[Congressional Record (Bound Edition), Volume 153 (2007), Part 25]
[House]
[Pages 33724-33731]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]




                           BLUE DOG COALITION

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 18, 2007, the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. Ross) is recognized 
for 60 minutes as the designee of the majority leader.
  Mr. ROSS. Madam Speaker, this evening, as most Tuesday evenings, I'm 
joined by members of the fiscally conservative Democratic Blue Dog 
Coalition as we come to the floor of the United States House of 
Representatives to talk about the debt and the deficit and what that 
means for the future of this country and how so many of today's 
priorities continue to go unmet because of this.
  Today's national debt is $9,169,206,830,867 and some change. For 
every man, woman and child in America, their share of the national 
debt, $30,205.
  As you walk the halls of Congress, Madam Speaker, as you walk the 
halls of the Cannon, Longworth and Rayburn House Office Buildings, you 
will easily know when you're walking by the door of a fellow Blue Dog 
member because you will see this poster that reminds us of the national 
debt, as well as your share.
  This evening we want to talk about PAYGO. It's an acronym for pay-as-
you-go, and basically there was a lot

[[Page 33725]]

made to do about the first 100 legislative hours in this new Democratic 
majority. Well, the 47 of us in the fiscally conservative Democratic 
Blue Dog Coalition were proud of what we were able to accomplish in 
this first legislative hour under this new Democratic majority, and 
that was reinstating the PAYGO rules, which means pay-as-you-go. If you 
have got a new program you want to fund, you've got to show us how 
you're going to pay for it. If you want to cut a tax, you've got to 
show us how you're going to pay for it.
  The business of borrowing money from China to fund programs and tax 
cuts in this country are over, and we want to thank the new Democratic 
leadership for their commitment, their commitment not to bring a bill 
to this floor that's not paid for.
  At this time to talk more about this issue and a lot of talk about 
AMT, the alternative minimum tax is going to touch a lot more people 
this year. We want to protect those people. We want to make sure 
they're not taxed, but we also want to make sure that that bill that 
comes to this floor is paid for. It doesn't make sense to protect 
people from taxes if we're simply borrowing the money from China and 
then asking our children and grandchildren to foot the bill.
  That's why I was very disappointed last week when the Senate voted 
88-5 to fix the AMT. They took the easy way out. It wasn't paid for. 
The Senate's plan borrows $50 billion just for this year, $50 billion 
from China to pay for a fix to the alternative minimum tax. We have a 
plan in the House not only to fix it but to pay for it, and we voted 
for that a couple of weeks ago on the House floor and we're going to 
vote on it again this week.
  And to talk more about this and what it all means for this country 
and for future generations is one of the founders of the Blue Dog 
Coalition, my friend, John Tanner from Tennessee.
  Mr. TANNER. Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and I will be brief 
because we have a lot of Blue Dogs here tonight that are going to speak 
to this issue, and they will elaborate on what I have to say.
  The PAYGO rule, as we have here now as Mr. Ross pointed out, is 
basically what all of us do in our private lives. We live within our 
means. We pay our bills, and we hope we have some left to invest in the 
future. This government has done none of that. And some people around 
here have argued about the AMT situation that you alluded to, that we 
don't have to pay for that because it wasn't intended to affect these 
people; therefore, it doesn't exist. If I said that in Tennessee, they 
would say that fellow's been in Washington too long. Only in Washington 
would somebody even dare make a statement as ludicrous as that is.
  We've also heard people here in this town say deficits don't matter. 
Well, if deficits don't matter, why don't we abolish the tax code and 
just borrow what we need? Of course deficits matter; they matter to all 
of us.
  Some people around here think the laws of arithmetic stop at the 
steps of the Capitol and the front door of the White House. Well, they 
don't, and this is why.
  As we are plunging this country into debt that's been done on a 
massive scale in the last 6 years, that no political leadership in the 
history of this country has gone there, we are transferring more and 
more of our assets to foreign-held powers. We transferred over $700 
billion in the form of interest payments overseas just in the last 72 
months.
  They talk about, well, we don't have to pay for this because we 
didn't intend it. Somebody's going to pay for it. There's no free 
lunch. People have been looking for a free lunch since the dawn of 
civilization. It does not exist, and I would contend that if we are 
going to keep our moral authority to govern as stewards of this 
country, then the time and place where we are now, elected to public 
office, if we do not reverse this and start paying our bills, we will 
undermine, I believe, that and we'll also undermine this country.
  I think this is a defining moment for us, and we're going to fight. 
Davy Crockett was from my district. We're going to make this an Alamo-
type situation around this issue because this is a critical tool of 
this Congress and the American people in order to act financially and 
responsibly.
  I can't thank the Blue Dogs enough for their devotion to this idea of 
we're going to leave this place better than when we found it, and 
that's what this is all about.
  Mr. ROSS. Madam Speaker, I want to thank the gentleman from 
Tennessee, a founder of the Blue Dog Coalition, John Tanner, for 
joining us this evening for this Special Order.
  Madam Speaker, there's 47 of us in the fiscally conservative 
Democratic Blue Dog Coalition. The Blue Dog Coalition is just another 
name for fiscally conservative Democrats, and one of our newest members 
who has joined us for the 110th session of Congress, and we're just 
delighted to have her, is our friend Kirsten Gillibrand from New York's 
20th district.
  Mrs. GILLIBRAND. Madam Speaker, I thank Congressman Ross.
  For the sake of our children's future, I'm strongly urging the Senate 
to ensure that the AMT patch that we're going to be considering this 
week complies with the PAYGO rules. The House has already passed a 
responsible AMT bill, which will prevent 23 million taxpayers from 
being hit by the AMT, while also finding appropriate offsets so that 
the national debt will not be increased.
  I have introduced a resolution, H.J. Res. 45, which is a balanced 
budget amendment to the United States Constitution. If my constituents 
in upstate New York have to balance their checkbook every month, so 
should the Federal Government.
  The AMT affected 4.2 million Americans last year. If Congress does 
not act, it will affect 23 million Americans this year, most of them 
middle-class families.
  In my district, 66,000 families will be affected if this bill is not 
passed. Almost half of the 23 million taxpayers that will be affected 
are married with children. The average AMT taxpayer will owe over 
$6,000 in additional taxes. Small business owners are going to be one 
of the hardest hit by the AMT.
  The reason why we have to pay for this and ensure we follow pay-as-
you-go standards is because America's debt is over $9 trillion. Our 
Federal debt increases by $1.4 billion a day, at an astonishing rate of 
$1 million a minute. Our national debt is equal to over $30,000 for 
every man, woman and child and infant in this country.
  The Federal Government spent over $400 billion last year on interest 
payments on the national debt. After Social Security, Medicare and 
defense spending, interest payments on the debt are the third largest 
expenditure by the Federal Government. The amount of money that we 
spend on interest payments will decrease the amount of money America 
will have in the future for spending on our national priorities such as 
health care, education, energy independence, our troops.
  Lowering the debt is essential not only for our economic security, 
but it is essential for our national security. Foreign governments and 
investors now hold $2.2 trillion, which is 44 percent of all publicly 
held U.S. debt. That's up nearly 10 percent from last year. China owns 
the second-most amount of our debt, and oil exporting countries such as 
Saudi Arabia account for the fourth-most held U.S. debt.
  Paying for AMT is possible. The House has already passed in a 
bipartisan way a PAYGO-compliant bill. For future generations, we must 
be responsible and not add to the national debt.
  Just to give folks at home an understanding of what this money means, 
let me just give you a couple of translations. This year we paid $239 
billion in interest on the national debt. That same amount of money, if 
we use it for other purposes, would literally pay for every U.S. 
family's refrigerator to be stocked for 7 months. It would pay for 
filling every U.S. family's gas tank for 10 months at today's gas 
prices. It would pay for providing 4 years of in-state public tuition 
for 10 million students, and it would pay 1 year's salary for 8 million 
new teachers.
  The Federal Government has sent over $709 billion abroad in the form 
of interest payments since President

[[Page 33726]]

Bush took office, $155 billion in 2007 alone. The same amount would 
fund any of the following: 12,000 new elementary schools, 7,000 new 
veterans clinics, and all road and bridge construction and improvements 
for the next 10 years.
  I beseech the Senate to follow a fiscal, responsible and prudent 
course of action and pay for the AMT.
  Mr. ROSS. Madam Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman from New York. For 
those just joining us, to set the stage, Madam Speaker, the Senate, we 
sent the Senate an AMT fix, alternative minimum tax fix, to ensure 
people didn't get hit with this unfair tax, and we paid for it. They 
sent it back to us without being paid for. Instead, they want to borrow 
$50 billion from China, and that's what got 47 members of the fiscally 
conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition worked up, and for a good 
reason.
  I'm pleased to be joined by a fellow Blue Dog member from 
California's 20th Congressional District, my friend Jim Costa.
  Mr. COSTA. Madam Speaker, I rise this evening to discuss the 
importance of this pay-as-you-go system that my colleague from 
Arkansas, Congressman Ross, and my other colleagues have spoken on thus 
far.
  What you're going to hear this evening across the breadth and width 
of Representatives from throughout the country is a common and 
reoccurring theme, and that is, as Blue Dogs, we believe that putting 
our fiscal House in order is among the highest of priorities that we 
are sent here back to Washington to do. And so, therefore, it is a very 
important discussion that we are having with you this evening, as many 
Americans sit at their home having dinner and wondering just really 
what's going on in Washington.
  What's going on is really trying to draw a line in the sand. Are we 
about trying to establish and stay with fiscal responsibility or not?
  Now, PAYGO is a tool, as was mentioned, to try to ensure that any 
additional expenditures of our Federal budget be paid for. That's not 
the only tool, but it is one of the few tools that we now have in 
place. Certainly as Blue Dog members, we are looking and trying to 
figure out how we can do other efforts to focus on budget cutting and 
reestablishing our priorities. But right now pay-as-you-go is the most 
important tool that we have available to us.
  Now, let me give you a little history of how all this took place. In 
1990, when the Budget Enforcement Act was passed, there was an attempt 
to reign in deficits that had occurred for over 30 years, Federal 
deficits that had been experienced since 1970. This Act, passed by a 
Democratic Congress in 1990 and signed by a Republican President, 
President George Bush the First, sought to control the budgetary impact 
of legislation through the enforcement of the provisions that we now 
refer to as pay-as-you-go.
  Now, that was law and that was enforced for 10 years, about. Then in 
2001, with a new Republican majority in Congress, our current 
President, President George Bush the Second, abandoned the PAYGO 
provisions.

                              {time}  2000

  And that, I think, among other factors took our projected budget 
surplus, then at $5.6 trillion over a 10-year period, and created the 
current budget deficit that we have today, which is over $2 trillion 
over that same time period. Yes, I think it's disappointing for all 
Americans that a sensible tax policy, an investment in smart growth in 
our country that was achieved between 1990 and 2001 on a bipartisan 
basis, has been squandered in the last 6 years to the large 
unsustainable deficit that we have today.
  Now, where are we? Well, at the beginning of this year, the new 
Democratic majority returned to Congress a path of fiscal 
responsibility. As Congressman Ross and others mentioned, PAYGO was one 
of the first provisions we enacted. Under these rules we have in every 
piece of legislation that we have acted on this year enforced the PAYGO 
principle. This promise we made to the American people we intend to 
keep true to our word. We have already made great strides in bringing 
our fiscal house in order; but if we want to continue that, we must 
include this with all legislation, which includes the alternative 
minimum tax. It needs to comply with PAYGO.
  Currently, our national debt is over $9 trillion, with much of it 
being held by foreign governments. In 2007, China alone had increased 
the holdings of U.S. Treasury securities by nearly 500 percent in the 
last 6 years, from $74 billion in July, 2001, to $408 billion in July 
of this year. Overall, and it has been said before, this administration 
has borrowed more money from foreign sources throughout the world than 
the previous 42 Presidents combined. Let me repeat that: overall, this 
administration has borrowed more money from foreign sources than all 
the previous 42 Presidents combined.
  As a proud member of the Blue Dog Caucus, I strongly believe that 
fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets are essential to make our 
economy and our country strong and prosperous. Government should not be 
allowed to spend more than it takes in. Common sense tells us that. Any 
strategy of our Nation's budget must include a strategy for reducing 
these record deficits so that we don't pass them on to our children. 
Without adequate controls, prolonged deficit spending will weaken our 
ability to fund worthwhile domestic spending programs and jeopardize 
our national security. That's at the heart of this discussion.
  I further believe that it's fiscally and morally irresponsible, 
therefore, to place the burden of today's deficit on our children and 
grandchildren. And that's why PAYGO is so important, that we draw the 
line and make this fight this week.
  The alternative minimum tax is important. We passed that relief on 
that over a week ago. But it's not worth borrowing from China to pay 
for the alternative minimum tax. We can do this in a commonsense way, 
and that's what the Blue Dogs are asking you to support our efforts in.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from California for joining us.
  And, Madam Speaker, this is a Special Order hosted by the fiscally 
conservative Democratic Blue Dog Coalition. And at this time, as we 
discuss this PAYGO and AMT issue deeper and further and put it in 
context, I'd like to call on a former co-Chair of the Blue Dog 
Coalition, Baron Hill from Indiana.
  Mr. HILL. I thank the gentleman for yielding to me.
  Madam Speaker, we have a lot of Blue Dogs here this evening to talk 
about this issue because Blue Dogs feel very passionate about PAYGO 
rules and our national debt. The national debt exceeds over $9 
trillion. One of the largest expenditures in our Nation's budget, 
second or third only to military spending, is the interest that we pay 
on that national debt.
  Now, we are at a critical time because now we are at a stage of the 
legislative process where the rubber meets the road. As has already 
been mentioned here, there is a large issue looming next year for 
millions of Americans, and that issue is the alternative minimum tax. 
The alternative minimum tax was passed many years ago with the idea 
that only the wealthy who didn't pay any income taxes ought not to have 
that advantage, and so the alternative minimum tax was put in place. 
Little did we know when it was passed many years ago that we would 
advance up to 2007, which is the present time, and we would find that 
next year when people have to pay their income taxes, they will learn 
that many middle-class Americans will have to pay this tax as well.
  So not only the wealthy will have to pay the alternative minimum tax 
but also many millions of middle-class people will have to pay the AMT. 
We need to fix that. And the Blue Dogs are committed to making sure 
that we provide tax relief for those millions of middle-class Americans 
who are going to be hit with this tax next year.
  But this is where the rubber meets the road, because by giving 
millions of middle-class Americans tax relief, it's going to cost more 
than $50 billion. We have got to figure out a way to pay for that 
because in this House, we have pay-as-you-go rules, which simply

[[Page 33727]]

means that if we are going to cut taxes or we are going to increase 
spending, we have got to figure out a way to pay for it. The many Blue 
Dogs here this evening are here passionately to make sure that we hold 
our ground because a storm is brewing here, Madam Speaker.
  By passing this new alternative minimum tax, there are those in this 
Chamber and those in the other Chamber who do not want to pay for it. 
And the Blue Dogs stand before you today in front of America to make 
sure that we have the political courage to pay for this tax relief for 
millions of Americans in this country. Because if we don't do this, 
that $9 trillion that we are already in debt increases to $10 trillion 
and $11 trillion and then $12 trillion, and it goes on and on and on 
and on.
  There are those in this body and the other who don't believe that 
this is an important enough issue and therefore we should ignore the 
PAYGO rules. That's the storm that is brewing in the next couple of 
days. And the Blue Dogs stand before the American people to say that we 
are still going to fight the battle of making sure that we restore 
fiscal discipline to this body. And that's the reason why so many 
passionate Blue Dogs are here this evening, because that storm is 
brewing. The time is ticking away. The threat of exceeding our 
expenditures over what we take in from income is at a threshold. And 
that's the reason why so many Blue Dog Democrats are here to talk about 
it this evening. And I hope the American people are listening.
  To put it in perspective and why these rules are so important to be 
in place, it's important to note that since President Bush took office, 
the gross national debt has increased by $3.427 trillion. And since 
President Bush took office, we have borrowed $1.2 trillion from foreign 
sources. We've got to stop this madness.
  Now, there are those in this body and outside this body, certain 
newspapers that consider themselves conservative newspapers like the 
Wall Street Journal, who believe that this issue is not important, that 
the Blue Dogs are wrong on this. We are not wrong on this. We have got 
to stop this madness, and we have to implement those PAYGO rules. It 
worked in the 1990s up until 2002 when we actually reversed our 
Nation's budget deficits and had surpluses. And it was because we stuck 
to the very rules that we are talking about tonight. And if we don't 
stick by these rules, then the days of deficit spending are going to 
return.
  When the Democrats took over control of Congress in last year's 
elections, we promised to implement these PAYGO rules and stop the 
madness of these huge deficits that we had in place. And now we're on 
the verge of breaking the very rules that we put in place, and that is 
the reason why the Blue Dogs stand before you this evening.
  I am proud to be a Blue Dog. I'm proud that the Blue Dogs have pushed 
this issue to restore fiscal sanity to our Nation's budget. And I think 
it's the reason why we have so many that are about to speak about it.
  I give the gentleman from Arkansas my appreciation for allowing me to 
speak on this very important issue.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. Hill) for his 
insight on this issue.
  Madam Speaker, let me make it clear that the Blue Dog Coalition wants 
to ensure that no additional taxpayers are liable for the AMT tax this 
year. Let me also make it clear that, unlike the Senate, we want a bill 
that's paid for. We don't want to simply borrow the money from China to 
fund a tax cut or to provide tax relief in this country. And that's 
what makes us different in this new Democratic majority from what we 
had in the previous Congresses under the Republican control. They have 
given us the largest debt ever, the largest deficit ever; and the time 
has come to put an end to that. And someone that understands that 
better than anyone is the Blue Dog co-Chair for policy, my friend 
Dennis Moore from Kansas.
  Mr. MOORE of Kansas. Thank you, Congressman Ross, for the time this 
evening to speak to the American people about what's happening in our 
country with our deficit, with our debt, and what we need to do to 
correct this problem for future generations in our country.
  You've heard several speakers talk tonight about the debt that our 
Nation has accumulated, $9.1 trillion. That's gone up almost $3.4 
trillion in the past 6 years since President Bush took office.
  As policy co-Chair, I had an opportunity to go with about eight other 
Democrats to the White House to meet with the President a few months 
ago. We each had 2 minutes to speak. And when it was my turn, I said, 
Mr. President, I'm a year older than you are. I had 7\1/2\ 
grandchildren at the time, eight now, and I said, Mr. President, we 
have mortgaged their future. I said, We've got to start living like 
most American families living within a budget. This should not be about 
Democrats and Republicans. We have got to be responsible. It's our 
moral duty to our kids and grandkids.
  And he looked at me and he said, You've got a point.
  Well, I know I have a point, but we need to work on this together. 
That's what we are all saying here tonight is we have mortgaged the 
future of our children and grandchildren, and that's absolutely the 
wrong thing to do.
  In the first days of this new Congress this year, Congress, at least 
the House, passed a pay-as-you-go rule and reinstated a rule that 
expired in 2002. And for several years without that rule, our deficit 
and our debt rose dramatically. That's why all of us, the 47 Blue Dog 
Democrats here, think it is so important that we reinstate that rule, 
and it has been reinstated now, but that we follow this rule and make 
sure that we don't spend more money as a Nation than we take in; that 
we live within our means like most American families do.
  You've been told by other speakers here tonight that China, Japan, 
and other foreign nations own more than $1 trillion of United States 
debt. That is a disgrace. It's something that we have got to change. We 
can't afford to let other nations make important decisions about our 
future. It's our future. It belongs to future generations in this 
country. And we have got to make sure that we are in control and not 
other nations in this world.
  And I will just stop by saying this: PAYGO sounds funny. All it is, 
is pay-as-you-go. If you have a new spending proposal, a new program 
proposal, or a tax cut, section 1 is here is my proposal and section 2 
is here's how it's paid for so it's revenue neutral, doesn't add to our 
deficit or our debt.
  Again, Madam Speaker, we need to start living like most American 
families do within a budget. It's the right thing to do for our 
country, and it's certainly the right thing to do for future 
generations in our country.
  Thank you, Congressman Ross.
  Mr. ROSS. I want to thank the gentleman from Kansas for joining us.
  Madam Speaker, in the next 35 minutes, we've got a number of Blue 
Dogs, fiscally conservative Democrats, that have taken to the floor of 
the House tonight to join me in talking about the importance of PAYGO, 
pay-as-you-go, the kind of principle that was in place in this Chamber 
when President Clinton gave us the first balanced budget of any 
Democrat or Republican in about 40 years.
  At this time I would like to call on a former co-Chair of the Blue 
Dogs from the State of Tennessee, someone that has helped lead this 
effort and who brings a lot of insight to this issue, the former co-
Chair for policy of the Blue Dogs, and that's my friend Jim Cooper from 
Tennessee.
  Mr. COOPER. I thank my friend from Arkansas for yielding, and I will 
be very brief.
  This PAYGO principle is fundamental to good government. All it means 
is that you pay as you go, you pay your bills. That's what this 
Congress should do, just as every American family knows that they 
should pay their bills. It's a fundamental principle. We cannot afford 
to let this principle lapse. It was in place from 1990 to 2002. That 
was the period of the greatest economic expansion in American history, 
under the Clinton administration.

[[Page 33728]]

  Unfortunately, the Republican majority in this House allowed PAYGO to 
lapse. But none other than Alan Greenspan, the former head of the 
Federal Reserve, has said that this is the single most important reform 
that this Congress could undertake to address fiscal discipline.
  So I support my colleagues in supporting PAYGO. We have got to make 
this principle stand. I thank the gentleman from Arkansas.
  Mr. ROSS. I want to thank the gentleman from Tennessee, former co-
Chair of the Blue Dogs, for joining us and in being a part of standing 
firm on the floor of the House of Representatives in support of PAYGO.
  Some people may say, what's this business all about? Well, the House 
passed a bill to provide tax relief for millions of people, and it was 
paid for. We sent it to the Senate and they didn't like it; so they 
sent it back unpaid for. Their idea was to borrow $50 billion from 
someplace like China to pay for it.

                              {time}  2015

  Well, we're going to send it back again, probably tomorrow, Madam 
Speaker, with another pay-for. And some people are maybe saying, ``Huh? 
So how are you going to pay for it?'' Well, it's not glamorous, but it 
makes sense to me. We're going to pay for it by closing loopholes 
allowing hedge fund managers to defer compensation in offshore 
accounts. There's no reason why the Senate shouldn't be able to join us 
in supporting that. It pays for it instead of borrowing the money from 
China and provides the tax relief that we need for middle-class working 
families all across this country.
  I would like to call on a former cochair for communications of the 
Blue Dogs, my friend from California, a member of the Rules Committee, 
very involved in this whole issue, and that's Dennis Cardoza.
  Mr. CARDOZA. I would like to thank the chairman for recognizing me 
and yielding to me. I also want to thank Mr. Ross for being such a 
leader on this issue and for being a leader on so many of the Blue Dog 
causes that he brings to the floor every week. And there is no 
question, Mr. Ross, that there is no issue that's more important to the 
Blue Dogs than this issue of PAYGO.
  Madam Speaker, passing PAYGO rules at the beginning of the 110th 
Congress fulfilled an absolute pledge to the American people that this 
new Congress was going to spend taxpayers' dollars and money 
responsibly and without continuing to run up the deficit. It was a very 
important initial step when we passed the House rules this year. 
Waiving this rule now would break that pledge to pay for the 
alternative minimum tax and would be a rollback in what we've committed 
to do for the American people. And I believe that breaking the PAYGO 
rules would return us to the disastrous fiscal policies of the past 
Congresses under the Republican administration of this House and would 
be a terrible mistake.
  After allowing the PAYGO rules to expire, the Republicans enacted 
legislation increasing the national debt by nearly $1.4 trillion over 6 
years. Twenty-one percent of all individual income taxes of the year 
2008 will go towards paying the interest on the national debt. They 
won't help cure a sick child, they won't help educate one of our bright 
young people in this country, your tax dollars, 21 percent of which 
will go strictly to pay interest on the $9 trillion that have been run 
up in the national debt.
  This ``debt tax,'' as we call it, is a direct consequence of the 
reckless fiscal policies that have happened, for the most part, over 
the last 6 years. The President and the Republican majority have put us 
on a fiscally unsustainable path, and the Blue Dogs are unwilling to 
pass this undue burden onto future generations of Americans.
  The Blue Dogs demanded a new rule, as we talked about earlier, that 
put PAYGO back into place. And when we took over the Congress, the 
Democrats restored the PAYGO rules to ensure that the government spends 
within its means, just like American families have to do.
  In complying with the PAYGO rules, this House has overwhelmingly 
relied on spending cuts to offset increases in higher priority 
programs. Over 80 percent of the increases in spending for priority 
programs passed by this House have been offset by cuts in lower 
priority or wasteful spending programs.
  The Blue Dogs are committed to addressing this country's long-term 
fiscal challenges, and that is why we have insisted that PAYGO rules be 
applied to all mandatory spending increases.
  This Democratic Congress has made great strides to get our fiscal 
house back in order. If we want to continue down this path towards 
fiscal sanity, we must ensure that every piece of legislation we 
consider, including the AMT bill that we're going to be considering 
this week, comply with the PAYGO rules.
  Mr. Chairman, again, I very much appreciate your leadership, and I 
thank you for recognizing me and yielding me time.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from California, who has contributed 
greatly as the former cochair of the Blue Dogs and now a member of the 
Rules Committee.
  The reason all of this is so important is because of this: Today, the 
U.S. national debt, $9,169,206,830,867, you divide that by every man, 
woman and child in America, and your share, Madam Speaker, is $30,205.
  Since President Bush took office, the gross national debt has 
increased by nearly $3.5 trillion, $3.427 trillion. That's $41.54 
billion per month. That's $9.57 billion per week. That's $1.37 billion 
per day. That's $56.93 million per hour. That's $948,907 per minute. 
And that's $15,815 per second. Any way you divide it out, Madam 
Speaker, for a country boy from south Arkansas, that's a whole lot of 
money. And this group, the Blue Dogs, fiscally conservative Democrats, 
are trying to restore common sense, accountability, and fiscal 
discipline to our national government. And right in the middle of it 
all is my friend from Louisiana, a fellow Blue Dog member, Charlie 
Melancon.
  Mr. MELANCON. I want to thank you, Congressman Ross, for reserving 
this time. And I would like to thank the leadership, Madam Speaker, for 
taking the initiative to reinstate the PAYGO rules.
  As has been stated previously by my counterparts, my colleagues and 
the Blue Dogs, this is one element of government that we need to adhere 
to. It's shameful that the government hasn't been doing this all along. 
As stated earlier, we have a debt that far exceeds all 42 previous 
administrations collectively. That does not bode well for this country.
  We were a strong Nation prior to World War II. We have been a strong 
Nation for centuries. But as you look at the devaluation of the dollar, 
the fact that China controls a large portion of our debt, that they, at 
one point in time last January, considered selling off some of their 
treasury notes, but were fearful that they may devalue the American 
dollar, thus lowering their value of their investments, that tells you 
something. And now that the dollar is sliding, China is reconsidering 
that.
  And where does that put us? That puts us really in a trick bag. We 
are facing a comparative value of dollars, or currencies. Canada has 
passed us up. The Euro is far and away. The British pound is far 
exceeding the value that the average American can even afford to think 
about going to Europe to visit.
  You know, I grew up in south Louisiana in a conservative household, 
in a conservative community for that matter, but one of the things that 
we were taught by our parents in our household was if you don't have 
it, you can't spend it. And even if you get a credit card, you've still 
got to pay for it someday. And that's basically what the Blue Dogs are 
about, trying to bring some fiscal responsibility to our government. 
Regardless of what party you're in, this is about our future.
  Now, up until recently I was not a grandfather, but now I am. Before, 
when I ran for the Congress in my late fifties, I wasn't running for 
the Congress as a career, I wasn't running for the Congress to make a 
career later, I was coming to the Congress that the

[[Page 33729]]

people so decided to try and help right this government and do what's 
right by the people of this country. The frustration is that you can't 
have it both ways. And the both ways is you can't help the people back 
home that need the help, whether it's building schools, whether it's 
building, in our case, levees, building highways and roads and bridges, 
educating the kids, doing cancer research. These things cost money. And 
without the involvement of our government, we wouldn't be the most 
advanced country that we are today. But we're moving down a slippery 
slope. We have spent ourselves into a debt that is estimated to be in 
excess of $9 trillion, $30,000 plus for every man, woman and child. So, 
that means my two kids and their spouses and my grandson have a debt 
that will take them quite a bit of time if they were to decide, well, I 
want to pay my share, take them quite a bit of their lifetime to put 
that money aside. And that money that they would put aside would be 
better served to educate my grandson, for them to build a house when 
the time comes, for them to be able to afford to do things, to live a 
quality of life that all Americans would love to and expect to have.
  Madam Speaker, I stand here today with my colleagues, the Blue Dogs, 
and worry about the people of this country. That's what we were sent 
here to do, worry about their welfare, worry about their well-being, 
and to take action that illustrates that we do care about them and this 
country. And by not adhering to the PAYGO rule, by not finding the pay-
fors in these pieces of legislation, we endanger the future of all 
citizens of this country.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from Louisiana. And as our friend 
John Tanner from Tennessee has said so eloquently, this administration, 
this President has borrowed more money from foreigners than the 
previous 42 Presidents combined.
  Since President Bush took office, our Nation has borrowed $1.23 
trillion from foreign sources. That's a big number. Let's break it 
down. That's $15.45 billion per month. That's $3.54 billion per week. 
That's $505.6 million per day. That's $21.07 million per hour. That's 
$351,113 per minute. And that's $5,852 per second.
  So, Madam Speaker, that's why we're here. We want to restore common 
sense and fiscal discipline to our national government. We want to put 
an end to this reckless spending and this debt and this deficit, and to 
help us do that is my friend from Ohio, new member of the Blue Dogs, 
serving his first term in the 110th session of Congress, Zack Space 
from Ohio's 18th congressional district.
  Mr. SPACE. I thank my friend from Arkansas.
  Madam Speaker, I am honored to be a part of this group that places 
such a high priority on fiscal responsibility, the Blue Dogs.
  I really believe that we live in a crossroads of history and that 
there are several seminal issues of our day that in and of themselves 
would be considered the seminal issue of virtually any other era, 
whether you're talking about the war in Iraq, the war on terror, the 
challenges posed by globalization, the challenges facing our 
environment, all very important issues, and indeed, seminal. But yet 
another seminal issue, one which is much more insidious and not so 
readily identifiable, but nonetheless serious, is that posed by our 
national debt. $9.17 trillion, a number that by any account is 
virtually incomprehensible; $236 billion a year being paid in interest 
on that debt. I have not done the math, but I suspect that if you broke 
that down for every one of the 435 congressional districts in our 
country, you would find that each Member of Congress, each 
congressional district could use several hundred million dollars a year 
from that figure to build roads, repair bridges, cure diseases, educate 
children and do the kinds of things that make us a strong Nation.
  This debt is sapping us of vital resources, and it is, in the words 
of my colleague earlier today, the gentleman from Tennessee, one of our 
leaders, John Tanner, making us a weaker Nation.
  PAYGO, a simple concept, one that, again, my colleague from Tennessee 
referenced as something we expect of our government in the same way 
that we expect it from our families, live within our means. The 
alternative minimum tax is poised to draw in 23 million Americans who 
were never intended to be the victims of that tax. We need to fix it. 
We must fix it. This House has voted to fix it in a fiscally 
responsible way, in a way that is paid for.
  Now, the Blue Dogs stand for the proposition that we stand behind 
that and that we don't irresponsibly fix the tax, we do it in a 
responsible fashion. Back home in Ohio's 18th District, in towns like 
Chillicothe and Zanesville and New Philadelphia, Ohio, we can't 
understand what $9.1 trillion is. I certainly don't get it. It's 
incomprehensible. But we do understand the need, the pressing need of 
this Nation to once again engage in fiscal responsibility, acting in a 
way that we expect our citizens to act.
  And with that, I am very proud to be a member of this organization 
and will continue to stand behind that basic and fundamental principle 
of fiscal responsibility.

                              {time}  2030

  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from Ohio for his insight.
  Madam Speaker, at this time, I would like to yield to the gentleman 
from Indiana, Brad Ellsworth, from Indiana's Eighth Congressional 
District. A new member of the Blue Dogs in the 110th session of 
Congress, Brad Ellsworth.
  Mr. ELLSWORTH. I appreciate the gentleman from Arkansas recognizing 
me, Madam Speaker.
  It is an honor to follow my good friend from Ohio in his eloquent 
words about what we are here to talk about tonight. When I ran for 
Congress, the good people of the Eighth District of Indiana sent me and 
gave a message. I heard that message loud and clear, that they wanted 
me to come, if they would hire me to come and do my part to get the 
House's fiscal orders back in shape.
  When I came to Congress a year ago in January, I started looking for 
people that thought the same way I did, that pay-as-you-go was just a 
natural thing. And I found a group called the Blue Dogs. Now, I have 
got to admit I didn't know what a Blue Dog was. And I would venture to 
guess that most of the people in Indiana didn't know what a Blue Dog 
was. But I know now. And it is a group that I am proud to associate 
myself with.
  I have got to tell you, Madam Speaker, that the folks back in the 
Eighth District in Indiana in Terre Haute, Greencastle, and Evansville 
probably feel like they are being choked blue now. That is how the Blue 
Dogs got their name. They were being choked blue. And the people of our 
country are being choked blue by our constant running up the debt and 
deficit in this country.
  One thing I learned as a little kid growing up in school was you say 
what you are going to do, and then you do what you say you are going to 
do. And that includes everybody in this House, the 435 Members. People 
like to complain about their taxes. They like to complain about this 
debt, and they have a right to. But what they do know is they expect 
government services, and they expect us to spend their money wisely. 
And so they know that when they want to drive on our Federal highways, 
and they know that when they call, they want our homeland protected by 
border security. So when they hear about government contracts gone bad, 
military spending, that waste, fraud and abuse accounts up to $88 
billion in a few investigations, they get a little weary of that, and 
so do I.
  We can't run this House like this. We wouldn't run our personal homes 
like this, we wouldn't run a personal business like this, and we can't 
run the people's House like this. We have done some good in this House. 
We passed the PAYGO legislation, one of the first things we did in the 
first week of this 110th Congress. We have cut earmarks in half. We 
have closed tax loopholes. But it is not enough.
  Congressman Ross, the poster you show when you speak has gone up 
since

[[Page 33730]]

I came into this office and displayed my poster. It was $29,000 per 
person for every man, woman and child in this country when we started, 
and now it is 30, even though we have done some good. So we can't relax 
now until we start chipping away piece by piece, chunk by chunk and 
bring that back down so that we are not strapping every man, woman and 
child in this country with now a $30,000 debt.
  It is imperative that we continue to observe the PAYGO rules of this 
House. And when and only when we do that will we see this number start 
going in the reverse and get our affairs back in order.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from Indiana. Madam Speaker, if you 
have any questions, comments or concerns you can e-mail us, Madam 
Speaker, at [email protected].
  The gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Space) was saying that he didn't have 
his calculator with him, but he knew it was a lot of interest that had 
been paid. This year we have paid $239 billion in interest on the 
national debt. That is close to $1 billion a day, without a calculator. 
But with a calculator, and to put it in perspective, the same amount we 
would pay for any of the following, stocking every family in America's 
refrigerator for 7 months, filling every U.S. gas tank, and that is not 
easy to do this these days, for 10 months, filling every American's gas 
tank for 10 months at today's gas prices, providing 4 years of in-state 
public tuition for 10.2 million students. I have a daughter in college 
now. I can appreciate that one. Paying 1 year of salary for 8 million 
new teachers. We could do any one of those things, Madam Speaker, with 
the amount of interest we have paid on the national debt this year.
  The whole point here, Madam Speaker, is we will continue, this 
demonstrates it right here, the reds, the amounts we are spending on 
interest, the light blue, or the turquoise as we would say back home, 
is the amount we are spending on education. The dark green is how much 
we are spending on veterans. And the purple is how much we are spending 
on homeland security.
  America's priorities, Madam Speaker, are out of whack. And they are 
going to remain out of whack until we get our fiscal house in order. 
And no one understands this better than the leader of the Blue Dogs, 
the administrative co-Chair for the Blue Dogs who spends a lot of time 
on these issues, and I can't thank him enough for being here and 
waiting patiently all night and letting all our fellow Blue Dog members 
go, we have had a dozen tonight, that is a lot, to come to the floor of 
the House tonight to talk about these issues. We have about 10 minutes 
left. The gentleman from Florida, Allen Boyd, can have as much of it as 
he wants.
  Mr. BOYD of Florida. I thank my friend, Madam Speaker, for yielding, 
and it is a great privilege to join my Blue Dog colleagues here on the 
House floor to talk about these issues that are of such great import to 
the American people and to the children of America today, because they 
are the ones who will be, in the end, mostly affected by these policies 
that we are having great debates about today.
  Now, my fellow Blue Dog colleagues have spoken very eloquently and 
succinctly about PAYGO, what it is, how it got started, how it works, 
and the importance of it. Just in brief summary, I will remind our 
viewers that PAYGO was a principle that was first put in place in 1990 
by then-President George H.W. Bush, commonly referred to around these 
parts of the country as Bush 41.
  With a Democratic Congress and Republican administration, they began 
to realize the misguided policy of deficits, large annual deficits, so 
they did something about it. After the election in 1992, when President 
Clinton became President, and then in 1994, the Republican revolution 
where you had a Democratic President and Republican-led Congress, in 
1997, those principles of PAYGO were continued in the Balanced Budget 
Act of 1997.
  In 1999, we saw for the first time in 30 years a balanced budget. And 
we could see surpluses, Madam Speaker, as far as the eye could see. It 
looked great for America at that point in time. We had money to deal 
with national security. We had money to fix the problems that we know 
exist in Medicare and Social Security, the long-term problems, which 
are so important. Those two programs are so important to the future of 
this country.
  What happened? In 2001, we got a new President, President George W. 
Bush, commonly known in these circles as Bush 43. And this 
administration, along with the Congress back then, decided that PAYGO 
wasn't a good idea because they couldn't do the policies of their tax 
cuts they wanted, as much as they wanted to do and live within those 
rules of PAYGO, so they abandoned the PAYGO rule, the PAYGO principle.
  As a result, from 2000 to today, 2007, you have had a swing of 
several trillion dollars in terms of the surpluses versus the deficit. 
So we are in a bad situation. We are in a bad situation; and during the 
campaigns last year, people running for the House and the Senate across 
this country campaigned on this issue, that we had to restore fiscal 
responsibility to our government. You heard from four members of the 
Blue Dog, freshmen members, who are brand-new here tonight. This is 
their first term as Members of Congress. They campaigned on this issue. 
They understand it. They understand the importance of it. Their 
constituents back home do.
  Madam Speaker, our Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, our majority leader, Steny 
Hoyer, our Ways and Means chairman, Charlie Rangel, and our budget 
chairman, John Spratt, and other Democratic leaders, in addition to the 
Blue Dogs, vowed to put an end to the reckless fiscal policy that has 
existed in our government for the last 6 years. And under the 
leadership of Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Hoyer, and with the 
help of the Blue Dogs, we put in place this PAYGO principle on the very 
first day when this new Congress took power in early January of this 
year.
  That is what the American people wanted us to do. They wanted us to 
stop acting foolishly when it comes to fiscal management. We are like a 
board of directors, Madam Speaker, of a major corporation. It is our 
job to manage the resources, the fiscal financial resources, of this 
country in a prudent way for our stockholders, who are our people back 
home.
  And we said we have to stop spending more than we take in. There are 
lots of tools that you can use, as has been said here earlier, but the 
one that we have in place right now, the one that we have been able to 
get in place, given the current political environment, is this PAYGO 
rule, and we need to abide by it. We don't need to abandon it.
  Congress without those tools in place has not exhibited the 
willpower, if you will, to make tough choices when it comes to spending 
or tax cuts. So that is why it is important that we have tools like 
PAYGO. If you don't have the ability, the will or the backbone to make 
choices about how we responsibly spend the taxpayers' money, then what 
are we doing here? This Congress, under the leadership, under the 
Democratic leadership of Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer has shown that it 
has the ability and the will and the backbone to be good stewards of 
the taxpayers' tax dollars that they send here for us to spend. Every 
single bill, Madam Speaker, that is passed by the House this year has 
complied with PAYGO rules. Whether it was the farm bill, SCHIP 
reauthorization, or AMT relief, every bill has complied with the PAYGO 
rules. And do you know what, Madam Speaker? Seventy-five percent of the 
pay-fors have been spending cuts and not revenue raisers.
  Sadly, very sadly, the Senate last week failed in their duties as 
leaders of this country and as responsible stewards of our taxpayer 
dollars when they passed an AMT bill that was not paid for. The Senate 
was held hostage by the Republican caucus in the Senate and they 
blocked a House AMT bill that was paid for from even being heard on the 
Senate floor.
  The Blue Dogs, Madam Speaker, and the House leadership are standing 
behind PAYGO for one simple reason: it is the right thing to do. It may 
not be

[[Page 33731]]

the easy thing to do or the politically easy thing to do, but, Madam 
Speaker, I didn't take this job because I thought it was going to be 
easy. I took this job to do right by the people of the Second 
Congressional District of Florida and the American people.
  The House of Representatives will again pass an AMT bill this week 
that is paid for. It is possible to do it. The Senate will have another 
opportunity to do what is right and responsible. And I strongly urge 
the Senate to have the gumption and the will and the good sense to keep 
the promise they made to the American people to be good stewards of the 
taxpayers' dollars and pass an AMT bill that does not violate the PAYGO 
rules and that is paid for.

                              {time}  2045

  Again, I want to thank my fellow cochair, Mike Ross from Arkansas, 
for his steady leadership on this issue and so many others, but also 
steady leadership in forming these Tuesday night Special Orders, in 
which we have had a chance to come talk to the American people about 
issues of much importance.
  Mr. ROSS. I thank the gentleman from Florida, the administrative 
cochair of the Blue Dogs, Mr. Allen Boyd from Florida's Second 
Congressional District, for being a part of this Special Order this 
evening, as he is so many Tuesday evenings.
  What we are talking about here, Madam Speaker, is the Republican 
Congress, the Republican administration, after having a balanced budget 
under President Clinton for the first time in 40 years, gave us the 
largest debt ever in our Nation's history, largest deficit ever in our 
Nation's history, and there has been a lot of talk about all this.
  Mr. Tanner was talking earlier about how this administration has 
borrowed more money from foreigners than the previous 42 Presidents 
combined. That has to be paid back with interest. And to put it in 
perspective, the Federal Government has sent $709 billion abroad in the 
form of interest payments since President Bush took office, and $155 
billion in 2007 alone. The same amount would fund any of the following: 
The amount of money this administration has sent to foreigners to pay 
interest on the debt that we have borrowed from them to fund tax cuts 
in this country for folks earning over $400,000 a year. With the 
interest paid on this debt, this foreign debt, the amount of your tax 
money, Madam Speaker, that we have sent overseas, with that amount of 
money, we could have built 12,000 new elementary schools, 7,000 new 
veterans clinics, and I might remind you, Madam Speaker, we have a new 
generation of veterans coming home from Afghanistan and Iraq. And get 
this: We could have funded all road and bridge construction and 
improvements for 10 years.
  It's about priorities, and it's time this Nation got its priorities 
in order. It's time we got our fiscal house in order. Make no mistake 
about it, Madam Speaker, for the second time this week we are going to 
send to the Senate an AMT fix that ensures that no, not one, additional 
taxpayer is liable for the AMT tax. Not one. Madam Speaker, we are 
paying for it, and as conservative Democrats we are reaching across the 
aisle and we are begging, we are begging Republicans to join us in 
doing the right thing and fixing this the right way.

                          ____________________