[Deschler's Precedents, Volume 5, Chapters 18 - 20]
[Chapter 20. Calls of the House; Quorums]
[A. Calls of the House]
[Â§ 7. The Call in the Committee of the Whole]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]


[Page 3579-3595]
 
                               CHAPTER 20
 
                      Calls of the House; Quorums
 
                         A. CALLS OF THE HOUSE
 
Sec. 7. The Call in the Committee of the Whole

    This section discusses quorum calls in the Committee of the 
Whole.(6)
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 6. See Sec. 16, infra, for discussion of the point of order that a 
        quorum is not present in the Committee of the Whole.
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    Prior to revisions of the rule beginning in the 93d Congress, Rule 
XXIII clause 2 (7) provided that in the absence of a quorum, 
which consists of 100 Members, the Chairman of the Committee of the 
Whole should invoke the procedure for a call of the roll under Rule XV 
clause 5,(8) to record names of Members by electronic 
device, unless, in his discretion, he ordered a call of the Committee 
to be taken under the procedure set forth in Rule XV clause 
2(b),(9) to record names of those present by clerk tellers. 
Following completion of either of these counts, the Committee rose and 
the Chairman reported the names of the absentees to the 
House.(10) Those names were entered on the Journal. If a 
quorum of the Committee had appeared, the Committee resumed its sitting 
without motion. Other provisions to be discussed in more detail in the 
supplement, and presently cited in the annotations appearing in 
Sec. 863 of the House Rules and Manual, relate to changes in clause 2, 
Rule XXIII adopted since the 93d Congress.(11) On Jan. 4, 
1977, clause 2

[[Page 3580]]

was substantially changed to allow quorum calls only under the five 
minute rule where the Chair has put the question on a pending 
proposition, after a quorum of the Committee of the Whole has been once 
established on that day. The clause was amended again in the 96th 
Congress to permit the Committee to continue its business following the 
appearance of a quorum so that the Speaker need not take the chair to 
receive the Committee's report of absentees if a quorum has appeared, 
and to enable the Chairman to reduce to five minutes the period for a 
recorded vote immediately following a regular quorum call. In the 97th 
Congress the rule was amended to allow the Chairman the discretion of 
whether to entertain a point of order of no quorum during general 
debate. The last two sentences of the clause, permitting the Chair to 
vacate proceedings under the call in his discretion when a quorum 
appears, were added in the 93d Congress on Apr. 9, 1974.
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 7. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
 8. House Rules and Manual Sec. 774b (1979).
 9. House Rules and Manual Sec. 771b (1979).
10. Rule XXIII clause 2, House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1973).
11. Rule XXIII clause 2(a), House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1981) 
        provides as follows:
            ``A quorum of a Committee of the Whole shall consist of one 
        hundred Members. The first time that a Committee of the Whole 
        finds itself without a quorum during any day, the Chairman 
        shall invoke the procedure for the call of the roll under 
        clause 5 of Rule XV, unless, in his discretion he orders a call 
        of the Committee to be taken by the procedure set forth in 
        clause 1 or clause 2(b) of Rule XV: Provided, That the Chairman 
        may in his discretion refuse to entertain a point of order that 
        a quorum is not present during general debate only. If on such 
        call, a quorum shall appear, the Committee shall continue its 
        business; but if a quorum does not appear, the Committee shall 
        rise and the Chairman shall report the names of the absentees 
        to the House. After the roll has been once called to establish 
        a quorum during such day, the Chairman may not entertain a 
        point of order that a quorum is not present unless the 
        Committee is operating under the five-minute rule and the 
        Chairman has put the pending motion or proposition to a vote; 
        and if the Chairman sustains a point of order that a quorum is 
        not present after putting the question on such a motion or 
        proposition, he may announce that following a regular quorum 
        call conducted pursuant to the previous provisions of this 
        clause, he will reduce to not less than five minutes the period 
        of time within which a recorded vote on the pending question 
        may be taken if such a vote is ordered. If, at any time during 
        the conduct of any quorum call in a Committee of the Whole, the 
        Chairman determines that a quorum is present, he may, in his 
        discretion and subject to his prior announcement, declare that 
        a quorum is constituted. Proceedings under the call shall then 
        be considered as vacated, and the Committee shall not rise but 
        shall continue its sitting and resume its business.''
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    The ``automatic'' vote by yeas and nays (12) is not 
permitted in the Committee of the Whole as it is in the House and in 
the House as in Committee of the Whole.(13)
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12. Rule XV clause 4, House Rules and Manual Sec. 773 (1979).
13. Sec. 7.3, infra, and the annotation to Rule XV clause 4, House 
        Rules and Manual Sec. 774a (1979); see also Sec. 2, supra, for 
        a discussion of the distinctions between an automatic vote by 
        yeas and nays under Rule XV clause 4, and the call of the House 
        on motion under Rule XV clause 2.

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[[Page 3581]]


In General

Sec. 7.1 Where there is a failure of a quorum in the Committee of the 
    Whole and the roll is called, it is a quorum of the Committee (100) 
    and not of the House which must appear under Rule XXIII clause 
    2.(14)
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14. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 836 (1979).
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    On Oct. 12, 1966,(15) a quorum of the Committee of the 
Whole appeared under the following circumstances.
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15. 112 Cong. Rec. 26247, 26248, 89th Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [John P.] Saylor [of Pennsylvania]: Mr. Chairman, I make 
    the point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (16) The Chair will count. [After 
    counting.] Ninety-five Members are present, not a quorum.
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16. David S. King (Utah).
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        The Clerk will call the roll.
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        Accordingly, the Committee rose; and the Speaker having resumed 
    the chair, Mr. King of Utah, the Chairman of the Committee of the 
    Whole House on the State of the Union, reported that that 
    Committee, having had under consideration the bill (H.R. 12047), 
    and finding itself without a quorum, he had directed the roll to be 
    called, when 211 Members responded to their names, a quorum, and he 
    submitted herewith the names of the absentees to be spread upon the 
    Journal.
        The Committee resumed its sitting.

Sec. 7.2 Where a Committee of the Whole finds itself without a quorum, 
    the Chair directs the Clerk to call the roll; at the completion 
    thereof the Committee automatically rises and the Chairman reports 
    the result of the roll call and reports the names of the absentees, 
    whereupon the Speaker directs that the names of the absentees be 
    spread upon the Journal and that the Committee resume its session 
    if a quorum has appeared on the roll call.

    On May 14, 1930,(17) the Chairman, Scott Leavitt, of 
Montana, directed the Clerk to call the roll.
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17. 72 Cong. Rec. 2152, 71st Cong. 2d Sess. See also 74 Cong. Rec. 899, 
        71st Cong. 3d Sess., Dec. 16, 1930.
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        Mr. [Ross A.] Collins [of Mississippi]: Mr. Chairman, I make 
    the point of order that there is no quorum present.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Mississippi makes the point of 
    order that there is no quorum present. The Chair will count. [After 
    counting.] Seventy-one Members are present, not a quorum. The Clerk 
    will call the roll.
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        The Chairman: The committee will rise and report to the House.

[[Page 3582]]

        Thereupon the committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore 
    having resumed the chair, Mr. Leavitt, Chairman of the Committee of 
    the Whole House on the state of the Union, having under 
    consideration the bill (H.R. 2152) to promote the agriculture of 
    the United States by expanding in the foreign field the service now 
    rendered by the United States Department of Agriculture in 
    acquiring and diffusing useful information regarding agriculture, 
    and for other purposes, reported that that committee had found 
    itself without a quorum, that he had ordered the roll to be called, 
    whereupon it was developed that there were present 255 Members, and 
    he submitted the names of the absentees.
        The Speaker Pro Tempore: (18) A quorum is present. 
    The committee will resume its session.
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18. John Q. Tilson ( Conn.).
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        The committee resumed its session.

    Parliamentarian's Note: The precedents carried in this section 
predate amendments to the Rules of the House since the 93d Congress 
which limit quorum calls in the Committee of the Whole and which permit 
the Committee to continue its business following the appearance of a 
quorum without the Speaker having to take the Chair. See the 
introduction to this section.

Sec. 7.3 The provisions of Rule XV clause 4,(19) which 
    permit a member to object to a vote where a quorum is not present, 
    are applicable only in the House; an automatic vote by yeas and 
    nays is not in order in the Committee of the Whole.
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19. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 773 (1979).
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    On June 7, 1973,(20) during consideration of H.R. 7446, 
to establish the American Revolution Bicentennial Administration, 
Chairman Henry B. Gonzales, of Texas, clarified the procedures 
applicable in the Committee of the Whole.(1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. 119 Cong. Rec. 18521, 93d Cong. 1st Sess.
 1. See also 117 Cong. Rec. 40054, 92d Cong. 1st Sess., Nov. 9, 1971; 
        and 116 Cong. Rec. 42232, 42233, 91st Cong. 2d Sess., Dec. 17, 
        1970.
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        The Chairman: The question is on the amendments offered by the 
    gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Williams).
        The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the 
    noes appeared to have it.
        Mr. [Lawrence G.] Williams: Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded 
    vote.
        The Chairman: A recorded vote has been demanded.
        Mr. Williams: Mr. Chairman, I withdraw that. I make the point 
    of order that a quorum is not present, and I object to the vote on 
    that basis.
        The Chairman: The Chair advises the gentleman from Pennsylvania 
    that that procedure is not in order in the Committee of the Whole.
        Mr. Williams: Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order. I object 
    to the

[[Page 3583]]

    vote on the ground that a quorum is not present, and I request a 
    rollcall vote.
        I can object to the vote on the grounds that a quorum is not 
    present and insist on my point of order.
        The Chairman: Not in the Committee of the Whole, the Chair 
    wishes to advise.
        The gentleman may be advised that he may wish to raise a point 
    of order that a quorum is not present.
        Mr. Williams: That is exactly what I have done.
        The Chairman: But the gentleman must be advised that during 
    proceedings of the Committee of the Whole, an automatic vote is not 
    a proper request.
        Mr. Williams: Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order against the 
    vote previously taken on the basis that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Pennsylvania raises the point 
    of order that a quorum is not present. Is that what the gentleman 
    wishes?
        Mr. Williams: No. I demand a recorded vote.
        The Chairman: The Chair will remind the gentleman from 
    Pennsylvania that that demand has been withdrawn.
        Mr. Williams: I did withdraw it before. I am now requesting a 
    recorded vote.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Pennsylvania now demands a 
    recorded vote on his amendments.
        A recorded vote was refused.
        So the amendments were rejected.

Sec. 7.4 Although an automatic vote by yeas and nays may not be taken 
    in the Committee of the Whole, a Member may make a point of order 
    that a quorum is not present.

    On Feb. 8, 1950,(~2) during consideration of H.R. 2945, 
a bill to adjust postal rates, an objection was raised to a vote in the 
Committee of the Whole.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 2. 96 Cong. Rec. 1678, 1679, 81st Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Chairman: (3) The question is on the amendment 
    to the amendment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3. Chet Holifield (Calif.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. 
    Hagen) there were--ayes 76, noes 21.
        Mr. [Harold C.] Hagen [of Minnesota]: Mr. Chairman, I object to 
    the vote on the ground that a quorum is not present.
        Mr. [John E.] Rankin [of Mississippi]: Mr. Chairman, a point of 
    order.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Rankin: A quorum is not necessary to vote in the Committee 
    of the Whole and a vote in the Committee of the Whole cannot be 
    forced by a point of no quorum.
        The Chairman: The Chair will state to the gentleman from 
    Mississippi that the rules require a quorum of a hundred in the 
    Committee of the Whole.
        Mr. Rankin: But the gentleman objected to the vote on the 
    ground there was no quorum present.
        Mr. Hagen: There was not a quorum present as disclosed by the 
    announcement of the vote.

[[Page 3584]]

        Mr. Rankin: It is all right to make a point of no quorum; that 
    is one thing; but to object to the vote on the ground that a quorum 
    is not present is something else.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count. [After counting.] One 
    hundred and sixty-six Members are present, a quorum.
        So the amendment was agreed to.

Sec. 7.5 Although a point of order that a quorum is not present is in 
    order in the Committee of the Whole, it does not precipitate an 
    automatic vote by yeas and nays, notwithstanding the fact that it 
    was raised immediately after a vote on which less than a quorum 
    voted

    See the proceedings of Aug. 21, 1950,(4) during 
consideration in the Committee of the Whole of H.R. 9313, a bill to 
amend the Agricultural Act of 1949.(5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 4. 96 Cong. Rec. 12960, 12961, 81st Cong. 2d Sess.
 5. See Sec. 16.2, infra.
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Sec. 7.6 In a statement preceding introduction of the electronic voting 
    system, the Speaker announced a revised schedule of the electric 
    bell and light signals, including a provision for votes in the 
    Committee of the Whole.

    On Jan. 15, 1973,(6) Speaker Carl Albert, of Oklahoma, 
announced the revised schedule of legislative electric bell and light 
signals.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 6. 119 Cong. Rec. 1055-57, 93d Cong. 1st Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Chair has directed that the bell and light system be 
    utilized in the following manner:
        One bell indicates a teller vote, taken in accordance with 
    clause 5, Rule I (Members indicate their preference by walking up 
    the center aisle and being counted by Members who are named as 
    tellers by the Chair. This is not a recorded vote).
        Two bells indicate an electronically recorded vote, either 
    demanded under the Constitution by one-fifth of those present (in 
    the House) or by one-fifth of a quorum under clause 5, Rule I 
    (either in the House or in Committee of the Whole). Two bells may 
    also indicate a recorded vote under clause 5 Rule I whenever 
    Members are to record their votes by depositing ballot cards in the 
    ``aye'' or ``no'' boxes. The two bells will be repeated five 
    minutes after the first ring to give Members a second notice of the 
    vote in progress.
        Two bells, a brief pause, followed by two bells indicates a yea 
    and nay vote taken under the provisions of Rule XV, clause 1, by a 
    call of the roll. The bells will be sounded again when the Clerk 
    reaches the ``R's'' in the first call of the roll.
        Three bells indicate a quorum call, either by means of the 
    electronic system (Rule XV, clauses 2 and 5) or by means of tellers 
    (Rule XV, clause 2(b)).

[[Page 3585]]

    The bells will be repeated five minutes after the first ring to 
    give Members a second notice of the quorum call in progress.
        Four bells indicate an adjournment of the House.
        Five bells indicate a recess of the House.
        Six bells indicate a civil defense warning.

Counting Members

Sec. 7.7 Where a point of order that a quorum is not present in the 
    Committee of the Whole is made, a motion that the Committee rise is 
    privileged. In the event that the motion is defeated, but by a vote 
    which fails to indicate the presence of a quorum, the Chair may 
    count those present in the Chamber who failed to vote; if those, 
    together with those who did vote, constitute a quorum, the Chair so 
    announces and the Committee proceeds with its business.

    On Jan. 10, 1931,(7) the Chairman, John Q. Tilson, of 
Connecticut, in order to make a quorum, counted Members he observed not 
voting.
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 7. 74 Cong. Rec. 1946, 71st Cong. 3d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Tilman B.] Parks [of Arkansas]: Mr. Chairman, I make a 
    point of order of no quorum.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. Parks] makes a 
    point of order that there is no quorum present.
        Mr. [William H.] Stafford [of Wisconsin]: Mr. Chairman, I move 
    that the committee do now rise.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Stafford] moves 
    that the Committee do now rise.
        The question was taken, and the Chairman announced that the 
    noes appeared to have it.
        Mr. Stafford: Mr. Chairman, I ask for tellers on the vote.
        Tellers were ordered and the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. 
    Stafford] and the gentleman from Arkansas [Mr. Parks] were 
    appointed tellers.
        The committee again divided, and the tellers reported that 
    there were--ayes 2 and noes 87.
        So the motion to rise was rejected.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count. [After counting.] The Chair 
    has been able to count over 20 Members in the Chamber who did not 
    pass between the tellers. A quorum is present.
        Mr. Parks: Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Parks: On the report of the tellers there were 87 in the 
    negative and 2 in the affirmative. Is that correct?
        The Chairman: That is correct.
        Mr. Parks: Does the Chair announce that that number constitutes 
    a quorum?
        The Chairman: It is not a quorum, but the Chair counted more 
    than 20 Members who did not pass between the tellers. There are 
    more than 100 Members present in the Chamber at this moment by 
    count of the Chair. A

[[Page 3586]]

    quorum is present, and the gentleman from Mississippi is 
    recognized.

Sec. 7.8 After the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole announced 
    that a quorum was not present, a quorum was established on a teller 
    vote rejecting a motion that the Committee rise.

    On Feb. 28, 1945,(8) during consideration of H. R. 2374, 
the first defense appropriation bill of 1945, a quorum was established 
on a teller vote.
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 8. 91 Cong. Rec. 1576, 1577, 79th Cong. 1st Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Francis H.] Case of South Dakota: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (9) The Chair will count. [After 
    counting.] Fifty-eight Members are present, not a quorum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 9. John J. Sparkman (Ala.).
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        Mr. [Clarence] Cannon of Missouri: Mr. Chairman, I move that 
    the Committee do now rise.
        The Chairman: The question is on the motion offered by the 
    gentleman from Missouri.
        The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. 
    Cannon of Missouri) there were--ayes 27, noes 52.
        Mr. Cannon of Missouri: Mr. Chairman, I demand tellers.
        Tellers were ordered, and the Chairman appointed as tellers Mr. 
    Cannon of Missouri and Mr. Taber.
        The Committee again divided; and the tellers reported that 
    there were--ayes 57, noes 61.
        So the motion was rejected.
        The Chairman: A quorum is present. The gentleman from New York 
    is recognized.

Sec. 7.9 Parliamentarian's Note: The Chair's count of a quorum is not 
    subject to verification or appeal, and in recent practice, the 
    Chair has refused to recognize a demand for tellers to verify his 
    count of a quorum.

    On May 20, 1949,(10) during consideration of H.R. 4591, 
providing for pay, allowances, and physical disability retirement for 
members of the armed forces, the Chair (11) refused tellers.
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10. 95 Cong Rec. 6556, 81st Cong. 1st Sess. See also 8 Cannon's 
        Precedents Sec. Sec. 3112-3118.
11. Oren Harris (Ark.).
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        Mr. [Frank B.] Keefe [of Wisconsin]: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count. [After counting.] One 
    hundred and five Members are present, a quorum.
        Mr. [Carl] Vinson [of Georgia]: Mr. Chairman, I demand tellers.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Georgia has demanded tellers. 
    The gentleman from Wisconsin made the point of order that a quorum 
    was not present. The Chair counted 105 Members present. At this 
    time there is no question before the House on which tellers can be 
    ordered.

[[Page 3587]]

Sec. 7.10 The Chair kept a constant count of the Members present in a 
    Committee of the Whole to forestall counting due to points of no 
    quorum and his count was not subject to challenge by a demand for 
    tellers thereon.

    On May 4, 1933,(12) during consideration of H.R. 5390, a 
deficiency appropriation bill, Chairman Sam D. McReynolds, of 
Tennessee, kept a constant count of Members.
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12. 77 Cong. Rec. 2894, 73d Cong. 1st Sess.
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        Mr. [T. Jeff] Busby [of Mississippi]: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that there is not a quorum present. I think this is 
    going to be a good speech.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count. [After counting.] One 
    hundred and ten gentlemen present, a quorum.
        Mr. Busby: Mr. Chairman
        The Chairman: The Chair has kept the House counted with a view 
    to being able to state how many gentlemen are in the Chamber.
        Mr. Busby: Mr. Chairman, I have some rights in this matter, and 
    they are not to be dealt with in this sort of way.
        Mr. [Edward W.] Goss [of Connecticut]: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that there can be no appeal from the decision of the 
    Chair.
        Mr. Busby: I ask for tellers on the count of the Chair.
        The Chairman: The Chair will state for the information of the 
    Committee that the Chair has been sitting here counting the House, 
    and has kept a memorandum of the number. There were 92 gentlemen in 
    the House when the point was made, and some 15 or 20 have come in 
    from the cloakroom since.
        Mr. Busby: Mr. Chairman, I ask for tellers on the count of the 
    Chair.
        The Chairman: It is only necessary for the Chair to announce 
    the number present.
        Mr. Busby: I ask for tellers on the count of the Chair. Does 
    the Chair refuse to proceed?
        Mr. Goss: Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order there can be 
    no appeal from the decision of the Chair.
        The Chairman: The point of order is sustained, and the 
    gentleman from Minnesota will proceed.

The Motion to Rise

Sec. 7.11 In the Committee of the Whole a quorum is not required on a 
    motion to rise.

    On May 31, 1972,(13) during consideration of H.R. 13918, 
a bill to provide improved financing for the corporation for public 
broadcasting, Chairman Robert N. Giaimo, of Connecticut, ruled out of 
order a point of no quorum while a motion to rise was pending.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. 118 Cong. Rec. 19353, 92d Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Harley O.] Staggers [of West Virginia]: Mr. Chairman, I 
    move that the Committee do now rise.
        Mr. [H. R.] Gross [of Iowa]: Mr. Chairman, on that motion I 
    demand tellers.

[[Page 3588]]

        The Chairman: The gentleman from Iowa is demanding tellers on 
    the motion that the Committee do now rise?
        Mr. Gross: That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman: The Chair will state to the gentleman that the 
    Chair has not yet put the motion.
        The question is on the motion offered by the gentleman from 
    West Virginia that the Committee do now rise.
        The question was taken; and the Chairman announced that the 
    ayes appeared to have it.
        Mr. Gross: Mr. Chairman, on that I demand tellers.
        Tellers were refused.
        Mr. Gross: Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order that a 
    quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will advise the gentleman from Iowa 
    that a quorum is not needed upon the motion that the Committee do 
    now rise.
        The motion was agreed to.

Sec. 7.12 Pending the Chair's count of a quorum, a motion that the 
    Committee of the Whole rise is in order because that motion does 
    not require a quorum for adoption.

    On June 4, 1948,(14) the Chairman, W. Sterling Cole, of 
New York, stated that a motion that the Committee rise does not require 
a quorum.(15)
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14. 94 Cong. Rec. 7178, 80th Cong. 2d Sess.
15. See also 80 Cong. Rec. 3459, 74th Cong. 2d Sess., Mar. 9, 1936.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Harold D.] Cooley [of North Carolina]: Mr. Chairman, I 
    make the point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count.
        Mr. [John] Taber [of New York]: Mr. Chairman, I move that the 
    Committee rise.
        The Chairman: The question is on the motion offered by the 
    gentleman from New York.
        Mr. Taber: Mr. Chairman, on that I demand tellers.
        Mr. Cooley: Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Cooley: Is the motion of the gentleman from New York in 
    order pending the determination as regards the presence of a 
    quorum?
        The Chairman: The gentleman's motion is in order. A quorum is 
    not necessary upon a motion that the Committee rise.
        Tellers were ordered, and the Chairman appointed as tellers Mr. 
    Taber and Mr. Cannon.
        The Committee divided; and the tellers reported that there 
    were--aye 1, noes 64.
        So the motion was rejected.
        The Chairman: Evidently a quorum is not present.
        The Clerk will call the roll.
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .

Sec. 7.13 Where a point of order is made that a quorum is not present 
    in the Committee of

[[Page 3589]]

    the Whole and the Chair announces that a quorum is not present, a 
    motion that the Committee rise is in order before the Chair directs 
    the Clerk to call the roll as provided in Rule XXIII clause 
    2.(16)
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16. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                    

      Instance where a quorum was established (on a teller vote) on the 
    vote by which the Committee of the Whole rejected a motion to rise 
    and the Committee then continued its business.

    On May 26, 1966,(17) during consideration of H.R. 13712, 
the fair labor standards amendments of 1966, the Committee of the Whole 
resumed business after a teller vote.(1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. 112 Cong. Rec. 11621, 89th Cong. 2d Sess.
 1. See also 74 Cong. Rec. 886, 71st Cong. 3d Sess., Dec. 16, 1930, for 
        another illustration of this principle.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Leslie C.] Arends [of Illinois]: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (2) The Chair will count. [After 
    counting.] Sixty-seven Members are present, not a quorum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 2. Charles M. Price (Ill.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Carl] Albert [of Oklahoma]: Mr. Chairman, I move that the 
    Committee do now rise. On that I demand tellers.
        Tellers were ordered, and the Chairman appointed as tellers Mr. 
    Albert and Mr. Arends.
        The Committee divided, and the tellers reported that there 
    were--ayes 3, noes 108.
        So the motion was rejected.
        The Chairman: A quorum is present.
        The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Collier] is recognized.

Consequences of Refusal to Rise

Sec. 7.14 Where a Committee of the Whole finds itself without a quorum 
    and on motion refuses to rise, the Chair directs the Clerk to call 
    the roll under Rule XXIII clause 2.(3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On May 3, 1933,(4) during consideration of H.R. 5390, 
the third deficiency appropriation bill, the Chairman, Sam D. 
McReynolds, of Tennessee, directed the Clerk to call the roll.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 4. 77 Cong. Rec. 2834, 73d Cong. 1st Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Chairman: The Chair will count only Members. The Chair will 
    count. [After counting.] One hundred and one Members present, a 
    quorum. . . .
        Mr. [William A.] Ayres of Kansas: Mr. Chairman, I yield 15 
    minutes to

[[Page 3590]]

    the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Truax]. . . .
        Mr. [T. Jeff] Busby [of Mississippi]: Mr. Chairman, a quorum 
    evidently is not present. I make the point of order that a quorum 
    is not present. We should not be proceeding with a handful of 
    Members. I am going to insist that a quorum remain present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count. [After counting.] Sixty-
    eight Members are present; not a quorum.
        Mr. Ayers of Kansas: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee do 
    now rise.
        The question was taken, and the Chairman announced that the 
    noes seemed to have it.
        Mr. [Joseph W.] Byrns [of Tennessee]: Mr. Chairman, I ask for 
    tellers.
        Tellers were ordered, and the Chair appointed Mr. Ayres of 
    Kansas and Mr. Busby to act as tellers.
        The Committee divided; and the tellers reported there were ayes 
    1 and noes 76.
        So the motion was rejected.
        The Chairman: Evidently there is not a quorum present. The 
    Clerk will call the roll.
        Mr. Busby: Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Busby: Is the roll call automatic?

        The Chairman: There is no automatic roll call.
        Mr. Busby: I understand no motion has been made that there be a 
    call of the House.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. Busby] 
    suggested that there was not a quorum present. No quorum is 
    present. The Committee has refused to rise. The Clerk will call the 
    roll.
        Mr. Busby: Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order that the 
    roll call is not in order, because there is no authority for a roll 
    call in Committee of the Whole.
        The Chairman: The Chair overrules the point of order. The Clerk 
    will call the roll.
    The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
answer to their names: . . .

Proceedings When Committee of the Whole Rises

Sec. 7.15 Where the Committee of the Whole rises and The Chairman 
    thereof reports to the House that, pursuant to Rule XXIII clause 
    2,(5) he caused the roll to be called in Committee to 
    establish the presence of a quorum, the House automatically 
    resolves back into Committee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On Apr. 6, 1967,(6) the House, after receiving a report 
from The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole, resolved itself back 
into the Committee.(7)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 6. 113 Cong. Rec. 8600, 90th Cong. 1st Sess.
 7. See also 115 Cong. Rec. 9705, 91st Cong. 1st Sess., Apr. 21, 1969, 
        for another illustration of this principle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[[Page 3591]]

        Mr. [Wayne L.] Hays [of Ohio]: Mr. Chairman, I make the point 
    of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (8) The Chair will count. [After 
    counting.] A quorum is not present. The Clerk will call the roll.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 8. John H. Dent (Pa.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        Accordingly, the Committee rose; and the Speaker having resumed 
    the chair, Mr. Dent, Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House 
    on the State of the Union, reported that that Committee, having had 
    under consideration the bill H.R. 2512, and finding itself without 
    a quorum, he had directed the roll to be called, when 376 Members 
    responded to their names, a quorum, and he submitted herewith the 
    names of the absentees to be spread upon the Journal.
        The Committee resumed its sitting.

Sec. 7.16 The Speaker does not conduct any business, even the reception 
    of a message, while he occupies the chair to receive the report of 
    The Chairman of the Committee of the Whole pursuant to Rule XXIII 
    clause 2.(9)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 9. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On Apr. 21, 1969,(10) Speaker John W. McCormack, of 
Massachusetts, conducted no business other than to receive the report 
of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole, when the Committee rose 
following a call of the Committee (under Rule XV clause 2). Immediately 
after the Committee resumed its sitting, it rose informally to permit 
the Speaker on behalf of the House to receive a message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. 115 Cong. Rec. 9705, 91st Cong. 1st Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Frank E.] Evans of Colorado: Mr. Chairman, I make the 
    point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (11) The Chair will count.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Charles M. Price (Ill.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Forty Members are present, not a quorum. The Clerk will call 
    the roll.
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker having resumed 
    the chair, Mr. Price of Illinois, Chairman of the Committee of the 
    Whole House on the State of the Union, reported that that 
    Committee, having had under consideration the bill H.R. 541, and 
    finding itself without a quorum, he had directed the roll to be 
    called, when 325 Members responded to their names, a quorum, and he 
    submitted herewith the names of the absentees to be spread upon the 
    Journal.
        The Committee resumed its sitting.
        The Chairman: The Committee will rise informally in order that 
    the House may receive a message.

                         Message From the President

        The Speaker assumed the chair.

[[Page 3592]]

        The Speaker: The Chair will receive a message.
        A message in writing from the President of the United States 
    was communicated to the House by Mr. Geisler, one of his 
    secretaries.
        The Speaker: The Committee will resume its sitting.

Sec. 7.17 The Speaker pro tempore, having received the report of The 
    Chairman of the Committee of the Whole that a quorum of the 
    Committee appeared on a call of the roll under Rule XXIII clause 
    2,(12) immediately directs the Committee to resume its 
    sitting and does not entertain points of no quorum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. See House Rules and Manual Sec. 863 (1979).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On Aug. 2, 1967,(13) the Speaker pro tempore 
(14)  refused to entertain a point of no quorum 
(1) under the following circumstances:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. 113 Cong. Rec. 21095, 90th Cong. 1st Sess.
14. Carl Albert (Okla.).
 1. But see 6 Cannon's Precedents Sec. Sec. 666, 667, in which points 
        of no quorum were permitted following a rise of the Committee 
        but before the Chairmen reported to the House. Those cases, 
        however, are distinguishable from this precedent because in 
        both instances the Committees had completed consideration of 
        bills and the Chairmen had been instructed to report the 
        Committee's conclusions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. [Joe D.] Waggonner [Jr., of Louisiana]: Mr. Chairman, I 
    make the point of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: (2) The Chair will count.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 2. Daniel D. Rostenkowski (Ill.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Evidently a quorum is not present. The Clerk will call the 
    roll.
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore 
    (Mr. Albert) having resumed the chair, Mr. Rostenkowski, Chairman 
    of the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, 
    reported that that Committee, having had under consideration the 
    bill H.R. 5037, and finding itself without a quorum, he had 
    directed the roll to be called, when 388 Members responded to their 
    names, a quorum, and he submitted herewith the names of the 
    absentees to be spread upon the Journal.
        Mr. Waggonner: Mr. Speaker----
        The Speaker Pro Tempore: For what purpose does the gentleman 
    from Louisiana rise?
        Mr. Waggonner: Mr. Speaker, I make the point of order that a 
    quorum is not present.
        The Speaker Pro Tempore: That point of order is out of order. 
    The Chair has just announced a quorum.
        The Committee resumed its sitting.

Sec. 7.18 Where the Committee of the Whole resumed its sitting upon the 
    establishment of a quorum, the pending question was the ordering of 
    tell

[[Page 3593]]

    ers which were demanded immediately prior to the point of no 
    quorum.

    On Mar. 23, 1970,(3) the Committee of the Whole resumed 
its sitting after the Chairman reported to the House that a quorum had 
appeared. When the Committee resumed its sitting, the pending business, 
the ordering of tellers, was considered.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3. 116 Cong. Rec. 8562, 8563, 91st Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Chairman: (4) The question is on the motion [to 
    amend H.R. 15728, to permit the President to loan one submarine to 
    Pakistan] offered by the gentleman from New York (Mr. Koch).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 4. William J. Bryan Dorn (S.C.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. 
    Koch), there were--ayes 10, noes 50.
        Mr. [Edward I.] Koch: Mr. Chairman, I demand tellers.
        Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order that a quorum is not 
    present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count.
        Evidently a quorum is not present.
        The Clerk will call the roll. . . .
        The Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to 
    answer to their names: . . .
        Accordingly the Committee rose; and the Speaker pro tempore 
    (Mr. Price of Illinois) having resumed the chair, Mr. Dorn, 
    Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the 
    Union, reported that that Committee, having had under consideration 
    the bill H.R. 15728, and finding itself without a quorum, he had 
    directed the roll to be called, when 329 Members responded to their 
    names, a quorum, and he submitted herewith the names of the 
    absentees to be spread upon the Journal.
        The Committee resumed its sitting.
        Mr. [L. Mendel] Rivers [of South Carolina]: Mr. Chairman, a 
    parliamentary inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman from South Carolina will state his 
    parliamentary inquiry.
        Mr. Rivers: Is the first order of business the ordering of 
    tellers?
        The Chairman: The gentleman is correct. When the point of order 
    was made that a quorum was not present, the gentleman from New York 
    (Mr. Koch) had demanded tellers. The question before the Committee 
    is on the question of ordering tellers.
        Tellers were refused.
        So the motion was rejected.

Point of No Quorum as Related to the Demand for Tellers

Sec. 7.19 After a point of no quorum was made, the Chairman of the 
    Committee of the Whole indicated that he would not recognize a 
    demand for a teller vote unless the point of order was withdrawn or 
    a quorum established.

    On Aug. 21, 1950,(5) during consideration of H.R. 9313, 
a bill to
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5. 96 Cong. Rec. 12960, 12961, 81st Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

[[Page 3594]]

amend the Agricultural Act of 1949, a demand for a teller vote was not 
entertained.

        The Chairman: (6) The question is on the amendment 
    offered by the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Davis].
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 6. Carl T. Durham (N.C.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. 
    Davis of Georgia) there were ayes 21, noes 28.
        Mr. [James C.] Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, I make the point 
    of order that a quorum is not present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, I demand tellers.
        The Chairman: The gentleman withdraws his point of order that a 
    quorum is not present?
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: I do not withdraw it. A parliamentary 
    inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Was my point of order that a quorum is 
    not present in order?
        The Chairman: The gentleman can make the point of order that a 
    quorum is not present.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, I make that point of order, 
    then.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry.

        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, if I insist on the point of 
    order, will I then have an opportunity to have a roll-call vote on 
    this question?
        The Chairman: Not in Committee of the Whole, no.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, another parliamentary 
    inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, if I withdraw the point of 
    order and ask for tellers, can I then obtain tellers if a 
    sufficient number rises?
        The Chairman: The gentleman is correct. . . .
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Mr. Chairman, a further parliamentary 
    inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Davis of Georgia: Can the motion for tellers be made after 
    a quorum is present?
        The Chairman: Yes.

Sec. 7.20 Where a Member, following a vote on an amendment, demands 
    tellers and then immediately thereafter makes a point of order that 
    a quorum is not present, the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole 
    orders the Clerk to call the roll to establish Members' presence.

    On Mar. 23, 1970,(7) Chairman W. J. Bryan Dorn, of South 
Carolina, ordered the Clerk to call the roll because a point of no 
quorum supersedes a demand for tellers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 7. 116 Cong. Rec. 8562, 8563, 91st Cong. 2d Sess.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

        The Chairman: The question is on the motion [to amend H.R. 
    15728, to

[[Page 3595]]

    permit the President to loan one submarine to Pakistan] offered by 
    the gentleman from New York (Mr. Koch).
        The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. 
    Koch), were--ayes 10, noes 50.
        Mr. [Edward I.] Koch: Mr. Chairman, I demand tellers.
        Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order that a quorum is not 
    present.
        The Chairman: The Chair will count.
        Evidently a quorum is not present.
        The Clerk will call the roll.
        Mr. [F. Edward] Hebert [of Louisiana]: Mr. Chairman, a 
    parliamentary inquiry.
        The Chairman: The gentleman will state it.
        Mr. Hebert: Mr. Chairman, is it in order to call for a quorum 
    when a call for a teller vote is asked for and should be in 
    progress at that moment--you cannot interrupt a vote.
        The Chairman: The Chair will state that the gentleman from New 
    York made the point that a quorum was not present.
        Mr. Hebert: No, no--the Record will show that he asked for a 
    teller vote and then asked for a quorum.
        The Chairman: It is the understanding of the Chair that the 
    gentleman asked for a teller vote and then made the point of order 
    that a quorum was not present.
        Mr. Hebert: That is it--when he asked for a teller vote, he 
    asked for a vote to be taken and that vote comes automatically. 
    Having made that motion, he cannot get the other.
        The Chairman: The Chair will advise the distinguished gentleman 
    from Louisiana that the Committee cannot do business without a 
    quorum, and since it has been established a quorum is not present, 
    the Chair has directed the Clerk to call the roll.
        The Clerk will call the roll.