    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1994, Book II)]
    [September 19, 1994]
    [Pages 1574-1579]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    The President's News Conference With President Jimmy Carter,
    General Colin Powell, and Senator Sam Nunn on Haiti
    September 19, 1994

        President Clinton. Good morning. I'd like to begin by thanking
    President Carter, General Powell, and Senator Nunn for their
    extraordinary work in Haiti. They got in very early this morning; they
    have had hardly any sleep for the last 2 nights, as they have worked
    virtually around the clock. The peaceful solution they helped to work
    out is another major contribution in all their careers, which have been
    devoted to the pursuit of peace and democracy. They have done a great
    service to our country, as well as to the people of Haiti, the people in
    our hemisphere, and the efforts of the United Nations, and we owe them a
    great deal of gratitude. I also want to thank the men and women of our
    United States armed services, who are beginning their operations in
    Haiti even as we meet here today. Their preparation and presence made a
    crucial difference in convincing the Haitian leaders to leave power.
        In the end, two things led to the agreement to leave. The first was
    this delegation's appeal to the Haitians to do the right and honorable
    thing for their own people in accordance with the United Nations
    Security Council resolutions. The second was the clear imminence of
    military action by the United States.
        This is a good agreement. It will further our goals in Haiti.
    General Cedras and the other leaders will leave power no later than
    October 15th. After 3 years and a series of broken promises, American
    steadfastness has given us the opportunity to restore Haiti's
    democratically elected government and President Aristide.
        American troops are beginning to take up their positions in Haiti
    today, and they will be

    [[Page 1575]]

    there to make sure that the leaders keep their word. The agreement means
    that our troops do not have to invade. They have entered Haiti
    peacefully today. It minimizes the risks to American forces and to our
    coalition partners.
        But I want to emphasize that the situation in Haiti remains
    difficult, it remains uncertain. The mission still has risks. But
    clearly we are in a better position to work for peace in a peaceable way
    today than we were yesterday.
        My first concern, and the most important one, obviously, is for the
    safety and security of our troops. General Shalikashvili and Lieutenant
    General Hugh Shelton, our commander in Haiti, have made it clear to all
    involved that the protection of American lives is our first order of
    business.
        Let me repeat what I said last night and what I said on Thursday
    night: This mission will be limited in time and scope. It is clearly
    designed to provide a secure environment for the restoration of
    President Aristide and democracy, to begin the work of retraining the
    police and the military in a professional manner, and to facilitate a
    quick handoff to the United Nations mission so that the work of
    restoring democracy can be continued, the developmental aid can begin to
    flow, Haiti can be rebuilt, and in 1995 another free and fair election
    for President can be held.
        I also have to say again that we remain ready to pursue our
    interests and our obligations in whatever way we have to. But we hope
    that good faith and reasonableness will prevail today and tomorrow and
    in the days ahead, so that this will not be another violated agreement
    that the United States has to impose and enforce. We believe that,
    because of the work of this delegation, we have a chance to achieve that
    kind of good faith and cooperation.
        And I want to thank, again, President Carter, General Powell, and
    Senator Nunn and ask them each in turn to come and make an opening
    statement, and then we will be available for your questions.

    [At this point, President Carter praised the balanced use of military
    power and diplomacy, described the goals of the diplomatic mission, and
    expressed his appreciation for the President's support and the
    contributions of General Powell and Senator Nunn. General Powell thanked
    the President and expressed his satisfaction that with the
    administration's support and guidance, the delegation's discussions with
    the Haitian leaders helped bring about a peaceful solution. Senator Nunn
    then thanked the President for his strong leadership, discussed the
    roles played by General Powell and President Carter, and stressed the
    importance of free and fair parliamentary elections to Haitian
    democracy.]

        President Clinton. Terry [Terence Hunt, Associated Press].
        Q. Mr. President, you accused the military leaders in Haiti of
    maintaining a reign of terror; you said that they were responsible for
    3,000 deaths. Why did you accept an agreement that allows them to stay
    in Haiti and perhaps run for elected office there? And can you tell us,
    is President Aristide satisfied with this agreement?
        President Clinton. Well, first of all, I'm not entirely sure that
    they will stay in Haiti, but that was not the charge of this mission.
    They only had about a day and a half to stay down there, and they worked
    for probably 21 or 22 hours during that time they were there. Their
    charge was to assure that they would leave power.
        Secondly, I don't take back anything I say about what has happened
    there in the last 3 years and the absence of any effort by the
    authorities to stop it and sometimes some direct responsibility for it.
    But with regard to the amnesty provision, that was a part of the
    Governors Island Agreement. And we had always felt that we should follow
    through on the agreements to which we had all been a part and we had to
    demonstrate a willingness to do that.
        I cannot answer all the questions that you have asked about what
    will happen in the future and what decisions people will make in the
    future and where they'll wind up living. I don't know the answers to all
    that. But I do believe that this agreement substantially furthers our
    objectives there and dramatically increases the chances of a peaceful
    transition of power, a peaceful restoration of democracy, a peaceful
    restoration of President Aristide. He will have to determine for himself
    what he thinks about it, but it won't be very long before he'll have the
    opportunity to be back in Haiti, governing as President. And it won't be
    very long before we'll have new parliamentary elections, which I think
    everyone on all sides in Haiti believes is a very important thing.

    [[Page 1576]]

        Q. Mr. President, granted that victory has 1,000 fathers and defeat
    is an orphan, but do you intend to make as a pattern using military
    action without the consent of Congress or the approval of the American
    people?
        President Clinton. Well, those are two different things. And with
    regard to the consent of Congress, I think that every President and all
    my predecessors in both parties have clearly maintained that they did
    not require, by Constitution, did not have to have congressional
    approval for every kind of military action.
        I obviously think the bigger and more prolonged the action, the
    better it is to have congressional approval. If you look at the pattern
    of my two immediate predecessors, there was congressional approval
    sought in the Desert Storm operation where there was a 5\1/2\ month
    buildup and a half a million troops facing hundreds of thousands of
    troops on the other side. There was not congressional approval in
    advance of the actions in Panama and Grenada. So I think that we will
    have to take that on a case-by-case basis.
        In terms of popular approval, the American people, probably wisely,
    are almost always against any kind of military action when they first
    hear about it, unless our people have been directly attacked. And they
    have historically felt that way. And obviously at the end of the cold
    war, they may be more inclined to feel that way.
        The job of the President is to try to do what is right, particularly
    in matters affecting our long-term security interests. And
    unfortunately, not all of the decisions that are right can be popular.
    So I don't believe that the President, that I or any other President,
    could conduct foreign policy by a public opinion poll, and I would hope
    the American people would not wish me to.
        Q. You would grant that you would have to have the support of the
    people in the long run for any engagement----
        President Clinton. Any sustained endeavor involving our military
    forces requires the support of the people over the long run. We have
    learned that mostly in good ways and sometimes in sad ways in our
    country's history.
        Q. Mr. President, you and your aides said repeatedly last week there
    was only one thing about which you would be willing to discuss anything
    with the leaders in Haiti and that was the modalities, as it was
    repeatedly called, of their departure. As President Carter has made
    clear today, it became necessary for him to conduct a somewhat more
    extensive negotiation. And I just wanted to ask you, sir, what prompted
    you, what made you decide to change your mind and go along with that?
        President Clinton. Well, I think if you look at this agreement, the
    details of the agreement are consistent with the modalities of their
    leaving power. What I told President Carter and General Powell and
    Senator Nunn was--and I think we talked three times each before they
    went--was that I basically did not care what was discussed as long as
    there was no attempt to change the timetable of the administration for
    action or to derail the ultimate possibility of action.
        And if the objective of their departure from power was achieved,
    then, if other things had to be discussed, I did not object to that. In
    fact, it was obvious to me that one--let me just back off and say, one
    of the things that will determine whether this United Nations sanction
    mission, that is, to restore democracy, is successful and one of the
    things that will determine whether we can do it with a minimum of risk
    to our people is whether there can be an orderly transfer of power and
    an orderly retraining of police and military forces, rather than a total
    collapse of the structures of Haitian society which could cause a much
    more violent set of activities, perhaps involving us only peripherally.
    They have avoided that, I think, by the terms of this agreement if it
    can be implemented, which of course is what I hope will happen.
        Q. Did President Carter say something to you that made you decide
    that it would be well to allow him to conduct a broader discussion? Was
    that his suggestion, sir?
        President Clinton. No, we never--what we discussed, what I said to
    him was--and I said to each of the three gentlemen--was, ``I want you to
    pledge to me, number one, that the objective is removing them from
    power; number two, that there will be no attempt to change the timetable
    that I will set unilaterally for doing so forcibly if we have to; and
    number three, that there'll be no attempt to derail the possibility of
    taking that kind of action if it becomes necessary. Beyond that,
    whatever you feel you should discuss, feel free to discuss it within
    those three criteria.''

    [[Page 1577]]

        Q. President Clinton, there have been a lot of reports that you and
    President Carter have had some tension in the past, and I wondered if
    you might comment on that. And in particular, was there a point at which
    President Carter wanted to go to Haiti and the administration was not
    ready for him to go at that time? And was there a point when you wanted
    him to come home and he wasn't ready to come home? And if President
    Carter would comment on that as well, I'd appreciate it.
        President Clinton. The answer to the first question is no, there was
    not a point where he wanted to go and I didn't want him to go. The
    answer to the second question is maybe, but not for the reason you
    think. And let me try to answer what I mean by that.
        President Carter and I have discussed Haiti, I think beginning
    before I became President, on a regular and repeated basis. And he has a
    deep interest there because, among other things, he's not only been
    there many times but he and his group monitored the election which
    resulted in President Aristide's election.
        I have also discussed Haiti repeatedly with General Powell, both
    when he was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in my tenure and
    after he left office. I have called him at least two and maybe more
    occasions and said, ``I'm tearing my hair out about this problem; what
    do you think? What about this, that, or the other thing?'' And Senator
    Nunn and I have discussed it before.
        When President Carter called me and told me that he had heard from
    General Cedras, we began to talk about this and about the prospect of a
    mission. We talked about General Powell, Senator Nunn. I picked up the
    phone, and I called General Powell and Senator Nunn to find out if they
    would be willing go there. It wasn't the first item on their list of
    what they had planned to do last weekend, but they were open. A number
    of other calls ensued. We had to determine (a) that they would be
    received and (b) that there was a serious chance of at least affecting
    this agreement, because there was no agreement in advance by them, by
    the Haitians, to leave. Once all that was worked out, we decided it was
    quite a good thing and certainly worth the risk for them to go. Any kind
    of mission like this is full of risk.
        In answer to your second question, there was never a point when I
    wanted him to leave in the sense that I wanted him to stop talking.
    There was a point last evening, as you know, when I became worried that
    we needed to get them out of there because of the timetable of the
    mission. In other words, I was just beginning--was concerned about--I
    wanted them to be safe, I wanted them to be secure, I wanted them to be
    out of Haiti in a timely fashion. That is the only issue about their
    leaving.
        And the last time we talked, he said, ``Well, we're almost there.
    We've about got this nailed. We're going over to the Presidential
    Palace.'' And I said, ``Okay, you have 30 more minutes, and then I will
    have to order you to leave,'' because I was worried about their personal
    security. There was no political debate at all. They were making
    progress. But the time was running out on the hourglass.
        Q. Mr. President, President Carter was quoted today as saying that
    the launching of the first wave came while they were still negotiating
    peace. And he said that that was very disturbing to us and to them, to
    the Haitian leaders with whom he was negotiating. Could I ask both of
    you to comment on that, and whether you felt that the launching of the
    82d Airborne was, in fact, interfering with their attempts to negotiate?
        President Clinton. I think I'll let him answer that.
        Q. Could we ask you to comment?
        President Clinton. Yes, I'll be happy to, but I'll let him answer it
    first.
        President Carter. The key to our success, to the extent it is
    successful, was the inexorability of the entry of the forces into Haiti.
    And we spent the first hours of discussion with the military leaders to
    convince them that this was going to happen, it would be with an
    overwhelming capability, and that the schedule was set and that we had
    no intention or authority to change the schedule. And it was that
    inevitability that was a major factor in that decision.
        Another one, I should hasten to say, was their quandary about what
    to do that was right and honorable. Haiti, I think, is perhaps one of
    the proudest nations I have ever seen because of their long history and
    because of the turmoil in which they have often lived. And it was very
    difficult for Haitian military commanders to accept the proposition that
    foreign forces could come on their soil without their fighting. But we
    all worked to convince them that this was the best thing to do for their
    country and for their people.

    [[Page 1578]]

        Now, we recognized the difficulty of this. And we were down to the
    last stages of negotiating which involved the last date that the
    military leaders could stay in office. At that time, General Biamby
    received a report from Fort Bragg, he told us, that the initial
    operation had already commenced. And they were on the verge of saying,
    ``We will not negotiate anymore; this may be a trick just to keep us
    occupied, all of us military commanders in the same room while the
    invasion takes place.'' We obviously assured them this was not the case.
    And the thing was about to break down. They finally decided, let's go
    over to the President's house, the Presidential Palace. President
    Jonassaint, we have been led to believe--and I believed it ahead of
    time--was a figurehead. This proved to be absolutely incorrect. When we
    got to President Jonassaint's office with his ministers sitting in front
    of him and the commanders of the military in front of him and I sitting
    next to him and Senator Nunn and General Powell there, he said--very
    quickly to summarize my answer--``We will take peace instead of war; I
    will sign this agreement.'' All of his people in the room disagreed. One
    of his ministers, a minister of defense, said, ``I resign tomorrow.''
    The others belabored the point. But there was no doubt that his decision
    was what brought about the consummation of the agreement. All the time
    through this, we were consulting fervently and constantly with President
    Clinton.
        So the inexorability of the force coming in made it possible. There
    was a setback when we found, to my surprise, that the initial stages had
    begun; as soon as President Clinton knew that President Jonassaint and I
    had reached an agreement, so as far as I know, the planes reversed their
    course.
        Q. Mr. President, can you comment on that?
        President Clinton. Yes.
        Q. Did he ask you why they had taken off and asked you to turn them
    back?
        President Clinton. No. No, when they went, I told them that we
    needed to conclude the negotiations by 12 o'clock Sunday. Then I said,
    but they could clearly stay until 3. And then the thing kept getting put
    back. They were very dogged; they didn't want to give up.
        I frankly had come to the conclusion that we were not going to reach
    an agreement. What I--and let me say, there had never been a plan to
    have them talking while American planes were flying. That was never a
    plan. The inference--because I wanted them out of there, I wanted them
    safe. And I think President Carter has made it clear what--to the extent
    that it was disrupted, it was because they thought the whole thing maybe
    had been pointless, a ruse.
        To the extent it was helpful, it was the final evidence that
    President Jonassaint needed to push the agreements. But it was one of
    those things that happened. It was not a thing that we calculated,
    because I would never have put the lives of these three men in any kind
    of jeopardy. They were just determined to stay until the last moment.
    And they had, literally, when they reached that agreement, they had 30
    more minutes before I--I told President Carter, I said, ``This is
    uncomfortable for me; we've been friends a long time; I'm going to have
    to order you out of there in 30 more minutes. You have got to get out.''
    They had to get out before dark. So they worked it out.
        Press Secretary Myers. Last question.
        Q. Mr. President, there still is this very sensitive issue, as you
    well know, involving the so-called status of exile for Generals Biamby
    and Cedras. They maintain that there is no commitment, no need, and that
    they don't want to leave their country forever. Now, a senior
    administration official last night suggested that while there is no
    formal commitment, the U.S. anticipates that they will leave once
    President Aristide returns and they do receive amnesty. What exactly do
    you believe will happen?
        President Clinton. First, let me say that our objective is twofold
    as a part of restoring democracy and President Aristide. The first was
    to have them step down. The second is to retrain and to help
    professionalize the army and the police forces so that they can never be
    either a participant in or a bystander while gross human rights
    violations occur, and so that they can help to secure the country and
    preserve order.
        It has been our feeling that that was the most important thing. And,
    therefore, that was not an issue that I was ready to let this mission
    founder on, as long as they could achieve that. I think they should
    leave, and I think they probably will leave at some point. But that is
    something that still has to be worked out and something that subsequent
    actions by all the actors in the Haitian drama will have to be heavily
    relied upon.
        General Powell made a comment to me--he might want to comment about
    this because

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    I think it's very important that we not let this issue cloud the
    enormity of what has occurred and the practicality of what is likely to
    occur.
        General Powell. I'd just like to add to that, that I am very pleased
    this morning--the thing I was looking for, would General Cedras be
    cooperating with General Shelton for real--signing an agreement last
    night was one thing, but what would happen today--he is cooperating. And
    so the transition of power has begun. And sometime over the next month
    or so, either as a result of parliamentary action or the October 15th
    date arriving, General Cedras will step down, having done what I believe
    is the right and honorable thing in these circumstances.
        It will remain an issue for President Aristide and General Cedras
    and others to consider where he should go or what he should do. But I
    don't think we need to spend a lot of time on that at this point. Let
    that flow out, and we will see what happens. He is stepping down from
    power, which I think is the important point.
        Q. Last week you told America that these people treated their own
    people shamefully, that they've massacred them and raped them and
    tortured them and did all these frightful things. And now, all of a
    sudden, we've appealed to their military honor. I wonder how you
    detected that, and they're our partners and presumably our friends. It's
    a little abrupt----
        President Clinton. No, that's not accurate. But we did say--I did
    say last week that they had one last chance to effect a peaceful
    transfer of power. And you know, when you've got a country deeply
    divided, I mean, think of the things which have happened in South Africa
    when reconciliation was possible.
        Remember what President Aristide himself said when he came here--
    after I spoke--the next day--he said, ``We have to say no to violence,
    no to vengeance, yes to reconciliation.'' What this delegation did, and
    all this delegation did, was to give these people the chance to do
    something that is, to use their words, was right and honorable and to do
    it in a peaceful way and to have a peaceful transfer of power. And I
    think that was an appropriate thing to do. In terms of the amnesty
    issue, I would remind you that was an issue raised and agreed to by all
    the parties in Governors Island. So that is something that has been on
    the board for quite a long while now.
        Thank you very much.

    Note: The President's 70th news conference began at 12:02 p.m. in the
    East Room at the White House.