed, noting that education in Shanghai was more universal
    than elsewhere in

    [[Page 1100]]

    China. He said 60 percent of high school graduates in Shanghai got into
    colleges, and he wanted to utilize radio, television, and adult
    education to make up the 40 percent gap. The mayor then discussed
    approaches to education, noting that the Chinese stressed more
    discipline, which was good for order but could discourage open
    interaction, whereas American classrooms allowed for more freedom, which
    in the opinion of Chinese educators created chaos. The mayor said both
    approaches had value, and the two countries should learn from each
    other.]

        President Clinton. Well, actually, here's a case where I think we
    would greatly benefit from working together, because there is no perfect
    system. If you just start with the issue of discipline, we know that
    without a certain amount of discipline and order in the classroom, it's
    impossible for learning to occur. We also know if there is too much
    order, where everything is structured, the child may close up and not be
    open to information and to learning. So we have tried all kinds of
    things.
        In our country, for example, now many of our schools are going back
    to an older practice of requiring the students to wear uniforms every
    day, as is the case in many other countries, on the theory that it makes
    people more disciplined. It also gives a spirit of equality. This is
    sweeping our country, really, and doing very well. On the other hand, we
    want enough freedom in the classroom so that the children have the
    confidence they need to participate in the class discussion.
        Now, on the second matter, which I think is very important, does
    education emphasize drilling information into the head of the student,
    or should it emphasize sort of creative or critical thinking? I think
    the answer is, clearly, both. How can you be a creative thinker if you
    don't know something in the first place? First, you must know what you
    need to know. You must have the information.
        On the other hand, if you look at how fast things are changing--in
    this information age, the volume of facts in the world is doubling every
    5 years. That's a stunning thing. The volume of information is doubling
    every 5 years. Therefore, it's very important not only what you know
    today but what you are capable of learning and whether you can apply
    what you know to solving new problems.
        So I think what we need is a careful balance between making sure our
    students have the bedrock information without which you can't make those
    decisions, but also learn to be creative in the way you think to deal
    with the exploding information of the world.

    [Mayor Xu agreed on the need for a new consensus on concepts of
    education. He cited an example of Chinese parents, accustomed to the
    methods of Chinese education, who were dissatisfied with visiting
    American high school teachers because the teachers did not give enough
    tests.]

        President Clinton. But, to be fair, we need more exchanges, too,
    because what sometimes happens in America is, if you don't have pretty
    high standards for measuring whether everybody knows what they should
    know, then the very best students may do better under our system and
    they go on and win the Nobel Prizes or they create the new companies,
    but we leave too many behind because we don't make sure they know.
        So I think there's something we have to learn from each other, and
    we really should work on this. Because every advanced society--the
    Japanese could join with us in this; the Russians could join with us in
    this. We all have the same interests here in finding the right balance
    in our educational systems.

    [Mr. Zuo asked if investment in education could be justified despite the
    long payback period.]

        President Clinton. Well, it is a long payback period but it has the
    highest payback of any investment. If you invest in a child's
    education--maybe they're 5 years old when they start, and maybe they're
    in their early twenties when they get out of university--that's a long
    time. And you have to hire all these teachers along the way and pay for
    all the laboratory facilities and all that. But there's nothing more
    important. And then the young person gets out into a world in which
    ideas create wealth and gives back to society many times over.
        So people shouldn't look at it just as one person investing in
    another. It ought to be China investing in its future, the United States
    investing in its future, together investing in a peaceful, stable,
    prosperous world.
        Education, ideas, information--they give us the capacity to lift
    people out of poverty and to lift people out of the ignorance that make

    [[Page 1101]]

    them fight and kill each other and to give us an understanding about how
    to solve the environmental problems of the world, which are great. This
    is worth investing in. It's more important than everything else. Yes, it
    takes a long time to pay out in the life of one child, but the payouts
    for a country are almost immediate.

    [Mr. Zuo agreed and suggested that in China-U.S. relations there must be
    investment for the future. Another caller then asked the President which
    sports he liked to play when he was in college, how he maintained his
    energy at work, and which soccer team he thought would win the World
    Cup.]

        Mr. Zuo. Oh yes, so many questions. You threw a lot of questions at
    him all at once.

    Sports

        President Clinton. Well, when I was in college, I liked to play
    basketball, which is very popular in America, and I liked to jog. I have
    jogged--I am a runner, you know, and I did that for most of the last
    almost 30 years. Then about a year and half ago, I hurt my leg, and I
    couldn't run for several months. And I began to work on the
    Stairmaster--you know, it's the machine--you find them in a lot of these
    gyms--you walk up and down stairs. And I do that quite a lot now because
    it's quicker than running. And I play golf. I like golf very much. It's
    my favorite sport. Even though it doesn't burn a lot of calories, it
    makes my mind calm, so I like it.
        Now, on the World Cup, it's hard for me to predict. I will say this,
    the World Cup is now becoming important to Americans in the way it's
    important to other countries, because soccer came rather late to America
    because we had football and basketball. Now, more and more of our
    children are playing soccer. And I think the World Cup is a great way of
    bringing people together. You know, the United States has been estranged
    from Iran for a long time, but we had this great soccer game and they
    beat us fair and square--it was heartbreaking for Americans, but they
    won a great, fascinating soccer match, and they eliminated us from the
    World Cup.
        I'm not an expert in soccer, but I think the Brazilians are always
    hard to beat. I've watched them play a lot, and they're very good.

    Iran-U.S. Relations

    [Mr. Zuo asked about ``soccer diplomacy'' in the context of the Iran-
    U.S. World Cup competition.]

        President Clinton. I think it could be possible. The Iranians like
    wrestling very much, and we have exchanged wrestling team visits. And
    they treated our American wrestlers with great respect and friendship,
    which meant a great deal to me. And then we were honored to receive
    their wrestlers.
        So I think--the new President of Iran
    seems to be committed to not only lifting the economic and social
    conditions of his people but also having a more regular relationship
    with the rest of the world, in accordance with international law and
    basically just conditions of good partnership. So I'm hoping that more
    will come out of this.
        But I think Americans were riveted by the soccer game. And they were
    impressed, because we were supposed to win the game and we had lots of
    chances and our players played very well. They played very well; they
    had lots of chances; they could have scored eight times or something.
    But the Iranians had two fast breaks, and they played with such passion.
    And they had those two chances, and they capitalized on both of them.
    And we respect that. It was very good.

    Automobiles and the Environment

    [The next caller asked Mayor Xu if Shanghai's encouragement of private
    cars would make traffic conditions worse and contribute to environmental
    pollution. Mayor Xu responded that the city government had not
    encouraged private car ownership but had simply relaxed regulations
    related to it because Shanghai's growth had caused many to require
    transportation into the city from outlying areas. He acknowledged the
    need to focus on public transportation systems, develop a better
    understanding of roadway management, use unleaded gasoline, and require
    emissions filters.]

        Mr. Zuo. Even though Mr. President is here, look at this--some of
    the people here are still interested in asking questions of the mayor
    about their city, because they're interested and they're excited.
        President Clinton. Well, they should be. I mean, that's a very basic
    thing.

    [[Page 1102]]

        I would like to comment on one thing the questioner asked, because I
    was impressed that he is concerned that if everyone has a private car,
    the air pollution will grow worse. Let me say, this is a big problem
    everywhere in the world. But I once told President Jiang, I said, my
    biggest concern is that China will get rich in exactly the same way
    America got rich. But you have 4 times as many people, so no one will be
    able to breathe because the air pollution will be bad.
        Now, one of the things that you need to know is that when a car, an
    automobile, burns gasoline, about 80 percent of the heat value of the
    gasoline is lost in the inefficiency of the engine. But they are now
    developing new engines, called fuel injection engines, where the fuel
    goes directly into the engine and it is about 4 times more efficient. So
    I hope that within a matter of just a few years, in the U.S., in China,
    and throughout the world, all these engines will be much, much less
    polluting. And that will be very good for the health of the people of
    China and for the health of world environment.
        Mayor Xu. Correct. That's a good thing. We
    right now are in the process of thinking about natural gas, LNG, that
    is, using it for cars, for taxis----
        President Clinton. Very good.
        Mayor Xu. ----for buses. And at the same time, even for personal
    motorcycles, we're thinking of making them electric instead of gasoline.

    [Mr. Zuo suggested that China's automobile policy should suit conditions
    in China.]

        President Clinton. Absolutely. I think, for one thing, you should be
    much more disciplined than we were about making sure you have good,
    high-quality mass transit, because in the cities where we have good mass
    transit, people use it. So if you have good mass transit, then I think
    people should be free to have cars, and it's a nice thing to have, but
    they won't have to drive them so much and you won't have the pollution
    problems.
        Then I think the city, as the mayor said, can set a good example.
    You can have electric vehicles; you can have natural gas vehicles. And
    then, as I said, within a few years, I believe all of us will be driving
    cars that, even if they use gasoline, will be much, much more efficient.
    Otherwise, if we don't do these things, the air pollution will be
    terrible, and it will create public health problems that will cost far
    more than the benefits of the automobile. You don't want that. And you
    can avoid it. You can avoid the mistakes we made with technology and
    good planning.

    Educational and Scientific Cooperation

    [The next caller said that while studying in America for a 10-month
    period, he had noticed American teachers' confusion about the Chinese
    dialects of Mandarin and Cantonese. He asked about encouraging better
    understanding, cooperation, and interaction between the two nations.]

        President Clinton. Well, first of all, I perfectly agree with you. I
    think that this is a very important point. That's why I came to China.
    That's why I am very pleased that the press conference I had with
    President Jiang was televised, and why I did a
    question-and-answer session at Beijing University yesterday, and why I'm
    doing this today. I think that we need more of this.
        And as I said to an earlier caller, when I go home I intend to see
    what I can do about sending more Americans to China and trying to make
    it possible for more Chinese to come to America. Because the more we do
    these things, the more we will be able to work through our differences
    and build a common future. And, besides that, it will make life more
    interesting and more fun.

    [The next caller asked about China-U.S. cooperation in science and
    technology.]

        President Clinton. We have had for many years a U.S.-China science
    and technology forum--[inaudible]--some research that has helped us to
    predict extreme weather events. And it has helped us to predict the
    coming of earthquakes.
        We have also had scientific research which has helped us to uncover
    the cause of a condition in newborn babies, called spina bifida, that is
    caused in part by the mother's having not enough folic acid. And that
    has helped us to have more healthy children. My wife yesterday--2 days ago talked to a mother whose first
    child was born with this condition, and the second child was born
    perfectly normal because of the research done by our people together.
        So we have made a commitment, President Jiang
    and I, to identify other areas where we will do more work. And if you or
    anyone listening to this program, if you have any ideas, you

    [[Page 1103]]

    ought to send them to this station or the mayor; they will send them on
    to me--because I think we should do more science research together.

    Response to President's Visit

    [A questioner asked if the President would be able to convince people
    who opposed his visit that he had done the right thing.]

        President Clinton. I believe that what the American people have seen
    already--that our media has reported back on my meeting with President
    Jiang, and the press conference, yesterday, the
    meeting with the students; today, the meeting with the citizens before I
    came over here, and this--it clearly shows that whatever differences we
    have in our systems and the differences of opinion we have about what
    human rights policy ought to be, what the scope of freedom of religion
    ought to be, any of these differences, that we still have a lot in
    common, and by working on the things we have in common we may also come
    to an understanding about how to manage our differences. And I believe
    that the forces of history will bring about more convergence in our
    societies going forward.
        The mayor and I were talking earlier about the
    education systems and how, in the end, we need to educate young people
    with the same kinds of skills. And I believe, as I have said repeatedly,
    that high levels of personal freedom are quite important to the success
    of a society in the information age because you need people who feel
    free to explore, to state their views, to explore their own convictions,
    and then live out their own dreams, and that this will add to the
    stability of a society by enriching it. That's what I believe.
        And we've been able to have these conversations here. And the
    Government and the people of China have been very open. Also, yesterday
    the students were very open in asking me some rather probing, difficult
    questions. And all of this, I think, is good. So I think the American
    people will see when I go home that this was a good thing that I came
    here. And it's a good thing that we have a working relationship.

    China and the World Trade Organization

    [The next caller asked about U.S. influence with regard to China and the
    World Trade Organization.]

        President Clinton. Yes. First of all, obviously I think it is
    important for China to be a member of the World Trade Organization
    because China is a major economic power that will grow only larger over
    time. Secondly, it should be obvious that we in the United States want
    to support China's economic growth. After all, we are by far the largest
    purchaser of Chinese exports. No other country comes close to the
    percentage of exports that we purchase in the United States. So we
    support your growth.
        But we believe that when China becomes a member of the WTO, it must
    do so on commercially reasonable terms; that is, you must allow access
    to your markets, not only of American products but of others as well,
    and there should be some open investment opportunities. And all of this
    should be done, however, in recognition of the fact that China is still
    an emerging economy, so you are entitled to have certain longer
    timetables and certain procedural help in this regard.
        So what we're trying to do in America is to say, okay, China should
    be in the World Trade Organization, but it has to be a commercially
    realistic set of understandings when you have memberships, and yet we
    owe you the right to a reasonable period of transition as you change
    your economy. And I think we'll get there. I think we'll reach an
    agreement before long.

    [Mayor Xu said he hoped for such an agreement. Mr. Zuo then expressed
    his regret that time was running short. He noted that the program was
    the first such format the President had participated in outside the U.S.
    and asked him for his impressions.]

    Closing Comments

        President Clinton. Well, first of all, I have enjoyed it very much.
    I want to thank all the people who called in with their questions and
    tell you that I'm sorry we didn't get to answer more questions. But it's
    always the way. People everywhere want to engage their leaders in
    dialog. And so I thank you for your questions. They were very good ones.
    And if I didn't get to answer your question, I'm sorry. But this has
    been a historic occasion. And perhaps now when I travel to other
    countries, I will ask them if they will do the same thing. This was a
    very good idea.

    [[Page 1104]]

    [Mr. Zuo thanked the President, and Mayor Xu then commented that he had
    learned a lot from the President. Mr. Zuo closed the program by thanking
    the participants and the audience.]

        President Clinton. Goodbye. Thank you.

    Note: The President spoke at 12:14 p.m. from the studios of Shanghai
    Radio, on Zuo Anlong's radio program entitled ``Citizens and Society in
    the 1990's.'' The program's topic was ``Moving U.S.-Sino Relations
    Forward into the 21st Century.''