[Congressional Record (Bound Edition), Volume 150 (2004), Part 19]
[Senate]
[Pages 25318-25322]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov]




                    BILL CLINTON--A PLACE IN HISTORY

  Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, many of us had the opportunity to be in 
Little Rock, AR, yesterday for the opening of former President Bill 
Clinton's Presidential Library. It was an extraordinary and very moving 
ceremony, and all of us who were there will always remember it.
  That evening, to conclude such an extraordinary day, ABC News 
broadcast a special edition of its popular television program, 
``Primetime Live,'' an hour-long interview of President Clinton by 
Peter Jennings about the President's new library, his years in office, 
and his plans for the future.
  I believe all my colleagues will be interested in the interview, and 
I ask unanimous consent that a transcript may be printed in the Record.
  There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in 
the Record, as follows:

    Primetime Live--A Place in History, ABC News, November 18, 2004

       PETER JENNINGS: Tonight, America's 42nd president. His 
     library, his legacy and his future. ``A Place in History.''
       Hello, everyone. I'm Peter Jennings. And this is the very 
     modern edge of Bill Clinton's Presidential Library, on the 
     banks of the Arkansas River. We are here this week for a 
     first tour of the library. And a conversation with Mr. 
     Clinton about his presidency and about his future. The 
     building is, well, appropriately dramatic, for a man whose 
     presidency was dramatic and divisive, and full of 
     accomplishment.
       CHELSEA CLINTON, DAUGHTER: I hereby present to you and the 
     American people, the keys to the William Jefferson Clinton 
     Foundation Center and Library. Thank you.
       PETER JENNINGS: President Clinton calls this place on the 
     banks of the Arkansas River, a bridge to the 21st century. It 
     is the largest and most expensive Presidential library. This 
     week, Little Rock is crowded with people who are attracted by 
     the Clinton magic.
       LOCAL RESIDENT, FEMALE: He's a uniter. And I just love him.
       LOCAL RESIDENT, MALE: He's a credit to Arkansas, as well as 
     a credit to the nation.
       PETER JENNINGS: With all the Democrats there, it has the 
     slight feel of a political convention. The people there from 
     Washington and Hollywood, and Arkansas, of course. In a 
     Little Rock concert hall, one of the President's friends 
     celebrates.
       ARETHA FRANKLIN, SINGER: He seems to have the goodwill and 
     interest of all the people.
       PETER JENNINGS: His recent heart surgery notwithstanding, 
     Mr. Clinton had several events to go to in the last few days. 
     The swearing in of public service volunteers at Little Rock 
     Central High School. And today, the dedication.
       EMCEE, MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the 
     United States, former Presidents William Jefferson Clinton, 
     Jimmy Carter, and George Walker Herbert Bush.
       FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER: Bill Clinton brought 
     insight, wisdom and determination to bear on the issues that 
     he addressed.
       FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH: Through his 
     indefatigable determination, not only did he lift himself and 
     his family up, he also went on to touch the lives of

[[Page 25319]]

     millions of people around the world, as President of the 
     United States, giving them hope.
       PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: The William J. Clinton 
     Presidential Library is a gift to the future by a man who 
     always believed in the future. And today, we thank him for 
     loving and serving America.
       PETER JENNINGS: Bill Clinton has been planning his 
     Presidential library ever since he was in the White House. At 
     the beginning of September, for a few days before his heart 
     surgery, well, he might have missed the opening.
       Is it true that if the prospect of death is suddenly more 
     apparent, that your attitude towards life changes?
       FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: I think it's changed mine. 
     But not in the way it does some people. Apparently most 
     people have a period of depression. Perhaps because it's the 
     first time they've ever confronted their own mortality. But 
     since my father died before I was born, and I've been living 
     with death all my life, I have never viewed it with the 
     morbid fear some people do. On the other hand, if you dodge a 
     bullet like I did--and, you know, I was about to leave on a 
     21-day, 6-nation tour of Asia, to help my foundation and 
     promote my book. I think I'd probably have had a heart 
     attack. Might well have died. When that happens, you have to 
     ask yourself, ``Well, you got a little extra time here. What 
     are you going to do with it?'' And so, today, when I take 
     these hourly walks that are part of my recovery, you know, 
     when I walk past 40 trees, I can probably tell you what color 
     30 of them were. You know, I find birds that I used to miss. 
     I'm more alive to just the pace of daily life than I used to 
     be. And I'm very grateful for things that are easy to take 
     for granted.
       PETER JENNINGS: First of all, has it turned out how you 
     wanted it to turn out?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. By and large, it has.
       PETER JENNINGS: You clearly love it.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I do. You know, I worked really 
     hard on this. I literally approved every word.
       PETER JENNINGS: Down the center of the library are eight 
     dramatic panels, each one a time line for a year of his 
     presidency. And on the back, interactive computer screens 
     that allow visitors to call up videos of important moments, 
     documents on policy, even the President's schedule, for every 
     day of his eight years in office. On the outer walls, 18 
     separate alcoves. Each one devoted to a different theme that 
     defined his presidency. There is a huge amount of 
     interactivity.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Huge. A lot of it. Thousands and 
     thousands of things that people can pull up. But here, this 
     is how we dealt with the major religious, racial, ethnic 
     conflicts of our time. This is Northern Ireland.
       PETER JENNINGS: Middle East.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: This is the Middle East and what 
     happened there. There're some artifacts there.
       PETER JENNINGS: Former Yugoslavia.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: These are the Balkans. Bosnia and 
     Kosovo. And a letter to a person--I know how much you cared 
     about this. That's a letter I got from--you remember her? The 
     young girl that wrote the book.
       PETER JENNINGS: I do. These are all leaders with whom you 
     worked.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: That's right.
       PETER JENNINGS: Who was the toughest to negotiate with?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, I don't know. All these guys 
     were my friends, you know.
       PETER JENNINGS: Well, what does that mean, they were your 
     friends?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I mean, they were my 
     friends. I liked them personally. And I felt that we were 
     always working for the same ends, even when we disagreed.
       PETER JENNINGS: What was it like? For example, Boris 
     Yeltsin didn't speak English.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: No.
       PETER JENNINGS: And did you simply become accustomed after 
     a while to having that third voice, the interpreter between 
     you?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: We had a wonderful interpreter, 
     who was there most of the time. An American. And I got to 
     know his Russian interpreter. And they became like a member 
     of our relationship. It's funny. You just learn to deal with 
     it. Yeltsin, I thought, had extraordinary strengths. 
     Everybody knows he had some weaknesses. But he was completely 
     committed to democracy. Completely against Communism. And 
     completely committed to having positive relationships with 
     the West.
       PETER JENNINGS: Somebody told me the other day, sir--I was 
     in Ramallah for Arafat's funeral. This is a slightly 
     embarrassing question, perhaps. Somebody told me that when 
     you and he and Barak were meeting in those final days, he'd 
     asked you that if things didn't go well, that you not blame 
     him publicly.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: At Camp David in June, he asked 
     me that. And I said I won't, because we still have six months 
     to go. Let me tell you what happened. The reason that I put 
     in so much effort, and the reason I got so angry about this, 
     because we were also at the same time trying to end North 
     Korea's missile program, is that I personally asked Arafat 
     again, six weeks before I left office. I said, now, you just 
     tell me, I'm going to put a deal out here. It's going to be 
     really hard for Israel. And if you accept it, then we can say 
     that's the basis of a peace that we'll either finish by the 
     time I leave, or right after. I said, do you intend to get a 
     deal before I leave office? I said, `cause otherwise, you 
     gotta let me go to North Korea and Asia. `Cause I only have 
     six weeks left and I can't do both. It was the only time he 
     ever cried in my presence. He said, you have to do it. He 
     said, if we don't make peace now, after all the trouble that 
     you've taken and all the things we've done together, it'll be 
     another five years and countless deaths before we make peace. 
     So, I took him at his word. I stayed. I got the deal. I think 
     he intended to do it. But for whatever reason, he didn't.
       PETER JENNINGS: Nelson Mandela.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: He's wonderful. And you know, his 
     image is as the world's saint. The truth is, he's a saintly 
     man but he's also a very tough and shrewd politician. And a 
     very, very loyal friend. He is a ferociously loyal friend. 
     And he was fabulous to me the whole time I was there. And he 
     was a great President. But these are just people from around 
     the world that I had good relationships with, that I think 
     are fascinating and that I admired. Of course, Rabin and 
     Hussein I just love. I loved Rabin as much as I ever loved 
     another man. I had an unusual relationship with him. And I 
     never met anybody like him.
       PETER JENNINGS: Can I ask you a couple questions about 
     Iraq? You said at one point, I'm not precisely sure when, 
     that Iraq will do pretty well when Saddam Hussein is gone. 
     Want to revise that at all?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I think that even I 
     underestimated the level of opposition, at least given the 
     troop strength we had there. You know, my position on the 
     Iraq war was different from almost everybody else's that I've 
     heard talking. And I supported giving the President the 
     authority to take action against Saddam Hussein, if he did 
     not cooperate with the UN inspectors or if he was found to 
     have had weapons of mass destruction he wouldn't give up. I 
     did believe that the Administration made a mistake going to 
     war when they did. And that's what alienated the world. And 
     most Americans still haven't focused on this.
       PETER JENNINGS: Iraq does not look good at the moment. Do 
     you think the United States could lose there?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, I suppose we could. But I 
     don't think we will. I don't think we will. I think that the 
     President's re-election gives him an opportunity, first of 
     all, to ask for and get more help from other countries. 
     Senator Kerry made a suggestion, in the campaign, that I 
     think he should consider. He should consider going to the 
     Congress and asking for the authority and the budget to 
     increase the size of the Army, even if we have to pay a 
     little more to recruit them. And between getting more help 
     and sending more troops, to try to shore up more places. I 
     think, ironically, we'll be able to get our troops out 
     quicker if, in the short run, we have more there.
       PETER JENNINGS: Is there some code among ex-Presidents, 
     about what you say about the current President, as an ex or 
     former President? Are you constrained about what you can say?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I think there has been. But 
     I think there are reasons for that. We've all made our own 
     mistakes and then we've all been told that we were finished 
     and full of mistakes when we weren't. So, I think we're just 
     a little reluctant to do that. You know, my job is not the 
     same thing as yours, for example. Your job is to question 
     what Presidents do, and whether it will work. Former 
     Presidents, our job, I think, is to try to make America and 
     the world a better place.
       PETER JENNINGS: Walking through this two-story hall, it is 
     clear, as in all Presidential libraries, that this is the 
     life and times of the President, presented as he most wants 
     to be remembered. In his words and on his terms.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: This is about the new threats, 
     21st century threats. So, this is what we did on weapons of 
     mass destruction, and the work we did around the world to try 
     to secure the stocks of weapons of mass destruction. And this 
     is what we did on nonproliferation, modernizing the military 
     and getting new weapons there. And this is a section on 
     terror.
       PETER JENNINGS: Why did you put the ten most-wanted poster 
     in here of Bin Laden? You've been taking flak on bin Laden.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yeah, but not from anybody who 
     knows the facts. I mean, to be fair, most of it was highly 
     political. If you look at the 9/11 Commission's report about 
     what we did and how we prepared for, we had 9/11-style 
     threats for the millennium. And the extent of preparations 
     and the work we did. The number of terrorists we brought to 
     justice. The 20 al Qaeda cells we broke up. If you look at 
     all that and the fact that we apparently came closer to 
     getting Bin Laden than anybody has since, even though they 
     have a lot more options, military options that we had. I wish 
     that I had gotten him.
       PETER JENNINGS: There are stories around, as you know, that 
     the Sudan offered

[[Page 25320]]

     him to you, not once, not twice, but three times. Any truth 
     to that?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: That's not true. It's not true, 
     and I've done everything I could to run that down. It is 
     simply not true. They were always playing a double-game, the 
     Sudanese. The guy running Sudan was in business with Bin 
     Laden. And we did try to get him out of there because, at the 
     time, Sudan was worse than Afghanistan as a harbor for 
     terrorists. But they never offered him to us. At least I 
     can't find it in any document, talking to any person. The 
     first time I heard that, I went to an extraordinary amount of 
     trouble to find out if it was true, and I urged the 9/11 
     Commission to try to find out if it was true. I just don't 
     believe it's true.
       PETER JENNINGS: This library has been a labor of love for 
     President Clinton. He was involved in every detail. Hours 
     before it opened, he was still telling the architect, James 
     Polshek, and the designers, a little corrections he wanted 
     made here and there.
       Did you fuss a lot?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: A lot.
       PETER JENNINGS: I mean, when it was over, did they think 
     you'd been a pain in the neck?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I think so. They now say I was a 
     perfect client. But Polshek said I was the only guy he ever 
     had who would go away for three or four months and come back, 
     and if he changed one line on the drawing, I would know. And 
     I said, well, you know, I care about this. I want it to work.
       PETER JENNINGS: Why did you want this here, in this 
     particular place, on this bank of the river?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, first of all, I wanted it 
     to come home to Arkansas because these people made me 
     President. And I wanted it here. I wanted it to be in the 
     heartland, in the middle of the country, where people don't 
     have access to things like this, so they could learn about 
     their government, how it works, what the decisions were. And 
     I wanted it on this river because I love this river. It was a 
     big part of my childhood. I first swam in this river, 40 
     years ago or more.
       PETER JENNINGS: You're saying that your soul is still in 
     Arkansas, even though you live in New York?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, a lot of me is still here 
     and always will be. And I will come home a lot. I'll be here 
     a lot.
       PETER JENNINGS: There is an apartment and an office for him 
     on the top floor. This is the largest of all 12 Presidential 
     libraries. And at $165 million, certainly the most expensive. 
     Mr. Clinton has visited many of the other libraries. His 
     architects have studied them all.
       JAMES POLSHEK, CLINTON LIBRARY ARCHITECT: Each Presidential 
     library takes on certain characteristics of the President. So 
     that Johnson's is very imperial. Kennedy's is elegant. 
     Reagan's is folksy. You know, and Bush gets the word hokey. 
     Clinton's is very progressive, very forward-looking.
       PETER JENNINGS: The President refers to the architecture 
     here as like a bridge to the 21st century. Which was, you'll 
     remember, his theme in office. Like other libraries, it has 
     millions of documents available to historians and thousands 
     of presidential gifts and other mementoes for us all to see. 
     Every library seems to have some sports equipment. And 
     invariably there are Presidential vehicles. Mr. Clinton has a 
     Presidential limo right inside the front door. John F. 
     Kennedy's library has his sailboat. George Bush's library has 
     a fighter bomber, similar to the one he flew in World War II. 
     The Reagan library has the Boeing 707 Mr. Reagan used as Air 
     Force One. Presidents love it, of course, when people visit. 
     President Johnson had a novel way of suggesting to football 
     fans at the nearby University of Texas that they come on 
     over.
       MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Johnson had 
     ordained that an announcement be made at half time saying, 
     anybody who wants to use the bathroom or get some cool water 
     can get it at the Johnson Library across the street. 
     Thousands of people flowed through the front doors. And by 
     the end of 1971, the Johnson Library was just about the best-
     attended presidential library in the United States.
       PETER JENNINGS: Presidents save a vast amount of material. 
     Right down to the White House menus. Who knows what will turn 
     out to be significant?
       MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: Only last year in the Truman Library, 
     someone came across what looks like sort of a junky desk 
     diary. They found a number of pages in which Harry Truman had 
     recorded in his own hand diary entries day by day in 1947. 
     Had that thing been thrown out, we would have lost it.
       PETER JENNINGS: The Clinton Library ultimately houses 630 
     tons of Mr. Clinton's past. Mr. Clinton is so enthusiastic 
     about his library, we suspect he will be giving tours. 
     President Truman, who spent six days a week sometimes at his 
     library, often gave tours.
       JAMES POLSHEK: That would surprise me if he didn't. You 
     know, he loves to give tours. And he would give tours in the 
     White House frequently to anybody who would come along.
       PETER JENNINGS: As soon as the President arrived, we 
     started off in his favorite room.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: This is an exact replica of the 
     Oval Office, with replicas of the paintings I had there, the 
     sculpture I had there. And these are actually books I had in 
     the Oval Office.
       PETER JENNINGS: I heard that yesterday you were in here 
     fiddling with the desk.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. Well, I was trying to make 
     sure these are all my things. These are Robert Berke's 
     sculptures that he gave me of Harry Truman and FDR.
       PETER JENNINGS: I got the feeling that at this pace our 
     tour might have lasted for several weeks. Obvious question 
     here is, how nostalgic are you?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, it makes me happy being in 
     here. That's a globe that Hillary and Chelsea gave me. That 
     pot was given to me by King Hussein.
       PETER JENNINGS: That staff?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: It's a Moroccan Berber stick, 
     given to me by Hillary.
       PETER JENNINGS: It was time to move on.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Here are some of the interesting 
     things . . .
       PETER JENNINGS: That people gave you?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. This is Lance Armstrong's 
     bike. He gave me one of his speed bikes, as you see, and a 
     jersey and a helmet after he won the Tour de France.
       This guy makes cowboy boots for all the Presidents.
       PETER JENNINGS: Are some of the presents that a President 
     gets really tacky?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. Some are. We got a few of 
     them up here that are of some question. There's kind of a 
     little cartoon-like thing. There's a great picture of Hillary 
     and me as James and Dolly Madison.
       PETER JENNINGS: Not very flattering, sir.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: No. As I said, I didn't look very 
     good in those tights. There's my dog, Buddy. These are some 
     of my saxophones. I had saxophones that I was given from 
     Germany, from France, from China, from Japan. You see, here's 
     some of the compelling art here we got.
       PETER JENNINGS: As we said, Presidents hold on to 
     everything.
       This Presidential library is a revealing testament, both to 
     your style and your character. What are some of the 
     misconceptions you're trying to clarify?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, the biggest one I think, is 
     kind of much bigger than me. And that is, I think politics. 
     There's more and more of an attempt to turn every political 
     race into an identity race. You know, do you identify with 
     this candidate or that? Does he share your values? Is he on 
     your team or on the other team? What I wanted to show people 
     here is that leaders make choices. And those choices, if 
     implemented as policies, have consequences, positive or 
     negative. They're people, and they also make mistakes, and I 
     made my fair share of them. But I also believe that no one 
     could fairly come into this library and read this stuff and 
     look at these exhibits and hear these other people talk about 
     the work they did and the feelings they had, people around 
     the world and people here at home, without believing that 
     this matters a lot. That these choices matter. People are 
     affected in ways that are quite profound by the decisions 
     that our leaders make.
       PETER JENNINGS: Now in the entire library, this is--I'm not 
     sure I'm using the right word. But this is the most militant 
     alcove.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: You think it is?
       PETER JENNINGS: I do. I do. This is about your struggle 
     with the Republicans and others. Why don't you just tell us 
     why you did this?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: What I'm trying to show here is 
     this whole, long litany of things, where the ideological 
     fights, in my opinion, went too far. Spending $70 million on 
     Whitewater, which was a land deal I lost money on, that no 
     one disputed. One of the great political con jobs in the 
     history of the American Republic that they could get that 
     much money spent. And then, we go to the impeachment. We had 
     800 Constitutional scholars who said there was no basis for 
     impeachment. Gingrich, privately, acknowledged they shouldn't 
     impeach me. They did it because they wanted to put a black 
     mark on me in history.
       PETER JENNINGS: Do you think they did put a black mark on 
     your presidency that is indelible?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: No. I mean, it's there. But I 
     think the more time goes on, the more people will see it for 
     exactly what it was. Doesn't mean I didn't make a terrible 
     personal mistake. But I certainly paid for that. But what 
     they did was legally and constitutionally wrong, and it was 
     done for political reasons. The overwhelming majority of 
     Republican and Democratic legal and Constitutional scholars 
     agree. And I think in history, it will all come out just 
     fine. I've always believed that. I think things come out in 
     the wash. But, you know, people are always being written and 
     rewritten in history.

[[Page 25321]]

       PETER JENNINGS: You love history, sir. Rate yourself as a 
     President.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I'm not going to do that. 
     Anything I say is wrong. It's a lose/lose deal. My wife's in 
     public service. I'm still trying to do things as a former 
     President. And I have no business being the judge of my own 
     presidency right now.
       PETER JENNINGS: But at the end of the President's term, 
     historians did feel free to judge. Fifty-eight historians, as 
     I think you may know, did this for C-SPAN. And they were all 
     across the political spectrum. And they came out, in general 
     terms, that you were 21st. And on public persuasion and 
     economic management, they gave you a fifth. Pretty good.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Pretty good.
       PETER JENNINGS: They gave you a 41st on moral authority.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: They're wrong about that.
       PETER JENNINGS: After Nixon.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: They're wrong about that. You 
     know why they're wrong about that? They're wrong about it.
       PETER JENNINGS: Why, sir?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Because we had $100 million spent 
     against us on all these inspections. One person in my 
     Administration was convicted of doing something that violated 
     his job responsibilities while we were in the White House. 
     Twenty-nine in the Reagan/Bush years. I'll bet those 
     historians didn't even know that. They have no idea what I 
     was subject to and what a lot of people supported. No other 
     President ever had to endure someone like Ken Starr indicting 
     innocent people because they wouldn't lie, in a systematic 
     way. No one ever had to try to save people from ethnic 
     cleansing in the Balkans and the people in Haiti from a 
     military dictator who was murdering them. And all of the 
     other problems I dealt with, while every day, an entire 
     apparatus was devoted to destroying him. And still, not any 
     example of where I ever disgraced this country, publicly. I 
     made a terrible personal mistake. But I paid for it. Many 
     times over. And in spite of it all, you don't have any 
     example where I ever lied to the American people about my 
     job, where I ever let the American people down. And I had 
     more support from the world, and world leaders and people 
     around the world, when I quit than when I started. And I will 
     go to my grave being at peace about it. And I don't really 
     care what they think.
       PETER JENNINGS: Oh, yes, you do, sir. Excuse me, Mr. 
     President, I can feel it across the room. You feel it very 
     deeply.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: No, I care. You don't want to go 
     here, Peter. You don't want to go here. Not after what you 
     people did and the way you, your network, what you did with 
     Kenneth Starr. The way your people repeated every, little 
     sleazy thing he leaked. No one has any idea what that's like. 
     That's where I failed. You want to know where I failed? I 
     really let it hurt me. I thought I lived in a country where 
     people believed in the Constitution, the rule of law, freedom 
     of speech. You never had to live in a time when people you 
     knew and cared about were being indicted, carted off to jail, 
     bankrupted, ruined, because they were Democrats and because 
     they would not lie. So, I think we showed a lot of moral 
     fiber to stand up to that, to stand up to these constant 
     investigations, to this constant bodyguard of lies, this 
     avalanche that was thrown at all of us. And, yes, I failed 
     once. And I sure paid for it. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry for 
     the American people. And I'm sorry for the embarrassment. But 
     they ought to think about how the rest of the world reacted 
     to it. When I got a standing ovation at the United Nations 
     from the whole world, the American networks were showing my 
     grand jury testimony. Those were decisions you made, not me. 
     I personally believe that the standing ovation I got from the 
     whole world at the United Nations, which was unprecedented 
     for an American President, showed not only support for me, 
     but opposition to the madness that had taken hold of American 
     politics.
       PETER JENNINGS: I think somewhere you say that it was 
     Nelson Mandela who taught you about forgiveness?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yes. He was unbelievable. When I 
     was going through all this, he was really mad. You know, he 
     came to the White House and defended me, and said the 
     Congress should leave me alone. And he gave a blistering 
     defense in the White House, the day before Gingrich gave him 
     the Congressional gold medal.
       NELSON MANDELA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF SOUTH AFRICA: We have 
     often said that our morality does not allow us to desert our 
     friends.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I said, how did you ever let go 
     of your hatred? I said, didn't you hate those people, even 
     when they let you go? He said, ``Briefly, I did. But when I 
     was walking out of my compound for the last time, I said to 
     myself, they've had you 27 years. If you hate them when you 
     get through that door, they will still have you.'' He said, 
     ``I wanted to be free. And so I let it go.'' And then he 
     looked at me, and he grabbed my arm and he said, ``So should 
     you.''
       PETER JENNINGS: This Presidential library is a reminder of 
     how much is behind you. Make you feel old a bit?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, a little bit. But like I 
     said, I'm very optimistic. I'm always thinking about the 
     future. And I've got, you know, this huge agenda with my 
     foundation. I like the life I had but I don't dwell on it. 
     You know, some days I feel like being President is something 
     that just finished yesterday, and it's all just real and 
     alive to me. Some days it seems like 100 years ago. I wanted 
     to give this gift to America, of this library, and tell the 
     story about how we moved into the 21st century, and how it 
     changed the way we lived and related to the rest of the 
     world. But now, I want to focus the rest of my life on what 
     I'm going to do tomorrow and on the work of my foundation and 
     whether we can save a couple million people from dying from 
     AIDS. Whether we can bring economic opportunity to people who 
     aren't part of this global economy. I believe in global 
     trade. But half the people are left out of this system. And 
     that's why there's so much anti-globalization. I believe in 
     racial and religious reconciliation. There's still a lot of 
     people who haven't done it. So, I've got a lot of work to do 
     here.
       PETER JENNINGS: You're 58 years old, and you had two terms. 
     And like a world-class athlete, you're suddenly yanked off 
     the mound. Somebody compared it to pulling Sandy Koufax out 
     of a baseball game.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Yeah. I'm sorry he quit when he 
     did too.
       PETER JENNINGS: Doesn't it feel like that at times?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: It did. But, you know, sometimes 
     it's a blessing. Sometimes it's a blessing to go out on top. 
     You know, I had a, I don't know, 62, 63 percent approval 
     rating. The country was in great shape. There have been many 
     times since then that I wish I had been able to help the 
     American people and the world with problems that come across 
     the President's desk.
       PETER JENNINGS: John Quincy Adams said there was nothing so 
     pathetic in life as an ex-President. That's no longer true, I 
     gather.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: No. And it certainly wasn't true 
     of him. What he meant was, you didn't want to sit around and 
     pontificate about the way things used to be and pine away 
     about not being President. And he didn't spend the rest of 
     his life whining about the fact that he didn't get re- 
     elected. He just went to work. Jimmy Carter did the same 
     thing. He said, okay, what did I care about as President 
     where I can still have an impact? What are the needs of the 
     world? What can I do that won't be done if I don't do it? And 
     he went out there and did it. And, you know, I admire that. I 
     mean, that's what we're all supposed to do. When you've been 
     President, you have received the greatest gift, if you love 
     public service, that anyone could ever get. So, I just feel 
     like you owe it the rest of your life to try to give it back.
       PETER JENNINGS: What do you want to do, most of all?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Just what I'm doing. I want to be 
     a servant. I'm going to obviously, over time, broaden the 
     sphere of my foundation work. We are working with five 
     African countries, virtually the whole Caribbean, India, 
     China. Money shouldn't determine who lives and who dies from 
     AIDS. That's what I'd like to do now because I think there 
     are more lives on the line. And I believe we can do more to 
     have people feel better about America and about the West, by 
     helping keep people alive.
       PETER JENNINGS: Why did you choose AIDS?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: It's the most maddening of all 
     problems. That's why. One in four people will die of AIDS, 
     TB, malaria and infection. AIDS is 100 percent preventable. 
     There's medicine that prevents mother to child transmission 
     for pregnant women. There's medicine that for most healthy 
     people, can turn it from a death sentence into chronic 
     illness. And yet, there's 6.2 million people who desperately 
     need the medicine. Over 40 million people infected. It's 
     madness. So, this is something where I just figure the 
     system's broken. And this is something a former President 
     ought to do. Just go in there and try to put it together. And 
     that's what I'm doing.
       PETER JENNINGS: Bill Clinton is hugely popular in other 
     parts of the world. Often regarded by countries as an 
     honorary citizen and treated like a rock star. He has that 
     particular touch with people in all walks of life. We also 
     talked for a minute or two, about potential new leadership at 
     home.
       PETER JENNINGS: If Senator Clinton runs for the presidency, 
     will you be her chief political adviser?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, I don't know. First, I don't 
     know if she's going to run. I think she wants to run for re-
     election. I have no idea if she's gonna run for president.
       PETER JENNINGS: Really?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: If she did, I would do whatever 
     she asks me to do. You know, I think of all the people I've 
     ever known in public life, she has the best combination of 
     mind and heart, of management skills and compassion. I think 
     she's very tough-minded. She has strengths I don't have. And 
     I think she's learned a lot from me

[[Page 25322]]

     over the years about the things that I was good at that she 
     needed to get better at. But, you know, she's got a mind of 
     her own and she's going to make up her own mind in due 
     course. I have no idea what she's going to do.
       PETER JENNINGS: This has been a very tiring time for the 
     President. After we saw him, everyone wanted to know how was 
     his recovery going.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: As far as I know I'm doing well. 
     I'm walking an hour a day. Up hills, vigorously. I still get 
     tired easily. I haven't recovered my stamina. But everybody 
     who's done this says I will.
       PETER JENNINGS: No interview with President Clinton is 
     complete without a little bit of trivia. You were, after all, 
     the pop culture President. So, I'd be grateful if you'd give 
     me maybe one-liners on the following subjects. The last movie 
     you saw.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: ``Ray.'' It's unbelievable. I 
     knew Ray Charles and I talked to him a couple weeks before he 
     died. I liked him very much. And I love music, as you know. 
     It's a fabulous movie.
       PETER JENNINGS: Your favorite singer now.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I like Tony Bennett. I like Bono. 
     I like Barbara Streisand. I like Judy Collins. I like Sheryl 
     Crow. I love Aretha Franklin.
       PETER JENNINGS: The Presidential perk you most miss.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Working in the Oval Office. It's 
     the best work space on earth.
       PETER JENNINGS: Your favorite food now.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Turkey or vegetarian chili.
       PETER JENNINGS: And the one you most miss?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Steak.
       PETER JENNINGS: The country you'd like to live in, if it 
     were not here.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Probably Ireland.
       PETER JENNINGS: You want to be a mystery writer at some 
     point in your life, I gather?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: I'd like to write one book that 
     was kind of frivolous. A Dylan mystery.
       PETER JENNINGS: So, write the first line of the mystery 
     novel.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: The President's aide was found 
     dead on a street in Southeast Washington from unnatural 
     causes.
       PETER JENNINGS: And the very last one. A living person, not 
     already encountered, who you'd most like to meet?
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Someone I have never met? I would 
     like to meet the new President of Kenya. Because he abolished 
     school fees for poor children and a million extra children 
     showed up at school. I think that that's something that's 
     likely to affect more lives positively than almost anything 
     any other political leader will do this year.
       PETER JENNINGS: Thank you, sir.
       FORMER PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thanks.

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