[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: George H. W. Bush (1992-1993, Book II)]
[October 28, 1992]
[Pages 2044-2056]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office www.gpo.gov]



Question-and-Answer Session in Columbus
October 28, 1992

    Moderator. Mr. President, I would like to ask the first question 
tonight. And first of all, let me just say thanks for joining us. It's a 
pleasure to have you in Columbus, and welcome to our fine State.
    The President. Nice to be back.

Fall of Communism

    Moderator. I want to start with a campaign flap that surfaced today, 
as far as I know. Your opponent, one of your opponents, Bill Clinton, 
has waved a copy of New Yorker magazine, which claims that you said to 
former Soviet Premier Gorbachev, ``Don't worry about what I might say 
during the campaign about the fall of communism in the Soviet Union; 
don't worry about that. I'll explain it to you later.'' What exactly did 
you say to Mr. Gorbachev?
    The President. I said a lot of things to Mr. Gorbachev--I don't 
recall exactly that--because I did worry about the fall of communism, 
and I'm delighted that it happened on our watch. I give great credit to 
my predecessor, because you've got to go back 12 years. A lot of what it 
was about then was peace through strength versus the nuclear freeze 
movement. And some people were so frantic about nuclear war they felt 
the only way you'll get peace is if you have a nuclear freeze.
    We didn't believe that. We stayed strong. We tried to work with the 
Russians. Communism is--international communism or outreach communism--
imperial communism is dead, and I'm very proud that it happened when 
I've been President. But I don't know what they're talking about. I've 
had many conversations with Mr. Gorbachev. I still salute him. I am very 
proud that Mr. Yeltsin has said, ``It was George Bush who first stood up 
for me,''-- when he was on that tank--``first world leader, and he never 
wavered, and that meant more to the failure of the coup and the success 
of Russia going truly democratic than anything else.''

[[Page 2045]]

    So I don't know. I have great respect for Mikhail Gorbachev and for 
Yeltsin, but I've learned to have a little question mark about the New 
Yorker these days. I don't want to start by--in front of all these great 
press, you know, broadcast people, but I've learned something: You can't 
believe everything you read. And so, I don't know what he's talking 
about, but I am very proud of our record and how we handled Eastern 
Europe. A lot of Americans, a lot of Polish Americans, Hungarian 
Americans, Baltic State Americans, go to bed at night without worrying 
about their families the way they used to, saying, thank God this 
administration stood up for democracy and freedom.

Auto Fuel Economy

    Moderator. Mr. Bush, yesterday in Dayton and again in Toledo you 
were warning that Bill Clinton favors increasing fuel economy levels to 
40 miles a gallon, and you were warning that that could cost every Ohio 
auto worker his job. We've talked with United Auto Workers union in 
Detroit today; they don't seem to share that same concern or fear of Mr. 
Clinton, Governor Clinton, and they say that to their knowledge there is 
no one in the industry who is calling for 40 miles a gallon. How do you 
get people concerned about that issue when the auto workers themselves 
don't appear to be that concerned?
    The President. Well, I think they should be concerned. You've got to 
remember the auto unions have endorsed Bill Clinton, for a lot of 
reasons. But I am convinced that 40- to 45-miles-per-gallon CAFE, fuel 
efficiency standards, would throw--I hope I didn't say all the auto 
workers; maybe in a hyperbole or an exaggeration for a campaign I did--
but they'll throw a lot of workers out of work, because they cannot meet 
those standards.
    And it is another example, in my view, of where--it's in Gore's 
book, I believe--where they adopt one position in going to one area, the 
environmental community, then mute it down. Governor Clinton met with 
the leaders of the three major auto businesses with the head of the UAW 
at his side, and said, ``Well, I'm studying it; I'm going through the 
National Academy of Sciences report''--about this thick, all square 
roots and stuff. He couldn't possibly have done that. And I just believe 
that--I am certain that I'm correct that trying to meet those standards 
would throw a lot of people out of work. Not going to back away from it 
one single bit.

Government Gridlock

    Moderator. Mr. President, your popularity after the Gulf war was at 
a record high. Why did you not use that clout, that influence to push 
through aggressively your domestic agenda?
    The President. Have you ever tried to work with this nutty Congress? 
I did try. I'll tell you the difference. When we went to war in Desert 
Storm, I didn't need to get Mr. Gephardt or Mr. Mitchell to go along. I 
made decisions. We moved troops. I took a lot of flak from the press and 
from the Congress, and we shaped public opinion, we put together an 
international coalition; still didn't need anything out of Congress. 
Then I said to them this: I said, ``I would like you to pass a 
resolution endorsing the United Nations resolution. I don't need that to 
commit American forces; there are plenty of precedents in it.'' They did 
pass it. That's the one I'm accusing Governor Clinton of waffling on, 
where he said, ``I agreed with the minority, but I guess I would have 
voted with the majority.'' We got the vote, and we went ahead.
    That is quite different than working with the Congress, this 
Congress, not the new one but this one, in terms of domestic 
initiatives. And I think they made a calculation after the war that they 
were not going to cooperate with the President. The reason I'm convinced 
we can break the gridlock in the future is because they screwed up a 
little tiny bank and a lousy little post office on Capitol Hill. We're 
going to have a lot of new Congressmen, Democrats and Republicans.
    And the best time for a President elected to his second term is to 
go in there and say now, no politics. Don't have to worry about it. No 
more elections, no more debates. Just do the people's business. A whole 
bunch of new Congressmen, some Democrat, some Republican. We can get it 
done.
    But I'm telling you, I tried very hard to

[[Page 2046]]

get the Congress to move on things that would have helped the economy: 
investment tax allowance, enterprise zones, capital gains reduction, on 
and on. And they just dug in and didn't want to do it. Now, maybe I 
could have been more effective, because I am unhappy with the result. 
But I'm very pleased that this economy seems to be growing in spite of 
their--their best chance for me not to win is to have things lousy for 
the American people. And I'm afraid that's an awfully negative attitude.
    So it was a difference. You see, in one area you can just do things. 
In the other, you have to get the Congress to go along. We saw what it 
was like when a Democratic President was there and a Democratic 
Congress. Interest rates were out through the ozone layer at 21 percent, 
and inflation was 15. And the ``misery index,'' invented by the 
Democrats--inflation and unemployment--was over 20. I don't want to go 
back to that. But I do think there's hope here in the new one, because 
they're going to be listening, the new Members, Democrat and Republican, 
to the same people I'm listening to. And when I win, it will be because 
my economic plan, my health care plan, my education plan. So I think it 
will change.
    And the other thing is, on her question, we got a lot done for the 
American people before politics set in, before the war: the Americans 
for Disability Act, brandnew child care legislation. Even afterward, we 
got a highway bill that's going to spend $150 billion. So I'm making the 
distinction between domestic affairs and national security matters.
    Moderator. Mr. President, the voters out here have dozens of 
questions, so we want to get right to them.
    The President. Okay, if I get going too long--I get wound up on the 
answers. So please, you, whoever's the master of ceremonies say, 
``Please keep it short, sir,'' because I know I don't want to abuse the 
process here.

Infrastructure Funding

    Q. This relates to the economy, but why has the administration 
allowed a buildup in the Highway Trust Fund rather than spending down 
this fund to build and improve highways and spur on the economy? The 
same thing is true of the Air Trust Fund.
    The President. We've just passed a--well, some of it has budgetary 
implications--but we've just passed, you know, a few months ago, a $150 
billion transportation bill. It's good, and it's going to get the 
highways building and the infrastructure built. But I disagree with my 
opponent that what we ought to do is add to that. I think we ought to 
get money out, but I think the answer to your question is budgetary.

Urban Initiatives

    Q. Mr. President, given the riots in Los Angeles and the continued 
decay in our urban centers, if elected, what can urban residents expect 
from you in the way of plans and actions over the next 2 or 3 years of 
your administration?
    The President. I think they can expect a revitalization of the 
cities, because here's what's going to happen: After South Central--and 
I went out there and I invited Mayor Bradley, Governor Wilson of 
California, and Peter Ueberroth, who's working the private sector side, 
trying to bring businesses into the urban areas, to come back to 
Washington. We met with the Democratic leadership that I was just 
assailing here and sat down with them: the Speaker, the leaders in both 
Houses, Republican and Democrat. And the Mayor and those others said the 
one thing we need for the cities, or the one thing we all agree on is we 
need urban enterprise zones. Ueberroth, the other day, decried the fact 
that we haven't gotten them.
    I believe that people want that now. I believe that the Congress, in 
the new Congress, will move on urban enterprise zones. We've got a good 
program that is already working, that has bipartisan support, just 
getting started, called ``Weed and Seed'': weed out the criminal 
elements and try to hit this drug thing head-on, and seed the 
neighborhood with hope. I believe our homeownership and tenant 
management approach is going to prevail in the next Congress, and the 
enterprise zones.
    And the other point I'll make on the mayors is, they came, the 
National League of City mayors came--separate meeting--and they said to 
me, the main cause of

[[Page 2047]]

urban decay or decline is the decline in the American family. That was 
Tom Bradley of Los Angeles, it was a Republican Mayor out of Plano, 
Texas, and all across the spectrum. It wasn't liberals, it wasn't 
conservatives; it wasn't Democrats, it wasn't Republicans. He was 
talking about finding ways to strengthen the American family. I insist 
that we have to find ways. And mine are support for law enforcement, 
choice in child care and schools and whatever it is.
    But I think the agenda that I've just outlined here has a very good 
chance of getting through the next Congress. Some of it is coming my way 
in legislation that I won't sign because it's hooked into major tax 
increases. But I think a new Congress is going to want to do exactly 
what you're saying: Let's help these cities. And I think they're going 
to want to help them along the philosophical lines I've outlined here.

Economic Issues

    Q. Mr. President, throughout the election, it has been said that you 
are not in touch with the average American. Tonight I'm considering 
casting a vote for Mr. Clinton for that and several other reasons. How 
can you convince me tonight that you do understand the concerns of the 
average American?
    The President. Well, that's a pretty hard sell if you're thinking of 
voting for Clinton, because I would think you'd look at the whole 
record, including the Arkansas record. I think you would look at the 
rhetoric, if you're an accountant. We'd been told that this country--by 
the Democrats--that we're in a big recession. We have had growth for the 
last six quarters. And I have been saying we're not in a recession. And 
people like Governor Clinton are saying I am out of touch, aided and 
abetted by a lot of, you know, talking heads on the television, some 
Republicans and some Democrats. I believe I am in touch. I believe I 
understand what's needed. And I think the philosophy of Government that 
I have would better help the average working man.
    Let me give you an example: Governor Clinton talks about having 
Government invest, to use his--and he puts that to, exact quote, invest. 
It is not Government that creates any meaningful job and expands the 
economy. Government takes your money, and you know this as an 
accountant, and goes about investing it. Well, it's not investment. It 
is spending. What we need to do is do what I've suggested to spur small 
business. As an accountant, try this one on: investment tax allowance, 
capital gains. It is not a tax break for the rich. It will stimulate, in 
my view, entrepreneurship. And I like the credit, $5,000 credit for the 
first-time homebuyer, because I think it would stimulate the housing 
business and also all the businesses that go into it.
    He wants to invest, take $220 billion and let somebody back in 
Washington invest it, and I don't. I want to free up, through less 
spending and hopefully less taxation, the private sector.
    And so we have a big difference on that. And I would say the 
fundamental philosophy is different. And if you think that we need more 
Government and more spending on that level, you may go with Governor 
Clinton, but I'd ask you to look at the Arkansas record. I'd ask you to 
look at the rhetoric that's been used against me up until yesterday when 
people saw that we are growing and that our economy is better than Japan 
and Germany and Europe, although we were told that we've got to do more 
like Japan and Germany. This is no time to move toward European 
nationalism or whatever you want to call it. They're moving toward us.
    So I've got a big philosophical difference with him, and how you 
decide on these economic issues should consider that. I'm also asking 
people to look at the overall leadership: who do you trust if a crisis 
comes up, and is the world more peaceful, and all that kind of thing. So 
I hope I can win you over. Maybe not. I'll put you down as doubtful at 
this point. [Laughter]
    Moderator. Mr. President, going back to his question, though, about 
being out of touch----
    The President. Yes.
    Moderator. ----with the American people. You've been in office for 4 
years. The campaign has really only been hot and heavy for the last 
year, even the last 6 months.

[[Page 2048]]

    The President. Yes.
    Moderator. How do you account then for this perception among so many 
people that you are out of touch?
    The President. Propaganda by the enemy--opposition. They keep 
hammering that. They keep saying that. And it's not true. How do you 
account for the fact that many people in your business keep telling the 
country we're in a recession when we've grown for 6 straight months? 
That's six straight quarters now. I mean, that's not out of touch to say 
that. And I say it, and people say, ``You're out of touch.'' When I say 
we've grown at 2.7 percent, that's pretty fair growth. I also add, a lot 
of people are hurting, and a lot of people are scared about their jobs, 
so here's what to do to help them.
    But I think it is pure rhetoric on the part of the opposition, 
because I'm in touch all the time. My heavens, I wish you saw all the 
mail that comes in and the phone calls, and share the anxiety and the 
concern I feel. But when you hear that, that's part of the Democratic--
now, the only way that guy can win is to convince America that we're in 
decline and that the economy is worse than it is. And I will win because 
I think I have better economic answers.
    Moderator. Mr. President, this is a fifth grader, and she's going to 
be voting in a few years. But she's got a question I think a lot of 
parents would like an answer to. Betsy, go ahead.

Education

    Q. What do you plan to do about--wait. What are you going to do to 
make it possible for all children to get a good education?
    The President. Improve the existing educational system. This is 
pretty hard for you to realize. We've got all kinds of change in this 
country, and one thing that really hasn't changed fundamentally in years 
is elementary and secondary education. We have a program that you may or 
may not have heard of called America 2000. There are 1,700 communities 
already participating in this program. It bypasses the powerful teachers 
union and says to the local teachers and the parents and the community 
leaders, literally, help us reinvent the schools. So that's one thing 
that's going to happen. In some areas, some urban areas, they say, we 
only want 8 hours. And others might say, we want year-round schools. 
Others are going to try more emphasis on math and science.
    As President, I put into effect, with the help of the Governors, 
including Governor Clinton, six national education goals. It's never 
happened before. They're voluntary, but they set the future for 
education, kids like you. More emphasis on math and science is one of 
them. Another one is every kid must start ready to learn. That means 
Head Start, and we've literally doubled the funding for Head Start in 
this administration. It means nobody's too old to learn. That's one of 
them, more job retraining and more adult education and give people 
credits while they're working to get educated. And so we've got the 
plan. We've got the ideas to revolutionize education.
    And there's one last point: I think parents ought to have the right 
to choose the schools. When I got out of the service they gave you a GI 
bill, and they didn't say you can only use this in public institutions. 
They said you can go wherever you want to college or use this money to 
help you get to college. I want to see the same thing tried in public 
education. Forty-six percent of the public school teachers in Chicago 
send their kids to private school. I want to try this now under our ``GI 
bill'' for kids that says to parents: You choose, public, private, or 
religious. And the schools not chosen will do what's happened in 
Milwaukee where they've tried it. They'll get better. It won't undermine 
the public school system; it will make it better.
    Moderator. Mr. President, just a followup to Betsy's question. When 
you ran in 1988 against Mr. Dukakis, you said you wanted to be the 
education President. Four years later, if you had to grade George Bush's 
paper, what grade would you give yourself?
    The President. I would modestly give myself an A, because of what I 
just told her. Because here's an area that I didn't have to go to the 
Congress for much of it. There was an education bill they passed. If it 
ever lands on my desk, I won't sign it. And why is that? Because all it 
does is put mandates on local school systems and State school sys-

[[Page 2049]]

tems. The same old tired thinking from an institution that also hasn't 
changed, that one for 38 years, Democrats controlling the Congress. All 
they want to do is send me education bills that dictate exactly what 
kind of program you have, some old geezer that's been there forever 
thinking he understands education. We've got education goals, and I've 
outlined here a brandnew and, I think, really good approach to 
education. So others may not give me the A, but I'll admit that that's 
what I think.

Women's Issues

    Moderator. Mr. President, a longtime voter back here. Nellie Lent is 
96 years of age, and she lives in a nursing home in Worthington. She 
wants you to know that she first voted for a President, President 
Harding, back in 1921. Nellie?
    Q. This was the first year women were allowed to vote. It is now 
1992, the year for women. Why should women vote for you?
    The President. That's a good question. I don't know if you all heard 
it. The year of the woman, why should women vote for me? She remembers 
the first year that women voted. I believe that we've got good programs: 
Women, Infants and Children, for example. That's a program that Chalmers 
Wylie, sitting here, knows about. We have vastly increased funding for 
that program. It helps families.
    I believe they ought to vote for me because I think a lot of women 
are in business. We are trying to say, don't let Governor Clinton's 
approach invest Government, grow Government. Get the small business 
going. Women in there are really starting lots of businesses. I think 
that's good.
    Our Secretary of Labor is vigorously fighting against the ``glass 
ceiling,'' which is kind of an artificial barrier to women. And we have 
tried to set the pace. I have three women in the Cabinet. No other 
President's ever done that. We've appointed women to be head of the 
National Institute of Health and head of Social Security, and meaningful 
jobs because they have shown tremendous competence. So I believe on all 
these reasons that I would be a good and, hopefully, effective President 
for women, upward mobility of women.
    Moderator. Nellie, are you satisfied with the President's answer?
    Q. Yes, I would like to shake the President's hand.
    The President. We're going to do that after this. You may be--let's 
see, you're 90--I don't want to--we're in the historical society here. 
My dad was born here and grew up here. Maybe he might have taken you to 
the prom someplace. I'll have to come back and find out.
    It's not that I'm nervous. I went running this morning. I'm still 
pounding the water. Now, go ahead. [Laughter]

Racial Harmony

    Q. Good evening, Mr. President. I would like to commend you on the 
wonderful job you did on bringing nations together to address the 
Persian Gulf crisis and peace talks. I would like to know why you have 
not used that same energy and seriousness to confront the racial 
divisions which plague our Nation. This is a very serious matter to me. 
In reading the letters from the Birmingham jail from Dr. Martin Luther 
King, Jr., he was facing some of the same crises in his time, and that 
was in 1962 and 1963. Here is 1992, and we still have cities going up in 
flames. I still have to look at a white Senate, and it's devastating to 
me. And I would just like to know your response.
    The President. My response is, I have tried to be a President 
sensitive to the elimination of bigotry and of anti-Semitism. Under my 
Presidency we have passed two pieces of civil rights legislation. One of 
them is the Americans for Disabilities Act that is a very good piece of 
forward-looking civil rights legislation. The other one moves against 
discrimination in the workplace.
    I think you're on to something because I don't believe it's a 
question of legislation now. It's a question of what you care about in 
your heart and how you feel. And I hope that my record, dating back to 
when I was a Member of the Congress from Texas, voting for open 
housing--that wasn't easy in those days. And I hope it shows a 
commitment to racial fairplay.
    I have spoken out about it over and over again from the White House. 
But I'm sorry you feel this way, because I really believe I understand. 
I guess I can't say I really un-

[[Page 2050]]

derstand totally what it is like to be a person who is discriminated 
against, but I do understand the hurt. I have worked for--this is maybe 
just one way of sensitizing one's soul--for the United Negro College 
Fund that my brother today heads. And I believe that we have to do 
better in education.
    But on your point, I think I can accept some criticism on that. But 
believe me, I will continue to speak out against racism and anti-
Semitism, move against it if further legislation is required. It is a 
blight on ourselves as a country. I don't want to represent to the 
country who might be listening tonight that I think things are getting 
worse in this department. I mean, yes, we had those South Central riots, 
and yes, we've got a lot of tension, but I don't think it's worse than 
the sixties and things like that. I hope we're improving. But whether we 
are or not, we've got to do better, and so I appreciate you expressing 
your concern. I hope I can demonstrate in a far better way in a second 
term my concern.

Urban Initiatives

    Moderator. There's been a lot of talk in the news lately going back 
to L.A. and to the site of the riots, and a lot of talk about the fact 
that the rebuilding is not happening very fast. Are there things that 
you would do in your second administration that were not accomplished in 
the first?
    The President. I think I've outlined to you some that I'm confident 
can get done with a new Congress. I believe that the whole approach I've 
outlined here on urban America is the answer to South Central. And 
please don't just take it from me, take it from Mayor Bradley. Take it 
from Governor Wilson and take it from Peter Ueberroth, all of whom are 
working very hard across party lines to make this happen.
    I would suggest that people that feel as strongly as I do support 
me, trying to get those kinds of legislation through. I believe a new 
Congress will do it, because there's no more politics, at least for a 
couple of years. And so I think that that's the way we're going to get 
the job done for South Central and other areas.
    I mentioned this ``Weed and Seed'' program. This is good, new policy 
in helping win the fight against drugs and still help the kids. I also 
happen to think that what I said about family is true. The liberal elite 
hates it. But when I talk about family values and strengthening family, 
I can cite the visit from those mayors. And we've got too many teenage 
pregnancies. We've got too many kids nobody knows their name. We've got 
too many that don't have respect for their communities and the law 
enforcement officers and for their own families, their own mothers and 
dads. We've got to do better. And law enforcement is one way to do it. 
The kinds of programs I'm talking are a far more satisfactory way to get 
it done. But we are going to keep working until the problem is solved.

National Debt

    Q. I was just wondering, I've been following the debates and 
everything, and you turned to the cameras during the debates and, you 
said, ``In case of crisis who do you want in the White House?'' And your 
foreign affairs are great, but we are in the middle of a major domestic 
crisis.
    The President. How would you outline it, so I'm sure we're talking 
to the same thing?
    Q. The debt, the $4 trillion debt. Ross Perot says, ``I want to get 
in there, and I want to get that hood up, and I want to work on this.'' 
Bill Clinton says, ``I'm going to be the main guy in charge of domestic 
policy.'' Why are you pushing this off on James Baker? Why aren't you 
the guy in there with the hood up, fixing the engine, so to speak?
    The President. Well, let me tell you what we're going to do. And I 
am the guy. Jim Baker did a superb job in foreign affairs. He did a 
superb job in domestic affairs. You may forget he was Secretary of the 
Treasury, and a very good one. He was the Chief of Staff of the White 
House, and a very good one. Here is an extraordinarily able person.
    But make no mistake about it, nobody's handing off anything. I've 
learned something: You don't blame somebody if it goes wrong, you take 
the blame as President. Once in a while you get a little credit, that's 
fine, as President. But I'm the captain of that ship. I'm the President 
of the United

[[Page 2051]]

States, and I make the decisions.
    Now, Jim Baker is extraordinarily able, and I can't think--you need 
help, and he's the best. He will bring together a new team to get these 
programs through the Congress where it's needed and help me in every 
single way.
    But let me try some things on you--not just open the hood, fix it--I 
mean, you've got to do a little more than that. How about let me give 
you some ideas. Let me give you a couple of ideas. The biggest part of 
the budget--and somebody referred to it back here--two-thirds of the 
budget doesn't come to the President: Mandatory spending programs. Put 
the cap on them. And if I have my way with this Congress I keep getting 
asked about, they will take the tough decision. And I'll have to take 
political heat because it isn't easy. Let the mandatory programs grow to 
population and to inflation,and that's it. No more. They'll grow; they 
won't be cut. But that's what has to happen to get the deficit down.
    Add to that a balanced budget amendment. That got within six votes 
or eight votes of passing. And what happened? If you think I'm down on 
Congress on other things, I'm down on them in this because they got 
something like 12 people that cosponsored the resolution to change their 
votes. We're going to get it in the next Congress. We're going to get a 
line-item veto. Forty-three Governors have it. And my case to the 
American people is if they can't do it, let the President have a shot. 
It's not going to solve the whole problem.
    I like term limits. Keep the Congress close to the people. I like 
the idea that I proposed of a check-off that says to the American 
taxpayer you can check off up to 10 percent of your income tax and that 
has to go to one thing, reducing the deficit. And if Congress doesn't 
bring the spending side down, then you have a sequester across the 
board. And I believe that kind of medicine is necessary. It is not 
simply saying, ``I'm going to fix it,'' it is a specific proposal. I 
believe I'm going to win because people think those ideas are important 
to get into effect. So that's how I'd cope with the deficit, or try to.

Domestic Issues and Foreign Policy

    Moderator. Mr. President, just briefly as a followup, by appointing 
Mr. Baker as domestic czar, can we interpret that to mean that in your 
second term you will pay more attention to domestic issues than foreign 
policy? How would you rank those?
    The President. It depends what's happening in the world. A foremost 
responsibility of the President is the national security of this 
country. And when the history of my Presidency is written, 5 years from 
now I hope, I think we'll have every analyst, every--we'll have a 
library and everybody will go in there, and they'll see how my time was 
spent. My time, much more of it has been spent on domestic matters. The 
problem is, and we keep getting the same question, is I'm having to 
fight with a highly partisan Congress. That is going to change.
    So I will do what I have to do as Commander in Chief, as the 
guarantor of peace. And yes, I take some credit that this little girl 
knows not the same fear of nuclear war that some of you middle-aged guys 
out there knew. You don't have any training drills. If we're going to 
take a hit on the economy being disconnected, how about a little credit 
for world peace and democracy and ancient enemies talking to each other, 
ancient enemies talking peace when nobody dreamed that was possible?
    So I will do what I have to do to guarantee this little kid's 
future. But I am going to continue to strive, and I've thrown out some 
of the ideas, for changing things in a domestic way that helps families. 
And it's a big challenge, but I'm absolutely confident, with the changes 
that are going to take place in Congress--there's already 100 new 
Members, might be 150 coming in there--that we're going to get the job 
done.

Taxes

    Q. Good evening, Mr. President. Mr. President, talking about family 
values and the economy, nowadays there are a lot of us women that 
are choosing to stay home to be with our children, to raise them and 
give them a firm foundation, and therefore providing a job opportunity 
for someone that's unemployed. There's a lot of tax breaks and

[[Page 2052]]

incentives for two-family incomes and for child care, but where's the 
tax break for the family where the mother chooses to stay in the house?
    The President. I don't think--you sounded like Barbara Bush. She 
says what happens in your house is more important than what happens in 
the White House, and she's absolutely right. And that doesn't mean that 
she looks down on my daughters-in-law who happen to work for a living, 
or whatever it is. But I think that you're on to something. But I don't 
want to, you know, promise things. There isn't enough money in the 
world, in the United States, when we're operating at a deficit, to 
subsidize people for doing that which historically many people chose to 
do, stay and look after their kids at home. So I don't want to mislead 
you, but I just don't think we can promise any such thing.
    We do have flexibility in child care. It used to be, well, you have 
to look to the Government for the kind of child care you want. Now we 
work it out so parents can choose and they can get people in the 
neighborhood together or grandparents to look, whatever it is, and not 
have--and you still get support from the Government. But I don't want to 
misrepresent it. I don't believe, given the deficit that this gentleman 
understandably asked about as a young guy, his future being mortgaged 
every day, that we have enough money out there to subsidize those people 
like yourself who have sorted out your priorities to do what I admire. 
And I think that's fine that you're doing it. But I just can't pledge 
that we can give you money to do it.

Interest Rates

    Moderator. Mr. President, families of all ages need help. And Nellie 
that we were just talking to, the elderly woman, so many of those people 
call us every day at the television station and they say that as the 
interest rates go down, their interest on savings is going down. And 
they're on fixed incomes. Can you hold out any hope for them?
    The President. Well, I can't hold out for any hope for saying I want 
interest rates to go up. I mean, I am proud that they're down. And 
families that are overburdened on interest are being able to refinance 
their homes. So I can't say to you they should do anything other than to 
invest their savings in something that yields more money. We have got to 
have a policy of keeping interest rates down. And that is, in the final 
analysis, going to be one of the major stimulants of jobs and 
opportunity, jobs for kids.
    So to those whose earnings are down because they had their money in 
CD's who are now paying lower interest rates because we've been able to 
contain inflation, I would simply say, you know, try to find alternative 
investments because there's plenty that pay more than a CD did or a 
Government bond does. But I cannot represent myself as wanting to see 
some policy that would raise interest rates. I am very proud of the fact 
we brought them down. And I'm very proud of the fact we brought 
inflation down so that saver, that senior citizen you're talking about 
doesn't see his or her savings explode in the cruelest tax of all, 
inflation.
    And I would get a partisan shot in here by reminding people what it 
was like when we had a Democratic President singing the same song that 
Governor Clinton is singing and a Democratic Congress. ``Misery index,'' 
20; inflation, 15; interest rates, 21. We can't go back.

Supreme Court Appointments

    Q. Mr. President, I'd like to change the subject for a moment. I 
believe that many voters who are undecided or those who perhaps might 
even support your candidacy are quite concerned about the record that 
you have exhibited in appointments to the Supreme Court and concerned 
about who you might appoint to the Supreme Court in a second term. And I 
think perhaps that fear is enhanced or exacerbated a bit by your 
allowing Pat Buchanan to speak as he did at your convention. I'm 
wondering if you would speak a bit as to how you would approach likely 
appointments to the Supreme Court in a second Bush administration.
    The President. I'll do that. And unlike the Democratic convention, 
we didn't censor what people said, and we didn't keep people that 
disagreed with that Clinton line

[[Page 2053]]

off the program. That's one thing that's different.
    Secondly, maybe we just have a fundamental difference as to what 
should happen on the Supreme Court. I have put two people on the Supreme 
Court who are constructionists, not trying to legislate from the Bench. 
I am not in the least bit apologetic about Clarence Thomas, nor about 
David Souter, both extraordinarily well-qualified, both passed by a 
Democratic Senate. And I don't think the Supreme Court ought to 
legislate. What worries me is what Governor Clinton has indicated. 
Barbara sat near him at the Italian-American Foundation, and once again 
he raised this horrible specter of Mario Cuomo going on the Supreme 
Court. And you want to get somebody on there to legislate with a liberal 
point of view, then go that route.
    My view is, I don't know where these guys stand on individual, 
specific social issues, but I have confidence in the fact that they are 
not going to legislate but they are going to interpret the Constitution. 
And that's what I look for, and no revisionism is going to make me 
change my mind about Clarence Thomas, none.
    You know, the Anita Hill-Clarence Thomas thing. They say, well, 
they've changed now. Forty-two percent of the people--we live and die by 
these polls--42 percent of the people used to think it was Thomas. Now 
he's a minority, and Anita Hill's a hero. Why? What made people change 
their mind on that? Is it that they suddenly all studied the issues? No, 
they got drummed into them by the women's movements and all these people 
that Anita Hill was a hero and Clarence Thomas is the bad guy. But when 
the American people saw the hearings, and they listened and passed 
judgment themselves, two to one they believe him.
    And so I am proud of him. I'll stand by him. I do not want to 
appoint people to the Court that have a sick point of view that they 
want to impose through the Bench on the people. That's the job of the 
Legislature, and to some degree it's the job of the President. So that's 
my philosophy and that's why I've acted the way I have.
    I looked at my watch during the debate, and I caught all kinds of 
hell from the media. But I'm going to look at it again, openly here. It 
is a Timex, and it now is 16 of--thank you. That's exactly what I did in 
the debate and he--oh, look at--he doesn't know, he doesn't seem assured 
of himself. He's looking at the watch again. I mean, come on. I wanted 
to declare myself. This is the strangest political year I've ever seen. 
Now things are changing, fast.

Family Values

    Moderator. Mr. President, I have a followup question. Thanks for 
looking at your watch so the rest of us could get away with not doing 
it. [Laughter] Mr. Sharp asked you about the role of Pat Buchanan in 
your convention. That goes to some criticism that you have gotten from 
people in your own party about so leaning to the religious right of the 
party that you have alienated a lot of centrist Republicans and 
Democrats, talking about even William Safire's column a couple of weeks 
ago that you've done damage not only, he says, to your own Presidency 
but also to the party in general.
    The President. Couldn't disagree more. Can't be guided by New York 
Times columnists. I've decided to take them on. I used to sit quietly--
hey, he's entitled to his opinion. I don't agree with him, and I don't 
agree about that. And as I indicated, Pat Buchanan ran against me. He 
flailed me out there in the primaries. You've got a short memory, those 
who are asking that question. How do you think I felt about that? That's 
the political process. He's entitled to his opinion, his emphasis. I'm 
entitled to mine. But if your question is, how do I feel about faith and 
family values and that, I've tried to tell you how I feel about it. And 
I'm not retreating from it, because it isn't anything to do about 
prejudice.
    I got a question from Tom Brokaw one night on a nationally televised 
show not so long ago. And he said, with all respect to NBC, he said--and 
he did it in a very nice way, and it wasn't pejorative--but he said, 
``Are you suggesting when you talk about family values that your values, 
your and Barbara's family is better than Hillary and Bill Clinton's?'' I 
said, ``Of course not.'' Of course not.
    What we're talking about, though, is what

[[Page 2054]]

these mayors told me about. And I happen to believe that family is still 
the fabric of society. And when a little kid is born to a 13-year-old 
mother, some way we've got to find a way to have that kid loved by the 
parent and teach values and respect. And it isn't happening. So I am not 
going to move away from that, but I am not going to identify myself with 
the rhetoric of a man that went out and slammed the heck out of me up 
there in New Hampshire.
    So it's a liberal's nightmare, but I call them as I see them. I'm 
kind of proud that our convention didn't try to censor what suddenly was 
the wrath of all the talk shows. But we'll see, we'll see how it comes 
out on election day.

Health Care

    Q. I work for $5.50 an hour. I go to work every day. My boss does 
not supply health care for us. We cannot afford to purchase health care. 
What is your plan, if any, to help us get insurance of some kind so we 
don't have to starve to go to the doctor?
    The President. That's the key, get insurance. What we need to do is 
pass my health care plan that provides insurance to the poorest of the 
poor. Gives a voucher to the poorest, it gives a tax credit to the next 
bracket above that so that they can get insurance, make insurance 
available. It pools insurance, small businesses pooling insurance so 
they get the benefit that a big company has. If you buy a lot of 
something, you get it at a cheaper price. If you buy a lot of insurance, 
you get it at a cheaper price. If you pool small businesses so they 
represent a lot of purchases, you get insurance at a cheaper price. That 
is a part of it.
    The other part of it is, we've got to go against this malpractice 
that is driving costs up to $25 billion to $50 billion. Doctors don't 
dare to deliver babies because of some frivolous suit, or hospitals say, 
give this guy three tests to protect us against a malicious lawsuit.
    My program to control, put lids on these limitless lawsuits is 
really going to help bring health care costs down. And so will the 
pooling. And another thing about our plan is, right now people go to the 
emergency room and the hospital is stuck with the bill. The people don't 
have insurance. If you have insurance, that takes a burden off the 
hospitals.
    So we do have a good plan, and it really helps small business, I 
think. I don't know whether your employer is large or small, but whoever 
you work for, you'll be able to get it as an individual, and it will be 
portable. You take it with you if you find another job.
    Who is in charge of the water here? Anybody? Here's one. Here, I'll 
just wander down like Phil Donahue and get myself a water. [Laughter] 
There you go. Thank you. That's great.
    All right, shoot. I can hear you, sir.

Unemployment

    Q. Psychological studies of unemployed people have been viewed as 
suffering from unemployment neurosis. The most prominent symptom is not 
depression but apathy. The blacks of America suffer disproportionately 
from this neurosis, as well as many other Americans. This mental state 
makes people incapable of grasping the helping hand which may be 
extended to them. Mr. Bush, for our information, what form has your 
helping hand taken, and how do you view the American jobless reaction to 
that hand?
    The President. Well, I'm not a psychiatrist, and that's a very--I 
didn't know that. What I do know is, we're trying very hard with the 
programs I've outlined to give people jobs, break the cycle of 
dependency and welfare. And we have indeed given waivers to many States 
to change the welfare system that just breeds dependency.
    You talk about a psychological neurosis. How would a kid feel, born 
into a, say, third or fourth generation? We've got to break that cycle. 
Learnfare and workfare--many of the States are trying, and I, through 
Dr. Lou Sullivan, our black Secretary of HHS who is a superb doctor and 
a great humanitarian, is trying hard to break that cycle. But the best 
way to break the cycle is a job with dignity in the private sector. And 
that's why my small business program that I mentioned--regulation, 
taxes, lawsuits--plus what we're talking about in enterprise zones is 
the answer. And we're going to get it done.

[[Page 2055]]

Ross Perot

    Q. Mr. President, I was wondering which of Ross Perot's ideas on the 
economy and the deficit do you like? It seemed so often in the debate 
you and Mr. Clinton both said, ``Yes, I agree with you, Ross.'' And upon 
your reelection, in your second term, any room for a job for Ross in 
your administration?
    The President. Well, not on the tax side of things, because I don't 
want to raise the gasoline tax 50 cents a gallon, I mean, 50 cents. I 
just think that would be bad for working America, and I don't want that. 
So I differ with him. I don't think we ought to touch Social Security.
    What I agree with him on is putting the focus on the need to get the 
deficit down. At the debates, there wasn't that much time, nor were 
there many specifics as to how to do that. I don't agree with him that 
what I've subsequently learned he's proposed, because it will, in my 
view, screech a fragilely growing economy to a halt. I just don't think 
it needs that kind of a shock.
    I do agree with him on what we're doing about mortgaging the future 
of various people. I don't agree with him when he says we gave Saddam 
Hussein permission to take the northern part of Kuwait. That is simply 
not true. So we agree, I do agree with him on his dedication to trying 
to get the help on the POW question.
    So I have some places I agree, some places I don't. Hey, but listen, 
I need all the help I can get. So, I don't know about future jobs, but 
let's get this election over, and then we'll see.
    I think this claim the other day, I mean, that thing was strange, 
and I don't agree with him about that, obviously.

Ronald Reagan

    Q. Mr. President, Ronald Reagan ran two of the most successful 
campaigns that we've ever seen in history. His influence or assistance 
in your campaign, and I don't mean him personally but maybe his camp of 
people, seems to be absent. Because I know part of the strategy in a 
campaign is to reach those voters that may be undecided, there is always 
a faction that will vote for you no matter what you do, and that faction 
that won't vote for you no matter what you do. But why haven't you 
enlisted his people or him more to assist you in this campaign?
    The President. Coincidence. Ronald Reagan will be going either 
tomorrow or the next day for me to North Carolina and someplace else. 
He's agreed to do it, and I hope he does. I campaigned at his side in 
Orange County. He has been more than helpful in everything we've asked 
him to do. You know, I had a meeting with the former--the Reagan Alumni 
Association, I think they call themselves, in Washington, headed by Ed 
Meese, remember, who used to be--very, very supportive.
    So if there's a perception that they are not helping, I think that's 
an unfair perception. I hope that the more recent visits by the 
President will be focused on, because I can't ask for any more from him 
than what he's doing to be supportive. And the things he was saying, 
even my mother would have blushed when she heard the nice things he said 
about what we're trying to do. So he's with us.

Child Support

    Q. Mr. President, I'd like to ask you about your views concerning 
another national tragedy: the billions of dollars owed single parents in 
uncollected child support. Presently 20 percent of the children in this 
county are living at or below the poverty level. As a trial attorney, 
what can I tell my clients about your future efforts, if you're elected 
next week, to eliminate this national dilemma?
    The President. Tell them I just signed a bill last week, and that 
bill goes after the deadbeat dads. And it was passed by this Congress, 
thus demonstrating we can, even with them, get something done. And what 
it did was, where they needed Federal support, whether it's a passport 
or anything else, crack down on them and see that Federal support no 
longer--or any--Federal permission really to do things is not granted to 
those who are running away and leaving these people.
    Because what happens, as you know, I'm sure, far better than I do 
because of your concern for usually the mother, that spouse, is that 
these people go across State lines. And until this legislation was 
passed, they

[[Page 2056]]

haven't been able to go at them. So I believe that legislation is a good 
step towards cracking down on these people who you're after, and will be 
helpful to those mothers, normally, that you're trying to help.

Closing Statement

    Moderator. Mr. President, thanks for answering all of our questions 
in the past hour. And according to my old broken watch, we have about a 
minute left for you to make a closing statement, sir.
    The President. Can it be a direct appeal? I hate to have this many 
voters--I mean, is there any restriction on it?
    Well, let me just say that, one, thank you for everybody that did 
this, including the Historical Society and the Association of 
Broadcasters.
    But look, this has been a terrible year in a sense. I believe I'm 
going to win the election. And I'm going to ask for everybody's support 
here. We have tried very hard to keep the public trust. We've had a 
clean administration. We've tried to serve with honor. We've literally 
changed the world through leadership. And what I'm asking people is 
this: Look, you're going to the polls, consider character. It is 
important.
    Clinton's wrong when you said it's ``the character of the 
Presidency,'' not the President. The President's character shapes the 
Presidency. They are interlocked. And I hope I have demonstrated the 
character. I hope I've earned the trust of the American people. I see 
this economy moving. I believe that our programs that I've outlined will 
lift up everyone that's hurting and give them a much better shot at the 
American dream. So that would be my appeal.
    I must say in conclusion, I have never felt such a sea change in 
politics as I have in the last 2 weeks. It's beginning to happen. And 
people are looking at it: Who do you trust? Who has the character to 
serve in the Presidency of the United States? And that's why I'm asking 
for your vote and your support. And thank you all very, very much.
    Moderator. Thank you, Mr. President. We appreciate your visit to 
Columbus, Ohio. I would like to make some quick thanks.
    The President. I think it would be most appropriate if I started 
walking down to say hello to Nellie before she changes her mind back 
there at 91. [Laughter]
    Moderator. I think that's a great idea.
    The President. Is that all right?
    Moderator. Absolutely.
    The President. Okay. Don't move.

                    Note: The question-and-answer session began at 7 
                        p.m. at the Ohio Historical Society. Moderators 
                        for the session were Gary Robinson, president of 
                        the Ohio Association of Broadcasters, and 
                        Columbus television anchors Doug Adair of WCMH-
                        TV, Deborah Countiss of WSYX-TV, and Bob Orr of 
                        WBNS-TV. In his remarks, the President referred 
                        to Peter Ueberroth, chairman of the Rebuild L.A. 
                        Committee; Representative Chalmers P. Wylie; and 
                        Gov. Mario Cuomo of New York.