    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1997, Book I)]
    [April 15, 1997]
    [Pages 443-444]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Chris Berman of ESPN in Queens
    April 15, 1997

    [The President's remarks are joined in progress.]

        The President. And if he hadn't done what he did and Branch Rickey
    hadn't done what he did, PeeWee Reese hadn't run the team like he did,
    it would have been a very different world. But Jackie Robinson--you
    know, someone--maybe fate has a way of doing that in history, but he
    was--he had the unique blend of talent and character to do what he did.
    And it's made a real difference.
        It made a real difference to the way people thought about race. I
    think that's more important than the fact that he was a great baseball
    player because baseball really was our national pastime then, too, and
    there was no competition from highly televised pro basketball or pro
    football or anything else. It was the thing. And so it was--as important
    as it was, and 3 years later basketball was integrated and other things
    happened--this was a huge deal. Most Americans now can't even imagine
    how big a deal it was.
        This was the year before President Truman signed the order to
    integrate the Army. This was a huge deal.
        Mr. Berman. It was really 15 years plus before marches in the
    sixties. I mean, it was so far ahead of its time----
        The President. Almost a decade before Rosa Parks. And it was
    baseball, so it was a statement about America. Anything you said about
    baseball in the forties and the early fifties, it was a statement about
    America.
        Mr. Berman. By the way, Olerud is at first base with a single; one
    out. But Bernard Gilkey is up.
        The President. He's doing better in New York, isn't he, although----
        Mr. Berman. Well, he's in another----
        The President. But he's hitting well again, and it's good. It's been
    a good move for him.
        Mr. Berman. It kind of got a little stale for him in Toronto.
        The President. Yes. It's good for him.
        Mr. Berman. Did you ever get up to see Jackie Robinson play? I don't
    know how many Cardinal games you went to. Arkansas was a good drive from
    there.
        The President. Only one time when I was a child. My father took me
    on a train to St. Louis to watch a game, but they weren't playing the
    Dodgers. But we didn't get a television until 1956, but it was right
    after the '55 season, right after the Boys of Summer. So for 2 years I
    sat transfixed in front of my television set. And tonight we had a
    contest in the place where I'm sitting to see how many people could
    remember the names of people on the '55 team--how many names you could
    remember. I quit at seven. And I hadn't even thought about it since. And
    I still remember the first time I saw Jackie Robinson, with that hitch
    in his swing and the way he ran sort of almost--on television it looked
    almost like he was bent over. It was an amazing thing. I remember just
    being transfixed by it.
        Mr. Berman. Well, you have these images all--the old crystal set,
    right, which was how you followed your baseball. And so many people did,
    certainly, in the fifties. When you finally saw him, or now that you've
    seen him afterwards on the old newsreels, et cetera, was that the image
    you had of him as a boy listening on the radio, or was he more
    impressive in person?
        The President. More impressive in person. But I used to do my
    homework at night listening to the Cardinals games on the radio. So I--I
    probably shouldn't say, it's a bad example for students of today.
        Mr. Berman. We all did it; we all did it.
        The President. But I did. And so, he was better than I thought he
    would be. He was beautiful. He was fabulous, watching him.
        Mr. Berman. You're excited about this evening, aren't you?
        The President. I am, it's very important. I think that it's also
    good for baseball. This night will capture the attention of America and
    make everybody forget about some of the things they didn't like that
    happened the last 2 years and make people fall in love with baseball
    again, I hope.
        Mr. Berman. As we did the night of the Cal Ripken thing.
        The President. Yes, we did.
        Mr. Berman. I have to ask you this. It's April 15th. Are your taxes
    done?

    [[Page 444]]

        The President. Yes. Paid them all.
        Mr. Berman. Because I might be able to get you an extension.
        The President. I don't think I ought to. I've got to set a good
    example, you know. [Laughter] I'm surprised all these baseball players
    shook hands with me tonight. They make more money than Jackie Robinson
    did, so they probably weren't very happy to see me tonight. [Laughter]
        Mr. Berman. Oh, I think they were. I think you honored everybody
    with your presence. Thank you for joining us.
        The President. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thanks.

    Note: The interview began at 8:45 p.m. at Shea Stadium. In his remarks,
    the President referred to civil rights activist Rosa Parks. He also
    referred to Executive Order 9981 of July 26, 1948 (13 FR 4313). The
    press release issued by the Office of the Press Secretary did not
    include the complete opening remarks of the President.