    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1995, Book II)]
    [September 21, 1995]
    [Pages 1427-1440]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Larry King in Culver City, California
    September 21, 1995

    President's Trip

        Mr. King. Thank you for joining us. This is a campaign trip or a
    Presidential trip?
        The President. Well, a little of both.
        Mr. King. Why so early?
        The President. Because we have to get out now and raise our funds.
    And if I can do it in a regular, disciplined way, then I can maintain as
    much time as possible for my job even next year when the election
    begins.
        Mr. King. Is it hard to run a country and run for office?
        The President. It is if you have to do it full-time. And I just
    determined that the best thing to do would be to try to handle the
    fundraising in a regular way this year and try to get it out of the way
    so I could spend as much time as possible being President next year and
    defer the campaign as long as possible.
        Mr. King. Oh, so next year the campaign is going to come late to
    you.
        The President. Well, it depends what happens. But what I'd like to
    do is to work as much as I can. Even on this trip we've done several
    official things. This morning I was up in San Francisco with 19
    executives of major information firms announcing that we were going to
    provide computer hookups for all the schools in California over the next
    couple of years and challenging the rest of the country to follow the
    lead. And over the next few weeks, I'll be trying to put together a
    national plan for this sort of thing. We know we can get computers in
    all of the schools, and if we can get the teachers trained, have good
    software, we're going to do very well, indeed.
        Mr. King. Was Bill Gates there?
        The President. He was not, although I know him quite well, and I
    expect that he will be very supportive of this.
        Mr. King. Because he said recently on a show we did on television
    that he would be very supportive.
        Mr. President. Yes, he--I know him quite well, and we've talked
    about this extensively. But he couldn't come today. We had lots and lots
    of other people there. There's a great feeling that California ought to
    lead the way because the State is now only 45th in students--computers
    per student--but they have the--they're the technological leader of the
    world. So I'm encouraged by it. It's a very exciting thing.

    [[Page 1428]]

    1996 Election

        Mr. King. All right. This is the audience's show, but let's cover
    some bases right up front. When are you going to announce?
        The President. Don't know.
        Mr. King. This is just pro forma, right?
        The President. It's a pro forma thing. Everyone knows I intend to
    run again. And again, I would like to put it off as long as possible.
    I----
        Mr. King. Because?
        The President. Because there is so much work that needs to be done.
    In the next 60 days, in the working out of this budget, we're going to
    define in some measure what our country is going to be like for the next
    several years. And I just want to continue to focus on the substance of
    the changes we ought to make and the values we ought to put up front in
    protecting families and individuals and trying to bring our country
    together and give people a chance to make the most of their own lives
    and try to write that into the budget. And I think the less politics,
    the less partisanship we have, the better off we're going to be.
        Mr. King. And Al Gore will run again, too?
        The President. He will unless he decides not to. I think--you know,
    he's plainly the most influential and effective Vice President in the
    history of the country, what he's done with technology, what he's done
    with the environment, what he has done with reinventing the Government.
    We have done more than any previous administration, Republican or
    Democratic, to shrink the size of Government, reduce regulation, and
    basically make Government more entrepreneurial. And he's led that
    effort. And of course, he's been the leading voice in what we've done in
    foreign policy as well. So I'm looking forward to running with him, and
    I like working with him.
        Mr. King. A few areas. I don't even have to ask a question, I just
    say a name. Colin Powell--what do you make of it?
        The President. Well, as you know, I've worked with him and I like
    him and I think he's got a very compelling life story and he's a very
    appealing man. And I think his book will do very well. I have no idea
    what he's going to do, and I can't--I don't really have any influence
    over it. So what I have to do is----
        Mr. King. You have to think about it, though. I mean, the polls
    coming out that he's doing great and----
        The President. Believe it or not--well, and you would expect that. I
    mean, he's a very impressive man, and he's gotten a lot of very
    favorable publicity, much of it very well deserved. And so that's just a
    part of it.
        But I have no control over that. What I have to do is to do the job
    the people gave me. And I really believe, in the world we're living in,
    with so much change going on and people being bombarded from all sides
    with so much information, people like me who are in office should not
    worry so much about being popular. We ought to do what we think is right
    for the long run and then hope--believe the election can be our friend.
    Because only when the election starts do people really begin to focus on
    it.

    Public's Mistrust of Government

        Mr. King. Are you, though, concerned about this apparent feeling in
    the country--Powell said it the other night on my television show--a
    plague on both the Houses, the Democrats, the Republicans. Bill Bradley
    is a classic example--he leaves the Senate. What's going on? Both
    parties seem to be in disfavor.
        The President. Well, I think they're in disfavor right now because
    the American people have seen them fighting in the Congress and they've
    seen few results since the last election and because in the previous
    election they didn't understand what results had actually occurred. But
    if you look at the facts--first, I think there's a good chance that we
    will get a budget agreement that will both balance the budget, which
    both parties want, but which will preserve our fundamental obligations
    to our children in terms of education and technology in the future----
        Mr. King. And that will change the feelings?
        The President. ----and to the elderly in terms of having--reducing
    the rate at which Medicare and Medicaid grow but still not really
    hurting a lot of the older people of the country. If we get a good
    balanced budget, if we can get a decent welfare reform bill, if the
    people see the system working, then I think they will not have such
    negative feelings about both parties.
        But I also believe, in fairness, that the Democratic Party has done
    a lot of things that most Americans never thought they would. I mean,
    the Democrats took the lead alone in reducing

    [[Page 1429]]

    the deficit from $290 billion to $160 billion a year. They passed a
    crime bill that increased the death penalty but also invested more in
    prevention, that had ``three strikes and you're out'' but also put
    100,000 police on the street. The crime rate is going down in every
    State in the country. The murder rate is down. The only----
        Mr. King. So why are we upset?
        The President. Well, because we still have troubles and because it's
    an unsettling time. If you look at what's happened all over the world,
    you've got this global economy that's going from an information society
    to a technology and--I mean, it's going from an industrial society to a
    technology and informational economy----
        Mr. King. Look at all this here tonight.
        The President. Yes. And you--look at all this, yes. And you've got--
    people are going to be faxing us; they're going to be E-mailing us;
    they're going to be doing all this stuff on the Internet. We don't have
    the cold war anymore, with nation-states organized in roughly two
    different camps. We've got instead a global economy. And the good news
    is you've got economic integration. The bad news is there's all this
    pressure for unsettling people's lives, whether it's people being less
    secure in their jobs or working harder for less or being subject to
    smaller fanatic groups who practice destruction like the sarin gas
    attack in the Tokyo subway or the Oklahoma City bombing or a bus blowing
    up in Israel.
        So it's a time of great ferment and upheaval where there are a lot
    of wonderful things going on and a lot of very troubling things going
    on. And the United States has--our job now, all of us in positions of
    authority and all of our citizens, is to embrace new ideas and change to
    try to create a new economy in which we can grow the middle class and
    shrink the under class, to try to create a social policy which rewards
    work and family and freedom and responsibility and to try to give us a
    different kind of Government that's more entrepreneurial and less
    bureaucratic but helps people solve their own problems.
        Now, this has only happened--the last time this happened to this
    extent was 100 years ago. This is a 100-year change period we're going
    through. And it is not surprising in a period like this that people
    would be looking around at all their options because they think there
    are so many balls up in the air.
        Mr. King. So, therefore, come independent candidates and disfavor
    and people leaving politics.
        The President. Yes. And not only that, if you've got--look, if you
    go home at night and you've got 40 channels on television, and they say,
    which would you rather have, three parties or two, you'd say three. And
    if you ask five or four, they might say five.
        But I think that if this system that we have, which has made us the
    oldest democracy in human history, the longest lasting one, if it
    produces a balanced budget with a commitment to our children and our
    future and being decent to the seniors on Medicare and Medicaid, if it
    produces welfare reform that promotes work and responsibility without
    hurting innocent children, if it shows that it can come to grips with
    the fundamental challenges of the time, then it will generate more
    support. If it doesn't solve the problems, then it won't. It's pretty
    simple.

    1996 Election

        Mr. King. Would you welcome an independent candidate? Is that good
    for the mix?
        The President. I think it----
        Mr. King. You ran against it last time.
        The President. I did. And I think it all depends. I think it depends
    on who the candidate is, what the person says, what the issues are. But
    the main----
        Mr. King. What Powell would be for?
        The President. Yes.
        Mr. King. Could we elect a black President? Are we ready?
        The President. Oh, I think the American people--I would hope the
    American people would judge any candidate based on his or her merits,
    without regard to race or gender. That's what I hope, and that's the
    America I've worked for all my life. If you look at my appointments, if
    you look at the policies I've pursued, that's the America I've worked
    for.
        But I think--again, I will say it takes almost all the concentration
    I can muster every day to do the job I was hired to do. And that's what
    I'm going to work on.
        Mr. King. But you love it.
        The President. I love it. I love working every day.
        Mr. King. You told me once, ``My bad days are good days.''
        The President. Yes, because of--it is an incredible gift, with all
    the difficulties, to be given

    [[Page 1430]]

    the opportunity to meet these challenges. And as I said, I honestly
    believe, when the history of this era is written people will say this
    was the period of the biggest change in the way we work and live in 100
    years. So who could not be grateful to do that for a day, a week, a
    month, 4 years? If I get 8 years, that's so much the better. I'm working
    hard at it.

    Welfare Reform

        Mr. King. We're going to turn it over to the public. Are you going
    to sign off on this welfare bill?
        The President. It depends on what it looks like. The Senate bill--I
    still have a few problems with the Senate bill. But it basically is
    much, much better. They took a lot of the extreme, kind of right-wing
    ideological things out of it. They've put in a bonus for moving people
    to work. They require people to sign personal responsibility contracts.
    They've put in a lot more funds for child care so people can go to work
    and still be good parents. These are all ideas that I have been pressing
    a long time. So I like it.
        It really would end welfare as we know it. And I think we can make
    it--if we can make it a little better in conference, I'll be happy to
    sign it. If they make it a lot worse, they could kill it. I think it
    wouldn't even get back to the Senate again.
        Mr. King. Right now you're leaning toward yes?
        The President. Well, right now I like a lot of--the changes in the
    Senate bill that were made in the last 2 weeks were very good. If that's
    the direction the Congress is going in, we're going to have a great
    welfare reform proposal. But it still could get off the track. I just
    hope they'll keep going in that direction.
        Mr. King. This is Westwood One. You're listening to Larry King with
    President Bill Clinton.

    [At this point, the stations took a commercial break.]

        Mr. King. Our guest is President Bill Clinton. Granada Hills,
    California. Hello.
        Q. Hello?
        Mr. King. Yes. Go right ahead.

    The Environment

    [A participant asked what the administration had done to help the
    environment.]

        Mr. King. Did you hear that clear?
        The President. Yes. What have we done in the last 4 years to help
    the environment?
        Mr. King. We don't hear a lot about Clinton and environment?
        The President. We have, first of all, faithfully advanced the cause
    of the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act. Secondly, we have done a
    great deal to try to promote public health in dealing with problems like
    the cryptosporidium problem that--that was the thing that got into the
    water in Milwaukee that killed all the people. We're trying to deal with
    that.
        Mr. King. Only you would know the actual name.
        The President. We've also tried to improve public health through
    improving the food testing, like dealing with the problems with E. coli
    that caused the deaths from eating the meat.
        Mr. King. Would you say you've kept your promises?
        The President. Oh, absolutely. I have pushed through the California
    Desert Protection Act here, which was the biggest single land protection
    act and that kind of legislation in history. We worked very hard to
    solve the problems of the old-growth forests in the Pacific Northwest--
    which the Congress has kind of messed up now--to get that out of court
    to protect the old-growth forests and to try at the same time to permit
    responsible logging. We reached an accord between the environmentalists
    and the farmers here in this so-called Bay Delta accord, in the farming
    area of California. We have worked to try to reduce the global warming
    and hazardous emissions through working on the clean car project with
    Detroit. We've supported the development of electric cars and natural
    gas-burning cars and other things to promote clean air.
        Those are just some of the many things we've done in the
    environment. And in addition to that, I'm obviously carrying on a
    vigorous fight now to prevent this Congress from using the budget
    process to undermine our ability to stick up for clean air, clean water,
    and the other basic environmental protections of the country.
        Mr. King. Sacramento with President Clinton on Westwood One. Hello?
        Q. Hello. Can you hear me?
        Mr. King. Yes, sure.

    [[Page 1431]]

    Education Funding

    [A participant asked about focusing on a stronger education system to
    provide opportunity and prevent crime, instead of spending money on
    building prisons.]

        Mr. King. Are we too much one way?
        The President. Well, I think it is a terrible mistake to neglect
    education funding in favor of building prisons. On the other hand, you
    still have to have strong criminal justice laws. The crime rate is going
    down in almost every State in the country----
        Mr. King. Prison's the answer?
        The President. The murder rate is going down. It's not the only
    answer, but some people need to be sent to prison. Now, when we passed
    the crime bill last year, in addition to providing for ``three strikes
    and you're out'' and more funds to help States build prisons, we also
    gave the States and the communities of our country a good deal of money
    to promote prevention through education, through community activities
    and recreation, to give our young people something to say yes to.
        And in addition to that, our administration has worked very hard to
    give the States and the schools of this country and the young people of
    this country more educational opportunities, everything from getting
    kids off to a better start in school, to giving the school districts
    money for smaller classes, more computers, higher standards, to more
    scholarships and national service opportunities to pay for college
    education, to many, many more low-cost, easier repayment college loans.
        Mr. King. So it doesn't have to be either/or?
        The President. It's not either/or. We have to be tough on crime, but
    we have to be smart about prevention and we have to continue to invest
    in education. You know, we've got 7\1/2\ million new jobs in this
    country and an economic explosion by conventional measures, but half the
    people are still working harder for no raise. And the reason is
    education. We have got to increase the skill level. So I agree with the
    questioner.
        You know, in California the cost of education has been increased so
    much and the funding decreased, that enrollment here has gone down in
    colleges by 10 percent at a time when it ought to be exploding. So I do
    want to reverse that, and I do think one of my fundamental obligations
    as President is to help our young people make the most of their own
    lives by getting a good education. And we can't sacrifice that; that is
    the most important thing we can invest in for the future.

    1996 Election

        Mr. King. Based on that, are you surprised that Governor Wilson got
    into the Presidential primaries?
        The President. No. I have no opinion about that. Let the Republicans
    pick their nominees. All I'm saying is, my obligation is to try to make
    sure that people like that caller can make the most of their own lives,
    and education is perhaps the critical element of that.
        Mr. King. We have an E-mail question. By the way, do you expect it
    to be Bob Dole? Is that logical?
        The President. I don't know. One of the things I learned is that you
    can't predict, just as nobody predicted that much that I would be
    nominated and elected.
        Mr. King. Correct.
        The President. It's very difficult to predict. I'm going to be
    President, work on being President, and let them make their own
    decision.

    NAFTA

        Mr. King. E-mail question. With Mexico in an economic and social
    tailspin, is NAFTA dead or jeopardized?
        The President. No, it's not dead. And because I think Mexico is
    beginning to come back, I think it is not jeopardized. I still believe
    it was the right thing to do.
        Mr. King. Wouldn't change it?
        The President. Yes. And let me tell you why. NAFTA gives us a chance
    to have more access to Mexican markets and not to have a permanent trade
    deficit with Mexico just because their wages are lower than ours. In the
    first year of NAFTA's existence, we had a huge surplus with Mexico and
    generated many thousands of jobs.
        The truth is that the Mexicans expanded too quickly, borrowed too
    much money, and got in trouble. But now, under President Zedillo,
    they're slowly working their way back into a stable situation.
        Over the long run, NAFTA means more opportunities for Americans to
    sell products that bring higher wages to our workers, it means more
    stability in Mexico, it means less illegal

    [[Page 1432]]

    immigration, it means better partnerships in Mexico and in Canada and
    then throughout Latin America for the long run.
        We have to make these decisions in this period of change not just on
    what might be good next month but on what will be good for America 10 or
    20 or 30 years from now, and I'm convinced that NAFTA and the GATT world
    trade agreement will be very good for America over the long run.

    Bosnia

        Mr. King. A report just in, Mr. President, from Reuters, that all
    the factions in Bosnia are going to meet in New York this week. What can
    you tell us?
        The President. We just released that information, I think, from our
    plane. Ambassador Holbrooke, who is handling those negotiations for me,
    has been working very hard. I believe that a combination of factors,
    including the firm resolve of our NATO allies in the United Nations in
    stopping the siege of Sarajevo with the air campaign, some changes on
    the ground there in Bosnia, and the willingness of parties to work with
    Mr. Holbrooke and with our partners in Europe in Russia to get a
    negotiated settlement, give us some hope.
        Now, I want to caution everybody, this is Bosnia, and it's tough.
        Mr. King. Why New York?
        The President. But I feel better than I have in a long time.
        Mr. King. Better getting them on turf here?
        The President. Yes. Well, they're coming to New York, as I
    understand it, in part for the United Nations.
        Mr. King. And since they're here, why not?
        The President. So it is convenient for them, and it is good for us.
    So we'll be working--we talked for a long time today. I talked with the
    Secretary of State and my National Security Adviser and Mr. Holbrooke;
    we had an extended talk and we agreed on what the agenda was going to
    be, and I feel good about the process. But I want to caution the
    American people, this is Bosnia, we've got a long way to go.
        Mr. King. Are you hands-on in this?
        The President. Yes, I've been very involved in it, and I feel that
    we're doing the right thing and we have a chance to put an end to the
    misery and to limit once and for all the possibility that this could
    spread into a wider war that can involve our people.
        Mr. King. This is the Larry King special on Westwood One, if you've
    just joined us, with the President of the United States.
        Spokane, Washington. Hello.

    Balanced Budget

    [A participant asked if the President could make across-the-board cuts
    in Government spending to balance the budget.]

        Mr. King. Let's knock everything off.
        The President. Well, let me first of all say that we have been doing
    a version of that. When we took the deficit from $290 billion down to
    $160 billion in the first three budgets that I was involved with, the
    first time since President Truman was office that we had a three-year-
    in-a-row reduction of the deficit, we eliminated hundreds of programs,
    we cut others, and we cut domestic discretionary spending and defense
    spending in the aggregate and then tried to make our priorities within
    them.
        Now what we're trying to do is to agree on a timetable for going to
    zero, and instead of--we're cutting categories, if you will, as you
    suggest. But within those categories, I still believe we ought to
    preserve our commitment to education, to technology, to research and
    development, to the things that will generate the jobs and the
    opportunities of the future for Americans, because that's an important
    value. But we are doing, in general terms, what you suggest. The reason
    you can't take the politics out of it is because there is so much
    difference between the various Members of Congress and the
    administration on what should and shouldn't be funded. But I do believe
    that what we need is an automatic mechanism to say that if in any year
    we miss our deficit reduction targets, then there will be some sort of
    across-the-board cut.
        Now, that's what we did when I was a Governor, and it worked very
    well. So I'd like to see us make our priority decisions now over the
    next 60 days, and then say if, in these years, these out-years we miss
    it and we have a bigger deficit than we thought, then there ought to be
    some sort of across-the-board shaving so that we can keep faith with the
    American people and take that process out of politics.
        Mr. King. Someone by fax wants to know where you draw the line in
    sand? What would you definitely veto that's a Republican proposal?

    [[Page 1433]]

        The President. Well, I have issued a lot of those things. The veto
    threats, if you will, or veto notices, I do not want this balanced
    budget process to be a pretext for destroying our ability to protect
    clean air and clean water. I do not want the balanced budget process to
    lead to massive cuts in our efforts to give our young people a chance to
    make the most of their own lives through education investments.
        And I don't want the balanced budget to be a pretext for really
    hurting the elderly, the disabled, and the poorest children in this
    country with excessive reductions in Medicare and Medicaid just to meet
    the 7-year target and mostly to meet this very large tax cut that
    benefits the upper income people like you and me who really haven't
    asked for it.
        Now, I think we can have a tax cut targeted to the childrearing and
    to education and still balance the budget in a timely fashion. But we
    shouldn't just jerk the rug out from under the health care of the most
    vulnerable people in this country.

    Line-Item Veto

        Mr. King. Have you asked Mr. Dole and Mr. Gingrich about the
    conference committee on the line-item veto?
        The President. Oh, repeatedly.
        Mr. King. And what do they say? We have less than a minute because
    I've got to get an on-time break here.
        The President. They basically said that--they said they were for the
    line-item veto, but once I became President and they had the Congress so
    they were in charge of the spending, they didn't want to give me the
    line-item veto.
        Mr. King. So you think there's no doubt it's just deliberate because
    of Bill Clinton? If it were a Republican President, they'd have had it
    done?
        The President. Well, I don't even know if they'd do that. They've
    got the Congress, and so now they like the spending. When they were in
    the minority, they liked the line-item veto. I have been consistent on
    this. I have always believed in the line-item veto. It imposes some
    discipline on the process. It's not a cure-all, but it gives you much
    more discipline.
        Mr. King. This is Larry King. We have more to come. We're going to
    take a break, and then when we come back, more from President Clinton,
    more E-mail, more faxes overseas, in the United States, phone calls, et
    cetera, in this kind of historic town meeting. This in Westwood One, and
    you're listening to Larry King with President Bill Clinton.

    [The stations took a commercial break.]

    American Justice System

        Mr. King. I guess this is from America Online. This is a question
    from the United Kingdom: Due to the fiasco surrounding the O.J. Simpson
    trial, what's its effect on the American justice system? How do you see
    that trial--they're going into the jury next week?
        The President. Well, I think it depends in part on things that still
    have to happen. But I would hope neither the American people nor our
    friends in the United Kingdom would judge the American justice system
    entirely on this trial, because the facts are so unusual.
        First of all, the trial was televised, which I think contributed to
    the circus-like atmosphere and some of the developments.
        Mr. King. You're opposed to televising?
        The President. Well, I just think that you run a serious risk when
    you do it in a high-profile trial.
        Secondly, you had a very excellent defense, and you've had a lot
    of--in terms of--and they're famous, they're well-known, and they're
    able. And then you had all these extraneous elements coming in that
    don't normally come in a murder trial.
        So I would just say, we should be hesitant to recommend sweeping
    changes in the American justice system based on this trial, which is
    unlike any one in my experience.
        Mr. King. As an Attorney General in--which you were in Arkansas----
        The President. In Arkansas, yes.
        Mr. King. Did you ever have a televised trial?
        The President. Never. And I just think--on balance--I think all
    criminal trials can be heavily covered in the press and then reported on
    by television. But I think on balance, you run the risk of having more
    derailments and distractions if you have televised trials.
        Mr. King. To Tucson, Arizona, for President Clinton. Hello.

    Japan-U.S. Relations

    [A participant asked about the recent rape of a 12-year-old girl in
    Japan by U.S. military personnel and what effect that would have on
    Japan-U.S. relations.]

    [[Page 1434]]

        Mr. King. Yes, we've got problems there, don't we?
        The President. Well, the case obviously has been very traumatic, as
    you would imagine. And it's a much more rare occurrence in Japan,
    unfortunately, than it is here----
        Mr. King. Yes.
        The President. ----unfortunately for us.
        But I would say to you that we will first of all make it clear that
    the United States deeply regrets the incident, that we do not condone
    any misconduct or any abuse of the Japanese people. We think that
    anybody who violates any laws should be treated accordingly.
        But we have been a good partner with Japan. And even though we've
    had some differences over trade matters, for example, when we had to
    have a real conflict over the treatment of automobiles and the auto
    parts, the Japanese are a great democracy and a strong ally for us, and
    our forces have been there now for quite a long time in genuine
    partnership.
        So if they think there's any kind of procedures we ought to take to
    improve things, we obviously are open to that. But I think as long as
    they know that we are not turning a blind eye to this, that we are
    outraged, that our heart goes out to them, they know that we have been a
    good partner and we respect them and we'll continue to be.
        Mr. King. Is Vice President Mondale doing a good job of being up
    front with the Japanese?
        The President. Yes, he's been a terrific Ambassador. I think it's
    fair to say that he has exceeded the expectations even of his biggest
    fans in both showing the Japanese that we are deeply committed to our
    friendship and partnership with them and that we respect them in every
    way but that there must be some changes in our trading relationship. He
    has been very tough and very strong and, at the same time, very
    supportive of them. He's struck just the right balance.

    First Lady's Trip to China

        Mr. King. Hillary's decision to go to Beijing--her own?
        The President. Well, it was a decision that we made together. I
    strongly felt that she ought to go. Everybody said that it was bad
    politics--the people who said that if she went it would be condoning
    their human rights record and then if she went and said it was strong,
    that she would upset our developing relationship with the Chinese.
        But I felt that she has invested so much of her life in the welfare
    of women and children in our country and then around the world, and I
    thought that she could speak for our American values and about
    conditions that exist, not only in China but in other countries, even
    here in the United States, that are bad for the future of women and
    little girls--that it would be a good thing.
        And I think now everyone sees that it was a wonderful thing for our
    country and for the cause of freedom and human rights around the world.

    Equal Access to Technology

        Mr. King. From America Online: I'm sitting in an office in the
    middle of our farmyard in the middle of North Dakota. The information
    highway is open to us, but the long-distance charges are much too heavy.
    Can we expect equal access for rural America in the future?
        The President. Great question. That is one of the things that we
    have worked very hard on. The Vice President and I strongly feel that
    we've got to have equal and affordable access, whether people are
    isolated in rural areas or whether they are low-income people in inner-
    cities or whether they're small business people or people in schools and
    hospitals and libraries.
        And so one of the things that we're looking for, for example, in
    this telecommunications bill is a bill that will guarantee genuine
    competition to bring prices down and the quality and variety of services
    up. Rural America actually is in a position perhaps to benefit more than
    any other part of America by putting America into the information
    superhighway because you can bring all--everything to the smallest rural
    hamlet in North Dakota or in North Arkansas. But equal access is a big
    issue. It's going to be a big issue in the telecommunications bill, and
    it will continue to be a big issue for us.
        And I do believe the answer to your question is, I think this will
    be like all technology. I think the more of it there is, and the more
    competition there is, the lower your prices will be.

    Media Ownership Restrictions

        Mr. King. In that regard, this legislation might remove all
    ownership restrictions for radio and

    [[Page 1435]]

    television, meaning we could own anything in any amount. Do you favor
    it?
        The President. No. Now there are restrictions now on how many--what
    percentage of the national television stations you can own--it's at 35
    percent, I think--but the present bill has no restrictions in local
    markets. For example, in any----
        Mr. King. You could own five stations.
        The President. Well, no, you could own two television stations, the
    radio stations, and the town newspaper.
        Mr. King. You're against that.
        The President. I'm against that. You might say, well, look at Los
    Angeles, we have so many television stations, but most places have three
    television stations, a handful of radio stations, and one newspaper. And
    I just think that's too much. So I think the local concentration
    provisions ought to be changed before they send the bill to me.

    Media Responsibility

        Mr. King. You got into criticizing Calvin Klein. Any change of heart
    in that regard?
        The President. No. I want to emphasize this: I have no judgment
    about whether whatever they did violated the law. That's not the
    question.
        The point I was trying to make--Calvin Klein are not the only people
    who do this--but let me just say, here's the situation in America: The
    crime rate's coming down, and the murder rate's coming down. Drug use by
    people 18 to 34 is coming down. But violent crime among people between
    the ages of 12 and 17 is going up, casual drug use between--about people
    between 12 and 17 is going up.
        And these young people, in their most vulnerable years, trying to
    come to grips with their physical developments, with their intellectual
    challenges, where the world may seem bewildering to them, I just don't
    think they ought to be used as commercial objects. I don't think you
    ought to put teenagers out there selling jeans where you show their
    underwear. And basically, you send a message to all these kids out there
    that are struggling to try to come to grips with the world that what's
    really important is how they look in jeans and whether they can show
    their underwear and whether they can basically be sex objects when
    they're teenagers. I just think it's wrong.
        And it was an emotional, visceral reaction on my part. It has
    nothing to do with the law. I just think it's wrong. And I think the
    American people are going to have to reassert some things are
    important--more important than commerce, and the welfare of children is
    one of them.
        Mr. King. And speaking of nothing to do with the law, was Senator
    Dole also right in his criticism of what some of the things Hollywood
    turns out? And I know you're supported here very well--tonight there's
    going to be a gala with a lot of those people there.
        The President. Yes, but I think that the general comments he made
    were correct; the specific ones I don't have a judgment about. That is,
    the general thrust of saying that we need more sensitivity on the part
    of everybody in our culture--all the cultural influences in society, not
    just movies and not just records but all cultural influences in terms of
    the welfare of our children and their future, I think that is accurate.
        Now, having said that, let me remind you that this was an issue that
    I raised before when I was Governor in the 1992 campaign. In '93,
    instead of attacking Hollywood, I came to Hollywood and challenged the
    people here--and in television, which I think is a bigger problem just
    because kids watch more of it--to join with me in trying to deal with
    this issue. And one of the things that came out of that meeting--and I
    want to compliment the networks on this--I think the major networks and
    I believe Fox was involved with this--commissioned UCLA to do an annual
    study of the violent content of television programs. And UCLA recently
    issued their first report. So that's something positive that the
    networks are doing. Now we'll have to see--will they act on those
    reports.
        Mr. King. But again, you don't want laws.
        The President. No, I'm not interested in censorship. What I'm
    interested in is asking all of us in American society to be accountable
    for what we do. You can't say the first amendment makes you
    unaccountable. The more freedom you have, the more responsibility you
    have to exercise, in any area of life.
        And I think these things should become open for public debate, not
    because we want to gag people with laws, not because we want to be
    unrealistic but because our children, large numbers of our children are
    in deep trouble, and we all ought to be trying to rescue as many

    [[Page 1436]]

    of them as we can and give them a good start in life.
        Mr. King. This is Westwood One. You're listening to Larry King with
    President Bill Clinton.

    [The stations took a commercial break.]

        Q. Hello, Mr. President. My name is Brandon Kaplan, and I'm 6 years
    old. And I want to know how I can become President.
        Mr. King. Okay. All right. Thanks for calling, kid.
        The President. Brandon, I'd say you're off to a good start just the
    way you handled the question. I want to compliment you for calling in
    and----
        Mr. King. By the way, it's appropriate because the President planned
    on being President when he was 6.
        The President. That's not so.
        Mr. King. [Inaudible]--directly to him.
        The President. It's not so, but it's not too soon for you to think
    about it. I think you should--I would give you just a little simple
    advice. Number one, I think you should devote yourself to learning as
    much as you can in school. Study hard. Learn as much as you can in
    school. Develop your mind.
        Number two, I think you should try to make friends with and
    understand all different kinds of people because in a democracy like
    America, many different kinds of people make up our country and get to
    vote.
        And number three, when you're old enough, I think you should start
    to work for people you believe in in elections and learn how the
    election system works. So I would do those things.
        If you like people and you understand them, if you learn a lot in
    school and you develop your mind, and then you understand how the
    political system works, you might grow up to be President.
        Mr. King. Caller from Scotland, hello.

    Native Americans

    [A participant asked what the U.S. Government was doing to redress the
    grievances of Native Americans.]

        Mr. King. Have we redressed that grievance?
        The President. Well, it's interesting that you would ask that
    because I have--our administration has spent a great deal of time with
    the Native American tribes. And we now recognize in our country a
    government-to-government relationship with the American Indian tribes.
    We are trying to do things that recognize their integrity, that
    recognize their right to exist, their right to make many autonomous
    decisions, and that give them more support in trying to become more
    independent and to overcome some of the economic and other problems they
    have.
        As a matter of fact, I invited the heads of all the American Indian
    tribes to the White House, and I was the first President since James
    Monroe in the 1820's to do that. So we are working on having the right
    kind of relationship with the Native Americans, and I think we're making
    some good progress. And I hope we won't see that progress reversed in
    this Congress.

    [The stations took a commercial break.]

    Medicare

        Mr. King. Before we take the next call, if we can capsulize it,
    what's happening today with Medicare? It seems to change daily.
        The President. Well, essentially, here's what's happened. I
    presented a balanced budget that balanced the budget in 10 years and had
    a smaller but still sizable tax cut than the Republican congressional
    cut. Mine was basically targeted to middle income people to help them
    raise their kids and to deduct the cost of education after high school.
        They presented a 7 year balanced budget with a $250 billion tax cut
    and then basically made an arbitrary decision that they had to cut
    Medicare and Medicaid. Together, they had to reduce that spending by
    $450 billion over the next 7 years.
        With regard to Medicare, the problem with that is if you try to
    reduce it that much you either have to take so much out of the hospitals
    and doctors and other Medicare providers that you run the risk that they
    won't stay in the program or can't stay afloat, or you have to
    excessively increase premiums and copays and other costs for seniors.
    And keep in mind, three-quarters of our seniors live on less than
    $24,000 a year.
        So what I am trying to do is to find some common ground with the
    Republicans to say we have to bail out the Medicare Trust Fund and
    lengthen its life. We have to slow the rate of medical inflation, but
    your cuts are simply too big and will cost too much hardship for the
    seniors of this country or to the health care system.

    [[Page 1437]]

        Mr. King. Are they going to change them?
        The President. Well, we're trying to find a way to work through to
    an agreement. There are lots of possibilities, and you know, the details
    are probably too complicated to go into here now. But that's basically
    the difference between us. And I'm working hard to--because Medicare is
    a program that has integrity, it works, but it needs to be preserved for
    the future.
        Mr. King. May I ask if you are confident that we're going to see a
    compromised Medicare bill?
        The President. I believe the chances are 50/50 or slightly better
    that we will ultimately reach a good faith agreement which balances the
    budget, preserves the integrity of Medicare and Medicaid, increases our
    investment in our children's future, and protects our environment. I
    think that--because those are all American values we need to all
    advance.

    President's Trip

    [A participant asked if the President's current trip to nine cities was
    a Presidential trip or a campaign trip.]

        Mr. King. In other words, what is this?
        The President. Oh, well, it's not hidden. I mean, at night I've been
    doing----
        Mr. King. Campaigning. Or raising money.
        The President. Yes, I've been doing fundraisers, and I've made
    addresses. But even the speeches I've given at my fundraisers have been
    reasonably nonpolitical, and then I'm mostly trying to explain to the
    American people what I think we are going through right now and how I
    think we need to embrace new ideas based on old-fashioned American
    values and try to come together. I am really doing my best to see the
    American people go beyond partisanship to reach some common ground.
        Mr. King. Does the party pay, then, for part of this trip?
        The President. Well, my campaign pays for all--if I do anything
    political, my campaign pays 100 percent of it. The taxpayers can't pay
    for it. They don't pay for it.
        Mr. King. So even if you work 5 hours and you do politics 6 hours,
    politics pays?
        The President. That's correct. Unless I take a separate and distinct
    trip that is solely for the purpose of dealing with an issue before my
    job. Like the other day, for example, I flew to Colorado to do a
    fundraiser. My campaign paid for that. I left and went to another small
    town that was completely an educational event, and that was a public
    part of my job.

    [The stations took a commercial break.]

    President's Leadership Abilities

    [A participant asked what the President had learned about leadership
    since his election.]

        Mr. King. What have you learned? Good question.
        The President. Well, I think the most significant thing I have
    learned is that the President--being President and being an effective
    President and a good leader for our country is about more than actually
    what you accomplish. It's about more than the bills you pass in Congress
    or the executive actions you take. It's also about the words that you
    say and how you say them.
        And I have learned that, for example, the President has to be much
    more careful, much more clear, much more unambiguous than, for example,
    a Governor can in discussing an issue. And I am much more, I think,
    sensitive to the impact of my words and the way the decisions are made
    and the way they are communicated to the American people since
    Washington is so far from Boulder, Colorado, and all the other places
    that have called in today. And I think that giving the American people
    the understanding that we're making the decisions based on my
    convictions about American values, even though I know some of my
    decisions, whether it's to go into Haiti or to take on the NRA over the
    assault weapons ban or to take on the cigarette companies on teen
    smoking, may be wildly unpopular in the short run--I am trying to do
    things that are good for the long run.
        And I think I have to communicate to the American people clearly
    what the basic values are that animate my decisions and why I'm doing
    this even though it may be unpopular because I think it will be good for
    the country over the long run. And that's a real lesson I had to learn,
    because when you're Governor, being Governor is more about whether you
    accomplish things and what you actually do in terms of the day-to-day
    work. Now, that's very important for a President, but very often it's
    almost impossible for people even to keep up with that until the
    election starts. So I've learned that. And if I were to win another
    term, I would try constantly, because I believe we're in a period of
    historic change, as I said earlier, to bring

    [[Page 1438]]

    the American people together around shared values and a willingness to
    take bold steps and embrace new ideas even if they seem to be unpopular
    in the moment.

    1996 Election

        Mr. King. By the way, you will be participating in many debates in
    this campaign? We can count on it.
        The President. Oh, yes, you know, I--you can. I believe the
    President should be accountable, and I think debates are a good way to
    do it. So I've always been willing to do that.

    Proposed Special Education Cuts

    [A mother of two special-needs children voiced her concern over proposed
    cuts in special education.]

        The President. Basically I would be opposed to those changes. Our
    education budget preserves the commitment to special-needs children. My
    Domestic Policy Adviser, Carol Rasco, has a child who is almost--about
    grown now. But he had cerebral palsy. I've known him since he was 5. And
    I watched him come up through our public schools and develop and flower
    and get to the point where he could live in his own apartment. My
    college roommate for 4 years adopted a special-needs child. And I
    watched that child grow and flower. And I think the commitment of our
    Nation to let every child live up to the fullest of his or her own
    ability is something that we should not abandon. And we do not have to
    abandon it to balance the budget.

    Tobacco Industry

        Q. Hello. How are you?
        Mr. King. Fine.
        The President. Fine.

    [The participant asked about the influence of the tobacco industry on
    future legislation.]

        The President. Well, as you know, I believe the tobacco industry has
    made two great mistakes in the last several years. First of all, it is
    now clear that at least a couple of the big companies have been aware
    for years that tobacco was both addictive and harmful and that it was
    concealed. And secondly, it is clear that many of the tobacco companies
    definitely market to teenagers to get more customers because they lose
    customers every year even though it's illegal to sell cigarettes to
    teenagers, I think, in every State in the country.
        So I would like to see a firm effort against teen smoking. I don't
    really care, as I made it clear, whether the FDA does it or whether the
    Congress does it by law. But if the Congress does it by law, I expect
    them to adopt all the restrictions in substance that we have
    recommended.
        Now, many Congressmen are very loath to take on the tobacco
    companies because they are very wealthy, they have massive informational
    capacity to communicate to smokers, they have the ability to incite,
    inflame, and terrify the tobacco farmers who are really good, old-
    fashioned American hard-working people but who can be frightened by the
    tobacco companies. And so they do have a lot of influence, and frankly,
    all my political advisers told me that it was bad politics to take on
    the tobacco companies and there was a reason why no other living
    President had ever done it and that it was dangerous.
        But we had evidence that for 30 years companies had known that
    tobacco was addictive and dangerous and that 3,000 kids start smoking a
    day and 1,000 kids will have their lives ended sooner because of it. So
    if we can save 1,000 kids a day, that's worth a lot of political damage
    to me. I think it's the right thing to do, and I hope they won't have so
    much influence in Congress that they will try to undermine this
    important effort.
        Mr. King. Should it come under the FDA?
        The President. It should come under the FDA unless Congress is
    willing to write these requirements into law. Now, the FDA itself, Dr.
    Kessler said he didn't care about regulating tobacco. If Congress would
    take the things we want to do and put it into law, the FDA would lose
    jurisdiction. They wouldn't be able to do it on an ongoing basis, but
    the benefit we would get is then the move against teen smoking would
    begin right away whereas tobacco companies can tie us up in court for a
    while otherwise.
        So the FDA head, Dr. Kessler, has said that he will do it either
    way. But he would gladly give up jurisdiction to the Congress if, but
    only if, the Congress would take the same tough stand that we have
    recommended.

    [[Page 1439]]

    Agriculture

    [A participant asked how agreements such as NAFTA or GATT would affect
    American agriculture.]

        Mr. King. Well, we're all over the board today.
        The President. I believe on balance that both NAFTA and GATT will be
    a major boon to American agriculture. I was just out in California
    meeting with a lot of farmers there. And virtually all of them talked
    about how much stronger agriculture was as a result of it.
        With regard to NAFTA and Mexico, some of our livestock people have
    been concerned about how NAFTA would play and whether it would hurt
    them. With the GATT agreement, which is a worldwide trade agreement,
    there's no question that our farmers will be better off because other
    countries subsidize their farmers more than we subsidize ours. So if
    everybody has to reduce subsidies to an equal basis, American farmers
    will come out way ahead because we have the best, most competitive, most
    productive farmers in the world.
        If we can get a decent farm bill out of the Congress, that is, one
    that continues to reduce the cost of the farm programs but doesn't take
    us out of global competition and doesn't really wreck the family farm,
    then I think the future of agriculture is bright. In fact, I think we
    may have seen a bottoming out of the number of farmers. We may see the
    same or even a larger number of farms in the years ahead because global
    population would probably outstrip the ability of other countries to
    produce food.
        So farming should do very well in America for the next 20 or 30
    years if we have a good farm bill and if these trade agreements are
    faithfully followed by all the countries.

    Unabomber

    [A participant questioned the decision to publish the Unabomber's tract
    in newspapers.]

        Mr. King. What did you think of what the Post and Times did?
        The President. Well, first of all----
        Mr. King. I might add, the FBI praised them today.
        The President. Yes. Just for the reason that the caller said, I
    thought it took a lot of real courage on the part of the Post and Times
    to do what they did because our country has basically taken a very hard
    line in not cooperating with terrorists of any kind, not being
    blackmailed and not being subject to blackmail.
        The FBI recommended to the Attorney General, and she recommended to
    the Post and Times, after careful consideration, that they publish this
    for two reasons. One is they really felt, based on the best
    psychological profile they had of the Unabomber, that he would honor his
    commitment and stop killing people, stop trying to kill people. And
    secondly, they felt that the publication of the document, if it could be
    widely read, might actually help Federal authorities who have been
    looking for this person for nearly 20 years now, to identify a range of
    potential suspects.
        And they thought that this was not like, you know, like asking for a
    million dollars or asking to swap hostages or anything like that. There
    were no people involved. So it was for that reason, with great
    reluctance, that the FBI recommended, that the Attorney General
    recommended, and that the Times and the Post did it.
        Mr. King. And you agree with it?
        The President. I do agree with it under these circumstances. It is a
    tough call. I sympathize with the comments of the gentleman that just
    called in. Our basic policy is strictly to not cooperate with terrorists
    of any kind. But under these circumstances, this narrow case, I think
    the Post and the Times did the right thing. And I appreciate the risks
    that they took with their journalistic integrity and with their
    principles to try to save lives and help us to finish this case.

    Colin Powell

        Mr. King. One other quick fax in a closing question. Do you plan to
    read Colin Powell's book? You're an avid reader.
        The President. You know, I was kind of hoping he'd send me an
    autographed copy. I haven't gotten one yet, but I was kind of hoping he
    would.
        Mr. King. He's autographed every other one in America. He might as
    well send one to you. By the way, would you--I know this happened once
    with Mr. Gingrich in New Hampshire. Would you sit down with Colin Powell
    and Ross Perot and others who are critical and semi-critical----
        The President. Yes.

    [[Page 1440]]

        Mr. King. I know you like--discussions in the White House.
        The President. Everything, as you--Mr. McLarty, my special
    Counselor, pointed out at Ross Perot's convention, we have done almost
    everything he said ought to be done in the '92 campaign. And all of the
    comments that General Powell has made so far with regard to the issues
    of the day, including our efforts to deal with assault weapons and the
    Brady bill, have been supportive of our position.
        Mr. King. Do you think he's a Democrat at heart?
        The President. Well, I think at heart he's kind of a new Democrat. I
    think he probably is trying--would like to see the country take
    generally the direction that I've tried to advocate. But I don't know
    that because we've never discussed anything about domestic policy other
    than what he said. I've talked to him a lot about foreign policy
    matters----
        Mr. King. ----him to be Vice President? Or was that one of many?
        The President. No, no, that's true. It was one of many, but we did.
    He was one of the people that I thought that should be considered based
    on what I knew about him. And there were many that we thought about, and
    I thought he should be.
        Mr. King. Any closing comments on this kind of thing we did here
    today? Could do more of it?
        The President. I'd really like to do more of it. I want to thank all
    of the people who called, all the people who sent their faxes, all the
    people that used America Online, and the E-mail and everything. I
    thought it was great.
        Mr. King. It was great having you with us.
        The President. Thank you.

    Note: The interview began at 3:30 p.m. at Westwood One Radio Studio. In
    his remarks, the President referred to Bill Gates, chairman of the
    board, Microsoft Corp.