[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1994, Book I)]
[July 1, 1994]
[Pages 1189-1195]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Interview With the Polish Media
July 1, 1994

Partnership For Peace and NATO

    Q. You won't mind if I will read. My English is not as good as 
yours, so that's a great help for me.
    Mr. President, the Polish people would like to join the NATO 
alliance, not just participate in the so-called Partnership For Peace. 
What is your intention for the future or for Poland?
    The President. Well, my intention is to support an expansion of 
NATO. But in order to expand NATO we have to get agreement from all the 
members of NATO about when to expand and how to expand.
    I can say this: The expansion of NATO is not dependent on any bad 
developments in Russia or anyplace else, and nobody has a veto over the 
expansion of NATO. But last year when I raised this question with the 
other NATO members, there was a strong feeling that we weren't yet ready 
to expand NATO but that we had to do something to try to create a better 
security environment in all of Central and East-


[[Page 1190]]

ern Europe. And so the decision was made to launch the Partnership For 
Peace that was our idea, the United States idea, to try to get all the 
nations of Europe who would join to agree to do joint military exercises 
and to promise to respect one another's borders.
    Now 19 countries that were formerly in the Soviet bloc or the Warsaw 
Pact countries and formerly Soviet Union countries, plus Sweden and 
Finland have all agreed to join. And we will be having our first 
military exercises in Poland later this year. So the security of Poland 
is very important to me personally and to all the NATO countries. And 
the history of Poland is very much on our mind. But I think that the 
Polish people should feel very good about the rapid acceptance of 
Partnership For Peace, the fact that the first military exercises will 
be in Poland, and the fact that we are committed to the expansion of 
NATO.
    But after such a long time--NATO, after all, has existed for, well, 
more than four decades--I think it's just taking a while for the NATO 
members to decide exactly how membership should be expanded. Meanwhile, 
I think it's important not to underestimate this Partnership For Peace. 
Even when I proposed it, I didn't dream we'd have 19 countries 
immediately join from the former Communist bloc and then two others. 
There is a real desire to try to prove that we can unify Europe from a 
security point of view. And so I will keep pushing on it.

Russia

    Q. Mr. President, President Yeltsin recently said that nobody could, 
how you say, disregard the Soviet--Russian responsibility for political 
and moral support of the countries which for centuries were marching 
together with Russia. It was said, it was broadcasted all over. And 
that's why the Poles, I suppose, American Poles and Poles in Poland, are 
unhappy about the possibility of a renewed pressure and imperialistic 
tendencies. As--[inaudible]--mentioned, his study of Poland is one of 
the examples of what could happen in our part of Europe. Will you be in 
a position to say in Warsaw that the United States would oppose 
tendencies to restore previous--[inaudible]--influence of Russia in 
Central and Eastern Europe?
    The President. We don't recognize the whole sphere-of-influence 
concept. We do know that the Polish people are concerned about that, but 
if you look at what has happened--take two examples: first, the Russian 
troop behavior in the Baltics and, second, in Georgia--I think it is 
possible to put a less threatening interpretation on President Yeltsin's 
remarks--or the Russian presence in Bosnia. Let's take those three.
    I have pushed personally very hard for the withdrawal of the Russian 
troops from the Baltics, and I am looking very much forward to my trip 
there to Latvia. The troops are out of Lithuania, and they are 
withdrawing from Latvia, and I think they will be out of Estonia before 
long. We have a few things to work out there. So there is a recognition 
on the part of the Russians that these are three truly independent 
countries and should be treated as such.
    In the case of Georgia, the United Nations was unwilling to send a 
full-blown peacekeeping mission there because the situation did not meet 
the requirements of the U.N. for peacekeeping. That is, there was not an 
agreement between the two sides in the fight that would permit a 
peacekeeping mission. So Russia was willing to go in, and the Georgian 
Government, Mr. Shevardnadze invited them in as long as there were 
international observers there who could say, ``Well, yes, they're not 
violating any standards or rules.''
    In the case of Bosnia, Russia has asserted its historic interest and 
affiliation with the Serbs, but in a way that has put the Russians in a 
position of pressuring the Serbs to stop attacks on the safe areas, to 
recognize the sanctity of Sarajevo, to accept the peace plan. So those 
are three areas where I would say the behavior of Russia, while more 
active in its area, in its neighborhood, if you will, has been largely 
constructive.
    So I understand why the Poles are more worried about this than 
anyone else, believe me. I know well the history of Poland. I know how 
few years of true freedom and independence the Polish people have 
enjoyed in the 20th century. But I think it's important not to overreact 
to that. We watch this with great interest. And our concern and 
commitment to Poland is great. But I believe that we have a chance to 
work out a constructive relationship where the Russians say, ``We want 
an active foreign policy, but we will recognize the freedom and the 
independence of all our neighbors.'' And that is our policy. That is 
what we are working for.

[[Page 1191]]

Ryshard Kuklinski

    Q. Mr. President, Poles see the attitude of the United States toward 
Poland through some personal experiences of some Poles that served the 
United States. Among the most outstanding people was Colonel Ryshard 
Kuklinski, whom we are trying to get basically back to Poland, to enable 
him to go back to Poland. And there is a big outcry in the Polish 
community that the United States is not doing enough in this matter.
    I have a personal letter--not a personal letter, I have a letter 
from a Polish organization in Chicago to you. There's a translation on 
the other piece of paper. And we are very curious: What are you going to 
do about Mr. Kuklinski? Are you going to mention him during your trip to 
Poland? Are you going to advocate for him?
    The President. This is the first time anyone has brought this to my 
attention. I will look into it, and I will give you a response. I will 
get back in touch with you. But this is the first time I have been asked 
personally about this, so I will have to look into it. But I will be 
happy to look into it, and I'll get back in touch with you. Thank you.
    Q. But you think you will be able to bring this matter up during the 
trip to Poland?
    The President. I don't know. I just don't want to make a statement 
about something I never heard of before I read this letter. I knew 
nothing about this issue before I read this letter. So you'll have to 
give me some time to look into it, and I will give you an answer, yes or 
no. But I can't do it on the spur of the moment.

Russian Troop Withdrawals

    Q. The United States has made a significant investment in promoting 
the Latvian-Russian troop withdrawal agreement. How will the U.S. 
guarantee that the Russian Federation will fulfill its commitment under 
these agreements, in particular the agreement on the Skrunda radar 
facility?
    The President. Well, I think that will be fairly easy to guarantee 
because the United States essentially brokered that agreement. When I 
was in Moscow in January, I talked at great length with President 
Yeltsin about it personally. And then Vice President Gore has worked 
with Prime Minister Chernomyrdin, and we have been very active there. 
And as you know, we promised a significant amount of money to help to 
facilitate the transition. And since I think all sides want us to do the 
investment, I think that our investment guarantee is the best assurance 
that it will, in fact, occur.
    But keep in mind, the resolution of that matter was the requirement 
the Russians had for a timely withdrawal from Latvia. So from the 
Latvian point of view and from the Baltic point of view, I think what 
you want is the appropriate withdrawal, except they will stay around 
there for a little while as we work this out.
    But I feel quite comfortable about that. I see no reason to believe, 
particularly after the major troop components are gone, that the 
Russians won't follow through on their commitment. It's in their 
interest to follow through with on it now that we have this agreement 
and we've put up the money.

Polish-American Radio and TV

    Q. Mr. President, I would like to ask a question, a domestic, 
because I represent the only Polish television outside of Warsaw, daily 
television outside of Warsaw. There are 12 million Polish-Americans 
living in this country. Do you foresee any incentives for businesses to 
produce radio and television programming on the national level?
    The President. I don't understand the question.
    Q. This is a chance to grow, for the Polish--I'm talking about 
ethnic groups like Polish-Americans, Latvians, Lithuanians, to be able 
to have programming on the national level. It means for the businesses 
to have some incentive to--tax deductions--like other ethnic minorities 
have. I mean, the Polish-Americans are not regarded as ethnic but----
    The President. Oh, I see. You mean like the minority requirements 
under the Federal Communications Commission to have African-Americans 
own television stations or radio stations.
    Q. Yes, yes. We are ethnic, but we are not ethnic.
    The President. I see. This is the first time anyone ever asked me 
that. Why don't you--I just never thought about it. Why don't you put 
together a letter to me, write me a letter stating what you think, how 
you think we should do it. In other words, what should be the standard? 
Who should be included? How should we involve other minority groups or 
ethnic groups in this? I would be happy to consider it; it's just no one 
ever asked me before.

[[Page 1192]]

    I do believe--let me just say, for whatever it's worth, I think that 
there is a difference here, though. Because under the law, the idea was 
to get more African-American ownership of general audience radio or 
general audience television. And I don't think that applies to, let's 
say, African-American newspapers or African-American--at least printed 
material. It may or may not apply to African-Americans' radio stations.
    But I will look into it. If you will write me a letter about it, 
I'll look into it, see exactly how it works and whether we should apply 
or consider applying it to others. It's really a matter of law; the 
Congress, I think would have to change the law. But they might be 
willing to do that.
    Q. I traveled to USIA, to the WORLDNET satellite station, and I 
talked to the people there. And they feel that there is a need for joint 
business and government actions. I don't know how you also perceive the 
situation, possibility of changing this----
    The President. I basically think that diversified ethnic press is a 
good thing for America. We have so many different people--if you look, 
Los Angeles County has members of 150 different racial and ethnic groups 
alone.
    Q. And Chicago, 163.

Partnership For Peace and NATO

    Q. I hope I'll be excused for my trembling voice. Mr. President, 
Polish-Americans in the U.S., and all Poles in Poland as well, with 
great anxiety are observing a development of the conception of so-called 
strategic agreement between Washington and Moscow, because it would 
carry away Poland's acceptance to the NATO. Mr. President, what is your 
point of view toward Poland's--[inaudible]--to become a full member of 
North Atlantic Treaty?
    The President. Well, I will answer it the way I answered the first 
question. We first of all believe--I believe NATO should be and will be 
expanded. In order to do that, all the members of NATO, not just the 
United States, must decide on when and how that will occur. From my 
perspective, our relationship with Russia will not and must not include 
the proposition that any country should have veto over any other 
country's membership with NATO or that something bad has to happen in 
Russia before we expand NATO. I just--I think that is not something the 
Polish people should be concerned about.
    Instead, what I think should be emphasized is the readiness of the 
Polish military forces, the success of these upcoming military 
exercises. We are doing military exercises with Poland and NATO in 
Poland for the first time this fall, and it will be the first exercises 
of the Partnership For Peace. So I wouldn't be too worried about that if 
I were the people of Poland.
    I understand the historic concerns; I understand them very well. But 
the United States has not made an agreement to give any country veto 
power over membership in NATO, nor has NATO made a decision that it will 
not expand until there is some bad development in Central or Eastern 
Europe.
    So I think that in the ordinary course of time, NATO will expand, 
Poland will be eligible. I think it will be fine. And in the meantime, 
the best way to build security is to make the most of this Partnership 
For Peace because, in order to get into the Partnership For Peace, every 
country must commit to respect every other country's borders and 
because, once in, we then began to do joint military exercises together, 
which will build the confidence of all the NATO members in expanding 
membership.
    Q. Mr. President, I am wondering, couldn't we start to refer to 
Poland as Central European country and lose the Eastern European 
connotation? Poland was always the middle of Europe, never the east.
    The President. I think of Poland as Central Europe. I agree with 
that. And I think Poland should be characterized as Central Europe. But 
when I mentioned the Partnership For Peace, there are a number of 
Eastern European countries that are also in the Partnership For Peace. 
But I agree with you, it should be considered Central Europe.
    Q. Thank you.

Purchase of U.S. Military Equipment

    Q. Mr. President, you mentioned the possible exercises, military 
exercises, in Poland. There are in Congress, the Senate right now, I 
think, five amendments concerning various aspects of the Polish 
situation. And some of them are opposed by--again, I repeat--opposed by 
the Department of State. Particularly, we are interested in the fact 
that Poland is trying to get the permission to purchase or lease 
military equipment from the United States. And it is our under-


[[Page 1193]]

standing that the State Department is rather opposing of this----
    The President. We support the transfer of certain military equipment 
to Poland. The question is--and we consider Poland an ally and a friend. 
We have no problem there. The question is we have some general rules 
which we apply to everyone about certain kinds of equipment that we will 
not sell. And the issue here is if, as I understand the issue, if we 
depart from the rules we have for everyone for Poland, then will we be 
forced to change our policy in general because people will say, ``Well, 
yes, Poland is your friend and Poland is a democracy, but so are we, so 
you must include us in anything you do for them.''
    So the State Department, when they issue a letter, has to consider 
not just Poland but what will our policy be when someone else comes 
along and says, ``We have been also a friend, and we are also a 
democracy, and give us the same treatment.'' That's really what is at 
stake here. We have no problems with transfers of a lot of military 
equipment to Poland, but we have to be careful if we get into something 
that we don't do anywhere else, how shall we describe the difference in 
the Polish situation and others.

Immigration

    Q. Mr. President, I ask a question about a thing that is not only of 
Polish concern here but of all immigrants in the United States. We are 
kind of noticing a toughening of the policy towards immigrants or 
preparations to this kind of a process. How do you perceive that matter? 
Will you support any toughening of the U.S. policy towards immigrants, 
no matter legal or illegal?
    The President. Well, first of all, I support a vigorous immigration 
policy. This is a nation of immigrants. Only the American Indians are 
not immigrants. And some of them actually came across from Russia 
millions of years ago when we were tied through Alaska to Russia. So we 
are all immigrants.
    The only thing that I have supported is stronger requirements on 
illegal immigration because the number of illegal immigrants is largely 
concentrated in a small number of States, in California and Texas and 
New York, to some extent, New Jersey. And where there is a large legal 
immigrant population, the costs of dealing with that largely fall on a 
few States. And the feelings against immigrants in general tend to get 
very high.
    For example, California is one of the most diverse States--
ethnically diverse States in America. And yet, now there is a great 
feeling there among some people that we ought to shut off immigration. 
Why? Because they have a high unemployment rate and a lot of illegal 
immigrants. So I have tried to help California to strengthen its border 
patrol and to do some other things which will reduce the flow of illegal 
immigrants into California. But I do that because I do not want any 
further restrictions on legal immigration.
    And I think our country has been greatly strengthened by immigrants. 
And I think that all we should want is a set of rules that everyone 
follows for how we expand our population. But I have no plans, for 
example, to try to limit the number of legal immigrants from Central 
Europe or from any other place in the world.

Russian Troop Withdrawals

    Q. Last year at your Vancouver summit with President Yeltsin, you 
promised that the U.S. would provide $6 million to build 450 housing 
units in Russia for officers withdrawn from the Baltic States. There are 
reports that much of these funds administered by the U.S. AID are not 
being utilized to benefit the withdrawing officers. In view of the fact 
that the U.S. will be financing several additional thousand housing 
units for these officers, how will the U.S. monitor that these 
apartments will actually be given to officers withdrawn from the Baltic 
countries?
    The President. What are they saying, that the----
    Q. That the money is actually being allocated in different----
    The President. To people who are not officers or to something other 
than houses?
    Q. Right. Both, actually.
    The President. Well, let me say this. We are trying to get--right 
now we are trying to get a better oversight on all of our Russian aid 
programs in general. But I would say it would not be in the best 
interest of the Government of Russia for this money not to be spent in 
the appropriate way. Because after all, if we make a commitment and we 
deliver the money and they withdraw the soldiers, which they have to 
do--it's part of the deal--then I would think it would not be in their 
interest not to build the houses for the soldiers, because the whole

[[Page 1194]]

idea is to try to stabilize the domestic political situation by doing 
the right thing by the soldiers who are coming home and giving them some 
way to make a decent life for themselves.
    So I think if this has occurred, it is not a good thing for the 
Russian Government and for Russian society. It's not in their interest. 
But we are trying to improve our oversight of all these programs 
because, as you pointed out, we have actually committed to spend even 
more money on housing to get the withdrawal done in a fast way.

President's Visit to Poland

    Q. Mr. President what is your main objective when you visit Poland?
    The President. My main objective is to reaffirm the strong ties 
between the United States and Poland and to reaffirm our commitment here 
in the United States to helping Poland achieve a successful economic 
transition--the Polish economy, as you know, grew by 4 percent last 
year, more than any other economy in Europe--and to do so with some help 
with easing the social tensions caused by the transition. And I have 
some ideas and some suggestions that I wish to share with President 
Walesa and then perhaps in the Polish Parliament, too. You know I'm 
going to speak in the Polish Parliament. I must say I'm very excited 
about it. It's a great honor. I'm so excited; the idea that I will be 
able to address the Parliament, that I will be able to visit some 
monuments of places I've only read about or dreamed of, it's a great 
thing not only for me as President but just for me as a citizen and for 
my wife. We're very excited about that.
    We're also, I might say, very excited about going to the Baltics. I 
grew up in a little town in Arkansas that had a substantial Lithuanian 
population. So I grew up knowing about the problems of the Baltic 
nations. Interestingly enough, we had a lot of people from Central and 
Eastern Europe, a lot of people from the Czech Republic in my hometown 
in Arkansas who came down from Chicago, most of them came from Chicago, 
and moved to my State because it was a little warmer but still it had 
four seasons. So I'm very excited about it.

Poland-U.S. Relations

    Q. Your decision, Mr. President, to consult Mid and East European 
issues with American ethnic groups from this region was widely welcomed 
and accepted with great appreciation. I am talking about this meeting in 
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, you couldn't unfortunately attend. Mr. President, 
will the Department of State continue this kind of link with ethnic 
Americans?
    The President. Yes. We will do a lot of it right here out of the 
White House also. I have had--I am taking about a dozen Polish-American 
leaders to Poland with me. I have had leaders of various ethnic groups 
into the White House to meet with me personally, as well as the Vice 
President's trip to Milwaukee. And we will continue to do this as long 
as I am President. I think it's very, very important. It helps us to 
make good policies as well.
    You know, for example, the United States is today the biggest 
foreign investor in Poland. I think about 44 percent of all the foreign 
investment in Poland comes from the U.S. The Polish Enterprise Fund has 
been responsible for about 10,000 new jobs in Poland. And I want this to 
grow. And I think it has to grow through the involvement of citizens, 
not just government officials. So I will do more and more of that.
    Q. You have my thoughts, sir.
    The President. Thank you very much.
    Q. Thank you.

Ryshard Kuklinski

    The President. Thank you all for coming.
    I will get on this. I did not know of this case; I will get right on 
it.
    Q. Sir, this is not from me, now. I would like to make a statement 
here that this letter is not only from the Alliance of the Polish Clubs 
in Chicago, this really reflects widespread attitude of Poles and 
concern of Poles about Mr. Kuklinski. And we kind of feel that the 
United States has somewhat an obligation to do something about it 
because Mr. Kuklinski helped a lot, contributed so much to the cause of 
the world peace and defeating the Communist system. And now he cannot 
even go back to his own country that he loves and he wants to go.
    The President. I'll get on it.
    Q. Thank you, sir.
    The President: When I was a boy I went to school with a man named 
Richard Kuklinski. [Laughter]
    Q. Oh, really? This can help him.
    The President. I wonder if he was related to this man.
    Q. I hope it will help him as well.
    The President. Thank you.

[[Page 1195]]

Note: The interview began at 6:07 p.m. in the Oval Office at the White 
House. In the interview, the President referred to naturalized U.S. 
citizen Ryshard Kuklinski, former Polish military officer who would face 
imprisonment for espionage if he returned to Poland. This interview was 
embargoed for release by the Office of the Press Secretary until July 5. 
A tape was not available for verification of the content of this 
interview.