[Congressional Record (Bound Edition), Volume 151 (2005), Part 9]
[House]
[Pages 11959-11963]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]




                    UNITED AIRLINES PENSION COLLAPSE

  The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under the Speaker's announced policy of 
January 4, 2005, the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller) is 
recognized for 60 minutes as the designee of the minority leader.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, last night the 
gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) and I myself read into the 
Record statements that we have received from the employees and the 
retirees of United Airlines who were worried to death about the fact 
that their pensions are going to be severely cut as a result of 
United's decision to terminate their employee pension plans as part of 
its bankruptcy proceedings.
  Tonight, we would like to again read many of the e-mails that we have 
received from these retirees and these employees outlining what the 
real human toll is of the actions of United Airlines and the inactions 
of this Congress to deal with this growing crisis in the American 
pension plans for workers.
  As the Members will later hear, Mr. Speaker, some of these 2,000 
people who responded to the first ever congressional E-hearing by my 
Democratic colleagues on the Committee on Education and the Workforce, 
through their ingenuity, we were able to extend an opportunity to these 
individuals to be heard because there was no forum in this Congress for 
them to be heard. There was no forum that said that the average people 
who are being impacted by this policy will be heard. So we came up with 
the idea of having a congressional on-line E-hearing where the retirees 
and the employees of United

[[Page 11960]]

Airlines could express directly to the Congress the concerns that these 
changes have made to them. I think these average Americans are 
beginning to notice and beginning to articulate the fact that this 
Congress has not dealt with these concerns, with the concerns that 
affect their daily lives.
  So, Mr. Speaker, I would like to read an e-mail from Fred P. Euler 
from Santa Barbara, California. He writes to us in the e-mail: ``As a 
retired United Airlines pilot, I need your help to stop United Airlines 
from dumping our pension plan in the lap of the Pension Benefit 
Guarantee Corporation and possibly the taxpayers. The Retiree Pilot 
Pension Plan is adequately funded and should be paid by United 
Airlines, not the PBGC. The amount that the PBGC will pay out will have 
a devastating impact on thousands of retired pilots who devoted their 
careers to United Airlines and are now shocked, saddened and angry 
about the callous disregard displayed by United Airlines and the PBGC 
if it succeeds in seizing our pension plan. I am 69 years old with 32 
years of service. It is estimated that my monthly loss will be about 
$2,000, which is over 30 percent of my pension.''
  Jeanne Miller of Murrieta, California, writes: ``I am writing this in 
the hope it might save the termination of United Airlines pension plans 
. . . I worked as a dedicated flight attendant for over 33 years. I am 
a single mom with one child who has graduated from college, we are both 
still paying tuition, and a son who is in his first year of college. I 
retired reluctantly in June, 2003. United offered a deal to those 
flight attendants willing to retire early that was hard to resist: good 
medical benefits and a pension that was enough to support me and my 
son . . . Now they are threatening to take all of that away.'' Under 
the previous plan, she ``would have been able to be the caregiver for 
both of my parents, who are disabled and unable to live by themselves 
without care.
  ``If United turns over our pension to the PBGC, it will create a 
tremendous hardship.''
  John Givens of Redondo Beach, California: ``I was a 36\1/2\-year 
employee who was forced into retirement when United closed my 
reservation office in Long Beach, California. My retirement was good 
enough that my wife, who is disabled, and I thought we could make it. 
We have raised seven children, two who are still in college. They work 
part time but will have to drop out because I will no longer be able to 
help them. I will lose approximately 55 percent of my pension due to 
the rules.''
  Mr. Speaker, these are e-mails from United retirees and United 
employees who now see their economic future deeply clouded, deeply 
threatened by these actions by United. They see the fact that they 
worked hard for 30 years, for 33 years, for 36 years. There is no way 
now that they have retired where they can go and accumulate the 
necessary resources to have the retirement that they carefully planned 
for by their hard work on behalf of United Airlines. These are the 
people who are crying out for help before their retirement nest eggs 
are destroyed by the United Airlines.
  The gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) and I have introduced 
legislation to put a 6-month moratorium to see whether or not the 
pilots, the machinists, and the others can negotiate with United to try 
to protect these individuals' retirement.
  Mr. Speaker, the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) joined me 
last night, and I yield to her tonight for her comments and for the 
letters that she has received through this e-mail hearing.
  Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman from California 
(Mr. George Miller) for yielding to me.
  I want to express my appreciation for all that he has done to draw 
attention to the plight of United employees and how what has been 
happening with them really reflects the larger looming pension crisis 
in our country. He has repeatedly called on Congress to protect defined 
benefit plans and to ensure that the rank and file workers have the 
same retirement security that executives with golden parachutes do. As 
he frequently says, ``What is good for the captain is good for the 
sailor.'' I thank him for his leadership and his fight for workers, and 
I really appreciate working with him on this important issue.
  As he knows, United Airlines, like so many other corporations, has 
exploited loopholes in the law to disguise the true financial standing 
of its pension funds. The company knowingly underfunded its pensions 
and hid the truth from its workers about their retirement security, all 
quite legally. The nearly $10 billion shortfall at United was only 
revealed when the company asked the bankruptcy court to terminate its 
pension plans and now the employees are the ones that are going to have 
to pay the price. These dedicated employees have had the rug swept out 
from under them, and their retirement security is in serious question 
through no fault of their own.
  United employees have tried to be responsible. They have tried to 
plan ahead. When they signed up for their jobs they believed they were 
making informed financial decisions for today and for their retirement. 
United offered luring packages of benefits, included defined benefit 
pensions, meaning employees were guaranteed a set figure for their 
retirement when their years of work for United Airlines were done, 
years down the road.
  Now, because United is using the bankruptcy court to back out of its 
pension agreements, United employees and retirees are being tossed into 
retirement without a parachute. Tens of thousands of the flight 
attendants and machinists that are affected are in Illinois, 10,000 of 
them. It seems now that the only ones who are making honestly informed 
decisions about what they were getting into were the executives like 
Chairman Glenn Tilton, who squirreled away his $4.5 million retirement 
fund in a trust that cannot be touched during bankruptcy proceedings. 
He made sure to protect his retirement package because he, like his 
employees, knows exactly how important planning ahead is.
  I would like to share a few stories from United employees in Illinois 
who, because they were being fiscally responsible, know exactly how 
losing their pensions will affect them. These are letters that came 
through the E-hearing, the on-line hearing that the gentleman and his 
committee held.

                              {time}  2045

  This is the story of Michael Moore from Crystal Lake, Illinois. It is 
the other Michael Moore. He writes: ``I hope you have some time to hear 
from a small voice and on a quiet street in Illinois. I am a 54-year-
old maintenance mechanic for United Airlines. Having 25 years for the 
company in today's world is a trick in itself. My wife and I have 
raised our four children and they are out building a life of their own. 
You work, you plan and you save for this point in your life, only to 
have lost it all. I have only 4 months until I was planning to retire 
and now I can't. I have lost $60,000 in the United Airlines employee 
stock option plan back in 2001, gave up a total 23 percent wages in the 
last few years, sold my home and now will lose my pension and health 
care. What is next?
  ``There has to be a better way. We can't just allow large 
corporations to just terminate pension plans. The pension plan is our 
deferred wages traded from our current wage to provide a retirement in 
the future, a legal contract. Now it is not worth the paper it was 
written on.
  ``I feel I am a perfect example of how Mr. Bush's Social Security 
plan will fail. As the employees of United continue to give and give 
and give, our top management make more and more. Something isn't 
right.''
  If I could go on, I have a couple more. This is what Paula Carlson 
from Oak Lawn, Illinois, had to say: ``I have been a flight attendant 
for almost 20 years for United Airlines, and if my pension is 
terminated I will be paid as if I terminated my employment at 47, even 
if I continue to work and retire from United Airlines when I am 62. My 
retirement plans were for the full pension I was promised, a 401(k) and 
Social Security. Now I will have to live off of $400 monthly 
approximately from my pension, instead of $2,800 monthly.

[[Page 11961]]

  ``I can hardly contribute to my 401(k) due to pay cuts at United. I 
will be at poverty level and may have to be a burden on my son, who is 
only 16, but hopes will make a decent enough living to help me out.
  ``We have been deceived our whole lives about hard work paying off. 
The only ones paid off are the CEO and the board of directors. They 
come in with their guaranteed payoff and the company they have been 
hired to build or maintain can collapse right from under them, while 
the workers who built the companies lose everything and become a burden 
on their children and our society. What has happened to our country?''
  Let me read one more. This is a good one. The following is Joseph 
Gillick's story. He is a flight attendant based out of Chicago, lives 
in Espyville, Pennsylvania:
  ``If you have traveled frequently on United Airlines during the last 
13 years, chances are you have become familiar with my voice and face. 
I have worked as a flight attendant for United Airlines for 29-plus 
years. My name is Joseph Gillick, I am based in Chicago Illinois, and I 
am the safety video spokesperson seen on United flights worldwide.
  ``I submit United senior executive's bankruptcy strategy under the 
leadership of CEO Glenn Tilton is an affront to basic human values, 
financially wrong and unquestionably unpatriotic.
  ``If senior executives are successful in dumping pension obligations, 
forcing the PBGC to take responsibility, I will immediately lose 50 
percent of my meager $1,100-a-month pension benefit. I am presently the 
primary caretaker of my 89-year-old mother. With ever-increasing health 
care and home care expense, my mother and myself are just two out of 
countless thousands of citizens who will be unquestionably harmed and 
placed in dire financial circumstances.
  ``No question United is operating under severe financial 
circumstances. Difficult decisions must be made. Corporate change must 
occur. Yet at the end of the day, will we be able to say all possible 
solutions were explored before allowing United executives to dump 
employee pension responsibilities?''
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I 
think the gentlewoman has raised a number of people who wrote her from 
Illinois, the retirees and employees of United raised this point, that 
it was actually the President that said what is good for the crew is 
good for the captain.
  What we see here clearly is what so many of these employees 
recognize, and what we have watched now is company after company that 
terminates these employee pension plans, that go into bankruptcy, at 
the end of the day the company goes on, less these liabilities, and the 
very people who administered the company into the bankruptcy, their 
pensions in many cases were guaranteed, they were moved outside of 
bankruptcy, they were put into trusts, or as the company is 
reorganized, they then go back to issuing stock options for themselves, 
issuing bonuses, as if nothing happened.
  Yet what we see here is tens of thousands of United employees who are 
left in the dust bin. Many of these people cannot go back to work. They 
cannot go back and accumulate a retirement nest egg again, and I think 
it is something we see run through all of our letters. I want to thank 
the gentlewoman for raising that point.
  Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman will yield further, let 
me say one thing about that. It is not as if they are saying we want 
things to be exactly as we were promised when we came in. These 
employees have given up about $3 billion in benefits already.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Reclaiming my time, time and again 
these employees have given back on retirement, have given back on 
wages, have given back on hours to keep this airline flying; and yet at 
the end of the day, the executives walk out to the new company and the 
employees are stuck without their retirement, without their health care 
benefit.
  I now recognize my colleague, the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. 
Tierney), who was part of our e-hearing, the first-ever Congress e-
hearing to provide this kind of access to ordinary Americans who are 
suffering the disaster, the personal disaster of the larger disaster of 
the United Airlines decision to go into bankruptcy and get rid of these 
pensions and health care plans.
  Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the ranking member, the 
gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller), and thank the 
gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) as well for your leadership 
on this issue, and for convening this e-hearing and also taking this 
time on the floor tonight.
  I think it is imperative to read as many of these e-mails as possible 
into the Record and express the voice of so many people that earned 
their pensions, that worked their long work lives and took as a form of 
deferred compensation the rights to these pension benefits. They 
sacrificed pay raises and sacrificed other benefits in exchange for 
what they thought was a promise from the company that they were going 
to get this pension when they retired.
  One UAL person wrote in and said, ``I joined UAL with stars in my 
eyes believing the promise of opportunity, a secure benefit package and 
the enthusiasm of being part of something great.''
  Well, it really has not been something great for them. As the 
gentleman mentioned, in every way the employees tried to work it out 
with the company. I am so used, as the gentleman is, from hearing 
executives tell us, oh, the employees will not cooperate, the employees 
and their high costs are driving this company down.
  Well, it was the employees at UAL that actually went into an ESOP 
program, an employee stock option program, that turned out to be near 
worthless for them in the long run. Some lost hundreds of thousands of 
dollars trying to help the company out. They underwent cuts in pay, 
they forewent benefits, and all of this to find the company 
surreptitiously sneaks into bankruptcy for 2\1/2\ years and then slides 
their benefits into bankruptcy and they end up going into the Pension 
Benefit Guarantee Corporation and getting about 30 to 40 percent of the 
benefits, if they are lucky.
  These letters, these e-mails, are written about feelings of betrayal, 
absolute feelings of betrayal. They say it is a sign of what they think 
is happening to the moral fiber of this country. They wonder on a 
philosophical level how this is going to impact the values that they 
have been brought up with and they have been instilling in their 
children.
  Jacob Acker said not too long ago that in 1938 FDR talked about the 
last great unconquered frontier of America was the frontier of 
uncertainty and insecurity. And then as a country we set out to do 
something about it. We worked with corporations, with employee groups, 
we worked with private groups and our government and we put in Social 
Security, we put in pensions, we put in health care benefits, the 
minimum wage, the GI Bill. We put in structures and security so people 
in this country would no longer feel that they were confronting that 
frontier of insecurity and uncertainty.
  But here we are in 2005, we find out executives and management of a 
company can turn it around and take their promises and turn them into 
dust and take their employees and put them into sheer desperation, so 
that again in 2005 we are again facing a frontier of uncertainty and 
insecurity. And it is incumbent on this Congress to finally act.
  I say to the gentleman from California (Mr. George Miller), as 
ranking member of this Committee on Education and Workforce, and the 
members on the minority side who have been banging away for some time 
now saying this is an impending problem that has to be addressed, where 
is Congress on this matter? Where is the White House on this matter? 
They are dealing with issues the American public does not even care 
about. You look at what has happened so far this year on the agenda of 
this Congress and the

[[Page 11962]]

White House. It is not about jobs, it is not about health care, it is 
not about education for people's children, and it is not about pension 
protection and retirement.
  The closest the President comes is trying to privatize Social 
Security, which would put these people in further jeopardy. And that is 
what I hear often from the people at United. Boy, if they ever realized 
about the guaranteed benefit of Social Security being important, they 
now realize it, because what they thought was a benefit due them from 
their employment has gone out the window.
  As I said, these stories are touching. But they are more than 
touching; they are tragic. For many of the people here, it is too late 
to start over. I think in one of the letters that either the gentleman 
or the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) read, they talked 
about dedicating their life to the company for a promise and now being 
faced with decisions that they never thought they would have to face 
and making choices they never thought they would have to make.
  What about their health care? Are they going to be able to afford it 
for themselves, for their loved ones, particularly for their children? 
There are 120,000 employees that face these deep benefit cuts. It is 
going to make a serious impact, and many of them are concerned for 
themselves, but, even more so, for what happens if other companies 
follow in the footsteps of United.
  What happens if this Congress under Republican leadership continues 
to fail to act to shore up these defined benefit pensions, to shore up 
the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation system so that it takes care 
of people, to make sure that every corporation does not decide to slide 
into bankruptcy and dump its responsibilities onto the PBGC and to hurt 
their employees and leave them no recourse. We need to act.
  Let me read one letter, if I can, from my district, Kevin P. Creighan 
and Cathy J. Hampton from Lynn, Massachusetts. They e-mailed in: ``We 
know that approximately 120,000 current and former employees will 
suffer if United Airlines is allowed to hand its pensions over to the 
PBGC. I will address the concerns of two of those current employees, my 
wife Cathy and myself, as examples of the upcoming devastation.
  ``Cathy has been with United for 27 years, and I have been there for 
29, a combined 56 years of working hard, earning a living, and all 
along expecting a pension in 7 years' time when we planned to retire. 
At our retirement, between us we expected to have 70 years of loyal 
service to our employer, single employer; and we each expected to 
receive monthly pension checks of about $2,500 per month.
  ``If United is allowed to break its promise to pay our pensions, our 
actuaries tell us we would each probably receive less than $1,000 per 
month. We are already told that we could work an additional 15 years 
and we might get closer to our current pension, but that is predicated 
upon a very strong stock market and successful investments. Work 15 
more years, and only to get closer to something else.
  ``Our retirement income would drop by 60 percent unless we choose to 
work beyond 70 years of age. This is not the American way. We thank you 
for considering how dreadful this situation is, not only for the two of 
us, but for our 120,000 colleagues who have worked every bit as hard.''
  We have letter after letter from Massachusetts residents and people 
in my district that show, exactly as the gentleman's have, this is a 
tragic failure of Congress to respond and a tragic action by a 
corporation that should know better and should have acted differently.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, I 
thank the gentleman. Again, he has raised an important point. These 
employees of United Airlines, these employees for the last several 
years have worked with this company to give back part of their 
retirement, give back part of their health care, give back part of 
their wages, give back part of their hours, all the rest of it. They 
were struggling to stay in the middle class. These are good, middle-
class jobs. They were struggling to stay in those jobs, to stay in the 
middle class with the assurance of that retirement.
  Very often people think, well, the retirement is something you get at 
the end of your employment. The fact of the matter is, every hour of 
pay you have negotiated, you give something for retirement. You earn it 
on an hourly basis. Your employer decides how much they want to pay you 
and they figure in your benefits and all of the rest of it. It is a 
package.
  Now, of course, here at the end, people after 30, 40 years, finding 
out that they have lost a huge percentage of their retirement and have 
no ability to replace it.
  Mr. TIERNEY. If the gentleman will yield further, one of the things 
not true is most of these executives have not worked anywhere near the 
number of years that these employees have worked for that company. Many 
of them come on as directors of the board or in high-level positions 
for a much shorter period of time, qualify for some pretty extravagant 
pension rights of their own, solidify them by putting them in a trust 
that cannot be touched in a bankruptcy proceeding, and go out merrily 
into the sunset having destroyed a company, or at least their 
employees' chances to have a decent, dignified retirement.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, reclaiming my time, 
over the last several years, the gentleman is quite correct, we have 
seen CEOs and other corporate officers who are retiring, and they have 
worked for the company for 3 years and they are given a retirement 
package as if they worked at that company for 23 years, if they worked 
at that company for 15 years. So they just make up the retirement 
package for the CEOs and they go on their way.
  The CEOs that ran United into the ground here, that have destroyed 
this company, they get severance packages, they get golden parachutes, 
they go on their way. The employees who are left struggling trying to 
rebuild this airline to try to keep it competitive, they are the ones 
that take the slicing and the dicing of the loss of the pensions, the 
loss of the health care, the loss of the retirement.
  Mr. TIERNEY. If the gentleman will yield further, compare that to 
John Lagadinos from Billerica, Massachusetts. He is a retired aircraft 
mechanic with 42 years of service with United Airlines, 35 years were 
spent working the nightshift, afternoons, midnights, working most 
weekends, Saturdays, Sundays and holidays, with, as he says, no social 
life to speak of.
  He says, ``We also worked in rain, sleet and cold, heat and cold. The 
executives didn't. So cold in the winter our hands would be cracked and 
bleeding from working on the aircraft outside.
  ``Contractually our monthly medical insurance for my wife and I was 
$22 per month pre-65 years of age and $24 per month post-65.

                              {time}  2100

  But, recently, that has been increased to $214 per month, with a 
decrease in coverage and an increase in out-of-pocket cost. So it is 
not bad enough that their pension rights are being shaved down to less 
than 15 percent but that they are heaped on with additional medical 
expenses, another promise that was made to them that is not being kept 
by corporations, as more and more companies are starting to default on 
their retirement health benefits as well. So it is a double whammy.
  The prescription drug costs have increased from the $5 generic, $10 
name brand to $19 generic, $51 name brand. His wife and he use four 
name brand drugs costing $204, that used to cost them $40.
  Then he talks about what the gentleman from California (Mr. George 
Miller) and the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) talked about 
earlier. These same employees went into an employee stock option plan 
at the request of the company to try to save the company. They were not 
allowed to contribute to the 401(k) that they paid on their own. The 
company never contributed to the 401(k). In lieu of wages, they were 
given useless stocks and ended up selling on the employees for about a 
dollar a share. For

[[Page 11963]]

this individual, it was costing about $160,000, which he lost.
  He says, with all of these losses and losing a portion of our 
pension, too, I do not know how we will make it. They do not want this 
to become a precedent for other companies. Thank you for your concern 
and action.
  Concern is something that we have here. Action is what this Congress 
needs to do and which it has not been doing.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman 
very much for participating in this.
  I would like, before I recognize the gentleman from New York (Mr. 
Owens), to read one last letter that we have here tonight, and I will 
read others in the coming days, from Ann Clegg of San Francisco, 
California:
  ``I retired as a flight attendant from United Airlines in 2002 after 
37 years of service. I was promised a pension and quit at age 58 after 
carefully considering the money I would live on, and my pension was a 
big part of that. Now, with the threat of the reduction of my pension, 
obviously, my standard of living will be greatly reduced. I ask you, if 
there is anything good, right, and honest in this country, why is this 
happening? I worked and believed a promise that should be upheld by my 
company and the government. I would not have retired early had I known 
that United Airlines would be allowed to renege on its promise. This is 
wrong and shameful. Please help.''
  The point is, again, these people upheld their end of the promise. 
The promise was between the employees and the company, the handshake 
was between the employees and the company, and that is why these people 
are so devastated when the company made the decision to go into 
bankruptcy and to discharge these pension obligations and their health 
care.
  I know the gentlewoman from Illinois (Ms. Schakowsky) and I knew the 
gentleman from New York (Mr. Owens) and I know the gentleman from 
Massachusetts (Mr. Tierney) have read these letters.
  So very often, these very same families that are losing their 
retirement income have serious health problems within their families, 
either their children, their spouse, their parents, who they are taking 
care of. Their own retirement benefits and their health care benefits 
for their family were very important to them, and now they are saddled 
with increasing health care costs, with a diminished health care plan, 
if any at all, and, obviously, a greatly diminished pension. So these 
people are really suffering a double hit by the actions of United.
  We have written to our committee, the Committee on Education and the 
Workforce, for several years now, asking them to have hearings, asking 
them to look at this problem, asking them to look into the PBGC. Only 
today, as the Senate held its hearings, did people start talking about 
the loopholes.
  We have known about those loopholes on the committee for years, to 
bring to everyone's attention how the pension plan was gamed, how the 
real figures are not disclosed to the employees, not disclosed to the 
investors, not disclosed to the public, the conditions of these pension 
plans. Only when it is too late are those disclosures made as the 
company enters into bankruptcy and there is very little the employees 
can do about that.
  It is absolutely a scandal what has taken place here and the inaction 
of this Congress. Only now do we start to see them take action. But no 
inquiry before, no discussion of the problem, and even as we start to 
take this action we will not have the full information before us about 
the extent of this problem, and not just United Airlines but in major 
corporations all across the country.
  I yield to the gentleman from Massachusetts.
  Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Speaker, I do not have to remind the gentleman from 
California about his efforts to have the committee go to the 
administration and get that information about where does the rest of 
the employment situation lie, where are the rest of these pensions in 
terms of their viability. The fact of the matter is we have been unable 
to get that information until very recently. We got some of it.
  But what is the problem with disclosing that to the American public? 
What is the problem with the Congress knowing the full extent and the 
public knowing the full extent, how many companies are in this 
precarious situation? That, if anything, would force Congress hopefully 
to get up and act.
  Something that we have known, something that the gentleman has led 
the way in writing to the committee, speaking to the committee and the 
administration on this issue and now trying to get the information that 
will compel them to act on it. Because it is devastating to learn just 
how many companies are in a situation that are near default or 
problematic.
  Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California. Mr. Speaker, I just recently wrote 
to the chairman of the committee and, after reviewing that information 
that was given to us by the PBGC, I asked him, I think it is very 
important that the committee go ahead and have a vote and make this 
information public. Because, obviously, what we have seen is there is a 
huge disparity between what the public has been told of the pension 
problems of these companies and what the PBGC has been told in secret, 
out of the public eye, not for disclosure, what the real situation of 
these pension plans are.
  So that we have millions of Americans who believe the conditions of 
their company's pension plan is one thing, and the company knows it is 
another. In many cases, as we wrote to the chairman and said, the 
difference is hundreds of millions of dollars and, in some cases, 
billions of dollars in terms of those liabilities. I think that those 
employees, when they see how this can happen with the United case, 
those employees are entitled to that information.
  Interestingly enough, the President of the United States asked 4 
years ago that this information be made public, but the companies are 
lobbying hard so it will not be made public, and, so far, the committee 
has not responded to our letter. But certainly before we begin writing 
a new pension bill we ought to have this information laid out on the 
public record so people can comment on it to see whether or not the 
bill that we are considering, the ideas that the President has will 
make this worse or make it better. I thank the gentleman for raising 
that point.
  I would like at this time to recognize another member of the 
Committee on Education and the Workforce, a member of long standing of 
the Committee on Education and the Workforce who, in every session of 
this Congress, has taken on the responsibilities of this committee to 
look at these issues that confront working families in the workplace, 
in their health care, in their daily lives in the workplaces of 
America, and that is the gentleman from New York (Mr. Owens).
  Mr. Speaker, I am going to yield the balance of our time to the 
gentleman from New York (Mr. Owens) for the purposes of this discussion 
and to read the communications from individuals from New York.
  Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for joining us tonight.

                          ____________________