Administration of Joseph R. Biden, Jr., 2021

February 16, 2021

CNN Anchor Anderson Cooper. And welcome. We are live in the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. This is a CNN Presidential town hall, the first with President Joe Biden. I'm Anderson Cooper. President Biden is just 4 weeks into his Presidency and facing multiple crises: nearly 500,000 of our fellow citizensâAmericansâhave died from COVIDâ19, millions out of work right now, and a nation dangerously divided.

Tonight we're going to be answering questions from the American people. The President will be answering questions from the American people on his first official trip since taking office.

Some of the questioners here voted for him. Some did not.

The President and I will not be wearing masks on this stage. He, of course, has been vaccinated. Over the past several weeks, I have repeatedly tested negative for coronavirusâas recently as yesterday and this morning as well. We will however be keeping our distance from one another, and the audience is very limited, socially distanced, and all wearing masks when they're seated.

With that, I want to welcome the 46th President of the United States, President Joe Biden.

The President. Hey, Anderson.

Mr. Cooper. How are you, sir?

The President. Good to see you, man. Hey, folks. How are you? It's good to be back, man.

Mr. Cooper. Yes, it's nice to see you, sir.

The President. And you know you enjoy being home with the baby more. I don't want to hear this.

Mr. Cooper. [Laughter] I do. Yes. He's 9Â½ months, so I'm very happy.

The President. I get it. No, no, everybody knows I like kids better than people. [Laughter]

Mr. Cooper. I saw a picture of you with your grandson recently.

The President. That's right. That's right.

Mr. Cooper. Yes. So we've got a lot of questions in the audience. We have about 50 or so people here. They're all socially distanced. We have some folks who voted for you, some folks who did not. And we're going to get as many questions in as possible.

Before we get to that, I just want to start with a couple of just big-picture questions about the pandemic and where we are right now.

The President. Sure.

Coronavirus Vaccination Efforts

Mr. Cooper. New cases of COVIDâ19 hospitalizations have fallen by half in the last month, so have new cases. That's the good news. There's this potential threatâpotential surge from the variants coming down the pike potentially. When is every American who wants it going to be able to get a vaccine?

The President. By the end of July of this year. We haveâwhen we came into office, there was only 50 million doses that were available. We have nowâby the end of July, we'll have over 600 million doses, enough to vaccinate every single American.

Mr. Cooper. When you say "by the end of July," do you mean that they will be available or that people will have been able to actually get them? Because Dr. Fauciââ

The President. They'll be available. Mr. Cooper. They'll be available. The President. They'll be available. Mr. Cooper. Okay.

The President. Here, look, weâwhat we didâwe got into office and found out the supplyâ there was no backlog. I mean, there was nothing in the refrigerator, figuratively and literally speaking, and there were 10 million doses a day that were available.

We've upped that, in the first 3 weeks that we were in office, to significantly more than that. We've moved outâwent to the Pfizer and Moderna and said, "Can you produce more vaccine and more rapidly?" They not only agreed to go from 200 to 400âthen they've agreed to go to 600 million doses. And that'sâand they'reâand we got them to move up the time because we used the national Defense Act to be able to help the manufacturing piece of it to get more equipment and so on.

Mr. Cooper. So if, end of Aprilâexcuse me, end of July, they're available to actually get them in the arms of people who want them, that will takeâwhat?âa couple more months?

The President. Well, no, a lot will be being vaccinated in the meantime.

Mr. Cooper. Okay.

The President. In other words, it's not all of a sudden 600 million doses are going to appear.

And what's going to happen is: It's going to continue to increase as we move along, and we'll have reached 400 million by the end of May and 600 million by the middle ofâby the end of July.

And the biggest thing, though, as you remember when you and Iâno, I shouldn't say it that way, "as you remember"âbut when you and I talked last, we talked aboutâit's one thing to have the vaccine, which we didn't have when we came into office, but a vaccinatorâhow do you get the vaccine into someone's arm? So you need the paraphernalia. You need the needle, and you need mechanisms to be able to get it in. You have to have people who can inject it into people's arms.

Mr. Cooper. That's been one of the problems is just getting enough people.

The President. Yes, now we haveâwe have made significant strides increasing the number of vaccinators. I'veâI issued an Executive order allowing former retired docs and nurses to do it. We have over 1,000 military personnel. The CDC isâI mean, excuse me, theâwe have gotten the National Guard engaged.

So we have significant number of vaccinators, people who would actually be there. Plus, we've opened up a considerable number of locations where you can get the vaccination.

Mr. Cooper. I want to introduce you to Kevin Michel. He's an Independent from Wauwatosa. He's a mechanical engineer for a vehicle company.

Kevin, welcome. What's your question?

Q. Hi, welcome to Milwaukee.

The President. How you doing?

Q. Good. My question is regarding education.

The President. Yes.

School Reopening Efforts

Q. And considering that hybrid and virtual school instruction have been in place for nearly a year now, what is the plan and recommendation to get students back into the brick-and-mortar buildings? As a parent of four children, I find it imperative that they get back to school as safely as possible.

The President. My mother would say: "God bless you, son. No purgatory for you"âfour kids home. I really mean it. And by the way, the loss of being able to be in school is having significant impact on the children and parents as well.

And so, what we found out is, there are certain things that make it rational and easy to go back to the brick-and-mortar building. One, first of all, making sure everybody is wearing protective gearâit's available to students, as well as to teachers, the janitors, the people who work in the cafeteria, the bus drivers.

Secondly, organizing in smaller pods, which means that's why we need more teachers.

Instead of a classroom of 30 kids in it, you have three classes in that sameâof 10 kids each in those. And I'm making the number upâless. It doesn't have to be literally 10.

In addition to that, we also have indicated that it is much better, it's much easier to send kids K-through-8 back because they are less likely to communicate the disease to somebody else. But because kids inâsophomores, juniors, and seniors in high schoolâthey socialize a lot more, and they're older, and they transmit more than young kids do, it's harder to get those schools open without having everything from new ventilation systems and havingââ

For example, school bus driversâyou know, we've got to make sure that you don't have 60 kids, or however many thereâdepending on the size of school busâsitting two abreast in every single seat.

And so there's a lot of things we can do, short ofâand I think that we should be vaccinating teachers. We should move them up in the hierarchy as well.

Mr. Cooper. Well, let me ask you, youâyour administration had set a goal to open the majority of schools in your first 100 days. You're now saying that means those schools may only be open for at least 1 day a week.

The President. No, that's not true. That's what was reported, but that's not true.

Mr. Cooper. Oh.

The President. There was a mistake in the communication. But what I'veâwhat I'm talking about is I said opening the majority of schools in K-through-eighth grade because they're the easiest to open, the most needed to be opened, in terms of the impact on children and families having to stay home.

Mr. Cooper. So when do you think that would be: Kâthroughâ8, at least 5 days a week if possible?

The President. I think we'll be close to that at the end of the first 100 days. We've had a significant percentage of them being able to be opened. My guess is, they're going to probably be

pushing to open all forâall summerâto continue like it's a different semesterâto try to catch up.

Mr. Cooper. Do you think that would be 5 days a week or just a couple?

The President. I think many of them, 5 days a week. The goal will be 5 days a week. Now, it's going to be harder to open up the high schools for the reasons I saidâjust like, if you notice, the contagion factor in colleges is much higher than it is in high schools or grade schools.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meetâthis is Justin Belot. He's a high school teacher from Milwaukee who's a Democrat. Justin, thanks for being with us. What's your question?

The President. What do you teach?

Q. I teach English. High school English.

The President. My wife teaches. God love you, fella.

School Reopening Efforts/Vaccination of School Staff

Q. Wonderful. Thank you, Mr. President. So along the same lines of schools, so this great debate on when to transition to in-person learning: While there are numerous warnings not to be in large groups or to have dinner parties or small parties, why is it okay to put students and teachers in close proximity to each other for an entire day, day after day? With large class sizes and outdated ventilation systems, how and when do you propose this to occur? And finally, do you believe all staff should be vaccinated before doing so?

The President. Number one, nobody is suggesting, including the CDC in this recent out report, that you have large classes, congested classes. It's smaller classes; more ventilation; making sure that everybody has masks and is socially distanced, meaning you have lessâfewer students in one room; making sure that everyone from the sanitation workers who work in theâ in the lavatories, in the bathrooms, and do theâall the maintenance, that they are in fact able to be protected as well. Making sure you're in a situation where you don't have the congregation of a lot of peopleâas I said, including the school bus, including getting on a school bus.

So it's about needing to be able to socially distance, smaller classes, more protection. And I think that teachers and the folks who work in the schoolâthe cafeteria workers and othersââ should be on the list of preferred to get a vaccination.

Mr. Cooper. I want to introduce you to Kerri Engebrecht, an Independent from Oak Creek. Kerri, welcome. Go ahead.

Q. Thank you.

The President. Kerri, how are you?

Coronavirus Vaccine Accessibility/Johnson and Johnson Vaccine Development

Q. Very good, thank you. Our 19-year-old son was diagnosed with pediatric COPD at the age of 14. We're told he has the lungs of a 60-year-old. He does all he can to protect himself. Last month, he even removed himself from the campus of UWâMadison, as he feels it's safer and he has less exposure here at home.

We've tried all we can to get him a vaccine. I hear of others who are less vulnerable getting it based on far less. Do you have a plan to vaccinate those who are most vulnerable sooner, to give them a priority?

The President. Well, the answer is: Yes, there are.

But here's how it works: The States make the decision on who isâor in what order. I can make recommendations, and for Federal programs, I can do that as President of the United States. But I can't tell the State, "You must move such and such a group of people up."

But here's what I'd like to do: If you're willing, I'll stay around after this is over, and maybe we can talk a few minutes and see if I can get you some help.

Mr. Cooper. Let me just ask you though: Johnson and Johnson could be authorizedâa new vaccine from them could be authorized in a couple of weeks. That would be a big dealââ

The President. Yes, it would.

Mr. Cooper. ââbringing a lot more vaccines on, millions of more doses to the supply.

Once that happens, given the urgency of these variants and the potential threat from them, should states stop giving priority to certain groups and just open vaccine access for everyone?

The President. Well, it depends on how much they have available. I think there still should be priority groups in case there are not enough for everyone, everyâavailable to everybody.

And look, we don't know for certain. Let me tell you what my national COVID team has said: that the variantsâI mean by "variants," you mean the Brazilian strain, the South African strain, the British strainââ

Mr. Cooper. London. Yes.

The President. ââand London, et cetera. There's thus farâthus farâthere is no evidence that the existing vaccinations available for Moderna and Pfizer do not either make sure that they applyâthey work as well against the strain in the United States. And there is no evidence that they're not helpful.

So if you can get a vaccination, get it whenever you can get it, regardless of the other strains that are out there. There are studies going on to determine it is not only more communicable, but are there vaccineâdo the vaccines not provide helpful protection by getting the vaccine. There are some speculation. I shouldn'tâI've got to be very careful, right?âbecause millions of people are watching this. It may be that a certain vaccination for a certain strain may reduce from 95 percent to a lower percentage of certainty that it will keep you from gettingââ

Mr. Cooper. It may not be as effective asââ

The President. It may not be as effective.

Mr. Cooper. ââagainst a variant, but it still would be effective.

The President. It'd still be effective. So the clear notion is: If you're eligible, if it's available, get the vaccine. Get the vaccine.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meetâthis is Dessie Levy, a Democrat from Milwaukee. She's a registered nurse, former academic dean. She's also currently director of a faith-based nonprofit.

Dessie, welcome.

Coronavirus Vaccine Deployment/Vaccine Accessibility in African American and Hispanic Communities

Q. God bless you. Mr. President, hello. My name is Dr. Dessie Levy. And my question to you is: Considering COVIDâ19 and its significant impact on Black Americans, especially here in Milwaukee, and thus the exacerbation of our racial disparities in health care, we have seen less than 3 percent of Blacks and less than 5 percent of Hispanics, given the total number of vaccines that have been administered to this point. Is this a priority for the Biden administration? And how will the disparities be addressed? And that's both locally and nationally.

The President. Well, first of all, it is a priority, number one.

Number two, there's two reasons for it being the way it is. Number one, there is some history of Blacks being used as guinea pigs and other experimentsâI need not tell you, Doctorâover the last 50 to 75 to 100 years in America. So there's aâthere is a concern about getting the vaccine, whether it's available or not.

But the biggest part of it is access, physical access. That's why, last week, I opened upâI met with the Black Caucus in the United States Congress and agreed that I wouldâall of the Federalâall of the community health centers now, which take care of the toughest of the toughest neighborhoods in terms of illness, they are going to get a million doses, you know, a week, in how we're going to move forward, because they're in the neighborhood.

Secondly, we have opened upâand I'm making sure that there's doses of vaccine for over 6,700 pharmacies, because almost everyone lives withinânot always walking distance, but within the distance of being able to go to the pharmacy, like when you got your flu shot. That is also now being opened.

Thirdly, I also am providing for mobile vans, mobile units to go into neighborhoods that are hard to get to because people are onâfor example, even though everyone is within, you know, basically 5 miles of a Walgreens, let's say, the fact is, if you're 70 years old, you don't have a vehicle, and you live in a tough neighborhoodâmeaning you'reâit's a high concentration of COVIDâyou're not likely to be able to walk 5 miles to go get a vaccine.

The other thing we found isâand I'm sorry to go on, but this is really important to me. The other partâportion is, a lot of people don't know how to register. Not everybody in the communityâin the Hispanic and the African American community, particularly in rural areas that are distant and/or inner-city districtsâknow how to useâknow how to get online to determine how to get in line for that COVID vaccination at the Walgreens or at the particular store.

So we're alsoâI've committed to spend a billion dollars on public education to help people figure out how they can get in there. That's why we're also trying to set up mass vaccination centers, like places in stadiums and the like.

Coronavirus Vaccination Efforts

Mr. Cooper. Are you concerned about the rollout of this online? Because it has been incredibly confusing for a lot of people, not justââ

The President. Sure.

Mr. Cooper. ââyou know, older people. It's younger people just trying to find a place to get a vaccine.

The President. Yes. And I have. Because look what we inherited: We inherited a circumstance here, whereâand now for the firstâwe did a lot in the first 2 weeksâa

circumstance where, number one, there weren't many vaccinators. You didn't know where you could go get a vaccine administered to you because there was no one to put it in your armâ number one.

Number two, there was very little Federal guidance; it's to say, what to look for, how to find out where, in fact, you could go. You can go online, and every single State now has a slightly different mechanism by which they say who's qualified, where you can get the vaccines, and so on.

So it's all about trying to more rationalize in detail so ordinary people, like me, can understand. I mean that sincerely. I mean, I'm notâmyâyou know, my grandchildren can use that onlineâyou know, make me look like I'm in, you know, the seventh century. [*Laughter*]

But all kidding aside, so this is a process, and it's going to take time. It took us aâthink of what we didn't do. And you and I talked about this during the campaign. What we didn't do from the time it hit theâit hit the United States. "You're going to inject something in your arm, it's going to go away." "You're going to be inâit will all be done by Easter."

We wasted so much time. So much time.

Mr. Cooper. I have another question about vaccines. This is Jessica Salas. She's an Independent from the Milwaukee, a graphic designer.

Jessica, welcome.

Coronavirus Transmissibility Among Children

Q. Hi, thank you. As we've been talking about, the coronavirus is very real and very scary. And it's especially scary for children who may or may not understand. My children, Laylaâeight, hereâand my son Matteoâseven, at homeâoften ask if they will catch COVID, and if they do, will they die. They are watching as others get the vaccine, and they would like to know when will kids be able to get the vaccine.

The President. Well first of all, honeyâwhat's your first name?

Q. Layla.

Mr. Cooper. Layla.

The President. Layla. Beautiful name. First of all, kids don't get the vaccineâget COVID very often. It's unusual for that to happen. They don'tâtheyâand thereâthe evidence so far is, children aren't the people most likely to get COVID, number one.

Number two, we haven't even done tests yet on children as to whether or not the certain vaccines would work or not work, or what is needed. So that'sâso youâyou're the safest group of people in the whole world, number one.

Number two, you're not likely to be able to be exposed to something and spread it to mommy or daddy. And it's not likely mommy and daddy are able to spread it to you either. So I wouldn't worry about it, baby. I promise you. But I know it's, kind of, worrisome. Whatâare you in first grade, second grade?

Q. Second.

The President. Oh, you're getting old. [Laughter] Second grade. Well, has your schoolâ have you been in school, honey?

Q. No.

Q. No, we'reâ

The President. No. See, that'sâthat's, kind of, a scary thing too: You don't get to go to school; you don't get to see your friends.

And so what a lot of kidsâand I meanâand big people too, older peopleâthey justâtheir whole lives have, sort of, changed, like when it used to be. It used to be, let's go outside and play with your friends and get in the school bus and go to school, and everything was normal. And now, when things change, people get really worried and scared. But don't be scared, honey. Don't be scared. You're going to be fine. And we're going to make sure mommy is fine too.

Federal Coronavirus Response/Coronavirus Vaccination Efforts

Mr. Cooper. You know, let me ask youâlet me ask you, just for folks who are watching out thereâthere are a lot of people who are scared, and there's a lot of peopleââ

The President. Sure.

Mr. Cooper. ââwho are hurting. When do you think this pandemic isâI mean, when are weâwhen is it going to be done? When are we going to get back to normal?

The President. Well, you know, all the experts, all the committee that I put together of the leading researchers in the world and in the United States who are on this committee of mine, headed by Dr. Fauci and others, they tell me: Be careful not to predict things that you don't know for certain what's going to happen because then you'll be held accountable. I get that.

But let me tell you what I think based on all that I've learned and all that I've studied and all that I think that I know. It's fairlyâit's a high probability that the vaccinations that are available todayâand the new one, Johnson and Johnson, God willing, will prove to be usefulâthat with those vaccinations, the ability to continue to spread the disease is going to diminish considerably because of what they call "herd immunity." And now they're saying somewhere around 70 percent of the people have to constitute; some people said 50, 60. But a significant number have to be in a position where they areâthey have been vaccinated and/or they've been through it andââ

Mr. Cooper. Have antibodies.

The President. And have antibodies.

And so, if that works that wayâas my mother would say, with the grace of God and the good will of the neighborsâthat by next Christmas, I think we'll be in a very different circumstance, God willing, than we are today. I think a year from now, when it's 22 below zero hereâ[*laughter*]âno, a year from now, I think that there'll be significantly fewer people having to be socially distanced, have to wear masks, et cetera. But we don't know.

So I don't want to overpromise anything here. I told you when I ran and when I got elected: I will always level with you. To use Franklin Roosevelt's example, I'll shoot toâgive it "straight from the shoulder"âstraight from the shoulder, what I know and what I don't know.

We don't know for certain, but it is highly unlikely that by the beginning of next year's schoolâtraditional school year in September, we are not significantly better off than we are today, but it matters. It matters whether you continue to wear that mask. It matters whether you continue to socially distance. It matters whether you wash your hands with hot water. Itâthose things matter. They matter. And that can save a lot of lives while we're getting to this point, we get to herd immunity.

Economic Stimulus and Pandemic Relief Legislation

Mr. Cooper. You've made passing a COVID relief bill the focus of your first 100 days.

Those on the right say the proposal is too big; some on the left say it's not big enough. Are you committed to passing $1.9 trillion bill, or is that final number still up for negotiation?

The President. I'm committed to passâlook, here'sâsome of you are probably economists or college professors or you teach it in school. This is the first time in my careerâand as you can tell, I'm over 30â[laughter]âthe first time in my career that there is a consensus among economists left, right, and center that is overâand including the IMF and in Europeâthat the overwhelming consensus is: In order to grow the economy a year or two, three, and four down the line, we can't spend too much. Now is the time we should be spending. Now is the time to go big.

You may recall I managed the last experiment we had with stimulus, and it was 800âno, I don't mean it that way, but it was $800 billion. We thought we needed more than that. And we think we did. We gotâwe wereâit ended up working, but it slowed things up by aboutâand it, depending who you talked toâbetween 6 months and a year and a half.

We can come backâwe can come roaring back. It's estimated that if weâby most economists, including Wall Street firms, as well as, you know, think tanks ofâpolitical think tanksâleft, right, and centerâit is estimated that if we pass this bill alone, we'll create 7 million jobs this yearâ7 million jobs this year.

And so the thing we haven't talked aboutâand I'm not going to go on because I want to hear your question, and I apologizeâwe haven't talked aboutâI remember you and I talking during the campaign, and you had the former guy saying that, "Well, you know, we're just going to open things up, and that's all we need to do." We said, "No, you've got to deal with the disease before you deal with theâwith getting the economy going."

Well, the fact is that the economy now has to be dealt with. And what isâlook at all the people. You have over 10 million people unemployed. We need unemployment insurance. We need to make sure that, you know, you have 40 percent of the children in America areâtalk about food shortageâ60 percent ofâdid you ever think you'd see a day, Milwaukeeâyou'd see in the last 6 months, people lining up in their automobiles for an hour, for as far as you can see, to get a bag of food? WhatâI mean, this is the United States of America, for God's sake. We can't deal with that?

We promisedâlook at all the people who are on the verge of being kicked out of their apartments because they cannot afford the rent. What happens when that happens? Everything beingâlook at all the mom-and-pop landlords that are in real trouble if we don't subsidize this in the meantime. Look at all the people who are on the verge of missingâand how many people have missed their last two mortgage payments and are able to be foreclosed on. That's why I took executive action to say they cannot be foreclosed on in the meantime. Because look at what the impact on the economy would be. You think it's bad now, let all that happen.

Look at all the people who've lost their insurance. How manyâI'm not asking for a show of hands. How many of you had jobs with corporations or companies that provided health care? The COBRA health care. Well, guess what? The company goes under, and guess what? You lose your health insurance. Well, we should be making sure you're able to pay for that so that we keep people moving.

So there's a lotâso I think bigger. And the vast majority of the serious people say bigger is better now, not spending less.

Mr. Cooper. This is Randy Lange, an Independent who supported Donald Trump in 2020.

Randy is the co-owner of a woodworking company here in Milwaukee.

Randy, welcome.

National Economy/Federal Minimum Wage

Q. Evening. You're proposing a $15 minimum wage. Given the lower cost of living, specifically in the Midwest, many business owners are concerned that this will put them out of business, forcing them to downsize or cut benefits. How can you instill confidence in small businesses that this will benefit the Midwest business growth?

The President. Well, first of all, the South is not much different than the Midwest in that regard as well. But here's the thing: If you look back over the last 40 years, as minimum wages increased, people haven'tâthe end result of net employment hasn't changed. The vast majority of economistsâand there are studies that show that by increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour, it could have an impact on a number of businesses, but it would be de minimis, et cetera.

Here's the deal: It's about doing it gradually. We're at $7.25 an hour. No one should work 40 hours a week and live in poverty. No one should work 40 hours a week and live in poverty. But it's totally legitimate for small-business owners to be concerned about how that changes. For example, if it wentâif we gradually increased itâwhen we indexed it at $7.20, if we kept it indexed byâto inflation, people would be making 20 bucks an hour right now. That's what it would be.

Mr. Cooper. The Congressional Budget Office says that a $15 minimum wage would lift 900,000 people out of poverty, but would also cost 1.4 million people their jobs. Is thatââ

The President. Yes, but there's alsoâif you read that whole thing about Pinocchios and all the restâthere are also an equal number of studies that say that's notâthat wouldn't have that effect and particularly as you do itâin terms of how gradually you do it. So let's sayâyou said you're going to increase the minimum wage from $7.25 an hour, between now and the year 2025, to $12 an hour, to $13âyou double someone's payâand the impact on business would be absolutely diminished, and it would grow the GDP, and it would grow, and it would generate economic growth.

But it's not illegitimate as a small-business person to worry about whether or not increasing it at one fell swoop would have that impact. I do support a $15 minimum wage. I think there is equally as much, if not more, evidence to dictate that it would grow the economy and, long run and medium run, benefit small businesses as well as large businesses, and it would not have such a dilatory effect. But that's a debatable issue.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meet another small-business owner. This is Tim Eichinger, a Democrat from Milwaukee, co-owner of Black Husky Brewing.

Tim, welcome.

Economic Stimulus and Pandemic Relief Legislation/Federal Assistance to Small Businesses

Q. Thank you. My partner and I own a small brewery in the Riverwest neighborhood of Milwaukee, and we have nine amazing employees. We rely primarily on selling our beer out of our tap room. And with the pandemic, our business has gone down about 50 percent. Now, we've relied primarily on loans, grants, as well as our own reserves to survive. However, the new assistance has been too slow, and recently, it's gotten more restrictive on how we can apply it. What will you do so that small mom-and-pop businesses like ours will survive over large corporate entities?

The President. Change it drastically, first of all, by making sure we have inspectors general.

You may remember when the first bill passed, you may remember there was a guy running, saying: "What's going to happen is the banks aren't going to lend you the money. They're going to

ask you a question, 'Do you have your credit with us? How many loans do you have with us? What is yourâwhat credit cards do you have with us? How"âbecause even though they were being underwritten, and we bailed their rear ends outâlast time out, they weren'tâit was too much trouble to lend to you.

What did the President do? And I don't want to pick on the PresidentâI shouldn'tâI don'tâ I'm tired of talking about Donald Trump. I don't want to talk about him anymore. But the last administration spent timeâa lot of timeâtalking about how there was no need for inspector generals. We find out that 40 percent of the moneyâthe PPE loans to go toâPPP loans that go to small businesses went toâwent to corporations that were multimillion-dollar corporations. And you're going to see an investigation showing that a lot of this was fraudulent where it went.

So what I'm doing is, I'm providing $60 billion for you to be able to make capital investments in order to be able to open safely and make sure you're in a position that you can do the things that are recommended. You've noticed, there's been very little Federal direction for you all as to how to safely open your businesses. Yet you know, if you're able to test your employees, if you're able to be in a situation if you serve people, you have Plexiglas dividers; if youâa whole range. If you're able to have everybody with a mask and the like, you can do so much to safely open, but you don't get that direction.

So the money, I guarantee you, is going to go to small businesses with people. And I'm shootingâand by the way, the original definition of a small business is 500 or fewer employees. Well, that's not what I mean by small businesses. What we meant by small business is the mom- and-pop businessesâhold communities together and keep people together, and particularly in neighborhoods where if you don't have a beauty shop, a barber shop, a hardware store, a grocery store, et cetera, the center of the community begins to disintegrate some.

So what I'd like to do is, if you are willing to give me an address, lay out for you preciselyâ without taking more time, I'm going to get in trouble; I'm supposed to only talk 2 minutes in an answerâ[*laughter*]âis to let you know exactly how that $60 billion in part of the recovery package will go to small businesses.

Mr. Cooper. Right. We're going to take a quick break. When we get back, we'll have more questions for the President of the United States, Joe Biden. We'll be right back.

[*At this point, there was a commercial break begins.*]

Former President Donald J. Trump

Mr. Cooper. And welcome back. We're live at a CNN town hall event at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, with President Joe Biden. We are back.

Thanks so much for being here. Weâbefore we get back intoâto the audience, I wanted to ask just a question about what we just witnessed.

Before the Senate voted to acquit the former President in the impeachment trial, you said you were anxious to see if Republican Senators would stand up. Only seven did. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the rest "cowards." Do you agree with her?

The President. I'm not going to call names out. Iâlook, Iâfor 4 years, all that's been in the news is Trump. The next 4 years, I want to make sure all in the news is the American people. I'm tired of talking about Trump. It's done.

Mr. Cooper. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said that the former President is, quote, "still liable for everything he did while he was in office." If your Department of Justice wanted to investigate him, would you allow them to proceed?

The President. I made it clear: One of the things aboutâone of the most serious pieces of damage done by the last administration was the politicizing of the Justice Department. Any of you who are lawyers knowâwhether you're a Democrat, Republican, conservative, or liberalâit has been more politicized than any Justice Department in American history. I made a commitment: I will not ever tell my Justice Departmentâand it's not mine; it's the people's Justice Departmentâwho they should and should not prosecute. Their prosecutorial decisions will be left to the Justice Department, not me.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meet Joel Berkowitz from Shorewood. He is a Democrat, a professor of Foreign Languages and Literature at the University of WisconsinâMilwaukee.

Joel, thanks for being here.

Q. Thank you, Anderson. Good evening, Mr. President.

The President. I'm not bad at the literature part, but after 5 years of French, I still can't speak a word. So I apologize. [Laughter]

Q. I'll teach you some Yiddish sometime. How's that?

The President. Iâhey, by the way, I understand a little bit of Yiddish. [Laughter]

Q. I'm sure you do.

Mr. Cooper. It would be a shonda if you didn't. Butâ[laughter].

The President's Efforts To Combat White Supremacy Groups

Q. More seriously, Mr. President, like millions of my fellow citizens, I was shaken by the attack on the Capitol on January 6, and on our democracy more broadly, by your predecessor and his followers. While I appreciate efforts being made to bring them to justice, I worry about ongoing threats to our country from Americans who embrace White supremacy and conspiracies that align with it. What can your administration do to address this complex and wide-ranging problem?

The President. It is complex, it's wide ranging, and it's real. You mayâI got involved in politics to begin with because of civil rights and opposition to White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan. And the most dangerous people in America continue to exist. That is the greatest threat toâterror in America: domestic terror.

And so I would make sure that my Justice Department and the Civil Rights Division is focused heavily on those very folks. And I would make sure that we, in fact, focus on how to deal with the rise of White supremacy. And you see what's happeningâand the studies that are beginning to be done, maybe at your university as wellâabout the impact of former military, former police officers, on the growth of White supremacy in some of these groups.

You may remember in one of my debates with the former President, I asked him to condemn the Proud Boys. He wouldn't do it. He said, "Stand by. Stand ready." Or whatever the phrasing exactly was. It is a bane on our existence. It has always been. As Lincoln said, "We have to appeal to our better angels." And these guys are notâand womenâare, in fact, demented. They are dangerous people.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meet James Lewis, an Independent from Milwaukee. He's a labor attorney.

James, welcome.

The President. James, if I say anything you don't like, let me know right away, will you?

Q. All right. You're all right.

The President. About as big as a mountain.

Law Enforcement Reform/Policing Best Practices/Racial Profiling/Fair Sentencing Guidelines

Q. Good evening, President Biden. I was a public defender in Kenosha County when the police shot Jacob Blake. I witnessed the city I worked in burned and devastated. And recently, District Attorney Michael Graveley denied to prosecute the police officers responsible.

So my question to you is: What will your administration do to correct these wrongs that we witnessed justânot just in Kenosha, but across this country? And what will we do to bridge the gap between communities and their police?

The President. Three things. First of all, I was a public defender as well, and I think it's high time that we had public defenders being paid the same as prosecutors. My son, by the way, was a great prosecutor; he was the attorney general of the State of Delaware, and he was a Federal prosecutor before that. And so I'm not condemning all prosecutors, but I am saying that it matters that you have adequate defense and you are able to attract people who, in fact, can live on being able to be that public defender, number one.

Number two: We are pushing very hard, and I think we'll get it doneâis the legislation relating to what is appropriate police behavior and studying police behavior and coming down with recommendations that are consistent with the legislation that was put in place as a consequence of all the world seeing one man shoved up against the curb and murdered after 8 minutes and 46 seconds.

And so there's a number of things relating to everything from no-knock warrants and a whole range of things you know. But there's legislation that's being introduced separately. I hope it will pass.

But thirdly, I think we have to deal with systemic racism that exists throughout society. And one of the things I'm going to recommend there is that we look at an entire panoply of things that affect whether or not people of color, primarily, are treated differently. And that goes through everything from prosecutorial discretionâyou know, as a public defender what, by that, I mean. What happens isâit will take too long to go through the whole explanation, but let me do itâtry to go quickly.

What happens now is, if you in fact are, in going toâyou arrest someone because they hadâand you want to charge them, you can charge them with robbery or armed robbery. You charge them with armed robbery, you get a lot more time than if you don't charge with robbery. But if you want to make sure that someone who doesn't know much about their representation is able to, yes, you engage in prosecutorial misconduct by offering them to plead to, essentiallyâI mean, it's not the sameâburglary, which gets them 2 years in probation andâso you don't even get a trial. You plead because you don't have adequate representation. You feel like everything is against you, and you're in trouble. When I did the sentencing act, that was designed to keepâ make sure we had the same time for the same crime.

As chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I looked at all 10 Federal districtsâand we took 6 months to do itâand found out if you're Black, and youâor your first-time offense of being accused of burglaryâand maybe you committed it, and you were White and you did the same exact crimeâin all 10 districts throughout the United States of America, a personâand don't hold me to the exact numbers, but the percentages are rightâif you're a first-time White guy, you'd get 2 years; you'd get 7 years if you were Black.

So in order to make sure that you could not send people to jail for the same crime, I came up with thisâthis Sentencing Commission, which said that youâeverybody who commits the crime

has to receive betweenâinstead of zero to 20 years, you drastically cut down the number of years you could go to jail. But say you have toâif youâif it's a oneâfirst-time offense, you have to get sentenced between 1Â½ and 3 years. Okay?

Well, what happens is prosecutors use that as a mechanism to send people to jail. It makes it look like they'reâwe're dealing with mandatory sentencing, which it wasn't designed to do at all. It was designed to make sure that people were treated fairly.

There's muchâI'm sorry to go on. There's much more to talk about, butââ

Mr. Cooper. Yes. We actually have a related question over here. This is Dannie Evans, a pastor in Janesville, who works as a supervisor for the juvenile justice diversion program in Rock County. He's an Independent, voted for Donald Trump in 2020. He's also a member the State's 32-member Racial Disparity Task Force, created in the wake of the Jacob Blake shooting last summer.

Dannie, welcome.

Law Enforcement Reform/Community Policing Practices/Police Training and Recruitment Practices/Systemic Racism

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. President. "Defund the Police" is discussed as an option for reforming policing; however, there are communities where people live in fear not of the police, but in fear of the violent gangs who commit crimesââ

The President. Exactly.

Q. ââin those neighborhoods. How can we be sure that we don't overlegislate police officers so that they can't do their job to protect the law-abiding citizens who live in these high- crime neighborhoods and yet train officers to police with compassion?

The President. By, number one, not defunding the police. We have to put more money in police work so we have legitimate community policing and we're in a situation where we change the legislation. No one should go to jail for a drug offense. No one should go to jail for the use of a drug. They should go to drug rehabilitation. Drug rehabilitation. Number one.

We should be in a position where we change the systemâof sentencing systemâto one that relates to a notion ofâthey start telling you toâas related to making sure that what you do is, you focus on making sure that there's rehabilitation.

The idea that we don't have people in prison systems learning how to beâspending the moneyâlearning how to be mechanics, learning how to be cooks, learning how to have a profession when you get out; the idea that we deny someone, who served their time, access to Pell grants, access to housing, access toâright now, as you well know, most places you get out of prison, you get 25 bucks and a bus ticket. You end up back under the bridge exactly where you were before.

And the fact is thatâthe concern in many minority communities is Black-on-Black, Hispanic-on-Hispanic, not justâbut here's the deal: There has to be much more seriousâhow can I say it?âmuch more serious determination as to what the background and the attitudes of the recruit is, whereâwhat their views are. There should be much more psychological testing, like you would if you go into the intelligence community. What is it? What are the things that make you respond the way you do? Because there is inherent prejudice built into the system as well.

And we also need to provide forâand it's happeningâmore African American and more Hispanic police officers. Now, by the way, they don't get it all right either, by a long shot. But

every cop, when they get up in the morning and put on that shield, has a right to expect to be able to go home to their family that night. Conversely, every kid walking across the street wearing a hoodie is not a member of a gang and is about to knock somebody off.

So it's about education. I'd love to talk to you more about it, because it's the answer, in my viewâthat and educationâactually, access to education.

And one of the things that I talk a lot aboutâand I'm sorry to go on about this, but it's important: I don't think we can look at opportunity in theâlet's stick with African American community for a minuteâin terms of the criminal justice system. That is only one small piece of why people are the way they are. You realizeâI don't know what home you live in, but if you go ahead and you wanted to get insurance, and you're in a Black neighborhood, you're going to pay more for the same insurance that I'm going to pay for the exact same home. Your carâyou never had an accident in your car. If you live in a Black neighborhood, you're going to pay a higher premium on your car.

You're going toâso there's so many things that are built in institutionally that disadvantage African Americans and Latinos that weâin fact, I thinkâand one of the great advantagesâI'm sorry, but one of the great advantagesâas bad as things areâI keep reading from Presidential historians how I've inherited the worst situation since Lincoln, worse than Roosevelt, becauseâ economic crisis, political crisis, racial crisis, et cetera.

But the fact is that everyone has gotten a close-up look now and seen what's happened. That kid holding that camera for 8 minutes and 46 seconds awakened the whole world. When I met with his little daughter, after he was dead, she said, "My daddy has changed the world." Guess what? Not only here in the United States. Around the world, people said, "Whoa, I didn't know that happened."

Dr. Kingâwhen my generationâwhen I got involved in the civil rights movement as a high school student in the early sixtiesâand you had Bull Connor and his dogs in the late fifties sicking on those ladies going toâin their black dresses going to churchâand little kids and fire hoses ripping their skin off. He said, "What happened there wasâit was a second emancipation." Because people in places where there weren't Black communities said: "That really happens? I didn't believe it." They saw it happen. And so it generated theâthe Voting Rights Act. It generated the Civil Rights Act. And he called it the "second emancipation." We have a chance nowâa chance nowâto make significant change in racial disparities.

And I'm going to say something that's going to get me in trouble, whichâI couldn't go through the whole show without doing that. [*Laughter*] And that is thatâthink about it: If you want to know where the American public is, look at the money being spent in advertising. Did you ever, 5 years ago, think every second or third ad out of five or six you'd turn on would be biracial couples?

No, no, I'm not being facetiousâthe reason I'm so hopeful is, this new generationâthey're not like us. They're thinking differently. They're more open. And we've got to take advantage of it.

Mr. Cooper. I want you toââ

The President. I'm sorry.

Mr. Cooper. I want you to meet Luverda Martin, a Democrat from Mequan or Mequonââ

Q. Mequon.

Mr. Cooper. Mequon, sorry. Luverda is a certified nurse, midwife. Welcome.

Q. Good evening, Mr. President.

The President. Good evening.

The President's Agenda

Q. Our Nation's experiences with and through COVIDâ19 and other recent tragedies have strengthened the foundation of division among Americans. What are your immediate and tangible plans to address how deeply divided we are as a Nation?

The President. I take issue with what everybody says about the division. For example, my plan on COVID: 69 percent of the American people support itâ69. In this Stateârecent pollâ 60 percent. Sixty percent. Forty-five percent of Trump voters and fifty-five percent of Republican voters. The Nation is not divided. You go out there and take a look and talk to people. You have fringes on both ends, but it's not nearly as divided as we make it out to be. And we have to bring it together.

You may remember howâtrouble I get in. I said there were three reasons I was running: One, to restore the soul of the countryâdecency, honor, integrity; talk about the things that matter to people, treat people with dignity. Secondly, I said, to rebuild the backbone of the country, the middle class, and this time bring everybody along and have a chance. And the third reason was unite the country. On my own primary, I got a lot of: "Unite the country? What are you talking about?"

You cannot function in our system without consensus, other than abusing power at the executive level. So I really think there's so many things that we agree on that we don't focus enough on. And that's, in large part, I think, because we don't just condemn the things that are so obviously wrongâobviously wrongâthat everybody agrees on. The way they were raised. The way we were raised. As my mother would say, if half the things that occurred in the last campaign came out of my mouth, as she'd say as a kid, we'd wash my mouth out with soap. [*Laughter*] I mean, we have to be more decent and treat people with respect and just decency.

Mr. Cooper. But let meââ

The President. Andââ

Immigration Reform

Mr. Cooper. Let me ask aboutâa question which does often divide many people in this country: immigration.

The President. Yes.

Mr. Cooper. Your administration, along with congressional Democrats, expected to unveil an immigration reform bill just this week. You want a pathway to citizenship for the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants. Would you sign any immigration bill if it did not include that: a pathway for the roughly 11 million undocumentedââ

The President. Yes, there's a whole range of things that relate to immigration, including the whole idea how you deal withâyou know, what confuses people, is you talk about refugees, you talk about undocumented, you talk about people who are seeking asylum, and you talk about people who are coming from theâthat are coming from camps or being held around the world.

And there are four different criteria for being able to come to the United States. The vast majority of the people, those 11 million undocumented, they're not Hispanics; they're people who came on a visaâwho was able to buy a ticket to get in a plane and didn't go home. They didn't come across the Rio Grande swimmingâexcuse me. [*Laughter*] Andâsorry, that's the Irish in me. [*Laughter*]

But all kidding aside. So there are a lot of things that relateâbut I think that we can no longerâlook, you've heardâI'mâeven if you're not involved in politics at all, you've probably heard me say this a thousand times, and matter ofâthat everyone is entitled to be treated with decency, with dignity. Everyone is entitled to that.

And we don't do that enough. For the first time in American history, if you're seeking asylumâmeaning you're being persecuted, you're seeking asylumâyou can't do it from the United States. You used to come, have an asylum officer determine whether or not you met the criteria, and send you back if you in factâbut you can't even do that. You've got to seek asylum from abroad.

Mr. Cooper. But just to be clear, thoughâand I know you're going to be announcing stuff later this week, or that's what I've heardâyou do want a pathway to citizenshipââ

The President. Yes.

Mr. Cooper. ââfor roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants.

The President. Yes.

Mr. Cooper. And that would be essential in any bill for you?

The President. Well, yes. Theâbut, by the way, if you came along and said to me, "In the meantime, we can work out a system whereby we're going to"âfor example, we used to allow refugeesâ125,000 refugees in the United States in a yearly basis. It was as high as 250,000.

Trump cut it to 5,000.

Come with me into Sierra Leone. Come with me into parts of Lebanon. Come with me around the world and see people piled up in camps, kids dying, no way out, refugees fleeing from persecution. We, the United States, used to do our part. We were part of that. We wereâand you know, that'sâyou know, "send me your huddled masses." Come on.

And so I would, if you had a refugee bill by itselfâI'm not suggesting thatâbut I wouldâ there's things that I would deal by itself, but not at the expense of saying, "I'm never going to do the other." There is a reasonable path to citizenship.

And it shows upâone of the reasons why we have been able to compete with the rest of the world so well is, most of our major competitors are xenophobic. You remember quiteâI remember you questioned me when I came back from China. And I said, "I predict, within less than a year, they're going to end their 'one China policy.'" And I got clobbered byâsayingâ because they said Biden didn't talk about the fact thatâhow immoral it was. And it was when we were running against a Republican ticket, led by Mitt Romney, a fine guy.

Mr. Cooper. You just talked to China's President, I believe.

The President. Yes, for 2 hours.

U.S.-China Relations/Human Rights Issues in China

Mr. Cooper. What about the Uyghurs? What about the human rights abuses in China?

The President. We must speak up for human rights. It's who we are. We can'tâmy comment to him wasâand I know him well, and he knows me well. We'reâa 2-hour conversation.

Mr. Cooper. You talked about this to him?

The President. I talked about this too. And that's not so much refugee, but I talked aboutâI saidâlook, you know, Chinese leadersâif you know anything about Chinese history, it has always beenâthe time when China has been victimized by the outer world is when they haven't been unified at home. So the centralâto vastly overstate itâthe central principle of Xi Jinping is

that there must be a united, tightly controlled China. And he uses his rationale for the things he does based on that.

I point out to him: No American President can be sustained as a President if he doesn't reflect the values of the United States. And so the idea I'm not going to speak out against what he's doing in Hong Kong, what he's doing with the Uyghurs in western mountains of China and Taiwan, trying to end the "one China" policy by making it forcefulâI saidâand by theâhe said heâhe gets it. Culturally, there are different norms that each country and theyâtheir leadersâ are expected to follow.

But my point was that when I came back from meeting with him and traveling 17,000 miles with him when I was Vice President and he was the vice presidentâthat's how I got to know him so well, at the request of President Huânot a jokeâhis predecessor, President Huâand President Obama wanted us to get to know one another because he was going to be the President.

And I came back and said they're going to end their one-child policy, because they're so xenophobic, they won't let anybody else in, and more people are retired than working. How can they sustain economic growth when more people are retired?

Mr. Cooper. When you talk to him, though, about human rights abuses, is that justâis that as far as it goes in terms of the U.S.? Or is there any actual repercussions for China?

The President. Well, there will be repercussions for China, and he knows that. What I'm doing is making clear that we, in fact, are going to continue to reassert our role as spokespersons for human rights at the U.N. and other agencies that have an impact on their attitude.

China is trying very hard to become the world leader and to get that moniker. And to be able to do that, they have to gain the confidence of other countries. And as long as they're engaged in activity that is contrary to basic human rights, it's going to be hard for them to do that.

But it's much more complicated than that. I'mâI shouldn't have tried to talk China policy in 10 minutes on television here.

Mr. Cooper. Well, let me bring it back to the United States. I want you to meet Joycelyn Fish, a Democrat from Racine. Joycelyn is the director of marketing for a community theater.

Joycelyn, welcome. Your question?

Q. Hello. Good evening, Mr. President.

The President. Good evening.

Q. Student loans are crushing my family, friends, and fellow Americans.

The President. Me too. [Laughter]

Student Loan Forgiveness Programs/Postsecondary Education

Q. The American Dreamââ

The President. You think I'm kidding.

Q. ââis to succeed. But how can we fulfill that dream when debt is many people's only option for a degree? We need student loan forgiveness beyond the potential $10,000 your administration has proposed. We need at least a $50,000 minimum. What will you do to make that happen?

The President. I will not make that happen. It depends on whether or not you go to a private university or public university. It depends on the idea that I say to a community, "I'm going to forgive the debt"âthe billions of dollars in debt for people who have gone to Harvard and Yale

and Penn and schools my childrenâI went to a great school. I went to a State school. But is that going to be forgiven, rather than use that money to provide for early education for young children who areâcome from disadvantaged circumstances?

But here's what I think: I think everyoneâand I've been proposing this for 4 yearsâ everyone should be able to go to community college for free. For free. That'sâthat costs $9 billion, and we should pay for it. And the tax policies we have nowâwe should be able to pay for you. We spend almost that money as a break for people who own race horses. And I think any family making under $125,000 whose kids go to a State university they get into, that should be free as well.

And the thing I do in terms of student debt that's accumulated is provide for changing the existing system now for debt forgiveness if you engage in volunteer activity. For example, if you wereâif you're teaching school, after 5 years, you'd loseâyou would have $50,000 of your debt forgiven. If you worked in a battered women's shelter, if you workedâand so on. So you'll be able to forgive debt.

Thirdly, I'm going to change the position that we have now to allow for debt forgivenessâ because it's so hard to calculateâwhereby you can now, depending on how much you make and what program you sought, you can work off that debt by the activity you have, and you cannot be charged more than x percent of your take-home pay so that it doesn't affect your ability to buy a car, own a home, et cetera.

Each of my children graduated from school. I mortgaged the house. I was listed as the poorest man in Congress forânot a jokeâfor over 30 years. Andâbut I was able to borrowâI bought a home I spent a lot of time working on, and I was able to sell it for some profit.

But my oldest son graduated, after undergraduate and graduate school, with $136,000 in debt after working 40âI mean, excuse me, 30 hours a week during school. My other son, who went to Georgetown and Yale Law School, graduated $142,000 in debt, and he worked for a parking service inâdown in Washington. My daughter went to Tulane University and then got a masters at Penn. She graduated $103,000 in debt.

So I don't think anybody should have to pay for that, but I do think you should be able to work it off. My daughter is a social worker. My other son became aâran the World Food Program U.S.A., and so on. They didn't qualify.

But my point is: I understand the impact of the debt, and it can be debilitating. And I think there is a whole question about what universities are doing. They don't need more skyboxes.

What they need is more money invested in makingâso that's why I provide, for example, $80 billionâ$70 billion over 10 years for HBCUs and other minority-serving universities, because they don't have the laboratories to be able to bring in those Government contracts that can train people in cybersecurity or other future endeavors that pay well.

But I do think that, in this moment of economic pain and strain, that we should be eliminating interest on the debts that are accumulated, number one. And number two, I'm prepared to write off a $10,000 debt, but not 50.

Mr. Cooper. Mr. President, let me ask youââ

The President. Because I don't think I have the authority to do it by the sign of the pen.

The President's Adjustment to Daily Life in the White House

Mr. Cooper. You have, over the yearsâover your career, you've obviously spent a great deal of time at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, except now you're living there and you're President. It's been 4 weeks. What's it like? How's it different?

The President. I get up in the morning, look at Jill, and say, "Where the hell are we?" [Laughter] No, it'sâlook, it'sâyou know, I've only been President 4 weeks. And sometimesâ because things are moving so fast, not because of burdenâit feels like 4 years. It's not because of the burden; it's because there's so much happening that you focus on. You're constantly focusing on one problem or opportunity, one rightâad seriatum.

But what happens is that it'sâwhat I didn't realize: I had been in the Oval Office a hundred times as Vice Presidentâor more than that, every morning, for the initial meetingsâbut I had never been up in the Residence. And one of the things thatâI don't know about you all, but I was raised in the way that you didn't look for anybody to wait on you. And it'sâwe'reâI find myself extremely self-conscious. There are wonderful people who work at the White House. But someone, you know, standing there and, you know, making sure Iâhands me my suitcoat orââ

Mr. Cooper. You'd never been in the Residence of the White House?

The President. I'd only been upstairs in the Yellow Room. You know, the Oval upstairs.

Mr. Cooper. I don't know, I've never been there either, but Iâ[laughter].

The President. No. Andâbut it'sâbut look, the people down there are wonderful. And I find that, you knowâlike, my dadâyou've heard me say this beforeâmy dad used to say, "Everybodyâeverybodyâis entitled to be treated with respect." And it's interesting how decent and incredible these folks are.

Mr. Cooper. Is it different than you expected it to be, in some ways?

The President. You know, I don't know what I ever expected it to be. Iâit is different in thatâI'll get in trouble in here. I said when I was running, I wanted to be President not to live in the White House, but to be able to make the decisions about the future of the country. And so living in the White House, as you've heard other Presidents who have been extremely flattered to live there, hasâit's a little like a gilded cage in terms of being able to butâwalk outside and do things.

The Vice President's residence was totally different. You're on 80 acres, overlooking the rest of the city. And you can walk out, and there's a swimming pool. You can walk off a porch in the summer and jump in a pool, and you know, go into work. You can ride a bicycle around and never leave the property and work out. And you canâbut the White House is very different.

And I feel a sense ofâI must tell you, a sense of history about it. Jon Meacham, who you know, and several other Presidential historians, helped me with myâI asked my brother, who's good at this, to set up the Oval Office for me, because it all happens within 2 hours, you know? Literally. They move everything out and move something.

And it was interesting to hear these historians talk about whatâwhat other Presidents have gone through in the moments and who were the people who stepped up to the ball and who are the people who didn't. And what you realize is the most consequential thing for me isâalthough I've known this watching seven Presidents who I got to know fairly wellâis I always, in the past, looked at the Presidency in the terms of Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt and George Washington and how canâthey're superhuman.

But I had to remind myself, they're really fine men that I knew wellâthe last seven Presidentsâand at least there are people who I knew well enough to know that I can play on the same team with.

So it took away the sense of: "This isâmy God, you know, I'm not Abraham Lincoln. I'm not Franklin Roosevelt. How do I deal with these problems?"

Mr. Cooper. Have you picked up the phone and called any former President yet?

The President. Yes, I have.

Mr. Cooper. Do you want to say who?

The President. No, I don't. [Laughter] They're private conversations. [Laughter] Butâand by the way, all of them have, with one exception, picked up the phone and called me as well. [Laughter]

Mr. Cooper. I know you don't want to talk about him, butâ[laughter].

The President. No, but, look, it's aâit's the greatest honor I think an American can be given, from my perspective. And I literally pray that I have the capacity to do for the country what you all deserve need be done.

But one thing I learned after 8 years with Barack is, no matter how consequential the decisionâI got to be the last person in the room with him, literally, on every decisionâI can make a recommendation, but I walked out of the room, and it was all him, man. Nobody else. The buck stops there.

And that's where you pray for making sure that you're looking at the impact on the country and a little bit of good luck at the judgment you're making.

Mr. Cooper. Mr. President, thank you so much for joining usââ

The President. Thank you.

Mr. Cooper. ââin this town hall. We want to thank our audience for being here, for their questions. We also want to thank the Pabst Theater for hosting us.

NOTE: The President spoke at 7:59 p.m. at the Pabst Theater. In his remarks, he referred to Wyatt Morgan Cooper, son of Mr. Cooper; National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Anthony S. Fauci; Minneapolis, MN, resident Darnella Frazier, who filmed and later posted to social media a video of police officers fatally subduing George Floyd during an arrest in Minneapolis, MN, on May 25, 2020; Gianna Floyd, daughter of Mr. Floyd; and Sen. W. Mitt Romney, in his former capacity as the 2012 Republican Presidential nominee. He also referred to his brother James. Mr. Cooper referred to Sens. Richard M. Burr, William M. Cassidy, Susan M. Collins, Lisa A. Murkowski, Benjamin E. Sasse, and Patrick J. Toomey. A participant referred to Jacob Blake, Jr., who was shot multiple times during an encounter with police in Kenosha, WI, on August 23, 2020; and Kenosha, WI, Police Department officers Rusten Sheskey, Vincent Arenas, and Brittany Meronek, who were involved in the encounter.

Categories: Addresses and Remarks : CNN Presidential town hall and question-and-answer session in Milwaukee, WI.

Locations: Milwaukee, WI.

Names: Anderson Cooper; Biden, Ashley; Biden, Jill T.; Biden, R. Hunter; Cooper, Anderson; Cooper, Wyatt Morgan; Fauci, Anthony S.; Floyd, Gianna; Frazier, Darnella; Hu Jintao; Levy, Dessie; Lewis, James; Meacham, Jon; Obama, Barack; Romney, W. Mitt; Salas, Jessica; Salas, Layla; Trump, Donald J.; Xi Jinping.

Subjects: Business and industry : Small businesses, promotion efforts; Children and youth : Mental health and awareness, improvement efforts; China : Hong Kong, status; China : Human rights issues; China : President; China : Relations with U.S.; China : Taiwan, status; Civil rights : Hate crimes, prevention efforts; Civil rights : Minorities :: Racial profiling; Civil rights : Racial equality; CNN; Congress : Congressional Black Caucus; Diseases : Coronavirus, domestic prevention efforts; Economy, national : Strengthening efforts; Education : Early childhood

education programs; Education : Postsecondary education :: Community colleges; Education : Postsecondary education :: Historically Black Colleges and Universities; Education : Postsecondary education :: Student loans, debt forgiveness; Education : Schools, efforts to reopen; Employment and unemployment : Job losses; Employment and unemployment : Unemployment insurance; Health and Human Services, Department of : National Institutes of Health; Health and Human Services, Department of: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; Health and medical care : Employer-based health insurance coverage; Housing : Eviction and foreclosure, protection efforts; Immigration and naturalization : Citizenship; Immigration and naturalization : Foreign nationals and refugees, U.S. admission policy; Immigration and naturalization : Reform; Immigration and naturalization : Refugees; Immigration and naturalization : Visa policy, U.S.; Justice, Department of : Civil Rights Division; Labor issues : Federal minimum wage; Law enforcement and crime : Community-oriented policing, strengthening efforts; Law enforcement and crime : Policing best practices, improvement efforts; Law enforcement and crime : Sentencing requirements, reform; Minnesota : 2020 police-involved death of George Floyd in Minneapolis; Taiwan : Relations with China; Wisconsin : President's visits.

DCPD Number: DCPD202100146.