    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1996, Book II)]
    [August 30, 1996]
    [Pages 1425-1430]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Tabitha Soren of MTV
    August 30, 1996

        Ms. Soren. Welcome, Mr. President, to our Choose or Lose bus.
        The President. Thank you.

    Antidrug Efforts

        Ms. Soren. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this on
    your bus tour.
        In your speech last night you said that drugs were wrong and deadly.
    But on MTV a couple of years ago, someone asked you if you could
    inhale--if you could do it over again, would you inhale, and you said,
    ``Yeah, I tried the first time.''
        The President. That was true.
        Ms. Soren. Do you wish that you had answered differently? Because
    Republicans are planning on using this to attack you.
        The President. Oh, they're using it, but all I said was--I was just
    trying to make the point that I had never--when I answered the question
    I told the truth. I just told the truth about the question.
        Ms. Soren. It was a joke?
        The President. Yes.
        Ms. Soren. The question was, in context, it was a light-hearted----
        The President. It was a light-hearted question, and it wasn't in the
    context of some sort of endorsement of drug use, and they know that. If
    you look at the record I established as Governor, the record I've
    established as President, the things I've worked on, and if you look at
    the terrible price my own family has paid and my brother's problem which
    literally nearly killed him, I think that my position on this is clear.
        I'm very concerned about it really because every so often, you know,
    years go by and we see drug use going down. We still see drug use going
    down among adults; that's the interesting thing. In the last 4 years,
    drug use among people 18 to 34 has gone down because people have begun
    to think more about their own lives, their responsibilities then when
    they have children, and they began to be concerned about the risks.
        But every few years, apparently, younger people believe it's not
    dangerous anymore and believe that the risks, if there are any, can be
    borne. The risks of, let's say, cocaine, heroin, and hallucinogens and
    marijuana are different kinds of risks, but there are real risks
    associated with all of them. And I'm very hopeful, now that General
    McCaffrey has come on and agreed to be our drug czar and we're focusing
    now--I wouldn't say exclusively but clearly primarily on people under
    18, that we and people around the country will be able to do something
    about this.

    Democratic National Convention

        Ms. Soren. I wanted to ask you another question about the
    convention. I think a lot of people were confused by what they saw at
    both conventions; they saw singing Senators and delegates macarena-ing.
    Obviously it's a party, you know, but many people didn't hear the
    message coming from the conventions.
        For instance, obviously Christopher Reeve has done a lot of good for
    people who suffer from his disability, but why is his disability an
    argument to vote for you?
        The President. For two reasons. One is, Christopher Reeve made an
    impassioned plea for research. In my budget we have consistently
    invested more in research, both in health care areas like spinal cord
    disease, breast cancer, HIV, and AIDS, and also in science and
    technology. We're now building with IBM a computer, a supercomputer that
    will do more calculations in a second than a person with a hand-held
    calculator could do in 30,000 years--30,000

    [[Page 1426]]

    years. It's unbelievable. And I believe that it's very important to vote
    for a President who believes in the future and who is really committed
    to science and technology and research.
        The second reason is, as Christopher Reeve so eloquently told me
    when we were visiting in the Oval Office, not everyone who gets a
    serious injury and becomes disabled is wealthy; most people aren't, and
    even wealthy people can quickly be bankrupted by the cost of care. The
    Medicaid program which the Federal Government has maintained for 30
    years contains a guarantee of aid to families with disabilities who are
    middle class or below, to enable them to maintain a middle class life,
    to keep their jobs, and still give their disabled family member some
    help.
        In the budget--which I vetoed--of the Republican Congress, which
    Senator Dole and Mr. Gingrich led through Congress, they would have
    removed that guarantee, just sent some money to the States, put a lid on
    it, and then let the States decide what to do. And I think it's highly
    likely that the first people to be sacrificed would have been people
    with disabilities.
        So those are the two reasons that his being there embodied the human
    connection to the President and his actions, the Congress, and what
    happens to people's lives. And every other person that was there on
    Monday night, the same thing. The Brady bill, it was obvious because
    they talked about it. Mike Robbins, the Chicago police officer, was
    riddled with bullets by an assault weapon. The young AmeriCorps girl was
    important because the Republicans have tried to abolish AmeriCorps
    twice. The educator is important because they wanted to cut back on
    educational aid; I wanted to invest more money in education. So
    everybody there--the Toledo autoworker was important because we've
    opened new markets to Japan and other parts in the world and America is
    number one in auto production again.
        So we started our convention in a very different way. We had a whole
    series of citizens speaking to establish the connection between their
    vote and their lives.

    1996 Election

        Ms. Soren. Speaking of Senator Dole and the Republicans, the
    Republicans are accusing you of theft of their values agenda, stealing
    their ideas and making them your own. How do you plead?
        The President. Well, the Republicans tried for years to convince the
    American people that only one party had values. And unfortunately--I
    believe it was unfortunate--they were too often rewarded for that. But I
    never believed that only Republicans could stand up for the American
    family. I never believed that only Republicans could be tough on crime.
    I thought those were American issues.
        But if we were going to argue that they belonged to one party or
    another--I mean, here's a fact: The first bill I signed was the Family
    and Medical Leave Act. My predecessor, my Republican predecessor, vetoed
    it twice, and Senator Dole led the fight against it. Now, who is the
    more pro-family?
        I fought the crime bill through, which put 100,000 police on the
    street, banned assault weapons, and had tougher punishment programs and
    prevention programs for young people. The bitterest, I mean really,
    literally, bitterest opponent of the crime bill in the entire Congress
    was Senator Dole. Now, who is strong against crime? We've got 4 years of
    declining crime.
        So I didn't steal their values. On welfare reform, long before they
    ever passed a bill, 3 months into my Presidency I granted the first
    waiver to a State to try a welfare-to-work experiment. We now have 1.8
    million fewer people on welfare than we did the day I took office--
    before this welfare bill takes effect.
        So I didn't steal their values agenda. I believe they're American
    values, and I did something about it. And I think they're angry because
    they made so many votes for years just by talking about it and not doing
    anything about it. So we did something about it, and they're complaining
    about it.
        Ms. Soren. Are you afraid of being seen as sort of--are you afraid
    of your politics being perceived as sort of Republican-like, a less
    radical approach to their ideas?
        The President. No. Let me just take one other example.
        Ms. Soren. The only reason I ask is because people are wondering if
    you're the same person they elected in '92.
        The President. If you look at what we talked about at the
    convention, if you look at what we've done over the last 4 years--
    including in the last 2 years--the budget that I passed, I put the
    Democrats on the side of deficit reduction and balancing the budget,
    because I believe that. That's what I ran on. But all the Repub-

    [[Page 1427]]

    licans voted against our budget because it also made the Tax Code
    fairer. It lowered taxes on 15 million working people, asked those of us
    in the highest income groups, the top one percent of us, to pay a little
    more.
        They opposed me on family and medical leave, most of them did. They
    opposed my education reforms, all progressive things. They opposed the
    crime bill. Then when we finally got some action out of this last
    Congress, there was--the health care reform proposal was a big part of
    my health care reform bill that I signed. The minimum wage bill, the
    pension relief for small businesses, was legislation that I always
    advocated. So I think it sounds good. But what was the biggest thing I
    did in the last 2 years? I vetoed their budget.
        So I don't see how they can say I'm Republican-like. I just think
    that they like saying, ``We're for a balanced budget; the Democrats are
    big spenders. We're tough on crime; the Democrats are weak on crime.
    We're for work instead of welfare; the Democrats are for welfare instead
    of work.'' And even some of our own commentators kind of got hung up in
    that.
        If we protect children and we give families the right to and the
    tools they need to make the most of their own lives, we should be for a
    balanced budget, a growing economy, work instead of welfare, and tough
    on crime. So I feel very good about it, and I don't think it's
    inconsistent.

    Political Consultant Dick Morris

        Ms. Soren. Dick Morris helped you make a political comeback over the
    last 2 years, and he's been running, according to just about everyone, a
    phenomenal campaign. Now he's resigned. Will you still be talking to him
    on the phone about politics?
        The President. I don't plan to do that, no. But we do have a good
    team, and we all work together.
        Ms. Soren. You're not worried at all with him not being there?
        The President. No, because we have a good team. And everybody had a
    role to play, and we all agreed early on on a strategy. And then when
    we--we had a decisionmaking process which I think is very good, which
    I'm just going to keep in place. I'm going to keep the team I've got.
    I'm going to keep the decisionmaking process in place. And I think we'll
    do very well.
        Ms. Soren. So you won't be communicating with him anymore?
        The President. I don't have any plans to do that. I don't say I
    won't communicate with him. My wife and I and the Vice President all
    called him and just had a purely personal conversation.
        But this campaign is now the product of a record we have made and
    the proposals we have out there and the fact that we--our administration
    stood against what Mr. Gingrich and Mr. Dole tried to do in '95 and
    early '96. And those will be the salient elements that the American
    people will have to decide on, and we'll do the best we can. But I feel
    good about it.

    1996 Election

        Ms. Soren. There's talk in Republican circles of renewing character
    attacks on you because of their opinion that you surround yourself with
    questionable people. How are you going to respond?
        The President. I'm not. I'm going to keep doing my job. I think the
    reason that talk is there, though, is that way they don't have to talk
    about over 10 million new jobs; they don't have to talk about the fact
    that my Democratic administration is the first one to reduce the deficit
    in all 4 of its years, since before the Civil War; that our budget would
    be in surplus today if it weren't for the interest we pay on the debt
    run up in the 12 years of the Republican Presidencies before me; that we
    have made college loans more available and more affordable, and they
    tried to cut back on it; that the crime rate has come down under our
    strategy, and they opposed it. They don't have to talk about those
    things, but I'm going to talk about what is right for the American
    people.
        The American people will make their judgments about--and probably
    already have made their judgments about that. And I do not intend to
    respond in kind. I'm going to keep saying what I said before: I like
    Senator Dole. I've had a good relationship with him. I honor the 35
    years he gave this country in Congress, and I respect him for the way he
    fought back from his injury in the war. And I just don't think that it's
    good for America, and I'm going to try to make this election about big
    things that touch the people we just saw on the side of the road there.
        Ms. Soren. Or little things that touch them, too.

    [[Page 1428]]

        The President. And the little things that touch them.
        Ms. Soren. You captured the imagination of young people in 1992,
    along with their votes. I saw young people at the MTV Inaugural Ball
    weeping when you arrived. Maybe their expectations were too high, but
    even with national service and all your educational programs, a lot of
    them feel just as disconnected today as they did 4 years ago. Do you
    feel like you've let people down? Have you not gotten your message out
    as clearly as you could have?
        The President. Well, I think the campaign will help. But all I can
    say is----
        Ms. Soren. Were their expectations too high?
        The President. I don't know, because I don't know what their
    expectations were. I want them to be high. But if you look at what
    happened on this train trip, that was my first real--I don't think polls
    can tell you these things. I don't think you can poll this. But when we
    were out there, and on this train trip we stopped--most of our rallies
    were in very small towns. We only had 2 stops where there were fewer
    than 10,000 people there. There were more than 150,000 total people who
    came to our rallies in those 3 days on the train. And then there were
    hundreds and hundreds of people, place after place after place, just on
    the side of the road as we were going. We had 30,000 in Cape Girardeau,
    Missouri, today, our first bus stop.
        I think people do feel connected. Look, I think they feel like
    they're part of something bigger than themselves. I think they think the
    country is moving again. I do believe in the first 2 years that--one of
    the things that I've learned over many years is that there is a time lag
    between when a President or a Governor or a Congress takes an action and
    when it can be felt in the lives of the American people. So that we saw
    real economic growth coming from 1993 on, but there was no evidence
    until really about 8 months ago that the American people were beginning
    to feel it in their own lives, when paychecks finally started to go up
    again, when people saw that there were enough new jobs to make a
    difference in the local economy.
        It's the same thing with education. Now we're beginning--we've got a
    critical mass of young people who have been either in national service
    or even many, many more are getting the new college loans, the direct
    loans that they can pay back as a percentage of their income. We've
    reduced the welfare rolls by enough now that people are beginning to
    perceive it. The crime rate has come down now 4 years in a row so that
    people are finally beginning to perceive it. Their streets are safer,
    even though the crime rate in America is far too high still.
        I think that's a part of it. And so I think that my obligation is to
    go back to the young people of America and say, here's what I said I'd
    do 4 years ago; here's what we've done; here's what we're going to do in
    the next 4 years. And that's a lot of what we tried to do at our
    convention.

    Campaign Financing

        Ms. Soren. Young people are alienated from politics. Young people
    think politics is rigged by money, and they're right. Democrats received
    tens of millions of dollars in corporate contributions. What are those
    corporations getting for their money?
        The President. Well, I think it's fair to say that most of the
    corporations that contribute to either party agree with their policies.
    But keep in mind, almost all the wealthy individuals and some of the
    corporations that contributed to the Democratic Party are doing so even
    though their tax bills went up, because only the top 1.2 percent of
    individuals and corporations with incomes over $10 million a year had an
    income tax increase under our tax bill. And a lot of them supported us
    anyway, first of all because they knew I was right, that to get the
    deficit down, get interest rates down--they'd all do better with a
    healthier economy. I don't believe that any of them have supported me
    for some sort of bad or unseemly reason.
        On the other hand, I think it would be better if we had a campaign
    finance reform system that would enable people in public life to spend
    less time raising money and to be less dependent on it. But the only way
    you can do it is to give greater access to the airwaves, to candidates
    or parties, because it just costs so much to communicate.
        Ms. Soren. So it's our fault. [Laughter]
        The President. No, no, it's not your fault. No, no, I don't mean it
    that way.
        Ms. Soren. I'm just kidding.
        The President. Look, here's a country with a $1.5 trillion budget,
    an annual income of over $6 trillion. So you talk about a party raising
    and spending $150 million in a year and a half for an election, it
    sounds like a lot of money.

    [[Page 1429]]

    Against that, it doesn't sound like so much money. It just costs a lot
    of money to communicate. The communications costs--not just on
    television--radio, print, mail, travel, it's very high.
        Ms. Soren. Right. Do you think--so corporations aren't getting
    access? I read a report that they get to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom
    once in a while, CEO's or----
        The President. Well, the people who sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom are
    people I personally invite, who have been my friends, and a lot of them
    have supported me. But I don't think any President has made a habit of
    inviting his opponents to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom. I mean, I think
    you normally invite your supporters.
        Ms. Soren. Sure.
        The President. But I can say this: There's never been any attempt to
    raise any money with the promise that you can spend the night in the
    Lincoln Bedroom. I have invited people who have been helpful to me to
    spend the night in the Lincoln Bedroom, but it was never a quid pro quo
    there.

    Politics and Personal Attacks

        Ms. Soren. No, I'm not trying to imply that.
        You're doing really well in the polls, but there's a certain
    percentage of people who not only don't support you but they seem to
    actively dislike you. Why do some people dislike you so much? Nobody
    is----
        The President. Well, I think--there's a sign on the side of your
    bus; it's a quote of Bill Cosby's that I just love. He says, ``I don't
    know the secret of success. But I know the secret of failure is trying
    to please everybody.'' And I have always believed that in public life,
    when you were given an office, you should outline the major challenges
    and go after them and really try to get something done. And you should
    enlist the energies of people and try to bring them together and do it.
        And I have always had a certain core of people who have opposed me.
    When I was Governor of my State, I got elected five times and would
    regularly get nearly two-thirds of the vote. There would always be a
    core of people who were intensely opposed to my policies.
        Ms. Soren. But people didn't necessarily like Reagan's policies,
    either, but it didn't seem to get as personal. Do you think it has to do
    with your generation?
        The President. Perhaps. And it may be--well, I just don't know. I
    don't know. It may have more to do with the comparative tactics of the
    two parties. I have no idea. It may have more to do with the way people
    are talked about now.
        One of the reasons I have tried so hard--especially since the
    Oklahoma City bombing, which I say had a profound impact on our country
    and on me--I have really tried hard to bring a sense of civility and
    decency back into public discourse. I went back and read some of my own
    speeches in '92, and while they're not rough at all by the standards of
    today, I thought, well, I want to elevate what I'm saying and how I'm
    saying it a little more now.
        I just think that politics has always been a rough-and-tumble
    business, and people have always disagreed. And if you go back to the
    early 1800's, for example, it's a period of real tumult in our country,
    what was said and done and how much people had it pretty rough. I mean,
    when Thomas Jefferson was elected President, the John Adams party--
    because Mr. Adams was trying to hold onto the Presidency--said that he
    would kill religion in America, he would end godliness among the
    American people. So we've always had some of this, but I think we need
    to resist it.
        Ms. Soren. I remember a very proud group of your inner circle of
    friends at the convention 4 years ago walking around boasting FOB pins.
    How does it make you feel that bad things have happened to those who
    have helped you get where you are today: Jim Guy Tucker, Vince Foster,
    Webb Hubbell, even the First Lady?
        The President. Well, I feel very badly, obviously, about Vince
    Foster because he was my longtime friend, and it's always tragic when
    someone commits suicide. And I do feel that a lot of people were
    targeted just because they were from Arkansas. Governor Tucker, for
    example, had--he was my Lieutenant Governor, we had been friends for a
    long time, but he'd never been part of my political life. But he was
    targeted, and I feel badly about that. And the country is going to have
    to evaluate, when this whole thing is over and there will be time for a
    fair accounting, whether they think it was the right thing to do. And I
    feel very badly about Hillary and a lot of her staff have been subject
    to, because it was just pure naked politics from the get-go.

    [[Page 1430]]

        But that's what I'm talking about. That's sort of the way of the
    cycle. It's the cost of doing business in Washington. I mean, the
    people----
        Ms. Soren. Was that a surprise to you, that it was as harsh as it
    was?
        The President. Well, it's just gotten worse and worse. It's been
    deteriorating over time. Yes, it surprised me that you could be
    exonerated from one thing after another and it would never be noticed
    and then just another set of charges just to keep these going. That
    bothered me.
        But you know, the thing I think is important that I'd ask the
    American people to look at is that all these folks in our administration
    sustained all these hits, and we kept producing for the American people.
    We said, we can't control this, we can't do anything about it; all we
    can do is get up tomorrow and try to do our job. Why did we come here?
    We came here to help move the country forward and bring the country
    together, and that's what we're going to do. And our convention showed
    how productive our administration had been and our country had been in
    the last 4 years. And I think the fact that we could do it while having
    people like Senator D'Amato on us day-in and day-out I think is a
    tribute to the character and the public devotion of the people in this
    administration. I'm proud of them.
        Ms. Soren. That's what I wanted to ask you. If you can just--try to
    take this in the way that I mean it, but you've suffered incessant
    character assassination over the past 4 years. Your family has been
    maligned. You get up, there's another funeral; you've probably only had
    a couple hours of sleep that night. Between the funeral, a scandal,
    another country maybe going to war, why do you want 4 more years? I
    mean, what are you thinking?
        The President. Well, first of all, there's been a lot more good than
    bad.
        Ms. Soren. Really?
        The President. Oh, yes. It is the most rewarding thing in the world
    for a citizen of our country, who loves our country and believes in the
    promise of its people, to be President. To look back on the last 4 years
    and to go out here as I did on the train ride or on this bus trip, and
    you look into the eyes of people and you go through these crowds, and
    somebody will say, ``I've got a home because of one of your programs'';
    ``I've gotten a job since you were here''; ``I'm on one of your college
    loans''; ``I'm an AmeriCorps student''--when you see how the country is
    changing for the better, it's immensely rewarding.
        And in this day and time--you know, as I said, we've had periods
    like this in our politics before. In the early 1800's, Mr. Jefferson
    faced many of the same things. When you live in a time which is really
    rough, with no holds barred, and a lot of people seek personal advantage
    by what I call the politics of destruction, you have to be always,
    always, always defining yourself and the quality of your life by what is
    inside. And you can't confuse who you are and the quality of your own
    life with whatever is going on in the day-to-day headlines. It's
    destructive. Otherwise, you shrivel and become little.
        The President should always be trying to be bigger than he is and
    lifting the country up. And you just have to keep putting that out of
    your mind; you just have to let it go. I can't do anything about
    anything that happened yesterday or even an hour ago; you just have to
    let that stuff go and keep trying to lift the country up.
        Ms. Soren. Well, thank you very much.
        The President. Thank you.

    Note: The interview began at 6:12 p.m. aboard the MTV Choose or Lose
    bus. In his remarks, the President referred to Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey,
    USA (Ret.), Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy; actor
    Christopher Reeve; comedian Bill Cosby; and Jim Guy Tucker, former
    Arkansas Governor. A tape was not available for verification of the
    content of this interview.