    [Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: William J. Clinton (1993, Book II)]
    [November 5, 1993]
    [Pages 1906-1913]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]

    Teleconference on NAFTA With Midwest Farmers, Ranchers, and Agricultural
    Broadcasters and an Exchange With Reporters
    November 5, 1993

        The President. Hello?
        Q. Hello, Mr. President.
        The President. How are you?
        Q. Well, pretty good today, sir. How are you?
        The President. I'm great. Thank you for taking this time to visit
    with us.
        Q. Thank you for affording us the opportunity.
        The President. I know that all of you have some questions, but I'd
    like to make just a brief opening statement, if I might. As all of you
    know, I think, before I took this job I was a Governor of an
    agricultural State, and I learned very early that the future of
    agriculture in America is in exports. We've got over 700,000 agriculture
    jobs in America today that are export-related. And if NAFTA passes, that
    number will continue to rise, meaning more jobs for people in our farm
    communities.
        I know now that a big part of my job as President is going to be to
    continue to raise more and more opportunities for exports in America,
    and I'm doing that and the negotiations we have going on with Japan now,
    we even have some hopes that we're going to be able to sell some rice in
    Japan before too long, which is a big issue for farmers in my part of
    the country.
        We're working hard across the board to get a new GATT agreement that
    will open agricultural markets for our farmers. And NAFTA is a part of
    our comprehensive strategy to boost farm income.
        Since 1986, our agricultural exports to Mexico have nearly tripled.
    Mexico is now our fastest growing major export market. In 1992 we
    exported almost $4 billion worth of products to Mexico, 40 percent
    higher than 1990. And the Agriculture Department--and Secretary Espy is
    here with me today as you know--estimates that we will export $2.6
    billion more with NAFTA than without it by the end of the transition
    period in the agreement.
        So I think this is a good deal for our farmers. It's an even better
    deal this week than it was last week because of some of the agreements
    made by the Mexican Government affecting sugar and citrus and, to a
    lesser extent, vegetables. But it is clearly a good thing for America's
    farmers. That's why most of the major farm groups have endorsed it. And
    I'm looking forward to discussing it with the farmers today and with the
    people from the ag radio networks. So maybe we ought to get right into
    your questions and go forward.
        I think Howard Hardecke is first. Is that right?
        Q. That is correct, Mr. President.
        The President. I remember when I was at your school.
        Q. You're kidding.
        The President. [Inaudible]--it was a great night.
        Q. Yes, it was.
        The President. My second grade teacher was there. I hadn't seen her
    since she left Arkansas. She was my second and third grade teacher. I
    really enjoyed that.

    [At this point, Mr. Hardecke asked if other cattle-producing countries
    could import cattle duty-free through Mexico under NAFTA.]

        The President. That's a good question. And believe it or not, it's a
    question that applies not only to agriculture but to some of our
    manufacturing. We have strict rules of origin that apply to our
    agriculture as you know already----
        Q. Yes.
        The President. ----and there is nothing in the NAFTA agreement which
    changes that, so that the rules of origin that apply to Australian

    [[Page 1907]]

    beef coming here directly would apply to them with equal force after
    NAFTA passes if they pass through Mexico. In other words, there's no
    loophole in the agreement to escape our rules of origin. So you'll be
    all right with that.
        Q. Okay, appreciate it.
        The President. Thank you. Terry Baer, are you next?
        Q. Yes, sir.
        The President. Howard, did you have another question? I want to make
    sure I've got this right, now.
        Q. We were told we had one question, so----
        The President. Okay. Well, go ahead, Terry.
        Q. Okay. Greetings, Mr. President, from central Illinois. I live
    near Edelstein, Illinois, which is near Peoria in central Illinois, and
    I have a grain production operation, consisting of corn and soybeans,
    and then I also work at Caterpillar, Inc., in Peoria.
        The President. Good for you. I've been there.
        Q. Yes well, I personally met you there when you were campaigning.
        The President. It's a great company.
        Q. Yes it is, and I'm glad they're as close to my farm as they are.
    It works out real well.
        The President. It cuts the transportation cost of the equipment,
    too, doesn't it?
        Q. It sure does. So, Mr. President, I have a question on NAFTA for
    you. And that is, if NAFTA does not pass, what efforts do you see of
    Mexico forming treaties with other countries who also compete for the
    same markets as our U.S. farmers, and what effect might that have on our
    future farm economy and foreign competition for our U.S. products?
        The President. I think it'll make it a lot tougher on us. Keep in
    mind Mexico has been opening its economy, its purchases of foreign
    products have been going up across the board. They want to give us some
    special opportunities to export into the Mexican market in return for
    being able to attract more investment to their country. So they will
    have to pursue their strategy of getting more investment and opening
    their markets to get it somewhere else if we don't take advantage of
    this. And, therefore, it could be an enormous setback for us. It would
    just give our competitors a big leg up in one of the fastest growing
    markets in the world.
        And of course, depending on whom they reached out to, it could
    really hurt the farmers. If the European Community, for example, decided
    that they would try to replace the United States in NAFTA, it could
    really foreclose a lot of farm markets. You know all the troubles we've
    been through just trying to get a new GATT agreement. I'm very, very
    concerned about it.
        I would also point out to all the farmers who are listening that we
    believe if we do NAFTA, and Mexico as the example will lead us to the
    same opportunities in other Latin American countries with big
    possibilities for agricultural exports of all kinds. So I think it's a
    big plus if we do it, but frankly I think we have to face the fact that
    Mexico has got to have a plan B. And if we turn out to be unreliable, if
    we can't see through this trade agreement, they will be forced to turn
    elsewhere to try to get capital and in return for that will almost
    certainly be willing to give the same kind of extra access to their
    market that the United States now has just for the asking if we'll go
    ahead and adopt this agreement.
        Q. Well, I agree with you if they do seek treaties with other
    countries and we fail to ratify NAFTA, it will put us at a big
    disadvantage. And so you feel that Mexico is aggressively seeking
    agreements whether it's with us or whether it's with our competitors.
        The President. Right now they've aggressively sought it with us. But
    they've made it clear, and they've been very much willing to let us put
    some things in this trade agreement, I might add, that have never been
    in any other trade agreement. I mean, they've agreed with us to invest
    more money in cleaning up the environment and to subject their own
    environmental code to the trade controls of this agreement. They've
    agreed to do the same thing with their labor code. No other country's
    ever done that in a trade agreement. So they very much want to deal with
    the United States. Mexican people like American products of all kinds.
    They are now the second biggest per capita purchasers of American
    products, even though their incomes aren't very high. We sell over $40
    billion worth of stuff down there every year. Seventy cents of every
    dollar the Mexicans spend on foreign products are spent on American
    products. And we have a chance to dramatically increase that or run the
    risk of shutting it down. And I think it would be a terrible mistake to
    turn away from it.
        Q. Yeah, I agree, and rest assured that I will do all I can to help
    you get this passed. I would hate to think that our U.S. Congress would
    pass

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    up a chance at free trade.
        The President. Also good for Caterpillar, you know. Caterpillar's
    one of the greatest exporting companies in the whole United States.
        Q. Yeah, I realize that.
        The President. One of the few companies that's been able to really
    triumph in the Japanese market. And the more per capita income goes up
    in Mexico, the better that company will do, too. I appreciate that.
    Thank you very much.
        Q. Thank you.
        Secretary Espy. Mr. President, could I just jump right in one second
    just to agree with you.
        The President. Sure.

    [Secretary Espy stated that Mexico is interested in expanding the trade
    relationship with the United States but would quickly look elsewhere
    should NAFTA fail.]

        The President. Is Bill Wheeler on the phone?
        Q. Hello, Mr. President. Hello, Secretary Espy.
        The President. You calling us from Montana?
        Q. Yes sir, from Missoula, Montana. That's the western part of the
    State.
        The President. I've been there. I know it well.
        Q. Well, we hope that you see fit to come again. We would extend the
    invitation certainly.
        The President. Thank you.

    [Mr. Wheeler described the regional impact on grain producers of
    Canadian grains crossing the border under the Canada-United States Free
    Trade Agreement and asked if NAFTA would rectify that situation.]

        The President. Well, let me first of all say that the agreement
    itself won't rectify it, but it will make it somewhat better, and by
    opening other markets it'll make a big difference. Let me make three or
    four comments. First of all, for all the others that are listening,
    there's been a special problem with a lot of our farmers in the northern
    part--[inaudible]--especially the wheat farmers, because of exports from
    Canada and because the support of the prices in Canada comes primarily
    in transportation supports, something that were not covered. Those
    supports were not covered when the United States negotiated its
    agreement with Canada several years ago.
        Now, under this agreement, there will be certain provisions which
    should help to address the problem a little bit, such as end use
    certificates for Canadian imports that will help improve it.
    [Inaudible]--no, in an attempt to offset the impact of the Canadian
    imports, I approved export enhancement supports for American wheat to
    Mexico recently.
        Thirdly, I've asked the Secretary of Agriculture, now that there's
    been a Canadian election and there's a new Canadian Agriculture Minister
    ready to take office, to go to Canada and to sit down and meet with him
    about this issue, because it is not covered by the agreement, to see
    what we can do to go forward.
        The last thing I'd like to say is, I think that the prices are going
    to go up here in America if we adopt the NAFTA agreement, because the
    primary thing NAFTA does is to give us access to sell more of our wheat
    and other grain crops to Mexico so that we'll have access to that
    market, and that will help to not only provide more sales but, as you
    know, increase the price.
        So I think it will be better, but it does not specifically address
    the provision you don't like from the Canadian agreement that was made
    several years ago. We're going to try to do that in these negotiations
    the Secretary of Agriculture is going to undertake. And I think we sent
    a signal to the Canadians that we're concerned about it when we use the
    export enhancement program to try to sell some of our wheat to Mexico to
    offset what had happened to the farmers.
        Q. Well, Mr. President, if Congress approves NAFTA, when will NAFTA
    go into effect, and will all parties involved sign simultaneously?
        The President. The answer is, it'll go into effect everywhere at the
    same time. But the different provisions are phased in over several
    years.
        Mike, were you going to say something?

    [Secretary Espy acknowledged several weak points in the Canada-United
    States Free Trade Agreement and indicated that NAFTA did not have those
    weak points.]

        The President. But to go back to your question, if we can pass it
    now, it will go into effect starting the first of 1994, at the beginning
    of the next year. But there are some provisions that are phased in. We
    will get the lion's share of the benefits from the tariff reductions
    almost immediately, and we'll see a big increase in American exports in
    1994 if it goes in. But there are some things--for example, some of our
    mar-

    [[Page 1909]]

    kets phase out their protection over a period of 7 or 8 years.
        Q. Thank you, Mr. President.
        The President. Thanks.
        Now, Murray Corriher? Is that right?
        Q. China Grove, North Carolina.
        The President. Where is that?

    [Mr. Corriher briefly described economic conditions working against
    farmers and asked if NAFTA would increase prices enough to allow them to
    stay in business.]

        The President. The answer to that is, it should. Having lived on a
    farm and having been a Governor of a farm State for many years, I've
    learned never to say that something will increase farm prices. But the
    answer is that it should for this reason: There's no question that
    American exports will increase in the aggregate if NAFTA passes, and
    that Mexico is our fastest growing farm export market. Normally, when
    there's an increased demand for products abroad, that has an impact in
    increasing prices at home. That is, unless there is something that
    happens here at home that dramatically reduces domestic consumption,
    increasing demand abroad will increase the prices, because the aggregate
    supply and demand relationship will change. So it should happen.
        Secondly, farmers should have their prices rise because they'll
    recover some of the monies that now go to tariffs in their trade. And we
    know that that will have some positive impact.
        So for those reasons, I certainly would be real surprised if there
    was not an increase in the price and an increase in farm profits. You
    know, most Americans don't know this, but when the cost of production
    goes up 5 times as fast as the price of the product, the only way the
    farmers or any farmers are still in business in America is that we have
    the most productive farmers in the world. But there is a limit to how
    much you can do, and one of the things I like about NAFTA is, by giving
    the tariff relief and by increasing the total volume of agricultural
    sales, we should be able to have a positive impact on the price.
        Q. I certainly hope so.
        The President. I do, too. I wouldn't be for this if I didn't think
    it was going to help you, and I think it will.
        Q. I wouldn't be for it, either, if I didn't think it would help.
        The President. Thank you, Murray.
        Q. Thank you.
        The President. I think we're supposed to turn to the broadcasters
    now, and I think we're staying in North Carolina.
        Bill Ray?
        Q. Yes, Mr. President.
        The President. You're from Elizabeth City, North Carolina?
        Q. That's true. We sure are. The question that I had for you, Mr.
    President, this afternoon is, how do you think NAFTA will affect U.S.
    positions of negotiations at the GATT? What happens if this thing
    doesn't pass?
        The President. It weakens our ability to get a GATT agreement by the
    end of the year because--well, let me back up and say I think most
    farmers know we're worked real hard to open up more European markets and
    other ag markets. As I said earlier, we're working hard to make some
    progress in the Asian markets, in Japan, especially, with some of our
    products. The GATT agreement is critical to that. If we beat NAFTA, then
    other countries who are reluctant to support GATT will say, ``Well, look
    at America. They're becoming more protectionist. Why shouldn't we?'' On
    the other hand, if we pass NAFTA, it will dramatically increase our
    credibility in the GATT negotiations. And it will reinforce our
    commitment and, I think, give a lot of courage to people in the European
    countries who want to do the same thing. The truth is that we've had so
    many hard economic years that nearly everybody thinks we're in a sort of
    a win-lose situation, that there's no such thing as a win-win trade
    agreement. But no wealthy country, whether it's the United States or the
    European countries or Japan and Asia, can grow and increase incomes
    unless you increase the volume of world trade. That's the only way we
    can do it today.
        So we need the GATT agreement. It will help us in the short run, in
    terms of jobs, even more than NAFTA because it involves so many more
    people. Over the long run, NAFTA's going to help us because it will
    bring in all of Latin America. But if we don't adopt NAFTA in November,
    it's going to be hard to get the GATT done in December. And I can't
    promise that every country is going to agree in December, regardless.
    But we will have a much, much better chance to pass that GATT deal if
    Congress will adopt NAFTA. And that's a huge thing for America's jobs
    and incomes.
        Q. Mr. President, it looks like it would be

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    really tough on Mickey Kantor if he has to go back to Brussels without a
    NAFTA deal.
        The President. It will be tough on him. Right after the NAFTA vote,
    I'm going out to Washington State to meet with the leaders of many of
    the Pacific countries, trying to convince them to buy more of our
    products and trying to work out a new trade relationship there. And
    again, if NAFTA passes, I'll have a lot of leverage in dealing with
    that. If it doesn't pass, it will make it more difficult for me to argue
    that the United States is trying to lead a big, broad-based coalition of
    trading nations. And after all that we've been through in the 1980's
    with our industries changing and restructuring, we now in agriculture
    and in industry are the most productive country in the world. We can
    sell anywhere. We can do well even in the countries with wages much
    lower than ours if we just have access to the markets.
        So this GATT thing is a big deal. And if we pass NAFTA, I'll have a
    lot better chance of bringing home that bacon along with Ambassador
    Kantor.
        The next person is, I think, Max Armstrong in Chicago.
        Q. Hi, Mr. President.
        The President. How you doing?

    [Mr. Armstrong asked if Mexican producers would be held to the same
    standard as American producers in areas such as pesticides and food
    safety requirements.]

        The President. Yes. Absolutely. And I might say a related thing,
    since you're calling me from Chicago and we've got a lot of teamsters in
    the upper Middle West and a lot of trucking enterprises: If a Mexican
    truck driver under this agreement stays with a load of produce,
    agricultural produce, or an industrial product or anything else,
    crossing from Mexico into the United States, then that truck driver must
    meet all the same standards that an American driver would have to meet
    on an American highway.
        Our standards control, whether it's on the safety of food or on the
    safety on our highways. And that's very important. That's one of the
    things that we worked hard--and the flip side is true, too. We have to
    comply with their standards when operating in their country or when
    selling food into their country. And one of the biggest problems we had,
    one of the reasons that I insisted on these side agreements before I
    would agree to present this trade agreement to Congress is that Mexico,
    historically, has had some good laws on the books that weren't
    vigorously enforced. And so what we wanted to make sure of was that, not
    only would our laws be observed on food coming into our country but that
    they would observe their own laws, just as we have to observe ours.
        So I think that, overall, the quality of all of these operations
    will go up if we honor that.
        Q. So there should be no concern among U.S. consumers about quality?
        The President. Absolutely not. No. We are not going to permit food
    to be sold here which does not meet the standards that American food has
    to meet.
        And, by the way, we import other food from a lot of other countries
    now, and it's the same thing there. We didn't change that at all, and we
    wouldn't think of it.
        Q. Thank you, Mr. President.
        The President. Is Taylor Brown next?
        Q. Yes, Mr. President, thank you.
        The President. And you're from Billings, Montana?
        Q. Sure am. I'm a long way from Bill Wheeler, but we're in the same
    State.
        The President. You sure are. I've been to Billings, too. It's the
    third biggest State, isn't it?

    [Mr. Brown asked about planned action on the issue of Canadian grain
    imports.]

        The President. Let me tell you what I think I should do first. And
    let me remind you, when I came into office, I raised this issue. I
    acknowledged it. Our Trade Representative embraced it. To send a signal
    to the Canadians that we were serious about this, we used the export
    enhancement program to give our own wheat an advantage down in Mexico.
    We also did it with barley. So I know this is a problem, and I've tried
    to send a clear signal to the Canadians that we intend to see it
    addressed.
        If you've been following this in the last few days, you know they've
    got some issues that they want to discuss with us, also, that don't have
    anything to do with the NAFTA agreement, but two-way trade agreement
    between the United States and Canada. So I have asked the Secretary of
    Agriculture to go up there, and before we take any further action, at
    least sit down face to face with the new government, hear them out, and
    have them hear us out.
        The reason I want to do that is because we do have, still, a
    significant trade surplus in agri-

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    culture with Canada through bread, pasta, and other processed foods,
    including products that contain American wheat. I've always followed the
    policy that before I put another person I'm dealing with in a position
    of retaliating, at least they have to know where we're coming from and
    why. So I want the Secretary of Agriculture to go up there and sit down
    and try to work through this.
        But there is no question that when the last agreement was made
    several years ago with Canada, we did not reach to the subsidies that
    relate to their transportation and to the unique way in which the
    Canadian Wheat Board operates, which every wheat farmer in America now
    understands and which puts our folks in a difficult position.
        I will say again, on the NAFTA agreement, whatever you think about
    that, this is a net advantage to an American wheat farmer because it
    opens more products, more markets to American wheat. And so it'll
    certainly help, and it'll help to get the price up.
        Mike, do you want to say anything else about what you're going to
    do?

    [Secretary Espy said he would continue to work on those problems.]

        The President. Is George Lawson on the phone?
        Q. Yes, Mr. President.
        The President. Are you calling from Wichita?
        Q. Yes, sir. Can you hear me okay?
        The President. I can hear you fine.
        Q. Mrs. Clinton and Vice President Gore were in Wichita during the
    campaign. I hope you'll get a chance to visit our all-American city at
    some point.
        The President. I'd like to. I was there a couple of years ago, and I
    really enjoyed it. It's a beautiful town.
        Q. Can you explain for us how NAFTA will be able to add jobs to the
    U.S. agriculture sector?
        The President. Yes, and let me say since you're in Wichita, I might
    just mention we talked a lot about wheat and grains and how the markets
    will grow there as the tariffs go down. But I also think, given where
    you are and the people that listen in mid-America AgNet, I ought to
    emphasize that Mexico is also one of the fastest growing markets for
    American wheat--I mean American meat, especially processed meat
    products. And all these exports will increase with NAFTA because the
    tariff on beef will be phased out to zero.
        Mexico already accounts for about a quarter of U.S. pork exports,
    and as the tariffs go down, incomes go up, we'll expand those exports to
    Mexico. Poultry exports have increased from $16 million in 1987 to over
    $153 million in 1992, and that demand is just growing like wildfire. And
    interestingly enough, it's a nice compliment to the American consumption
    habits, because of the preference for different kinds of meat. So, I
    think you're going to see obviously more grains, just pure and simple,
    because the tariffs are coming down and because we've got access to the
    market and we can get the grain there in a hurry and efficiently. But I
    also want to emphasize there's going to be a big increase in meat
    exports, too.

    [Secretary Espy added that increased exports to Mexico would lead to the
    creation of jobs in the United States.]

        The President. Is Rodney Peeples--Roddy Peeples?
        Q. That's correct, Mr. President.
        The President. San Angelo, Texas?

    [Mr. Peeples expressed his concern that the President has turned over
    the NAFTA debate with Ross Perot to the Vice President.]

        The President. I thought I elevated the debate by allowing the Vice
    President to debate with him. I don't consider Ross--first of all, in
    the Congress Ross Perot is not the primary problem we've got. The
    primary problem we've got in the Congress is the united, intense, and
    sometimes vociferous endorsement--efforts of the labor movement to beat
    this and to convince Republicans that they basically like, they'll get
    them opponents, and Democrats, if they like, they'll never give them
    money again. So that's the big problem we've got.
        Mr. Perot's arguments have been largely discredited when he's been
    questioned on them and when the evidence has been examined. But it was
    the Vice President's idea all along to challenge him to a debate. So I
    debated him three times last year, and the more we got to talk about the
    issues, the better it got. So I think the Vice President will do just
    fine. I've got a lot of confidence in him.
        Q. And the follow-up question to that one, sir--and this one's
    probably a minor point except for those who are affected by it--water-

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    melon producers in Texas. Can you take a watermelon question?
        The President. Yes. You know I was born in a town that grows big
    watermelons, so I can do that.
        Q. [Inaudible]--and under the yoke of a lot of labor and wage and
    environmental regulations that Mexican producers do not have.
        The President. Yes.
        Q. The question is, is there any chance that the phaseout period for
    the present 20 percent tariff on imported watermelons could be extended
    from the proposed 10 years to 15 years, since the phaseout on the
    tariffs on some of the other crops I'm told are going to be that long?
        The President. I don't think so. We think it's enough for our folks
    to be okay under it. Keep in mind, one of the things that's going to
    happen--and I want to emphasize this very strongly because--and this
    relates to another question that was raised earlier--one of the things
    that's plainly going to happen in this trade with agriculture, even
    though the agreement streamlines customs and inspection procedures, is
    that we're going to have a very vigilant oversight of safety standards
    and quality. And I believe what you're going to see, when you've got a
    10-year phaseout period with Mexican incomes rising more rapidly across
    the board because of this trade, is that you are not going to see the
    kind of economic disadvantage at the end of this phaseout period to a
    lot of the agricultural products that some fear now because the cost of
    production in Mexico, in terms of sheer labor, is lower. I mean, I
    really believe that we're going to do a lot better on some of these
    things than we think. Now we have in the agreement--I want to emphasize
    this--there is a provision in the agreement that allows us to slow
    anything down if there is a so-called surge, that is, if there is a
    totally unforeseeable development that threatens to take out some sector
    of our economy.
        By the way, the Mexicans have the same thing if we do that to them,
    if there's some totally unpredictable or unforeseen economically adverse
    development here in the term of--in the businesses--the surge--that
    there is provision in this agreement to slow that down and take another
    look at it. So there is sort of a safety hatch here. And I think that,
    plus the fact that we're going to be quite vigilant in making sure that
    the safety standards are going to be observed for the production and the
    delivery of our food, will provide the protection that we need.
        The Secretary of Agriculture just passed me a note and reminded me,
    too, that just last--we are this week, we got an agreement from the
    Mexicans to do a yearly review of the impact of this trade agreement on
    all vegetables. So there may be an argument about what a watermelon is,
    but it's included in the agreement.
        Secretary Espy. Yeah, Mr. President, as you said, we are conscious
    of impact on commodities across the board, and we've made improvements
    when it comes to sugar and citrus, but also when it comes to fruits and
    vegetables. There will be a yearly review of impact on fruits and
    vegetables, and if we think that there is deleterious and a huge
    negative impact on American vegetable industry then these agreements
    allow for consideration of a snapback.
        Q. Thank you very much, Mr. President and Secretary Espy.
        The President. Thank you. I want to thank all the farmers and all
    the broadcasters for their questions today and for listening. And for
    those of you who support this agreement, I want to tell you I'm very
    grateful. I think it's a very, very important part of our attempt to
    open America to the rest of the world, to take advantage of the high
    productivity of our farmers and our manufacturing workers, our service
    industries, and to build bridges to the rest of Latin America and to get
    this GATT agreement done. And I know that every active farmer in this
    country understands what it could mean to us if we can pass this GATT
    agreement by the end of the year. I believe that passing NAFTA is a big
    first step to getting that done. It will plainly put America on the side
    of expanded trade and give us some leverage as we go down the road.
        So I hope you'll do whatever you can to tell your Members of
    Congress, without regard to party, that you're for this, that this is
    good for America. And meanwhile the Secretary of Agriculture and I will
    keep working on the problems that all of you outlined today. We won't
    forget them. We've taken the steps that we thought we could to date. And
    the Secretary is going up to Canada soon.
        Mike, would you like to say anything before we get off the phone?
        Secretary Espy. No, sir, I think you've said it all. Thank you.

    [[Page 1913]]

        The President. Thank you for your hard work. Thanks, appreciate it,
    fellas.

    [At this point, the teleconference ended, and the President took
    questions from reporters.]

    Interest Rates

        Q. Mr. President, are you concerned about interest rates creeping
    up?
        The President. No. I mean, what's happened is, the economy's getting
    much healthier. And you've had huge increases in home sales. We've had
    big increases in other economic activity. And when that happens, when
    the economy really begins to show signs of recovery, it's hard to keep
    interest rates at a 25- or 30-year low.
        Because there is no inflation apparent in this economy, I don't
    expect a big increase in the rates. And we're going to watch it very
    closely obviously. But we've had an awfully good run with low interest
    rates, and a lot of people have taken advantage of them. From the time
    we announced the intention to have a serious effort to reduce the
    deficit, until I introduced my economic plan, until it passed, the
    interest rates dropped dramatically. And they've stayed down.
        I was on a plane the other day coming back from one of my NAFTA
    meetings, and two of the people riding with me told me they've
    refinanced their homes this year. And one was saving just under $300 a
    month, the other was saving about $500 a month on the refinancing. These
    things have happened to millions of people around the country, and
    there's still good opportunities there for home mortgages, both for new
    ones and for refinancing.
        But if the economy really picks up, there will have to be some
    movement in the interest rates. I don't think there will be a lot
    because--as long as we can keep inflation down. And I wouldn't be
    surprised, by the way, to see, as one of the experts reported in the
    press today, I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop again. I was kind
    of concerned when we had this big surge in housing and big surge in new
    investments that there might be a little pickup in it. But I'm not
    alarmed by it right now.

    NAFTA Television Debate

        Q. Mr. President, Ross Perot says he doesn't like the idea of the
    debate forum that the Vice President suggested. He says the Vice
    President ought to bring you and some of your spin doctors to his event.
    Is there any chance you'd agree to that?
        The President. No, what Ross Perot wants, as always, is a show, not
    a debate. I mean, he basically wants Al Gore to show up at a rally that
    he's paid for with a crowd full of people that don't like NAFTA in the
    first place so they can shout at Al Gore, and in the hope that the
    shouting will obscure the arguments and the evidence and the facts. And
    that's not a debate or a discussion. What we suggested, and what Al
    did--it was all his idea--was that he call Larry King, Larry King host
    an honest and quiet and straightforward discussion that the American
    people could watch in their living rooms, one that would shed light and
    not heat. And I could understand why that's not Mr. Perot's preferred
    format. I mean, he'd rather have a rally where he's paid for it, has
    organized all these people to come, they're all against it anyway, and
    they shout at Al Gore. I don't blame him, but no sensible American would
    expect that to substitute for a debate. I mean, I think everybody can
    pretty well figure out----
        Q. Do you think he's trying to wimp out?
        The President. Win what?
        Q. Wimp out of a head-on-head debate?
        The President. You know, you all get into that name-calling
    character. I'm not going to do that. I think he's trying to negotiate
    the best possible position for himself. But it wouldn't be a credible
    debate for us to show up at his rally.

    Note: The teleconference began at 1:23 p.m. in the Oval Office at the
    White House.