[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1995, Book II)]
[September 21, 1995]
[Pages 1427-1440]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With Larry King in Culver City, California
September 21, 1995

President's Trip

    Mr. King. Thank you for joining us. This is a campaign trip or a 
Presidential trip?
    The President. Well, a little of both.
    Mr. King. Why so early?
    The President. Because we have to get out now and raise our funds. 
And if I can do it in a regular, disciplined way, then I can maintain as 
much time as possible for my job even next year when the election 
begins.
    Mr. King. Is it hard to run a country and run for office?
    The President. It is if you have to do it full-time. And I just 
determined that the best thing to do would be to try to handle the 
fundraising in a regular way this year and try to get it out of the way 
so I could spend as much time as possible being President next year and 
defer the campaign as long as possible.
    Mr. King. Oh, so next year the campaign is going to come late to 
you.
    The President. Well, it depends what happens. But what I'd like to 
do is to work as much as I can. Even on this trip we've done several 
official things. This morning I was up in San Francisco with 19 
executives of major information firms announcing that we were going to 
provide computer hookups for all the schools in California over the next 
couple of years and challenging the rest of the country to follow the 
lead. And over the next few weeks, I'll be trying to put together a 
national plan for this sort of thing. We know we can get computers in 
all of the schools, and if we can get the teachers trained, have good 
software, we're going to do very well, indeed.
    Mr. King. Was Bill Gates there?
    The President. He was not, although I know him quite well, and I 
expect that he will be very supportive of this.
    Mr. King. Because he said recently on a show we did on television 
that he would be very supportive.
    Mr. President. Yes, he--I know him quite well, and we've talked 
about this extensively. But he couldn't come today. We had lots and lots 
of other people there. There's a great feeling that California ought to 
lead the way because the State is now only 45th in students--computers 
per student--but they have the--they're the technological leader of the 
world. So I'm encouraged by it. It's a very exciting thing.

[[Page 1428]]

1996 Election

    Mr. King. All right. This is the audience's show, but let's cover 
some bases right up front. When are you going to announce?
    The President. Don't know.
    Mr. King. This is just pro forma, right?
    The President. It's a pro forma thing. Everyone knows I intend to 
run again. And again, I would like to put it off as long as possible. 
I----
    Mr. King. Because?
    The President. Because there is so much work that needs to be done. 
In the next 60 days, in the working out of this budget, we're going to 
define in some measure what our country is going to be like for the next 
several years. And I just want to continue to focus on the substance of 
the changes we ought to make and the values we ought to put up front in 
protecting families and individuals and trying to bring our country 
together and give people a chance to make the most of their own lives 
and try to write that into the budget. And I think the less politics, 
the less partisanship we have, the better off we're going to be.
    Mr. King. And Al Gore will run again, too?
    The President. He will unless he decides not to. I think--you know, 
he's plainly the most influential and effective Vice President in the 
history of the country, what he's done with technology, what he's done 
with the environment, what he has done with reinventing the Government. 
We have done more than any previous administration, Republican or 
Democratic, to shrink the size of Government, reduce regulation, and 
basically make Government more entrepreneurial. And he's led that 
effort. And of course, he's been the leading voice in what we've done in 
foreign policy as well. So I'm looking forward to running with him, and 
I like working with him.
    Mr. King. A few areas. I don't even have to ask a question, I just 
say a name. Colin Powell--what do you make of it?
    The President. Well, as you know, I've worked with him and I like 
him and I think he's got a very compelling life story and he's a very 
appealing man. And I think his book will do very well. I have no idea 
what he's going to do, and I can't--I don't really have any influence 
over it. So what I have to do is----
    Mr. King. You have to think about it, though. I mean, the polls 
coming out that he's doing great and----
    The President. Believe it or not--well, and you would expect that. I 
mean, he's a very impressive man, and he's gotten a lot of very 
favorable publicity, much of it very well deserved. And so that's just a 
part of it.
    But I have no control over that. What I have to do is to do the job 
the people gave me. And I really believe, in the world we're living in, 
with so much change going on and people being bombarded from all sides 
with so much information, people like me who are in office should not 
worry so much about being popular. We ought to do what we think is right 
for the long run and then hope--believe the election can be our friend. 
Because only when the election starts do people really begin to focus on 
it.

Public's Mistrust of Government

    Mr. King. Are you, though, concerned about this apparent feeling in 
the country--Powell said it the other night on my television show--a 
plague on both the Houses, the Democrats, the Republicans. Bill Bradley 
is a classic example--he leaves the Senate. What's going on? Both 
parties seem to be in disfavor.
    The President. Well, I think they're in disfavor right now because 
the American people have seen them fighting in the Congress and they've 
seen few results since the last election and because in the previous 
election they didn't understand what results had actually occurred. But 
if you look at the facts--first, I think there's a good chance that we 
will get a budget agreement that will both balance the budget, which 
both parties want, but which will preserve our fundamental obligations 
to our children in terms of education and technology in the future----
    Mr. King. And that will change the feelings?
    The President. ----and to the elderly in terms of having--reducing 
the rate at which Medicare and Medicaid grow but still not really 
hurting a lot of the older people of the country. If we get a good 
balanced budget, if we can get a decent welfare reform bill, if the 
people see the system working, then I think they will not have such 
negative feelings about both parties.
    But I also believe, in fairness, that the Democratic Party has done 
a lot of things that most Americans never thought they would. I mean, 
the Democrats took the lead alone in reducing

[[Page 1429]]

the deficit from $290 billion to $160 billion a year. They passed a 
crime bill that increased the death penalty but also invested more in 
prevention, that had ``three strikes and you're out'' but also put 
100,000 police on the street. The crime rate is going down in every 
State in the country. The murder rate is down. The only----
    Mr. King. So why are we upset?
    The President. Well, because we still have troubles and because it's 
an unsettling time. If you look at what's happened all over the world, 
you've got this global economy that's going from an information society 
to a technology and--I mean, it's going from an industrial society to a 
technology and informational economy----
    Mr. King. Look at all this here tonight.
    The President. Yes. And you--look at all this, yes. And you've got--
people are going to be faxing us; they're going to be E-mailing us; 
they're going to be doing all this stuff on the Internet. We don't have 
the cold war anymore, with nation-states organized in roughly two 
different camps. We've got instead a global economy. And the good news 
is you've got economic integration. The bad news is there's all this 
pressure for unsettling people's lives, whether it's people being less 
secure in their jobs or working harder for less or being subject to 
smaller fanatic groups who practice destruction like the sarin gas 
attack in the Tokyo subway or the Oklahoma City bombing or a bus blowing 
up in Israel.
    So it's a time of great ferment and upheaval where there are a lot 
of wonderful things going on and a lot of very troubling things going 
on. And the United States has--our job now, all of us in positions of 
authority and all of our citizens, is to embrace new ideas and change to 
try to create a new economy in which we can grow the middle class and 
shrink the under class, to try to create a social policy which rewards 
work and family and freedom and responsibility and to try to give us a 
different kind of Government that's more entrepreneurial and less 
bureaucratic but helps people solve their own problems.
    Now, this has only happened--the last time this happened to this 
extent was 100 years ago. This is a 100-year change period we're going 
through. And it is not surprising in a period like this that people 
would be looking around at all their options because they think there 
are so many balls up in the air.
    Mr. King. So, therefore, come independent candidates and disfavor 
and people leaving politics.
    The President. Yes. And not only that, if you've got--look, if you 
go home at night and you've got 40 channels on television, and they say, 
which would you rather have, three parties or two, you'd say three. And 
if you ask five or four, they might say five.
    But I think that if this system that we have, which has made us the 
oldest democracy in human history, the longest lasting one, if it 
produces a balanced budget with a commitment to our children and our 
future and being decent to the seniors on Medicare and Medicaid, if it 
produces welfare reform that promotes work and responsibility without 
hurting innocent children, if it shows that it can come to grips with 
the fundamental challenges of the time, then it will generate more 
support. If it doesn't solve the problems, then it won't. It's pretty 
simple.

1996 Election

    Mr. King. Would you welcome an independent candidate? Is that good 
for the mix?
    The President. I think it----
    Mr. King. You ran against it last time.
    The President. I did. And I think it all depends. I think it depends 
on who the candidate is, what the person says, what the issues are. But 
the main----
    Mr. King. What Powell would be for?
    The President. Yes.
    Mr. King. Could we elect a black President? Are we ready?
    The President. Oh, I think the American people--I would hope the 
American people would judge any candidate based on his or her merits, 
without regard to race or gender. That's what I hope, and that's the 
America I've worked for all my life. If you look at my appointments, if 
you look at the policies I've pursued, that's the America I've worked 
for.
    But I think--again, I will say it takes almost all the concentration 
I can muster every day to do the job I was hired to do. And that's what 
I'm going to work on.
    Mr. King. But you love it.
    The President. I love it. I love working every day.
    Mr. King. You told me once, ``My bad days are good days.''
    The President. Yes, because of--it is an incredible gift, with all 
the difficulties, to be given

[[Page 1430]]

the opportunity to meet these challenges. And as I said, I honestly 
believe, when the history of this era is written people will say this 
was the period of the biggest change in the way we work and live in 100 
years. So who could not be grateful to do that for a day, a week, a 
month, 4 years? If I get 8 years, that's so much the better. I'm working 
hard at it.

Welfare Reform

    Mr. King. We're going to turn it over to the public. Are you going 
to sign off on this welfare bill?
    The President. It depends on what it looks like. The Senate bill--I 
still have a few problems with the Senate bill. But it basically is 
much, much better. They took a lot of the extreme, kind of right-wing 
ideological things out of it. They've put in a bonus for moving people 
to work. They require people to sign personal responsibility contracts. 
They've put in a lot more funds for child care so people can go to work 
and still be good parents. These are all ideas that I have been pressing 
a long time. So I like it.
    It really would end welfare as we know it. And I think we can make 
it--if we can make it a little better in conference, I'll be happy to 
sign it. If they make it a lot worse, they could kill it. I think it 
wouldn't even get back to the Senate again.
    Mr. King. Right now you're leaning toward yes?
    The President. Well, right now I like a lot of--the changes in the 
Senate bill that were made in the last 2 weeks were very good. If that's 
the direction the Congress is going in, we're going to have a great 
welfare reform proposal. But it still could get off the track. I just 
hope they'll keep going in that direction.
    Mr. King. This is Westwood One. You're listening to Larry King with 
President Bill Clinton.

[At this point, the stations took a commercial break.]

    Mr. King. Our guest is President Bill Clinton. Granada Hills, 
California. Hello.
    Q. Hello?
    Mr. King. Yes. Go right ahead.

The Environment

[A participant asked what the administration had done to help the 
environment.]

    Mr. King. Did you hear that clear?
    The President. Yes. What have we done in the last 4 years to help 
the environment?
    Mr. King. We don't hear a lot about Clinton and environment?
    The President. We have, first of all, faithfully advanced the cause 
of the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. Secondly, we have done a 
great deal to try to promote public health in dealing with problems like 
the cryptosporidium problem that--that was the thing that got into the 
water in Milwaukee that killed all the people. We're trying to deal with 
that.
    Mr. King. Only you would know the actual name.
    The President. We've also tried to improve public health through 
improving the food testing, like dealing with the problems with E. coli 
that caused the deaths from eating the meat.
    Mr. King. Would you say you've kept your promises?
    The President. Oh, absolutely. I have pushed through the California 
Desert Protection Act here, which was the biggest single land protection 
act and that kind of legislation in history. We worked very hard to 
solve the problems of the old-growth forests in the Pacific Northwest--
which the Congress has kind of messed up now--to get that out of court 
to protect the old-growth forests and to try at the same time to permit 
responsible logging. We reached an accord between the environmentalists 
and the farmers here in this so-called Bay Delta accord, in the farming 
area of California. We have worked to try to reduce the global warming 
and hazardous emissions through working on the clean car project with 
Detroit. We've supported the development of electric cars and natural 
gas-burning cars and other things to promote clean air.
    Those are just some of the many things we've done in the 
environment. And in addition to that, I'm obviously carrying on a 
vigorous fight now to prevent this Congress from using the budget 
process to undermine our ability to stick up for clean air, clean water, 
and the other basic environmental protections of the country.
    Mr. King. Sacramento with President Clinton on Westwood One. Hello?
    Q. Hello. Can you hear me?
    Mr. King. Yes, sure.

[[Page 1431]]

Education Funding

[A participant asked about focusing on a stronger education system to 
provide opportunity and prevent crime, instead of spending money on 
building prisons.]

    Mr. King. Are we too much one way?
    The President. Well, I think it is a terrible mistake to neglect 
education funding in favor of building prisons. On the other hand, you 
still have to have strong criminal justice laws. The crime rate is going 
down in almost every State in the country----
    Mr. King. Prison's the answer?
    The President. The murder rate is going down. It's not the only 
answer, but some people need to be sent to prison. Now, when we passed 
the crime bill last year, in addition to providing for ``three strikes 
and you're out'' and more funds to help States build prisons, we also 
gave the States and the communities of our country a good deal of money 
to promote prevention through education, through community activities 
and recreation, to give our young people something to say yes to.
    And in addition to that, our administration has worked very hard to 
give the States and the schools of this country and the young people of 
this country more educational opportunities, everything from getting 
kids off to a better start in school, to giving the school districts 
money for smaller classes, more computers, higher standards, to more 
scholarships and national service opportunities to pay for college 
education, to many, many more low-cost, easier repayment college loans.
    Mr. King. So it doesn't have to be either/or?
    The President. It's not either/or. We have to be tough on crime, but 
we have to be smart about prevention and we have to continue to invest 
in education. You know, we've got 7\1/2\ million new jobs in this 
country and an economic explosion by conventional measures, but half the 
people are still working harder for no raise. And the reason is 
education. We have got to increase the skill level. So I agree with the 
questioner.
    You know, in California the cost of education has been increased so 
much and the funding decreased, that enrollment here has gone down in 
colleges by 10 percent at a time when it ought to be exploding. So I do 
want to reverse that, and I do think one of my fundamental obligations 
as President is to help our young people make the most of their own 
lives by getting a good education. And we can't sacrifice that; that is 
the most important thing we can invest in for the future.

1996 Election

    Mr. King. Based on that, are you surprised that Governor Wilson got 
into the Presidential primaries?
    The President. No. I have no opinion about that. Let the Republicans 
pick their nominees. All I'm saying is, my obligation is to try to make 
sure that people like that caller can make the most of their own lives, 
and education is perhaps the critical element of that.
    Mr. King. We have an E-mail question. By the way, do you expect it 
to be Bob Dole? Is that logical?
    The President. I don't know. One of the things I learned is that you 
can't predict, just as nobody predicted that much that I would be 
nominated and elected.
    Mr. King. Correct.
    The President. It's very difficult to predict. I'm going to be 
President, work on being President, and let them make their own 
decision.

NAFTA

    Mr. King. E-mail question. With Mexico in an economic and social 
tailspin, is NAFTA dead or jeopardized?
    The President. No, it's not dead. And because I think Mexico is 
beginning to come back, I think it is not jeopardized. I still believe 
it was the right thing to do.
    Mr. King. Wouldn't change it?
    The President. Yes. And let me tell you why. NAFTA gives us a chance 
to have more access to Mexican markets and not to have a permanent trade 
deficit with Mexico just because their wages are lower than ours. In the 
first year of NAFTA's existence, we had a huge surplus with Mexico and 
generated many thousands of jobs.
    The truth is that the Mexicans expanded too quickly, borrowed too 
much money, and got in trouble. But now, under President Zedillo, 
they're slowly working their way back into a stable situation.
    Over the long run, NAFTA means more opportunities for Americans to 
sell products that bring higher wages to our workers, it means more 
stability in Mexico, it means less illegal

[[Page 1432]]

immigration, it means better partnerships in Mexico and in Canada and 
then throughout Latin America for the long run.
    We have to make these decisions in this period of change not just on 
what might be good next month but on what will be good for America 10 or 
20 or 30 years from now, and I'm convinced that NAFTA and the GATT world 
trade agreement will be very good for America over the long run.

Bosnia

    Mr. King. A report just in, Mr. President, from Reuters, that all 
the factions in Bosnia are going to meet in New York this week. What can 
you tell us?
    The President. We just released that information, I think, from our 
plane. Ambassador Holbrooke, who is handling those negotiations for me, 
has been working very hard. I believe that a combination of factors, 
including the firm resolve of our NATO allies in the United Nations in 
stopping the siege of Sarajevo with the air campaign, some changes on 
the ground there in Bosnia, and the willingness of parties to work with 
Mr. Holbrooke and with our partners in Europe in Russia to get a 
negotiated settlement, give us some hope.
    Now, I want to caution everybody, this is Bosnia, and it's tough.
    Mr. King. Why New York?
    The President. But I feel better than I have in a long time.
    Mr. King. Better getting them on turf here?
    The President. Yes. Well, they're coming to New York, as I 
understand it, in part for the United Nations.
    Mr. King. And since they're here, why not?
    The President. So it is convenient for them, and it is good for us. 
So we'll be working--we talked for a long time today. I talked with the 
Secretary of State and my National Security Adviser and Mr. Holbrooke; 
we had an extended talk and we agreed on what the agenda was going to 
be, and I feel good about the process. But I want to caution the 
American people, this is Bosnia, we've got a long way to go.
    Mr. King. Are you hands-on in this?
    The President. Yes, I've been very involved in it, and I feel that 
we're doing the right thing and we have a chance to put an end to the 
misery and to limit once and for all the possibility that this could 
spread into a wider war that can involve our people.
    Mr. King. This is the Larry King special on Westwood One, if you've 
just joined us, with the President of the United States.
    Spokane, Washington. Hello.

Balanced Budget

[A participant asked if the President could make across-the-board cuts 
in Government spending to balance the budget.]

    Mr. King. Let's knock everything off.
    The President. Well, let me first of all say that we have been doing 
a version of that. When we took the deficit from $290 billion down to 
$160 billion in the first three budgets that I was involved with, the 
first time since President Truman was office that we had a three-year-
in-a-row reduction of the deficit, we eliminated hundreds of programs, 
we cut others, and we cut domestic discretionary spending and defense 
spending in the aggregate and then tried to make our priorities within 
them.
    Now what we're trying to do is to agree on a timetable for going to 
zero, and instead of--we're cutting categories, if you will, as you 
suggest. But within those categories, I still believe we ought to 
preserve our commitment to education, to technology, to research and 
development, to the things that will generate the jobs and the 
opportunities of the future for Americans, because that's an important 
value. But we are doing, in general terms, what you suggest. The reason 
you can't take the politics out of it is because there is so much 
difference between the various Members of Congress and the 
administration on what should and shouldn't be funded. But I do believe 
that what we need is an automatic mechanism to say that if in any year 
we miss our deficit reduction targets, then there will be some sort of 
across-the-board cut.
    Now, that's what we did when I was a Governor, and it worked very 
well. So I'd like to see us make our priority decisions now over the 
next 60 days, and then say if, in these years, these out-years we miss 
it and we have a bigger deficit than we thought, then there ought to be 
some sort of across-the-board shaving so that we can keep faith with the 
American people and take that process out of politics.
    Mr. King. Someone by fax wants to know where you draw the line in 
sand? What would you definitely veto that's a Republican proposal?

[[Page 1433]]

    The President. Well, I have issued a lot of those things. The veto 
threats, if you will, or veto notices, I do not want this balanced 
budget process to be a pretext for destroying our ability to protect 
clean air and clean water. I do not want the balanced budget process to 
lead to massive cuts in our efforts to give our young people a chance to 
make the most of their own lives through education investments.
    And I don't want the balanced budget to be a pretext for really 
hurting the elderly, the disabled, and the poorest children in this 
country with excessive reductions in Medicare and Medicaid just to meet 
the 7-year target and mostly to meet this very large tax cut that 
benefits the upper income people like you and me who really haven't 
asked for it.
    Now, I think we can have a tax cut targeted to the childrearing and 
to education and still balance the budget in a timely fashion. But we 
shouldn't just jerk the rug out from under the health care of the most 
vulnerable people in this country.

Line-Item Veto

    Mr. King. Have you asked Mr. Dole and Mr. Gingrich about the 
conference committee on the line-item veto?
    The President. Oh, repeatedly.
    Mr. King. And what do they say? We have less than a minute because 
I've got to get an on-time break here.
    The President. They basically said that--they said they were for the 
line-item veto, but once I became President and they had the Congress so 
they were in charge of the spending, they didn't want to give me the 
line-item veto.
    Mr. King. So you think there's no doubt it's just deliberate because 
of Bill Clinton? If it were a Republican President, they'd have had it 
done?
    The President. Well, I don't even know if they'd do that. They've 
got the Congress, and so now they like the spending. When they were in 
the minority, they liked the line-item veto. I have been consistent on 
this. I have always believed in the line-item veto. It imposes some 
discipline on the process. It's not a cure-all, but it gives you much 
more discipline.
    Mr. King. This is Larry King. We have more to come. We're going to 
take a break, and then when we come back, more from President Clinton, 
more E-mail, more faxes overseas, in the United States, phone calls, et 
cetera, in this kind of historic town meeting. This in Westwood One, and 
you're listening to Larry King with President Bill Clinton.

[The stations took a commercial break.]

American Justice System

    Mr. King. I guess this is from America Online. This is a question 
from the United Kingdom: Due to the fiasco surrounding the O.J. Simpson 
trial, what's its effect on the American justice system? How do you see 
that trial--they're going into the jury next week?
    The President. Well, I think it depends in part on things that still 
have to happen. But I would hope neither the American people nor our 
friends in the United Kingdom would judge the American justice system 
entirely on this trial, because the facts are so unusual.
    First of all, the trial was televised, which I think contributed to 
the circus-like atmosphere and some of the developments.
    Mr. King. You're opposed to televising?
    The President. Well, I just think that you run a serious risk when 
you do it in a high-profile trial.
    Secondly, you had a very excellent defense, and you've had a lot 
of--in terms of--and they're famous, they're well-known, and they're 
able. And then you had all these extraneous elements coming in that 
don't normally come in a murder trial.
    So I would just say, we should be hesitant to recommend sweeping 
changes in the American justice system based on this trial, which is 
unlike any one in my experience.
    Mr. King. As an Attorney General in--which you were in Arkansas----
    The President. In Arkansas, yes.
    Mr. King. Did you ever have a televised trial?
    The President. Never. And I just think--on balance--I think all 
criminal trials can be heavily covered in the press and then reported on 
by television. But I think on balance, you run the risk of having more 
derailments and distractions if you have televised trials.
    Mr. King. To Tucson, Arizona, for President Clinton. Hello.

Japan-U.S. Relations

[A participant asked about the recent rape of a 12-year-old girl in 
Japan by U.S. military personnel and what effect that would have on 
Japan-U.S. relations.]

[[Page 1434]]

    Mr. King. Yes, we've got problems there, don't we?
    The President. Well, the case obviously has been very traumatic, as 
you would imagine. And it's a much more rare occurrence in Japan, 
unfortunately, than it is here----
    Mr. King. Yes.
    The President. ----unfortunately for us.
    But I would say to you that we will first of all make it clear that 
the United States deeply regrets the incident, that we do not condone 
any misconduct or any abuse of the Japanese people. We think that 
anybody who violates any laws should be treated accordingly.
    But we have been a good partner with Japan. And even though we've 
had some differences over trade matters, for example, when we had to 
have a real conflict over the treatment of automobiles and the auto 
parts, the Japanese are a great democracy and a strong ally for us, and 
our forces have been there now for quite a long time in genuine 
partnership.
    So if they think there's any kind of procedures we ought to take to 
improve things, we obviously are open to that. But I think as long as 
they know that we are not turning a blind eye to this, that we are 
outraged, that our heart goes out to them, they know that we have been a 
good partner and we respect them and we'll continue to be.
    Mr. King. Is Vice President Mondale doing a good job of being up 
front with the Japanese?
    The President. Yes, he's been a terrific Ambassador. I think it's 
fair to say that he has exceeded the expectations even of his biggest 
fans in both showing the Japanese that we are deeply committed to our 
friendship and partnership with them and that we respect them in every 
way but that there must be some changes in our trading relationship. He 
has been very tough and very strong and, at the same time, very 
supportive of them. He's struck just the right balance.

First Lady's Trip to China

    Mr. King. Hillary's decision to go to Beijing--her own?
    The President. Well, it was a decision that we made together. I 
strongly felt that she ought to go. Everybody said that it was bad 
politics--the people who said that if she went it would be condoning 
their human rights record and then if she went and said it was strong, 
that she would upset our developing relationship with the Chinese.
    But I felt that she has invested so much of her life in the welfare 
of women and children in our country and then around the world, and I 
thought that she could speak for our American values and about 
conditions that exist, not only in China but in other countries, even 
here in the United States, that are bad for the future of women and 
little girls--that it would be a good thing.
    And I think now everyone sees that it was a wonderful thing for our 
country and for the cause of freedom and human rights around the world.

Equal Access to Technology

    Mr. King. From America Online: I'm sitting in an office in the 
middle of our farmyard in the middle of North Dakota. The information 
highway is open to us, but the long-distance charges are much too heavy. 
Can we expect equal access for rural America in the future?
    The President. Great question. That is one of the things that we 
have worked very hard on. The Vice President and I strongly feel that 
we've got to have equal and affordable access, whether people are 
isolated in rural areas or whether they are low-income people in inner-
cities or whether they're small business people or people in schools and 
hospitals and libraries.
    And so one of the things that we're looking for, for example, in 
this telecommunications bill is a bill that will guarantee genuine 
competition to bring prices down and the quality and variety of services 
up. Rural America actually is in a position perhaps to benefit more than 
any other part of America by putting America into the information 
superhighway because you can bring all--everything to the smallest rural 
hamlet in North Dakota or in North Arkansas. But equal access is a big 
issue. It's going to be a big issue in the telecommunications bill, and 
it will continue to be a big issue for us.
    And I do believe the answer to your question is, I think this will 
be like all technology. I think the more of it there is, and the more 
competition there is, the lower your prices will be.

Media Ownership Restrictions

    Mr. King. In that regard, this legislation might remove all 
ownership restrictions for radio and

[[Page 1435]]

television, meaning we could own anything in any amount. Do you favor 
it?
    The President. No. Now there are restrictions now on how many--what 
percentage of the national television stations you can own--it's at 35 
percent, I think--but the present bill has no restrictions in local 
markets. For example, in any----
    Mr. King. You could own five stations.
    The President. Well, no, you could own two television stations, the 
radio stations, and the town newspaper.
    Mr. King. You're against that.
    The President. I'm against that. You might say, well, look at Los 
Angeles, we have so many television stations, but most places have three 
television stations, a handful of radio stations, and one newspaper. And 
I just think that's too much. So I think the local concentration 
provisions ought to be changed before they send the bill to me.

Media Responsibility

    Mr. King. You got into criticizing Calvin Klein. Any change of heart 
in that regard?
    The President. No. I want to emphasize this: I have no judgment 
about whether whatever they did violated the law. That's not the 
question.
    The point I was trying to make--Calvin Klein are not the only people 
who do this--but let me just say, here's the situation in America: The 
crime rate's coming down, and the murder rate's coming down. Drug use by 
people 18 to 34 is coming down. But violent crime among people between 
the ages of 12 and 17 is going up, casual drug use between--about people 
between 12 and 17 is going up.
    And these young people, in their most vulnerable years, trying to 
come to grips with their physical developments, with their intellectual 
challenges, where the world may seem bewildering to them, I just don't 
think they ought to be used as commercial objects. I don't think you 
ought to put teenagers out there selling jeans where you show their 
underwear. And basically, you send a message to all these kids out there 
that are struggling to try to come to grips with the world that what's 
really important is how they look in jeans and whether they can show 
their underwear and whether they can basically be sex objects when 
they're teenagers. I just think it's wrong.
    And it was an emotional, visceral reaction on my part. It has 
nothing to do with the law. I just think it's wrong. And I think the 
American people are going to have to reassert some things are 
important--more important than commerce, and the welfare of children is 
one of them.
    Mr. King. And speaking of nothing to do with the law, was Senator 
Dole also right in his criticism of what some of the things Hollywood 
turns out? And I know you're supported here very well--tonight there's 
going to be a gala with a lot of those people there.
    The President. Yes, but I think that the general comments he made 
were correct; the specific ones I don't have a judgment about. That is, 
the general thrust of saying that we need more sensitivity on the part 
of everybody in our culture--all the cultural influences in society, not 
just movies and not just records but all cultural influences in terms of 
the welfare of our children and their future, I think that is accurate.
    Now, having said that, let me remind you that this was an issue that 
I raised before when I was Governor in the 1992 campaign. In '93, 
instead of attacking Hollywood, I came to Hollywood and challenged the 
people here--and in television, which I think is a bigger problem just 
because kids watch more of it--to join with me in trying to deal with 
this issue. And one of the things that came out of that meeting--and I 
want to compliment the networks on this--I think the major networks and 
I believe Fox was involved with this--commissioned UCLA to do an annual 
study of the violent content of television programs. And UCLA recently 
issued their first report. So that's something positive that the 
networks are doing. Now we'll have to see--will they act on those 
reports.
    Mr. King. But again, you don't want laws.
    The President. No, I'm not interested in censorship. What I'm 
interested in is asking all of us in American society to be accountable 
for what we do. You can't say the first amendment makes you 
unaccountable. The more freedom you have, the more responsibility you 
have to exercise, in any area of life.
    And I think these things should become open for public debate, not 
because we want to gag people with laws, not because we want to be 
unrealistic but because our children, large numbers of our children are 
in deep trouble, and we all ought to be trying to rescue as many

[[Page 1436]]

of them as we can and give them a good start in life.
    Mr. King. This is Westwood One. You're listening to Larry King with 
President Bill Clinton.

[The stations took a commercial break.]

    Q. Hello, Mr. President. My name is Brandon Kaplan, and I'm 6 years 
old. And I want to know how I can become President.
    Mr. King. Okay. All right. Thanks for calling, kid.
    The President. Brandon, I'd say you're off to a good start just the 
way you handled the question. I want to compliment you for calling in 
and----
    Mr. King. By the way, it's appropriate because the President planned 
on being President when he was 6.
    The President. That's not so.
    Mr. King. [Inaudible]--directly to him.
    The President. It's not so, but it's not too soon for you to think 
about it. I think you should--I would give you just a little simple 
advice. Number one, I think you should devote yourself to learning as 
much as you can in school. Study hard. Learn as much as you can in 
school. Develop your mind.
    Number two, I think you should try to make friends with and 
understand all different kinds of people because in a democracy like 
America, many different kinds of people make up our country and get to 
vote.
    And number three, when you're old enough, I think you should start 
to work for people you believe in in elections and learn how the 
election system works. So I would do those things.
    If you like people and you understand them, if you learn a lot in 
school and you develop your mind, and then you understand how the 
political system works, you might grow up to be President.
    Mr. King. Caller from Scotland, hello.

Native Americans

[A participant asked what the U.S. Government was doing to redress the 
grievances of Native Americans.]

    Mr. King. Have we redressed that grievance?
    The President. Well, it's interesting that you would ask that 
because I have--our administration has spent a great deal of time with 
the Native American tribes. And we now recognize in our country a 
government-to-government relationship with the American Indian tribes. 
We are trying to do things that recognize their integrity, that 
recognize their right to exist, their right to make many autonomous 
decisions, and that give them more support in trying to become more 
independent and to overcome some of the economic and other problems they 
have.
    As a matter of fact, I invited the heads of all the American Indian 
tribes to the White House, and I was the first President since James 
Monroe in the 1820's to do that. So we are working on having the right 
kind of relationship with the Native Americans, and I think we're making 
some good progress. And I hope we won't see that progress reversed in 
this Congress.

[The stations took a commercial break.]

Medicare

    Mr. King. Before we take the next call, if we can capsulize it, 
what's happening today with Medicare? It seems to change daily.
    The President. Well, essentially, here's what's happened. I 
presented a balanced budget that balanced the budget in 10 years and had 
a smaller but still sizable tax cut than the Republican congressional 
cut. Mine was basically targeted to middle income people to help them 
raise their kids and to deduct the cost of education after high school.
    They presented a 7 year balanced budget with a $250 billion tax cut 
and then basically made an arbitrary decision that they had to cut 
Medicare and Medicaid. Together, they had to reduce that spending by 
$450 billion over the next 7 years.
    With regard to Medicare, the problem with that is if you try to 
reduce it that much you either have to take so much out of the hospitals 
and doctors and other Medicare providers that you run the risk that they 
won't stay in the program or can't stay afloat, or you have to 
excessively increase premiums and copays and other costs for seniors. 
And keep in mind, three-quarters of our seniors live on less than 
$24,000 a year.
    So what I am trying to do is to find some common ground with the 
Republicans to say we have to bail out the Medicare Trust Fund and 
lengthen its life. We have to slow the rate of medical inflation, but 
your cuts are simply too big and will cost too much hardship for the 
seniors of this country or to the health care system.

[[Page 1437]]

    Mr. King. Are they going to change them?
    The President. Well, we're trying to find a way to work through to 
an agreement. There are lots of possibilities, and you know, the details 
are probably too complicated to go into here now. But that's basically 
the difference between us. And I'm working hard to--because Medicare is 
a program that has integrity, it works, but it needs to be preserved for 
the future.
    Mr. King. May I ask if you are confident that we're going to see a 
compromised Medicare bill?
    The President. I believe the chances are 50/50 or slightly better 
that we will ultimately reach a good faith agreement which balances the 
budget, preserves the integrity of Medicare and Medicaid, increases our 
investment in our children's future, and protects our environment. I 
think that--because those are all American values we need to all 
advance.

President's Trip

[A participant asked if the President's current trip to nine cities was 
a Presidential trip or a campaign trip.]

    Mr. King. In other words, what is this?
    The President. Oh, well, it's not hidden. I mean, at night I've been 
doing----
    Mr. King. Campaigning. Or raising money.
    The President. Yes, I've been doing fundraisers, and I've made 
addresses. But even the speeches I've given at my fundraisers have been 
reasonably nonpolitical, and then I'm mostly trying to explain to the 
American people what I think we are going through right now and how I 
think we need to embrace new ideas based on old-fashioned American 
values and try to come together. I am really doing my best to see the 
American people go beyond partisanship to reach some common ground.
    Mr. King. Does the party pay, then, for part of this trip?
    The President. Well, my campaign pays for all--if I do anything 
political, my campaign pays 100 percent of it. The taxpayers can't pay 
for it. They don't pay for it.
    Mr. King. So even if you work 5 hours and you do politics 6 hours, 
politics pays?
    The President. That's correct. Unless I take a separate and distinct 
trip that is solely for the purpose of dealing with an issue before my 
job. Like the other day, for example, I flew to Colorado to do a 
fundraiser. My campaign paid for that. I left and went to another small 
town that was completely an educational event, and that was a public 
part of my job.

[The stations took a commercial break.]

President's Leadership Abilities

[A participant asked what the President had learned about leadership 
since his election.]

    Mr. King. What have you learned? Good question.
    The President. Well, I think the most significant thing I have 
learned is that the President--being President and being an effective 
President and a good leader for our country is about more than actually 
what you accomplish. It's about more than the bills you pass in Congress 
or the executive actions you take. It's also about the words that you 
say and how you say them.
    And I have learned that, for example, the President has to be much 
more careful, much more clear, much more unambiguous than, for example, 
a Governor can in discussing an issue. And I am much more, I think, 
sensitive to the impact of my words and the way the decisions are made 
and the way they are communicated to the American people since 
Washington is so far from Boulder, Colorado, and all the other places 
that have called in today. And I think that giving the American people 
the understanding that we're making the decisions based on my 
convictions about American values, even though I know some of my 
decisions, whether it's to go into Haiti or to take on the NRA over the 
assault weapons ban or to take on the cigarette companies on teen 
smoking, may be wildly unpopular in the short run--I am trying to do 
things that are good for the long run.
    And I think I have to communicate to the American people clearly 
what the basic values are that animate my decisions and why I'm doing 
this even though it may be unpopular because I think it will be good for 
the country over the long run. And that's a real lesson I had to learn, 
because when you're Governor, being Governor is more about whether you 
accomplish things and what you actually do in terms of the day-to-day 
work. Now, that's very important for a President, but very often it's 
almost impossible for people even to keep up with that until the 
election starts. So I've learned that. And if I were to win another 
term, I would try constantly, because I believe we're in a period of 
historic change, as I said earlier, to bring

[[Page 1438]]

the American people together around shared values and a willingness to 
take bold steps and embrace new ideas even if they seem to be unpopular 
in the moment.

1996 Election

    Mr. King. By the way, you will be participating in many debates in 
this campaign? We can count on it.
    The President. Oh, yes, you know, I--you can. I believe the 
President should be accountable, and I think debates are a good way to 
do it. So I've always been willing to do that.

Proposed Special Education Cuts

[A mother of two special-needs children voiced her concern over proposed 
cuts in special education.]

    The President. Basically I would be opposed to those changes. Our 
education budget preserves the commitment to special-needs children. My 
Domestic Policy Adviser, Carol Rasco, has a child who is almost--about 
grown now. But he had cerebral palsy. I've known him since he was 5. And 
I watched him come up through our public schools and develop and flower 
and get to the point where he could live in his own apartment. My 
college roommate for 4 years adopted a special-needs child. And I 
watched that child grow and flower. And I think the commitment of our 
Nation to let every child live up to the fullest of his or her own 
ability is something that we should not abandon. And we do not have to 
abandon it to balance the budget.

Tobacco Industry

    Q. Hello. How are you?
    Mr. King. Fine.
    The President. Fine.

[The participant asked about the influence of the tobacco industry on 
future legislation.]

    The President. Well, as you know, I believe the tobacco industry has 
made two great mistakes in the last several years. First of all, it is 
now clear that at least a couple of the big companies have been aware 
for years that tobacco was both addictive and harmful and that it was 
concealed. And secondly, it is clear that many of the tobacco companies 
definitely market to teenagers to get more customers because they lose 
customers every year even though it's illegal to sell cigarettes to 
teenagers, I think, in every State in the country.
    So I would like to see a firm effort against teen smoking. I don't 
really care, as I made it clear, whether the FDA does it or whether the 
Congress does it by law. But if the Congress does it by law, I expect 
them to adopt all the restrictions in substance that we have 
recommended.
    Now, many Congressmen are very loath to take on the tobacco 
companies because they are very wealthy, they have massive informational 
capacity to communicate to smokers, they have the ability to incite, 
inflame, and terrify the tobacco farmers who are really good, old-
fashioned American hard-working people but who can be frightened by the 
tobacco companies. And so they do have a lot of influence, and frankly, 
all my political advisers told me that it was bad politics to take on 
the tobacco companies and there was a reason why no other living 
President had ever done it and that it was dangerous.
    But we had evidence that for 30 years companies had known that 
tobacco was addictive and dangerous and that 3,000 kids start smoking a 
day and 1,000 kids will have their lives ended sooner because of it. So 
if we can save 1,000 kids a day, that's worth a lot of political damage 
to me. I think it's the right thing to do, and I hope they won't have so 
much influence in Congress that they will try to undermine this 
important effort.
    Mr. King. Should it come under the FDA?
    The President. It should come under the FDA unless Congress is 
willing to write these requirements into law. Now, the FDA itself, Dr. 
Kessler said he didn't care about regulating tobacco. If Congress would 
take the things we want to do and put it into law, the FDA would lose 
jurisdiction. They wouldn't be able to do it on an ongoing basis, but 
the benefit we would get is then the move against teen smoking would 
begin right away whereas tobacco companies can tie us up in court for a 
while otherwise.
    So the FDA head, Dr. Kessler, has said that he will do it either 
way. But he would gladly give up jurisdiction to the Congress if, but 
only if, the Congress would take the same tough stand that we have 
recommended.

[[Page 1439]]

Agriculture

[A participant asked how agreements such as NAFTA or GATT would affect 
American agriculture.]

    Mr. King. Well, we're all over the board today.
    The President. I believe on balance that both NAFTA and GATT will be 
a major boon to American agriculture. I was just out in California 
meeting with a lot of farmers there. And virtually all of them talked 
about how much stronger agriculture was as a result of it.
    With regard to NAFTA and Mexico, some of our livestock people have 
been concerned about how NAFTA would play and whether it would hurt 
them. With the GATT agreement, which is a worldwide trade agreement, 
there's no question that our farmers will be better off because other 
countries subsidize their farmers more than we subsidize ours. So if 
everybody has to reduce subsidies to an equal basis, American farmers 
will come out way ahead because we have the best, most competitive, most 
productive farmers in the world.
    If we can get a decent farm bill out of the Congress, that is, one 
that continues to reduce the cost of the farm programs but doesn't take 
us out of global competition and doesn't really wreck the family farm, 
then I think the future of agriculture is bright. In fact, I think we 
may have seen a bottoming out of the number of farmers. We may see the 
same or even a larger number of farms in the years ahead because global 
population would probably outstrip the ability of other countries to 
produce food.
    So farming should do very well in America for the next 20 or 30 
years if we have a good farm bill and if these trade agreements are 
faithfully followed by all the countries.

Unabomber

[A participant questioned the decision to publish the Unabomber's tract 
in newspapers.]

    Mr. King. What did you think of what the Post and Times did?
    The President. Well, first of all----
    Mr. King. I might add, the FBI praised them today.
    The President. Yes. Just for the reason that the caller said, I 
thought it took a lot of real courage on the part of the Post and Times 
to do what they did because our country has basically taken a very hard 
line in not cooperating with terrorists of any kind, not being 
blackmailed and not being subject to blackmail.
    The FBI recommended to the Attorney General, and she recommended to 
the Post and Times, after careful consideration, that they publish this 
for two reasons. One is they really felt, based on the best 
psychological profile they had of the Unabomber, that he would honor his 
commitment and stop killing people, stop trying to kill people. And 
secondly, they felt that the publication of the document, if it could be 
widely read, might actually help Federal authorities who have been 
looking for this person for nearly 20 years now, to identify a range of 
potential suspects.
    And they thought that this was not like, you know, like asking for a 
million dollars or asking to swap hostages or anything like that. There 
were no people involved. So it was for that reason, with great 
reluctance, that the FBI recommended, that the Attorney General 
recommended, and that the Times and the Post did it.
    Mr. King. And you agree with it?
    The President. I do agree with it under these circumstances. It is a 
tough call. I sympathize with the comments of the gentleman that just 
called in. Our basic policy is strictly to not cooperate with terrorists 
of any kind. But under these circumstances, this narrow case, I think 
the Post and the Times did the right thing. And I appreciate the risks 
that they took with their journalistic integrity and with their 
principles to try to save lives and help us to finish this case.

Colin Powell

    Mr. King. One other quick fax in a closing question. Do you plan to 
read Colin Powell's book? You're an avid reader.
    The President. You know, I was kind of hoping he'd send me an 
autographed copy. I haven't gotten one yet, but I was kind of hoping he 
would.
    Mr. King. He's autographed every other one in America. He might as 
well send one to you. By the way, would you--I know this happened once 
with Mr. Gingrich in New Hampshire. Would you sit down with Colin Powell 
and Ross Perot and others who are critical and semi-critical----
    The President. Yes.

[[Page 1440]]

    Mr. King. I know you like--discussions in the White House.
    The President. Everything, as you--Mr. McLarty, my special 
Counselor, pointed out at Ross Perot's convention, we have done almost 
everything he said ought to be done in the '92 campaign. And all of the 
comments that General Powell has made so far with regard to the issues 
of the day, including our efforts to deal with assault weapons and the 
Brady bill, have been supportive of our position.
    Mr. King. Do you think he's a Democrat at heart?
    The President. Well, I think at heart he's kind of a new Democrat. I 
think he probably is trying--would like to see the country take 
generally the direction that I've tried to advocate. But I don't know 
that because we've never discussed anything about domestic policy other 
than what he said. I've talked to him a lot about foreign policy 
matters----
    Mr. King. ----him to be Vice President? Or was that one of many?
    The President. No, no, that's true. It was one of many, but we did. 
He was one of the people that I thought that should be considered based 
on what I knew about him. And there were many that we thought about, and 
I thought he should be.
    Mr. King. Any closing comments on this kind of thing we did here 
today? Could do more of it?
    The President. I'd really like to do more of it. I want to thank all 
of the people who called, all the people who sent their faxes, all the 
people that used America Online, and the E-mail and everything. I 
thought it was great.
    Mr. King. It was great having you with us.
    The President. Thank you.

Note: The interview began at 3:30 p.m. at Westwood One Radio Studio. In 
his remarks, the President referred to Bill Gates, chairman of the 
board, Microsoft Corp.