    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1996, Book II)]
    [October 16, 1996]
    [Pages 1837-1857]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Presidential Debate in San Diego
    October 16, 1996

        Jim Lehrer. Good evening from the Shiley Theatre at the University
    of San Diego, San Diego, California. I'm Jim Lehrer of the ``NewsHour''
    on PBS. Welcome to this second 1996 Presidential debate between Senator
    Bob Dole, the Republican nominee, and President Bill Clinton, the
    Democratic nominee. It is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential
    Debates.
        We will follow a townhall-type format tonight. The questions over
    the next 90 minutes will come from 113 citizens of the greater San Diego
    area. They were chosen in the past week by the Gallup organization to
    represent a rough cross-section of voters as to political views, age,
    gender, and other factors. Each said he or she is undecided about this
    Presidential race.
        They were told to come tonight with questions. Nobody from the
    Debate Commission or the two campaigns has any idea what those questions
    are; neither do I. We will all be hearing them for the first time at the
    same time. I met with this group 3 hours ago, and we spoke only about
    how it was going to work tonight. They are sitting in five sections. I
    will call on individuals at random, moving from one section to another
    with each new question, alternating the questions between the two
    candidates. My job is to keep things fair and the subjects as clear and
    as varied as possible.
        The rules, drawn by the campaigns, are basically the same as they
    were for the Hartford and St. Petersburg debates: 90-second answers, 60-
    second rebuttals, 30-second responses for each question. The candidates
    are not allowed to question each other directly. There will be 2-minute
    opening and closing statements. The order for this evening was set by
    coin toss.
        We begin now with Senator Dole and his opening statement.
        Senator Dole.

    Opening Statements

        Senator Bob Dole. Thank you very much, Jim.
        Let me first give you a sports update: the Braves, one; Cardinals,
    nothing--early on.
        I want to thank you and I want to thank everybody here tonight, and
    I want a special thanks to my wife, Elizabeth, and my daughter, Robin,
    for their love and support, and thank the people who are listening and
    watching all over America.
        In 20 days, you will help decide who will lead this country into the
    next century. It's an awesome responsibility. And you must ask yourself,
    do you know enough about the candidates? You should know as much as
    possible about each of us. Sometimes the views have been distorted--and
    millions and millions of dollars in negative advertising spent
    distorting my views--but I hope tonight you'll get a better feel of who
    Bob Dole is and what he's all about.
        And I think first you should--I should understand that the question
    on your mind is, do I understand your problem? But I understand it if--
    it occurred to me and I might just say that I'm from a large family.
    I've got lots of relatives, and they're good, average, middle class,
    hard-working Americans. They live all across the country. They're not
    all Republicans--maybe all but one. [Laughter]
        But in any event, I understand the problems, whether it's two
    parents working because one has to pay the taxes and one has to provide
    for the family; whether it's a single parent who just barely pays the
    pressing bills; or whether you're worried about an education for your
    children--are they going to the best schools; or whether you're worried
    about safe playgrounds, drug-free schools, crime-free schools.
        This is what this election is all about. And hopefully tonight when
    we conclude this debate, you will have a better understanding and the
    viewing and listening audience will have a better understanding. Thank
    you. [Applause]
        Mr. Lehrer. Mr. President, 2 minutes, opening statement.

    [[Page 1838]]

        The President. I was going to applaud, too. [Laughter]
        Well, thank you, Jim, and thanks to the people of San Diego for
    giving us this opportunity to have another discussion about the decision
    we all face in front of people who will make the decision. Again I will
    say, I'll do my best to make this a discussion of ideas and issues, not
    insults. What really matters is what happens to your future and what
    happens to our country as we stand on the brink of a new century, a time
    of extraordinary possibility.
        I have a simple philosophy that I've tried to follow for the last 4
    years: Do what creates opportunity for all, what reinforces
    responsibility from all of us, and what will help us build a community
    where everybody's got a role to play and a place at the table.
        Compared to 4 years ago, we're clearly better off. We've got 10\1/2\
    million more jobs; the deficit's been reduced by 60 percent; incomes are
    rising for the first time in a decade; the crime rates, the welfare
    rolls are falling; we're putting 100,000 more police on the street;
    60,000 felons, fugitives, and stalkers have been denied handguns.
        But that progress is only the beginning. What we really should focus
    on tonight is what we still have to do to help the American people make
    the most of this future that's out there. I think what really matters is
    what we can do to help build strong families. Strong families need a
    strong economy. To me, that means we have to go on and balance this
    budget while we protect Medicare and Medicaid and education and the
    environment.
        We should give a tax cut targeted to childrearing and education, to
    buying a first home and paying for health care. We ought to help protect
    our kids from drugs and guns and gangs and tobacco. We ought to help
    move a million people from welfare to work. And we ought to create the
    finest education system in the world, where every 18-year-old can go on
    to college and all of our younger children have great educational
    opportunities. If we do those things, we can build that bridge to the
    21st century. That's what I hope to get to talk about tonight.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, let's go now to the first question from this
    section, and it's for Senator Dole.
        Yes, ma'am? Yes?
        Q. Hello, Senator Dole.
        Senator Dole. Hi.

    Leadership To Promote Unity

        Q. My name is Shannon MacAfee. I'm a beginning educator in this
    country, and I really think it's important what children have to say.
    They're still very idealistic, and everything they say comes from the
    heart. I have a quote for you from ``If I Were President,'' compiled by
    Peggy Gavin. A sixth grader says, ``If I were President, I would think
    about Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and what they did to make
    our country great. We should unite the white and black people and people
    of all cultures. Democrats and Republicans should unite also. We should
    all come together and think of the best ways to solve the economic
    problems of our country. I believe that when we are able to come
    together and stop fighting amongst ourselves, we will get along a lot
    better.''
        These are the ideals and morals that we are trying to teach our
    children in these days, yet we don't seem to be practicing them in our
    Government, in anything. If you are President, how will you begin to
    practice what we are preaching to our children, the future of our
    Nation?
        Senator Dole. Well, I would say, first of all, I think it's a very
    good question, and I appreciate the quote from the young man.
        There's no doubt about it that many American people have lost their
    faith in government. They see scandals almost on a daily basis. They see
    ethical problems in the White House today. They see 900 FBI files of
    private persons being gathered up by somebody in the White House; nobody
    knows who hired this man. So there's a great deal of cynicism out there.
        But I've always tried, in whatever I've done, to bring people
    together. I said in my acceptance speech in San Diego about 2 months ago
    that the exits are clearly marked. If you think the Republican Party is
    someplace for you to come if you're narrow-minded or bigoted or don't
    like certain people in America, the exits are clearly marked for you to
    walk out of, as I stand here without compromise because this is the
    party of Lincoln.
        I think we have a real obligation, obviously, public officials. I'm
    no longer a public official; I left public life on June 11th of this
    year. But it is very important. Young people are looking to us. They're
    looking to us for leadership.

    [[Page 1839]]

    They're watching what we do, what we say, what we promise, and what we
    finally deliver. And I would think--it seems to me that there are
    opportunities here. When I'm President of the United States, I will keep
    my word. My word is my bond.
        Mr. Lehrer. Mr. President?
        The President. One of the reasons that I ran for President, Sandy,
    is because not just children, a lot of grownups felt that way. If you
    remember, 4 years ago we had not only rising unemployment but a lot of
    rising cynicism. I'd never worked in Washington as an elected official.
    It seemed to me that most of the arguments were partisan: Republican,
    Democrat; left, right; liberal, conservative. That's why I said tonight
    I'm for opportunity, responsibility, and community. And we've gotten
    some real progress in the last 4 years. I've also done everything I
    could at every moment of division in this country--after Oklahoma City,
    when these churches were burned--to bring people together and remind
    people that we are stronger because of our diversity. We have to respect
    one another.
        You mentioned Washington and Lincoln; they were Presidents at
    historic times. This is an historic time. It's important that we go
    beyond those old partisan arguments and focus on people and their
    future. When we do that, instead of shutting the Government down over a
    partisan fight on the budget, we're a better country, and that's why
    we're making progress now.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator?
        Senator Dole. Well, bringing people together again is obviously a
    responsibility we all have. I know you do it. Everybody here does it.
    You do a lot of things nobody knows about. I have a little foundation
    for the disabled called the Dole Foundation. We've raised about $10
    million. We don't talk about it. We try to help people with
    disabilities. We bring them back into the mainstream of public life.
        So it seems to me that there's also a public trust. When you're the
    President of the United States, you have a public trust, and you have to
    keep that public trust, as George Washington did and as Abraham Lincoln
    did. And I think now that trust is being violated. And it seems to me we
    ought to face up to it, and the President ought to say tonight that he's
    not going to pardon anybody that he was involved in business with who
    might implicate him later on.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, the next question from this section right
    here. Right there in the middle, sir. Yes, sir?

    Health Care

        Q. Dr. Robert Berkeley; I'm a cardiologist from Fallbrook,
    California. Mr. President, I'd like to know if you'd please explain your
    plans for--in a substantive fashion, for addressing the problems with
    the health care system in our country.
        The President. I will. First of all, let me say what we have done:
    In the last 4 years, we've worked hard to promote more competition to
    bring down the rate of inflation in health care costs without eroding
    health care quality. The Government pays for Medicare and Medicaid, as
    you know, and that's very important.
        Secondly, we've added a million more children to the ranks of the
    insured through the Medicaid program. We have protected 25 million
    people through the passage of the Kennedy-Kassebaum bill that says you
    can't lose your health insurance if you change jobs or if someone in
    your family's been sick. We just recently ended those drive-by
    deliveries, saying people couldn't be kicked out of the hospital by
    insurance companies when they'd just had babies. So this is--that's a
    good start.
        In the next 4 years, I want to focus on the following things: Number
    one, add another million children to the insured ranks through the
    Medicaid program; number two, keep working with the States, as we are
    now, to add 2.2 million more people to the insurance system; number
    three, cover people who are between jobs for up to 6 months--that could
    protect 3 million families, 700,000 kids; and number four, make sure we
    protect the integrity of the Medicare program and the Medicaid program
    and not do anything in cutting costs which would cause hundreds of
    hospitals to close, as could have been the case if the $270 billion
    Medicare cut that I vetoed had been enacted into law.
        Senator Dole. First, let me say there you go again, Mr. President,
    talking about a Medicare cut. Now, I've heard you say this time after
    time, and I've heard you say on one TV appearance, ``The media made me
    do it.'' You were trying to defend your cut, which was not a cut
    either--a reduction in the growth of spending. And we always had at
    least 7 percent. You've said publicly that it's now 3 times the rate of
    inflation, we ought to cut the growth to twice

    [[Page 1840]]

    the rate of inflation. That's about where we are now. So let's stop
    talking about cutting Medicare. In my economic plan we increase it 39
    percent.
        Don't forget what he tried to do with health care: 17 new taxes,
    spend $1.5 trillion, 50 new bureaucracies. Can you believe that? You
    couldn't even have been a cardiologist because they had quotas. You
    had--you couldn't--you're a cardiologist; it wouldn't affect you. But if
    somebody wanted to be a cardiologist 10 years from now, you'd have to be
    certain that you complied with some of the rules in this extreme medical
    plan the Government was going to take over for all Americans. There are
    things we can do like the Kassebaum bill, that retains many provisions I
    authored, to cover preexisting--existing--portability. And there are
    other things we can do. We still need to cover about 20 million people
    and a lot of children.
        The President.  I don't have time in 30 seconds to respond to fix
    all that. But let me just say, the American Hospital Association said
    that the budget I vetoed could have closed 700 hospitals, not me. And on
    a per-person basis, it did cut way below the rate of inflation in
    medical costs.
        But the important thing is, what are we going to do now? We need to
    help people who are between jobs. We need to cover more kids. We need to
    provide more preventive care. My balanced budget covers mammograms for
    ladies on--women on Medicare and also gives respite care to the million-
    plus families who have someone with Alzheimer's. These things are paid
    for in the balanced budget plan. It will move us forward.
        Mr. Lehrer. The next question is for Senator Dole from here. Yes,
    sir?

    Armed Forces

        Q. Senator Dole, my name is Jason Milligan, active-duty military and
    a small-business owner. And my question is, what is your position on
    closing the gap between military and civilian pay scales?
        Senator Dole. Jason, I appreciate that very much, being a former
    military man myself.
        You know, we have 17,000 men and women today wearing our uniform
    that receive food stamps. It shouldn't happen in America. We have men
    and women wearing our uniform in substandard housing. It shouldn't
    happen in America. And it's time we take a look at the pay scales. You
    did get a 3 percent increase this year, but that's not enough.
        If we're going to ask young men and young women to protect us and
    defend us around the world, and we've had more deployments under this
    administration than any time in history--50 times we deployed troops
    around the world. Every time you do that, you take a risk--somebody you
    know, maybe your son, maybe your grandson, maybe somebody else. But I
    think anybody who wears a uniform is a great American. Remember Vietnam,
    remember when people almost used to walk across the street rather than
    have contact with somebody who was in Vietnam--that's all behind us now,
    and it should be behind us--and the forgotten war, the Korean war. But I
    guess, I can just answer you very plainly, Jason: Thank you for doing
    what you're doing. America owes you a debt of gratitude.
        The President. May I ask you a question? What kind of--which service
    are you in?
        Q. I'm in the United States Navy, sir.
        The President. And what kind of small business do you have?
        Q. I have an Amway business.
        The President. Good for you. Well, let me say--Senator Dole
    mentioned this. I just signed a bill that we got through Congress to
    increase the amount of pay increase we could give for military personnel
    and to make sure the pay increase this year was above the rate of
    inflation. I also had presented to the Congress, and they adopted, a
    large package of quality-of-life improvements which are very important.
    I've spent a lot of time talking to military families, as well as
    military members, all over the world and in bases all across the United
    States. And I became convinced, after talking to the families and the
    personnel in uniform, that we needed to not only have the pay raise but
    we needed to invest more in child care, housing, and other things to
    support families, especially when there are longer deployments because
    of the downsizing of the military.
        So we're going to do better, and we'll do better still. But this is
    a commitment I think that all Americans share, without regard to party.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole?
        Senator Dole. Well, Jason, I don't disagree with anything the
    President said except he waited 4 years to do these things. And my view
    is it ought to be--it'll be done on day one.

    [[Page 1841]]

    We'll start working on it on day one in the Dole-Kemp administration.
    This is important. Now, we only have 10 divisions now; we used to have
    18. We had 25 fighter wings; we're down to 13. We had 536 ships; we're
    down to 336 ships. I mean, we've cut defense spending too much in the
    first place. The President told you in '92 he would cut it $67 billion;
    he cut $112 billion. So we're right on the edge right now. But the last
    thing we ought to do is make those who wear the uniform sacrifice.
        Mr. Lehrer. Next question here for President Clinton. Yes, ma'am,
    here on the front row.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Q. President Clinton, my name is Cecily Kelly. Yesterday Yasser
    Arafat said in Palestine that he thinks the key to success in the Middle
    East is the commitment of Americans. Would you, as President, send
    American troops to Israel or the West Bank as peacekeepers?
        The President. Let me just take 2 seconds of my time, because I'm
    the Commander in Chief, to respond to one thing that was said. I propose
    to spend $1.6 trillion on defense between now and the year 2002. And
    there's less than one percent difference between my budget and the
    Republican budget on defense.
        Now, on the Middle East, as you know, I've worked very hard for
    peace in the Middle East. The agreement between the Palestinians and the
    Israelis was signed at the White House. And the agreement, the peace
    treaty with Jordan, I went to Jordan to sign that, to be there. But--and
    I think the United States could do whatever we reasonably can.
        I can say this: I do not believe Yasser Arafat wants us to send
    troops to the West Bank. We have never been asked to send troops to the
    West Bank.
        I saw the agreement that Prime Minister Rabin and Yasser Arafat
    signed on the West Bank. It had 26 separate maps they had to sign,
    literally thousands of delineations of who would do what on the West
    Bank. And I believe if the parties will get together and in a good faith
    manner make that agreement, that they'll be able to do it. We cannot
    impose a peace on the Middle East.
        My position has always been that the job of the United States was to
    minimize the risks of peace. You know, if they ask me to be part of some
    monitoring force--as we are in the Sinai and have been since 1978 to
    monitor the peace between Egypt and Israel--frankly, I would have to
    think about it; I would have to see what they wanted to do. But I don't
    believe that will be the request. I think what Mr. Arafat wants us to do
    is to make sure that everybody honors the agreements they've already
    made. That's why I brought the leaders to Washington a few days ago. I
    think they will, and I think we'll get there. Don't be too discouraged.
        Senator Dole. Well, let me, Jason, come back to you a minute because
    there is a big difference in the defense budget. We had $7 billion this
    year, and $10 billion more than the President. He puts his money in the
    out years--even if he were reelected, you know, he'd be gone before
    anything happened. And nothing's going to happen, because we don't have
    modernization now. If we don't build more B-2 bombers in California--and
    we lost about 500,000 jobs out in California because of this
    devastation, these big, big cuts. We had to make cuts; we didn't have to
    make the cuts the President promised he'd make and then he doubled. And
    so I think we need to go back and take a look. We're increasing defense
    reasonably, not too much but we are increasing defense some, because we
    want to be prepared in case somebody here gets called up, Jason.
        I would say I didn't hear what Yasser Arafat had to say, but I don't
    want to--you know, I think foreign policy is something we want to be
    very careful about. And I'm not here to argue about the President on
    some ongoing foreign policy matter. What I want the President to do, and
    I think he may have done it in his last statement, is call for an
    unconditional end to the violence and have the parties keep on talking
    as they should talk and have a resolution. The last thing we want to do
    is commit more forces anywhere.
        But let's sort of keep this out of politics, because it's pretty
    dicey right now.
        The President. When the change of government occurred in Israel, the
    people of Israel were saying, ``We don't want to abandon the peace
    process. We want more security.'' Then, a lot of mutual distrust
    developed. A lot of things happened which maybe shouldn't have happened.
        When I asked Yasser Arafat and Prime Minister Netanyahu to come to
    Washington and got them together and they talked alone for 3 hours, I
    was convinced that they had to have a chance to make that peace. Again,
    I'd say if they ask

    [[Page 1842]]

    us to play some reasonable role, I don't know how I would respond. It
    would depend entirely on what they ask us to do. But the real secret
    there is for them to abide by the agreements they've made and find a way
    to trust each other. And they're going to have to spend some time and
    trust each other.
        Prime Minister Rabin gave his life believing that that trust could
    be materialized, and I still think it can be.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, next question from this section, and it is
    for Senator Dole. Back in the back. Yes, sir, right there. Yes, sir.

    Tobacco

        Q. Senator Dole, Oscar Delgado.
        Senator Dole. Oscar.
        Q. Ex-smoker for 30 years. About 30 years ago I was a pack-plus-a-
    day man, okay? You mentioned in a statement, you said some time ago that
    you didn't think nicotine was addictive. Would you care to--you still
    hold to that statement, or do you wish to recant or explain yourself?
        Senator Dole. Oh, that--that's very easy. My record going back to
    1965 in the Congress, the first vote we had was whether or not you
    should put a little notice on cigarettes that they may be dangerous--I
    voted--I voted for everything since that time.
        In fact, in 1992 we had a bill come before us that all the States
    had to comply or they're going to lose certain money. We sent it to the
    Clinton administration for implementation. They waited 3\1/2\ years. And
    during that period about 3,000 young kids every day started smoking. If
    you add it up, that's about 3 million--not until again 1996.
        I don't want anybody to smoke. My brother probably died partly
    because of cigarettes. I was asked a technical question: Are they
    addictive? Maybe they--they probably are addictive. I don't know; I'm
    not a doctor. You shouldn't smoke. You ought to be glad you quit,
    Oscar--30 years?
        Q. Yes.
        Senator Dole. And it seems to me that what we need to do is to talk
    about not only tobacco but drugs, because drug use in 12- and 17-year-
    olds has doubled in this administration, the last 44 months. Marijuana
    use is up 141 percent; cocaine use, up 160 percent. They're your kids.
    It's all happened in this administration because they cut funding and
    they cut interdiction.
        When I'm President of the United States, we're going to use the
    National Guard and whatever resources we need to stop some of the drugs
    coming into America. If you stop the drugs, nobody is going to use the
    drugs. So don't smoke, don't drink, don't use drugs. Just don't do it.
        The President. Oscar, the question of what the Federal Government
    should do to limit the access of tobacco to young people is one of the
    biggest differences between Senator Dole and me.
        We did propose a regulation 6 months after I became President under
    the law he mentioned. It simply says all these States--it made it
    illegal for kids to smoke--now they have to try harder if they want to
    keep getting Federal funds. Then we took comments, as we always do, and
    there were tens of thousands of comments about how we ought to do it.
    That's what drug it out.
        Meanwhile, we started, also in '93, to look into whether cigarettes
    were addictive enough for the Federal Food and Drug Administration to
    ban the ability of cigarette companies to advertise, market, and
    distribute tobacco products to our kids. No President had ever taken on
    the tobacco lobby before. I did. Senator Dole opposed me. He went down
    and made a speech to people who were on his side, saying that I did the
    wrong thing. I think I did the right thing.
        On drugs, I have repeatedly said drugs are wrong and illegal and can
    kill you. We have strengthened enforcement, and everybody in San Diego
    knows we've strengthened control of the border. We've done a lot more; I
    hope we get a chance to talk about it.
        Senator Dole. Well, they also know, if they live in San Diego, Mr.
    President, if you're caught with 125 pounds of marijuana or less, you go
    back to Mexico; you're not prosecuted. You have a U.S. Attorney here
    that sends them back home. So I think that's pretty important. That's a
    lot of marijuana. That's a big supply.
        But don't--you know, don't get into this smokescreen here, Oscar.
    The President, in the election year, decided, ``Well, I ought to do
    something. I haven't done anything on drugs. I've been AWOL for 44
    months. So let's take on smoking.''
        But see, they haven't even done it. They haven't said what's going
    to happen, whether they're going to have it declared addictive; it's

    [[Page 1843]]

    going to apply just to--once it's a drug, does it apply only to
    teenagers or to everybody in America?
        Nobody should smoke, young or old. But particularly, young people
    should not smoke. And my record is there. It's been there. I've voted 8,
    10 times since 1965.
        Mr. Lehrer. The next question is for President Clinton, and it comes
    from right here. Yes, sir?

    Social Security and Medicare

        Q. President Clinton, my name is Jack Fleck. I'm a retired Air Force
    pilot. Sir, it's officially forecast that our annual Medicare and Social
    Security deficits are measured in the trillions of dollars next century.
    Depending upon who you listen to, Social Security will be bankrupt in
    either 2025 or 2030. I feel this is grossly unfair, especially to our
    younger generations, who are losing faith in the system.
        My question is this: Assuming you agree that our entitlement
    programs are on an unsustainable course, what specific reforms do you
    propose?
        The President. First of all, they're two different things. Social
    Security and Medicare are entirely different in terms of the financial
    stabilities. Let's talk about them separately.
        Social Security is stable until, as you pointed out, at least the
    third decade of the next century. But we'd like to have a Social
    Security fund that has about 70 years of life instead of about 30 years
    of life.
        What we have to do is simply to make some adjustments that take
    account of the fact that the baby boomers, people like me, are bigger in
    number than the people that went just before us and the people that come
    just after us. And I think what we'll plainly do is what we did in 1983,
    when Senator Dole served--and this is something I think he did a good
    job on--when he served on the Social Security Commission and they made
    some modest changes in Social Security to make sure that it would be
    alive and well into the 21st century. And we will do that. It's obvious
    that there are certain things that have to be done, and there are 50 to
    60 different options. And a bipartisan commission, to take it out of
    politics, will make recommendations and build support for the people.
        Medicare is different. Medicare needs help now. I have proposed a
    budget which would put 10 years on the life of the Medicare Trust Fund;
    that's more than it's had a lot of the time for the last 20 years.
        It would save a lot of money through more managed care but giving
    more options, more preventive care, and lowering the inflation rate in
    the prices we're paying providers without having the kind of big premium
    increases and out-of-pocket costs that the budget I vetoed would
    provide. Then that will give us 10 years to do with Medicare what we're
    going to do with Social Security: have a bipartisan group look at what
    we have to do to save it when the baby boomers retire. But now we ought
    to pass this budget now and put 10 years on it right away so no one has
    to worry about it.
        Senator Dole. Well, again, you know, if you're somebody thinking
    about the future, I think it's fair to say that it'll be--we'll work it
    out. I mean, this is a political year, and the President's playing
    politics with Medicare. But after this year's over we'll resolve it just
    as we did with Social Security in 1983. It was a nonpartisan commission.
    Ronald Reagan got together with Tip O'Neill and Howard Baker--two
    Republicans and one Democrat--and they formed a commission. I was on
    that commission. We resolved--we rescued Social Security. We suggested--
    I think it's been over a year ago now--we do the same with Medicare, and
    the White House called it a gimmick. Now last week, I guess it was,
    Donna Shalala said, ``Well, we'll cut Medicare a hundred billion, and
    we'll appoint a commission.''
        It will probably have to be done by a commission. Take it out of
    politics. I think if I were a senior citizen I'd be a little fed up with
    all these ads scaring seniors, scaring veterans, and scaring students
    about education. But when you don't have any ideas, when you don't have
    any agenda, and all you have is fear, that's all you can use. We have
    ideas in the Dole-Kemp campaign, and we'll rescue Medicare as we did
    Social Security.
        The President. Their idea was to have the poorest seniors in the
    country pay $270 more a year this year. Their idea was to budget--that
    the American Hospital Association said could close 700 hospitals. Their
    idea was to charge everybody more out-of-pocket costs in their budget
    that I vetoed--not in an election year, sir, I told them in early '95.
        Senator Dole said 30 years ago he was one of 12 people that voted
    against Medicare and he was proud of it. A year ago he said, ``I

    [[Page 1844]]

    was right then; I knew it wouldn't work.'' American seniors have the
    highest life expectancy in the world. We need to reform it, not wreck
    it.
        Mr. Lehrer. Next question from here, and it's for Senator Dole. Yes,
    ma'am, right here.
        Q. Me?
        Mr. Lehrer. Yes.

    Welfare Reform

        Q. Senator Dole, my name is Suzanne Gonzalez, and I would like to
    know what you are--what would be your first step in reforming welfare.
        Senator Dole. Well, we've taken the first step. We took it three
    steps. Twice we sent welfare reform to the President, and he vetoed it.
    On the third time we sent welfare reform to the President, he signed it
    but announced he would change it next year. And the Vice President said
    they were going to do something else through the line item veto, which
    I've never understood, but that's sort of inside baseball.
        What we need to do is make certain we try to return people to work.
    And I'm standing here as someone who a long time ago--as the county
    attorney in Russell, Kansas, one of our jobs every month was to go
    through all the welfare checks and sign them. And three of those checks
    were my grandparents'. So I know what it's like to have to look welfare
    head-on.
        Obviously some people are going to need help. This is the United
    States of America. You're not going to go without food, and you're not
    going to go without medical care. This is America. But at the same time,
    if you want to get off Medicare, get back in the mainstream, we're going
    to provide jobs. We're going to say you have a 5-year limit that you can
    be on welfare. You've got 2 years to look for a job. We provided more
    money for day care in the bill that passed the Senate and was vetoed.
    Then it came back, and the President signed pretty much the same bill.
        But this is an important issue. I don't think we ought to be giving
    welfare payments to illegal immigrants. I mean, it puts a heavy burden
    on a State like--except for emergencies. It puts a heavy burden on
    States like California. It costs California taxpayers $3 billion a year.
        Mr. Lehrer. President Clinton?
        Senator Dole. I'll get out of your way here.
        The President. It's illegal right now and has been for years for
    illegal immigrants to get welfare benefits.
        Let me say that this is one of the most important issues in the
    world to me. I started working on welfare reform in 1980 because I was
    sick of seeing people trapped in a system that was increasingly
    physically isolating them and making their kids more vulnerable to get
    in trouble. So I'd been working on it when I was a Governor for a long
    time.
        When I became President, I used the authority I had in this law to
    get out from under certain Federal rules to help States move people to
    work. We've reduced the welfare rolls by 2 million already. Now I've got
    a plan with this new welfare reform law to work with the private sector
    to give employers specific tax incentives to hire people off welfare and
    to do some other things which will create more jobs in the private
    sector, at least a million, to move more people from welfare to work.
    It's very important. And I hope we get a chance to talk about this more.
    There is not a more important issue.
        I still remember a woman that I met 10 years ago who said she wanted
    to get off welfare so her kids could tell--give an answer when they say,
    ``What does your mother do for a job?'' I met that woman again. She's
    got four kids. One's got a good job; one's studying to be a doctor;
    one's in technical school; one's an honor student in high school. I want
    to make more people like that woman, Lillie Harden. So I've got a plan
    to do it. And it's just beginning.
        Senator Dole. Well, another thing we can do--we talk about growth--
    we've got a great economic package which I hope we'll discuss later:
    across the board tax cut; child credits, $500 per child under 18; reduce
    the capital gains rate; create more jobs and opportunities for people on
    and off welfare.
        And we have other provisions: less litigation. The trial lawyers--
    big supporters of the President--the trial lawyers, of course they like
    lawsuits, so every time they have a bill that they want vetoed, the
    President vetoes it for them.
        We've got to understand in America that we've got to have growth,
    create more jobs and more opportunities in the private sector. The
    President takes credit for all of these people off welfare--the
    Governors did that. Federal Government doesn't do that. And the Govern-

    [[Page 1845]]

    ment doesn't create jobs, they're created in the private sector.
        Mr. Lehrer. This section, question? Yes, ma'am, on the back row.
    This is for the President.

    Capital Gains Tax

        Q. Mr. President, my name is Pamela Johnson, and I'm a landlord. My
    question is, does your party have any future plans to reduce the capital
    gains tax, especially for retired Americans?
        The President. First of all, we have a big plan to reduce the
    capital gains tax when people sell their homes. Part of my tax package,
    which is paid for in my balanced budget plan, would exempt up to half a
    million dollars in gains for people when they sell their home, which I
    think is the biggest capital gains benefit we could give to most
    ordinary Americans.
        We also have a capital gains now for people that invest in new small
    businesses and hold the investment for 5 years. It was part of our other
    economic plan. And these are things I think that will go a long way
    toward helping America build a stronger economy and a better tax system.
        I think the most important thing to emphasize, though, is that we
    also have to help people in other ways to build a stronger economy. And
    we can't have any tax cut that's not paid for. One of the big
    differences between Senator Dole and myself is that I told you how I'm
    going to pay for every penny of the tax cuts I recommend. We've worked
    hard to bring this deficit down, and that's helped people in the real
    estate business, because the interest rates are lower. We've got
    homeownership at a 15-year high. We've got this country going in the
    right direction.
        So we can have a tax cut, but my priority would be to help the
    families who need it with childrearing and education and buying a first-
    time home and helping for health care costs. So from your business,
    helping in buying the first-time home, exempting the capital gains on
    the sale of the home would be the most important things that you asked
    about. Thank you, Pamela.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole.
        Senator Dole. Well, Pamela, what the President didn't tell you is
    that all his tax cuts expire at the year 2000, but all his increases go
    on forever. That's the liberal approach. You know, give you a little tax
    cut, give you a couple of years, then make the tax increases go on
    forever. So the net tax increase in his plan is somewhere between $60
    billion and $80 billion.
        We have in the Dole-Kemp economic plan, unless your home is worth
    over $500,000--and if it is, I appreciate it, congratulate you--but in
    any event, no tax. And it's a good idea. They saw it, and they picked it
    up and put in theirs, but it's only temporary. Ours is permanent.
        Ours is a good plan: create jobs and opportunities; capital gains
    rate, cut it in half, cut it from 28 percent to 14 percent. There are $7
    trillion in assets locked up in America. If we cut the capital gains
    rate--I'm told every day--I got a letter from a former constituent in
    Kansas saying, ``I want to sell property in California, put it in my
    business in Kansas. I can't because the capital gains rate is too
    high.''
        We need to get the economy going. That will help Social Security.
    That will create more jobs. That will help people who want to get off
    welfare. It's the American way.
        The President. Before Senator Dole left the Senate, he and Mr.
    Gingrich also were recommending that we pass these tax cuts only insofar
    as we could pay for them. And we all assume that the tax cuts will be
    permanent, but we have to prove we can pay for them.
        After he left the Senate, we abandoned that. That's why most experts
    say that this tax scheme will blow a huge hole in the deficit, raise
    interest rates, and weaken the economy. And that will take away all the
    benefits of the tax cut with a weaker economy. That's why we have to
    balance the budget. And I'll tell you how I'm going to pay for anything
    I promise you, line by line. You should expect that from both of us.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right. The next question is for Senator Dole. Yes,
    ma'am, right there.

    Responding to American Youth

        Q. My name is Melissa Lydeana, and I'm a third-year student out at
    UC-San Diego. And I just want to say that it's a great honor
    representing the voices of America. My question is concerning you, Mr.
    Dole, all the controversy regarding your age. How do you feel you can
    respond to young voices of America today and tomorrow?
        Senator Dole. Well, I think age is very--you know, wisdom comes from
    age, experience, and intelligence. And if you have some of each--

    [[Page 1846]]

    and I have some age, some experience, some intelligence--[laughter]--
    that adds up to wisdom.
        I think it also is a strength; it's an advantage. And I have a lot
    of young people work in my office, work in my campaign. This is about
    America. This is about--somebody said earlier, one of the first
    questions, we're together. It's one America, one nation.
        I'm looking at our economic plan because I'm concerned about the
    future for young people. I'm looking about drugs. The President's been
    AWOL for 4 years. I'm looking about crime. He'll claim credit now for
    crime going down, but it happened because mayors and Governors and
    others have brought crime down. Rudy Giuliani, the mayor of New York,
    brought crime down 25 percent just in New York City, but of course the
    President will take credit for that.
        My view is we want to find jobs and opportunities and education.
    This year the Republican Congress, as far as student loans, went from 24
    billion to 36 billion over the next 6 years--a 50 percent increase; the
    highest appropriation ever, $6 billion for Pell grants. Very, very
    important. And we also raised the amount of each Pell grant.
        In our economic plan, the $500 child credit can be used for young
    people. Rolled over and over and over--of course, not this age, but if
    you have a child 2 years old, 7 percent interest, it would be worth
    about $18,000 by the time that child was ready for college.
        The President. I can only tell you that I don't think Senator Dole
    is too old to be President. It's the age of his ideas that I question.
        You're almost not old enough to remember this, but we've tried this
    before, promising people an election-year tax cut that's not paid for--
    --
        Senator Dole. We tried it last time you ran.
        The President. ----telling you you can have everything you got--and
    let me just say this: Did you hear him say the Congress just voted to
    increase student loans and scholarships? They did, after he left. The
    last budget he led cut Pell grants, cut student loans. I vetoed it when
    they shut the Government down.
        My plan would give students a dollar-for-dollar reduction for the
    cost of the typical community college tuition, a $10,000 deduction a
    year for the cost of college tuition, would let families save in an IRA
    and withdraw tax-free to pay for the cost of education. And it's all
    paid for.
        My whole administration is about your future, it's about what the
    21st century is going to be like for you. And I hope you'll look at the
    ideas in it.
        Thank you.
        Senator Dole. Well, when you don't have any ideas, I guess you say
    the other person's ideas are old. As I said earlier, they don't have any
    ideas. Their idea is to raise taxes and spend more money. That's the
    liberal philosophy. If that's what you like, you've got a perfect
    candidate.
        President Clinton came to California in 1992 and said, ``The
    centerpiece in my first 4 years is going to be a middle class tax cut.''
    Now, to all you who got that tax cut, congratulations, because you got a
    big tax increase. You got a $265 billion tax increase. And he stands
    here and says politicians who make promises like that ought to be
    ignored. Well, he made the promise.
        I keep my word, and you'll have a tax cut. It will help you in
    whatever you're going to do in the next few years. Thank you.
        Mr. Lehrer. Next question is for President Clinton, and it's from--
    yes, ma'am? Yes?

    Affirmative Action

        Q. Hello. My name is Chessie Sanders, and my question is do you feel
    that America has grown enough and has educated itself enough to totally
    cut out affirmative action?
        The President. No, ma'am, I don't. I am against quotas; I'm against
    giving anybody any kind of preference for something they're not
    qualified for, but because I still believe that there is some
    discrimination and that not everybody has an opportunity to prove they
    are qualified, I favor the right kind of affirmative action.
        I've done more to eliminate programs--affirmative action programs
    that I didn't think were fair and to tighten others up than my
    predecessors have since affirmative action has been around, but I have
    also worked hard to give people a chance to prove that they are
    qualified.
        Let me just give you some examples. We've doubled the number of
    loans from the Small Business Administration, tripled the number of
    loans to women business people--no one unqualified. Everybody had to
    meet the standards. We've opened 260,000 new jobs in the military to
    women since I've been President, but the Joint Chiefs say we're stronger
    and more competent and solid than ever.

    [[Page 1847]]

        Let me give you another example of what I mean. To me, affirmative
    action is making that extra effort. It's sort of like what Senator Dole
    did when he sponsored the Americans with Disabilities Act that said to
    certain stores, ``Okay, you've got to make it accessible to people with
    wheelchairs.'' We weren't guaranteeing anything--anybody anything except
    the chance to prove they were qualified, the chance to prove that they
    could do it.
        And that's why I must say I agree with General Colin Powell that
    we're not there yet. We ought to keep making those extra-effort
    affirmative action programs the law and the policy of the land.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole.
        Senator Dole. Well, we may not be there yet, but we're not going to
    get there by giving preferences and quotas. I supported that route for
    some time, and again, I think it gets back to experience--a little
    experience, a little age, a little intelligence. And I noticed that
    nobody was really benefiting except a very small group at the top. The
    average person wasn't benefiting. People who had the money were
    benefiting. People who got all the jobs were benefiting.
        It seems to me that we ought to support the California civil rights
    initiative. It ought to be not based on gender or ethnicity or color or
    disability. I'm disabled. I shouldn't have a preference. I would like to
    have one in this race, come to think of it. But I don't get one. Maybe
    we can work that out. I get a 10-point spot. [Laughter]
        This is America. No discrimination. Discrimination ought to be
    punished, but there ought to be equal opportunity. We ought to reach out
    and make certain everybody has a chance to participate. Equal
    opportunity, but we cannot guarantee equal results in America. That's
    not how America became the greatest country on the face of the Earth.
        The President. I have never supported quotas. I've always been
    against them. They don't favor equal results. But I do favor making sure
    everybody has a chance to prove they're competent. The reason I have
    opposed that initiative is because I'm afraid it will end those extra-
    effort programs.
        Again I say think of the American with Disabilities Act. Make an
    effort to put a ramp up there so someone in a wheelchair can get up. You
    don't guarantee that they get the job; you guarantee they have a chance
    to prove they're competent.
        And as I've said, this is not a partisan thing with me. General
    Powell, Colin Powell said the same thing. He fears that the initiative
    would take away the extra-effort programs. No preferences to unqualified
    people, no quotas, but don't give up on making an extra effort till
    you're sure everybody has a chance to prove they're qualified.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, the next question is for Senator Dole, and it
    comes from this section right here. The back row, there, in the blue
    shirt. Yes, sir.

    Senator Dole's Tax Cut Proposal

        Q. My name's Tim David. I'm a mechanical engineer. Senator Dole, how
    do you reduce taxes and balance the budget?
        Senator Dole. Oh, I'm glad you asked.
        The President. So am I. I am too.
        Senator Dole. What's your first name? Tim?
        I first want to say the President didn't quite give you all the
    stuff on quotas, because the Justice Department entered what we call the
    Piscataway case up in New Jersey. It's pretty clear that was a quota
    case. And just because one teacher was white and one teacher was black
    and they had the same qualification, you know, they decided who would
    stay there. It shouldn't be that way.
        Now, the President can say, well, he wants to mend it, not end it.
    There are 168 Federal programs that allow quotas. He ended one.
        Now this economic package, Tim, I'm glad you asked because you look
    like the type that might be able to benefit from the 15 percent, across-
    the-board tax cut and $500-per-child tax credit or, you know, estate tax
    relief, which you're not interested in right now, but capital gains rate
    reduction--if you're taking care of an elderly parent, you get a $1,000
    deduction. We think that's very important because a lot of people take
    care of their parents.
        How do we pay for it? We're going to have a constitutional amendment
    to balance the budget, which the President opposed and defeated. He
    twisted arms, got six Democrats to vote with him. We lost by one vote.
    We're going to balance the budget by the year 2002.
        The President wants to spend 20 percent more over the next 6 years;
    I want to spend 14 percent more and give that 6 percent back to the
    people. Remember, it's your money. It's

    [[Page 1848]]

    not his money, and it's not my money. It's your money, and you shouldn't
    have to apologize for wanting to keep all you can of it, but he ought to
    apologize for wanting to take more and more. He wants to give you sort
    of a Government tax cut which really doesn't mean anything.
        The President. You know, one of the responsibilities of growing
    older, it seems to me, is being able to tell people something they may
    not want to hear just because it's truth. When they had a $250 billion
    tax scheme--that is half the size of this one, this one is 550--they
    passed a budget that had $270 billion in Medicare cuts, the first
    education cuts in history, cut environmental enforcement by 25 percent,
    took away the guarantee of quality standards in nursing homes, took away
    the guarantee of health care to folks with disabilities.
        Don't take my word for this. The Economist magazine polled lots of
    economists. Seven Nobel Prize winners have said, if this tax scheme
    passes, it will require huge cuts--40 percent--in the environment, in
    law enforcement, in education. It will require bigger cuts in Medicare
    than I vetoed last time. My targeted tax cut gives tax cuts for
    education, childrearing, buying a first-time home, paying for health
    care costs, and it's paid for. And I've told you how I'll pay for it. He
    won't tell you because he can't.
        Senator Dole. Your targeted tax cut, Mr. President, never hits
    anybody. That's the problem with it. Nobody ever gets it.
        But I must say I'm a little offended by this word ``scheme.'' You
    talked about--last time you talked about a risky scheme, and then Vice
    President Gore repeated it about 10 times in St. Petersburg. If I have
    anything in politics, it's my word. My colleagues, Democrats and
    Republicans, will tell you that Bob Dole kept his word. I'm going to
    keep my word to you. I'm going to keep my word to the American people.
        We're going to cut taxes and balance the budget. We're not going to
    touch Medicare. It's going to grow 39 percent, and Social Security is
    going to grow 34 percent.
        Now, the President doesn't have any ideas so he's out trashing ours.
    This isn't going to blow a hole in the deficit. He promised you a tax
    cut in 1992, and if you got one, you ought to vote for him.
        Mr. Lehrer. Sir.
        The next question is for the President.
        Yes, sir, right there--white shirt.

    Family and Medical Leave Act

        Q. My name is Dwayne Burns. I'm a martial arts instructor and a
    father. Mr. President, could you outline any plans you have to expand
    the family leave act?
        The President. Thank you.
        Well, first let me say that I signed the family leave act. It was my
    very first bill, and I'm very proud of it because it symbolizes what I
    think we ought to be doing.
        I don't take credit for all the good things that have happened in
    America, but I take credit for what I've tried to do to work with others
    to make good things happen.
        The most important good things that happen in America happen in
    families. Just about every family I know, the main concern is how am I
    going to succeed at work and still do right by my children? Family and
    medical leave has let 12 million families take a little time off for the
    birth of a child or a family illness without losing their job. I'd like
    to see it expanded in two ways: I'd like to say you can also take a
    little time off without losing your job to go to a regular parent-
    teacher conference or to go to a regular doctor's appointment with a
    family member; I'd also like to see the overtime laws change so that we
    could have some more flextime so that at the discretion of the worker--
    the worker--if you earn overtime you could decide whether you want that
    time to be taken in cash or in time with your family if you've got a
    family problem.
        I never go anywhere, it seems like, where I don't meet somebody
    who's benefited from the family leave law. In Longview, Texas, the other
    day, I met a woman who was almost in tears because she had been able to
    keep her job while spending time with her husband who had cancer. One of
    the people who's here with me today met a woman in the airport saying
    that her son just was able to be present at the birth of his child
    because of the family leave law.
        So yes, I think it should be expanded. We have to help people
    succeed at home and at work.
        Senator Dole. Well, 88 percent of the people the President claims,
    or 11 million, are already covered. And only 5 percent--keep in mind,
    only 5 percent of the employers were even affected by the family leave
    act.

    [[Page 1849]]

        We had a better idea. We didn't win, but we had a better idea. Now
    we have a majority; we need to get a President. That was a tax credit to
    the employer. Instead of the Federal Government reaching out, we had a
    tax credit to pick up some of the cost, because if you have to hire a
    replacement worker, that's a cost. This is the way it ought to work.
    Give more power back to the States and back to the people, back to the
    taxpayers, not always the long arm of the Federal Government.
        But keep in mind this bill covers 5 percent of the employers; 95
    percent of the employers and all those employees they employ are not
    covered in this act. And according to Investors Daily, which I read just
    a couple of days ago, 88 percent of the people he claims credit for were
    already covered in collective bargaining agreements or other agreements.
        We had family leave in our office. I'm certain--I see my friend
    Senator Mitchell. He had family leave. I work every day with people. I
    spent a lot of time in hospitals. I know what it's like to be in a
    hospital. Sure, we want family leave, but there's a better way to do it.
        The President. I only have 30 seconds. I can't fix the statistics.
    It covers the majority of the work force. Employers of under 50 are
    exempted. The bill originally covered employers of 25 and more, but
    because of opposition, we went up to 50. Senator Dole led the opposition
    to it. He filibustered it. He said it was a mistake. He said it would
    hurt the economy. We've had record numbers of new small businesses and
    10\1/2\ million jobs. It didn't hurt the economy. He still believes it's
    a mistake. I believe it was right. You can decide which of us you think
    are right. It's up to you.
        Mr. Lehrer. Next question for Senator Dole.
        This side. Yes, ma'am.

    Domestic Manufacturing

        Q. Hi. My name is Bridget Gianotti, and I'm a wife and mother of two
    sons from Carlsbad. And my question for you, Senator Dole, is as the
    wife of a San Diego business owner, I see one of our biggest problems is
    the U.S. does not manufacture enough of our own products. How would you
    help this problem out?
        Senator Dole. Well, right, we've lost 357,000 manufacturing jobs.
    And the Bureau of Labor Statistics said today that they made a mistake,
    it's probably going to be a much, much higher figure. So we're talking
    about all these new jobs, we'd better wait and see what the results are.
        We're going to do that with a more aggressive trade policy. We're
    going to do that with an economic package. We're going to do that with
    regulatory reform. You know, regulations cost the average family--right
    here, Democrat or Republican--about $7,000 a year--7,000. It's like a
    tax. Put a lot of people out of business.
        I met a lady in Colorado Springs about 7 weeks ago, now. She had a
    small business with 63 employees. She finally gave it up. Why? Because
    of paperwork and regulation. Congress passed the Paperwork Reduction
    Act. The President exempts the IRS, which creates three-fourths of the
    paperwork.
        We're going to have regulatory--we're going to have litigation
    reform. You know, I fell off a platform out in California, in Chico, a
    while back. Before I hit the ground, my cell phone rang, and this trial
    lawyer says, ``I think we've got a case here.'' [Laughter] You know,
    we've got to stop some of these frivolous lawsuits. They're putting
    people out of business, men and women. Get the economy going, cut the
    capital gains rate, create more jobs and opportunities for everybody in
    America--that's what we will do, and my word is good. I keep my
    promises. I don't break my promises after the election, and I don't make
    new promises on an election year.
        We're going to get it done; we're going to grow some of these jobs
    in America because we need to get it. They're going the wrong way.
        The President. Let's look at the facts. We lost a lot of
    manufacturing jobs in the 12 years before I became President. We've
    gained manufacturing jobs since I've been President. We've negotiated
    over 200 separate trade agreements.
        Let's just take California. In California, we made $37 billion worth
    of telecommunications equipment eligible for exports for the first time.
    We're selling everything from telephones to CD's to rice in Japan. We're
    selling American automobiles in Japan now. I visited a Chrysler
    dealership in Japan. We're number one in automobile manufacturing,
    production, and sales around the world again for the first time since
    the 1970's. Why? Because we've had tough, aggressive trade policies, and
    because we got interest rates down, and we had a good, stable economic
    policy, because we've reduced the deficit 4 years in a row for the first
    time in the 20th

    [[Page 1850]]

    century that a President's done that in all 4 years.
        And that's why I don't want to see us blow a big hole in the deficit
    with a tax program we can't pay for so your interest rates will go up
    and you'll have to pay back in higher interest rates what you allegedly
    will get in a tax cut.
        So I say keep working on expanding the markets. More than half of
    these 10\1/2\ million new jobs were in higher wage areas, and we'll have
    more manufacturing and more sales at home and around the world.
        Senator Dole. Well, you may think the biggest employer in America is
    General Motors, but I've got news for you. It's manpower services,
    hiring people temporarily who've lost their jobs and they go to work for
    30 days or 60 days. That's a good economy? I don't think so. They're
    setting new records this year.
        We have the worst economy in a century. We have the slowest growth,
    about 2.5 percent. The President inherited a growth of over 5 percent.
    We don't have the S&L crisis anymore. Republicans have cut $53 billion
    in spending. That's why the budget can look good. It didn't look too
    good the first 2 years when we had a Democratic President and a
    Democratic Congress.
        Mr. Lehrer. The next question is for President Clinton. Yes, sir?

    Gay Rights

        Q. I'm Bob Goldfarb. I'm a travel agent. And can you please explain
    your policy on the employment nondiscrimination act that would have
    prohibited discrimination, would have prohibited people from being fired
    from their jobs simply for being gay or lesbian?
        The President. I'm for it. That's my policy. I'm for it. I believe
    that any law-abiding taxpaying citizen who shows up in the morning and
    doesn't break the law and doesn't interfere with his or her neighbors
    ought to have the ability to work in our country and shouldn't be
    subject to unfair discrimination. I'm for it.
        Now, I have a little time left, so let me just say that I get
    attacked so many times on these questions it's hard to answer all those
    things. In February--Senator Dole just said we had the worst economy in
    a century. In February he said we had the best economy in 30 years--just
    February. And I don't want to respond in kind to all these things. I
    could; I could answer a lot of these things tit for tat. But I hope we
    can talk about what we're going to do in the future. No attack ever
    created a job or educated a child or helped a family make ends meet. No
    insult ever cleaned up a toxic waste dump or helped an elderly person.
    Now, for 4 years that's what I've worked on. If you'll give me 4 years
    more, I'll work on it some more.
        And I'll try to answer these charges, but I prefer to emphasize
    direct answers to the future, and I gave you a direct answer.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole?
        Senator Dole. Well, I'm opposed to discrimination in any form, but
    I'm--but I don't favor creating special rights for any group. That would
    be my answer to this question. And I'm--you know, there'd be special
    rights for different groups in America, but I'm totally opposed to
    discrimination, don't have any policy against hiring anyone--whether
    it's lifestyle or whatever, we don't have any policy of that kind, never
    have had in my office, nor will we have in the future.
        But as far as special rights, I'm opposed to same-sex marriages,
    which the President signed well after midnight one morning, in the dark
    of night--he opposed it.
        But I'll get back to the economic package because again, I think
    this is very important. If there is anything that's going to change
    America, it's get the economy to grow. The President inherited a good
    economy--sure. The S&L crisis ended, we were selling assets, we had a
    Republican Congress cutting spending finally, and he says we've had the
    best 4 years ever. That's not true. We've had over 1.2 million
    bankruptcies--set a new record. Credit card debt has never been higher.
    I just told you about this manufacturing job loss which is going to
    increase.
        We need a good, strong economic package. Let the private sector
    create the jobs. And they can do it.
        Mr. Lehrer. Mr. President?
        The President. If you believe that the California economy was better
    in 1992 than it is today, you should vote for Bob Dole. I have worked so
    hard out here to help turn this economy around.
        Let me just give you one tiny example. In San Diego, where we had
    some defense cutbacks, we funded a project with the University of
    California, San Diego to use airplane composite materials to build
    lighter, stronger bridges--

    [[Page 1851]]

    a little project, and a program that Senator Dole opposed--and that
    composite now is going to be built around the bridges on the Santa
    Monica freeway to help minimize the impact of earthquakes and create
    more jobs. That's just one tiny example. Maybe we'll talk about some
    more before it's over.
        Mr. Lehrer. The next question is for Senator Dole and it's from this
    section.
        Yes, ma'am? Yes?

    Health Care

        Q. Senator Dole, I am Verda Stratigus, and I work in health care.
    And it's truly an honor to be here tonight to address both of you.
        Senator Dole. Thank you.
        Q. Being in health care--we have talked a little bit about health
    care tonight, but mainly MediCal and Medicare have been mentioned, but
    the private sector is a problem. Managed care is taking over, especially
    in California, and because of that, the quality of care is going
    downhill. There are many, many people who cannot get the tests that they
    need when they need them. And because of that, they are dying
    needlessly. There are many, many more lawsuits being presented against
    the managed care industry because of this. And I think it's a real
    problem that needs to be addressed. What would you do if you were
    President?
        Senator Dole. Well, one thing I did was to oppose the Government
    takeover of health care that President Clinton offered in 1993, which
    created 17 new taxes and 50 new bureaucracies and price controls,
    because we were afraid the very thing you mentioned would have happened.
    Everybody would have been forced into managed care. You couldn't have
    chosen your own doctor. And that would have been the end.
        And I think right now we've got to go back--I know they've appointed
    a commission to take a look at managed care. Maybe that's part of the
    answer. But it seems to me, if we start to take choices away from people
    and if we drive them into one type care, if we eliminate fee-for-service
    altogether or eliminate the fact you can go to your own doctor, you've
    got to go somewhere else, then I think we've taken a giant step backward
    in the United States of America.
        We have the best health care delivery system in the world, and we
    want to keep it that way. That's why we opposed the Government takeover
    health care plan that President Clinton tried and tried and tried to get
    through Congress.
        Didn't get it done. When it ended up we had more votes than he had,
    then they decided to pull the plug. It was a big, big mistake. Now,
    whether or not he'll do that again, I've heard some of the people say,
    ``Well, that's the model we ought to use.'' And if he's reelected, maybe
    he'll come back and try it again. I hope not. I hope not in both cases.
    But it does seem to me that you've raised a very important point that
    needs to be addressed. We're going to have to watch it, going to have to
    take a look at all the managed care going on in California, or we're
    going to end up losing our best care that we have in the world.
        The President. I'm just curious. How many of you are under managed
    care plans? Raise your hand if you're in managed care.
        Senator Dole. Probably the young people here.
        The President. How many of you like it? Well----
        Senator Dole. Two.
        The President. One of the things that I tried to do was to make sure
    that everybody in the country who was under a managed care plan should
    at least have three choices of plans and would have the right to get out
    without penalty every year. Now, that's not a Government takeover,
    that's like the family and medical leave law. It just tries to set the
    rules of the game.
        I'm strongly in favor of a Federal bill to repeal the--any gag rules
    on providers. In other words, I believe that doctors should not be able
    to be kicked out of managed care plans just because they tell the
    patients what they need and what more expensive care options might be.
        If we're saving money and managing resources better, that's a good
    thing. If we're saving money and depriving people of care, that's a bad
    thing. A good place to start is to say no managed care provider can gag
    a doctor and kick the doctor out of the managed care plan for the doctor
    telling the patient, ``You need a more expensive test, you need a more
    expensive procedure. Your health requires it.''
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole?
        Senator Dole. Well, I don't have any quarrel with that. I think that
    would help. But I think what we want to avoid is falling back into this
    nationalized health care system that President Clinton wanted to give us
    in 1993. If that isn't

    [[Page 1852]]

    a liberal idea, I've never heard one: 17 new taxes; price controls; 50
    new bureaucracies. We'd have that trouble all over America.
        We need to deal with managed care. It not only happened in
    California, it's happening in other States that we visit too. It's a
    national problem, not just a State problem.
        Mr. Lehrer. The next question is for President Clinton, and in this
    section. Yes, ma'am. Yes.

    Participation in Electoral Process

        Q. All right, I'd sort of like to--Coleen O'Connor. I teach history
    and political science at San Diego Mesa College right up the road here.
    And I'd like to tee off from the original question by another teacher
    and speak for those people that aren't here tonight. Sixty-three percent
    of the American people are not participating, that are eligible to vote,
    not even participating in the process. Several parties can't even get
    into the debate: the Green Party, the Reform Party, the Natural Law
    Party. All of these people have basically opted out of what we're still
    participating in.
        And if we in fact are going to bring the country back together and
    be all faces around the table, the new American family, what do you see
    as something the President can do to begin that process to bring them
    back in?
        The President. First of all, I think it's important to make voting
    more accessible. That's why I strongly supported the motor voter law.
    There was a big story, I think, in USA Today about the millions of
    people who've now registered because of it.
        Secondly, I think we need to look at making the elections more
    accessible. You know, several States now are letting people vote over 3
    weeks. A lot of people are busy, and it's hard for them to just get
    there and vote.
        The third thing I think we need is more forums like this, which is
    one of the reasons I have so strongly supported campaign finance reform,
    because if you want to cut the cost of campaigns, you have to open the
    airwaves, because what drives the cost of a campaign are the costs of
    advertising on television, radio, newspaper, mass mailing. And if you
    open the airwaves to more things like this--you see, it's not just you
    that are participating here. For every one of you who stood up here and
    asked a question tonight, I promise you, there's 100,000 Americans that
    said, ``I wish I could have asked that question.''
        So I think we have to change the nature of politics. The last thing
    I think we should do is something I've been trying to do since I've been
    President, is every time I do something in a public way, I try to have a
    real American citizen there who is directly affected by it so that
    people can see the connection of what happens way across the country in
    Washington with more police on the street in San Diego, clean up the
    sewage here in San Diego, doubling the border guards here in southern
    California, that there is a connection between what we do way back there
    and what we do here.
        Those are my best ideas about it.
        Senator Dole. Well, I don't know of any perfect solution. I've been
    in politics for some time, and I worry about people who don't vote. And
    I wonder if it's our fault, the candidates' fault. People say ``I don't
    care. One vote doesn't make a difference.'' I can give you hundreds of
    cases--you can probably give me 200 cases where one vote made a
    difference. I know it made a lot of difference many times in the
    Congress. Campaign finance might help, might help contributions coming
    in from Indonesia or other foreign countries, rich people in those
    countries, and then being sent back after the L.A. Times discovers it--
    $250,000.
        But maybe there ought to be more debates. I'd be willing to have
    another debate this year where we'd invite all of the candidates and
    talk about the economy. If we don't get the economy to grow, if we don't
    cut taxes, and give people child credits, and cut the capital gains
    rate, and get this economy growing, we're going to limp into the next
    century. If we grow the economy, it's going to help Social Security,
    it's going to help jobs, it's going to help everything.
        The President. Let me make one other suggestion. As you're a
    teacher, you can have an impact on that.
        One of the things I think that really frustrates people is that so
    often, political campaigns seem to be more about the politicians that
    are running than the people. Now, there is a connection, and I think
    what we have to do is convince people there's a big difference. If you
    vote one way, you will have a Department of Education in the 21st
    century; if you vote the other way, you won't. If you vote one way,
    you'll have an expansion of family leave; if you vote the other way,
    you'll be lucky to save it.
        But these are important questions, and people have to decide. I
    think that the American people

    [[Page 1853]]

    also need to be a little more responsible and think about whether
    there's a connection in their lives and what we do in Washington.
        Mr. Lehrer. For Senator Dole, in this section. On the back row, yes,
    ma'am.

    Social Security and Alternatives

        Q. I'm Iris Seiffert, and I'm unemployed.
        Senator Dole. Iris?
        Q. Iris. Senator Dole, we talked about Social Security for us baby
    boomers, but shouldn't we be saving and investing for our own retirement
    as well? Are you planning any incentives to encourage us to take care of
    ourselves rather than to rely on the Government and on Social Security
    when we retire?
        Senator Dole. Well, we have in our economic pack individual
    retirement accounts where we think it'll encourage savings. You could
    also use those accounts for health care or education or a first home.
    We're doing that precisely. And I think one thing sooner or later we're
    going to have to consider is to take a look at the Social Security
    system, because we've got a lot of people advocating that, well, we
    don't want to put our money into Social Security. Now, you've got to be
    very careful about that, because you have to protect the people who are
    already in the pipeline. But it's something you might consider. I'm not
    suggesting it will be done, but at least we ought to look at it.
        It's been looked--when I was chairman of the Finance Committee,
    which handles Social Security, we looked at all these options, and one
    thing we've got to make certain--when I used to go home, my mother would
    tell me, ``All I've got is my Social Security; don't touch it.'' And we
    didn't touch it. We preserved it.
        And I'm an optimist. Your Social Security is going to be there when
    you retire. We'll fix it. It will probably happen in the year 2012 or
    2015. In 1983, we thought we had a 75-year fix. It didn't work--much,
    much less. But at least we fixed it for some time, and 37 to 40 million
    people get their checks on time.
        So we need to preserve the system, and we need to make it stronger.
    But we also need to look at some options whether or not we--it would
    depend on what the options are. In fact, they've got a commission right
    now in Congress, a bipartisan commission, looking at all the different
    options they're going to present to the next Congress. So I think we'll
    wait and see what they present, take a look at it.
        The President. This is one where we have some agreement, I think.
    Only about half the people in this country have pension plans, and
    Social Security is not enough for a lot of people to live on, or at
    least it's not enough for them to maintain anything like their previous
    lifestyle. So we've got to figure out how we're going to have more
    people with pension plans. And pension coverage has been declining as
    more and more people work for small businesses and fewer people work for
    big businesses.
        So what is in my plan--and I think it's almost identical to what's
    in Senator Dole's plan--is we make more people than are now eligible to
    save in an IRA, and we'd let couples--married couples save more, and
    then they could withdraw from it tax-free if they needed to for medical
    emergencies or to buy a home or for an education, but they could also
    save to supplement their retirement.
        In addition to that, we just passed a sweeping small business reform
    that makes it easier for small-business people to take out 401(k) plans
    for themselves and their employees and then much easier for employees to
    carry it from job to job. My best friend from grade school is a computer
    software salesman, and he told me last time he changed employers it took
    him 9 months to figure out how to transfer his 401(k) plan. Now, none of
    that will happen anymore. And so I hope that over the next 10 years
    you'll see a big increase in the percentage of people that have pension
    plans plus a secure Social Security System.
        Senator Dole. Did you say you're unemployed? The first thing we
    ought to do is get you a job. And that's the economic package again:
    Create jobs and opportunities, reduce the capital gains rate, reduce
    regulatory reform, stop some of this senseless litigation, and let
    people work in America. And I think that's the thrust we will make.
        Obviously, Social Security is a very important program. It'll be
    preserved--Democrats or Republicans. It'll be preserved. We want to make
    certain we protect those in the pipeline, just as we did back in 1983.
    And we did it on a bipartisan basis. We took it out of politics. People
    get so tired of politics. And we ought to do the same with Medicare.
    Maybe we could make a deal here tonight.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, the question is for President Clinton. Does
    anybody have a foreign affairs question in this section? Yes, sir.

    [[Page 1854]]

    Trade With Japan

        Q. Good evening. I'm Michael Smith. I'm an electronics technician in
    the Navy. My question was how you plan to deal with the trade deficit
    with Japan?
        The President. Let me tell you what we have done. We have concluded
    with Japan 21, about to be 22 trade agreements now. And since we did
    that, in the areas where we concluded trade agreements, our exports to
    Japan have gone up by 85 percent in the last 4 years, and our trade
    deficit with Japan has gone down. Until about 5 months ago, the Japanese
    economy was in a deep recession. It's coming back now, so they can buy
    even more American products, and I think it'll go down more.
        But I'm very--that's one of the real success stories here of the
    work we've done. We're selling Japanese rice from California for the
    first time. I visited a Chrysler dealership in Tokyo. I visited a Jeep
    plant, the oldest auto plant in America, in Toledo, Ohio, where they're
    going to export 41,000 right-hand-drive Jeeps this year, and they've got
    700 new jobs because of it.
        There is no easy way to do this. When you're dealing with an economy
    that's traditionally been more closed and one that's traditionally been
    more open, you just have to gut it out issue by issue by issue. We
    agreed in principle on our insurance agreement, and we're working on
    three or four other areas now. But the way you have to do it is make
    sure you're competitive--we're the most competitive country in the world
    now--and then just fight to open those markets and go try to make the
    sale. And that's what our trade ambassador, our Commerce Secretary, and
    all the other people in our administration have tried to do.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator?
        Senator Dole. Well, the bottom line is we've got to stop exporting
    jobs. We need to keep jobs here. I said there are 357,000 good jobs,
    manufacturing jobs, which were lost. And I assume some of those because
    of our trading partners; we didn't have access to their markets. We
    ought to insist on access. If we don't have access to their markets the
    same way they have access to our markets, we ought to say, ``Wait,
    that's enough. Time out. When you give us access, we'll give you
    access.''
        It's very hard to get into the Japanese market, as everybody knows.
    They want to get into our market. They sell a lot of automobiles here,
    create a lot of jobs--those who sell exports. And it's very important to
    the economy. But I think we want to make certain.
        I supported the President's trade policy, but we've got to be more
    aggressive. Once you have a policy, then you've got to go out and be
    aggressive and enforce that policy. There are American jobs that are
    being lost. This is what Ross Perot complains about. And I'd say to the
    Reform Party, take a look at the Republican Party. We're the reform
    party, and we're going to make things better. And one of the things
    we're going to do is stop exporting jobs in America.
        The President. Let me say again, we've had over 200 separate trade
    agreements in the last 4 years, by far the largest number in American
    history, not just the big ones you've read about but a lot of smaller
    ones. And now what we have to do is to focus on those things we're real
    good at and make sure we're getting a fair deal.
        We just had a pretty serious dispute with China because they were
    copying our CD's and costing thousands of jobs in places like
    California. But we said, ``You know, if you want to keep doing business
    and selling your products over here, you're going to have to quit
    pirating our CD's.'' And they agreed to do a number of things and to let
    us verify that they'd done it. But I think they're going to make the
    problem much better.
        But there is not a simple, easy answer. You just have to work on
    this day-in and day-out, every month, every year, every issue to make
    sure that we have not only free trade but fair trade. I'm proud that
    we're better off on that than we were 4 years ago.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, the next question is for Senator Dole, and
    it's in this section. Yes, sir.

    Religion and Values

        Q. Ron Kite, minister.
        Senator Dole. Hi, Ron.
        Q. This great Nation has been established by the Founding Fathers,
    who possessed very strong Christian beliefs and godly principles. If
    elected President of the United States, what could you do to return this
    Nation to these basic principles? And also, do you feel that the office
    of the President has the responsibility to set the role example to
    inspire our young people?

    [[Page 1855]]

        Senator Dole. Well, no doubt about it, our Founding Fathers had a
    great deal of wisdom. And in addition to what you mentioned, they also
    were concerned about this all-powerful central Government in Washington,
    DC, that would in effect confiscate your property. So I carry around in
    my pocket--I can't pull it out, I'd violate the rules--a copy of the
    10th amendment, which says that we ought to return power to the States
    and power to the people--people here. You ought to make more decisions.
        Honor, duty, and country: that's what America is all about.
    Certainly the President of the United States, in the highest office in
    the world, the most important office in the world, has a responsibility
    to young people, as we talked about earlier--to everyone, by example.
    And when it comes to public ethics, he has a responsibility. When you
    have 30-some in your administration who've either left or are being
    investigated or in jail or whatever, then you've got an ethical problem.
    It's public ethics--I'm not talking about private, we're talking about
    public ethics--when you have 900 files gathered up by some guy who was a
    bouncer in a bar and hired as a security officer to collect files. In
    Watergate, I know a person who went to jail for looking at one file, one
    FBI file. There are 900 sequestered in the White House--900--people like
    you. Why should they be rifling through your files?
        So the President has a great responsibility. And it's one that I
    understand and would certainly carry out.
        The President. This is the most religious great country in history,
    and yet, interestingly enough, we have the most religious freedom of any
    country in the world, including the freedom not to believe. And now we
    have all these people--just up the road in Los Angeles County we've got
    people from 150 different racial and ethnic groups, and they've got tons
    of different religions. But the fundamental tenets of virtually every
    religion are the same. And what I've tried to do is to support policies
    that would respect religion, and then help parents inculcate those
    values to their children. Let me very briefly give you some examples.
        One of my proudest moments was signing the Religious Freedom
    Restoration Act, which says the Government's got to bend over backwards
    before we interfere with religious practice. So I changed a Justice
    Department effort to get a church to pay back a man's tithe because he
    was bankrupt when he gave it.
        I've supported character education programs in our schools, drug-
    free schools programs. I've supported giving parents a V-chip on their
    television so if they don't want their young kids to watch things they
    shouldn't watch, they wouldn't have to. That's the kind of thing we need
    to do, give people like you and our families the power to give those
    values to our children.
        Senator Dole. Well, I think it's--you know, before I came in
    tonight, my wife and daughter and I had a prayer because if it's God's
    will, whatever happens--if it's God's will, it will happen.
        A constitutional amendment for voluntary prayer in school in my view
    would be a great idea. I support it, and the President opposes it. I
    mean, it seems to me the President, whoever the President may be, this
    is one of his highest responsibilities. People look to the President of
    the United States more than any other person in America. And that's the
    way it's always been, and that's the way it always will be.
        Mr. Lehrer. All right, this is our last question. It goes to
    President Clinton, and it's from this section.
        Yes, ma'am?

    ``Special Rights''

        Q. My name is Evette Duby, and I too am a minister; I'm with the
    Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches.
        President Clinton, perhaps you can help me with something tonight.
    I've heard Mr. Dole say several times, ``all of us together.'' And when
    he was asked if he would support equal rights in employment for gay and
    lesbian people, you said that you favored that, and he said that he did
    not believe in special rights. And I thought the question was equal
    rights for all people, and I don't understand why people are using the
    term ``special rights'' when the question is equal rights. Could you
    help me in understanding that?
        The President. I want to answer your question, but let me say one
    other thing. We don't need a constitutional amendment for kids to pray.
    And what I did was to have the Justice Department and the Education
    Department, for the first time ever, issue a set of guidelines that we
    gave to every school in America saying that children could not be
    interfered with in religious advocacy, when they were praying, when they

    [[Page 1856]]

    were doing whatever they could do under the Constitution just because
    they were on a public school grounds. And I think anyone who has
    experienced this would tell you that our administration has done more
    than any in 30 years to clarify the freedom of religion in the public
    square, including in the public schools.
        Now, I think I have to let Senator Dole speak for himself. It
    wouldn't be fair for me to do that. I would wind up--I mean, it's the
    last question, and I'd mischaracterize it to try to make you happy.
        Let me tell you what I feel. We have a lot of differences in our
    country, and some of us believe that other people's decisions are wrong,
    even immoral. But under our Constitution, if you show up tomorrow and
    obey the law, and you work hard, and you do what you are supposed to do,
    you're entitled to equal treatment. That's the way the system works.
        All over the world, people are being torn apart--Bosnia, the Middle
    East, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Burundi, you name it--because of all
    their differences. We still have some of that hatred inside us; you see
    it in the church burnings. And one of the things I've tried hardest to
    do is to tell the American people that we have to get beyond that, we
    have to understand that we're stronger when we unite around shared
    values instead of being divided by our differences.
        Mr. Lehrer. Senator Dole?
        Senator Dole. Well, I hope I made my answer clear. I said I'm
    opposed to discrimination. You know, we've suffered discrimination in
    the disability community. There are 43 million of us. And I can recall
    cases where people would cross the street rather than meet somebody in a
    wheelchair.
        So we want to end discrimination. I think that answers itself. No
    discrimination in America. We've made that clear. And I would just say
    that it seems to me that that's the way it ought to be. We shouldn't
    discriminate--race, color, whatever, lifestyle, disability. This is
    America, and we're all proud of it. But we're not there yet. What we
    need is good, strong leadership going into the next century.
        I'm sorry we didn't have a foreign policy question, because just
    this week Secretary Christopher said, ``Well, we really didn't know much
    the first couple of years about foreign policy.'' Now, that was quite an
    admission. It underscores what I had to say in the Hartford debate, that
    there is really no foreign policy in this administration. It's sort of
    ad hoc: ``Whatever comes up, we'll deal with it.'' Unfortunately, we
    didn't have more questions on that.
        The President. Let me say again, there is no more important
    responsibility for the President than to say, ``If you believe in the
    Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence,
    that's all we need to know. And you can be part of our America, and you
    can walk across that bridge to the 21st century with us.''
        And we are not well served when we attack each other in a kind of an
    ad hominem way. It doesn't create jobs. It doesn't educate children. It
    doesn't solve problems. We need to be disagreeing on ideas honestly and
    talking about the future. The future will be the greatest time in this
    country's history if we can beat this division that is bedeviling the
    whole rest of the world.

    Closing Statements

        Mr. Lehrer. All right. Now we go to the closing statements. Senator
    Dole, you're first. Two minutes, sir.
        Senator Dole. Well, let me thank everybody here at the university,
    and Jim, thank you, all the people who may still be watching or viewing.
    This is what it's all about. It's not about me. It's not about President
    Clinton. It's about the process. It's about selecting a President of the
    United States.
        So we have our differences. We should have our differences. I
    mentioned other parties. They have their differences. If we all agreed,
    it'd be a pretty dull place. We should have more debates. Maybe we'll
    have another debate on the economy.
        But I would just say this: This is the highest honor that I have
    ever had in my life, to think that somebody from Russell, Kansas,
    somebody who grew up living in a basement apartment, somebody whose
    parents didn't finish high school, somebody who spent about 39 months in
    hospitals after World War II, somebody who uses a buttonhook every day
    to get dressed, somebody who understands that there are real Americans
    out there with real problems, whether soccer moms or the single parents
    or families working or seniors or people with disabilities, whoever it
    may be.
        But there are some very fundamental differences in this campaign.
    President Clinton opposes term limits. President Clinton opposes a

    [[Page 1857]]

    constitutional amendment to balance the budget. President Clinton
    opposes a voluntary prayer amendment. He opposes an amendment to protect
    the flag of the United States of America. People give their lives--a
    couple of servicemen here--they sacrifice, they give everything for
    America. We ought to protect the American flag with a constitutional
    amendment.
        But beyond that, we need to address the economy. And I would just
    say, with my time running out here, it's a very proud moment for me. And
    what I want the voters to do is to make a decision. And I want them to
    be proud of their vote in the years ahead, proud that they voted for the
    right candidate, proud that they voted, hopefully, for me.
        And I'll just make you one promise. My word is good. Democrats and
    Republicans have said Bob Dole's word is good. I keep my word. I promise
    you, the economy is going to get better, we're going to have a good
    economic package, and we're going into the next century a better
    America.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Lehrer. Mr. President.
        The President. Thank you, Jim. And thank you, ladies and gentlemen,
    and all the people who are watching.
        One thing I'd like to say is I agree with what Senator Dole said.
    It's a remarkable thing in a country like ours that a man who grew up in
    Russell, Kansas, and one who was born to a widowed mother in Hope,
    Arkansas, could wind up running for President, could have a chance to
    serve as President. So the first thing I want to say is thank you for
    giving me the chance to be President.
        This election is about two different visions about how we should go
    into the 21st century. Would we be better off--as I believe--working
    together to give each other the tools we need to make the most of our
    God-given potential, or are we better off saying, ``You're on your
    own''? Would we be better off building that bridge to the future
    together so we can all walk across it, or saying, ``You can get across
    yourself''?
        If you don't leave this room with anything else tonight and if the
    people watching us don't leave with anything else, I hope you'll leave
    with this: This is a real important election. The world is changing
    dramatically in how we work and how we live, how we relate to each
    other--huge changes. And the decisions we make will have enormous
    practical consequences.
        So we've talked about our responsibilities tonight. I want to talk
    about your responsibility and your responsibility. Your responsibility
    is to show up on November 5th, because you're going to decide whether
    we're going to balance the budget now but protect Medicare, Medicaid,
    education, and the environment. You'll decide whether we're going to
    keep fighting crime with the Brady bill, the assault weapons, and finish
    putting those 100,000 police; whether we're going to move a million
    people from welfare to work; whether we're going to give our families
    more protection for their kids against drugs and tobacco and gangs and
    guns; whether we're going to give our children world-class education
    where every 8-year-old can read, every 12-year-old can log in on the
    Internet, every 18-year-old can go to college.
        If we do those things, we'll build that bridge to the 21st century,
    and the greatest country in history will be even greater.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Lehrer. Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Mr. President.
        This concludes--this is the last of the three 1996 Presidential and
    Vice Presidential debates.

    Note: The debate began at 6 p.m. at the Shiley Theatre at the University
    of San Diego. In their remarks, the candidates referred to Chairman
    Yasser Arafat of the Palestinian Authority and Prime Minister Binyamin
    Netanyahu of Israel.