    [Hearings Regarding Steve Nelson (Including Foreword)]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]

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    Given  By
    U.  S.  SUPT.  Of  DOCUMENTS

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    HEARINGS  REGARDING  STEVE  NELSON

    (Including  Foreword)

    HEARINGS

    BEFORE  THE

    COMMITTEE  ON  UN- AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES
    HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES

    EIGHTY-FIRST  CONGRESS

    FIRST  SESSION

    JUNE  8.  1949

    Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities

    UNITED  STATES

    GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE

    WASHINGTON  :  1949

    9-y''

    PUBLIC

    Y--?,    0  /

    ^fX-,i

    U.  S.  SUPERINTENnENT  OF  DOCUMENrS

    AUG  27  1949

    COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES
    United  States  House  of  Representatives

    JOHN  S.  WOOD,  Georgia,  Chairman
    FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania  J.  PARNELL  THOMAS,  New  Jersey

    BURR  P.  HARRISON,  Virginia  RICHARD  M.  NIXON,  California

    JOHN  McSWEENEY,  Ohio  FRANCIS  CASE,  South  Dakota

    MORGAN  M.  MOULDER,  Missouri  HAROLD  H.  VELDE,  Illinois

    Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  Counsel
    Louis  J.  Russell,  Senior  Investigator
    Benjamin  Mandel,  Director  of  Research
    John  W,  Carrinoton,  Clerk  of  Committee
    II

    TABLE  OF  CONTENTS

    Page

    Foreword v-ix

    Testimony  of  Steve  Nelson 129

    Appendix 154

    Reproductions  of  Nelson  exhibits  1,  9,  10,  15,  and  16  follow  appendix.

    in

    FOREWORD

    June  8,  1949.

    Mr.  MOULDER.  Mr.  Nelson,  in  the  event  of  war  between  the
    United  States  and  Russia,  to  which  country  would  you  owe  your
    allegiance  and  loyalty  in  such  a  conflict?

    Mr.  NELSON.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.^

    Steve  Nelson,  with  aliases  of  Louis  Evans,  Joseph  Fleischinger,  and
    "Hugo,"  was  born  Steve  Alesarosh  on  January  1,  1903,  at  Chaglich,
    Yugoslavia.  Steve  Nelson  entered  the  United  States  on  eTune  12,
    1920,  accompanied  by  his  mother  and  two  sisters.  He  gained  admis-
    sion to  the  United  States  as  a  citizen  of  this  country  under  the  name  of
    Joseph  Fleischinger,  that  being  the  name  of  his  mother's  brother-in-
    law.  Nelson's  mother  and  two  sisters  also  gained  admission  at  that
    time  by  falsely  representing  themselves  as  the  wife  and  children  of
    Joseph  Fleischinger.  The  name  of  Nelson's  mother  and  the  names  of
    her  three  children  were  all  included  on  the  United  States  passport
    issued  to  said  Joseph  Fleischinger.^

    On  June  22,  1922,  a  warrant  of  arrest  in  deportation  proceedings  was-
    issued  charging  that  the  subject,  his  mother,  and  two  sisters  had
    entered  the  United  States  without  proper  passports;  that  they  had
    entered  by  false  and  misleading  statements;  and  that  they  were  per-
    sons likely  to  become  public  charges  at  the  time  of  their  entry.

    A  hearing  was  held  under  the  authority  of  the  warrant  of  arrest  in
    Philadelphia  on  October  17,  1922,  as  a  result  of  which  the  examining
    immigration  inspector  recommended  that  the  aliens  be  afforded  the
    opportunity  to  legalize  their  residence  in  the  United  States.  It
    should  be  noted  that  during  the  hearing  the  United  States  Govern-
    ment recommended  that  Steve  Nelson,  his  two  sisters,  and  his  mother
    be  afforded  a  haven  in  the  United  States,  even  though  they  illegally
    entered  the  country.  During  the  hearing,  it  was  brought  out  that
    Steve  Nelson,  his  two  sisters,  and  his  mother  had  taken  advantage  of
    opportunities  in  this  country;  that  Steve  Nelson,  as  well  as  his  sisters,
    were  attending  school,  and  that  the  entire  family  had  gained  employ-
    ment. In  the  recommendation  of  the  immigration  inspector  it  was
    stated  that  after  examination  of  the  aliens  it  was  decided  that  the
    subject  individuals  were  taking  advantage  of  the  opportunities
    offered  by  this  country  and  undoubtedly  would  become  substantial
    citizens.    On  October  30,  1922,  the  Board  of  Keview  entered  an  order

    •  See  p.  153.  Mr.  Nelson's  refusal  to  answer  the  question  is  based  on  his  answers  to  previous  questions  in
    the  testimony  wherein  he  refused  to  answer  questions  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  incriminate  or  degrade
    him.

    »  See  p.  136,  exhibit  1.

    V

    VI  FOREWORD

    that  the  warrant  of  arrest  be  canceled  on  payment  of  head  tax  if  the
    Department  of  State  would  waive  passport  requirements.  On
    November  14,  1922,  the  Secretary  of  State  waived  the  passport  and
    visa  requirements  in  behalf  of  the  subject,  his  mother,  Maria,  and  his
    two  sisters.  Thereafter,  on  November  27,  1922,  the  aliens  were
    examined  by  surgeons  of  the  United  States  Public  Health  Service  and
    passed;  head  tax  was  collected;  and  the  entry  of  the  subject,  his
    mother,  and  his  two  sisters  was  legalized.

    Steve  Nelson  was  admitted  to  citizenship  in  the  United  States
    District  Court,  Eastern  District  of  Michigan,  Detroit,  Mich.,  on
    November  26,  1928,  and  was  issued  certificate  of  naturahzation,  No.
    2834850.

    In  evaluating  Steve  Nelson's  entry  in  the  United  States  and  the
    Government's  position  in  legalizing  said  entry,  the  United  States
    afforded  a  haven  for  a  refugee  whose  political  ideologies  in  subsequent
    years  dedicated  themselves  to  tbe  violent  overthrow  of  the  United
    States  Government  by  force.  It  is  not  definitely  known  when  Steve
    Nelson  joined  the  Communist  Partj^.  However,  in  an  article  in  the
    Daily  Worker,  November  10,  1937,  under  the  byline  of  Joseph  North,
    dispatched  from  Valencia,  Spain,  North  stated  that  while  interviewing
    participants  fighting  for  the  International  Brigade,  he  obtained  the
    following  information  from  Steve  Nelson:

    The  working  people  of  the  Soviet  Union  were  passing  through  a  bitter  period
    and  Steve  joined  the  Friends  of  Soviet  Russia.  On  the  first  anniversary  of
    Lenin's  death  [1925],  he  joined  the  Communist  Party  at  the  memorial  in  Phil-
    adelphia.^

    This  alleged  statement  by  Steve  Nelson  is  noteworthy  because,  as
    previously  stated,  he  was  granted  citizenship  on  November  26,  1928.
    If  the  truth  of  the  article  written  by  Joseph  North  which  appeared
    in  the  Daily  Worker  could  be  established,  it  is  apparent  that  Steve
    Nelson  was  a  member  of  the  CommuTiist  Party  prior  to  gaining  his
    citizenship  and  therefore  perjured  himself  when  he  obtamed  his  na-
    turahzation papers.

    In  1931,  Steve  Nelson's  importance  to  the  Communist  movement
    was  recognized  in  Moscow  and  he  was  called  there  to  attend  the  Lenin
    Institute.  On  August  1,  1931,  he  filed  a  passport  application  with  the
    Department  of  State  in  which  he  requested  permission  to  visit  Ger-
    many to  study  building  construction.  He  falsified  his  passport  by
    stating  that  he  was  born  in  Rankin,  Pa.,  on  December  25,  1903.  This
    criminal  offense  was  never  prosecuted  due  to  the  fact  that  it  was  not
    discovered  until  the  statute  of  limitations  had  run.'^  There  is  further
    evidence  with  respect  to  Mr.  Nelson's  attendance  at  the  school  in
    Moscow.  Mr.  William  Nowell  testified  before  this  committee  on
    November  30,  1939,  and  he  stated  that  while  he  was  a  member  of  the
    Communist  Party  he  attended  the  Lenin  Institute  in  Moscow  and  that
    Steve  Nelson  was  in  attendance  at  this  school  under  the  name  of  Louis
    Evans.  Mr.  Nowell  stated  in  his  testimony  that  Nelson's  prominence
    in  the  Communist  Party  was  conspicuous  because  of  his  frequent  con-
    tact with  the  OGPU  (Russian  secret  police)  in  Moscow.  Additional
    evidence  of  Nelson's  visit  to  Russia  has  been  developed  by  this  com-
    mittee which  indicates  that  in  July  1933  Nelson  filed  with  the  American
    consul  in  Austria  a  2-year  renewal  of  his  passport,  stating  that  he  had

    3  See  p.  137,  exhibit  2.
    <  See  p.  142,  exhibit  9.

    FOREWORD  VII

    resided  in  Russia  from  September  1931  to  May  1933  and  had  resided
    in  Germany,  Switzerland,  and  Austria  from  May  25,  1933.  Nelson,
    when  questioned  by  this  committee  regarding  his  attendance  at  the
    Lenin  School,  refused  to  answer  on  the  ground  of  self-incrimination.

    Official  mtelligence  reports  in  possession  of  this  committee  reflect
    that  Nelson  was  in  China  for  3  months  in  1933,  working  for  the
    Comintern  in  Shanghai,  and  that  a  coworker  of  his  was  Arthur  Ewert,
    a  well-known  Comintern  agent,  who  was  subsequently  sentenced  to
    imprisonment  in  Brazil  for  his  part  in  the  Communist  revolution  in
    1935.  The  exact  date  of  the  subject's  return  to  the  United  States
    from  China  and  the  European  countries  mentioned  above  is  unlmown,
    but  in  1934  he  contributed  an  article  to  the  Party  Organizer,  official
    organ  of  the  central  committee  of  the  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.

    During  the  Spanish  Civil  War,  Nelson  received  considerable
    publicity  in  the  Communist  press  because  of  the  fact  he  had  risen  to
    the  rank  of  lieutenant  colonel  in  the  International  Brigade  of  the
    Loyalist  Ai-my.  Nelson  returned  to  the  United  States  in  the  latter
    part  of  1937  from  Spain  and  became  active  in  the  afl^airs  of  the  Veterans
    of  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade  and  the  American  League  for  Peace
    and  Democracy,  both  notorious  Communist  organizations.

    Since  1938  Steve  Nelson  has  been  a  national  figure  in  the  Com-
    munist Party,  as  well  as  a  leading  functionary  in  the  Moscow-con-
    trolled Communist  underground.

    With  reference  to  Nelson's  participation  in  the  Abraham  Lincoln
    Brigade,  Nelson  applied  for  a  passport  on  February  13,  1937,  and
    the  passport  was  issued  on  February  23.  This  passport  was  issued
    to  Nelson  under  the  name  of  Joseph  Fleischinger.^  It  is  noted  on
    the  application  form  that  the  name  Fleischinger  was  misspelled  in
    two  places  by  the  applicant.  This  criminal  violation  likewise  escaped
    the  attention  of  the  authorities  until  the  statute  of  limitations  had
    expned.  When  questions  were  propounded  to  Nelson  regarding
    this  false  passport,  he  again  followed  the  current  Communist  Party
    line  by  declining  to  answer  questions  and  placed  hinself  under  the
    sanctuary  of  the  fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution.

    Steve  Nelson  was  so  important  to  the  Communist  movement  and
    had  gained  such  favor  with  his  superiors  that  in  1940  he  was  assigned
    as  organizer  for  the  party  in  the  bay  area  at  the  port  of  San  Francisco,
    Calif.  He  was  also  given  an  underground  assignment  to  gather
    information  regarding  the  development  of  the  atomic  bomb.  This
    assignment  was  facilitated  by  Steve  Nelson's  having  met  a  woman  in
    Spain  who  had  gone  to  Spain  in  1937  to  meet  her  husband,  also  a
    volunteer  in  the  International  Brigade.  Upon  arrival  in  Spain,  this
    woman  was  informed  that  her  husband  had  been  killed,  and  she  was
    befriended  by  Steve  Nelson.  This  woman,  upon  her  return  to  the
    United  States,  moved  to  Berkeley,  Calif.,  where  she  became  acquainted
    with  and  married  one  of  the  leading  physicists  engaged  in  the  develop-
    ment of  the  atomic  bomb.

    The  Communist  Party  and  the  Soviet  Government  were  aware  of
    Steve  Nelson's  acquaintance  with  the  physicist  and  attempted  to  use
    this  as  a  medium  of  infiltration  of  the  radiation  laboratory  at  the
    University  of  California,  which  was  working  on  the  development  of
    the  atomic  bomb.  An  investigation  of  the  aforementioned  scientist
    disclosed  that  neither  he  nor  his  wife  engaged  in  any  subversive  activi-

    «  See  p.  146,  exhibit  10.

    Vni  FOREWORD

    ties  and  that  their  loyalty  has  never  been  questioned  by  the  Govern-
    ment. Nelson  later  reported  that  neither  the  physicist  nor  his  wife
    were  sympathetic  to  communism.

    Under  the  guidance  of  Steve  Nelson,  infiltration  of  the  radiation
    laboratory  actually  began  in  other  ways.  A  cell  was  developed  within
    the  laboratory,  consisting  of  five  or  six  young  physicists.  The  exist-
    ence of  the  cell  has  been  established  in  sworn  testimony  before  this
    committee.  According  to  a  sworn  statement  by  a  witness,  Giovanni
    Rossi  Lomanitz  was  the  principal  Communist  Party  organizer.  The
    records  of  this  committee  also  reflect  that  David  Bohm,  presently  a
    professor  of  physics  at  Princeton  University,  was  also  a  member  of  this
    cell.  Upon  two  occasions,  both  Giovanni  Rossi  Lomanitz  and  David
    Bohm  declined  to  answer  questions  regarding  their  respective  member-
    ships in  this  cell  upon  the  grounds  that  to  do  so  might  tend  to  incrimi-
    nate them.

    Other  alleged  members  of  this  cell  at  the  Radiation  Laboratory  are
    under  investigation  by  this  committee  and  such  evidence  of  member-
    ship will  be  forthcoming  in  future  hearings  of  this  committee.

    In  1942  Steve  Nelson  gained  another  promotion  within  the
    Communist  Party  when  he  was  assigned  as  county  organizer  at
    Alameda,  Calif.  This  assignment  placed  the  atomic-bomb  project
    under  the  direct  jurisdiction  of  Steve  Nelson  for  the  Communist  Party.
    According  to  the  official  files  of  the  Government,  while  Nelson  was
    under  surveillance,  he  visited  the  home  of  Vassili  Zubilin,  a  former
    secretary  of  the  Soviet  Embassy  in  Washington,  D.  C,  who  was  then
    in  Oakland,  Calif.  Zubilin's  cover  name  in  the  Communist  Party
    was  "Cooper."  During  this  meeting.  Nelson  complained  to  Zubilin
    about  the  inefficiency  of  two  individuals  working  for  the  apparatus.
    These  persons  have  been  identified  by  the  committee  and  theu'  names
    are  beiiig  presently  withheld  from  the  public.  Because  of  Mr.  Nelson's
    complaint  to  Zubilin,  these  individuals  were  transferred  from  Alameda
    County — one  to  Detroit,  Mich.,  and  the  other  to  Los  Angeles,  Cahf.

    The  amount  or  value  of  the  information  gained  by  Steve  Nelson
    regarding  the  development  of  the  atomic  bomb  is  not  known.  How-
    ever, due  to  the  alertness  of  the  officials  of  the  Manhattan  Engineering
    District  and  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation,  Steve  Nelson's  at-
    tempt to  gather  information  was  stopped.  Physicists  at  the  radiation
    laboratory  who  belonged  to  the  Communist  Party  were  removed  from
    their  positions  under  one  pretext  or  another.

    Steve  Nelson's  participation  in  the  Communist  conspiracy  regarding
    the  atomic  bomb  has  been  previously  exposed  in  a  report  issued  by
    this  committee  on  September  28,  1948,  entitled  "Report  on  Soviet
    Espionage  Activities  in  Connection  With  the  Atom  Bomb."  Since
    this  report  is  predicated  on  the  activities  of  Steve  Nelson,  excerpts
    from  our  report  of  September  28,  1948,  are  included  herewith:

    *  *  *  Late  one  night  in  March  of  1943,  scientist  X,  who  was  a  scientist  at
    the  University  of  California,  went  to  the  home  of  Steve  Nelson,  having  earlier  in
    the  evening  made  arrangements  with  Steve  Nelson's  wife  to  meet  Nelson  there.
    Nelson  was  not  then  at  home  but  came  in  at  about  1 :30  in  the  morning.  After-
    Nelson  had  greeted  scientist  X,  the  latter  stated  that  he  had  some  information
    that  he  thought  Nelson  could  use.  He  read  to  Nelson  a  complicated  formula,
    which  Nelson  copied  down.  Scientist  X  gave  as  his  reason  for  asking  Nelson  to-
    copy  it  down  that  the  formula  was  in  the  handwriting  of  some  other  person,  and
    that  he,  scientist  X,  had  to  return  the  formula  to  the  University  of  California.

    FOREWORD  IX

    Radiation  Laboratories  in  the  morning.  The  radiation  laboratories  were  en-
    gaged in  vital  work  in  the  development  of  the  atomic  bomb.

    Several  days  later  Nelson  contacted  the  Soviet  consulate  in  San  Francisco  and
    arranged  to  meet  Peter  Ivanov,  the  Soviet  vice  consul,  at  some  place  where  they
    could  not  be  observed.  Ivanov  suggested  that  he  and  Nelson  meet  at  the  "usual
    place."

    As  a  result  of  the  surveillance  that  was  being  kept  on  Nelson,  the  meeting  be-
    tween Nelson  and  Ivanov  was  found  to  take  place  in  the  middle  of  an  open  park
    on  the  St.  Francis  Hospital  grounds  in  San  Francisco.  At  this  meeting  Nelson
    transferred  something  to  Ivanov.  If  the  matter  transferred  included  the  formula
    that  scientist  X  had  given  Nelson  several  days  previous — and  the  inference  is
    irresistible  that  it  did — it  was  a  formula  of  importance  in  the  development  of  the
    atom  bomb.

    A  few  days  after  this  meeting  between  Nelson  and  Ivanov  on  the  St.  Francis
    Hospital  grounds,  the  third  secretary  of  the  Russian  Embassy  in  Washington,  a
    man  by  the  name  of  Zubilin,  came  to  the  Soviet  consulate  in  San  Francisco.
    Shortly  after  Zubilin's  arrival,  he  made  an  appointment  to  meet  Steve  Nelson  in
    Steve  "Nelson's  home.  At  this  meeting  Zubilin  paid  Steve  Nelson  10  bills  of  un-
    known denominations.

    The  individual  alleged  by  former  intelligence  officers  and  Government  intelli-
    gence reports  to  be  scientist  X  appeared  before  the  committee  in  secret  session
    and  denied  that  he  had  ever  known  Steve  Nelson  or  Steve  Nelson's  wife,  and
    further  denied  that  he  had  ever  had  any  meeting  with  Nelson  or  anyone  else  such
    as  described  above,  or  that  he  had  ever  given  to  any  unauthorized  person  any
    formula  or  other  classified  information.  This  in  direct  conflict  with  the  testimony
    of  two  Federal  agents  who  were  assigned  to  the  investigation.

    When  Nelson  testified  before  the  committee  in  September  1948,  he  refused  to
    answer  ail  pertinent  questions  on  the  ground  that  his  answers  would  tend  to  in-
    criminate him.  It  is  significant,  in  this  connection,  that  when  asked  if  he  had
    ever  been  in  the  Soviet  consulate  in  New  York  City,  he  answered  "No";  but  when
    he  was  asked  if  he  had  ever  ridden  in  an  automobile  of  the  Soviet  consulate  in  New
    York  City  in  the  period  1938  to  1948,  he  refused  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  his
    answer  might  incriminate  him.  He  also  refused  to  answer  on  the  same  ground
    when  asked  if  he  was  acquainted  with  Vassili  Zubilin  of  the  Soviet  Embassy  in  the
    United  States     *     *     *

    920S0— 49-

    flEAEINGS  KEGAEDINGl  STEVE  NELSON

    WEDNESDAY,   JUNE  8,   1949

    United  States  House  of  Representatives,

    Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on

    Un-American  Activities,

    Washington,  D.  C.

    A  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met
    pursuant  to  call  at  11:25  a.  m.  in  room  226,  Old  House  Office  Building,
    Hon.  John  McSweeney  presiding.

    Committee  members  present:  Representatives  John  McSweeney
    (presiding),  Burr  P.  Harrison,  Richard  M.  Nixon,  and  Francis  Case.

    Staff  members  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel;  Louis  J.
    Russell,  senior  investigator;  William  A.  Wheeler,  investigator;  and
    A.  S.  Poore,  editor.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  The  chairman  has  designated  me  to  preside  over
    the  subcommittee's  hearing  this  morning.

    Let  the  record  show  that  this  is  a  subcommittee  appointed  by  the
    chairman,  constituted  of  Mr.  Harrison,  Mr.  Nixon,  Mr.  Case,  and
    John  McSweeney,  who  has  been  designated  to  preside.

    Mr.  Tavenner,  will  you  proceed.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  call  as  the  first  witness  Mr.  Steve.
    Nelson.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  Will  you  rise  and  raise  your  right  hand.  You
    solemnly  swear  to  tell  the  committee  the  whole  truth  and  nothing  but
    the  truth,  so  help  you  God?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  do.

    Mr.  Bloch.  May  I  note  my  appearance  for  the  record?  I  am
    representing  Mr.  Nelson  as  his  counsel.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  name  and  address?

    Mr.  Block.  Emanuel  H.  Bloch,  270  Broadway,  New  York  City.

    SWORN  TESTIMONY  OF  STEVE  NELSON,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS
    COUNSEL,  EMANUEL  H.  BLOCH

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Nelson,  will  you  state  your  full  name?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Steve  Nelson.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  was  born  in  Yugoslavia.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  What  date?

    Mr.  Nelson.  December  26,  1903.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  present  address?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Harmarville,  Pa.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  was  your  father's  name?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Michael.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  he  born?

    129

    130  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Nelson.  The  same  place.

    Mr.  Tavener.  Is  he  now  Uving?

    Mr.  Nelson.  No.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  he  come  to  the  United  States?

    Mr.  Nelson.  No.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  mother's  name?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mary.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  she  Uving?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  Steve  Nelson  your  only  name,  or  did  you  for-
    merly go  by  a  different  name?

    Mr.  Nelson.  My  name  is  loiown  to  the  committee.  It  is  Mesarosh,
    M-e-s-a-r-o-s-h.     Steve  is  the  first  name.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  brothers  and  sisters?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  do  have  two  sisters.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Wliat  are  their  names?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  am  going  to  avail  myself  of  my
    constitutional  right  of  not  answering  that  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth
    amendment,  which,  as  you  know,  provides  that  I  need  not  incriminate
    myself  here.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  And  it  is  your  interpretation  that  giving  your
    sisters'  names  comes  within  the  protection  afforded  you  under  that
    amendment?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  Josef  Fleischinger  your  uncle?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  will  take  the  same  stand  on  that  question,  Mr.
    Chairman.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  ground  it  may  tend  to
    incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you  this  question:  In  what  manner
    could  the  acknowledgement  that  Josef  Fleischinger  is  your  uncle  tend
    to  incrimmate  you?

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  don't  know  what  my  rights  are  here.  I  know  they
    are  severely  limited ;  they  have  been  in  the  past.  I  don't  know  if  the
    committee  would  like  to  hear  an  objection  in  any  legal  form.  If
    I  am  allowed  to  record  the  objections,  I  would  like  to  state  for  the
    record  that  the  question  itself  calls  for  the  divulgence  of  information
    that  might  be  incriminatory  in  character.  Therefore,  the  question
    is  improper  and  I  object  to  it.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  In  reply  to  counsel,  I  desire  to  state  that  if  there
    is  any  indication  from  evidence  that  is  presented  to  this  committee
    that  such  should  be  the  case,  he  would  be  within  his  rights  in  claiming
    immunity.

    Mr.  Bloch.  Furnishing  you  evidence,  or  a  scintilla  of  evidence,  to
    indicate  the  basis  of  the  witness'  refusal  to  answer  on  the  ground  it
    might  tend  to  incriminate  him  would,  in  and  of  itself,  destroy  the
    privilege,  because  it  might  furnish  a  link,  or  a  clue,  or  evidence  itself,
    that  might  reveal  information  of  an  incriminatory  character.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  absence  of  or  refusal  of  the  witness  to  give
    any  evidence  to  this  committee  wherein  the  divulgence  of  that  infor-
    mation might  be  incriminatmg,  I  think  he  should  be  compelled  to
    answer  the  question.

    Mr.  Block.  I  wonder  if  the  committee  would  give  me  a  moment
    to  discuss  with  the  witness  his  constitutional  rights  and  clarify  in
    my  own  mind  something?

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON  131

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Yes.

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Block.  If  the  committee  pleases,  the  witness  would  like  to
    clarify  his  refusal  by  a  sketchy  summary  statement  which  will  suggest,
    at  any  rate,  to  the  committee  his  basis  for  refusing  to  answer  without
    destroying  the  privilege.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Mr.  Nelson,  proceed.

    Mr.  Nelson.  In  the  first  place,  I  understand  the  fifth  amendment
    to  mean  that  you  have  no  right  to  press  me  to  interpret  or  to  give  you
    my  reasons  for  not  answering  the  question.  Secondly,  this  com-
    mittee knows  that  I  am  a  Communist,  and  if  I  should  admit  that  I
    know  certain  people,  those  people  would  be  subject  to  persecution,
    and  I  will  not  cooperate  with  the  committee  on  that  score.

    Mr,  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman

    Mr.  Nelson.  And  of  course  because  it  would  incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  reasons  the  witness  has  given  do
    not  bear  on  the  matter  of  self-incrimination.  The  fact  that  it  is
    going  to  embarrass  somebody  else  who  happens  to  be  a  relative  cer-
    tainly does  not  bear  on  the  question  of  self-incrimination.  I  think
    the  understanding  should  be  reached  at  the  present  time  that  if  the
    witness  is  using  self-incrimination  simply  to  show  his  contempt  for
    the  committee,  that  the  committee  should  take  proper  action.

    Mr.  Bloch.  The  witness  did  not  confine  his  refusal  to  the  fact  it
    may  involve  other  people  in  persecutions,  as  he  termed  it,  but  he  also
    assigned  the  reason  that  he  himself  would  be  incriminated.  I  think
    the  record  bears  that  out  very  clearly.  He  might  have  many  reasons
    for  refusing  to  answer,  but  I  submit  that  if  one  of  those  reasons  in-
    volves his  right  against  self-incrimination,  his  refusal  should  be  upheld.

    Mr.  Harrison.  Might  I  ask  what  counsel  suggests?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  the  witness  to  comply  with  what  I
    conceive  the  law  to  be  in  such  matters,  that  if  he  has  any  reasons  or
    can  give  this  committee  any  information  that  could  lead  this  com-
    mittee to  believe  that  his  reply  would  be  of  an  incriminatory  nature,
    then  he  should  not  be  required  to  answer  the  question;  otherwise,  he
    should  be  required  to  answer.  And  I  want  him  to  have  every  oppor-
    tunity to  present  to  this  committee  some  information  that  would
    permit  this  committee  to  come  to  some  conclusion,  because  I  deem  it
    to  be  the  right  and  privilege  of  this  committee  to  determine  whether
    or  not  the  question  should  be  answered.

    Mr.  Case.  Mr,  Chairman

    Mr.  Bloch.  If  the  committee  pleases

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Mr.  Case.

    Mr.  Case.  Did  the  witness  complete  his  statement?  He  started
    to  say  for  the  further  reason  that  it  would  tend  to  incriminate  him-
    self.    Did  that  complete  your  statement?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Block.  If  I  might  be  heard  for  2  seconds  on  this  question,  and
    I  think  it  is  a  question  of  law  more  than  anything  else,  the  courts,
    have  held  repeatedly- — and  this  is  within  the  last  few  years,  and  if
    you  care  for  the  citations  I  can  give  them  to  you — ^that  when  an
    avowed  Communist  is  questioned  about  his  associations,  affiliations,
    and  activities  in  connection  with  his  Communist  beliefs,  he  has  the
    absolute  right  to  rely  upon  the  fifth  amendment,  because  the  Govern-
    ment— incidentally,   particularly   this  committee — has  made   claims

    132  HEARINGS   REGARDING   STEVE   NELSON

    about  the  Communist  movement,  charging  them  with  engaging  in
    activities  of  a  criminal  character.

    I  don't  have  to  enumerate  for  you  the  various  statutes  under  which
    it  has  claimed  that  certain  members  of  the  Communist  Party  have
    committed  crimes  against  the  United  States.  It  is  apparent  we  have
    a  crime  by  conspiracy,  and  when  you  ask  a  Communist  if  he  knows
    somebody  or  has  seen  somebody  or  engaged  in  any  activity  with
    somebody,  it  might  tend  to  put  him  in  the  legal  noose,  I  might  say,  for
    prosecution  by  the  United  States.

    The  admission  of  a  relationship  may  be  very  damaging.  The
    witness,  within  the  recesses  of  his  mind,  knows  what  has  happened
    in  the  past,  and  I  don't  believe  anybody,  under  our  Constitution,
    has  a  right  to  inquire  into  those  thoughts  of  his  which  refresh  his
    recollection  as  to  certain  incidents  of  the  past,  as  to  whether  he  has
    or  has  not  been  engaged  in  conduct  that  might  be  conceived  as
    improper.

    I  might  say  this:  I  don't  want  to  waive  any  rights  as  to  the  bona
    fideness  of  the  question  or  as  to  the  materiality.  I  don't  know  what
    this  committee  is  after  from  this  witness.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  You  have  a  right  to  consult  with  your  client
    any  time  during  the  questioning,  and  advise  your  client.

    Mr.  Bloch.  Thank  you.

    Mr.  Harrison.  What  is  counsel's  recommendation  as  to  proceeding
    at  this  time?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  suggest  at  this  time  that  if  there  is  no
    evidence  satisfactory  to  the  committee  which  would  indicate  anything
    of  an  incriminatory  character  in  the  answer,  that  the  witness  should
    be  required  to  answer  the  question.

    Mr.  Harrison.  I  move  the  witness  be  directed  to  answer  the
    question.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  second  the  motion.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  All  those  in  favor  of  the  motion  as  made  and
    seconded  will  signify  by  saying  "Aye";  those  opposed,  "No."

    (The  motion  was  unanimously  carried.)

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  It  is  the  consensus  of  the  committee  that  you
    be  directed  to  answer  the  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  the  reporter  read  the  question?

    (The  pending  question  was  read  by  the  reporter,  as  follows:)

    Is  Josef  Fleischinger  your  uncle?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Josef  Fleischinger  was  my  uncle.     He  is  dead.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  he  come  to  the  United  States?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  he  die?

    Mr.  Nelson.  In  the  last  year.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Nelson,  did  he  have  a  son,  Josef  Fleischinger,
    Jr.,  a  cousin  of  yours?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  that  it  will
    tend  to  incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  repeat  the  question.  I  am  not  certain
    that  it  was  understood.    Is  Josef  Fleischinger,  Jr.,  a  cousin  of  yours?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  gave  you  that  answer  and  I  stand  on  those  grounds.

    Mr.  Harrison.  You  mean  you  have  answered  the  question?

    HEARINGS    REGARDING   STEVE    NELSON  133

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.  I  said  I  refused  to  answer  on  the  grounds  it
    may  tend  to  incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Harrison.  Is  that  your  full  statement?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  my  full  statement.

    Mr.  Harrison.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move  that  the  witness  be  in-
    structed to  answer  the  question.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  You  acknowledged  your  relation  to  one  person.
    We  are  asking  your  relation  to  another.

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  understand  the  implications  of  what  you  are  driving
    at,  and  I  take  the  position  that  this  committee  is  trying  to  compel  me
    to  testify  against  myself,  and  I  refuse  to  do  so  on  the  grounds  that  the
    Constitution  protects  me.

    Mr.  Case.  Mr.  Chairman,  is  he  contending  that  he  would  be  testify-
    ing against  himself,  or  tending  to  incriminate  himself,  if  he  answers  a
    question  of  fact  as  to  whether  a  certain  person  is  his  cousin?

    Mr.  Block.  May  I  answer  that?

    Mr.  McSweeney.  You  can't  testify.

    Mr.  Block.  I  don't  want  to  testify.  I  want  to  argue  it  as  a  proposi-
    tion of  law,  that  is  all.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  You  can  consult  with  your  client.

    Mr.  Case.  I  would  like  to  ask  this  question  of  Mr.  Nelson:  Do  you
    know  a  person  by  the  name  of  Josef  Fleischinger,  Jr.?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  have  answered  that  question,  sir,  the  way  1  think
    it  ought  to  be  answered.

    Mr.  Case.  You  haven't  answered  that  question.

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  the  same  question.

    Mr.  Harrison.  I  understand  you  refuse  to  answer  the  question?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  it  on  the  grounds  it  may  tend  to
    incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Harrison.  And  that  is  the  full  answer  you  desire  to    make?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr,  Block.  I  assume  that  goes  to  both  questions.  The  questions
    are  interrelated.

    Mr.  Harrison.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  move  the  witness  be  directed  to
    answer.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  second  the  motion.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  All  those  in  favor  of  the  motion  as  made  and
    seconded  will  signify  by  saying  "Aye";  those  opposed,  "No."

    (The  motion  was  unanimously  carried.)

    Mr.  McSweeney.  So  ordered.  The  committee  directs  you  to
    answer  the  question.

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question
    upon  the  further  grounds  that  because  of  the  fact  I  am  a  well-known
    Communist  it  may  tend  to  cause  harm  to  this  person  that  you  are
    bringing  forward  here,  and  I  refuse  to  do  that,  as  well  as  the  fact
    it  is  going  to  do  harm  to  me.  This  committee  is  trying  to  do  some-
    thing it  has  no  right  to  do.

    Mr.  Harrison.  You  have  no  right  to  assume  that.

    Mr.  Block.  Will  you  pardon  me  for  1  second  while  I  confer  with
    the  witness?

    Mr.  McSweeney.  Yes.

    (Conference  between  the  witness  and  his  counsel.)

    134  HEARINGS   REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Nixon.  While  counsel  is  conferring  with  the  witness,  I  want
    to  make  a  statement  for  the  record  again  that  the  witness'  conten-
    tion that  the  testimony  he  would  give  might  be  harmful  to  his  relatives
    or  to  him,  has  no  standing  before  this  committee,  as  the  witness  and
    his  counsel  both  well  know.

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  made  two  points  already  of
    the  reasons  I  am  refusing  to  answer.  The  additional  reason  is  that
    if  I  would  answer  your  question  whether  I  had  relations  with  this
    person  it  would  definitely  tend  to  incriminate  me,  and  therefore  I
    refuse  to  do  so.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Counsel,  proceed  with  your  questioning.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlien  did  you  arrive  in  the  United  States,  Mr.
    Nelson?

    Mr.  Nelson.  1920.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  On  board  the  steamship  Argentine?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  don't  recall  the  name  offhand.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  From  what  port  did  you  sail  to  the  United  States?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  It  was  from  the  Port  of  Trieste.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  passport.
    Will  you  identify  that  as  the  passport  under  which  you  traveled?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  would  say  it  looks  like  the  one.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  examine  the  fourth  page,  the  photograph
    that  appears  there,  and  identify  the  persons  appearing  on  that  photo-
    graph?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  a  photograph  of  you,  the  only  man  in  the
    picture?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  The  picture  of  the  two  girls,  are  they  the  pictm-es
    of  your  two  sisters?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  And  the  picture  of  the  older  person  is  of  your
    mother?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Case,  Did  the  witness  refuse  to  identify  the  photograph  of
    himself?

    Mr.  Bloch.  Let  it  be  noted  for  the  record  that  the  photograph
    which  allegedly  or  which  seems  to  represent  a  male  is  not  an  isolated
    photograph,  but  is  a  group  photograph.

    Mr.  Case.  The  photograph  constitutes  an  essential  part  of  the
    passport.  If  the  witness  has  identified  this  as  a  photostat  of  the
    passport  under  which  he  traveled,  and  if  the  alleged  photograph  ap-
    pearing thereon  is  not  of  himself,  that  might  tend  to  incriminate  him
    as  traveling  under  an  improper  passport.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Is  that  your  purpose?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  not  my  purpose.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Is  it  your  photograph?

    Mr.  Nelson.  The  facts  about  my  travel  to  this  country  are  known
    and  are  in  the  record.  Wlien  I  applied  for  my  citizenship  I  gave  the
    facts  as  they  are  and  I  have  nothing  to  hide.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON  135

    Mr.  Case.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  as  to  the  question  of  whether  or
    not  this  is  his  own  photograph,  he  should  want  to  answer  that  ques-
    tion. The  only  way  he  can  incriminate  himself  by  denying  it  is  his
    photograph

    Mr.  Harrison.  Would  invalidate  the  passport.

    Mr.  Bloch.  There  is  an  additional  reason  he  may  refuse  to  answer.
    If  this  photograph  of  the  witness — assuming  it  is  his  photograph;  I
    don't  know  if  it  is — were  isolated,  I  could  understand  the  burden  of
    your  argument;  but  here  is  a  photograph  which  is  a  group  photograph.
    By  admitting  that  photograph  there  is  an  implied  admission  that  he
    is  connected  with  the  other  persons  in  that  group  photograph.

    Mr.  Case.  I  might  say  that  traveling  with  a  passport  that  carries  a
    purported  picture  which  is  not  in  fact  the  picture  of  the  holder  of  the
    passport  would  be  a  prima  facie  cause  of  incrimination,  whereas
    identifying  a  photograph  is  not  a  prima  facie  case.  I  think  he  should
    answer  the  question  of  whether  it  is  a  photograph  of  himself.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Docs  the  witness  care  to  answer  that?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes;  that  is  my  picture.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  the  Chair  should  instruct  this
    witness  that  he  is  to  answer  the  questions,  and  to  consider  his  answers
    before  simply  giving  the  refusals  to  answer  without  any  basis.  The
    time  of  the  committee  is  being  wasted  by  the  contemptuous  attitude
    of  the  witness.

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  would  like  to  respond  to  that.  I  don't  want  to
    leave  that  unchallenged.  The  truth  is  that  his  answers  may  tend  to
    incriminate  him,  and  I  am  the  one  who  advised  him  I  thought  his
    reasoning  was  far-fetched,  and  that  is  the  reason  he  changed  his
    answer.  He  is  a  layman,  after  all.  He  is  not  a  lawyer.  I  am  trying
    to  assist  this  witness  as  well  as  assisting  the  United  States  Govern-
    ment, and  I  don't  think  we  should  be  frustrated.

    Mr,  McSwEENEY.  Will  counsel  proceed,  and  we  expect  the  witness
    to  respond  promptly.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  you  entered  the  United  States
    illegally  under  this  passport,  did  you  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  On  what  ground?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Because  it  may  tend  to  incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  The  offense,  if  one  existed,  is  barred  by  the
    statute  of  limitations,  this  having  occurred  in  1920;  and  the  fifth
    amendment  does  not,  in  my  judgment,  afford  immunity  where  you
    cannot  be  prosecuted  because  of  the  alleged  offense  being  barred  by
    the  statute  of  limitations;  so  I  again  ask  you  to  answer  the  question.

    (T\'itness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  What  is  the  question  again?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Read  the  question.

    The  question  referred  to  was  read,  as  follows:

    As  a  matter  of  fact,  you  entered  the  United  States  illegally  under  this  passport,
    did  you  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  don't  admit  that  I  came  into  the
    United  States  illegally.

    Mr.  McSweeney.  You  admit  this  to  be  your  passport?
    Mr,  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    136  HEARINGS    REGARDING   STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Tavenneh.  There  appears  on  the  last  page  of  this  passport
    the  following  certification:

    American  Legation,

    Belgrade,  April  15,  1920.
    I  hereby  certify  that  Mr.  Josef  Fleischinger,  the  holder  of  this  passport,  is  ac-
    companied by  his  wife  Mary  and  minor  children,  Josef,  Elsie,  and  Mary.

    Did  you  not  enter  the  United  States  posing  as  Josef  Fleischinger
    under  this  passport?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  didn't  fill  that  thing  out.  At  the  time  I  was  16
    years  old  or  so,  and  I  can't  say.  Therefore  I  refuse  to  answer  the
    question.  It  might  tend  to  incriminate  me  if  I  answered  I  came  in
    illegally,  or  perhaps  if  you  put  the  interpretation  on  it  that  I  prepared
    the  thing.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  arrested  for  deportation,  were  you  not,
    because  of  illegal  entry?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Wlien  was  that?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  can't  recall.     I  think  it  was  in  1921.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  about  June  22,  1922,  you  thmk?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  can't  be  sure  about  that  date.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  a  hearing  afforded  you  on  October  17,  1922,
    in  Philadelphia,  as  a  result  of  wliich  you  were  afforded  an  opportunity
    to  legalize  your  residence  in  this  country?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right,  but  I  am  not  sure  about  the  date.

    ]\Ir.  Tavenner.  And  is  it  not  also  true  that  on  the  14th  of  Novem-
    ber 1922,  the  Secretary  of  State  waived  the  passport  requirements
    on  behalf  ol  yourself,  your  mother  Mary,  and  your  two  sisters?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  don't  know  what  the  technical  or  legal  procedure
    was,  but  my  understanding  was  that  the  case  was  dropped,  and  that
    ended  the  matter  so  far  as  I  know.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  this  passport  in  evidence  and
    have  it  marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  1."

    Mr.  McSweeney.     Without  objection  it  is  admitted.^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  a  citizen  of  the  United  States?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  naturalized?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Detroit,  Mich.,  1928,  I  believe  it  was,  or  1927,  at
    the  end  of  the  year.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  W^as  Mr.  Antonio  Gerlach  one  of  your  witnesses
    in  your  naturalization  proceedings?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  believe  he  was.

    Air.  Harrison.  Let  the  record  show  that  the  chairman  of  the
    subcommittee  (Mr.  McSweeney)  had  to  leave  and  I  will  preside.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostic  copy  of  a  portion  of  the
    issue  of  November  10,  1937,  of  the  Daily  Worker.  The  Daily  Worker
    is  an  official  publication  of  the  Communist  Party,  is  it  not?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  It  is  not  an  official  organ  of  .the  Communist  Party
    now.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  In  1937  it  was  an  official  pubfication  of  that
    party,  was  it  not?

    6  See  appendix,  p.  154,Nelson  exhibit  1.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON  137

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  believe  it  was  then.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  this  article,  entitled  "Steve  Nelson
    an  Exemplary  Political  Commissar  in  the  International  Brigade,"  by
    Joseph  North,  and  ask  you  to  examine  it.

    (Witness  examines  document  and  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  didn't  have  a  chance  to  read  it  carefully.  It  appears
    to  be  an  article  from  the  Daily  Worker,  but  I.  can't  say  that  all  the
    facts  are  correct,  because  the  story  was  cabled  from  Valencia,  Spain.
    At  that  time  I  was  in  a  hospital  wounded,  and  I  don't  recall  reading  the
    story,  that  is,  the  article,  as  it  appeared  in  the  Daily  Worker,  because
    I  wasn't  here  at  the  time.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  knew  Joseph  North  in  Spain,  did  you  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes,  I  met  him.  He  was  a  correspondent  for  the
    Dail}^  Worker.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  This  article  describes  your  activity  to  some  extent
    in  the  International  Brigade?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes,  I  gather  that  from  glancing  at  it.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  course  of  this  article  it  is  stated:

    The  working  people  of  the  Soviet  Union  were  passing  through  a  bitter  period
    and  Steve  joined  the  Friends  of  Soviet  Russia.  On  the  first  anniversary  of  Lenin's
    death,  he  joined  the  C.  P.  at  the  memorial  meeting  in  Philadelphia.

    Is  that  correct?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  what  the  story  says,  but  the  facts  are  not  so.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Didn't  you  tell  Mr.  North  that  when  he  prepared
    this  article?

    Mr.  Nelson.  How  do  I  know  what  I  told  him  12  years  ago?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  or  do  you  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Would  you  remember  details  like  that  12  years  ago?

    Mr.  Harrison.  Answer  the  question.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  don't  know.

    Mr.  Harrison.  You  do  not  know  whether  you  did  or  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  you  did  join  the  Communist
    Party  in  Philadelphia  on  the  anniversary  of  Lenin's  death?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  not  true.  Let  me  point  out  to  you,  which  is
    what  I  wanted  to  say,  Mister — I  don't  know  who  you. are,  by  the  way.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  That  doesn't  make  any  difference.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  think  I  should  know.  What  I  wanted  to  point  out
    was  that  the  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  was  organized
    later  as  a  Communist  Party  and  not,  as  far  as  I  recall,  was  it  organized
    in  1924.     It  was  the  Workers  Party.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  in  evidence  the  publication  re-
    ferred to,  and  have  it  marked  "Nelson  exhibit  2."

    Mr.  Harrison.  It  is  admitted.^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  did  join  the  Communist  Party,  however,  did
    you  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  It  is  a  wxll-know^n  fact  I  am  a  member  of  the  Com-
    munist Party.     I  must  have  joined  it.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  must  have  joined  it.    All  right.

    Mr.  Harrison.  I  ask  the  witness  to  respond  directly  to  the  ques-
    tions propounded,  "Yes"  or  "No."  I  am  not  undertaking  to  limit  his
    answers,  but  I  do  think  it  would  save  time  if  he  answered  more  directly
    the  questions  asked  by  counsel.

    '  See  Appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exihbit  2.

    138  HEARINGS   REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  portion  of  the
    October  27,  1934,  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker,  in  which  appears  an  arti-
    cle, "Old  Parties  Push  Fake  Job  Slogans  in  Penn  Elections,"  by  Steve
    Nelson.  I  ask  if  that  was  a  contribution  to  the  Daily  Worker  made
    by  you?

    (Witness  examined  document  and  confers  with  his  counsel.)
    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  the  line  of  questions  of  the
    committee  are  pretty  clear  to  me  by  now.  It  is  clearly  an  attempt
    to  build  up  a  line  of  questions  which  will  tend  to  incriminate  me  as
    an  active  Communist,  and  incriminate  other  people,  and  I  reserve
    the  right  not  to  answer  that.

    Mr.    Harrison.  Does    that   complete    the   witness'    statement   in
    explanation  of  his  refusal  to  answer  the  question?
    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)
    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes,  it  does.

    Mr.  Harrison.  The  committee  will  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the
    question.

    (No  response.)

    Mr.  Harrison.  Let  the  record  show  that  the  witness  refused  to
    answer.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  don't  know  if  the  witness  made  reply  to  your
    question.

    Mr.  Harrison.  The  witness  made  no  further  reply  when  directed
    to  answer.

    Mr.  Block.  If  the  committee  pleases,  in  asking  the  committee  to
    reconsider  its  ruling  I  would  like  to  point  out  that  membership  in  the
    Communist  Party,  with  knowledge  of  its  policies  and  program,  con-
    stitutes a  criminal  offense  under  the  Smith  Act  of  1940,  and  the
    answer  to  this  particular  inquiry  would  tend  to  show  that  this  witness
    was  a  Communist  who  was  active,  who  wrote  for  official  publications
    of  the  Communist  Party,  and  would  therefore  directly  involve  him  in
    the  imputation  that  he  is  active  in  the  Communist  Party  and  knows
    full  well  its  policies  and  program.  That  is  an  elaboration  of  the
    assertion  of  the  witness  that  he  is  relying  upon  his  rights  under  the
    Constitution,  particularly  the  right  of  protection  against  self-
    incrimination.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  this  publication  in  evidence  and  ask  it  be
    marked  "Nelson  exhibit  3."

    Mr.  Harrison.     It  will  be  admitted.*

    I  understand  there  is  no  disposition  on  the  part  of  the  committee
    to  change  its  conclusion  that  this  is  a  proper  question  for  the  witness
    to  answer.

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  think  Eepresentative  Nixon  is  fully  familiar  with  this
    law,  and  as  one  who  has  specific  knowledge  of  the  Smith  Act,  there  is
    no  question  or  controversy  in  what  I  have  stated  to  the  committee  in
    support  of  the  witness'  insistence  that  he  be  afforded  his  protection
    under  the  fifth  amendment.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  might  say  that  the  reason  I  think  the  chairman  was
    justified  m  directing  that  the  witness  answer  the  question  is  that  Mr.
    Nelson  has  already,  in  his  testimony,  stated  that  he  is  an  open  and
    avowed  Communist.

    Mr.  Block.  Being  an  open  and  avowed  Communist  does  not  come
    within  the  purview  of  the  Smith  Act.     Being  a  Communist  who  i?

    •  See  Appendix,  p.  I,'i4,  Nelson  exhibit  3.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON  139

    active  and  who  has  Imowledge  of  the  poHcies  and  programs  of  the
    Communist  Party  is,  according  to  the  Govoniment's  interpretation
    as  indicated  b}^  the  indictment  against  the  11  Communist  leaders  in
    New  York,  subject  to  the  penahies  of  the  Smith  Act.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  think  the  record  of  Mr.  Nelson's  statement  on  that
    will  indicate  he  went  further  as  to  the  kind  of  a  Communist  he  w'as,
    but  in  any  event,  in  view  of  his  membership  in  the  party,  and  in  view
    of  Mr.  Nelson's  admission  that  that  membership  and  his  activities  are
    well  Ivtiown,  I  don't  see  how  answering  the  question  would  incriminate
    him.

    Mr.  Block.  I  would  like  to  press  the  objection  and  call  attention
    to  the  history  of  this  committee,  with  reference  to  accusations  made
    against  the  predecessor  of  this  committee,  that  they  were  invading
    constitutional  rights.  It  was  said  in  the  press  that  this  committee
    was  going  to  be  scrupulous  in  protecting  the  constitutional  rights  of
    w^itnesses,  and  I  therefore  suggest  to  the  committee  that  it  be  ex-
    tremely deliberate  in  its  judgments  when  it  is  beginnuig  to  ask  ques-
    tions which  might  tread  on  the  constitutional  rights  of  persons  who
    appear  before  it,  under  subpena  or  otherwise.

    Mr.  Harrison.  The  committee  will  adjourn  until  2  o'clock.

    (Thereupon,  at  12:10  p.  m.,  an  adjournment  was  taken  until
    2  p.  m.  of  the  same  day.)

    AFTERNOON  SESSION

    The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  adjournment,  at  2  p.  m.,  in  room
    226,  Old  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  John  S.  Wood  (chairman),
    presiding.

    Committee  members  present :  Kepresentatives  John  S.  Wood,  Burr
    P.  Harrison,  John  McSweeney,  Morgan  M.  Moulder,  Richard  M.
    Nixon,  and  Francis  Case.

    Staff  members  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel;  Louis  J.
    Russell,  senior  investigator;  William  A.  Wheeler,  investigator;  and
    A.  S.  Poore,  editor.

    Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  be  in  order,  please.

    The  record  will  show  that  Mr.  Harrison,  Mr.  McSweeney,  Mr.
    Moulder,  Mr.  Nixon,  Mr.  Case,  and  Mr.  Wood  are  present.

    You  may  proceed.

    SWORN  TESTIMONY  OF  STEVE  NELSON,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS
    COUNSEL,  EMANUEL  H.  BLOCK  (Resumed)

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Nelson,  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  the
    March  1934  issue  of  Party  Organizer,  a  publication  of  the  Commmiist
    Party,  which  carries  an  article  entitled  "How  the  Unemployment
    Councils  were  Built  in  Lackawamia. County,"  by  Steve  Nelson,  in
    which  unemployment  councils  and  party  units  are  discussed,  and  an
    appeal  is  made  to  the  unemployed,  small  home  owners,  and  single
    young  workers.  Will  you  examine  this  article  and  state  whether  or
    not  you  made  that  contribution  to  that  magazine?

    (Witness  examines  document  and  confers  with  his  comisel.)
    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the
    grounds  that  this  is  interfering  with  my  right  mider  the  fii'st  amend-
    ment of  the  Constitution  and  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment,

    140  HEARINGS   REGARDING   STEVE   NELSON

    along  the  same  line  that  I  explained  this  morning,  that  you  gentlemen
    know  that  the  Communist  Party  is  under  attack,  and  things  are
    ascribed  to  the  Communist  Party  that  are  false  but  this  committee
    contends  they  are  correct,  and  on  the  grounds  of  that  I  cannot  answer
    the  question.

    Mr.  Wood.  I  imderstand  the  question  asked  you  is  whether  you
    contributed  that  article,  a  photostatic  copy  of  which  was  presented  to
    you,  to  the  magazine.  I  fail  to  see  how  an  answer  to  that  question
    would  tend  to  incriminate  you  or  violate  any  of  your  constitutional
    rights.

    Mr.  Bloch.  Mr.  Chairman,  you  were  not  here  this  morning,  but
    this  question  has  been  argued  out  as  a  proposition  of  law,  and  in  addi-
    tion to  the  statements  made  by  the  witness  I  was  given  the  permission,
    the  privilege,  to  elaborate.  I  advise  the  witness  to  persist  in  his
    refusal  to  answer  on  the  grounds  stated.

    Mr.  Wood.  I  still  don't  see  how  an  answer  to  that  question  would
    tend  to  incriminate  him.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  introduce  the  article  in  evidence  and
    have  it  marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  4."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted.^

    Mr.  Block.  May  I  direct  an  inquiry  to  the  chairman?  I  still  don't
    know  the  limits  of  my  rights.  I  don't  know  if  you  will  accord  me
    the  right  to  object  to  the  introduction  of  these  exhibits.

    Mr.  Wood.  It  is  the  right  of  counsel  in  this  committee,  and  as  far
    as  I  know  in  other  committees,  to  confer  with  his  client  and  advise
    his  client.

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  wish  to  note  in  the  record  that  any  failure  on  my  part
    to  object  does  not  necessarily  waive  any  of  the  rights  of  the  witness,
    in  view  of  the  limitations.

    Mr.  TavenneR;  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  the  September  17,
    1936,  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker,  which  carries  your  picture  and  refers
    to  your  candidacy  for  the  legislature  of  the  State  of  Pennsylvania
    from  Wilkes-Barre,  and  to  the  political  value  of  the  circulation  of  the
    Sunday  Worker,  in  which  you  were  alleged  to  have  been  engaged.
    Will  you  examine  that  and  state  whether  or  not  that  is  your  photo-
    graph?

    (Witness  examines  document  and  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  can't  tell  whether  the  photograph  is  mine  or  not.
    It  appears  to  be.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  candidate  for  the  legislature,  as  stated
    under  the  photograph?

    Mr.  Nelson.  The  answer  I  gave  to  the  other  question  applies  to
    this  one  in  the  same  way.     If  you  want  me  to,  I  will  repeat  it.

    Mr.  Wood.  You  mean  you  decline  to  answer  whether  you  were  a
    candidate  for  the  legislature  in  Pennsylvania  in  1936?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Wood.  On  the  ground  it  would  tend  to  incriminate  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes;  first  and  fifth  amendments.

    (Conference  between  the  witness  and  his  client.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  If  it  isn't  understood,  I  mean,  on  the  ground  that  it
    may  tend  to  incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  the  paper  in  evidence  and  have  it
    marked  "Nelson  exhibit  5."

    9  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  4.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  141

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection,  it  is  admitted.^''

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  another  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker,
    bearing  date  November  3,  1936,  which  contains  the  national  list  of
    the  Communist  Party  candidates,  and  under  the  heading  "Luzerne
    County,  Seventh  Legislative  District"  appears  your  name,  Steve
    Nelson.  Will  you  examine  that  and  state  whether  or  not  you  were
    a  candidate  for  office  at  that  time?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  I
    have  already  stated  before.

    Mr.  Case.  Mr.  Chaii*man,  is  it  going  to  be  an  accepted  position
    of  this  committee  that  it  is  going  to  be  incriminating  to  be  a  candidate
    for  public  office  in  the  United  States?

    Mr.  Nelson.  May  I  comment  on  that?

    Mr.  Wood.  In  response  to  the  question  propounded  by  a  member
    of  the  committee,  I  will  state  to  the  committee  that  it  should  not  be
    understood  the  committee  is  accepting  any  such  statements  or  excuses.

    Air.  Block.  I  would  like  to  respond  to  the  Congressman's  inquiry.

    Mr.  Wood.  I  think  I  have  responded  to  it.

    Mr.  Block.  I  cojld  add  something  if  you  would  permit  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  the  paper  in  evidence  and  ask  that  it  be
    marked  ''Nelson  exhibit  6."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  received. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  now  present  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  an  issue
    of  the  Daily  Worker  of  September  14,  1937,  and  draw  your  attention
    to  an  article  entitled  "Fighter  in  Spain  Honored  by  Section  in  Kecruit-
    ing  Drive,"  in  the  course  of  which  article  the  following  paragraph
    appears:

    Steve  Nelson,  who  for  years  has  been  Communist  section  organizer  in  the
    antliracite  coal  region,  is  in  Spain,  one  of  the  key  men  in  the  Washington-Lincoln
    battalion.  But  he  continues  to  inspire  the  recruiting  drive  for  Communists  in
    his  home  battleground  which  he  temporarily  handed  over  to  other  hands.

    Is  that  a  correct  statement?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  my  answer  is  the  same  as  to  the
    previous  questions.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  the  article  in  evidence  and  ask  that  it  be
    marked  "Nelson  exhibit  7."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  received.'^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  present  to  you  another  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker,
    bearing  date  February  24,  1936,  in  which  there  appears  a  letter  over
    your  name  in  which  it  is  stated:

    Instead  of  section  organizers  just  working  out  "plans,"  they  will  now  have  the
    responsibility  of  trying  to  carry  out  some  plans  in  practice.

    My  personal  response  to  the  challenge  is  that  I  will  recruit  25  members  by  the
    party  convention,  of  which  18  applications  have  already  been  sent  in,  including
    13  miners  (5  of  them  employed,  8  of  them  oi\  WPA) ;  2  employed  textile  workers
    and  1  unemployed;  3  professionals.  I  will  make  it  my  business  to  fulfill  my  quota
    by  the  convention.

    The  name  appears  "Steve  Nelson"  with  the  letters  "SO,  Luzerne
    County."

    Did  you  write  that  letter  to  the  Daily  Worker?

    If  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  5.
    "  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  6.
    '2  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  7.

    142  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refase  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds  I  gave
    before.

    Mr.  Tavennek.  I  call  your  attention  to  the  letters  "SO"  appearing
    after  your  name.     Does  that  indicate  section  organizer?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  section  organizer  of  the  Communist
    Party  in  that  locality  at  that  time?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  in  evidence  that  paper  and  ask  that  it  be
    marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  8."

    Air.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  now  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  passport
    application  which  was  obtained  by  the  committee  in  response  to  a
    subpena,  and  will  ask  you  if  you  can  identify  it.  It  is  over  the  name
    of  Steve  Nelson.

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on
    the  same  grounds  plus  the  additional  reason  that  this  has  to  do  with
    my  political  activity,  and  therefore  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Air.  Wood.  Exactly  what  was  the  question.  Air.  Tavenner?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  asked  if  he  could  identify  it.

    Mr.  AlouLDER.  Could  it  be  marked  as  an  exhibit  first  so  that  it
    might  be  referred  to  as  an  exhibit?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  in  evidence  this  photostatic  copy  of  passport
    application  and  ask  that  it  marked  "NelsoN  Exhibit  9."

    Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  received."

    Mr.  Tavenner.  And  I  will  ask  you,  Mr.  Witness,  to  examine
    Nelson  exhibit  9  and  state  whether  or  not  that  was  a  passport
    application  made  by  you  on  the  date  indicated  thereon?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Same  answer,  Mr.  Chairman.

    Mr.  Wood.  It  might  be  pointed  out,  I  believe,  Air.  Nelson,  that  at
    the  moment  the  question  of  whether  or  not  you  made  that  application
    is  the  one  put  to  you.  There  are  no  political  implications  in  that
    question.     Do  you  still  decline  to  answer?

    Mr.  Nelson.  It  is  my  understanding  it  does  bear  on  my  political
    activity.     That  is  wh}^  I  refuse  to  answer.

    Mr.  Wood.  Up  to  this  moment  there  has  been  no  implication  of  that
    character  put  forth  in  connection  with  that  particular  question  or  this
    particular  exhibit.  The  simple  question  asked  you  now  is:  Did  you
    yourself  make  this  application,  a  photostatic  copy  of  which  has  been
    submitted  to  you,  marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  9."  Do  you  still  desire  to
    answer  as  you  did?

    Mr.  Nelson.  The  same  answer.

    Mr.  Wood.  And  you  decline  to  answer  for  that  reason?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Yes.

    Mr.  Bloch.  May  I  say  that  although  on  the  face  it  may  not  appear
    there  is  a  political  implication,  the  witness  may  have  in  his  mind —
    and  he  is  the  only  one  who  knows — his  conduct  and  activities  in  con-
    nection with  the  alleged  making  of  this  passport  application,  and  it  is
    not  for  you  or  for  me  to  say  whether  or  not  this  witness  has  that  in
    mind.

    '»  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  8.
    "  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  9.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  143

    Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Attorney,  you  may  advise  your  client  what  you
    are  advising  the  committee  if  you  so  desire.

    Mr.  Block.  I  so  advised  him.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  understand  the  witness  says  there  is  an  impHcation  in
    connection  with  the  Communist  International.     Is  that  correct?

    Mr.  Block.  Don't  answer.     That  is  precisely  the  advice  of

    Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Counsel,  you  will  have  to  remain  seated  if  you  re-
    main in  here.

    Mr.  Block.  I  am  sorry.  I  thought  I  was  being  courteous.  I
    always  stand  in  court.

    Mr.  Wood.  I  will  go  further  and  say  you  will  have  to  remain  quiet
    if  you  stay  here.

    Mr.  Block.  Evidently  a  precedent  was  set  this  morning.  I  was
    permitted  to  argue  questions  of  law.  If  the  committee  is  going  to  be
    an  Indian  giver  and  take  it  away,  you  may  so  state  for  the  record.

    Mr.  Wood.  Let  us  get  this  settled  now.  You  have  a  perfect  right
    to  confer  with  Mr.  Nelson,  whom  I  assume  you  represent?

    Mr.  Block.  That  is  correct.

    Mr.  Wood.  To  the  fullest  extent  you  desire;  and  having  done  so,
    it  is  up  to  the  witness  to  answer.  The  committee  does  not  desire  any
    argument.

    Mr.  Block.  I  understand  the  import  of  the  chairman's  ruling.  I
    thought,  as  one  lawyer  speaking  to  other  lawyers,  I  might  elucidate
    the  committee  on  questions  of  law.

    Mr.  Case.  The  committee  has  counsel  of  its  own.  I  understood
    counsel  was  counsel  for  the  witness  and  not  for  the  committee.

    Mr.  Block.  I  am  submitting  to  the  chairman's  ruling  under  pro-
    test, because  I  believe  you  are  depriving  the  witness  of  a  constitu-
    tional right  he  has  to  have  his  counsel  argue  questions  of  law  in  his
    behalf.     That  is  the  American  tradition.

    Mr.  Wood.  Proceed.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Nelson,  this  passport  application  shows  that
    the  person  signing  it  stated:  "I  solemnly  swear  that  I  was  born  at
    JElankin,  Pa."     Were  you  born  at  Rankin,  Pa.?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.  I  told  you  where  I  was
    born.

    Mr.  Nixon.  He  answered  the  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  This  application  further  shows  that  a  passport  was
    issued  August  14,  1931.     Did  you  receive  the  passport?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  the  letters  OGPU  stand  for?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelsont.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.  You  can  get  that  answer
    from  somewhere  else.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Isn't  that  Russia's  secret  police?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  I  should  read  to  the  wit-
    ness, to  give  him  an  opportunity  to  either  confirm  it  or  explain  it  or
    deny  it,  the  testimony  of  Mr.  William  O.  Nowell,  given  before  the
    Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  on  November  30,  1939,  or  an
    excerpt  from  it.

    Mr.  Wood.  Proceed.

    144  HEARINGS   REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Tavenner  (reading):

    Mr.  Whitley.  What  is  your  full  name,  Mr.  Nowell?

    Mr.  Nowell.  William  Odel  Nowell.

    Mr.  Whitley.  And  where  were  you  born?

    Mr.  Nowell.  In  the  State  of  Georgia.

    Mr.  Whitley.  When  were  you  born?

    Mr.  Nowell.  July  11,  1904.

    Mr.  Whitley.  What  is  vour  present  residence,  Mr.  Nowell?

    Mr.  Nowell.  Detroit,  1382  Fleming.

    Mr.  Whitley.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Detroit?

    Mr.  Nowell.  About  16  years.

    Mr.  Whitley.  Were  you  ever  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party?

    Mr.  Nowell.  I  was.

    Mr.  Whitley.  When  and  where  did  you  join  the  party?

    Mr.  Nowell.  I  joined  in  Detroit,  in  1929,  in  the  summer  of  1929.

    *******

    Mr.  VooRHis.  When  did  you  leave  the  Communist  Partv?

    Mr.  Nowell.  I  left  at  the  end  of  1936.

    Mr.  VooRHis.  At  the  end  of  1936?

    Mr.  Nowell.  Yes.

    *******

    Mr.  Whitley.  What  national  or  local  party  leaders  do  you  know  or  have  you
    worked  with,   Mr.  Nowell?

    Mr.  Nowell.  I  have  worked  with  most  of  the  national  leaders — that  is,  those
    that  were  leaders  since — committee  members,  and  leading  Communist  function-
    aries locally  and  nationally  for  the  period  1929  to  1935  or  1936,  and  I  have  a  list
    here.  I  have  a  complete  list  here  of  people — it  is  not  exhaustive  by  any  means —
    of  people  who  were  in  and  are  still  playing  a  very  important  part  in  the  leadership
    of  the  Communist  Party  in  various  sections  of  the  country.  I  also  have  a  prepared
    list  here  of  people  that  I  know  to  be  occupying  strategic  positions  in  industries
    and  organizations  in  Detroit  and  Michigan.

    Mr.  Whitley.   Will  you  read  that  list  if  it  is  not  too  extensive?

    Then,  proceeding  to  read  various  names,  he  stated:

    Mr.  Nowell.  *  *  *  Steve  Nelson,  who  went  in  the  International  Univer-
    sity under  the  name  of  Louis  Evans,  is  reported  to  have  served  in  Spain  and
    toured  the  country  shortly  after  in  the  interests  of  the  Communist  Party  and  the
    Spanish  legionnaires,  or  those  people  who  were  sent  to  Spain  to  assist  the  Spanish
    loyalist  cause.  He  was  conspicuous  because  of  his  connection  with  the  OGPU
    in  Moscow.

    Mr.  Voorhis.  Who  is  that?

    Mr.  Nowell.  Steve  Nelson.

    Mr.  Voorhis.  You  know  by  your  contact  with  him  that  he  was  connected
    with  the  OGPU?

    Mr.  Nowell.  In  Moscow.     I  was  present;  I  was  there  at  the  time.

    Do  you  desire  to  make  any  comment  on  that  testimony  that  was
    given   before  this  committee?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  First  of  all,  that  testimony  you  read  there  is  a  piece
    of  testimony  given  to  you  by  a  noted  labor  spy  and  a  rat,  and  I  refuse
    to  dignify  that  as  being  anything  but  a  bunch  of —I  refuse  to  answer
    that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you  this:  Were  you  in  Moscow?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  the  Lenin  Institute?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  leave  the  United  States  and  go  to  France,
    and  from  France  to  Germany,  and  from  Germany  to  Russia?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Bloch.  Just  a  second.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  interject
    at  this  point,  I  want  the  record  to  note,  if  it  does  not  note  explicitly,

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  145

    that  the  witness  is  refusing  to  answer,  I  assume,  on  the  same  grounds
    he  has  ah-eady  urged.  Otherwise,  I  think  the  witness  should  be
    extended  the  right  to  say  so  specifically.  There  were  four  questions
    and  the  witness  responded  "1  refuse  to  answer."  I  would  like  the
    record  to  show  he  is  refusing  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds  he  has
    asserted  in  refusing  to  answer  previous  questions.  If  there  is  any
    doubt  in  the  committee's  mind,  I  want  him  to  be  accorded  the  privilege
    of  saying  so  specifically.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  accord  him  the  privilege.  I  was  probably
    at  fault  in  asking  the  questions  too  fast.

    What  was  the  ground  of  your  refusal  to  answer  the  last  four
    questions?

    Mr.  Nelson.  On  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  not  appear  before  the  American  consul
    at  Vienna  and  request  a  2-year  renewal  of  your  passport,  in  which
    you  stated  you  had  resided  in  Russia  from  September  1931  to  May
    1933,  and  had  resided  in  Germany,  Switzerland,  and  Austria  from
    May  to  July  1943?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Counsel,  have  you  left  the  Nowell  allegations?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Nelson,  I  understood  you  did  not  want  to  dignify
    Mr.  No  well's  testimony  on  the  ground  he  was  a  labor  spy,  and  you
    started  to  say  something  else.

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  as  far  as  I  want  to  go.

    Mr.  Nixon.  You  think  Mr.  Nowell's  allegations,  because  he  was  a
    labor  spy,  are  so  false  that  you  do  not  wish  to  answer?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer.

    Mr..  Nixon.  You  do  not  say  Mr.  Nowell's  statements  are  not  true?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  think  my  meaning  is  clear.

    Mr.  Nixon.  It  is  not  clear  at  all.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question.

    Mr.  Nixon.  In  one  instance  you  say  Mr.  Nowell  is  a  person  who
    could  not  be  believed,  in  effect,  and  in  the  second  instance  you  refuse
    to  answer  whether  the  charges  are  true  or  false.     Are  they  false?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  but  you  can't  hold
    me  from  having  an  opinion  on  what  a  labor  spy  is  and  how  I  am
    going  to  treat  his  testimony.

    Mr.  Nixon.  But  as  far  as  the  allegations  are  concerned,  you
    refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground  of  self-incrimination?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    Mr.  Nixon.  You  do  not  say  whether  they  are  true  or  false?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.  You  can  draw  your  own
    conclusions.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  passport
    application,  which  the  committee  obtained  under  a  subpena  duces
    tecum,  over  the  signature  of  Joseph  Fleischinger.  I  ask  it  be  marked
    "Nelson  Exhibit  10."

    It  bears  date  February  23,  1937.  I  will  ask  you  to  examine  it  and
    state  whether  or  not  you  are  the  Joseph  Fleischinger  referred  to  in
    that  passport  application?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  look  at  the  signature  of  Joseph  Flei-
    schinger and  tell  us  whether  it  does  not  appear  to  have  been  mis-
    spelled on  two  occasions  and  corrected?

    146  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  look  at  the  photograph  on  the  side  of
    that  passport  and  tell  the  committee  whether  or  not  it  is  a  photograph
    of  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  in  evidence  the  paper  marked  "Nelson
    Exhibit  10."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  go  to  Spain?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question;  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  a  legal  passport  to  leave  this
    country  when  you  went  to  Spain  to  become  engaged  in  the  fighting
    there?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  told  us  this  morning  that  you  were  wounded
    in  service.    Was  that  in  Spain?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  anwer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  tell  us  where,  if  at  all?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Tomas  Babin?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Babin,  in  his  testimony  before  an  executive
    session  of  this  committee  on  May  27,  1949,  made  this  statement  in
    referring  to  Steve  Nelson:  "I  met  him  in  Spain."  Do  you  have  any
    explanation  you  desire  to  make  about  that?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  an  issue  of  the  Daily  People's  World
    of  October  7,  1948,  which  carries  a  photograph,  and  underneath  the
    photograph  it  says:  "Steve  Nelson  as  he  appeared  in  the  uniform! of
    Spanish  Democracy."  Will  you  look  at  that  and  see  if  you  can  iden-
    tify that  picture?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  that  paper  in  evidence  and  ask  that  it  be
    marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  11."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted.^®

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Nelson,  were  you  in  the  State  of  California
    in  March  1941?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  an  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker  bearing
    date  March  21,  1941,  and  call  your  attention  to  an  article  the  heading
    of  which  is:  "1,500  at  Coast  meeting  demand  'Free  Browder'."  In
    the  course  of  the  article  this  paragraph  appears:

    The  outdoor  rally  was  called  b.y  the  San  Francisco  Communist  Party  county
    committee.  Speakers  were  Louise  Todd  on  "Why  Browder  was  arrested";  Sam
    Jaye  on  "War  and  the  attacks  on  the  trade  unions";  Steve  Nelson,  county  chair-
    man of  the  Communist  Party  of  San  Francisco;

    and  so  on.  Will  you  examine  that  article  and  state  whether  or  not  it
    speaks  the  truth  with  reference  to  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Same  answer;  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  the  county  organizer  of  Alameda
    County,  Calif.,  in  March  1941?

    15  See  appendix,  p.  ]54.  Nelson  exhibit  10.
    18  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exliibit  11.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON  147

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds,  as  well
    as  on  the  ground  of  the  first  amendment.  This  committee  has  no
    business  interfering  where  a  person  is  acting  politically.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  that  paper  in  evidence  and  have  it
    marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  12."

    Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  admitted. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  ask  if  you  were  in  Oakland,  Calif.,  in  Decem-
    ber 1942?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  Daily  People's
    World  bearing  date  December  14,  1942,  and  call  your  attention  to  an
    article  entitled:  "Spain  Vet  Does  It  Again— Hero  in  Pacific  Fighting —
    Bottcher  Splits  Enemy  Force  in  Buna  Drive."  I  call  your  particular
    attention  to  this  paragraph  contained  in  the  article:

    Bottcher,  born  in  Germany,  but  a  citizen  of  San  Francisco  since  1931,  served  in
    Spain  under  Lt.  CoL  Steve  Nelson,  another  American  of  the  International  Brigade,
    now  in  Oakland.

    WiU  you  examine  that  and  state  whether  it  states  the  facts;  that  is,
    the  portion  that  I  read  to  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  offer  that  paper  in  evidence  and  ask  it  be  marked
    "Nelson  Exhibit  13."

    Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  received. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  on  the  National  Committee  of  the
    Communist  Party  representing  the  State  of  California  in  the  year  1944?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  an  issue  of  the  Daily  Worker  of  May  23,
    1944,  and  call  your  attention  to  an  article  entitled  "Officers  of  Com-
    munist Political  Association,"  in  which  it  shows  that  the  president  is
    Earl  Browder,  the  vice  president  William  Z.  Foster,  and  so  on,  and  the
    national  committee  members,  in  addition  to  the  above  officers,  are,
    among  other  persons,  "Steve  Nelson,  California."  Will  you  examine
    the  paper  and  state  whether  or  not  it  states  the  fact?

    Mr.  Nelson.  My  answer  is  the  same,  grounds  the  same,  fifth
    amendment.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  that  paper  in  evidence  and  have  it
    marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  14."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted. ^^

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  now  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  letter  over
    the  signature  of  Earl  Browder,  general  secretary  of  the  Communist
    Party,  U.  S.  A.,  bearing  date  November  27,  1939,  directed  to  Rhea
    Whitley,  counsel.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  Washington,
    D.  C,  furnishing  a  list  of  the  names  of  the  national  committee  of  the
    Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  and  a  list  of  the  national
    committee  of  the  Communist  Party  .elected  at  the  tenth  convention,
    from  which  there  appears,  on  page  3,  William  Z.  Foster,  chairman;
    Earl  Browder,  secretary;  and  under  the  heading  "Members"  among
    others  appears  the  name  "Steve  Nelson."  Is  that  statement  by
    Mr.  Browder  correct,  or  is  it  false,  insofar  as  it  refers  to  you  as  a
    member  of  the  national  committee?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    1'  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  12.
    18  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  13.
    "  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  14.

    148  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Tavenker.  I  offer  the  letter  in  evidence  and  ask  that  it  be
    marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  15."

    Mr.  Wood.  Without  objection  it  will  be  admitted. ^°

    Mr.  Block.  I  think  you  inadvertently  designated  the  date  as
    November  27,  1949.     It  bears  date  November  27,  1939.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  faii-ly  certain  I  said  1939.  If  I  was  in  error,
    that  fact  will  appear.

    Mr.  Wood.  Does  the  answer  remain  the  same  irrespective  of  what
    counsel  stated  the  date  of  the  letter  to  be,  1939  or  1949?

    l\Ir.  Nelson.  I  answered  the  question  right,  as  I  wanted  to.

    Mr.  Wood.  Having  examined  the  letter,  you  now  say  you  decline  to
    answer  the  question?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    Mr.  Wood.  .A.s  to  its  correctness  or  incorrectness,  so  far  as  it  applies
    to  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right;  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Ihand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  "Proceedings  of  the
    Constitutional  Convention  of  the  Communist  Political  .Association,"
    May  20-22,  1944,  giving  a  list  of  the  National  Committee  of  the  Com-
    munist Pohtical  .Association,  and  under  the  title  "Members  of  the
    National  Committee,"  among  other  names,  appears  the  name  of  Steve
    Nelson.  Will  you  examine  that  document  and  state  whether  or  not
    it  states  the  fact  with  reference  to  you?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Same  answer,  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  that  document  in  evidence  and
    have  it  marked  "Nelson  Exhibit  16."

    Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  admitted. ^^

    Mr.  Moulder.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  a  question?

    Mr.  Wood.  Yes.     Mr.  .Moulder.

    Mr.  Moulder.  .A.re  you  a  member  of  any  pohtical  party  or  organi-
    zation v/hich  advocates  the  overtlu'ow  or  change  of  our  present  form
    of  Government  by  force  or  violence?

    Mr.  Nelson.  1  refuse  to  answer  on  the  basis  of  the  first  amend-
    ment and  the  other  grounds  stated.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Do  I  understand  from  your  answer  that  you  believe
    under  the  first  amendment  a  person  should  have  a  right  to  belong  to
    an  organization  that  advocates  the  overthrow  of  the  Government  by
    force  or  violence?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  do  not.

    Mr.  Nixon.  That  was  the  question.

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  was  not  the  question.  The  question  was  asking
    me  to  state  before  this  committee  what  my  political  beliefs  were  or  are,
    and  in  my  opinion  this  committee  has  no  right  to  ask  me  that  question
    and  I  refuse  to  answer  it  on  constitutional  grounds.

    Mr.  Nixon.  The  question  as  I  understood  it  was  whether  you
    belonged  to  an  organization  that  advocated  the  overthrow  of  the
    Government  by  force  or  violence.  That  is  different  from  belonging
    to  a  political  organization.     Was  that  the  question,  Mr.  Moulder?

    Mr.  Moulder.  Yes.

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  don't  want  to  engage  in  a  discussion  with  the  com-
    mittee, but  I  have  given  you  the  answer  which  I  believe  is  right.

    2"  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  15.
    "  See  appendix,  p.  154,  Nelson  exhibit  16.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  149

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  referring  to  "Nelson  Exliibit  2,"  which  is  the
    issue  of  the  Daily  Worker  of  November  10,  1937,  about  which  I  asked
    you  several  questions  this  morning.  I  asked  you  about  the  article
    written  by  Air.  Joseph  North  in  which  it  is  stated  that  on  the  first
    anniversary  of  i\Ir.  Lenin's  death,  you  jomod  the  Communist  Party
    at  the  memorial  meeting  in  Philadelphia.  I  believe  you  told  me  that
    the  Communist  Party  as  such  had  not  been  organized  as  of  that  date.
    Is  that  what  I  understood  you  to  say?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  and  if  I  gave  you  a
    different  impression,  I  want  it  corrected.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the
    ground  it  may  tend  to  incriminate  me,  as  well  as  interfermg  in  the
    province  of  my  political  beliefs.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  you  refuse  to  repeat  what  you  said  this
    mornmg?

    Mr.  Nelson.  That  is  right.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  presented  here  evidence,  which,  if  believed,
    indicates  you  were  active  in  the  organization  work  of  the  Communist
    Part}^  and  that  you  were  active  as  a  functionary  of  the  Communist
    Party  in  Cahfornia  during  the  years  1941,  1942,  and  1943.  Now  I
    would  like  to  ask  you  if,  during  that  period  of  time,  1941  through  1943,
    you  were  acquainted  with  the  Communist  cell  alleged  to  have  been  in
    existence  at  the  Kadiation  Laboratory  at  Berkeley,  Calif.?

    Mr.  Bloch.  If  the  chairman  please,  I  would  like  to  strike  the  first
    part  of  the  question  as  to  form.  It  presupposes  a  question  of  fact  that
    has  not  been  proved  at  all.  No  such  evidence  has  been  adduced.  It
    is  of  no  probative  value,  it  is  worthless,  and  it  wouldn't  be  accepted
    in  any  court  in  this  land  or  any  other  land.  I  am  willing  the  witness
    answer  the  question  provided  that  preliminary  outburst  be  deleted.

    Mr.  Wood.  The  witness  was  asked  if  he  was  familiar  with  an  alleged
    Communist  cell  existing  at  Radiation  Laboratory  at  Berkeley  during
    the  period  1941  to  1943.     What  is  the  witness'  answer  to  that  question?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds,  on
    grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  know  Bernadette  Doyle  in  California?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  she  your  secretary  in  the  organization  work
    of  the  Communist  Party  in  California?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  And  did  you  meet  at  her  home,  or  at  the  place
    where  she  lived,  with  other  persons  or  any  persons  advocating  Com-
    munist beliefs?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answ^er  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  TavennexI.  Did  you  become  acquainted  in  California  with
    Dr.  Irving  David  Fox?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  become  acquainted  with  Dr.  Joseph
    Weinberg?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  Dr.  Joseph  Weinberg  visit  your  home  at
    3720  Grove  Street,  Oakland,  Calif.,  on  March  29,  1943?

    Mv.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.  Even  if  I  had  a
    memory  for  dates  I  couldn't  remember  that.

    Air.  Tavenner.  Did  you  meet  him  at  any  time  from  the  beginning
    of  1941  to  the  end  of  1943  at  your  home?

    150  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE   NELSON

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  You  do  recall  that  your  home  was  at  3720  Grove
    Street,  Oakland,  Cahf.,  do  you  not?

    (Witness  confers  with  his  counsel.)

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Not  on  the  ground  that  you  do  not  remember?

    Mr.  Nelson.  You  can  make  your  own  deductions.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have.  Do  you  know  Dr.  Giovanni  Rossi
    Lonianitz?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Block.  Mr.  Chairman,  this  matter  has  been  gone  over  before,
    before  this  committee.  The  very  same  question  was  asked.  It  is
    purely  repetitious.  I  suggest  it  to  the  committee  for  the  sake  of
    expediency.     The  witness  gave  the  same  answer  at  that  time.

    Mr.  Wood,  We  don't  know  if  he  will  give  the  same  answer  at  this
    time.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  visit  the  home  of  Dr.  Weinberg  on  August
    17,  1943,  at  2427  Blake  Street,  Berkeley,  Calif.?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  What  grounds?

    Mr.  Nelson.  Fifth  amendment  and  the  grounds  it  might  tend  to
    incriminate  me.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  thought  you  were  referring  again  to  the  fact
    that  you  might  not  recollect  the  time.

    Do  you  recall,  Mr.  Nelson,  a  conference  held  in  New  York  City  at
    Hotel  Lincoln  on  June  23,  1947,  which  meeting  had  to  do  with  the
    American  Slav  Congress  and  the  Croatian  Fraternal  Union?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  on  that  occasion  meet  Tom  Babin?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  meet  Tony  Gerlach?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  rent  a  hotel  room  on  that  date,  June  21 — •
    I  believe  I  stated  June  23  a  few  minutes  ago,  but  on  June  21 — ^either
    in  your  name  or  with  another  person,  at  the  Hotel  Lincoln?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Paul  Crouch?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think,  Mr.  Nelson,  I  should  read  to  you  an  excerpt
    from  the  testimonv  of  Paul  Crouch  given  before  this  committee  on
    May  6,  1949:

    Mr.  Wheeler.     *     *     *     You  had  left  Tennessee  at  that  time?
    Mr.  Crouch.  Yes.     I  recall  Kenneth  May  had  bought  a  home  in  Berkeley,
    Calif.

    Incidentally,  did  you  know  Kenneth  May?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.
    Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing  to  read) :

    and  it  was  at  a  house-warming  party  for  Kenneth  May  that  I  met  Professor
    Hiskey.  I  would  set  the  date,  to  the  best  of  my  memory,  as  August  1941.  I
    talked  with  Hiskey  in  the  presence  of  my  wife,  Kenneth  May,  and  Steve  Nelson,
    who  was  also  present.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  151

    Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing  to  read) :

    Mr.  Russell.  How  well  did  you  know  Steve  Nelson?

    Mr.  Crouch.  I  knew  him  many  years.  I  had  known  him  in  New  York  before
    he  went  to  Spain.  I  do  not  recall  the  exact  date,  but  I  believe  it  was  between
    1934  and  1936  when  I  was  first  introduced  to  him  by  Walter  Trumbull.  I  knew
    him  after  his  return  from  Spain.  I  met  him  at  various  Central  Committee  meet-
    ings in  New  York,  and  when  I  went  to  California  I  found  he  was  San  Francisco
    County  leader  of  the  Party.

    I  was  at  meetings  with  him  of  the  District  Bureau  from  May  1941  to  January
    1942.  I  also  knew  him  througl»1942  and  1943  when  he  was  County  organizer  of
    Alameda  County,  having  succeeded  me  in  that  position,  as  he  frequently  visited
    my  home  and  tried  to  get  me  to  return  to  work  as  a  rank  and  file  member  of  the
    Communist  Party.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds,  and  if  I  may
    comment  on  the  statement  by  a  person  who  apparently  got  a  job  on  a
    paper  down  in  Florida  operating  one  of  these  scab  vari-type  machines,
    you  can  about  guess  what  I  think  of  a  person  that  would  come  in
    that  category.  I  think  it  is  about  the  lowest  thing  on  earth,  a  fellow
    that  would  go  out  and  scab  on  union  members  as  he  does

    Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  minute.  You  are  attempting  to  give  an  opinion
    of  a  man  when  you  decline  to  say  whether  you  laiow  him  or  not.
    Do  you  know  him  or  not?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds.
    I  have  read  stuff  about  the  guy  in  the  papers.

    Mr.  Wood.  You  were  asked  whether  you  know  him  and  whether
    the  statements  he  makes  in  the  abstract  of  testimony  are  true  or  not.

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  said  I  refused  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Just  as  the  witness  characterized  the  testimony  of
    Mr.  Nowell,  he  is  following  the  same  line  of  characterizing  testimony
    of  Mr.  Crouch.  Although  he  will  not  say  the  testimony  is  false,  he
    proceeds  to  leave  an  implication  in  the  record  that  Mr.  Crouch  is  a
    liar.     I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness  to  back  up  his  charges.

    Mr.  Block.  There  is  no  such  implication  in  the  record.  When
    the  witness  avails  himself  of  his  rights  under  the  fifth  amendment
    he  admits  nothing,  and  as  a  lawyer,  Mr.  Nixon,  you  ought  to  know
    that.

    Mr.  Nixon.  I  want  to  tell  counsel  that  as  far  as  the  witness's  stand
    is  concerned,  it  is  apparent  he  is  trying  to  leave  an  implication  con-
    cerning Mr.  Crouch's  testimony,  and  certainly  as  to  his  veracity.

    Mr.  Block.  I  think  that  is  his  right  as  an  American  citizen.  I
    hold  the  same  opinion.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Don't  interrupt  me.

    Mr.  Block.  I  am  sorry  if  I  interrupted  you.

    Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Nelson  has  the  same  forum  and  the  same  oppor-
    tunity Mr.  Crouch  had.  If  he  desires  to  back  up  his  charges  con-
    cerning Mr.  Crouch,  I  think  the  committee  would  like  to  have  him
    do  so.

    Mr,  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  you  have  my  answer.

    Mr.  Block.  I  think  the  witness  is  not  required  to  in  this  forum,
    but  a  proper  forum.

    Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  all  I  desire  to  ask  the  witness.

    Mr.  Harrison.  Mr.  Tavenner,  are  you  satisfied  the  record  shows
    the  materiality  of  the  questions  you  have  asked?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.

    152  HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  You  refused  to  answer  whether  you  belong  to
    any  organization  that  advocates  the  overthrow  of  the  Government,
    yet  you  are  seeking  protection  under  the  fifth  amendment;  is  that
    right?

    Mr.  Nelson.  The  fifth  amendment,  in  substance,  guarantees  a
    citizen  the  right  not  to  bear  witness  against  himself,  and  I  can  tell
    you  the  historical  reasons  for  it  in  our  Constitution,  There  was  a
    time  when  they  flogged  people,  and  people  made  statements  against
    themselves,  and  there  was  a  revolution  In  this  country  by  the  best
    liberal  people  who  insisted  there  should  be  an  amendment  to  the
    Constitution  guaranteeing  to  a  citizen  the  right  not  to  bear  witness
    against  himself.

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  You  are  for  the  type  of  government  that
    guarantees  that  protection  to  the  individual?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  am.

    Mr.  Moulder.  Do  I  understand  you  admit  that  you  are  a  member
    of  the  Communist  Party?

    Mr.  Nelsol<^.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,

    Mr.  Harrison.  He  answered  it  this  morning.

    Mr,  AlouLDER.  And  said  he  was?

    Mr,  Harrison.  Yes.

    Mr.  Moulder.  Are  you  a  Communist?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.  I  think  you  are
    invading  my  constitutional  right  under  the  first  amendment  to  belong
    to  any  party  I  see  fit  to  join,  and  I  think  it  is  not  the  business  of  this
    committee  to  question  any  citizen  along  that  line.

    Mr.  Moulder.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  policies  and  program  of
    the  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question.

    Mr.  Case.  Are  you  a  member  of  a  political  party  today?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  because  if  I  answered
    that  you  would  ask  me  what  party.

    Mr.  Case.  As  I  recall  the  provision  of  the  fifth  amendment,  it  pro-
    tects one  against  testifying  against  himself  in  criminal  cases.  It
    isn't  a  matter  of  just  refusing  to  answer,  but  incrimination  must  be
    involved.

    Mr.  Bloch.  You  should  take  judicial  notice  of  the  fact  there  is  an
    indictment  and  a  trial  pending  in  the  southern  district  of  New  York
    against  11  leaders  of  the  Communist  Party,  in  which  they  are  charged
    with  conspiracy,  and  each  and  every  man  is  charged  with  a  crime
    under  the  Smith  Act.

    Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  moment.

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  think  you  should  take  judicial  notice  of  the  fact.

    Air.  Nelson.  The  reasons  why  I  cannot  answer  that  question  before
    this  committee,  as  my  counsel  already  indicated,  there  is  already  an
    assumption  in  this  country,  and  especially  in  this  body  and  in  some
    other  quarters  of  Congress,  that  the  Communist  Party  is  an  organiza-
    tion that  should  be  prosecuted,  and  it  is  being  prosecuted  at  the  pres-
    ent time,  and  if  I  cooperated  with  you  I  would  incriminate  myself  or
    other  citizens,  which  I  refuse  to  do.

    Mr.  Case.  Of  course  the  matter  of  other  citizens  is  not  involved  in
    the  fifth  amendment.

    Mr.  Bloch.  That  is  true.     It  is  merelv  a  matter  of  ethics.

    HEARINGS    REGARDING    STEVE    NELSON  153

    Mr.  Case.  Your  attitude  would  practically  deny  any  field  for  the
    committee  to  operate  in,  in  the  field  of  subversive  activities.  I  am  a
    new  member  of  this  committee,  but,  frankly,  after  hearing  the  testi-
    mony today  it  would  appear  to  mo  that  the  thing  you  have  left  in  the
    record  is  an  unusually  long  chapter  or  chapters  or  incidents  about
    which  you  do  not  wish  to  testify  on  the  ground  you  might  incriminate
    yourself.  I  never  lieard  of  anybody  who  had  such  a  long  record  he
    could  not  testify  to  without  implying  self-incrimination.

    Mr.  Bloch.  I  am  as  ashamed  as  you  are  that  these  queries  should
    be  hurled  at  any  American  citizen.

    There  have  been  people  trapped  into  admitting  crime  under  an
    inquisitorial  proceeding  of  this  kind.

    Mr.  Wood.  If  you  are  on  your  feet  again  I  will  have  you  ejected
    from  the  room.

    Mr.  Block.  I  am  through.

    Mr.  Nelson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  add  this

    Mr.  McSwEENEY.  Mr.  Chairman,  when  I  was  designated  chairman
    this  morning  I  told  counsel  he  could  only  advise  his  client  and  had  no
    right  to  interpret  the  law  except  to  his  client.

    Mr.  Wood.  I  have  been  extremely  patient  about  it,  but  I  hope
    counsel  will  observe  the  amenities  of  the  committee.

    Mr.  Moulder.  Mr.  Nelson,  in  the  event  of  war  between  the  United
    States  and  Russia,  to  which  country  would  you  owe  your  allegiance
    and  loyalty  in  such  conflict?

    Mr.  Nelson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  Mr.  Chairman.

    Mr.  Moulder.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  suggest  that  the  witness'  testi-
    mony be  considered  closed.

    At  the  close  of  the  testimony  of  Steve  Nelson  I  move  the  committee
    fuid  his  conduct  in  refusing  to  answer  numerous  questions  by  the
    committee  be  considered  and  deemed  as  in  contempt  of  the  Congress
    of  the  United  States.  Therefore,  I  move  that  such  actions  and  pro-
    ceedings be  filed  and  instituted  against  Steve  Nelson  as  may  be  neces-
    sary, for  contempt  of  the  Congress  of  the  United  States.

    Mr.  Wood.  That  will  be  taken  up  in  executive  session.

    Mr.  Block.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  am  asking  your  permission,  purely
    on  a  legal  proposition,  to  make  this  query :

    Mr.  Wood.  When  we  get  through  we  will  be  glad  to  hear  you.

    Any  further  questions?

    Mr.  Tavenner.  No.

    Mr.  Wood.  The  witness  will  be  excused  and  the  committee  will  go
    into  executive  session.

    (Thereupon,  at  4  p.  m.,  the  open  session  was  concluded.)

    APPENDIX

    (Note. — Exhibits  taken  in  connection  with  testimony  of  Steve
    Nelson,  June  8,  1949,  and  filed  with  the  committee  are  as  follows:)

    EXHIBITS

    Nelson  Exhibit  1-
    Nelson  Exhibit    2-

    Nelson  Exhibit    3-

    Nelson  Exhibit    4-

    Nelson  Exhibit  5-

    Nelson  Exhibit  6-

    Nelson  Exhibit  7-

    Nelson  Exhibit  8-

    Nelson  Exhibit    9-

    Nelson  Exhibit  10-

    Nelson  Exhibit  11-
    Nelson  Exhibit  12-
    Nelson  Exhibit  13-
    Nelson  Exhibit  14-
    Nelson  Exhibit  15-

    Nelson  Exhibit  16-

    -Photostat  of  passport  issued  to  Josef  Fleischinger,  April  1920.^

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  November  10,  1937  (article  by-
    Joseph  North).

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  October  27,  1934,  page  3  (article
    by  Steve  Nelson).

    -Photostat  of  Party  Organizer,  March  1934  (article  by-
    Steve  Nelson).

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  September  17,  1936.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  November  3,  1936.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  September  14,  1937.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  February  24,  1936  (letter  from
    Steve  Nelson).

    -Photostat  of  passport  application  of  Steve  Nelson  (passport
    issued  August  14,  1931.)i

    -Photostat  of  passport  application — -Joseph  Fleischinger,
    February  23,  1937.^

    -Photostat  of  Daily  People's  World,  October  7,  1948.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  March  21,  1941.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  People's  World,  December  14,  1942.

    -Photostat  of  Daily  Worker,  May  23,  1944.

    -Photostat  of  letter  dated  November  27,  1939,  from  Earl
    Browder  to  Rhea  Whitley,  counsel,  Committee  on  Un-
    American  Activities.^

    -Photostat  of  proceedings  of  the  constitutional  convention
    of  the  Communist  Political  Association,  May  20-22,  1944.1

    Reproduced  for  record.
    154

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