    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1995, Book I)]
    [June 5, 1995]
    [Pages 808-818]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Interview With Larry King
    June 5, 1995

    Vice President's Role

        Mr. King. Good evening. We have checked all of our history books,
    and as best we can figure out, this is the first time ever a sitting
    President and Vice President have ever been on a program, radio or
    television, together while in office.
        We'll be entertaining your calls later. Also, later in the program
    we'll be giving you a number for Save the Children. I'm wearing a Save

    [[Page 809]]

    the Children tie in conjunction with our 10th anniversary. We'll be
    associating Save the Children programs throughout the month, and we'll
    tell you later where you can order beautiful ties like this. The
    President and Vice President have them as well, but are not wearing them
    tonight. But they both have or are in possession of these ties.
        We'll talk about lots of things, but the most obvious to me--if
    something, God forbid, happened to you, how long would it take to brief
    you?
        The Vice President. Oh, that's not a hypothetical that I'm
    comfortable with, but there are procedures that are in place that we've
    discussed because it's our duty to the country and the Constitution.
        Mr. King. Are you and--is he----
        The President. I know what you're asking. The answer is, no time at
    all. I think it's clear that the Vice President is more closely involved
    with all the decisions of this administration than any of his
    predecessors. In the----
        Mr. King. So you could take over----
        The President. Absolutely. I think that we were very fortunate when
    Harry Truman became President--he'd just been in office a little while,
    and at that time Vice Presidents weren't as involved as they now are.
    But he turned out to be a great President. But we were lucky, because he
    wasn't in the loop on a lot of things. And then, of course, when
    President Johnson had to become President, he had been Senate majority
    leader and there was a little more of a--he had a more active role. But
    Presidents Carter, Reagan, and Bush, I think, all tended to give the
    Vice President a much larger role. And then, because of the relationship
    we have and because of my conviction about what the Constitution really
    requires me to do and because it's good for the American people, Vice
    President Gore is the most involved Vice President in the history of the
    country.
        Mr. King. So you never feel, Mr. Vice President, out of the loop?
        The Vice President. No, never. And it's been a great privilege,
    really.
        Mr. King. Do you talk every day?
        The Vice President. Every day, many, many times.
        Mr. King. You're not--if you're in different parts of the world, you
    talk every day?
        The Vice President. Just about. There are times when we don't, if
    he's on another continent than I am, but even then sometimes we do.

    1996 Presidential Election

        Mr. King. And are you two definitely running again as a ticket? I
    don't think we've officially----
        The Vice President. He's not ready to make any announcements.
        Mr. King. Oh, come on, make it. Everybody makes it here; make it.
    [Laughter]
        The President. I haven't asked him yet, but if he's willing, that
    would be my intention.
        Mr. King. Okay, your intention is to run again and ask him to serve
    again.
        The President. Absolutely.
        Mr. King. And would you serve again if asked?
        The Vice President. Well, I enjoy this job a great deal, and I count
    it a privilege to have this learning experience and to be able to work
    for and with President Clinton. You shouldn't have any doubt about that.
    But we're waiting on any formal announcements.

    Bosnia

        Mr. King. I just wanted to know.
        Anything you can tell us about the pilot?
        The President. No, except that we're working on it very hard.
        Mr. King. Is he signaling? Is there a report of signals out of
    Bosnia?
        The President. Well, you know what the news reports are, but I can
    tell you that I have been keeping on top of this ever since the first
    report of the missing plane. And we're doing everything we can, but it's
    best that we say as little as possible.
        Mr. King. Is this, Mr. Vice President, as some diplomat called it
    today, ``a great failure of Western diplomacy,'' all Western diplomacy?
        The Vice President. Well, clearly, this is a tragedy that has been
    unfolding for a long time, some would say for 500 years. But certainly,
    it was a full-blown tragedy before we ever got here. But I think that
    it's important to realize that NATO, the most successful alliance in
    history, never really did that great a job when it was outside of the
    NATO area, dealing with a conflict between two countries neither of whom
    was a part of NATO. And that's the situation here.
        They have done a great deal. And I think a lot of people have not
    paid much attention

    [[Page 810]]

    to the change that has come about since President Clinton's policy was
    put into place. Some of the numbers aren't very well known, but the
    change has been pretty significant.
        The President. Let me just say this. First of all, I disagree with
    that.
        Mr. King. You disagree with the Vice President?
        The President. No, I agree with him, and I disagree with those who
    say----
        Mr. King. Oh--it's failed.
        The President. ----that the whole thing has been a great failure. It
    has not been a success. But remember, how long has this war been going
    on? Since 1991, in essence. That's 4 years. It's tragic; it's terrible.
    But their enmities go back 500 years, some would say almost a thousand
    years.
        Now, what are our interests and what are our objectives there? First
    of all, we don't want the war to spread beyond Bosnia. Secondly, we want
    to alleviate the human suffering and reduce the killing. And thirdly, we
    want to support a diplomatic process for peace.
        Now, let me just follow up on what the Vice President said. The war
    hasn't spread. We've worked hard on that. We've worked with our NATO
    allies and with the U.N. in the longest humanitarian airlift in history
    and to keep the skies free of bombers to take the war out of the air,
    which is what our brave pilot was doing when he was shot down. We have
    worked with the U.N. peacekeepers on the ground to try to establish safe
    havens through the use, again, of only of our air power; we have no
    ground forces there.
        In 1992, the year we had our interview in Orlando, about 130,000
    people were killed in Bosnia. Last year, 1994, less than 3,000 people
    were killed there. That's still tragic, but I hardly think that
    constitutes a colossal failure, especially--now, let me just say one
    other thing. Look at--you're going to go to the Middle East on Thursday
    with your interviews----
        Mr. King. We're going to talk to all of them.
        The President. We look at the progress in the Middle East. We look
    at progress in Northern Ireland. We look at the joy we have in the
    elections in South Africa. All those conflicts went on for a lot more
    than 4 years. And I'm proud of the role the United States is playing in
    the peace process in all those places, but it became possible when
    people decided they wanted to make peace and they wanted to stop killing
    each other there. That's the point I want to make.
        So, I'm not happy with everything that's happened in Bosnia. I wish
    there were some clear-cut answer. I don't think we should have ground
    troops there in combat or in the peacekeeping force.
        Mr. King. At all?
        The President. No. I've said where I think--if they make a peace,
    they stop fighting, they want us to help police it like we have in the
    Middle East since the late seventies, that's something that we would
    consider doing, after consultation with Congress. If our people--if the
    U.N. has to pull out, they're our NATO allies and they need us, I'd be
    inclined to help them. If they get stranded and they're in desperate
    conditions, I'd be inclined to help them. I think that's something we
    should look at. But we shouldn't be involved on the ground there. We
    have achieved these other objectives.
        And if you go from 130,000 dead down to under 3,000 dead and you've
    still got a talk going, you've got a chance of a diplomatic solution,
    what is the difference in that and Northern Ireland, the Middle East,
    and these other places? It takes time.
        Mr. King. If it spreads, do we have to go? Like to Macedonia, would
    we have to go?
        The President. We have to do--we have troops in Macedonia because we
    are determined not to have a Balkan war. That, after all, is how World
    War I got started. We don't want this thing to spread across the
    Balkans, and I think all Americans would understand that.
        Mr. King. Do we have a moral obligation, Mr. Vice President, to
    these people? Moral, if not strategic?
        The Vice President. I think the world clearly has an interest in
    doing what is reasonable and necessary to stop an ethnically based
    conquering by one country of another. And our NATO allies have shown
    tremendous courage and fortitude in putting their troops there on the
    ground. We've chosen not to do that. They are closer to it. It is on the
    Continent of Europe. We've provided some support to them, but our allies
    are the ones that are there on the ground. And I think that that's the
    correct choice for them to make.
        The President. But Larry, first of all, we've spent a great deal of
    money there, running this humanitarian airlift, giving air support,
    trying to create free-fire zones, if you will, around Sara-

    [[Page 811]]

    jevo and the other populated eastern enclaves, in doing all the things
    we've done to support the no-fly zone and to support the British, the
    French, the Dutch, the Canadians, and others there on the ground. All of
    us have done this at a significant investment. And they are at some
    risk, as you see when several hundred of them got captured. If you
    reduce the casualties from 130,000 to under 3,000 and you at least have
    the possibility of cease-fires and ongoing negotiations and you continue
    humanitarian aid, it seems to me that that is fulfilling a moral
    obligation.
        Do we have the capacity to impose a settlement on people who want to
    continue fighting? We couldn't do that in Northern Ireland. We couldn't
    do that in the Middle East. And I would submit, if you look at the
    population and the geography and the history of Bosnia, we cannot do
    that there. So I believe we're doing the right thing.

    [At this point, the network took a commercial break.]

        Mr. King. There's a lot of bases to cover. One more--are you now
    optimistic on Bosnia? Are you sounding like things are going to turn
    better?
        The President. What I think is that we have to continue to pursue a
    strategy of diplomacy and keeping people alive and minimizing the
    brutality and trying to make the peacekeeping mission work. If it fails,
    then we'll have to consider what our options are then.
        Mr. King. But no troops.
        The Vice President. Anyone who is worried about the U.S. sending
    ground troops there should not be. That's not going to happen.

    Middle East Peace Process

        Mr. King. We have the Middle East program coming Thursday night with
    Hussein and Rabin and Arafat. You've been talking to people involved.
    How is it going? We've got a chance for Syria to get involved with the
    peace treaty.
        The President. I think we've got a chance to make it this year. And
    I think that Mr. Arafat is trying to implement his part of the accords.
    I think he's making progress. Prime Minister Rabin has shown great
    courage. King Hussein has always wanted these days to come about, and
    he's working hard to work through the things that have to be done.
    President Mubarak in Egypt has been a great support. And I think
    President Asad wants peace. We're----
        Mr. King. You do?
        The President. Yes, I do. I am convinced he does. Now, there are a
    lot of difficult stones in the road, and we may not make it, but I think
    we've got a chance.
        The Vice President. Well, let me just recall for you, Larry, that a
    lot has happened since this President came into office. The state of war
    between Israel and Jordan, after 46 years, was ended, right out here on
    the South Lawn of the White House, with President Clinton presiding over
    it. The long period of estrangement and no even--not even any talking
    between the PLO and Israel was ended with the famous handshake, again
    presided over by President Clinton. He went to the signing of the
    agreement in the Middle East.
        The dialog with Syria has now reached the point where people who
    follow this very, very closely, as we do, believe that there is the kind
    of movement that can really inspire a great deal of hope. This is a
    fundamental change. Now you have, on a regular basis, Arafat sitting
    down with Israeli leaders and beginning to work through all of the
    problems there. And all of the leaders there give President Clinton the
    credit for the progress.
        The President. I would say this: In light of what we've been through
    in Oklahoma City and with the World Trade Center, if we could succeed in
    bringing a comprehensive peace to the Middle East and then we could
    bring the benefits of that peace to all the people who live there, I
    believe that that would help us to defeat terrorism in all continents in
    the next century. I think it's a huge deal for all the people of the
    world.

    Japan-U.S. Trade

        Mr. King. Quickly, on the Tokyo thing, are we going to settle that
    before the date of imposition of tariffs?
        The Vice President. Well, that's up to Japan.
        Mr. King. Strictly up to Japan, no more meetings?
        The President. Well, we'll be--we're prepared to meet and talk, I
    think, but look----
        Mr. King. What's the date, June what--24th?
        The President. Let me say--I have worked with four Japanese
    governments. We have succeeded in pushing through a new world trade
    agreement. We have gotten, I think, 14 specific

    [[Page 812]]

    agreements with Japan, including agreements to import rice. But the real
    problem with the Japanese-American trade relationship, and with the
    Japanese trade relationship with many other countries, is autos and auto
    parts. It's 60 percent of our trade deficit with Japan. And we know
    we're competitive in price and quality. And we know there are indirect
    problems that are not covered by the specific letter of normal trade
    agreements. So we have to be firm here.
        I have done everything I could for 2\1/2\ years to have a good,
    constructive, friendly relationship with Japan. We are allies, we are
    friends, but we must be firm on this.
        The Vice President. I was watching television yesterday, and I saw
    an advertisement saying, ``Free trade--these firm moves against Japan
    are a terrible mistake.'' And then at the end of the commercial, it
    said, ``Paid for by Japanese Auto Association.'' And I would just say to
    them that if they, in any way, misjudge the strength and resolve of the
    President in pursuing this, they're making a serious mistake, because
    they're the ones that are acting contrary to what it would take to have
    more----
        Mr. King. You're not going to give on this, is what you're saying.
        The President. We want to open the market. We don't even--we just
    want to open the market. Let me say for the benefit of the Americans who
    are watching this, this is in Japan's interest as well. Japan has
    suffered from low growth. The Japanese people have apparently higher
    incomes than the American people, but their living standards are lower
    because they pay about 40 percent more for consumer products.
        Mr. King. Are you saying their leaders are letting them down?
        The President. I'm saying that their ingrained institutional
    resistance to change is not only hurting the American working people,
    it's hurting the Japanese people.

    [The network took a commercial break.]

    Closing of Pennsylvania Avenue

        Mr. King. What you're looking at now is the front of the White
    House, which is becoming a mall or an esplanade. No cars anymore on
    Pennsylvania Avenue because of security threats. There are the
    barricades. You have to go in through the side; you can't go in through
    the front anymore. Tragedy?
        The President. Well, I wish it hadn't been necessary. But the truth
    is that, so far, it's increasing public access to the White House, and
    it hasn't interrupted traffic too much. On the weekends now, the whole
    Pennsylvania Avenue is just flooded with people. They're riding bikes;
    they're skating; they're skateboarding; they're on rollerblades.
        Mr. King. Is this going to be like an esplanade? It's going to be
    like----
        The President. We want it to be a big public space. You know, in a
    time of less security consciousness back in the thirties, the back lawn
    of the White House, the large back lawn, used to be open every Sunday in
    the spring and summer for ordinary citizens to go and picnic and sort of
    be there in the atmosphere of it. Now we can do that in the front
    because of what's happened. I wish it hadn't been necessary, but we're
    going to make something good come of this.
        The Vice President. There's a difference between access for people
    and access for cars and trucks. And actually, this space is more
    accessible to people now.

    Antiterrorism Legislation

        Mr. King. Where's your terrorism bill? Flying in the Senate, stopped
    in the House?
        The Vice President. Well, the President's been working extremely
    hard on that, and I have to tell you--he won't say this the same way I
    do--I would personally like to say I'm very frustrated with what the
    House of Representatives is doing. The President's made it clear why
    this is necessary for our country, and it's not right for the House of
    Representatives to sit on this because some of the Members of Congress
    are scared that some of these antigovernment sentiments are so strong
    that they'll be expressed against them if they increase the ability of
    the Government to fight against lawbreakers.
        The President. I'd like to say, though, that this is not just a--
    this is not necessarily a partisan deal. Senator Dole, so far as we
    speak tonight, has done what he's said he'd do. He asked me and the
    Democratic leadership to try to reduce the number of amendments offered
    by the Democrats. He said he'd try to reduce the number of amendments
    offered by Republicans. They did that today. They adopted a major
    amendment that I wanted to put taggants in illegal explosives, or
    explosives that could be held illegally, so we could trace them. They're

    [[Page 813]]

    moving that bill. And it seems to me that we're moving in the right
    direction in the Senate.
        I was quite disturbed at the people in the House saying, ``Well,
    maybe we ought to go slow on this.'' Look, I had an antiterrorism bill
    in the Congress 2 months before Oklahoma for foreign terrorists. Then
    the FBI and others said, ``We'd like some changes to deal with domestic
    terrorism,'' and we presented that. The bill is moving in the Senate. It
    must move in the House. We can't go slow on it. We can't.
        Mr. King. What's stopping you in the House?
        The President. Well, we don't know. Nothing has happened yet. We
    hope, if we can get this bill out of the Senate, that the House will
    then move rapidly.
        Mr. King. What has Mr. Gingrich said about it?
        The Vice President. Well, he said that they might have to go slow.
    And the terrorists aren't going slow.
        Mr. King. So you're saying tonight to the House, get a move on?
        The President. Look, this is a big deal, and this should not be
    partisan. And I know that some of these groups that hate the Government
    think that their civil liberties may be infringed here. The Congress has
    the right, indeed, the responsibility, to review the provisions of this
    act, but not to go slow. The people who do this terrorist work, they
    operate on their own timetable; they don't sit around and wait for
    Congress to enact laws.
        We know that we can do a better job in stopping things from
    happening. Let me say, in spite of the horror of Oklahoma City and the
    World Trade Center, our people stopped another planned bombing in New
    York, stopped a plan to explode some airplanes flying out of the West
    Coast airports over the Pacific. We can do more of this. In Israel now,
    with all of their problems with terrorism, they head off the vast
    majority of terrorist threats. We can prevent this, but we're not used
    to dealing with it. We need more tools. That's what this legislation is
    for, and we can't delay.

    Oklahoma City Bombing

        Mr. King. Are we still investigating Oklahoma City heavily?
        The Vice President. Oh, yes. The President put together--let me just
    expand on that briefly. The President, immediately following the
    explosion in Oklahoma City, without a moment's delay, was on the
    telephone to the Attorney General, the FBI, and the law enforcement
    community. And from the first half-hour, you saw assembled the most
    impressive law enforcement team ever put together in the history of the
    United States of America. I was there last week, watching them comb
    through every piece of the rubble of that building, down to pieces this
    big, getting every scrap of evidence that they could possibly find. It
    is an incredibly impressive operation.
        Mr. King. Do you believe it was just two people?
        The President. I believe we should let the investigation unfold.

    [The network took a commercial break]

    Habeas Corpus Legislation

        Mr. King. In this segment, concerning legislation, there's
    apparently a confusion over whether you're for or against an amendment
    regarding habeas corpus.
        The President. Well, in addition to the antiterrorism legislation,
    we've been trying to pass, and I tried to pass last year and failed to
    do it, a bill which would reform the habeas corpus procedure, the
    criminal appeals procedure.
        Mr. King. So?
        The President. In death penalty cases, it normally takes 8 years to
    exhaust the appeals; it's ridiculous. And if you have multiple
    convictions, it could take even longer. So there is a strong sense in
    the Congress, I think among Members of both parties, that we need to get
    down to sort of one clear appeal, we need to cut the time delay on the
    appeals dramatically, and that it ought to be done in the context of
    this terrorism legislation so that it would apply to any prosecutions
    brought against anyone indicted in Oklahoma. And I think it ought to be
    done.
        You know, we have some differences about exactly what the details
    are and what the best and fairest way to do--to apply to all criminal
    cases, but I think it definitely ought to be done. We have--for 15
    years, I have been trying to get Congress to clarify this. And I have
    strongly believed it for a very long time, since I was an attorney
    general and a Governor and I had been on the receiving end of these
    interminable appeals.
        Mr. King. Are there those in Congress who think you're against this?

    [[Page 814]]

        The Vice President. There are some in both parties who, in good
    conscience, think it would cause problems for a criminal procedure.
        Mr. King. Constitutionally.
        The Vice President. Well, they're worried about it. But the
    President's for it. And if they want to put the right version of it on
    this bill, fine.
        The President. There are some good and bad--we don't have time to
    get into all of the details of it. There are things that I like better
    in some versions than others.
        Mr. King. But you're, in essence, for it?
        The President. I'm not only for it, we need to do it. You can't
    justify this lengthy appeals process.

    1993 Tragedy in Waco, Texas

        Mr. King. Are we going to have the full Waco story come out?
        The President. Yes, but I think we already have had it. I mean,
    after all, we had an independent panel review what the ATF people did
    there. We've already had 10 congressional hearings on Waco. And I think
    the American people should remember that. I'd just like to remind you of
    the facts. There was action taken based on mistakes made. There is new
    leadership at the ATF. The facts were made known of what they did and
    the FBI did and others did, and there were 10 congressional hearings
    last year.
        If they want to have other hearings, fine. But let's not lose the
    forest for the trees here. All this renewed interest in Waco came up by
    people who were worried about the fact that there would be a renewed
    interest in exploring the kind of militant groups that the suspect in
    the Oklahoma City bombing was involved with. So if they want to look
    into Waco, fine, but let's not forget what the real problem is here. The
    real problem is what happened at Oklahoma City.
        At Waco, whatever else the facts are, it's clear there was a valid
    warrant. The people in the cult shot first and killed innocent Federal
    law enforcement officials. When the FBI went after them, based on their
    best available intelligence at the time, they killed the children
    there--the people there, not the Federal officials--the people in the
    cult did. And when they finally had their place inspected, what did we
    find? We found illegal machine guns, illegal explosives, and the
    capacity to build another 100 high-caliber illegal machine guns. And
    Koresh shot his way into the leadership of the cult.
        So there's a lot of historical revision going on here to take
    people's attention off Oklahoma City.

    [The network took a commercial break.]

    Violence in Entertainment

        Mr. King. People often ask, what do you talk about during breaks? We
    were talking about movies. Now, normally that would be considered
    inconsequential, except movies are suddenly political.
        Okay, what do you make of Bob Dole and the charges that--well, I'll
    tell you something he said yesterday. He said, ``Mr. Clinton will not
    criticize the movies like I do because if he needs a million dollars, he
    has to go to Hollywood.'' And he said, ``If he needs $2 million, he has
    to go see Barbra Streisand, and she has to put on a concert.'' She'll be
    here tomorrow night, so I mentioned that. Your thoughts on Mr. Dole.
        The President. Well, first of all, if I had any criticism it would
    be that the whole thing has been politicized, like in those comments you
    made.
        The truth is, I was talking about violence and--in rap music and
    movies in 1992, in 1993. I went to Hollywood and met with a bunch of the
    people in production and challenged them to reduce it. I met with
    people--the members of--the representatives of television networks and
    challenged them. And I talked about it--if you remember, I got a big
    standing ovation in the State of the Union Address, talking about it.
        Mr. King. So you agree with Senator Dole?
        The President. So I think it's an absolutely legitimate point for
    discussion. Tipper Gore, years ago, long before there was any politics
    in it, was talking about how we needed to take----
        Mr. King. Labeling records.
        The President. Yes, and to take--and to just--so that people could
    know whether these things were consistent with what you'd want young
    children to see and hear.
        I don't believe in censorship, and I don't believe in singling
    Hollywood out. What I believe we need to do is to say to ourselves, what
    has happened to our ability to have an American community that raises
    good citizens with good

    [[Page 815]]

    values, who are--who grow up into good people? That these kids--how do
    we reduce the teen violence? How do we reduce----
        Mr. King. They're saying that Hollywood contributes to it.
        The President. Well, I think--and I think that's--I think excessive
    exposure to mind-numbing violence or crass abuse of people in sexual and
    other ways has a bad impact on young children, especially if they don't
    have the kind of structure and other leadership in their life that they
    need.
        But what I would say is that we need to ask ourselves: What does the
    entertainment community need to do? What does the media need to do? What
    does the business community need to do? What does the religious
    community need to do? What do the politicians need to do? What's our
    contribution to all this? That is, my only quarrel with all this is I
    don't want to see it politicized. I agree with a lot of what Senator
    Dole said. I don't know about the specific movies; I hadn't seen most of
    the ones he mentioned. But I think that we need to do this in a spirit
    not of dividing each other but of asking everybody to come forward and
    be accountable.
        Mr. King. Is the rap on Time-Warner fair?
        The Vice President. Well, I think that they have put out a lot of
    material that they shouldn't have. And it's not true that this
    administration hasn't talked about it. In fact, there was a public back-
    and-forth when one of their properties had some inappropriate material
    on President Reagan's Alzheimer's disease, and we said, ``Hey, wait a
    minute.'' And they pulled it back. And I give them credit for that. And
    there have been other examples.
        And let me say this: My wife, Tipper, began working on this and
    talking about this 18 years ago. And a few years after that, she began
    to get criticized from all parts. Before they were in the White House,
    Bill and Hillary Clinton were among the few who stood up and said, ``We
    support what Tipper Gore is saying about this.'' And it took some doing,
    but she succeeded in getting the voluntary system of labeling for
    records. But she's continued talking about it. And she and I have
    appreciated the fact that this is the first President to talk about this
    in the State of the Union Address, to go to Hollywood and make a speech
    about it, and to take on this phenomenon in a responsible way, not in a
    partisan way.
        Mr. King. Are you also against violent movies that Mr. Dole didn't
    mention, like ``True Lies,'' let's say, a Schwarzenegger movie that had
    a lot of violence?
        The President. Well, let me say--I don't want to get into critiquing
    every movie. There have been about 3,000 studies of the impact of
    constant exposure to violence on children through television and through
    the movies. Almost all of them, not all but almost all of them, conclude
    that what is really bad is the aggregate impact of it, the total volume
    of it, plus the treatment of violence as something casual and crass.
        Mr. King. Everyday----
        The President. Like you and I were talking about ``Braveheart.''
    That's a violent movie, but it doesn't glorify violence. It's ugly, and
    it's awful.
        Now, I feel that we ought to go after this in a responsible way. I
    was not upset when Senator Dole raised this issue. I just don't think
    any of us ought to be doing it as a way of sort of dividing the American
    people.
        You know, we ought to get on this--a friend of mine said today, we
    need to get on the solution side of these problems. We need to challenge
    Hollywood. Most of these people, they're good people out there. They
    want to do the right thing. And we're not talking about censorship;
    we're talking about responsible, honest debate. We all have to say, what
    contribution are we making to creating an America that is too divided,
    that doesn't raise good children with strong values who are good, law-
    abiding citizens when they grow up?
        Mr. King. We'll be back. We'll include some phone calls for the
    President and Vice President of the United States right after this.

    [The network took a commercial break.]

        Mr. King. Timeth flieth. We're moving along. Let's take a call.
    Jameson, Pennsylvania, for President Clinton and Vice President Gore.
    Hello.
        Q. Hello. Good evening. Thank you, Larry, for the opportunity.
        Mr. King. You're welcome.

    Negative Criticism

        Q. Good evening, President Clinton and Vice President Gore. This is
    indeed an honor. Like you, President Clinton, I saw President Kennedy
    when I was younger, and it has sparked my interest in studying the
    Presidency.

    [[Page 816]]

        Mr. King. Ma'am, I wish you would get right to the question. I don't
    mean to interrupt, but we have long----
        Q. My question is, I respect the Presidency of the United States,
    and I think it's an important job. How frustrating is it for you to try
    to get your message out to the people when it seems like the opposing
    party is criticizing you constantly?
        Mr. King. What do you make of the daily hate? There is a lot of hate
    in America.
        The President. There is, and I would say to her, I don't mind the
    daily criticism. What I don't like and don't agree with is the sort of
    atmosphere of negativism and cynicism. That is, I should be criticized
    by people who disagree with me; we should have an honest debate. That's
    really the way you make progress in this country. But we have gotten to
    be entirely too negative and cynical and divisive, and that's one of our
    country's big problems. We need to get out of being quite so partisan
    and quite so personal and quite so interested in the destruction of our
    opponents.
        This country, with all of its problems, no other country would trade
    places with us as we get ready to go into this new century, because our
    productivity, the strength of our people, the wealth of our resources,
    the diversity of our population in a global economy--if we can just
    figure out a way to restore middle class dreams and middle class values
    and pull this country together, there's no stopping the United States.
        So I say to the lady, it bothers me not to be criticized, but it
    bothers me that there is an atmosphere that is more negative than
    positive. America should be more positive than negative.

    1996 Presidential Election

        Mr. King. A couple of political things. Do you think Senator Dole
    will be your opponent?
        The Vice President. I don't know. I don't know.
        Mr. King. Do you think so?
        The Vice President. It looks that way now, but it's impossible to
    tell. It's so far off.
        The President. I don't know. One thing I've learned watching this
    for 30 years, is you can't tell now who will be there then.
        Mr. King. Mr. Gingrich will be in New Hampshire all weekend; so will
    you. You'll be there for Dartmouth on Sunday. Do you think he might
    enter the race? That's just a thought. You know, just three people
    talking.
        The President. I don't know. You've got to ask him. I really don't
    know. I talk to him all the time, but not about this.
        Mr. King. Would you regard it as a challenge if he did? Do you think
    he'll----
        The President. Well, it would be interesting. Of course, he'd have
    to be nominated first. But it would be interesting.
        Mr. King. Senator--Mr. Vice President? I'm so used to calling him--
    --
        The Vice President. I'm still in the----
        Mr. King. I know, you're still in the Senate.
        The Vice President. I'm still in the Senate. And you know, the
    experience of voting in the Senate's made me a more optimistic person,
    because I've noticed that every time I vote, we win. [Laughter]
        Mr. King. Good line.
        The Vice President. But to answer your question, I don't know. It
    sounds----
        Mr. King. Would it be formidable?
        The Vice President. You know, we're not going to rank any potential
    opponents for the President. Anybody who got the nomination would be, by
    definition, the nominee of the other party and formidable. But it sounds
    to me like he kind of wants to, but maybe I have it wrong, and I have no
    idea.
        Mr. King. Mr. Perot has called a meeting in Dallas with his large
    group. He says every Republican candidate has agreed to go. Will you go?
        The Vice President. I'm inclined not to go, because I have a lot of
    respect for the United We Stand group, and I hope that they will review
    my record in terms of what they said they wanted done in 1992, because I
    have done or advocated a vast majority of what they did. But I don't
    believe--I think the President's in a little different category. I don't
    think the President should start the politicking too soon. I've got a
    job; I'm supposed to be working for the American people. I'm trying to
    work with this new Republican Congress, and I want to diminish partisan
    politics and my personal politics for as long as I can.
        Q. Therefore, you'll ask the Vice President not to go, either?
        The President. We haven't even discussed it. I'm telling you what my
    instinct is.

    [[Page 817]]

        The Vice President. I don't plan to go. I think that the party chair
    has already expressed his intention to go.
        Mr. King. He will go?
        The Vice President. Yes.

    Surgeon General Nominee Henry Foster

        Mr. King. Foster, is he going to go through?
        The President. I think he will. I think we're very close to having
    the votes to break filibuster, and I think a filibuster would be wrong.
    He's a good man. He cleared the committee; he was treated fairly, in a
    bipartisan way. He had all those kids from Tennessee from those housing
    projects come up and say, ``Here's a guy that told us to abstain from
    premature sex, to stay off drugs, to be good people.'' That's the
    message we need going out to America's children.
        Mr. King. Is Senator Dole going to bring it to the floor?
        The Vice President. I hope he will. Nobody in America is better
    qualified to lead a crusade against this epidemic of teen pregnancy.
        Mr. King. And you think they'll override a Gramm filibuster if it
    comes to the floor?
        The President. I don't see how a majority of the Senate, even 60
    percent of them, could say this man's not entitled to a vote, up or
    down.

    [The network took a commercial break.]

    Balanced Budget

        Mr. King. We're back. The Republican National Committee sent out a
    news release today, Haley Barbour talking about your appearance tonight
    on this program and saying, 3 years ago on this show you promised the
    American people you would offer a plan to balance the budget. Do you
    have such a plan?
        The President. Well, as you know, I have said that I will work with
    the Republicans to balance the budget. And at the proper time, I will
    offer how I think the best way to do is.
        But let's just point out, in 1994, the Republicans told the American
    people all I did was raise taxes. And they basically turned things
    upside down; they won the Congress. But what we did, in fact, was to use
    their 7-year number. We reduced the deficit by a trillion dollars 3
    years in a row for the first time since Truman was President. They
    talked about how terrible it was, but it produced low interest rates,
    high growth, 6.3 million new jobs.
        And I might say to the American people, the Republican plan does not
    repeal my plan, it builds on it. If they didn't take the deficit
    reduction we'd already achieved, they could never get to a balance in 7
    years or any other figure.
        Mr. King. So you say we're going to have something from you after--
    --
        The President. So I think--I'll be happy to work with them, but I
    want--I thought it was important, after they won the election on a set
    of specific promises, that they have a chance to go and say how they
    thought it should be done.
        Now, you know what I think is wrong with their budget. I think that
    it cuts Medicare and other health programs to the elderly way too much.
    It cuts education too much. It uses those cuts to finance a tax cut that
    is entirely too large and tilted to upper income individuals who are
    doing very well in the present economy and who basically just want us to
    get the deficit down.
        So, we need to do this, but there's a right way and a wrong way to
    do it. And at the proper time, I will say what I think the right way is.
        Mr. King. And the proper time is imminent or not imminent?
        The President. I will do it when I think the proper time is.
        Mr. King. Dana Point, California, with Vice President Gore and
    President Clinton--hello.
        Q. Hi, Larry. I enjoy your show. My name is Michelle Denise. Also,
    I'd like you to know I enjoy Jerry Spence.
        Mr. King. Everybody does. He's an international hero, Jerry Spence.
        Q. He is quite a character.
        The President. He looks good in those jackets.
        Mr. King. Doesn't he? Boy. This trial is going forever, right?
        Okay.

    Defense Base Closures

        Q. This question is both for Mr. Clinton and Gore. Are we going to
    continue our military base closures in consideration that we might
    possibly be spreading ourselves too thin----
        Mr. King. Any chance of that?
        The Vice President. Well, the base closure procedure is locked into
    law. It's bipartisan in nature. It has caused a lot of difficulty. The
    President has directed his Cabinet to address the problems that have
    been created. There

    [[Page 818]]

    have been some very imaginative plans to try to use some of these
    facilities for other purposes and bring back employment and new
    opportunities in the community. But this was put into place long before
    we got here, and according to the law, it's going to continue for a
    while.
        The President. But let me answer the security concern the lady
    raised. Defense spending peaked in about 1987 and since then has been
    cut about 40 percent. We have suggested that we add back a few billion
    dollars so we can get our training and our readiness up and support a
    good quality of life so we can keep first-rate people in the military,
    because it's the people that make it go.
        The answer to your question, ma'am, is that we actually have more
    base capacity than the number of our men and women in uniform would
    justify. So we have to bring down the bases a little more so that
    they're basically in line with the size of our forces. The size of our
    forces now will enable to meet our security needs and meet our strategic
    objectives. But we can't cut it a lot more. We should stay about where
    we are.
        Mr. King. Barbra Streisand is here tomorrow night. And are you both
    fans of hers? Do you like her speaking out on politics, by the way?
        The President. I think she's--just as--if we have a right to speak
    out on entertainment, I think she has the right to speak out on
    politics. [Laughter] I think that she should do it.
        Mr. King. David Letterman is here on Friday.
        The Vice President. Tell him I said hello.
        Mr. King. I will. Do you plan to return to that show?
        The Vice President. I hope to sometime.
        Mr. King. Would you recommend the President even appear with David?
        The Vice President. I'm going to let him make that decision.
    [Laughter]
        The President. But you know, since we got this procurement reform
    passed, there are no more of those $10 ashtrays and $500 hammers. So
    he's got no gig anymore. [Laughter]
        Mr. King. Thanks, guys. You don't want to do a Brando close, do you?
    [Laughter]
        The Vice President. Just a handshake. [Laughter]
        Mr. King. Just a handshake.
        The President. We've enjoyed doing the show.
        Mr. King. Oh, let me--here--President Clinton does Brando. Do it
    once.
        The Vice President. You missed it.
        The President. It's been great being on your show, Larry.
        Mr. King. Thank you.
        The President. You're a good man; you've got a real future in this
    business. [Laughter]
        Mr. King. Thank you. Thank you.
        The President. Good night.
        Mr. King. Good night.
        The Vice President. Good night.

    Note: The interview began at 9 p.m. in the Library at the White House.